I confused......FF question

[Zombienorthstar]

Ive tuned in and out of comics for a while but i started colleitng agian seirosuly last year....

Now in the FF there used to be Marvel Girl the teenage duaghter of Doom and Sue called Valeria...what happened to her? is she connected to the Richards daughter of the same name? Im confused. Help!

[dingo]

It turned out that Valeria Von Doom was in fact not the progeny of Doom, but the original child that Reed and Sue concieved in the negative zone during Byrne's run, the one that was still born. Franklin knew that his parents were upset so he decided to send the baby (or perhaps a copy since there was a corpse) through time. This baby was Valeria Von Doom, who Franklin then de-aged to a foetus again and implanted said foetus in his mother.

I like to think of it as the FF's clone saga, or perhaps their teenage Tony fiasco.

[Zombienorthstar]

It turned out that Valeria Von Doom was in fact not the progeny of Doom, but the original child that Reed and Sue concieved in the negative zone during Byrne's run, the one that was still born. Franklin knew that his parents were upset so he decided to send the baby (or perhaps a copy since there was a corpse) through time. This baby was Valeria Von Doom, who Franklin then de-aged to a foetus again and implanted said foetus in his mother.

I like to think of it as the FF's clone saga, or perhaps their teenage Tony fiasco.


Im actually pleased...so what were her powers again?

[dingo]

Im actually pleased...so what were her powers again?

She can (or presumably will be able to) project invisible force fields like her mum. But not turn invisible.

Far more interestingly she has Reed level intelligence. I am hoping that around the age of one she will start talking/otherwise exibit this intelligence. That could lead to some interesting stories of her getting all Reed's attention making Franklin insanely jealous. Imagine what could happen with a celestial level boy who is insanely jealous. :evilsmile

[Expletive Deleted]

Im actually pleased...so what were her powers again?Super-intelligence, force fields, and a suit of Doom-ish armor.

The whole "alternate kid from the future" thing was a little too Claremont-y for the FF and Loeb's retcon was a fiasco times ten, but I sort of like that Franklin now has a little sister.

[dingo]

Im actually pleased...so what were her powers again?

To address why I am not pleased.

How is it that there was a stillborn corpse and a child?
How is it that Doom and Sue got married? Would you marry a guy that sent your son to hell, twice?
How is it that Doom had Valeria as an heir when he would have had to know he was not her father genetically?
For me, no matter how a-sexually it was done, impregnating your own mother is as creepy as it gets.
Why the hell did young Frank send her through time?

[isaac a person]

I just thought Reed and Sue had another kid. I had no idea about the whole resurrected-corpse-shrunk-to-fetus-and-implanted-in-womb thing. That's pretty creepy. Can't they just get it on the old-fashioned way? Maybe Loeb was trying to do some extended riff on the rising number of couples using in-vitro fertilization and other modern techniques to have kids. If he was, I wish he hadn't. Maybe cosmic radiation is bad for sperm-count.

[Zombienorthstar]

I just thought Reed and Sue had another kid. I had no idea about the whole resurrected-corpse-shrunk-to-fetus-and-implanted-in-womb thing. That's pretty creepy. Can't they just get it on the old-fashioned way? Maybe Loeb was trying to do some extended riff on the rising number of couples using in-vitro fertilization and other modern techniques to have kids. If he was, I wish he hadn't. Maybe cosmic radiation is bad for sperm-count.


Agreed.

BUT

i lvoe that the FF has another kid...im all for them popping out another.

[darkhawk76]

To address why I am not pleased.

How is it that there was a stillborn corpse and a child?
How is it that Doom and Sue got married? Would you marry a guy that sent your son to hell, twice?
How is it that Doom had Valeria as an heir when he would have had to know he was not her father genetically?
For me, no matter how a-sexually it was done, impregnating your own mother is as creepy as it gets.
Why the hell did young Frank send her through time?

Sue didn't marry Doom, it was Reed trapped in his armour

only the FF (and us readers) knew it was really Reed, the rest of MU thought Sue had gone mad

re: impregnating Sue - surely all Franklin did was change reality so that Sue hadn't yet "given birth". That's how I like to think of it, still confusing though

can anyone confirm that Franklin still has his powers. I thought at end of the Abraxas storyline he'd lost his powers. Yet I'm sure I read his listing in the last FF handbook that still had powers.

[Agentum]

super intelligence is so lame really.
Why can't they just be very very clever whitout any superpowers to do them smart?

[dingo]

Sue didn't marry Doom, it was Reed trapped in his armour

only the FF (and us readers) knew it was really Reed, the rest of MU thought Sue had gone mad

re: impregnating Sue - surely all Franklin did was change reality so that Sue hadn't yet "given birth". That's how I like to think of it, still confusing though

can anyone confirm that Franklin still has his powers. I thought at end of the Abraxas storyline he'd lost his powers. Yet I'm sure I read his listing in the last FF handbook that still had powers.

Sue did marry Doom in the future Val came from.

The Reed in Dooms armour was a separate storyline.
Reed was out out of the armour in a few weeks.
Val came from more than a decade in the future.

Even if what you say was true (which I doubt)

I find it hard to believe that Reed would stay in the armour that long without succumbing to its programming and becoming Doom anyway. The point is moot due to the armour brainwashing.

I find it hard to believe the real Doom would allow anyone to take over his life.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Franklin's powers have indeed once again returned to him. And also, all this "Loeb" talk is incorrect. He was the re-writer, not the author. Carlos Pacheco was the writer and penciler with Raphael Marin as co-writer and Jesus Merino on inks. Loeb was given a strict Spanish-to-English translation to clear up non-translating ideas/words/phrases/metaphors and make dialogue sound natural. These weren't his ideas, and in many cases, weren't his words. This was Pacheco's baby.

[darkhawk76]

Sue did marry Doom in the future Val came from.
The Reed in Dooms armour was a separate storyline.
Reed was out out of the armour in a few weeks.
Val came from more than a decade in the future.


ok I was only going by what I remembered, haven't read the issue in ages


Even if what you say was true (which I doubt)


er I wasn't trying to make stuff up, just what I remembered of the story

obviously I was wrong

[dingo]

ok I was only going by what I remembered, haven't read the issue in ages



er I wasn't trying to make stuff up, just what I remembered of the story

obviously I was wrong
I wasn't trying to imply you made it up. On looking at it again I saw it was possible to interpret it the way you said, it just didn't make as much sense to me.

[Simon Garth]

It turned out that Valeria Von Doom was in fact not the progeny of Doom, but the original child that Reed and Sue concieved in the negative zone during Byrne's run, the one that was still born. Franklin knew that his parents were upset so he decided to send the baby (or perhaps a copy since there was a corpse) through time. This baby was Valeria Von Doom, who Franklin then de-aged to a foetus again and implanted said foetus in his mother.

I like to think of it as the FF's clone saga, or perhaps their teenage Tony fiasco.

:eek: Ye gods, what a car crash of an idea. Shoot the writer!

[darkhawk76]

I wasn't trying to imply you made it up. On looking at it again I saw it was possible to interpret it the way you said, it just didn't make as much sense to me.

sorry I was little hurt by your "Even if what you say was true (which I doubt)" comment

I'm a touchy sod :p