CIVIL WAR #1 (*spoilers*)

[Nick Kal]

Is there a thread for the actual issue or does that review thing count as the thread? A mod can move it?

So I picked this up because it looked like it would be interesting... and it was!

We all know how it starts... with the New Warriors. (Speedball is confirmed as dead, btw, later on in the issue.)

Then heroes clean up after the big Stamford incident and we see a few survivors... but a lot of people died. There is a funeral service where a mother yells at Tony Stark and spits in his face for funding the Avengers and promoting the right for young kids to think it's cool to be a hero.

Cut to Johnny Storm headed to a night club where he gets attacked by some angry people and has to be hospitalized after not only getting a bottle cracked on his head, but having the people stomb on him.

Heroes meet in the Baxter Building to discuss the situation... the government is ready to pass the registration... and the heroes are deciding if they'll go with it or not. You can see sides forming... Spidey seems to be Anti-Registration... but can Stark change his mind? Also, Daredevil is there... flipping a coin (hmmm)...

Then (my favorite part!!!), Captain America has a face off with SHIELD Commander Hill, and it eventually results in him having to beat down a whole lot of SHIELD Officers when he doesnt want to agree to the registratipon...

So The President says Cap is in the underground and anti-registration has a figurehead... but Iron-Man, Mr. Fantastic & Hank Pym (Yellow Jacket) say to leave Cap to them...

TO BE CONTINUED!

It was a decent start... not everything I wanted, but Millar will bring it up as the stroy progresses.

[Kevinroc]

Do we find out who the surviving New Warrior is in this issue?

(Hhmm... This sounds like more of a set-up issue than I would have expected.)

[Weapon Ick]

I didn't know it was possible to get new comics before wednesday.

This sounds interresting. I have some questions though. I thought Daredevil was in jail. And I was also under the impression that the Stamford incident was called The Riverside incedent. And how could Johnny Storm get taken down by civilians?

[Nick Kal]

We don't know who survived from teh New Warriors.

There are 2 Daredevils running around... Or Matt Murdock is in jail, rather, and someone is playing Daredevil on the outside... though why he would be invited to a gathering of heroes is weird to me...

I don't recall what the incident is called now and my comics are away...

Also, Johnny was just talking and his head got smacked with a bottle.. then a mob of people held him down and beat on him.

[Kevinroc]

We don't know who survived from teh New Warriors.

There are 2 Daredevils running around... Or Matt Murdock is in jail, rather, and someone is playing Daredevil on the outside... though why he would be invited to a gathering of heroes is weird to me...

I don't recall what the incident is called now and my comics are away...

Also, Johnny was just talking and his head got smacked with a bottle.. then a mob of people held him down and beat on him.

So this story ties into Brubaker's two Daredevil story. That's kinda what I was expecting.

[GoGo Yubari]

We all know how it starts... with the New Warriors. (Speedball is confirmed as dead, btw, later on in the issue.)

*Groan.* Lame. How do they rationalize that one given his powers?

EDIT:
Except, wait (Amazing Spider-Man spoilers henceforth)...

Where does it confirm his death, since that seems to be entirely contrary to the fact that he is supposedly incarcerated in Amazing Spider-Man #531?

[Nomad]

*Groan.* Lame. How do they rationalize that one given his powers?

EDIT:
Except, wait (Amazing Spider-Man spoilers henceforth)...

Where does it confirm his death, since that seems to be entirely contrary to the fact that he is supposedly incarcerated in Amazing Spider-Man #531?

Yeah. "Who or what is Speedball?" or something like that.

[Zombienorthstar]

Yeah. "Who or what is Speedball?" or something like that.


i dont think it means hes dead...i think it means they THINK hes dead...i think:D ....when the Masked Marvel turns up it will be SHOCK Speedball

Either that or they realise dhom much i lvoe Namortia and decided to let her live instead.:p

[CMBMOOL]

Man, Captain America is GOOD taking down all those SHIELD agents!!! :D


While Commander Hill is a Stubborn!!! :evilsmile


I can't wait to see what happens next!!! :D

[Hi-Fi]

Any X-Men or Runaways cameo yet?


PS: Nick, you and your advanced reviews rock.

[Beast]

Also, Daredevil is there... flipping a coin (hmmm)...
I knew it! The new Daredevil is Harvey Dent! :)

Sounds like a good issue. Shame I have hours to wait until I can read it.

[slayer2005]

I knew it! The new Daredevil is Harvey Dent! :)

Sounds like a good issue. Shame I have hours to wait until I can read it.

Gasp! The Crisis has finally arrived at the MU...oh wait, Superboy Prime punched again.

Can't wait for this tomorrow!

[Haunt]

in the story, who is it that says that Speedball is dead? i'm betting that it's a need-to-know situation and Robbie is under witness protection. probably a good idea when you consider what happend to Johnny (i was totally right about that one). Sue's next.

[Mark Thorson]

*Groan.* Lame. How do they rationalize that one given his powers?

EDIT:
Except, wait (Amazing Spider-Man spoilers henceforth)...

Where does it confirm his death, since that seems to be entirely contrary to the fact that he is supposedly incarcerated in Amazing Spider-Man #531?

They said he was responsible for it. I don't recall them saying he was apprehended.

[Coolrush]

Here's hoping the New Warrior survivor is Namorita. :) Shes one of the few New Warriors I actually like.

[MakeshiftHero]

Here's hoping the New Warrior survivor is Namorita. :) Shes one of the few New Warriors I actually like.
How could she have survived when she was standing right next to Nitro when he blew up. If Speedball couldn't survive then it seems wrong that Namorita would be the survivor. I believe it to be Speedball or Night Thrasher because either a) speedball survives and he's already to blame for the incident or b) Night Thrasher was far enough away from the blast to only get wounded and they make him responsible for forming the team. And all of that would lead into the She-Hulk issue where the survivor is on trial.

[Nevets F]

WIzard has already confirmed Namor is upset because of the death of Namorita.

A press confernece says (regarding Speedball) that they don't want to speak ill of the dead, but here is a boy who by all counts doesn't even know who the president is.

[Coolrush]

Well Im hoping She'd be strong and durable enough to take the blast but i will admit that its unlikely. Its maybe just some wishful thinking on my part but i do hope shes the survivor.

edit..ugh just saw Inferno's post :( dammit...reest in peace 'Rita :(

[sherlockbones]

And how could Johnny Storm get taken down by civilians?

If he had used his powers there would have been toast on the dancefloor...Out of most superheros I can think of, J. Storm is high up in the top ten as a mob victim

[Tony Starkz]

If he had used his powers there would have been toast on the dancefloor...Out of most superheros I can think of, J. Storm is high up in the top ten as a mob victim

Right on.Johnny was never the readily prepared warrior like Logan or DD.The mob scene was totally in character and possible.

[Web_Spinner]

That was a great issue!

Some setup stuff but that is necessary and expected, and I think the payoff will be well worth it!!!

I loved the Cap vs. Shield stuff! Just awesome! Cap has gone rogue, I love it, and they actually made it make sense. He has had an uneasy relationship with Hill, and he was cornered and threatened by Shield, so he fought back!

The johnny storm part was very cool aswell. Looks like he was hit from behind and knocked out instantly. I'm sure he never saw that coming!

Spidey seemed anti-registration when he showed up at the window, but by the end of the issue we know where tony stands, this will be tough for Spidey, but a great read!

[Zombienorthstar]

If he had used his powers there would have been toast on the dancefloor...Out of most superheros I can think of, J. Storm is high up in the top ten as a mob victim


He probably held back...he wouldnt wanna toast some civilians...Johnnys a good guy.

[JimmyDee]

OK, I just read the first issue. Loved every minute of it. I'm still kind of formulating the ideas in my head and will return later with more, but this had a good, strong start and I'm really looking forward to the rest of this series.

I feel much more positively about CIVIL WAR at the beginning than I did about HOUSE OF M. Anyone else get a chance to read it yet?

[Tony Starkz]

In this issue alone we get:

-The Stamford incident with the heroes cleaning up.
-Heroes gathering at the BB with some voicing their opinions.
-Johnny Storm getting beat up in front of a night club after a heated argument about what happened in Stamford.
-Uatu appearing signifying that something is REALLY UP
-Cap already making his stand with one BAD ASS fight scene and escape in the Helicarrier
-The human reactions at the church with Miriam confronting Tony
-While the President and his advisors gather to talk about the legislation and Captain America gone underground,Iron Man assures them to stand their ground and proceed with the law while himself,Reed,and Hank will "take care" of Captain America.

Phew!The tone has really been set.The sides are clearly defined,all that awaits is which sides the remaining heroes will fall on.Also surprised to see Spidey not siding with Tony.It was only natural to see Tony,Hank,and Reed side together after the rel'p they have with each other as inventors and brilliant minds (which we saw in Mark's EOTS).Agent Hill's views were very agreeable.It's amazing how much got done with little use of dialogue.

All in all,one hell of a start.

Easily a 10/10.

[Hi-Fi]

I enjoyed this issue a great lot.

Nice set-up.

[xmanson]

So-so issue.

The action parts were prety nice, but things got a little rushed with all the reaction and then straight to the law thing.

I want to know what will be the rationale of people standing on each side, hopefully more than the bithcing between heroes at the Baxter building (who didn't add much to the point besides showing superficilayy who would be on each side), but I guess heroes bitching sells more htan they talkin and actually discussing properly the whole thing.

And about the DD thing - do people know Matt is in jail? Cause if they do, they wouldn't let someone else pretending to be DD get into the building.

i'm curious to see how the plot is gonna develop during 7 issues - hopefully much more than hero vs hero.

[Ivan Isaacs]

I really, REALLY liked that issue. Now THAT is someting I can call an EVENT.

in the story, who is it that says that Speedball is dead?

The news report straight after the funeral.

"... like Speedball for example. Nobody likes to speak ill of the dead, but here was a boy who..."

[AllisterH]

Heh...

They really are trying to make the Warriors come off as total and complete losers. You would think they were the Champions or something....I KNEW those characterizations in Alias and in the latest Warriors revamp were going to reflect badly on speedball et al. Seriously, if I was a fan of any of the characters in NEXTWAVE, I'd be very, VERY, concerned the next time marvel needs cannon fodder heroes...

Its like people forgot that the Avengers themselves recruited from the Warriors....

In a way, the constant belittlement of the warriors actually hurts the storyline, it weakens the power of the storyline since in this issue, people opposed to registration are stating "it was only because the warriors were losers/screwups that this happened".

Nevermind that the vast majority of the people in the room at the Baxter Building still don't know that M-day was caused by an insane Avenger with a history of mental illness.....

[Zenith23]

bah! because of the bank holiday I have to wait until Friday before I can get my mitts on this.

[Beast]

Great issue. And Millar's usual political position that he shows in Ultimates doesn't show up here, which was refreshing. Bush is written like he's competant and knows what he's doing. (Don't you wish it was that way in real life?) Anyway.... great issue. Millar nailed all the characters really well, and presented both sides really fairly. Both sides have opinions that make sense, which makes it tougher to actually choose what side you support. And the stuff with Captain America was pure gold.

Cappy: "Just keep flying, son -- and watch that potty mouth."

That and making sure the pilot landed the plane safely and without damage, and taking him for hamburgers and fries afterwards. Gotta love ole Captain America. Just awesome. :)

[Xceller]

great issue, Cap was da man

[brian2322]

Any X-Men or Runaways cameo yet?


PS: Nick, you and your advanced reviews rock.

yeah they were all over the place

[Brian888]

yeah they were all over the place


The X-men were. I didn't see any Runaways in this issue.


My personal favorite little bit was Reed admitting to Strange that he (Strange) was one of the few superhumans that the US government was hoping to compromise with. You don't tell the guy that can channel Eternity what to do. :D

[We R. Venom]

Well I loved this damn issue. It was a perfect start for me. I didnt epect as much action and the apperances and that one little surprise from the W.... made me think. Hell the whole book made me think. Good Job Millar, though I still dont forgive you for Venom.:)

[Adem]

I thought this was a very strong first issue, but wished the first few pages weren't posted almost a month before the book came out. The Cap scene was worth the money alone though.

[Red Lotus]

Heh...

They really are trying to make the Warriors come off as total and complete losers. You would think they were the Champions or something....I KNEW those characterizations in Alias and in the latest Warriors revamp were going to reflect badly on speedball et al. Seriously, if I was a fan of any of the characters in NEXTWAVE, I'd be very, VERY, concerned the next time marvel needs cannon fodder heroes...

Its like people forgot that the Avengers themselves recruited from the Warriors....
..

Well Johnny said it best. The New Warriors those guys were C-List, tops

But overall I thought it was a good way to get things started.

[brian2322]

The X-men were. I didn't see any Runaways in this issue.


My personal favorite little bit was Reed admitting to Strange that he (Strange) was one of the few superhumans that the US government was hoping to compromise with. You don't tell the guy that can channel Eternity what to do. :D

no the runaways were not there for some reason i thought it said young avengers

ps. newsarama has a sketch page from issue two with patriot getting shot at by some helicopters

[stillanerd]

Spidey seemed anti-registration when he showed up at the window, but by the end of the issue we know where tony stands, this will be tough for Spidey, but a great read!

Well, I believe it's in character for Spider-Man to be against registration, obviously. However, I guess we shouldn't be surprised that he starts off that way in the beginning. After all, he STILL THINKS Iron Man is against registration as well because Tony agrued against it before the Senate. Once he finds out the truth, and considering he gave his word to Tony, I imagine Spidey will feel forced to joining with on the side for registration...and I have a feeling that next issue, Spidey will reveal his identity to the public in order to show the government he can be trusted.

[Haunt]

*breathes sigh of relief* i actually liked this. even if the art had sucked (and it didn't), i would have enjoyed reading this. i can't wait for someone (maybe Ms Marvel) to punch Director Hill's lights out. i wish that Millar were writing New Avengers.

[Ravenheart]

Great first issue.I loved Cap's reaction when Hill made the comment that he'd have no problem taking care of the heroes that weren't pro registration and then him proceeding to take down a bunch of Shield agents.The two or three panels with Daredevil,when I saw them,they just screamed to me,Bullseye.The way he was holding the coin,he could have fired it at anyone in the room and the smile/sneer he had on his face was just eerie.

[Haunt]

Great first issue.I loved Cap's reaction when Hill made the comment that he'd have no problem taking care of the heroes that weren't pro registration and then him proceeding to take down a bunch of Shield agents.The two or three panels with Daredevil,when I saw them,they just screamed to me,Bullseye.The way he was holding the coin,he could have fired it at anyone in the room and the smile/sneer he had on his face was just eerie.


am i the only one who found it strange that the fake Daredevil actually spoke at the meeting? why, if it were Bullseye, would he do that and risk exposing his own identity? the first time i heard about a fake Daredevil i immediately thought of Bullseye. but now, i don't know. i couldn't imagine any of them willingly aligning with Bullseye. maybe it's Taskmaster or the Answer.

[Ravenheart]

am i the only one who found it strange that the fake Daredevil actually spoke at the meeting? why, if it were Bullseye, would he do that and risk exposing his own identity? the first time i heard about a fake Daredevil i immediately thought of Bullseye. but now, i don't know. i couldn't imagine any of them willingly aligning with Bullseye. maybe it's Taskmaster or the Answer.


True but has anyone besides Daredevil and the Punisher ever fought Bullseye?I can't ever remember seeing him in any other title before.

[agrich]

Sorry, it's very unlikely that it was the fake Daredevil in that room. Most of the people in that room know that Matt Murdock is Daredevil. The fake DD wouldn't show up, the heroes wouldn't have let him in.

There are two possibilities - one, Civil War is set after Murdock gets out of jail. That's a bit troubling, since reading Daredevil it doesn't seem like him getting out of jail is exactly imminent.

Two, everybody in the room who knows that Murdock is Daredevil, which is pretty much everyone, also knows who the fake Daredevil is, and that he's a good guy, and they're okay with him being there, helping keep up appearances that Murdock isn't Daredevil.

I'll be interested to find out what the answer is, but at the moment I'm going with "Civil War set after Murdock gets out of jail."

As for the issue itself....



I thought it was pretty good. Two things bugged me.

1. Yeah, the New Warriors are made out to be a bunch of fools and stuff, but aside from perhaps Iron Man and I guess Sentry, who rarely shows up anyway, who among the Avengers could have done anything if Nitro decided to blow himself up outside a school? The same Avengers crew that went to fight the Wrecker, for example, back in #8 or whatever would have been just as useless if Nitro decided to blow himself up.

2. I think that both Astonishing X-Men and New Avengers have tried to make Director Hill seem like a semi-reasonable person. I mean, she's not Nick Fury, and she's somewhat confrontational the Avengers and all, but having everyone pull guns on Captain America just doesn't ring true. If they had tranked him successfully, what were they going to do? Imprison him? For what? Being argumentative? So that pretty important scene, which was fun, didn't strike me as believable.

[jade_nova]

Did anybody else notice the change in coloring throughout this issue? For scenes outside it was bright and colorful and then for some scenes inside like the Baxter Building and the SHIELD Helicarrier it was so dark you could hardly see anything. I found this issue alright. I think my big problem was reading it after I read Infinite Crisis.

[Kevinroc]

This was a very political issue. After reading it, I felt that some things were "inspired" by real world events.

Stamford = 9/11
Super Hero Registration Act = Patriot Act and Iraq War
The cries around Damien = Cindy Sheehan protests

At least those were my first impulses regarding certain matters.

[Beast]

Sorry, it's very unlikely that it was the fake Daredevil in that room. Most of the people in that room know that Matt Murdock is Daredevil. The fake DD wouldn't show up, the heroes wouldn't have let him in.

There are two possibilities - one, Civil War is set after Murdock gets out of jail. That's a bit troubling, since reading Daredevil it doesn't seem like him getting out of jail is exactly imminent.

Two, everybody in the room who knows that Murdock is Daredevil, which is pretty much everyone, also knows who the fake Daredevil is, and that he's a good guy, and they're okay with him being there, helping keep up appearances that Murdock isn't Daredevil.

I'll be interested to find out what the answer is, but at the moment I'm going with "Civil War set after Murdock gets out of jail."
It's supposed to be happening at roughly the same time. So yes, that is the fake Daredevil in the room.

[Haunt]

True but has anyone besides Daredevil and the Punisher ever fought Bullseye?I can't ever remember seeing him in any other title before.


he's fought Spiderman and Captain America, as well.

[agrich]

OK, so, do you think my second theory is valid, or is there another reason why all the people in that room who know Daredevil is Murdock aren't reacting to Daredevil being there?

In any case, if it is happening at the same time that eliminates the Bullseye theory, seeing as he's in jail now, too.

[Tony Starkz]

Did anybody else notice the change in coloring throughout this issue? For scenes outside it was bright and colorful and then for some scenes inside like the Baxter Building and the SHIELD Helicarrier it was so dark you could hardly see anything. I found this issue alright. I think my big problem was reading it after I read Infinite Crisis.

Just look around you,is the lighting always the same in every room and building?Of course not.

[Haunt]

OK, so, do you think my second theory is valid, or is there another reason why all the people in that room who know Daredevil is Murdock aren't reacting to Daredevil being there?

In any case, if it is happening at the same time that eliminates the Bullseye theory, seeing as he's in jail now, too.


there's just nothing distinctive about the face not covered by the cowl that really sticks out. and i, personally, haven't seen the new Daredevil in action. could it be Clint Barton? why would he use Daredevil's identity instead of his own to police Hell's Kitchen?

[bjtrdff]

i doubt Clint could dodge bullets like the second DD did.

I think the far more reasonable explanation is that Civil war is set slightly ahead of DD, and the real one is in the room. Virtually every hero knows DD is Matt, and there should be heroes in the room, able to tell an imposter.

Besides that, I got the impression from the next couple solits that it seemed like Matt might get out of jail soon.

[Haunt]

i doubt Clint could dodge bullets like the second DD did.


you never know. most of Clint's enemies use projectiles, like he does (ex. Bullet Biker).

[Hiromi]

Cap hijacking an F-15 was awesome, excellent kick off.

[Nomad]

If DD2 was Barton... that'd be something. I'm sure hawkeye can dodge bullets, considering his "perfect trajectory."

[Cthulhudrew]

The news report straight after the funeral.

"... like Speedball for example. Nobody likes to speak ill of the dead, but here was a boy who..."

Which pretty much goes to show just how little the writer (Millar, right?) actually knows the character (or at least how badly characterized Speedball has become over time); his father and mother were both very politically connected/active people, and Robbie was certainly pretty aware of current events as a result (at least under Nicieza).

I suppose it could just be an in-character stupidity (the speaker attempting to make some kind of point), but I rather suspect it is more on the creative end. So sad.

[streator]

sounds like a great issue, can't wait to read it.

[Mobbo]

did you notice daredevil was close to the door when he spoke? he wasn't mingling with the crowd. he probably just made himself heard and left, before anyone got suspicious.

[agrich]

did you notice daredevil was close to the door when he spoke? he wasn't mingling with the crowd. he probably just made himself heard and left, before anyone got suspicious.

If this does in fact occur at the same time Murdock is in jail, him being there even for a second would strike the multitude of heroes who know he's Daredevil as suspicious.

[Mr_Fox]

This was a very political issue. After reading it, I felt that some things were "inspired" by real world events.

Stamford = 9/11
Super Hero Registration Act = Patriot Act and Iraq War
The cries around Damien = Cindy Sheehan protests

At least those were my first impulses regarding certain matters.

Reading the issue, I thought the same thing regarding Sheehan and the Damien protests. Ejoyed the issue completely, in any event.

[cable guy]

Great issue!

I didn't understand where it was going when it started, but then BAM! Literally. And then from there on... it just has an epic feel to it.

I don't think it's possible for this arc NOT to have major ramifications afterwards.

Caps standoff on the Hellcarrier was just incredible... mainly the buildup of tension and dissension.

[DracoMalfoy]

Poor New Warriors...

They were so disrespected...

:(

[Haunt]

i wonder how much of a grilling the pilot who 'rescued' Captain America got from SHIELD.

[marvelboi77]

Great book, and best of all Spider-Woman, and She-Hulk were in it.

[ILLUS]

Heh...

They really are trying to make the Warriors come off as total and complete losers. You would think they were the Champions or something....I KNEW those characterizations in Alias and in the latest Warriors revamp were going to reflect badly on speedball et al. Seriously, if I was a fan of any of the characters in NEXTWAVE, I'd be very, VERY, concerned the next time marvel needs cannon fodder heroes...

Its like people forgot that the Avengers themselves recruited from the Warriors....

In a way, the constant belittlement of the warriors actually hurts the storyline, it weakens the power of the storyline since in this issue, people opposed to registration are stating "it was only because the warriors were losers/screwups that this happened".

Nevermind that the vast majority of the people in the room at the Baxter Building still don't know that M-day was caused by an insane Avenger with a history of mental illness.....

Good point and when did the New Warriors become losers? They did pretty well for themselves back in the day. I don't like that everyone is turning on each other so easily. This has all happened before. This storyline has been played out....

[Jake V]

Good point and when did the New Warriors become losers? They did pretty well for themselves back in the day. I don't like that everyone is turning on each other so easily. This has all happened before. This storyline has been played out....
Really? Where?

[Haunt]

Good point and when did the New Warriors become losers? They did pretty well for themselves back in the day. I don't like that everyone is turning on each other so easily. This has all happened before. This storyline has been played out....

it's not about what they've accomplished. it's about public perception. the New Warriors aren't seen by the populace as being in the league of, say, the Avengers. they were a bunch of teenaged heroes. they are automatically going to be seen as losers by adults.

[Mobbo]

hey i just had a thought. what if the fake daredevil was captain america? cap was the only one missing at the gathering. he told maria hill that daredevil and luke cage were against registration.....how would he know that if he wasnt there at the time? plus captain america has a similar fighting style to daredevil's. what do you guys think??

[Kid Kamikaze10]

it's not about what they've accomplished. it's about public perception. the New Warriors aren't seen by the populace as being in the league of, say, the Avengers. they were a bunch of teenaged heroes. they are automatically going to be seen as losers by adults.

Not to mention, some of their members (like a very special fellow who fighting in space right now that could have saved their a**es if he were around) were missing.

[Ravenheart]

Its been quite awhile since I've read anything that had to do with the New Warriors.The blue Nita,is that the real one or is it some kind of clone.If it is really her,what caused the change?

[Kid Kamikaze10]

And about Daredevil. If you go to the Civil War interview on Newsarama, it's already established that they do know about the "Murdock in jail" situation, and it will be referenced.


I personally think it's Bullseye, though I'm probably wrong.

[Dr. Killtrocity]

I'm thouroghly blown away. We see Mark Millar's work on the Ultimates has really payed off. Amazingly well written Cap. I came into this expecting a good, but not immediatley mind-blowing crossover. However CW #1 has proven be wrong. I was almost starting to feel bad for Marvel since DC was putting out all the books right now, but CW 1 almost over shadows IC 7.

[Ravenheart]

I'm thouroghly blown away. We see Mark Millar's work on the Ultimates has really payed off. Amazingly well written Cap. I came into this expecting a good, but not immediatley mind-blowing crossover. However CW #1 has proven be wrong. I was almost starting to feel bad for Marvel since DC was putting out all the books right now, but CW 1 almost over shadows IC 7.


I agree.I enjoyed IC alot but I already know by only the first issue that I'm going to enjoy Civil War even more.

[Beast]

hey i just had a thought. what if the fake daredevil was captain america? cap was the only one missing at the gathering. he told maria hill that daredevil and luke cage were against registration.....how would he know that if he wasnt there at the time? plus captain america has a similar fighting style to daredevil's. what do you guys think??
Since he was at the meeting with Hill at the same exact time, I doubt it. ;)

[Hi-Fi]

Wasn't Dr. Strange completely against the registration as seen in The Illuminati special?? Why was he acting like he didn't know what was that about in this issue?

[drewkearns]

Great start to whats going to be an awesome series. Haven't always been the most hardcore fan of all of marvel's characters, mostly a fan of spidey and the x-men but this storyline really interested me and I'm glad to see some heros throwing down in the first issue. The Cap fight scene was great, surfing on a harrier jet, now that's mean. I have some new respect for the man. Loved the tony stark scene outside the church too. This mini is about to get amped up. Anyone recommend if it's really necessary to pick up all the side stories too? I will buy CW: X-MEn, but all the others? Could get expensive...1st post, looking foward to posting here.

[Jmacq1]

Overall a better start than I expected.

The good:

Captain America kicks more butt in four pages than he has in the entire run of "New Avengers" so far.

The artwork was great.

The politics really -weren't- as heavy-handed as I expected. And it wasn't all at the expense of G.W. Bush.

The bad:

Is it just me, or do things just seem -way- too one-sided in terms of public perception? I like that they referenced other "recent events" as building up to it, but it really seems like suddenly the entire US population is anti-superhero. Surely there's at least a -few- "moderate" voices out there?

It really doesn't seem like they're taking character histories into account where the "dividing lines" are going into place. Captain America's supposed to have inspired more loyalty than any other hero alive, but folks like Hank Pym side with Tony? Admittedly, we haven't seen where most of the chips fall, but it seems like most of the "classic" Avengers are siding with the pro-registration side (though Janet sounded like she'd be with Cap at least).

Agent Hill was not relatable or sympathetic at all. And while I'm not sure she was intended to be, she was even drawn as a smarmy-looking b***h. I found myself hoping beyond hope that she dies screaming by the end of the series. :P And unlike any of the above posters, I haven't seen her as being portrayed as very reasonable in any other titles. Truth be told it's seemed to me like they're trying to make her as unlikeable and incompetent as possible, thus reinforcing the notion that nobody but Nick Fury can effectively run SHIELD.

[Beast]

Is it just me, or do things just seem -way- too one-sided in terms of public perception? I like that they referenced other "recent events" as building up to it, but it really seems like suddenly the entire US population is anti-superhero. Surely there's at least a -few- "moderate" voices out there?
Yeah, but that was on purpose I think. After all, the most vocal people are usually the 'Negative' ones. After all, that's why protesters get so much attention on the news. I'm sure we'll see the other side of the coin as well, especially in later issues and Front Lines. :)

[PeteGunn]

I think it's more entertaining to have Cap on the run and underground. Cap for registration would not be as interesting.

Now, does Prince Namor sit this out or does he join the fray?

[Androo]

I think it's more entertaining to have Cap on the run and underground. Cap for registration would not be as interesting.

Now, does Prince Namor sit this out or does he join the fray?


I'm sure he'll be involving himself as soon as he hears about his cousin. In fact, i think he'll be one of the "interested parties" Wolverine's racing against to find Nitro.

[Hi-Fi]

I think it's more entertaining to have Cap on the run and underground. Cap for registration would not be as interesting.

Now, does Prince Namor sit this out or does he join the fray?

Well, he couldn't be less interested when he first heard about it in New Avengers Illuminati but now that Namorita died...

[Sabrinaset]

WHAT IF: Captain America was PRO-Registration?

HILL: I'm told there are 23 friends of yours in the Baxter building discussing what to do, Cap. How many rebels do you estimate there? Any majors?

CAP, Mostly street level heroes. A few majors...

HILL: Okay. Go in there and kick some butt, Cap.

CAP: ...like Dr. Strange, and...

HILL: Hey, respect the badge, kay? Now nobody you can't handle?

CAP: Kay, I'll head in...

*A few hours later...*

HILL: So, Cap, how did it go?

CAP: Ribbit!

[Young Avenger]

Wasn't Dr. Strange completely against the registration as seen in The Illuminati special?? Why was he acting like he didn't know what was that about in this issue?

Doc Strange was in a room full of heroes who knew nothing of the Illuminati. Might just be acting if he didn't know anything.

I love this issue of Civil War. For a setup issue things are already getting heated. The civilians want the heroes heads for what happened in Stamford. I could understand that losing your kids is painful but blaming people like Tony Stark and Johnny Storm who had nothing to be with it is wrong. Also, it was nice seeing the X-Men in this. It's good to see they care about something other than mutants for a change.

[agrich]

I don't think Strange acted like he didn't know what was going on, but in the Illuminati special it was still just a theoretical thing. now he's wondering the exact details of what will happen and is happening, not just might happen.

Bullseye's in jail with Murdock. I'll look forward to the explanation, but the heroes must know who this new Daredevil is; most of them know it's not the original.

Agree Hill has never come off as particularly nice, but having a team of agents try to bring down Captain America when they're just talking, tranks or no, is well beyond anything she's indicated in the past.

[AllisterH]

Overall a better start than I expected.


Agent Hill was not relatable or sympathetic at all. And while I'm not sure she was intended to be, she was even drawn as a smarmy-looking b***h. I found myself hoping beyond hope that she dies screaming by the end of the series. :P And unlike any of the above posters, I haven't seen her as being portrayed as very reasonable in any other titles. Truth be told it's seemed to me like they're trying to make her as unlikeable and incompetent as possible, thus reinforcing the notion that nobody but Nick Fury can effectively run SHIELD.

She's the modern day Agent Gyrich. The funny thing is, the more and more "unlikeable" they make her, the more and more I don't want to see Fury come back since if the only thing that made SHIELD effective was Fury means that the man is more effective than the organization which IS NOT a vote in its favour.

[Mephisto]

I'm thinking the "fake" Daredevil is actually Iron Fist. In some of the interviews it was stated that he would be showing up in the series and you'd be surprised at how he did so.

It'd also make sense for the new Daredevil to have a high degree of combat prowess if this was the case. Hawkeye is good but his kung fu isn't that great.

[RedD]

I thought this was a good start for this epic. I cannot wait to read the rest of this. I just completed the last issue of DC's Infinitive Crisis, and although I enjoyed it I am actually more excited about Civil War than I was when Crisis started. Maybe it's because it has more of a real world feel to it.

My only little nitpicking thing about this first issue is the three at the end; I believe it was Iron Man, Mr. Fantastic, and Doc Strange, insuring the president that they would take care of Captain America. It's like the last twenty-something years of friendship and admiration for old wing head just went out the window and he is now public enemy number one.

It just feels like it moved to fast toward the deviding line between the two sides.

[Haunt]

I thought this was a good start for this epic. I cannot wait to read the rest of this. I just completed the last issue of DC's Infinitive Crisis, and although I enjoyed it I am actually more excited about Civil War than I was when Crisis started. Maybe it's because it has more of a real world feel to it.

My only little nitpicking thing about this first issue is the three at the end; I believe it was Iron Man, Mr. Fantastic, and Doc Strange, insuring the president that they would take care of Captain America. It's like the last twenty-something years of friendship and admiration for old wing head just went out the window and he is now public enemy number one.

It just feels like it moved to fast toward the deviding line between the two sides.


isn't wasn't too long ago that Pym sided with the government against the New Avengers. heck, he bugged the Fantastic Four and Stark's new fancy headquarters. so i don't think it's out of character for him. Tony is under the influence of extremis. i don't know what Reed's problem is.

[Hi-Fi]

My only little nitpicking thing about this first issue is the three at the end; I believe it was Iron Man, Mr. Fantastic, and Doc Strange, insuring the president that they would take care of Captain America.


That wasn't Dr. Strange, it was Henry Pym. Strange is against the registration.

[luxshine]

Which pretty much goes to show just how little the writer (Millar, right?) actually knows the character (or at least how badly characterized Speedball has become over time); his father and mother were both very politically connected/active people, and Robbie was certainly pretty aware of current events as a result (at least under Nicieza).

I suppose it could just be an in-character stupidity (the speaker attempting to make some kind of point), but I rather suspect it is more on the creative end. So sad.

It also shows a lack of foresight. Robbie's dad is the DA in the only town that HAD an anti-superhero law in place, it was a big thing both in the original Speedball series and the New Warriors first run. It would have been amazing to see Robbie alive and the issues this could bring up to his family (His dad being pro-registration, Robbie anti-registration is the most obvious... but it could also be the other way)

And I still want to know how the hell Speedball could die in an explosion if Quezada said that they were going to take his powers in account.

[Haunt]

It also shows a lack of foresight. Robbie's dad is the DA in the only town that HAD an anti-superhero law in place, it was a big thing both in the original Speedball series and the New Warriors first run. It would have been amazing to see Robbie alive and the issues this could bring up to his family (His dad being pro-registration, Robbie anti-registration is the most obvious... but it could also be the other way)

And I still want to know how the hell Speedball could die in an explosion if Quezada said that they were going to take his powers in account.


he's not dead. he's just not Speedball anymore. witness protection. that's my prediction. otherwise, i'm really unsure how he would have been killed by that blast instead of sent flying.

[Sabrinaset]

Not sure if this is more "stacking the deck" for anti-registration, but if Pym is gonna be a public face for pro-registration, then I forsee him appearing on Larry King himself...

PYM: Yes, Larry, I'm for registration.

KING: And do you say this speaking as a wife-beater, the creator of Ultron, or the schizophrenic who has suffered from four nervous breakdowns?

*Meanwhile, at the Baxter Building...*

REED: I told you he'd be worth more to us on the other side, Tony.

TONY: Glug!

[Haunt]

Not sure if this is more "stacking the deck" for anti-registration, but if Pym is gonna be a public face for pro-registration, then I forsee him appearing on Larry King himself...

PYM: Yes, Larry, I'm for registration.

KING: And do you say this speaking as a wife-beater, the creator of Ultron, or the schizophrenic who has suffered from four nervous breakdowns?

*Meanwhile, at the Baxter Building...*

REED: I told you he'd be worth more to us on the other side, Tony.

TONY: Glug!

meanwhile, Ultron is on Dr Phil talking about his abandonment issues. bad press day for Hank.

[RedD]

Obviously there is going to be the two sides. Or we wouldn't have this story. But, what it seems to already be developing into is Iron man - idealology vs Captain America idealology. Captain America already in this first issue is being depicted as a free and liberal thinker on the run from the "man"

However, Iron Man (Stark) No matter how much he thinks he is acting on this own thoughts, no matter how much he thinks he is taking the high road and doing the right thing, no matter how much he thinks he has had his "moment of clarity", it has already been mentioned in this thread that he is being manipulated and controled by the powers that be.

Does this translate to how Millar views the real world and the real issues that America is dealing with?... probably a little.

I remember reading in the interviews about this story that there is a strong effort not to have heros that will be good or bad sides, just differing points of view. How many readers already see Cap as the good guy in this story and Stark as the bad guy?

On a side note it was enjoyable to finally see Cap throw down with the Shield agents. From the pages of New Avengers,with the tension between the Avengers and Shield, that scene has been building for a long time.

[Haunt]

Obviously there is going to be the two sides. Or we wouldn't have this story. But, what it seems to already be developing into is Iron man - idealology vs Captain America idealology. Captain America already in this first issue is being depicted as a free and liberal thinker on the run from the "man"

However, Iron Man (Stark) No matter how much he thinks he is acting on this own thoughts, no matter how much he thinks he is taking the high road and doing the right thing, no matter how much he thinks he has had his "moment of clarity", it has already been mentioned in this thread that he is being manipulated and controled by the powers that be.

Does this translate to how Millar views the real world and the real issues that America is dealing with?... probably a little.

I remember reading in the interviews about this story that there is a strong effort not to have heros that will be good or bad sides, just differing points of view. How many readers already see Cap as the good guy in this story and Stark as the bad guy?

On a side note it was enjoyable to finally see Cap throw down with the Shield agents. From the pages of New Avengers,with the tension between the Avengers and Shield, that scene has been building for a long time.

the only bad guy i see in this story is the already corrupt SHIELD. if SHIELD were still run by Nick Fury, this wouldn't even be an issue. there is nothing evil about Tony's viewpoint, imo. i was proregistration before reading this and haven't changed my opinion. Cap is heroic in the sense that he didn't turn on his friends. doesn't make him right about registration.

[Jake V]

Is it just me, or do things just seem -way- too one-sided in terms of public perception? I like that they referenced other "recent events" as building up to it, but it really seems like suddenly the entire US population is anti-superhero. Surely there's at least a -few- "moderate" voices out there?
It looks that way in this one issue, but not throughout the Marvel Universe.
http://www.marvel.com/comics/onsale/covers/0706/FF539_cov.jpg

[Young Avenger]

From this issue it seems like that the anti-registration group will mostly consist of street level heroes. Cap did say heroes who stay close to the streets like Daredevil and Luke Cage would join him.

[luxshine]

he's not dead. he's just not Speedball anymore. witness protection. that's my prediction. otherwise, i'm really unsure how he would have been killed by that blast instead of sent flying.

I hope you're right. I just have bad luck with my favorite characters... So far I'm 4/5. And that's not counting Jason because he came back.

[luxshine]

From this issue it seems like that the anti-registration group will mostly consist of street level heroes. Cap did say heroes who stay close to the streets like Daredevil and Luke Cage would join him.

And that makes sense, doesn't it? Most cosmic level heroes at Marvel don't really have civil identities that would bring their loved ones damages. That said, I'm surprised at Reed's reactions.

Wasn't he anti-registration during Acts of Vengance? Or was that a translation mistake?

[StoneGold]

Which pretty much goes to show just how little the writer (Millar, right?) actually knows the character (or at least how badly characterized Speedball has become over time); his father and mother were both very politically connected/active people, and Robbie was certainly pretty aware of current events as a result (at least under Nicieza).

I suppose it could just be an in-character stupidity (the speaker attempting to make some kind of point), but I rather suspect it is more on the creative end. So sad.
Or it could be that no one knows that Robbie is actually Speedball still, and they're commenting on how he came off on the reality show.

[Tony Starkz]

And that makes sense, doesn't it? Most cosmic level heroes at Marvel don't really have civil identities that would bring their loved ones damages. That said, I'm surprised at Reed's reactions.

Wasn't he anti-registration during Acts of Vengance? Or was that a translation mistake?

Mark or Tom said that would be explained.

Reading it again,this is very self contained and new reader friendly.

[Syzygy]

I think that both Astonishing X-Men and New Avengers have tried to make Director Hill seem like a semi-reasonable person. I mean, she's not Nick Fury, and she's somewhat confrontational the Avengers and all, but having everyone pull guns on Captain America just doesn't ring true. If they had tranked him successfully, what were they going to do? Imprison him? For what? Being argumentative? So that pretty important scene, which was fun, didn't strike me as believable.

Yes, and the law hadn't even been passed yet. She can't arrest him for breaking a law that won't be passed for two weeks!

Peace,
Syzygy

[StoneGold]

Wasn't he anti-registration during Acts of Vengance? Or was that a translation mistake?
Acts of Vengeance was a different situation. A) That was purely about mutant registration, which was a metaphor for racism, which is an entirely different principle than what is going on now. B) Acts of Vengeance came out like 15 years ago. Dennis Miller used to be a lefty.

[Will.S]

It also shows a lack of foresight. Robbie's dad is the DA in the only town that HAD an anti-superhero law in place, it was a big thing both in the original Speedball series and the New Warriors first run. It would have been amazing to see Robbie alive and the issues this could bring up to his family (His dad being pro-registration, Robbie anti-registration is the most obvious... but it could also be the other way)

And I still want to know how the hell Speedball could die in an explosion if Quezada said that they were going to take his powers in account.
We still don't know who the survivor is so let's not speak too soon although Amazing Spider-Man makes it look like it was Speedball who survived.

Anyway, loved the book as I thought that it started out perfectly as far as setting up what they wanted to do. There are very human moments with the characters such as the mother who lost her son and laying blame on Stark which made for a pretty powerful scene as well as the Human Torch beatdown. I also liked the parts where the X-Men helped out as well since it made them look more humanitarian in giving aid to a devastated town instead of just being involved in their own affairs.

And yes it must be said over and over how badass the fight was with Cap and S.H.I.E.L.D., I expected a scene like that in something like the Ultimates but it works just as well for 616 Cap since he's pretty much just as hardcore.

There was only one thing about Cap that I didn't neccessarily agree with. He says that superheroes should be above the governmental politic stuff which agent Hill brings up but he never really advocates for accountability which Tony actually does and goes forward with the President and with registration. It's kind of hard to choose sides because one of them has a long term plan for the heroes (Tony) while the other revolutionary doesn't and goes against the plan but we can also agree with him in that hunting down his former teamates just feels wrong since they merely have a difference of opinion. It's the prime example of heroes fighting for their rights with neither being really wrong although there has to be a middle ground to be met.

Things are really gonna heat up with the other band of heroes who will side with Cap and I can't wait to see their reasons for allieging themselves to whatever other side. What else can you say about NcNiven's art other than the fact that it's gorgeous? He renders each character accurate and beautifully along with Morry's fantastic colors (although why every dude including Speedball has a 5'oclock shadow I don't know).

Awesome start, bring on the next damn issue.

[Haunt]

Yes, and the law hadn't even been passed yet. She can't arrest him for breaking a law that won't be passed for two weeks!

Peace,
Syzygy


SHIELD spies on the american public. they are above the law.

We still don't know who the survivor is so let's not speak too soon although Amazing Spider-Man makes it look like it was Speedball who survived.

Anyway, loved the book as I thought that it started out perfectly as far as setting up what they wanted to do. There are very human moments with the characters such as the mother who lost her son and laying blame on Stark which made for a pretty powerful scene as well as the Human Torch beatdown. I also liked the parts where the X-Men helped out as well since it made them look more humanitarian in giving aid to a devastated town instead of just being involved in their own affairs.

And yes it must be said over and over how badass the fight was with Cap and S.H.I.E.L.D., I expected a scene like that in something like the Ultimates but it works just as well for 616 Cap since he's pretty much just as hardcore.

There was only one thing about Cap that I didn't neccessarily agree with. He says that superheroes should be above the governmental politic stuff which agent Hill brings up but he never really advocates for accountability which Tony actually does and goes forward with the President and with registration. It's kind of hard to choose sides because one of them has a long term plan for the heroes (Tony) while the other revolutionary doesn't and goes against the plan but we can also agree with him in that hunting down his former teamates just feels wrong since they merely have a difference of opinion. It's the prime example of heroes fighting for their rights with neither being really wrong although there has to be a middle ground to be met.

Things are really gonna heat up with the other band of heroes who will side with Cap and I can't wait to see their reasons for allieging themselves to whatever other side. What else can you say about NcNiven's art other than the fact that it's gorgeous? He renders each character accurate and beautifully along with Morry's fantastic colors (although why every dude including Speedball has a 5'oclock shadow I don't know).

Awesome start, bring on the next damn issue.

what i don't get is why Cap didn't try maybe defending guys like Cage and Daredevil; verbally. he says that they won't go along with it; speaking for them. but maybe a compromise could have been reached like it was with Dr Strange. you might expect Daredevil to be against regulation but would it really have an effect on his life? he's been imprisoned. everyone knows his identity. joining up with the government would be the best thing for him and Hell's Kitchen. he'd have SHIELD's support instead of trying to go it alone as the new Kingpin. all of the criminals would know that they aren't just dealing with some guy who can kick their @$$ but is still basically just a human.

[RedD]

You make a good point about cap. He was being complient up until the point that he was asked to turn on his friends.

I'm also not sure if you could look at the Shield Director as being "the bad guy"... She was simply following orders. Would Nick Fury acted the same way? Maybe, maybe not, Nick and Cap are friends but they have been at odds before too.

Will we see Nick show back up during this series... I hope so. If he does which side will he be on.

[ILLUS]

Really? Where?

There have been several storylines where the government disbanned the Avengers or the government tried to establish the mutant registration act and the heroes have always pulled through it and rejected the government...so why now does Iron Man have a change of heart as if he knows better than Captain America and now he's the presidents lapdog?
DC has covered this topic as well...

[Haunt]

You make a good point about cap. He was being complient up until the point that he was asked to turn on his friends.

I'm also not sure if you could look at the Shield Director as being "the bad guy"... She was simply following orders. Would Nick Fury acted the same way? Maybe, maybe not, Nick and Cap are friends but they have been at odds before too.

Will we see Nick show back up during this series... I hope so. If he does which side will he be on.


i think Fury would be for registration. he's used heroes in the past; tried to register them. but he'd try to get his directorship back first. SHIELD's rotten and he knows it. he's probably already working with Iron Man and Reed. he probably told them to go along with it until they are ready to strike/take back control of SHIELD. i really hope this is what's going to happen. i wouldn't even mind Iron Man becoming the director of SHIELD.

[Jake V]

There have been several storylines where the government disbanned the Avengers or the government tried to establish the mutant registration act and the heroes have always pulled through it and rejected the government...so why now does Iron Man have a change of heart as if he knows better than Captain America and now he's the presidents lapdog?
DC has covered this topic as well...
The government HASN'T disbanded the Avengers here.

Trying to establish a registration act is a far cry from actually establishing it.

Iron Man is playing along with the government because he thinks he can control the way superheroes are registered, like he wanted to do with the Illuminati. They can't fight the government of the country they live in when they already made up their mind, so they have to go along, they're just doing it on their terms.

[IamtheRock3]

Obviously there is going to be the two sides. Or we wouldn't have this story. But, what it seems to already be developing into is Iron man - idealology vs Captain America idealology. Captain America already in this first issue is being depicted as a free and liberal thinker on the run from the "man"

However, Iron Man (Stark) No matter how much he thinks he is acting on this own thoughts, no matter how much he thinks he is taking the high road and doing the right thing, no matter how much he thinks he has had his "moment of clarity", it has already been mentioned in this thread that he is being manipulated and controled by the powers that be.

Does this translate to how Millar views the real world and the real issues that America is dealing with?... probably a little.

I remember reading in the interviews about this story that there is a strong effort not to have heros that will be good or bad sides, just differing points of view. How many readers already see Cap as the good guy in this story and Stark as the bad guy?

On a side note it was enjoyable to finally see Cap throw down with the Shield agents. From the pages of New Avengers,with the tension between the Avengers and Shield, that scene has been building for a long time.

in fairness any side that Cap on has the EDGE in a debate

unless it ultimate Cap

[RedD]

in fairness any side that Cap on has the EDGE in a debate

unless it ultimate Cap

Please explain? The edge with who, us the readers or the fictional public within the book itself?

[bert]

I thought the artwork was gorgeous, but I had several issues with what I viewed as "out of character" moments.

I hated the moment w/ Sue "lecturing" about how the FF hasn't had many issues by being "public". . . ummm. . HOW many times has the Baxter Building been attacked? or Franklin, or Valeria. . .or heck, Alica, been abducted?

yeah


of course, my biggest problem, was the appearance of the Watcher, w/ Dr. Strange INFORMING us how important the event must be if the Watcher is there. . . please. . .don't TELL us. . . .show us how important it is w/ a great story.

Informing us of the importance smacks of hype to me.

still. . . gorgeous artwork.

I didn't buy it, but I did read it in the shop.

[Will.S]

what i don't get is why Cap didn't try maybe defending guys like Cage and Daredevil; verbally. he says that they won't go along with it; speaking for them. but maybe a compromise could have been reached like it was with Dr Strange.
Doesn't he defend them in a way by not agreeing to hunt them down though? I mean, he says that they fought for their country just as hard as anyone else so I'm guessing that they'll be the people he'll recruit first if anything so he's going to keep a lid on that as much as possible.

you might expect Daredevil to be against regulation but would it really have an effect on his life? he's been imprisoned. everyone knows his identity. joining up with the government would be the best thing for him and Hell's Kitchen. he'd have SHIELD's support instead of trying to go it alone as the new Kingpin. all of the criminals would know that they aren't just dealing with some guy who can kick their @$$ but is still basically just a human.
Daredevil's definitely in an interesting position right now since it could be a possible conflict of interest between the FBI and SHIELD but that dependson Matt's stance and if they even want him to join the SHIELD squads but it looks like he's going to stay in jail while all this stuff is happening since they view him as a lower level threat.

[XPac]

I hated the moment w/ Sue "lecturing" about how the FF hasn't had many issues by being "public". . . ummm. . HOW many times has the Baxter Building been attacked? or Franklin, or Valeria. . .or heck, Alica, been abducted?



YEah... Sue's reaction was completely stupid.

Ignoring how many times Sues' family has been a target, how many heroes can really afford to give their family and loved ones the kind of protection Sue can give her family?

It's easy for the FF. For most of Spiderman's career, he couldn't do that for his family. Not everyone lives in a high tech fortress... it just goes to show how out of touch she is.

[bert]

... it just goes to show how out of touch she is.


I'd say more "out of character". . .than "out of touch". .

but yeah, we seem to be in agreement :)

[Beast]

of course, my biggest problem, was the appearance of the Watcher, w/ Dr. Strange INFORMING us how important the event must be if the Watcher is there. . . please. . .don't TELL us. . . .show us how important it is w/ a great story.

Informing us of the importance smacks of hype to me.
He was explaining to the assembled heroes who the Watcher was. He wasn't pandering to the audience. The Watcher is exactly what Dr. Strange said he was. Really, I cann't see what the problem is with having the Watcher show up and explaining who he is and what he does.

[Will.S]

He was explaining to the assembled heroes who the Watcher was. He wasn't pandering to the audience. The Watcher is exactly what Dr. Strange said he was. Really, I cann't see what the problem is with having the Watcher show up and explaining who he is and what he does.
Yeah, if anything it helps out the reader who's new to comics or is trying out a crossover like this for the first time so it never bothers me that Millar is keeping the reader informed rather than have them be like "Waitaminute.....who's that perv staring at them!?!".

[agrich]

My only little nitpicking thing about this first issue is the three at the end; I believe it was Iron Man, Mr. Fantastic, and [Yellowjacket], insuring the president that they would take care of Captain America. It's like the last twenty-something years of friendship and admiration for old wing head just went out the window and he is now public enemy number one.


They didn't say they were going to go kill him or anything. I'd like to think it was more of a, we'll go talk to him, rather than let the government sic SHIELD on him.

[StoneGold]

Yeah, if anything it helps out the reader who's new to comics or is trying out a crossover like this for the first time so it never bothers me that Millar is keeping the reader informed rather than have them be like "Waitaminute.....who's that perv staring at them!?!".
Beyond that though... yes, Bert is right, the Watcher showing up is a way of saying look how big and imporntant this story is going to be. What, you'd rather Irving Forbush show up and go "Eh, this story sucks."

[longshot7]

a good start - waiting for more action though (Cap's scene ruled!)

but I loved that smack dab in the middle of Marvel's big event was a Superman milk ad. That was terrific.

Even in the middle of Civil War, DC still owns Marvel.

[IamtheRock3]

Please explain? The edge with who, us the readers or the fictional public within the book itself?


Reader in making one side seem better then the other

Sense Cap seen as a really moral guy..one of the top. The gold standard.

Iron man...meh not so much. Least in comparrsion

[agrich]

joining up with the government would be the best thing for him and Hell's Kitchen. he'd have SHIELD's support instead of trying to go it alone as the new Kingpin.

First, SHIELD just may be corrupt, so who knows if their support is a good thing. More importantly though, this isn't being presented as "SHIELD will be your backup singers," it's being presented as, "You'll answer to SHIELD." If you're an independent businessman, let's say running a record store, do you want to be bought by a large corporation that then tells you how to run your store and maybe sends you out on missions that they feel are in the best interest of the company or whatever? Some people like being independent; I can't really blame people who don't suddenly want to answer to Director Hill or the government before they do anything.

[Will.S]

Beyond that though... yes, Bert is right, the Watcher showing up is a way of saying look how big and imporntant this story is going to be. What, you'd rather Irving Forbush show up and go "Eh, this story sucks."
That would be hilarious.

[XPac]

Reader in making one side seem better then the other

Sense Cap seen as a really moral guy..one of the top. The gold standard.

Iron man...meh not so much. Least in comparrsion

I think that arguement only applies as far as the readers knee jerk reaction.

I do think most readers might automatically assume Caps side is right purely because it's Cap, while Tony while still a hero is a bit shadier.

That said, such notions should be destroyed after actually reading the issue since there is actual substance to both sides of the issue. In most cases, people probably will form an opinion one way or the based based on more than merely who is saying it.

[IamtheRock3]

I think that arguement only applies as far as the readers knee jerk reaction.

I do think most readers might automatically assume Caps side is right purely because it's Cap, while Tony while still a hero is a bit shadier.

That said, such notions should be destroyed after actually reading the issue since there is actual substance to both sides of the issue. In most cases, people probably will form an opinion one way or the based based on more than merely who is saying it.

Only both sides have points

But saying having Cap on one side deffinly helps


And have Stark and Wife beat Pym may not help the pro registration side..that all I'm saying

[IamtheRock3]

First, SHIELD just may be corrupt, so who knows if their support is a good thing. More importantly though, this isn't being presented as "SHIELD will be your backup singers," it's being presented as, "You'll answer to SHIELD." If you're an independent businessman, let's say running a record store, do you want to be bought by a large corporation that then tells you how to run your store and maybe sends you out on missions that they feel are in the best interest of the company or whatever? Some people like being independent; I can't really blame people who don't suddenly want to answer to Director Hill or the government before they do anything.


Also Cap made a point..depends on how Shield decide is a super villan

[RedD]

Reader in making one side seem better then the other

Sense Cap seen as a really moral guy..one of the top. The gold standard.

Iron man...meh not so much. Least in comparrsion

Thanks, I had a feeling thats what you meant but I wanted to clarify. Since you point it out, you make a good point. Morally whatever side Cap is on they have the advantage. You could argue that there are other characters in the Marvel universe with almost as much moral fiber; Spiderman, Daredevil, even Wolverine in a strange sort of way, but none to the effect of Cap.

[XPac]

Also Cap made a point..depends on how Shield decide is a super villan

And that's the problem you see right off the bat.

What does SHIELD want to do now that they are starting to get these heroes under their thumb? Are they going after other badguys? No, they're going after other heroes. Even if the non registered heroes are unlawful vigilantes there's no way you can possibly see them as the great evil when there are actual villians out there they can send them to go after.

Hydra is running around, but they're circling the wagons to go after Captain America. This is how misguided SHIELD is being shown to be.

[Sabrinaset]

Thanks, I had a feeling thats what you meant but I wanted to clarify. Since you point it out, you make a good point. Morally whatever side Cap is on they have the advantage. You could argue that there are other characters in the Marvel universe with almost as much moral fiber; Spiderman, Daredevil, even Wolverine in a strange sort of way, but none to the effect of Cap.

Not WITHIN the MU. Spidey is seen as a menace, and Wolverine...? Daredevil...he's probably Marvel's answer to Starman. High Q-ratings within Hells Kitchen and Opal City, but beyond that...?

I'd say Ben Grimm is seen as a person of much higher moral fiber within the MU than the three of them combined. Maybe not as high as Cap, but...

[StoneGold]

Hydra is running around, but they're circling the wagons to go after Captain America. This is how misguided SHIELD is being shown to be.
Keep in mind, we are dealing with metahuman metaphors here. And what in real life can we think of where a known and demonstratable threat has been relatively ignored in favor of going after a maybe kinda threat?

[x-matsy]

Ok, some questions answered. I could not see from interviews with Millar Reed's impetus for taking sides with Iron Man, but the attack on Johnny makes total sense since Reed takes family matters seriously when in crisis. Also, the way Captain America fights all of SHIELD (that Hill chick was asking for it for a long time, although she has not been around that long) was just so cool. (I am glad overall in how Captain America is being written recently--he is more iconic without being corny whatsoever). Can't wait to read more of Civil War.

[XPac]

Ok, some questions answered. I could not see from interviews with Millar Reed's impetus for taking sides with Iron Man, but the attack on Johnny makes total sense since Reed takes family matters seriously when in crisis.

Course, I guess the flip side of the Johney incident is that if he wore a mask and had a secret identity, he wouldn't have been attacked. So what happened to him I suppose could really go either way.

[Billy Parker]

My reaction...WWWWWWWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!! This issue was AWESOME!

[kidzack22]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the last three issue of Amazing Spider Man all about Tony Stark fighting the Registration Act. Leading up to this I figured Iron Man would lead the side against this. Maybe I missed something along the way, but I was confused at why Tony suddenly seemed to have a change of heart.

Other than that, excellent issue. I was confused about the whole DD appearance as well, but Millar seems to be very good at following up on these types of things, so I wouldn't question it yet. But someone tell me what's the deal with Iron Man? And why is he so willing to go after Cap?

[XPac]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the last three issue of Amazing Spider Man all about Tony Stark fighting the Registration Act. Leading up to this I figured Iron Man would lead the side against this. Maybe I missed something along the way, but I was confused at why Tony suddenly seemed to have a change of heart.

Other than that, excellent issue. I was confused about the whole DD appearance as well, but Millar seems to be very good at following up on these types of things, so I wouldn't question it yet. But someone tell me what's the deal with Iron Man? And why is he so willing to go after Cap?

You might have missed the New Avengers Illuminati special.

His stance is he isn't necessarily in agreement with the registration, but rather feels it's inevitable and the heroes are better off working WITH the registration so that they can have some control over it and lessen the potential harm to their community.

[kidzack22]

I read it, but I guess I just didn't grasp that part. He still seems very devoted to a cause where he would only have SOME control over.

Love the political stuff too. Maybe next we'll see Cap hiding in a cave.

[WindTheFrog]

My favorite parts of this issue were the opening, the scene with Cap that everyone keeps mentioning, and the scene with Johnny getting jumped. The scene with Johnny really rang true to me. So soon after the event in Stamford, and with emotions running so high, something like that would happen.

I also think Reed's position for registration makes perfect sense. He has no secret identity. His family doesn't have secret identities. And now a member of his family is attacked because he's (wrongly) associated with the masked super heroes. The best way to protect his family is to side with the government.

A few people have compared this super-hero registration act to the mutant registration act, and I just want to say they are two very different things. Mutant registration was discrimination based on genetics. Something beyond a person's control. And would only be a few steps away from Mutant concentration camps. This super hero registration act is about making the heroes government employees, not putting them in cages. That's why this whole series should be fascinating, the pro-registration side has valid points. They aren't just a bunch of black hats.

[Beast]

A few people have compared this super-hero registration act to the mutant registration act, and I just want to say they are two very different things. Mutant registration was discrimination based on genetics. Something beyond a person's control. And would only be a few steps away from Mutant concentration camps. This super hero registration act is about making the heroes government employees, not putting them in cages. That's why this whole series should be fascinating, the pro-registration side has valid points. They aren't just a bunch of black hats.
Actually, there are similarities. It's not just those that want to be heroes, anyone with powers has to register and reveal themselves to the government. Iron Man himself confirmed this in the Illuminati Special. So if there's ever a war and they bring back the draft, guess who gets drafted. Those heroes and mutants who don't want to be heroes, but now have no choice but to serve their country no matter whether they want to or not. And then there's the possibility of that data getting in unscrupulious hands, like what could have happened with the MRA. So yeah, there's a lot of potential problems inherant in this sort of idea.

[ChrisMcJ]

I have to admit that I've been awaiting the first issue of Civil War quite a bit over the last few weeks as Marvel's marketing machine has been doing its job successfully in catching my interest.

In that wait I've tried to avoid any and all information about the actual story and thus assumed that Captain America was going to be pro-registeration and Tony would be anti-registration. The main reason being in that Cap is symbolic for America and I kind of have this image of him being a boy scout and doing as he's told by his superiors. By the end of the first issue, I was pleasantly surprised to find out that this was not the case. It's something that I'm actually quite pleased with because it paints Cap in a new light for me so that token bit of characterization is a nice add on.

Speaking of characterization though, I still can't help but feel that the current take of The New Warriors is not at all accurate. I thought it was quite odd to learn that they were a part of a reality show experiment when their recent series launched and while I enjoyed the comic for what it was, it never really felt like the writer or editors involved had ever read any of the back story on the characters.

So, of course, that carried over since they are center stage in the opening of the story and the catapult for the events that occur. I'm not a continuity fiend, though, so I find that easy enough to look past. What I do find a little more difficult to leave behind though is the fact that none of the superheroes in the story stand up for The New Warriors and make the observation that it wasn't the New Warriors that caused the explosion that killed the 800 or so people but rather Nitro who has the ability to explode.

The reason I mention this is that I'm sure most of all of the Marvel heroes have been written at one point or another to where one or more innocent bystanders got killed during a battle trying to stop a villain or groups of villains. Knowing that, I would think that all of them would collectively stand behind the notion that it was the villain and not the good guys that were responsible for the deed.

These were wanted criminals after all, three who escaped during the prison break in New Avengers and had been at large for a while. And if three high powered wanted fugitives had been on the run for all this time and held up in a suburban house together, wouldn't it be more likely that some government organization or groups like X-Men or Avengers would come across the status of their location as opposed to The New Warrior who were just driving around the Midwest for six months looking for somebody to fight?

Regardless, though, it was interesting to see how quickly things escelated. In this American society where everything seems to be a knee jerk reaction, such as one person getting bit by a shark and then the media turning it into a huge alert, thus making the majority of people scared to go swimming (at least for a week) its not too far fetched to say that people watching the footage of the aftermath, leaving a number of dead children in its wake, would want someone to take the blame. And since The New Warriors are dead, the blame would have to go elsewhere.

But this is the Marvel Universe where on a monthly basis innocents are being thrown away like fodder in the sake of intensifying a story. And this is the Marvel Universe, where America or Earth as a whole is under attack by some force that only masked superheroes can save it from at least every three months. So, if you were a civilian in this world, which would you remember more, all the times the Avengers, The Fantastic Four, and the X-Men (though I don't know how much credit the X-Men actually get in the media) saved your butt or this one freak occurance?

Now none of that is meant as criticism to the story, which I quite enjoyed, but were rather thoughts I had as I read the story. All in all, I thought the story itself was wonderfully crafted and that it had some great pacing. Add to that the fact that Steve McNiven's art was a slam dunk and that Hollowell's colors made it pop off the page and you've got a combination for a great series.

For me the highlights of the story were (in order) seeing JJJ and Peter in the crowd at the funeral and Jonah saying, "I hope you're getting all this, Parker", seeing Johnny get taken off gaurd and sent to the hospital (just because it demonstrated mob mentality, why people shouldn't go to night clubs called "Lazer Club", and just because Johnny kind of deserves it for all those times he pissed off The Thing), the awesome sequence with Captain America, and the scene with The Watcher.

I thought The Watcher scene was a brilliant addition to the story and really punched it up a notch in the notion of being something epic because to me that's what The Watcher symbolizes and the fact that you NEVER see him in a Marvel comic outside of What If...? just really hits that point home. I loved that moment and really give a lot of respect to Millar for both coming up with that moment and choosing to put it in there. I know a few people have posted that they didn't see it that way, that they don't want to be told something is epic but want to see that its epic. To me, though, that one panel demonstrated more than anything else in the first issue how epic the story can potentially be. I really could not take my eyes off of it once I saw it.

But back to the Captain America action sequence. I'm really glad they decided to put that in. The first issue was coming dangerously close to being nothing more than a "set up" issue, with people standing around talking and putting things into place. As well I really appreciate it because it demonstrated just how stupid and foolish Hill is...

Rule 1: Don't !@#$ with Captain America.

Seriously. I don't care if you're heading up Shield or not. Especially if you're heading up Shield! Anybody in that position should be required to have the brains to not put Captain America in a corner like that, giving him an ultimatum. At no point in the conversation did she use any strategy, she just laid it out for him that it was her way or the highway and pretty much forced the whole of the conversation to lead to confrontation. Don't they teach these people any type of negotiation, psychology, or mainuplation these days? Its a fine art in and of itself. Hell, it should be a requirement for any potential Shield agent to fill out a survey with one of the questions being, "If you're in a possible hostile confrontation with Captain America would you attempt to handle it dimplomatically or would you proceed via the avenue of threats and ultimatums?" And if you answer B you get $#!+-canned.

But the biggest plothole of the whole issue was in this scene as someone else has already pointed out. Hill herself says, "This proposal goes to a vote in two weeks' time and could be law in as little as a month." At this point, Captain America had not done anything illegal nor had he opposed her, he had merely stated his view that these events were going to split the superhero community down the middle and that he felt it was not appropriate for him to lead a team in the matter of obtaining heroes that did not abide by it.

And then Hill proceeds to have her people attack him, even though he warns them not to, saying for them to put down their weapons or he won't be responsbile for what comes next. Maybe thats a better question for a Shield survey: "When Captain America tells you to put down your weapons or he won't be responsible for what happens next because you're trying to force a law that has yet to be passed what do you perceive to be the best course of action?"

But I understand that the action sequence was needed so even though Hill's course of dialouge seemed to be completely geared towards confrontation and nothing else, it's forgiveable. Still, though, really retarted on the part of the character herself. If I knew I was going to be in the situation of heading Shield threw this disaster in the weeks and months to come, the last thing I would want to do is turn Captain America, the symbol for purity and American values, against my cause and over to the other side. Because not only would he act as a "figurehead" for those who go against the registration but he would also act as a voice of reason to the American public, those who are both pro-registration and on the fence, causing more of them to turn towards being anti-registration.

But that's just my ten dollars and two cents on the subject. All in all I really enjoyed the first issue and am anxious to see how it proceeds. I'm actually even thinking about buying all the spin off stories just to see how the other characters outside this book are affected. And of course to see who else gets killed...

Chris McJunkin

[DeadshotFan]

IMO this book delivered one of the best paced set ups in a long time.
It didn't read like most stories of late, paced to stretch into a trade or two.
Millar has set up a true "event" here.
I honestly believe this will be a reference point for many years to come.
Unlike DC's Crisis we will get a story illuminating a vast array of characters for the story's sake, not the company's.
A great comic.
Marvel is firing on all cylinders now, I hope greed doesn't take over.

[Alphaxman]

I enjoyed the issue but I did have a few slight problems with it. I guess most of the citizens forgot the last two years “Marvel time”. With Kang killing hundreds if not thousands of people in DC only, Graviton sending dozens of major cities across the world hundreds of feet in the air, and Magneto nearly destroying New York. Plus when the Earth was turned to a prison planet by Multi-galactic empires, these heroes should get lot more support by large groups of people. I hope this address in the “Front Line” mini.

And I was glad the Johnny got a beat down. How could he be so disrespectful about the death of fellow heroes and some one that was his ex-girlfriend? Is it just me or are writers portraying him a little too immature lately? He was his most mature in the mid 80’s thru the 90’s. Then after “Heroes Returns” he was back to 60’s, 70’s barely out of his teens “Johnny-hot head-Storm” :mad:

Even though I hate how they are treating the New Warriors, I can agree that they were ill prepared for facing Nitro. Most teams would be unable to prevent what happened. If Nova, Firestar, Justice, and Rage were there, thing would have played out a lot different. I am looking forward to how “Civil War” plays out.

[Jake V]

I enjoyed the issue but I did have a few slight problems with it. I guess most of the citizens forgot the last two years “Marvel time”. With Kang killing hundreds if not thousands of people in DC only, Graviton sending dozens of major cities across the world hundreds of feet in the air, and Magneto nearly destroying New York. Plus when the Earth was turned to a prison planet by Multi-galactic empires, these heroes should get lot more support by large groups of people. I hope this address in the “Front Line” mini.
Thats the sort of thing the public expects from the Supervillains, not the Superheroes. The public is fickle, and when a bunch of kids die because some superheroes get cocky, well, this sort of thing happens.

[XPac]

I enjoyed the issue but I did have a few slight problems with it. I guess most of the citizens forgot the last two years “Marvel time”. With Kang killing hundreds if not thousands of people in DC only, Graviton sending dozens of major cities across the world hundreds of feet in the air, and Magneto nearly destroying New York. Plus when the Earth was turned to a prison planet by Multi-galactic empires, these heroes should get lot more support by large groups of people. I hope this address in the “Front Line” mini.

And I was glad the Johnny got a beat down. How could he be so disrespectful about the death of fellow heroes and some one that was his ex-girlfriend? Is it just me or are writers portraying him a little too immature lately? He was his most mature in the mid 80’s thru the 90’s. Then after “Heroes Returns” he was back to 60’s, 70’s barely out of his teens “Johnny-hot head-Storm” :mad:

Even though I hate how they are treating the New Warriors, I can agree that they were ill prepared for facing Nitro. Most teams would be unable to prevent what happened. If Nova, Firestar, Justice, and Rage were there, thing would have played out a lot different. I am looking forward to how “Civil War” plays out.


Ouch... I forgot Namorita was Johnny's ex-girlfriend. Yeah, he definately acted completely immaturely there. I almost don't blame those guys for slugging him (though they did it for completely different reasons). You'd think he'd at least give her some respect if not the rest of the Warriors and not rag on them as much as he subly did.

[David O Burcham]

So... do we blame "Crazy Scarlet Witch" retcon or "Superboy Prime Punch" retcon for Reed Richards being in favor of super hero registration when he already testified before Congress against it when it was a minor sub-plot in a crappy company-wide crossover from 1989?

[garin]

So... do we blame "Crazy Scarlet Witch" retcon or "Superboy Prime Punch" retcon for Reed Richards being in favor of super hero registration when he already testified before Congress against it when it was a minor sub-plot in a crappy company-wide crossover?
I prefer to blame it on the ability of rational people to alter their views through the passage of time and the changing of circumstances. That might be a bit far-fetched though.

I really enjoyed the issue. There weren't a lot of surprises because I'd read all the interviews beforehand, but it was solidly executed with some nice moments.

A lot of people seem to take issue with the heroes blaming the New Warriors for what happened, and ask what they would have done differently. I think, for a start, they would not have engaged Nitro right in front of a school. Obviously he's now more powerful than Namorita was expecting, but that was still an incredibly irresponsible move. Far, far better to let him get away, but that would have cost them ratings.

[Sandy Hausler]

Well Im hoping She'd be strong and durable enough to take the blast but i will admit that its unlikely. Its maybe just some wishful thinking on my part but i do hope shes the survivor.

edit..ugh just saw Inferno's post :( dammit...reest in peace 'Rita :(

Uh, why does everybody seem to think there is a survivor? The blast took out the whole neighborhood. I assume any survivors would have been found. And none is mentioned.

BTW, I haven't read New Warriors since their first incarnation, but the only members I saw in Civil War #1 were Night Thrasher, Namorita, Speedball and some guy I've never heard of called Microbe. I assume Rage is still alive? And what happens to him know that his guardian is dead?

Sandy Hausler

[SlapShot!]

Uh, why does everybody seem to think there is a survivor? The blast took out the whole neighborhood. I assume any survivors would have been found. And none is mentioned.

Sandy Hausler

there have been many references to a survivor. heres one of em, from the solicitation for civil war frontline:

“Embedded” - Civil War has ignited across the Marvel Universe! Embedded reporters Sally Floyd and Ben Urich are driven into the heart of battle—a battle in which a hero will fall. Their investigations will take Sally into the heart of Captain America’s resistance, while Urich is about to get reacquainted with a certain green friend...
“The Accussed” - Despised by a nation, the lone survivor of the New Warriors’ team is behind bars. Without family, without a friend in the world and without a reason to go one, will this hero make a deal, or take a stand?
“Correspondence” - Juxtaposing stories of war throughout time with the Marvel Civil War, “Correspondence” adapts tales from World War I and more!

[Sandy Hausler]

there have been many references to a survivor. heres one of em, from the solicitation for civil war frontline:

“Embedded” - Civil War has ignited across the Marvel Universe! Embedded reporters Sally Floyd and Ben Urich are driven into the heart of battle—a battle in which a hero will fall. Their investigations will take Sally into the heart of Captain America’s resistance, while Urich is about to get reacquainted with a certain green friend...
“The Accussed” - Despised by a nation, the lone survivor of the New Warriors’ team is behind bars. Without family, without a friend in the world and without a reason to go one, will this hero make a deal, or take a stand?
“Correspondence” - Juxtaposing stories of war throughout time with the Marvel Civil War, “Correspondence” adapts tales from World War I and more!

Ah, a solicitation. I thought people were referring to something in the actual story. Odd that a survivor wasn't even mentioned. (Not that I'm doubting there is one, in light of the solicitation, but you'd think someone would say something about it.)

Sandy Hausler

[Robert Cross]

Very good issue, 10/10 easy.

I'm loving the dynamics of this story.

[IamtheRock3]

Not WITHIN the MU. Spidey is seen as a menace, and Wolverine...? Daredevil...he's probably Marvel's answer to Starman. High Q-ratings within Hells Kitchen and Opal City, but beyond that...?

I'd say Ben Grimm is seen as a person of much higher moral fiber within the MU than the three of them combined. Maybe not as high as Cap, but...


Thing seem to be anti reg though

So you got Cap, Spidey, and Thing

The 3 most huggable heroes to the readers


And on pro reg

You got hank Pym and namor..come on now. Even the public see those 2 as jerks.

[SlapShot!]

Ah, a solicitation. I thought people were referring to something in the actual story. Odd that a survivor wasn't even mentioned. (Not that I'm doubting there is one, in light of the solicitation, but you'd think someone would say something about it.)

Sandy Hausler

oh, ya, i dont think theres a reference to it in the comic

[Neil Hill]

Not being a huge fan of all things Marvel, or someone slavishly mired in Marvel continuity, I found this perspective going into Civil War #1 somewhat liberating. However, I can't say that I was heartily impressed with the premise overall or the end result. As many in this Thread have said, innocent bystanders being killed by villians is nothing new in any comic book universe- be they children or adults. The knee jerk reaction (as one post person put it) by the American public does make sense though, but who would ultimately have the ability or the authority to regulate the super community- villian or hero? Also, if the villians operate outside the theatre of regulation to begin with, how could you possibly regulate them? It makes sense that if you're going to regulate supers you're going to have to have supers regulating other supers, but then it becomes a situation of the watched doing the watching.

I guess I just don't understand why now is the perfect time to drop a series like this. Perhaps it's making some kind of statement as to the current political climate in the US, but that seems unnecesary when so many current and currently wrapping up series are already doing that.

The positives- Steve McNiven's artwork was absolute superb!! He was in rare form in this issue! The colors howere were a bit muted and muddy in places, which detracted from my overall ability to make out what was going on sometimes. Another positive was the Cap breakout sequence towards the end of the issue! I absolutely loved every panel of that expertly paced bit of greatness.

Oh well, I'll be back for issue 2 to see what happens. I guess that says more than any words I can impart. :D

[Neolucifer]

Agent Hill was not relatable or sympathetic at all. And while I'm not sure she was intended to be, she was even drawn as a smarmy-looking b***h. I found myself hoping beyond hope that she dies screaming by the end of the series. :P And unlike any of the above posters, I haven't seen her as being portrayed as very reasonable in any other titles. Truth be told it's seemed to me like they're trying to make her as unlikeable and incompetent as possible, thus reinforcing the notion that nobody but Nick Fury can effectively run SHIELD.

I disagree a bit here . After all her bitching in NA and the illuminati special , this is probably the first time she actually got a point , and expressed the will to save people , even from themselves .To further point that out , Millar even had her repeat "You idiot ! We were only trying to save lives" while Cap is already gone .

Quote:
Originally Posted by ILLUS
Good point and when did the New Warriors become losers? They did pretty well for themselves back in the day. I don't like that everyone is turning on each other so easily. This has all happened before. This storyline has been played out....

Really? Where?

I agree :D . Sorry i'm a bit joking here , but seriously they always were quite low in the food chain , especially now , and it was pointed out , without Nova .

Yeah, the New Warriors are made out to be a bunch of fools and stuff, but aside from perhaps Iron Man and I guess Sentry, who rarely shows up anyway, who among the Avengers could have done anything if Nitro decided to blow himself up outside a school?

I disagree here as well , most of the non-mocked heroes , even the street level ones , wouldnt have jumped at nitro , in front of a bus school , itself parked in front of a school yard full of children , especially if knowing the guy's powers .The bit about them only caring about ratings isnt innocent at all . In character or not , the NW's objective wasnt public safety at all , and they did something that no other hero we knows would have done .

Wrong or not , this is exactly the way they have been portrayed for quite a while . The Reality NW (aka not the ones some love or are fantasying about) after what they have done actually deserve the disrespect they get from their fellow colleagues .

Great issue. And Millar's usual political position that he shows in Ultimates doesn't show up here, which was refreshing. Bush is written like he's competant and knows what he's doing. (Don't you wish it was that way in real life?) Anyway.... great issue. Millar nailed all the characters really well, and presented both sides really fairly. Both sides have opinions that make sense, which makes it tougher to actually choose what side you support. And the stuff with Captain America was pure gold.

Cappy: "Just keep flying, son -- and watch that potty mouth."

That and making sure the pilot landed the plane safely and without damage, and taking him for hamburgers and fries afterwards. Gotta love ole Captain America. Just awesome

Yes that was awesome . Millar nailed it here , so i guess people will stop fearing that he will write a Cap akin to the Ultimates...
The one that would scream , this A doesnt stand for France !! You motha@$%*¨!!!" :D

And I was glad the Johnny got a beat down. How could he be so disrespectful about the death of fellow heroes and some one that was his ex-girlfriend? Is it just me or are writers portraying him a little too immature lately? He was his most mature in the mid 80’s thru the 90’s. Then after “Heroes Returns” he was back to 60’s, 70’s barely out of his teens “Johnny-hot head-Storm”

This has nothing to do with him being hotheaded or not .Remember the context of his remarks .At the moment of the event , in Johnny mind's the NW are nothing but the losers that got kids dead for the sake of tv ratings and the cause for him getting verbally attacked (and leater beaten) .

Anyway i loved the issue , imo this is already the best Marvel event in many years.

10/10

[Rorysm]

I was totally disappointed about CW1. I was really looking forward to the event, although I had reservations because Millar was writing it. Here's my complaints, which probably have already been mentioned in the earlier 10 pages of posts..

1. The New Warrior reincarnation as a reality TV show. I guess Marvel ran out of ideas and just took the one from the recent X-Force/X-statics reincarnation (which was fun for a while). Granted the heavy hitters weren't there (Nova, sometimes avengers Marvel boy, firestar, and Rage). Thank god my old Favorite Darkhawk wasn't involved. None of this is Millar's fault as I guess the NW were this way before he got to them. However, why the crap are the NW's looking in the midwest for villains to fight? Seems like New York is the place with villians. Also, was it me or did Night Thrasher at one point seem like a leader? Not in Civil War.

2. The much praised Captain America scene. I understand that they had to throw in an action sequence, but it was just too rushed. You go from chatting on the hellacarrior to shooting at Cap in just a few minutes. Stupid. Utterly. Thank god they got Nick Fury out of Shield and put in someone we could halfway think would do such a thing (although it's still such a reach). The dialogue was awful too. Landing on the plane was not as cool as everyone makes it out to be...plus did Cap just think "I'll jump out this hellacarrior and hope I hit a plane" or was he prepared to plumit to his death? Also, cap says hell then tells a pilot to watch his potty mouth because he says "Jezus" when a man lands on the cockpit to his plane thousands of feet in the air. Millar's Captain America is bad...just bad.

3. Johnny storm getting taken down by a cluster of techno-dancers. WTF? Okay, he can go toe to toe with (insert any villain he's fought here), but not a sucker punch from a mere mortal. Also, I'm really sure people who are angry/disappointed in the heroes are going to try to attack one who can burst into flame (especially considering that's basically what Nitro does and they know the effects of that).

4. The big heroes pow-wow scene. How did this meeting happen? Why did everyone get together, they didn't get together when mutant registration happened. Actually, it's like they only get together like this for big epic crossover... you'd think they'd catch on by now.

5. I read the comic less then 12 hours ago and I can't remember anything else about it. Nothing. I think the art was pretty good, had a good Mark Bagley style (by that I mean everything looks like it should and is nice and crisp).

[Neolucifer]

3. Johnny storm getting taken down by a cluster of techno-dancers. WTF? Okay, he can go toe to toe with (insert any villain he's fought here), but not a sucker punch from a mere mortal. Also, I'm really sure people who are angry/disappointed in the heroes are going to try to attack one who can burst into flame (especially considering that's basically what Nitro does and they know the effects of that).

You mean you're used seeing johnny resisting sucker punch from villains in his human form ?
He isnt even a belt or military trained guy . Sure he is awesome , but mostly because of his powers and personality .
There was nothing wrong here , the guy was in human form , got hit in the back by a bottle and would probably refuse to fight back even if not unconscious when hitting the ground .

As for the people attacking him :

1- there is nothing stupider than a mob out for blood . Most really dont think about anything when riled up .

2- The few with a brain , deep down knows who he is ...
One of the F4 , those selfless guys who never attack the public . They sure wouldnt dare approach magneto , but a googy goody hero that could take a beating before erupting in rage , yes ..

[Haunt]

Johnny's comments were still tacky. he and Nita were an item and i'm not talking a long time ago. someone should remind him of when he burnt down that college campus. "C-Lister"

[Neolucifer]

Yes he was still a bit of a jerk ... as he sually is , often speaking without thinking first .
But with the current tension , should he had shouted "shup up you're talking about my ex GF ?"
He only tried to differenciate , dissassociate from the NW , and look already what happened to him :D

someone should remind him of when he burnt down that college campus. "C-Lister"

Good point indeed .

[XPac]

Uh, why does everybody seem to think there is a survivor? The blast took out the whole neighborhood. I assume any survivors would have been found. And none is mentioned.


Sandy Hausler

Aside from advertisements, I think most believe Speedball should have survived because quite frankly the blast should not have been able to kill him (something I'm suprised big brains like Reed should have been able to figure out unless there's something unique about Nitros blasts that should be able to hurt him).

[agrich]

The truth is that Millar and the editors probably didn't know/remember that Johnny Storm and Namorita had once been a couple, just like many if not most of the readers.

[Haunt]

The truth is that Millar and the editors probably didn't know/remember that Johnny Storm and Namorita had once been a couple, just like many if not most of the readers.


is that likely? isn't Tom Brevoort editing this?

[Neolucifer]

The truth is that Millar and the editors probably didn't know/remember that Johnny Storm and Namorita had once been a couple, just like many if not most of the readers.

Probably , hell until Haunt brought it up i didnt remember .. and yet she was there quite often in the FF books :D

[XPac]

Yes he was still a bit of a jerk ... as he sually is , often speaking without thinking first .
But with the current tension , should he had shouted "shup up you're talking about my ex GF ?"
He only tried to differenciate , dissassociate from the NW , and look already what happened to him :D



Good point indeed .

I don't think he should have necessarily opted to join in on the bashing of the memory of his ex-girlfriend, even if he was fearful of the growing tenion in the room. This shows how little Johnney Storm actually cares for the women in his life. He should have at least cared enough for her memory not to go around publically insulting her like that.

[WolverinesSon]

You gotta give it up to my boy Cap for showing those SHIELD mercs that they're still not ready to handle this registration enforcement just yet. I like in the oval office the guys talking about how Cap landed the jet and took the guy out for a burger afterwards. That's classic Cap, especially when he says "Watch your potty mouth son." Classic.

Before I ever read this book and the months following this I was feeling a little iffy about Iron Man because of his stance on the whole registration deal. But, now that I've read the book and seen that it was little kids corpses lying around at the school. Also when the boy Damiens mother spit in his face, that had to hit him hard and had to be a mind changer. The last page was kind of serious though. "Don't worry about Captain America, we'll take care of him." Whoa!! Sounds like something a villain would say. Unless Iron Man is making it seem like they're at odds in front of the Pres. We'll see. Can't wait til the next book though. Should be fun.

[XPac]

You gotta give it up to my boy Cap for showing those SHIELD mercs that they're still not ready to handle this registration enforcement just yet. I like in the oval office the guys talking about how Cap landed the jet and took the guy out for a burger afterwards. That's classic Cap, especially when he says "Watch your potty mouth son." Classic.

Before I ever read this book and the months following this I was feeling a little iffy about Iron Man because of his stance on the whole registration deal. But, now that I've read the book and seen that it was little kids corpses lying around at the school. Also when the boy Damiens mother spit in his face, that had to hit him hard and had to be a mind changer. The last page was kind of serious though. "Don't worry about Captain America, we'll take care of him." Whoa!! Sounds like something a villain would say. Unless Iron Man is making it seem like they're at odds in front of the Pres. We'll see. Can't wait til the next book though. Should be fun.

Yeah, I think Tony was merely grandstanding for the Pres, hoping to make a statement that the government doesn't need to deal with the heroes because they heroes will deal with themselves.

At this point, I'll wager Tony's way of dealing with Cap is merely seeking him out so he can try to talk Steve into joining their side. I doubt things will escalate to violence between friends this soon in the game.

[Mark Thorson]

Thing seem to be anti reg though

So you got Cap, Spidey, and Thing

The 3 most huggable heroes to the readers


And on pro reg

You got hank Pym and namor..come on now. Even the public see those 2 as jerks.

Hank Pym, yes, but where did you come up with Namor?

[Keith_Martineau]

Too many of you are reading too much into things, some of you aren't reading enough into other things, and many of you are just plain reading it wrong. You are approaching it from you "I'm the reader, and I know everything" stance. That isn't the situation the characters are in, and not what they're arguing from.

1) Dr. Strange wasn't asking about it as if he didn't know what it was. He was arguing with Reed. He was verbalizing the problem with people NOT registering. Reed did not have a good response.

2) Sue's reaction was NOT stupid. She was speaking from her perspective. She has never lived a normal life, the way that Spiderman tries to live a normal life. He tries to be a superhero, and have his private life be seperate. Sue's perspective is that they've always been public, and are accustomed to life tha way, and thinks it would be the same for everyone. Obviously she's wrong, but that doesn't mean her reaction was stupid. Everyone is arguing from their own perspective.

Director Hill was completely in the wrong. The act was NOT passed yet, and there was not yet a sanction against unregistered heroes yet. Hill gave him an order that had no basis in law yet, and tried to enforce it. She forced Captain America into that position in that very moment. He may have been inclined to wait awhile longer before reacting, see how things play out, but she forced him to take a stance, and forced him to go under ground.

The initial response of the public, as presented in this issue was totally accurate. Yes, there are moderate voices, and those will apparently be explored, but look back at ANY tragedy or huge event. You will, for the most part, see only one kind of reaction to it inside the first few weeks. It takes a bit of time for other voices to gain traction.

I did not feel like the Warriors were treated poorly. Let us NOT forget that Nitro made specific referrence to having been upgraded. The situation probably would have been handled, with maybe only a couple kids killed or injured, and Namorita injured, had Nitro been at normal power levels. He wasn't. The truth is, this could have happened to ANY team that had gone after that nest of villains.

This issue had a lot of ground to cover. This was a Mark Millar issue, and he handled the scenes the best way he knew how. Don't forget how everyone complained about all the talking in the first issue of House of M. You kinda gotta choose what you want in situations like this. A lot of arguing, or the points to be made, and plot to move faster. It can be done well either way, but it can't be both unless you want a much larger issue.

I dug it. Good first issue. It wasn't perfect, and I thought a couple of points were glossed over too quickly and coulda used a line or two more of explanation, but on the whole very good. Cap vs. SHIELD was awesome. Looking forward to the next issue.

[unkiedev]

You mean the scene lifted directly out of "Jaws"?

-Great book! I'm still not sure how they're going to get everybody to fight each other. I'm also sad She-Hulk seems to be taking a VERY hard lined pro-registration stance. I'm sure Slott will fix that.

I'm bummed about Speedball! I always liked him growing up as a kid. This just seems like the final slap in the face of Ditko: "We turned your OTHER hero character into a glory hogging jerk who we killed off panel." Well, maybe he survived.

[Neolucifer]

The events in Extremis changed him quite a bit too . I dont think he is under the influence of Extremis , like some sort of drug or brainwashing . However the story of the Ellis arc had him constantly doubting and questioning himself about the use of his money , brain and technology .

Anyway basically in every books featuring him , before civil war 1
, you could see a somehow different Tony ...
Manipulative in Amazing Spiderman , Pro-active in the illuminati , a bit estatic about his newfound powers in the New avengers special etc etc ...

[Mark Thorson]

The truth is that Millar and the editors probably didn't know/remember that Johnny Storm and Namorita had once been a couple, just like many if not most of the readers.

I'm sure Tom Brevoort's aware of Johnny and 'Nita's relationship since he was editing FF at the time they were an item. I dunno why he was portrayed here as being that callous.

[Neolucifer]

The truth is, this could have happened to ANY team that had gone after that nest of villains.

I sure aint arguing that supposedly "better" teams or heroes would have handled it any better , except for some omega level mutants and cosmic/godly guys . But i'm not so sure that other heroes would have jumped at their throat at such place like that , and especially not for such reason as ratings .

[Kevinroc]

I'm sure Tom Brevoort's aware of Johnny and 'Nita's relationship since he was editing FF at the time they were an item. I dunno why he was portrayed here as being that callous.

Bad breakup, I imagine.

[agrich]

That's funny, I thought of Jaws too.

Nothing against Tom Brevoort, but editor of both books or no, I don't think you can rule out the fact that he simply forgot or didn't think of the prior relationship when skimming over Civil War 1. I don't want to give him too much credit; maybe I'm giving him too little, but the truth is we don't really know.

[wtnrradio]

Where are all the major villains during this storyline...on vaction maybe...

Last time I read anything to do with the new warriors they where helping Thor take on the Juggernaut.

I know that was a long time ago,but thats just to say they still haven't matured as a team since the early 90's.It just seems to me NW became the maybe/maybe not team for marvel.

I did enjoy civil war,but they could have stuck any new team there(midwest) and it would of been the same outcome(nitro go boom) I think.

[Neolucifer]

I did enjoy civil war,but they could have stuck any new team there(midwest) and it would of been the same outcome(nitro go boom) I think
Yes with a deal breaker difference , they wouldnt have attacked nitro's team there or at least not like that ;)

[Mark Thorson]

Bad breakup, I imagine.

It was covered in the Human Torch series from a couple years ago. It wasn't really too bad of a breakup. At least, I don't remember it being that bad anyway.

[Johnny_Storm]

I think the writers have set up an interesting divide, there is a good argument for either side. I myself am anti-registration, Captain America had a good point, heroes are supposed to protect people all over the world and the American government is not designed or intended to take on that cause. I can't wait to see which of my favorite characters will see my point of view.

[Hiromi]

It was covered in the Human Torch series from a couple years ago. It wasn't really too bad of a breakup. At least, I don't remember it being that bad anyway.

Johnny isn't exactly Oprah when expressing his feelings, especially when he's busy showing off to a new girl.

[Mark Thorson]

Johnny isn't exactly Oprah when expressing his feelings, especially when he's busy showing off to a new girl.

Normally yes, but I wouldn't expect him to be that way right after a recent ex gets blown up. That's a little harsh, even for him.

[Slumber Hulk]

A few more questions:

What kind ‘post-human’ of exemption were they talking about for Dr. Strange?

What else could have been done about Nitro? What would any other hero do?

Why don't the New Warriors get ANY respect? They've done a lot of good.

What happened to speedballs history? Speedball history being forgotten, his dad being a DA and his mom being politically active. “Didn’t know the president” INDEED!

How does everyone forget the good times so quickly? Hello, the world has been saved a 100 times and New York a Million, but we make one mistake and it’s anarchy.

Where is the loyalty? From the CW cover with Thing on it, it looks like some civilians rally to the side of the masks.

[XPac]

What else could have been done about Nitro? What would any other hero do?



I'm sure many other heroes would hit him hard enough to actually knock him unconscious. She's certainly strong enough to do it.

[Jake V]

What kind ‘post-human’ of exemption were they talking about for Dr. Strange?
If there's any superhuman the government would be afraid of, it's Doctor Strange. The guy can do ANYTHING. They'll bend over backwards to appease him, or else he'll turn them into the pigs they are.

Or something.

[XPac]

If there's any superhuman the government would be afraid of, it's Doctor Strange. The guy can do ANYTHING. They'll bend over backwards to appease him, or else he'll turn them into the pigs they are.

Or something.

True. Plus, if they have had any communication with Stark or Reed they already know Strange is against the registration. Making sure he's not a target may ensure that Strange won't bother sticking up for any of the heroes that do become targets when this all goes down.

The move was as hypocrtically cowardly as it was brilliant.

[Neolucifer]

They dont know the boundaries of magic so they are cautious .

How does everyone forget the good times so quickly? Hello, the world has been saved a 100 times and New York a Million, but we make one mistake and it’s anarchy.
Just like all the time . Remember that the Avengers have been attacked by the public and press at a few occasions regardless of their good deeds . Why would it be any different now with the whole Super hero population preceived as a threat ?

Also many of the events and salvation of the world arent even known to the public . And there are people they dont even believe it .

Where is the loyalty? From the CW cover with Thing on it, it looks like some civilians rally to the side of the masks.

Well we only heard so far the outcry of the pro registration . Of course the numerous people that has been actually saved (robbery ,accidents ,etc) and that can testify about it (no longer an issue of believing if a dozen of guys went into space to save the world) wouldnt be against super heroes and will speak up .

Why don't the New Warriors get ANY respect? They've done a lot of good.

If guys that has done good get bad reps because of event not even directly their fault , it not at all .. How else would be treated the responsables (or rather scapegoats)?

What else could have been done about Nitro? What would any other hero do?
Not attacking the guy in a house while he was doing nothing , right in front of a school yard , then smashing him into a bus even closer to that school . Then waste time small talking with a guy wich power's is to blow himself up .

[Jack]

Aside from advertisements, I think most believe Speedball should have survived because quite frankly the blast should not have been able to kill him (something I'm suprised big brains like Reed should have been able to figure out unless there's something unique about Nitros blasts that should be able to hurt him).Let's assume for a second that Speedball did in fact survive, since he bloody well should have. Reed should have worked that fact out... but I can totally see him neglecting to mention it to the government.

If people find out that Speedball is alive, he's going to have millions of people wanting to crucify him. As long as everyone thinks he's dead, he can be spared that pain. Reed and Tony are supporting registration not because they necessarily believe in it, but because they want to limit the damage it causes. Reed might honestly think that there's nothing to be gained by revealing that Speedball is alive, and it would ruin his life.

[WolverinesSon]

Another thing. Did you guys notice the 'imposter' Daredevil with that coin in his hand? Does this ring a bell to anyone? Is this a clue as to who this guy is?

[agrich]

Another thing. Did you guys notice the 'imposter' Daredevil with that coin in his hand? Does this ring a bell to anyone? Is this a clue as to who this guy is?

It's Harvey Dent, taking the "Two-Face" thing one step further by appearing in Marvel Comics as well as DC.

[BlackKnight]

I would just like to scare you all, and say I liked this issue. Cap's scene was amazing and the issue had a great blend of action and dialogue and the plot moved forward. It was great.

[Web_Spinner]

I would just like to scare you all, and say I liked this issue. Cap's scene was amazing and the issue had a great blend of action and dialogue and the plot moved forward. It was great.

Agree 100%

There was a real sense of urgency and intensity in the cap scene. Brilliant, brilliant job.

[firestarfan]

The Cap scene reminded me of the Captain America from the mid 80's, when U.S. Agent took over as Captain America, and he became just "The Captain" or something like that. It was nice to be reminded that what he fights for isn't just his country, but what his country stands for.

And I also had a problem with the way the Warriors were depicted, but then I realized that the current team (without Nova) is pretty much C-list. Speedball has incredible powers that even he doesn't really know about (remember near the end of the first Warriors run, they revealed he was somehow connected to a dimension of pure kinetic energy?) but the big hitters on the team were always Nova, Justice, and my girl Firestar.

That said, the survivor can't be anyone other than Speedball. Unless the ASM teaser and the "Masked Marvel" sketches are just huge red herrings, and unless he was put in a pivotal role like this without anyone doing ANY research on his powers, he has to be the one. The "speak ill of the dead" line could be the heroes covering for him, or it could be that he just bounced far away and hasn't been found yet, and they're assuming.

Aside from the Out-Of-Character Sue, I thought this was a fantastic issue, and I think unfortunately I'm going to be forced to pick up more of the tie-in issues than I wanted to.

Also - just a note for the people who were debating Bullseye as the new DD a few pages back, don't forget that he was a HUGE rival of Deadpool's, who I think has been confirmed as a "rogue hero hunter."

[Ravenheart]

there have been many references to a survivor. heres one of em, from the solicitation for civil war frontline:

“Embedded” - Civil War has ignited across the Marvel Universe! Embedded reporters Sally Floyd and Ben Urich are driven into the heart of battle—a battle in which a hero will fall. Their investigations will take Sally into the heart of Captain America’s resistance, while Urich is about to get reacquainted with a certain green friend...


Maybe I'm missing something but who is this certain green friend?

[Mark Thorson]

Maybe I'm missing something but who is this certain green friend?

I believe it's the Green Goblin, if I remember the cover solicit right.

[Ravenheart]

I believe it's the Green Goblin, if I remember the cover solicit right.


Oh yeah thats right.Urich was in the short lived Green Goblin series.

[Psyco panda]

Is this the good green goblin? The one currently in runaways? Or Norman osborn?

It might be She hulk, if sally's teaming with the resistance, he might go with Tony, and we know shulkie is with him.

[Ravenheart]

Is this the good green goblin? The one currently in runaways? Or Norman osborn?

It might be She hulk, if sally's teaming with the resistance, he might go with Tony, and we know shulkie is with him.


Yeah it'd be the good Green Goblin.I think Phil Urich(GG) was his nephew.

[Mark Thorson]

Yeah it'd be the good Green Goblin.I think Phil Urich(GG) was his nephew.

Probably not the good one. I think "friend" was a bit of irony on their part.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/trilobite65/CIVWARFL004_FLCOV.jpg

[Will.S]

What else could have been done about Nitro? What would any other hero do?
I think any flier would have just flown him quickly above the school or as far away as possible from the scene. Like Iron Man for instance would have rammed him at top speed and throw him into a river or something. Namorita was very careless since the school was right in front of her but it was too late anyway by the time Nitro blew up.

[Haunt]

The Cap scene reminded me of the Captain America from the mid 80's, when U.S. Agent took over as Captain America, and he became just "The Captain" or something like that. It was nice to be reminded that what he fights for isn't just his country, but what his country stands for.

And I also had a problem with the way the Warriors were depicted, but then I realized that the current team (without Nova) is pretty much C-list. Speedball has incredible powers that even he doesn't really know about (remember near the end of the first Warriors run, they revealed he was somehow connected to a dimension of pure kinetic energy?) but the big hitters on the team were always Nova, Justice, and my girl Firestar.

That said, the survivor can't be anyone other than Speedball. Unless the ASM teaser and the "Masked Marvel" sketches are just huge red herrings, and unless he was put in a pivotal role like this without anyone doing ANY research on his powers, he has to be the one. The "speak ill of the dead" line could be the heroes covering for him, or it could be that he just bounced far away and hasn't been found yet, and they're assuming.

Aside from the Out-Of-Character Sue, I thought this was a fantastic issue, and I think unfortunately I'm going to be forced to pick up more of the tie-in issues than I wanted to.

Also - just a note for the people who were debating Bullseye as the new DD a few pages back, don't forget that he was a HUGE rival of Deadpool's, who I think has been confirmed as a "rogue hero hunter."


Speedball should live; if only to take the heat for his part in Stamford. but does anyone think it might be possible that this 'Masked Marvel' individual might really be Vance Astrovik? it would make more sense for it to be Baldwin but i could also see them trying to give Vance another codename (Justice is also being used by Josiah X).

[xmixmasterx]

Pretty new to comics but thought this was incredible. Captain America may do major damage throughout. Iron Man, what's he up to? Could have some intense enemies and battles here.

[firestarfan]

Speedball should live; if only to take the heat for his part in Stamford. but does anyone think it might be possible that this 'Masked Marvel' individual might really be Vance Astrovik? it would make more sense for it to be Baldwin but i could also see them trying to give Vance another codename (Justice is also being used by Josiah X).

Vance did go by "Marvel Boy" for a while, and Slott (or someone) confirmed that he will appear in She Hulk #8 -- but he would be an awfully strange choice for a character relaunch.

Although since the by-line on Robbie's first book was "The Masked Marvel" and there are little bubble things in the sketch, Marvel might be setting him up to be too obvious.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Not great, but not bad at all.

First off, one thing I really disagree with. Johnny's depiction was way off. He's something of a jerk, but he's also a loyal jerk, and I don't remember him ever having shown such disdain in regard to a former girlfriend. As such, his dissing of his apparently-dead former girlfriend and her team just plain seems out of character.

I also detest the way the New Warriors are portrayed as a bunch of lame amateurs, but that is sadly consistent with how they've been shown in Marvel for several years. It makes no sense, given their overall history, but it's been the general trend for a long time leading up to this. Pretty sad, really. I suspect Night Thrasher and Namorita will be one of those very rare things at Marvel - dead characters that remain dead.

Things I really liked:

Cap was portrayed right on, and in a righteously awesome manner. Except for the "potty mouth" comment. Steve's not quite that much a prig. But the rest was spot-on. No way Cap would go for this - it's too much an imposition of government power upon individuals.

The idea of an exclusion or compromise in the registration act for Dr. Strange - which I'm assuming is more or less something like "curtail your activites to the mystic mojo stuff, stay out of the public limelight, don't mess around with bank robberies and stuff like that and we'll leave you to do your thing" - is pretty brilliant. Not including something like this would pretty much be tantamount to presenting Tony, Reed and others as complete morons for supporting registration, as they know damn well what Steven is up to, that nobody else is even vaguely qualified for the job, and that there's no room in his arena for having to fill out forms and comply with OSHA regulatinos and such. It is reasonable to assume that the US government knows just enough about Steven to know that screwing with him is likely to both create an opponent they can't handle, and put the world in deadly peril, and Tony and Reed would certainly recommend he just be left alone. This also provides a way to more or less write Dr. Strange out of the story from here, which accounts for his non-presence while keeping the sides from being horribly imbalanced.

The art is quite nice.

Despite my disliking how John Storm was portrayed re: Nita's death, the choice of him as a target for retalliation makes good sense. He's very public, he's very brash, he's subject to being surprised by a sneak attack, he's not particularly competent in hand-to-hand combat, and his powers don't lend themselves well to him defending himself against normal people unless he wants to worsen the PR fiasco by putting a bunch of people on a burn unit.

So far, not bad at all. This is starting off much, much better than did INFINITE CRISIS. I'm interested in seeing where it will lead, though I admit from the outset I'm gonna be very unhappy if the registration stuff is the rule when all is said and done. Is it realistic? Sure. I just don't think that level of reality sits well with the fantastic tone of the Marvel Universe. As the set-up for a story, it's interesting, but as the status quo, it has too much potential to suck the fun out of things and instill unneeded angst across the entire line of books.

Grade: B

[Sabrinaset]

I sure aint arguing that supposedly "better" teams or heroes would have handled it any better , except for some omega level mutants and cosmic/godly guys . But i'm not so sure that other heroes would have jumped at their throat at such place like that , and especially not for such reason as ratings .

True enough, but how many times has the hero thought/stated during a fight scene "Too many civilians present, must take the fight elsewhere!"...it's almost a cliche. Even some supervillains think that way as well.

But when a hero smashes a villian against a SCHOOL BUS...clearly, someone isn't thinking too well. School Bus probably = kids nearby.

Johnny was tactless in the way he said it, but he was pretty much spot-on in calling them C-List. A-List heroes...heck, even B-List...would not have been so dumb.

[Haunt]

Vance did go by "Marvel Boy" for a while, and Slott (or someone) confirmed that he will appear in She Hulk #8 -- but he would be an awfully strange choice for a character relaunch.

Although since the by-line on Robbie's first book was "The Masked Marvel" and there are little bubble things in the sketch, Marvel might be setting him up to be too obvious.


but wouldn't Speedball be just as weird a choice for relaunch since Quesada apparently hates his guts? Vance has just come off of an engagement that went nowhere. he's going to need a new angle. not saying that it's him, of course.

[IamtheRock3]

dont think the warriors were that bad


Yea they could of flew him out if they had highers power

But read a lot of comics..heroes tend to fight in the pubilc tossing each other into building more often then they fly them into the desert

Hulk should have a 1000's of Deaths on his hit list


It seem this was one time a hero luck in not killing anyone ran out.

[Darkwind]

I was thrilled to read this and look forward to the ramifications! Being a long time Marvel reader, I enjoy the shake ups and revitalization of the M.U. and want a return to the days of continuity and hopefully this will help. At first I was surprised that Iron Man would be for the registration (having hid his identity for so long) and Captain America being against it (being publicly known) but seeing how it is shaping up and Cap being in defense of individual freedoms and respecting those who daily lay their lives on the line to keep the M.U. safe, I understand it. Having read the hell the Richards' went through in Fantastic Four when the government wanted to remove their kids to "protect" them - I am more surprised that they would line up in favor of this. Being a store owner I was glad to see it sell out on day of getting it and look forward to the series, its spin offs and the effects it will bring! As always. Make Mine Marvel!

[Neolucifer]

Hulk should have a 1000's of Deaths on his hit list


They actually attached a victims tolls to his name for his latest rampage ;)

But read a lot of comics..heroes tend to fight in the pubilc tossing each other into building more often then they fly them into the desert

The context and reasons behind those fight still remains quite different from the event shown in CW1 , especially in the mind of the MU's normal population .
All they got so far is a tape showing those guys going all" Yeah lets get them for the ratings!!" and throwing nitro into a bus right next to playing kids , and casually chatting :p .

[Will.S]

Anyone else think that Thing was particularly harsh on Hank Pym?

[torgo1873]

Wow, I liked this book.

I'm kinda bummed that so much of it was leaked beforehand, but readign the full issue made it hit just as hard had I not known. When Cap and Hill started giving commands to the SHIELD troops, I started shaking---gave me the chills.

I think what I'm gonna like about this book as that there isn't really a "wrong" side here, just two considered, passioned points of view on an issue.

By the way, anyway hear the NPR story on this the other day? If interested, it's an 8 and a half minutes long intereview with Joe Q. and Paul Jenkins:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5376903

[builttoill]

I think that it is kinda ludicrous to think that the entire country (especially club goers) would take out there rage (if they had any) on any member of the fantastic four. They are known throughout the planet as superheroes that never turn there back on anyone, and everyone already knows their real names. also not that i want to be tagged as a inconsiderate jerk, but when September 11 happened i don't think that everybody started attacking anybody that they could that might have been affiliated with the terrorists. I mean what redneck club is Johnny going to that he gets attacked just because he has powers? He isn't even a mutant witch might add to there prejudice. and I’m not trying to offend any club goers by saying that i don't think it to be very realistic that a bunch of clubbers who are looking for a good time are going to attack the first superhero just because they might have been watching CNN before they went clubbing. I’ve been to many clubs and seen many fights break out over stupid things but not once have i seen a guy that could easily take anyone in the club get beaten up by a bunch of people and no one steps in to stand up for the guy that is getting his head smashed. i mean i would be the guy that would stand up for him no matter what any superhero did cause if the human torch does get up he is going to flash fry everyone but me cause i took up for him.

[Haunt]

I think that it is kinda ludicrous to think that the entire country (especially club goers) would take out there rage (if they had any) on any member of the fantastic four. They are known throughout the planet as superheroes that never turn there back on anyone, and everyone already knows their real names. also not that i want to be tagged as a inconsiderate jerk, but when September 11 happened i don't think that everybody started attacking anybody that they could that might have been affiliated with the terrorists. I mean what redneck club is Johnny going to that he gets attacked just because he has powers? He isn't even a mutant witch might add to there prejudice. and I’m not trying to offend any club goers by saying that i don't think it to be very realistic that a bunch of clubbers who are looking for a good time are going to attack the first superhero just because they might have been watching CNN before they went clubbing. I’ve been to many clubs and seen many fights break out over stupid things but not once have i seen a guy that could easily take anyone in the club get beaten up by a bunch of people and no one steps in to stand up for the guy that is getting his head smashed. i mean i would be the guy that would stand up for him no matter what any superhero did cause if the human torch does get up he is going to flash fry everyone but me cause i took up for him.


as a chronic watcher of MTV's 'Real World' i can personally attest that club goers hate celebrities, especially people who they percieve as "lucky" to be celebrities. they weren't mad about Stamford. they were mad about Johnny Storm budging in front of them/his sense of entitlement. they used Stamford as the excuse to beat him up much like a handful used 911 to take out their aggressions on percieved muslims.

Anyone else think that Thing was particularly harsh on Hank Pym?

why? what did he say to him? i remember Thing being kind of mean to Wolverine, blaming he and the other mutants for making it hard on regular heroes.

[builttoill]

as a chronic watcher of MTV's 'Real World' i can personally attest that club goers hate celebrities, especially people who they percieve as "lucky" to be celebrities. they weren't mad about Stamford. they were mad about Johnny Storm budging in front of them/his sense of entitlement. they used Stamford as the excuse to beat him up much like a handful used 911 to take out their aggressions on percieved muslims.

that may be true but i find it hard to belive that no one stood up for him i meen i was at the club the night that that pompus prick Danny got his face messed up on the real world Austin (i just moved from Austin) and i know that the entire town eather wanted to "get with" or fight the cast of the real world but even that night there were people trying to stick up for the real world guy for one reason or another, i find it hard to believe that no one would stick up for a guy who could take anyone in the club

[torgo1873]

I think that it is kinda ludicrous to think that the entire country (especially club goers) would take out there rage (if they had any) on any member of the fantastic four. They are known throughout the planet as superheroes that never turn there back on anyone, and everyone already knows their real names. also not that i want to be tagged as a inconsiderate jerk, but when September 11 happened i don't think that everybody started attacking anybody that they could that might have been affiliated with the terrorists. I mean what redneck club is Johnny going to that he gets attacked just because he has powers? He isn't even a mutant witch might add to there prejudice. and I’m not trying to offend any club goers by saying that i don't think it to be very realistic that a bunch of clubbers who are looking for a good time are going to attack the first superhero just because they might have been watching CNN before they went clubbing. I’ve been to many clubs and seen many fights break out over stupid things but not once have i seen a guy that could easily take anyone in the club get beaten up by a bunch of people and no one steps in to stand up for the guy that is getting his head smashed. i mean i would be the guy that would stand up for him no matter what any superhero did cause if the human torch does get up he is going to flash fry everyone but me cause i took up for him.

If you think Johnny'd do that, you need to read up on him more, methinks ;)

Seriously, you'd take up for him...because you wouldn't want him frying you...?

[builttoill]

If you think Johnny'd do that, you need to read up on him more, methinks ;)

Seriously, you'd take up for him...because you wouldn't want him frying you...?

i don't think that he would (in fact im almost %100 certain he wouldn't) i just said he could (or if i didn't i meant to) (i just checked i did say he would sorry i love johnny he wouldn't do that im sorry for dragging your name through the dirt Mr. Storm)

[Will.S]

why? what did he say to him? i remember Thing being kind of mean to Wolverine, blaming he and the other mutants for making it hard on regular heroes.
I was thinking that he was specifically calling Hank Pym a moron given his stance as being pro-registration and giving up the masks. I mean, both Thing and Wolverine seem to be anti-registration but maybe I'm just reading into that piece of dialogue wrong.

[Ravenheart]

I was thinking that he was specifically calling Hank Pym a moron given his stance as being pro-registration and giving up the masks. I mean, both Thing and Wolverine seem to be anti-registration but maybe I'm just reading into that piece of dialogue wrong.


I thought he was talking to Pym as well.The panel is a little confusing.He could have been talking to Wolverine or Pym.

[roundman]

A+

Excellent, excellent comic. I wasn't even going to bother with this crossover, but the my comic shop owner talked me into buying this. Now I'm hooked.

Everything about this issue was great: the art, the dialogue, the pacing. Can't wait for another installment!

[builttoill]

I thought he was talking to Pym as well.The panel is a little confusing.He could have been talking to Wolverine or Pym.
sounds like someone wants to wear a stupid mask again, better watch what you say around wolverine Mr. Thing

[Haunt]

I thought he was talking to Pym as well.The panel is a little confusing.He could have been talking to Wolverine or Pym.


given the history between the respective characters, it's much more likely that he was talking to Wolverine (the guy who slashed his face up, killed a number of SHIELD agents/Northstar, & is considered part of the mutant menace). Pym is already working with the government.

[Neolucifer]

when September 11 happened i don't think that everybody started attacking anybody that they could that might have been affiliated with the terrorists.

A few beaten up middle eastern guys , and some shops might disagree with you .

I think that it is kinda ludicrous to think that the entire country (especially club goers) would take out there rage (if they had any) on any member of the fantastic four.

When was it stated that its everyone ? It just a bunch of clubbers angry to see johnny and the mob spirit did the rest . It actually happens even more easily than depicted in Civil War .
I'm even surprised that Johnny had the time to name the NW as c listers , before getting hit .

I’ve been to many clubs and seen many fights break out over stupid things but not once have i seen a guy that could easily take anyone in the club get beaten up by a bunch of people and no one steps in to stand up for the guy that is getting his head smashed.
.
I've yet to see normal people who disagrees getting right in front of an angry mob . They'd just flee and call the cops . It was way beyond some drunks fights .

[Will.S]

given the history between the respective characters, it's much more likely that he was talking to Wolverine (the guy who slashed his face up, killed a number of SHIELD agents/Northstar, & is considered part of the mutant menace). Pym is already working with the government.

You have a good point by bringing up the the Enemy of the State stuff (which is also mentioned later) but I'm still iffy on who Thing is referring to because he could be calling Wolverine a moron for EOTS or Hank for siding with the government and being pro.

[Neolucifer]

I'm still iffy on who Thing is referring to because he could be calling Wolverine a moron for EOTS or Hank for siding with the government and being pro.

Imo its quite clear that he was answering to Wolverine's " Because the world aint so nice outside of your ivory tower bub"

Wolverine must have the worst rap sheet so far , multiple times murderer , and the whole EOTS thing .
he is just lashing out though , and it doesnt necessarily shows where he is siding about the matter .

[Haunt]

You have a good point by bringing up the the Enemy of the State stuff (which is also mentioned later) but I'm still iffy on who Thing is referring to because he could be calling Wolverine a moron for EOTS or Hank for siding with the government and being pro.


well my educated guess is that Thing is going to side with Reed. and we already know that Reed is pro-registration/that Johnny and Sue are the FF'ers leaving.

[twilight]

We all know how it starts... with the New Warriors. (Speedball is confirmed as dead, btw, later on in the issue.)

No!

I'll get you for this Mark and Steve.

[spideyguy0]

Maybe this has been answered but I'm not reading through 15 pages + about 5 other threads. How do they explain Tony switching sides from the ASM prequel to CW #1?

[Haunt]

No!

I'll get you for this Mark and Steve.


no body = no death

[Will.S]

Maybe this has been answered but I'm not reading through 15 pages + about 5 other threads. How do they explain Tony switching sides from the ASM prequel to CW #1?
It's basically all in the Illuminati Special. Amazing Spider-Man takes place after that with Tony trying something of a last ditch effort to quell it peacefully before the shit hits the fan.

[twilight]

no body = no death

I admit I don't know everything about the character but wouldn't it be impossible to kill Speedball with an explosion?

[builttoill]

A few beaten up middle eastern guys , and some shops might disagree with you .


When was it stated that its everyone ? It just a bunch of clubbers angry to see johnny and the mob spirit did the rest . It actually happens even more easily than depicted in Civil War .
I'm even surprised that Johnny had the time to name the NW as c listers , before getting hit .


.
I've yet to see normal people who disagrees getting right in front of an angry mob . They'd just flee and call the cops . It was way beyond some drunks fights .


I understand that people were harassed after September 11, but come on that is hardly going to happen at a NY night club. And I’m sorry but i think that you need to revaluate your life if you are thinking about hitting a guy with a beer bottle that can burst into flames at will. I agree that fights occur easily at night clubs but that is the kind of thing that happens because of girls or spilt drinks not because of current affairs. and as far as sticking up for people who are getting beat up, i can say from experience that it does happen at clubs maybe not on the street during a protest or on a college campus but at clubs it does happen. I’m not bashing CW here i loved it all i just found that at that instance it wasn't very believable, i can't wait for issue #2.

[Neolucifer]

I understand that people were harassed after September 11, but come on that is hardly going to happen at a NY night club. And I’m sorry but i think that you need to revaluate your life if you are thinking about hitting a guy with a beer bottle that can burst into flames at will. I agree that fights occur easily at night clubs but that is the kind of thing that happens because of girls or spilt drinks not because of current affairs. and as far as sticking up for people who are getting beat up, i can say from experience that it does happen at clubs maybe not on the street during a protest or on a college campus but at clubs it does happen. I’m not bashing CW here i loved it all i just found that at that instance it wasn't very believable, i can't wait for issue #2.

Te proper word is still beaten , not harassed ;) .
But 9/11 and USA aside , this would be all fine and dandy , if that kind of stuff actually didnt happened already in the real world .. hell even this year ...
A few months ago we had some kind of riots and those very kind of stupid mob that walk upon people for basically no reason . And no stupidity doesnt suddenly walk away at the doorstep of a nightclub . And no , no one smart would stick their nose in front of many people ganging up like that . Again that kind of behavior is nothing like fights between some drunk people . Calling the cops now is a given .

I dont see how CW could be any more real for that matter .

[Haunt]

I admit I don't know everything about the character but wouldn't it be impossible to kill Speedball with an explosion?


that's what i'm saying. :)

[ultramandingo]

so the watcher shows up for the first issue of "civil war" but hes a no show for " house of bendis" ( or "ultimate 6" or avengers dissed" or "secrete war") . so he can see in to the future and sees this this wont suck?

[Neolucifer]

come on Uatu was too decompressed for HoM :D

[sephirothskiller]

Te proper word is still beaten , not harassed ;) .
But 9/11 and USA aside , this would be all fine and dandy , if that kind of stuff actually didnt happened already in the real world .. hell even this year ...
A few months ago we had some kind of riots and those very kind of stupid mob that walk upon people for basically no reason . And no stupidity doesnt suddenly walk away at the doorstep of a nightclub . And no , no one smart would stick their nose in front of many people ganging up like that . Again that kind of behavior is nothing like fights between some drunk people . Calling the cops now is a given .

I dont see how CW could be any more real for that matter .

Well sometimes taking a stand against a bigger power works. Boris Yeltsin stood on top of a tank pointed at him and stared down the entire (well, alot of it) Soviet Red Army. At this point the USSR pretty much blinked out of existance.

And btw, I agree, Speedball isn't dead, but he might be laying low... I know I would if I made that mistake.

I wanna see how Cap/Luke Cage/Wolvie are gonna stand against Iron Man/Ms. Marvel/etc Only Strange seems to have any high power on the non-registration side. Not thate Cap and Wolvie are cream puffs, what with their apparent "SHIELD B GONE" Resistance sprays!!

[Haunt]

so the watcher shows up for the first issue of "civil war" but hes a no show for " house of bendis" ( or "ultimate 6" or avengers dissed" or "secrete war") . so he can see in to the future and sees this this wont suck?


the Watcher's not a big fan of Bendis' writing.

[Neolucifer]

the Watcher's not a big fan of decompression or Bendis' writing.

Nah as a big talking head , he's just jealous that Bendis can do it with smaller ones .

[Haunt]

Nah as a big talking head , he's just jealous that Bendis can do it with smaller ones .

LOL! i heard that the Watcher shaved his head just to look like the guy. :D

[builttoill]

The proper word is still beaten , not harassed ;) .
But 9/11 and USA aside , this would be all fine and dandy , if that kind of stuff actually didnt happened already in the real world .. hell even this year ...
A few months ago we had some kind of riots and those very kind of stupid mob that walk upon people for basically no reason . And no stupidity doesnt suddenly walk away at the doorstep of a nightclub . And no , no one smart would stick their nose in front of many people ganging up like that . Again that kind of behavior is nothing like fights between some drunk people . Calling the cops now is a given .

I dont see how CW could be any more real for that matter .

Man i don't want to get into an argument about what happened in America after September 11, i know what happened i was there. And how many bar fights have you been in to know that people don't stick up for the underdog, those kinds of clubs that Johnny was at especially. The people are mainly there for 2 reasons: to be seen and to get laid. The underdog often gets stuck up for cause guy want to impress girls. and the people that beat Johnny up were not drunk they were outside the bar (i know you will argue that they could have gotten drunk before they came to the club or at another club but that’s a lot of reading into the background characters don't you think) in conclusion i challenge anyone to bring up a time that there was a bar fight (nay an outside the bar fight before people were drunk) in which current affairs were brought into it as a reason to pick a fight. Those were stone sober kids that were only out for a fight and wouldn't have gone to a hip club they would go to a biker bar

[Jack]

I admit I don't know everything about the character but wouldn't it be impossible to kill Speedball with an explosion?
In the original New Warriors series, it was a Big Deal when Speedball first got hurt, because up until then nothing they'd faced had managed to do it. And it didn't happen in the first few issues either, it was quite a way in.

And this is a team who got together to fight Terrax. Okay, a weakened Terrax with an exploitable weakness, but Terrax all the same. EDIT - oh, and when Terrax returned (at full power) Speedball was the only New Warrior to actually hurt him.

[Kevinroc]

In the original New Warriors series, it was a Big Deal when Speedball first got hurt, because up until then nothing they'd faced had managed to do it. And it didn't happen in the first few issues either, it was quite a way in.

And this is a team who got together to fight Terrax. Okay, a weakened Terrax with an exploitable weakness, but Terrax all the same. EDIT - oh, and when Terrax returned (at full power) Speedball was the only New Warrior to actually hurt him.

But how many of those New Warriors that were at The Terrax fight were at the fight in Civil War #1?

[steve2275]

Cappy: "Just keep flying, son -- and watch that potty mouth."

That and making sure the pilot landed the plane safely and without damage, and taking him for hamburgers and fries afterwards. Gotta love ole Captain America. Just awesome. :)
then he bought the dude lunch

[luxshine]

But how many of those New Warriors that were at The Terrax fight were at the fight in Civil War #1?

Speedball.

Who as Jack said, was the only one who could hurt Terrax when Terrax came back at full power.

(Ok. Night Trasher and Namorita were there too. And Namorita was the one who started the fight with Terrax the first time around, and the one that held her ground the most)

[Tony Starkz]

More Yellowjacket please.It's about time Hank got some face time in the 616 MU.

[Zombienorthstar]

More Yellowjacket please.It's about time Hank got some face time in the 616 MU.


Agreed


I think Ms Marvel and he comprise Iron Mans group post Civil War...

[UniqueFrequency]

pretty good issue. i liked the reactions that the heroes and that lady in the church had. very believable.

i also really liked Iceman's appearance. good to see him around.

and Cap really kicked ass. Millar is the right person to write this series!

[Neolucifer]

Man i don't want to get into an argument about what happened in America after September 11, i know what happened i was there. And how many bar fights have you been in to know that people don't stick up for the underdog, those kinds of clubs that Johnny was at especially. The people are mainly there for 2 reasons: to be seen and to get laid. The underdog often gets stuck up for cause guy want to impress girls. and the people that beat Johnny up were not drunk they were outside the bar (i know you will argue that they could have gotten drunk before they came to the club or at another club but that’s a lot of reading into the background characters don't you think) in conclusion i challenge anyone to bring up a time that there was a bar fight (nay an outside the bar fight before people were drunk) in which current affairs were brought into it as a reason to pick a fight. Those were stone sober kids that were only out for a fight and wouldn't have gone to a hip club they would go to a biker bar

Except that for more than HALF of the post i wasnt talking about 9/11 and USA (btw i DO know midle westerners that unlucky were there at the moment , and they were more than "harassed").

Anyway again in that post i was mentioned those recent riots we had (in France) . Again iwasnt even talking about a bar fight . I repeated that over and over ..
Why are you even talking about drunk or sober people ? This was something like a mob beating . I only brought up clubs cause you were oblivious that this could even happen at or outside clubs . Its just morons out for blood , assaulting randomly because they thought "rich guys were having fun" while they were suffering (and here in CW attacking Johnny just because he ws a superhero) . You keep saying its irrealistic , when i'm telling you that it is , when it even happened only a few months ago .
Please do read my posts before answering .

[Zombienorthstar]

I understand that people were harassed after September 11, but come on that is hardly going to happen at a NY night club. .


How many muslim men do you know frequent new york clubs?
Plus Johnny isnt just a random hero...hes a famous hero...making him the equivalent if we're maintaing the muslim extremist comparison of a public figure within Osama Bin Ladens group...

thats why its different...and the analogy doesnt work

Johnny is famous...and i feel a totally believable target for violence afterwards.

[builttoill]

Except that for more than HALF of the post i wasnt talking about 9/11 and USA (btw i DO know midle westerners that unlucky were there at the moment , and they were more than "harassed").

Anyway again in that post i was mentioned those recent riots we had (in France) . Again iwasnt even talking about a bar fight . I repeated that over and over ..
Why are you even talking about drunk or sober people ? This was something like a mob beating . I only brought up clubs cause you were oblivious that this could even happen at or outside clubs . Its just morons out for blood , assaulting randomly because they thought "rich guys were having fun" while they were suffering (and here in CW attacking Johnny just because he ws a superhero) . You keep saying its irrealistic , when i'm telling you that it is , when it even happened only a few months ago .
Please do read my posts before answering .


Dude you are a ridiculous joke and i am done having this conversation with you, it is slowly moving away from comic books and into the real world, which i don't want to have a conversation about. I’m not going to change your mind and you are not going to change mine so let’s just drop it. And for the record i know that there were people beaten and not harassed that was an unfortunate choice of words, i didn't know that was still an issue. and I’m not quite sure what your stance is on what happened if you think it is comparable to riots in France (which are about labor laws and Algerians being mistreated for years) or the BEATINGS after 9/11 but ask those people that you know that suffered them, they are nothing compared to a bar fight.


Again that kind of behavior is nothing like fights between some drunk people .

And this is why i brought up drunk or soberness i do read your posts do you read the news paper.

[builttoill]

How many muslim men do you know frequent new york clubs?
Plus Johnny isnt just a random hero...hes a famous hero...making him the equivalent if we're maintaing the muslim extremist comparison of a public figure within Osama Bin Ladens group...

thats why its different...and the analogy doesnt work

Johnny is famous...and i feel a totally believable target for violence afterwards.

i agree that he might be a target of violence i just don't think that club goers would attack him outside of a club. the air outside of a club is not generally that tense they might have been pissed after he went in and if they saw him outside afterward they might start up a fight but all I’m saying is that it escalated pretty quickly for people that were supposedly there to dance and not fight. And you are right the analogy doesn't work that was only thrown in there because of a previous argument i was having.

[Neolucifer]

Dude you are a ridiculous joke and i am done having this conversation with you, it is slowly moving away from comic books and into the real world, which i don't want to have a conversation about. I’m not going to change your mind and you are not going to change mine so let’s just drop it. And for the record i know that there were people beaten and not harassed that was an unfortunate choice of words, i didn't know that was still an issue. and I’m not quite sure what your stance is on what happened if you think it is comparable to riots in France (which are about labor laws and Algerians being mistreated for years) or the BEATINGS after 9/11 but ask those people that you know that suffered them, they are nothing compared to a bar fight.


Then we agree to be done . First chill out about the harassed thing , i was mostly joking about it , harassed wasnt so much of an innapropriate word . And i only mentioned a few people getting beaten .
2 They got not much in coming with each other . I brought up a real event that happened during the french riots , to answer part of your post that mentioned the scene with johnny being unrealistic .
3 . Like you yourself quoted i mentioned it NOT being a simple brawl with drunk people . Imo just was just a case of people turning into a lynching mob , not just your casual night club or bar fight .

Oh also just for the sake of information , what we had in france didnt have much to do with Algerians .

The trigger was the death of Three of the teenagers of Malian , Tunisian and Turkish kurd origins , electrocuted by a transformer in the electric substation while being chased by overzealous cops . Of course it was only the trigger , followed by quite some xenophobic comments from a few politics , the unrest about french people of middle east but also from other origins (why the hell did i kept saying middle westerners ? lol) about unemployement and indeed their treatment .

Edit : it seems that only 2 of the young guys died .


i agree that he might be a target of violence i just don't think that club goers would attack him outside of a club. the air outside of a club is not generally that tense they might have been pissed after he went in and if they saw him outside afterward they might start up a fight but all I’m saying is that it escalated pretty quickly for people that were supposedly there to dance and not fight.

See this is the part where i dont agree , and why i brought up those ,maybe unfit to you , examples . With some kind of tension around , it can precisely explode that way . During the french riots , and before curfew was in place .. Some of us still continued our daily lives as usual and went to club . There are of course some people that probably were out for blood anyway .. but most people were there for fun . Yet with the proper incitation , it can turn sour quite quickly and led to some fights inside and outside of clubs as well .

[Kevinroc]

Speedball.

Who as Jack said, was the only one who could hurt Terrax when Terrax came back at full power.

(Ok. Night Trasher and Namorita were there too. And Namorita was the one who started the fight with Terrax the first time around, and the one that held her ground the most)

And how many weren't there?

That's the point of the question, really.

[Dennis K]

Despite my protestations to the contrary, my curiosity got the better of me, and I read Civil War #1 at my LCS, and as much as it pains me to say it, I enjoyed it. I didn't buy it, but I enjoyed it.

[ocelotrevs]

Well. What too say. It was awesome. Really. It was awesome.
I like that they got the Young Avengers in there as well, and Patriot took the lead in saying his piece.
Captain America, what to say about the man. I didn't like Commander Hill trying it on, just because he didn't agree with them. But this looks like a good set up.

I'd really love them to try and mess with Doctor Strange as well, and they should dedicate an issue just to show what happens, and too show how great the good doctor is.

I'd think that Johnny Storm would be a legitmate target for anti hero-ness.
He's a major player, who's been involved in a lot of destruction of New York, and him still having some leyway could've been seen as a pisstake.

Also why did it take both Luke Cage and Thing to lift a chimney stack, unless I'm mistaken both of these guys are pushhing class 60.