Any Azrael fans out there?

[BoSoxJay]

He is one of my all time favorite comic characters with one of my favorite costumes and yet he is no longer in the Batverse. IS there any chace Superboy-Prime could have punched Jean Paul Valley back to life? I would love to see him return as a villain or, at elast, a Punisher type keeping more in tune with his "Angel of Vengeance" motif.

He really is the perfect foil for Bats. Like Jason Todd he is a symbol of failure for Batman and on a phsical side he is the man who totally trashed Bane. Not Bane as we know him now but Bane on Venom. To me there has to be be a spark of uncertainty in Batman's mind if he could handle Azrael in a fight. He never bested him physically really as he took the mantle back by playing on Jean Paul's immaturity and fears.

For those more 'in the know" than me does the fact that he reeks of Joe Q. have anything to due with the character's unceremonius end and lack of revival? I miss the character and wonder if there are any other's who enjoyed his entire run fro "Sword" staright through "knightsend" and his own series.

[Devil May Care]

I was a big fan of Azrael until they started effing with the character, and I think he could be popular enough to warrant a comeback of some kind. I like the idea of the street-level avenging angel. True, Jean-Paul is dead, but when has that ever stopped a hero from, er... hero-ing?

If they wanted to go one better they could invent a twin (just please, no clones), or something along that line. A sister, perhaps? Anyway, I'd like to see it.

As far as retcon-punches go, I'd say pretty much anything is possible.

[Agentum]

Yes i liked Azrael.
I think he was to much of a possible threat to steal sale from DC's more important Batman like heroes books, so they put him in limbo.

It would not be right to bring him back as a villian imho, let him rest.

[agentofthebat]

thats why my name is agent of the bat.....cause he was the agent of the bat he was the best!!

[ExoKnight]

I like Azrael, but if they decide to bring him back I would like to see it as a villian.

[Choppa]

I'm a fan as well. Even the crazy stuff. Like his DNA being mixed with animals.

[tymac]

Azrael was an interesting character in the Sword Of Azrael mini. I'd hope the "retcon punch" would just restart his storyline from there. You know, drop the Bat-stuff, and play with the Order of St. Dumas secret society angle. Jean Paul traveling the world and helping people while occasionally being summoned to do missions he doesn't really understand. Nomoz could have been a Bosley-type figure .

[greenulysses]

I just bought a full run of the ongoing series. Anyone care to share some highlights that I can expect? Spoilers don't bother me!

[sirgod]

The last time I read his Character, was the whole KnightFall/Bane/azrael thing. But ( I forget which one) after Bats did the Cave trick, there was a one shot thingie, of him being homeless and questioning his worth.

I remember that Homeless Vet talking to him, and him getting mad and walking off. Then when the same Homeless group was about to be attacked, He did his azrael thing. I loved that one. But alas I haven't read him sense.

Stephen

[Sizzle]

I liked him up until the Last issue of Knight's End. Then it seems like he was just trying to be fit into the mold of the bat family.

I would like to see him brought back as the character originally was. Kind of a Hulk like character in that Jean Paul is passive and Azrael is violent (and yes, kills!).

The regular series was OK. When Kitson left, I thought it went downhill. Maybe his art kept me intersted as O'Neil's character slid and slid.

[Major Danger]

I like Azrael and he is my son's favorite bat-character besides the Dark Knight himself. I'd pay to see him come back. But I was unaware that Jean Paul died. How/when did that happen?

[Generic Eric]

I like Azrael and he is my son's favorite bat-character besides the Dark Knight himself. I'd pay to see him come back. But I was unaware that Jean Paul died. How/when did that happen?

The last issue of Azrael (#100), He is shot thru the chest with two armor piercing bullets and he kind of goes off intothe sunset. It's kind of ambigous if he drops dead or just leaves the bat family with his previous vow to no longer cause violent conflict.

The last time I read his Character, was the whole KnightFall/Bane/azrael thing. But ( I forget which one) after Bats did the Cave trick, there was a one shot thingie, of him being homeless and questioning his worth.

I remember that Homeless Vet talking to him, and him getting mad and walking off. Then when the same Homeless group was about to be attacked, He did his azrael thing. I loved that one. But alas I haven't read him sense.

That was the first issue of his 100 issue ongoing series.

[Captain Jim]

does the fact that he reeks of Joe Q. have anything to due with the character's unceremonius end and lack of revival?

I doubt that very much. During the last couple years of the title, it was DC's absolutely worst selling book by far. It was my own personal theory that the only reason it was kept around for as long as it was because then DC editor Denny O'Neil was his creator and writer.

That said, I do think Jean Paul had his moments. I think the original mini was good, and I enjoyed his stint as Batman (not that I would have wanted it to be permanent). The NML issues of Azrael, by and large, were very good. I think things pretty much went downhill after that, though.

[literally exaggerated]

At this point, no. His role is already more or less adequately filled by Jason Todd. Yeah, Azrael had a few gimmicks different than Jason, but I still don't think there's a need for two street level antiheroes in the mode of Batman except who kill villains. One's actually a good idea, and there's no reason why it can't be used for good stories (though it rarely was for Azrael, and has yet to be for the new Todd. I could see Ennis writing a really fantastic version of either though). But two is fairly pointless.

[Choppa]

There's sssssooo much potential for this character that it's annoying. For instance, he had a life as a college student before ever learning about his heritage. Yet that was never touched on his series. DC should just let me write the book, it couldn't be any worse than what we got at the end of the run.

[Agentum]

He really was not an all copy of Batman as many of the other Batman characters are more or less.
He had that mode when he became more than human and would probably take down almost anything shoert of higher superpowered characters of course.
And i think it shows, his comic run is something around 100 issues thats a lot for a character introduced not long before his own book and a non DC classic hero.
Most characters in his leagu can't sell their own books for that long.

[kraftwerks]

I was a big Azrael fan, and would have loved to see his series end after the 25th or so issue. It just got so laughably bad, and as stated previously, I'm sure it only lasted as long as it did due to Denny O's involvement.
He had a lot of potential that was wasted, and then the costume change killed it for me. He was no longer visually interesting. I think in small doses he would be very cool. 52 would have been a great time to reintroduce him. Oh well.

[The Punished]

I think as long as the current regimes run the Big 2 we will not see much of Azrael. He was a great character with a lot of potential. They messed with the basic story & look of the character too much.

Hopefully one day we will see a return of Jean Paul Valley as Azrael original uniform [still the best!]

[dekard49]

Citing Azrael as a Batman ripoff or clone is a regular occurence from people who have only experienced the his vicariously through crossovers.

Its quite difficult for a writer to do justice to the character when "Azrael" has relatively little panel time, and "Jean Paul Valley" (in all his sublety) is virtually non existant.

I think there is too much baggage attached to Jean Paul Valley to make his reemergence anything but difficult for a writer; Denny's proprietary; Azraels ambiguous relation to the DCU; the fluctuating quality of the series, etc.

Theres lots of thing we might want, but what we do NOT want is another Richard Dragon on our hands.

I'd be in favour of the Azrael series being rebooted on the Vertigo range, with another man behind the mask. I think this prospect would be the most congenial to getting a new series green lighted by editorial.

[dekard49]

I think the Azrael story has huge mythologoical elements, and unlike the Batman story (we have seen how people react when core elements are changed...) there are a multitude of themes stories and characters that could be explored in the Azrael mythology without a "compromise" of the fundemental values.

[Choppa]

I don't see why it would be difficult for any writer to pick up the character. His relationship with Batman came to an end (say what you want about the quality of that ending, but it's still there!) and he was resolved in his final scene, so I think the character could have an interesting life as a non-Batman ally in a book that explored his character more.

[dekard49]

I don't see why it would be difficult for any writer to pick up the character. His relationship with Batman came to an end (say what you want about the quality of that ending, but it's still there!) and he was resolved in his final scene, so I think the character could have an interesting life as a non-Batman ally in a book that explored his character more.

I think there are a couple of reasons..

Denny's proprietary; its his series, his character, the first hurdle to jump would be a green light from him - courtesy if nothing else.

Azraels ambiguous relation to the DCU; Batman and the way JP was supposed to fit into the whole bat-thing was the main point I had in mind, but I'm going to have a reread of the arse end of the series cos i cant remember it well!

the fluctuating quality of the series, etc. - The series ended on a low note, lets be fair. There were lots of unresolved questions, his powers are all over the shop, and their was no REAL sense of resolution. A new series would be quite exposition heavy at the beginning trying to explain everything; his powers, where hes been, how the system works now etc, and unless they take the Richard Dragon option (scrap it all), I think it would be something of a slog.

I think theres quite a lot to juggle there, and I'm not sure anyone but Denny knows the character well enough to iron it all out. Dont get me wrong, I'd love to see him back. But I still think it would be a lot easier to just carry the thematic and motifs and start fresh with a new, invigorating creative team.
And I'd like to see it set in the Vertigo arena.

[Captain Jim]

Denny's proprietary; its his series, his character, the first hurdle to jump would be a green light from him - courtesy if nothing else.


I really don't think that would be an issue anymore. Denny is retired, so it's kind of beside the point. Besides, I believe Didio came on the scene after Denny left.

[dekard49]

I really don't think that would be an issue anymore. Denny is retired, so it's kind of beside the point. Besides, I believe Didio came on the scene after Denny left.

Fair point. How would you reintroduce JP at this point?

[Choppa]

Fair point. How would you reintroduce JP at this point?

I had this idea for a while.

Bascially I would start right where his series ended with Jean Paul waking up on a street after the last fight with Lehah, with some amnesia. Then I would have him try to discover his life, starting with his pre-Azrael life at school (which I think anyone would do in that situation), develop some supporting characters there, and then slowly have him re-discover his past. That would mirror the start of the series when he was on a quest to find himself, and would hopefully add some mystery as to what is going to happen.

[Dennis K]

Azrael is a decent enough character, in small doses.

[Captain Jim]

Fair point. How would you reintroduce JP at this point?

I really don't expect him to be reintroduced--at least for a long time. The series just never sold that well and at the end sales were horrible. I just don't think O'Neil is the issue.

[dekard49]

I really don't expect him to be reintroduced--at least for a long time. The series just never sold that well and at the end sales were horrible. I just don't think O'Neil is the issue.

I didnt say it would be an issue - I merely stated I thought it would be the first step in a series of obstacles to getting Jean Paul Valley back on the DC books. I , like you, agree that its unlikely JP will resurface, and was using my argument to point out that a new Azrael series with a new character would be a more realistic hope.

As i understand it, when one particular writer has been writing a book for a fair few years, they are usually approached in some form should the character be about to be revived. This is certainly the impression i have got from what I have read.

[Kara Zor El]

He was a great great character. I loved his first costume, Loved his bat costume as it developed and I loved his little shocase story that was mentioned with the homeless guys. I bought his comic but stopped after about 15 issues as I didn't like what they were doing with him.
I've been waiting for him to turn up in Heroclix for ages and with the collateral damage set he's finally arrived in his origional costume.
I liked the way he was a nerdy guy with glasses and long hair with the angel of vengence buried within. I really liked the way he lost the plot during his stint as Batman, and his take down of Bane has yet to be equalled by Bruce.
He ended up with some pretty daft costumes. If he's dead they should leavec him dead, and if not lets have him break Joker's arms again.

[Agentum]

I had this idea for a while.

Bascially I would start right where his series ended with Jean Paul waking up on a street after the last fight with Lehah, with some amnesia. Then I would have him try to discover his life, starting with his pre-Azrael life at school (which I think anyone would do in that situation), develop some supporting characters there, and then slowly have him re-discover his past. That would mirror the start of the series when he was on a quest to find himself, and would hopefully add some mystery as to what is going to happen.

Yes he don't remember who he really is and sleeps out on the street or something, but when he gets crazy hes the master of martial arts again and he kicks the thugs asses, but after that he don't remember anything.
On the night the thugs gets back on him and put the house for poor people he is sleeping in on fire but he doesn't understand the house is on fire because he thinks it's his imaginations flames he sees.........

Or hmmmmmmmmm..........maybe this was #1 issue in Azrael:D

[dekard49]

Lol ;)

Imagine an Azrael set in the medieval era. You have a period where religion rules (as opposed to consumerism now), and an Azrael jumping out on some random person would probably be taken as a genuine Angel... (as opposed to one of those troublemaking costumed heroes, which would be one of the reactions of the random person in the DCU now)... The potential is endless...

Or speaking of Endless, what about a Azrael persona in the realm of Dream? Now that would be interesting.

[Choppa]

Yes he don't remember who he really is and sleeps out on the street or something, but when he gets crazy hes the master of martial arts again and he kicks the thugs asses, but after that he don't remember anything.
On the night the thugs gets back on him and put the house for poor people he is sleeping in on fire but he doesn't understand the house is on fire because he thinks it's his imaginations flames he sees.........

Or hmmmmmmmmm..........maybe this was #1 issue in Azrael:D


whatevvveeerrr

[Captain Jim]

As i understand it, when one particular writer has been writing a book for a fair few years, they are usually approached in some form should the character be about to be revived. This is certainly the impression i have got from what I have read.

From what I've heard, this happens only very, very rarely.

[dekard49]

Any favourite arcs?
I'm quite fond of the Bane arc, i think its one of the best uses of Bane since Knightfall.

[Choppa]

Wow I haven't read it in so long it's hard to remember. I know I liked the first one though where they go after the order.

[Captain Jim]

Any favourite arcs?
I'm quite fond of the Bane arc, i think its one of the best uses of Bane since Knightfall.

The NML issues were quite good.