Nightwing #120...*spoilers* -The bad 80's sitcom parody continues.... [Archive]

Violently Apathetic

05-10-2006, 04:07 PM

I actually wouldnt be getting Night wing if Jason Todd wasn't in it. I find the interaction between the two entertainning. It's like watching the odd couple. Night wing should just get over it and partner up with Jason Todd. They would be like the cable and deadpool of the dc universe.

Wow...I love that idea. I've talked to a lot of people whose opinion of the current Nightwing seems to be 'when Jason's gone, so am I...' (I happen to share the sentiment) so that would work well. Now I'm trying to work out theme music for their buddy comedy in my head.

Guts/Batman

05-10-2006, 04:57 PM

I looked through it before telling the person who put it in my box because I was too lazy to change my pull list last week at the store...

It was one last thought of getting it. Alas, no. It is off my pull list. I'll be back when Bruce Jones comes off this title...

DrewTheXenocide

05-10-2006, 05:09 PM

Someone tell me why I'm still pissing away money at this book.

Guts/Batman

05-10-2006, 05:12 PM

Someone tell me why I'm still pissing away money at this book.

You have an insane amount of character loyalty?

CURSD BLADE

05-10-2006, 05:16 PM

See, this is why I read Outsiders (other than it being a generally good title), so that I get to read an 'in character' Dick Grayson. The art, especially the coloring, has been horrid since OYL. New penciler Paco Diaz just isn't my cup of tea, nor was Joe Dodd.

Flash_ZoneEX

05-10-2006, 05:23 PM

You have an insane amount of character loyalty?

I got as much Nightwing loyalty as the next guy but I dropped this title prompty after #118. This title is worst than awful, it's inane, campy and just bad writing!!

I get the feeling Bruce Jones picked up this gig just to pay his mortage because he obviously has no sense of the character, history or any idea how to write Nightwing beyond a ditsy, incompetant man-whore stuck in a bad episode of "Three's Company"!

Guts/Batman

05-10-2006, 05:33 PM

I got as much Nightwing loyalty as the next guy but I dropped this title prompty after #118. This title is worst than awful, it's inane, campy and just bad writing!!

I get the feeling Bruce Jones picked up this gig just to pay his mortage because he obviously has no sense of the character, history or any idea how to write Nightwing beyond a ditsy, incompetant man-whore stuck in a bad episode of "Three's Company"!

Indeed. I love the character as well but this just takes too much mental energy to sit through. This coming from a person who made it through #109-116...

Then we have the art...I couldn't even hardly look through the issue. I'd have to buy it to prep my eyes for the art before reading it. Then the story would have to be some awesome A++++ stuff for me to get over the art. I had to do that for Warlord #3 (ironically it has the same author)...

But with Warlord #3, I can get into that. I'm also getting into non-hero comic books right now so that makes sense...

DrewTheXenocide

05-10-2006, 05:39 PM

Damn. Me knocking this off my list means that I've got no DC books. Tch. Pretty lame. Is there any other book where I can get my Nightwing fix?

The_DUKE_inc

05-10-2006, 05:55 PM

JEZZUS....at this point wouldn't it be better if everyone stopped buying and hope they just CANCEL the title very soon?

I mean how can anyone see any foreseable way to reedem the character after Devin's fanfic run and now Bruce Jone's horrendous interpretation? :confused:

Valen

05-10-2006, 06:03 PM

Guts/Batman

05-10-2006, 06:03 PM

Is there any other book where I can get my Nightwing fix?

Yes...

Outsiders. But don't quote me on that. I don't read it...

Yoda

05-10-2006, 06:21 PM

Bruce Jones wrote about twenty issues of Hulk where there was no Hulk in the book. Alright, that's an exageration. Hulk appeared in like three of those issues.

I wasn't expecting anything remotely resembing a good book when he got put on Nightwing. So in that sense it's nice to have my expectations met!

DrewTheXenocide

05-10-2006, 06:41 PM

Yes...

Outsiders. But don't quote me on that. I don't read it...
But I hear it's been pretty bad since OYL.

CURSD BLADE

05-10-2006, 06:50 PM

But I hear it's been pretty bad since OYL.

I beg the differ. Outsiders has improved greatly since the OYL jump. Winick has taken the title back to its roots of a black-ops take on superheroics with an edgier, more contemporary feel to the more iconic team titles such as JLA.

Nightwing has rejoined the team as leader, and his characterization is dead on. Winick is doing great stuff on this title.

Brack360

05-10-2006, 07:58 PM

How has Nightwing's characterization been in Outsiders? I have thought about picking that title up but have been hesitant because I really did not enjoy Judd Winick's run on Batman.

drwho

05-10-2006, 08:36 PM

This is a good book. I think its much better then Bruce's Hulk run. Anyway in my eyes Nightwing has always been a want to be Batman. I've never been too into Nightwing because he seems boring. Jason Todd makes this book interesting. Hell, I'd be fine if they killed dick :D and replaced him with Jason Todd permanently. I mean since Azrael has been gone dc is missing a slot for the killer vigilante position.

Calculator

05-10-2006, 11:59 PM

God I wanted to love this so much...the idea of Jason Todd trying to usurp Dick Grayson's role just sounded like it had so much potential...but what I'm reading is getting progessively worse. And this is with the halo effect Infinite Crisis is giving much of the DC books for me.

This is likely to be the first casualty to the OYL books for me. I think I'll try Firestorm instead.

phantom1592

05-11-2006, 07:18 AM

I beg the differ. Outsiders has improved greatly since the OYL jump. Winick has taken the title back to its roots of a black-ops take on superheroics with an edgier, more contemporary feel to the more iconic team titles such as JLA.

Nightwing has rejoined the team as leader, and his characterization is dead on. Winick is doing great stuff on this title.

I thought I heard somewhere, that Nightwing kills people in Outsiders. People were saying that it might be Todd over there.

If he's THAT kind of character, then they TRULY screwed up the charcterization.

Again, I don't read Outsiders, Is this accurate?

Rich L

05-11-2006, 09:16 AM

I think its much better then Bruce's Hulk run.

Talk about damning with faint praise.

Nightwing under Jones is a joke; in the first issue he managed to do only what one other writer has done (and that's Judd Winwick in outsiders the same month) -completely turned me off one of my favourite characters.

Bad characterisation, poor dialogue and no real explanation why after a year training with Bats and Robin, Dick is the only one who isn't together.

Let me know when Jones has gone...

Papervolcano

05-11-2006, 10:28 AM

Did I miss a memo, and this is actually a surrealist comedy, taking place in a bizarro-world? Neither Dick nor Jason are anything approaching in character and the dialogue is reminiscent of a 12-year-old fanfic writer on a sugar rush. It physically pains me to read this book (yes, I have dropped it). Still, I don't want to always be negative, so... The new artist is decent?

Tell me when Jones is gone. I don't like not having Nightwing on my pull list.

lucifernomi

05-11-2006, 11:26 AM

Ok, this book is getting panned pretty bad, and rightly so, because it wasn't good.

Still, it is the best OYL Nightwing issue so far, which is saying practically nothing, but maybe things will get a little better? Maybe? A couple things in it I actually liked. The concept is really cool, with the whole Jason-wanting-to-be-Nightwing thing (if only they'd hired someone who could actually write it). Cheyenne finally got a personality near the end that was a discernably human. 'Bout time. And you have to admit it was amusing to see her recklessly blasting into the room and "saving" Dick. And the fashion show thing was campy as hell, but I don't think it was awful: Dick is a character we first met as a boy who wore a yellow cape and green spankys; it's nice to see him not taking himself so seriously sometimes.

But I will complain about one thing: The art was embarrassing. Those fights between Jason and Dick should have been really fun, but all the art showed was the two of them doing vague, completely nonsensical acrobatic poses in mid-air. Anyone who's seen five minutes of a martial arts movie could have come up with more exciting fare, or at least depicted a fight that actually progressed in reasonable order, rather than showing people bouncing around haphazardly. Honestly, the first fight was one of the worst things I've ever seen in comics.

colossus34

05-11-2006, 12:43 PM

I love the character of Dick Grayson, but this is not the iconic hero I've grown to admire over the years...I don't miss Devin one bit either, she started this whole self-loathing, bimbo, incompetant, "get's saved by Mary Sue's" Nightwing and now Bruce Jones has turned the whole book into a sad, sitcom parody!!! WTF?!

By the way, I already dropped the book like most people, and now I'm going to close my eyes and hope this travestry somehow dissapears from existense :(

Walk me up when we get a real writer on Nightwing?

bloodyarts

05-11-2006, 12:57 PM

I honestly don't think the book is THAT bad. Maybe I don't know alot about Nightwing (I only started collecting it when Deathstroke the Terminator and his daughter, Rose Wilson showed up).

My vision of Nightwing was always as someone who admired Batman greatly, but wanted to be his own hero, in his own town, but with less of the Batman angst. That's what I'm getting, so I'm satisfied. The Jason Todd dynamic is refreshing, and just as Slade and Rose did earlier, it keeps Nightwing refreshing and full of surprises.

I'll admit, I thought the catwalk was too much, and that the crowd sat and watched Jason and Dick fight without anyone realizing who they were was puzzling, at best. Still, the Pierce Brothers, Jason Todd, and now this Jakob character have hooked me. Maybe the strength of the title lies in its supporting cast, moreso than the main character, which seems to be a Bruce Jones staple.

Red Lotus

05-11-2006, 01:20 PM

I thought I heard somewhere, that Nightwing kills people in Outsiders. People were saying that it might be Todd over there.

If he's THAT kind of character, then they TRULY screwed up the charcterization.

Again, I don't read Outsiders, Is this accurate?

I haven't seen any of that in Outsiders. So I would say no. In that book he is a great leader and he seems to be on his game. Where in his own book he seems to have lost a step.

Super Sonic

05-11-2006, 05:16 PM

...will we ever get another good issue of Nightwing?

...will we ever get a good issue of Nightwing not written by Dixon? If not, bring him back, please!

ChthonicSpirit

05-11-2006, 07:35 PM

I thought I heard somewhere, that Nightwing kills people in Outsiders. People were saying that it might be Todd over there.

If he's THAT kind of character, then they TRULY screwed up the charcterization.

Again, I don't read Outsiders, Is this accurate?

No, Nightwing hasn't, but the other Outsiders have.

Nightwing has, however, had Thunder whoring herself and Grace torturing people.

Does that impact characterization?

DrewTheXenocide

05-11-2006, 07:43 PM

It's still probably better than what he does in his own title.

Guts/Batman

05-11-2006, 09:21 PM

It's still probably better than what he does in his own title.

That's not exacly saying a lot...

Petertime

05-12-2006, 10:57 PM

...will we ever get another good issue of Nightwing?

...will we ever get a good issue of Nightwing not written by Dixon? If not, bring him back, please!

It's about time some one said it!

Why did he leave anyway, I don't recall.
Did he chose to go, a "I've said all I can say" kinda thing? (and if so any chance enough time has passed that he's got more to say?)

Matt Algren

05-12-2006, 11:52 PM

Mister Intensity

05-13-2006, 06:24 AM

I think Nightwing would be better off out of the Bat-Office.

Mister Intensity

Damo

05-13-2006, 01:31 PM

Oy what a book.

Devin had a good grasp on what made Dick tick going in, and she had a plan. It went badly in part because of some very poor pacing on her part, and in part because Nightwing got conscripted into a ridiculous number of crossovers, making her timetable even worse. She had this intricately detailed plan that just didn't fly in the face of everything going on in DC and her reluctance to step up the pace even when people started screaming for her head.

But this... this... ugh. What the heck is he thinking? It's like he flipped through some of Devin's books, picked up that Dick's life is a mess, and decided that he didn't need to learn anything else before writing the book. Like, for instance, the fact that Dick's life was being made a mess largely due to forces outside of his control, and Devin intended to finally have him rise above it all and triumph. But here... here we have Dick making a shambles of his own life when he clearly has the tools to do better, and I have no idea how in blazes you can "rise above and triumph over" being a male model that's forced to wear a knockoff of your own costume on a catwalk.

Probably the low point of Dick's life in Devin's run was when he was shellshocked at how badly everything was going, and over Blockbuster's death. And then Tarantula, living out some sort of fantasy where the heroes had killed the evil villain and got to make love as the credits rolled, raped him.

It was a low point. It was dang low. But you know what? I'll take it over "Dick walks the catwalk". I'll take it twice. At least there was an intent for a deeper meaning, at least the writer meant for it to be rock bottom.

Petertime

05-13-2006, 02:17 PM

Dixon left DC when he went exclusive with Crossgen.

thanks, I forgot all about that.
(For the record, a lot of his stuff form CrossGen is worth grabbing...esspecially now that you can find them in quarter bins)

Mia

05-13-2006, 02:34 PM

It's about time some one said it!

Why did he leave anyway, I don't recall.
Did he chose to go, a "I've said all I can say" kinda thing? (and if so any chance enough time has passed that he's got more to say?)

Yes he left DC for Crossgen. I think it was because Crossgen basically offered better financial stability benefits etc. And Chuck has a family to support.

I did read an iterview with him last year, where he was dropping pretty broad hints that he would love to have his old job back writing Nightwing. He even wrote a Nightwing like story for another company (forget the name of the book) almost exact costume as Nightwing and the heroes wife/girlfriend even had red hair.

drwho

05-13-2006, 02:54 PM

Dick's new theme song. I'm too sexy for my pants toosexy for my pants so sexy it hurts. Im a model and i shake my rump out on the cat walk out on the catwalk i shake my butt out on the cat walk. Perfect right said fred moment plus I'm eating it up how much yall cant stand the book when i'm loving it lol.

Violently Apathetic

05-13-2006, 03:13 PM

At last I got my copy and...well, generally I am a positive person and an apologist for this sort of thing, but there was one line of Jason's that pissed me off, basically when he told Dick that if anything happened to him (Jason) his friends would make sure Dick's friends suffered. Um, excuse me?

A) That's not something Jason, as characterized by Winick or any writer previous would go for. He's direct and likes the hands on approach and that type of subterfuge is not his style. It's just not the type of threat he's make, even as a bluff. He's a little crazy, sure, but he thinks he's one of the good guys and he KNOWS that's not something a good guy would say.

B) Since when did Jason have 'friends' anyway? I have a hard time seeing Jason going out for drinks with a gang of friends. The guy is a loner. (I almost wrote 'loser'...which would work too)

Is this little detail a big deal? No, not by itself it isn’t really, but little mischaracterizations (as I see them) add up and combined with the strained dialogue and the mediocre art it’s really starting to irk me something fierce. I like Winick, I enjoyed Hush, I found War Games 'tolerable' and could even stand War Crimes, but this? I can honestly say, without hyperbole, that this is the most frustrating comic I've read (indicating that I haven't been reading comics for that long...) and I really can't wait for Bruce Jones to leave and get his hands off two of my favorite characters…*

Btw, if he kills off Jason in this I'll...well, I'll be angry and bitch some more. *Waggles fingers* Hear that, Mr. Jones? Some crazy fangirl on the interweb is gonna be mighty angry with you if things don't go exactly her way! Tremble! I'm not insignificant!

*Imagine all this said in the Comic Book Guy's voice.

The Xenos

05-14-2006, 06:31 AM

Ugh. Yeah, another issue I don't know why I bought. The catwalk thing, yes, painfully nonsensical. I don't know if I'd say bad 80s sitcom, because at least that may have some humor, even ALF humor. This is just lame and incoherant.

Also, why would Dick tell Clancy Jason's name? That made no sense to me. Also Cheyenne finding out Dick's secret was also pretty lame.

Right now Dick is a fish out of water and painted a weird color.

One Year Later Batman books and Robin have brought back the characters to a state of greatness. This? What the hell is this? This isn't even some bad fanfiction as some say Devin was writing because at least there you could see a love of the character. This is some crazy story just using the name of characters to sell the book.

Nightwing fans from when the book was good or evne when it was getting better are dumbfounded. I can't image what new readers think of this mess. And while I can't stand him, those that are here for Jason Todd clearly are going to leave whenever he does.

What the hell was DC thinking? I've been getting this book from issue one. He's been my favorite character since age 5 and when I got this series in highschool he was an amazing character in an amazing book. Now, everyone's confused at who the hell he is. Even the author is allowing this. Like I said, other One Year Titles made you know who the characters are. This one the author goes out of the way to make things confusing. I never was an Outsiders fan, but I hear people are confused there as well.

What the hell has happened to Nightwing? Now I didn't care much for nor dislike Infinite Crisis. Yet I saw Dick get on that boat with Tim and Bruce and he was supposed to train and get better, back to his strong normal self. Lord knows we've all been there. What happened? He fall overboard or something? Bruce and Tim sure didn't.

Super Sonic

05-14-2006, 07:33 AM

Xenos.......that was beautiful. :o

Effect

05-14-2006, 07:56 PM

Perhaps the "friends" comment by Jason ties into the 52 title. In the first issue you see Nightwing talk with other people, like Powergirl for example. Maybe, just maybe a lot more people know about Todd being Nightwing then we're lead to believe. Perhaps some people are a bit upset or jaded that Batman, Superman, and WW took that year off and as a result that feeling might be directed at Dick and Tim (those that know them personally, like Wondergirl for example). At least those that know Dick is Nightwing and that Todd took his place as Nightwing.

Young Avenger

05-14-2006, 08:05 PM

I haven't read the issue yet but what was so bad about the catwalk thing that has so many people pissed? How bad is it?

muimi

05-14-2006, 08:20 PM

I remember when I really, really wondered what Devin Grayson was doing with Nightwing and hating Outsiders as well. Now I'm pretty much praying that they'll bring Devin back and heck, I'm buying Outsiders because it IS the only place to read an in character Nightwing, cripes...

The Xenos

05-14-2006, 09:30 PM

Yeah, I'd love to have Devin back. I really thought she was really turning the book around before Infinate Crisis. I didn't like those arcs most people complain about either, but you could tell she cared about the character and was trying something even if it wasn't working. This? I don't even know what to call this crap.

Thank you, Super Sonic, just trying to articulate how I feel about how DC is treating a favorite character.

colossus34

05-14-2006, 09:49 PM

Yeah, I'd love to have Devin back.

Devin back?!?! :eek: Has everyone gone insane! As much as I trully hate Jones, having Devin back isn't going to solve the problem the least. If i wanted bad fanfiction I can read it online. Seriously, she is the worst thing to happen to Nightwing since well...since Jones!

titanfan

05-15-2006, 10:34 AM

The end of Grayson's run was pretty good--but not worth all the set up that came before it.

I beg the differ. Outsiders has improved greatly since the OYL jump. Winick has taken the title back to its roots of a black-ops take on superheroics with an edgier, more contemporary feel to the more iconic team titles such as JLA.

Nightwing has rejoined the team as leader, and his characterization is dead on. Winick is doing great stuff on this title.

I know Winick bashing is in--but at the same time, Prior to OYL, I will say that I think he "got" the character of Nightwing. However, his OYL is horrible. His Nightwing is horrible. (If it's Dick and not Jason) I'm still in "wait and see" mode since a lot of his characters are acting strange OYL, but I have serious doubts.

The Punished

05-15-2006, 12:51 PM

I think we all should presume a "wait & see" stance as this OYL has turned DC off the normal turns. You shouldn't really judge a whole series because a coupla issues.

If you look at the history of comics, it is generally more easy to forget stories than to remember them in great detail. I know I cannot remember word for word details of many storylines of any of my comics.

But overall, I do not want any of my books to be cancelled cuz I don't like a writer, a story or stories, or whatever.

drwho

05-15-2006, 12:55 PM

I'm liking the book but when many of yall say you should wait and see before deciding if you like it. When do you reach the point where enough is enough? What does it take for an old NightWing fan to stop buying the book. I am kind of surprised with the poll results. Me thinks the actual fans of this book that like the story are being too lazy to vote, but oh well.