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devinost
05-03-2006, 03:06 PM
Last year or two in a batman comic the Riddler knew who killed the Jokers family. Did they ever say who did it??
NathanielEssex
05-03-2006, 03:49 PM
Last year or two in a batman comic the Riddler knew who killed the Jokers family. Did they ever say who did it??

I don't know about you, but I really, really do not want this story to be in continuity. I sincerely hope it was retcon-punched. I still think of the Killing Joke origin, as dubious as it may be, to be the Joker's definitive origin.
Generic Eric
05-03-2006, 03:57 PM
I think that whole storyline of Joker's so called origin was just a fan wank to Alan Moore's A Killing Joke.
NathanielEssex
05-03-2006, 03:58 PM
I think that whole storyline of Joker's so called origin was just a fan wank to Alan Moore's A Killing Joke.

Hahahaha! True. "Fan wank." I gotta use that more!
devinost
05-03-2006, 04:08 PM
It should be a older Joe Chill or, just blame the danm toaster for there death
Brack360
05-03-2006, 04:12 PM
In the Gotham Knights story (#50-55), the killer was revealed to be a man named Oliver Hammett who was strongly suggested to be the true identity of the villain Prometheus.

However, I thought that that story was poorly written and hope that it will not be referenced again.
devinost
05-03-2006, 04:20 PM
In the Gotham Knights story (#50-55), the killer was revealed to be a man named Oliver Hammett who was strongly suggested to be the true identity of the villain Prometheus.

However, I thought that that story was poorly written and hope that it will not be referenced again.

Thank you for the info
NathanielEssex
05-03-2006, 04:20 PM
It should be a older Joe Chill or, just blame the danm toaster for there death

Yup. Should have been a toaster. To emphasize the point that one bad day could certainly push someone in the direction the Joker went. All it took was a damn toaster. There's something poetic about that, I think.
Generic Eric
05-03-2006, 04:20 PM
Hahahaha! True. "Fan wank." I gotta use that more!

Yeah, it's obvious most comic writers are fans of the material.
devinost
05-03-2006, 04:26 PM
Yup. Should have been a toaster. To emphasize the point that one bad day could certainly push someone in the direction the Joker went. All it took was a damn toaster. There's something poetic about that, I think.


I never thought of it like that before but dang you are on the money with that one
literally exaggerated
05-03-2006, 04:32 PM
I like that nobody knows the Joker's origin. He COULD be the guy from the Killing Joke, or he could be the vicious killer from Alex Ross's Batman Black and White story, or anything else really.

The point of the Joker is not who he used to be. Thats Two-face. The point of the Joker is who he is right now.
NathanielEssex
05-03-2006, 04:39 PM
I never thought of it like that before but dang you are on the money with that one

Thanks, dev!
Trey Krimsin
05-03-2006, 06:51 PM
I like that nobody knows the Joker's origin. He COULD be the guy from the Killing Joke, or he could be the vicious killer from Alex Ross's Batman Black and White story, or anything else really.

The point of the Joker is not who he used to be. Thats Two-face. The point of the Joker is who he is right now.

Well said. It's even stated that the Joker doesn't even know what his true life story is. It may never be known, and quite frankly, that's fine with me.
tomasej
05-03-2006, 07:22 PM
Yup. Should have been a toaster. To emphasize the point that one bad day could certainly push someone in the direction the Joker went. All it took was a damn toaster. There's something poetic about that, I think.

That was the point that Joker was trying to make, but he turned out to be wrong didn't he? In the end I don't think it matters what spurred him to become the Joker, because he is what he is and it is, in the end, his own damn fault for becoming it.
NathanielEssex
05-04-2006, 09:24 AM
That was the point that Joker was trying to make, but he turned out to be wrong didn't he? In the end I don't think it matters what spurred him to become the Joker, because he is what he is and it is, in the end, his own damn fault for becoming it.

Oh yeah! That's right, I forgot. It didn't work on Gordon, and he tried to do it to Batman Lord knows how many times...

There had to be something in the Joker to begin with that would facilitate or exacerbate the insanity. And Moore clearly showed that the J-Man was manic pre-chemical bath when he started hopping around the kitchen like Daffy Duck talking to his wife. He completely weirded her out.
OverMaster
05-04-2006, 09:27 AM
There had to be something in the Joker to begin with that would facilitate or exacerbate the insanity. And Moore clearly showed that the J-Man was manic pre-chemical bath when he started hopping around the kitchen like Daffy Duck talking to his wife. He completely weirded her out.

I think you are confusing The Killing Joke with Going Sane. Joker never acted like a loon pre-acid bath in Killing Joke.
NathanielEssex
05-04-2006, 09:29 AM
I think you are confusing The Killing Joke with Going Sane. Joker never acted like a loon pre-acid bath in Killing Joke.

Oh, ok. I'll have to dig it out and check...thanks for the heads up!
Lorendiac
05-04-2006, 05:37 PM
Well said. It's even stated that the Joker doesn't even know what his true life story is. It may never be known, and quite frankly, that's fine with me.

Right. Alan Moore, in "The Killing Joke," was polite enough to not try to hammer us over the head that the Moore version of Joker's origin was The Only Possible And Correct Official Version From Now On. Instead, he had the Joker say at one point: I'm not exactly sure what happened. Sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another... If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!"

So if we wanted to, we could tell ourselves that the very sad, touching flashback sequences in that story, with the Joker "remembering" what his life used to be like, were really just a fantasy that his crazed brain currently wanted to remember. Himself as the poor, almost-innocent victim of circumstance, and then everything went wrong all at once, culminating with that big sadistic bully called Batman chasing him until he fell into a vat of acid. Self-Pity Galore!

A week later, the Joker may have "remembered" an entirely different version of how and why he came to wear the Red Hood before he fell into acid.

I think that's the right way to do it. The thing in Gotham Knights, trying to nail down (more or less) "The Killing Joke" origin story flashbacks in continuity, even though Alan Moore himself knew better than to try to do it that way, was a huge mistake.
90'sCartoonMan
05-06-2006, 10:02 AM
Oh yeah! That's right, I forgot. It didn't work on Gordon, and he tried to do it to Batman Lord knows how many times...

There had to be something in the Joker to begin with that would facilitate or exacerbate the insanity.

For Joker it was more than just "one bad day". I saw it as the straw that broke the camel's back. He had already been having a tough time in his career and he was trying to figure out how to help his family. Then more stuff goes wrong and it puts him over the edge. Gordon's life was tough, sure, but not miserable.

So if we wanted to, we could tell ourselves that the very sad, touching flashback sequences in that story, with the Joker "remembering" what his life used to be like, were really just a fantasy that his crazed brain currently wanted to remember. Himself as the poor, almost-innocent victim of circumstance, and then everything went wrong all at once, culminating with that big sadistic bully called Batman chasing him until he fell into a vat of acid. Self-Pity Galore!

A week later, the Joker may have "remembered" an entirely different version of how and why he came to wear the Red Hood before he fell into acid.

I agree completely.