Doomsday origins?

[Citizen V]

Doing some research i came upon small storyline change with Superman and Doomsday. In the arc, panic in the sky, where Superman and all the JLA fight Brainiac up on his ship. At the end of the arc, Brainaic pulls a lever and Doomsday is launched from his ship, in a little box heading for earth. Even Wizard hailed this as the first apearance of Doomsday, as a Doomsday weapon created by Brainiac because Superman defeated him

Now, later they say that doomsday was created on the planet Krypton millions of years ago by that group of people though genetic manipulation and killing and reviving him over and over again.

So why did they change his origins at the drop of a hat? And if that wasn't doomsday now that he dropped out of his ship, what was it?? My comic information is a bit outdated,so exeplenations would help.

[SuperManny]

So why did they change his origins at the drop of a hat? And if that wasn't doomsday now that he dropped out of his ship, what was it?? My comic information is a bit outdated,so exeplenations would help.

The origins were never changed; I have heard the same theory, but I think the person to ask about that is Dan Jurgens or Eddie Berganza himself. I believe that box was explained eventually, but I wouldn't doubt if that was the preliminary first scene as to how Doomsday arrived on Earth (before Superman/Doomsday: Hunter/Prey was released)

Mind you, Doomsday was supposed to be this escaped monster from an alien mental asylum.....before the press got a wind of that, published the idea, and DC had a lot of complaints from special groups who represent the mentally incapacitated in media.

Ah well, let's see how he works out in Infinite Crisis!

[filthysize]

I like the JLU version better. :|

[devinost]

With Doomsday back I was wondering how long DC could keep Superman dead, if they killed him again. I don't think they could go a year with him dead :mad:

[SuperManny]

With Doomsday back I was wondering how long DC could keep Superman dead, if they killed him again. I don't think they could go a year with him dead :mad:

Doomsday is not necessarily back. He's been around, just frequently incapacitated. DC was able to keep Superman "dead" for approximately a year last time, I don't think they will repeat this feat for the sake of unoriginality.....

If anything, we could see Doomsday bite the big one PERMANENTLY in the next issue of Infinite Crisis!

[DracoMalfoy]

I doubt it. Imperiux himself supposedly killed DD...and he came back. They're not going to get rid of such an essential character to Supeman mythos.

[SuperManny]

They're not going to get rid of such an essential character to Supeman mythos.

There's a lot of debate going around of how 'essential' Doomsday contributes to the mythos. Granted, he can probably embody Superman's death......but besides being a cool looking powerhouse, there's not much else to him. I've seen many people here argue about just how much worth Doomsday is to the Post-Birthright Superman storyline.

Any opinions on how much Doomsday's worth to the Superman rogues gallery? :confused:

[IPW]

Doing some research i came upon small storyline change with Superman and Doomsday. In the arc, panic in the sky, where Superman and all the JLA fight Brainiac up on his ship. At the end of the arc, Brainaic pulls a lever and Doomsday is launched from his ship, in a little box heading for earth. Even Wizard hailed this as the first apearance of Doomsday, as a Doomsday weapon created by Brainiac because Superman defeated him


The Doomsday device in Panic in the Sky storyline was not Doomsday, the character.

[NotSuper]

Any opinions on how much Doomsday's worth to the Superman rogues gallery? :confused:
I don't think he has much worth at all. He was never a good villain--he was just a plot device to kill Superman. Beyond his debut and perhaps a rematch with Superman he has no real use as a character. It'd be cool if he was destroyed in some kind of anti-matter wave--nothing survives those.

[stealthwise]

I like the JLU version better. :|

Yeah? What was that one??

[IPW]

Yeah? What was that one??

He was a clone of Superman, altered and conditioned by Cadmas to kill Superman.

You can watch the episode Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2nF8TIkqes&search=JLU)

[filthysize]

He was a clone of Superman, altered and conditioned by Cadmas to kill Superman.

You can watch the episode Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2nF8TIkqes&search=JLU)

Cool, that's his origin episode.

But what I really like is his first ever appearance in the episode "A Better World". Doomsday was in it for a total of 5 minutes. They just needed some random villain for the alternate dimension Superman to lobotomize, and Doomsday appeared out of nowhere with no explanation of who he was or what he was. Superman just heat visioned his brain and that was it.

I thought it was kind of a neat jab on the whole "Death of Superman" gimmick and why Doomsday was created by DC.

[stealthwise]

He was a clone of Superman, altered and conditioned by Cadmas to kill Superman.

You can watch the episode Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2nF8TIkqes&search=JLU)

Cool, thanks!

[ShaggyB]

I don't think he has much worth at all. He was never a good villain--he was just a plot device to kill Superman. Beyond his debut and perhaps a rematch with Superman he has no real use as a character. It'd be cool if he was destroyed in some kind of anti-matter wave--nothing survives those.

except Pariah, who dies by bullets in guns fired by alex's of the earth 3 variaty.

[phantom1592]

except Pariah, who dies by bullets in guns fired by alex's of the earth 3 variaty.


I did hear some interesting reasoning behind that. According to an Article between Wizard and the IC staff. Pariah's power to pop between the multiple earths. If/when he died, he just materialized in the next earth.

THERE were no more Earths for him to go to. When Alex shot him, he had nowhere to go to.

SInce I never saw a post Crisis appearance by him, the logic is at least sound.

[phantom1592]

Any opinions on how much Doomsday's worth to the Superman rogues gallery? :confused:


First of all He's a waste as a Superman Rogue. He hates EVERYONE. The fact that he killed superman was that he was in the way. It could have just as easily been GL or Captain Marvel.

I personally think they should have left him dead the first time. He was a massive threat, and every time you put him down (easier and easier) it makes him less of a threat. Like Carnage in Spiderman. He's a joke now. Spidey drops him in one punch.

The only difference is that I really like what they did with him in the VIllians united Special. When the Heroes look at him all they see is a destroyed league and a coffin with a cape on it.

He did do what no other villian was capable of. and if they use him as the "reminder" than he may have use.

somehow i doubt it.:)

[NotSuper]

But what I really like is his first ever appearance in the episode "A Better World". Doomsday was in it for a total of 5 minutes. They just needed some random villain for the alternate dimension Superman to lobotomize, and Doomsday appeared out of nowhere with no explanation of who he was or what he was. Superman just heat visioned his brain and that was it.

I thought it was kind of a neat jab on the whole "Death of Superman" gimmick and why Doomsday was created by DC.
The way they did that was indeed great. Doomsday shows up (with no explanation), starts trashing stuff, and the Justice Lord Superman lobotomizes him.

Additionally, they prevented anyone else from doing an animated "Death of Superman" by having the storyline without Doomsday or with Superman actually dying. I love that.

[NotSuper]

I like the JLU version better. :|
Agreed. His origin certainly makes more sense.

[filthysize]

First of all He's a waste as a Superman Rogue. He hates EVERYONE. The fact that he killed superman was that he was in the way. It could have just as easily been GL or Captain Marvel.

Well, that's only partly true. He was attracted specifically to Superman because he's Kryptonian.

But I agree that he should have been left dead. The guy's nothing more than a plot device. There's very little you can do with a brute character like that.

[Sean Whitmore]

The Doomsday device in Panic in the Sky storyline was not Doomsday, the character.


Yeah, didn't Brainiac's device do something right after "Panic" ended? I thought it signaled some scavenger swarm to come to Earth and pick it clean.


There's a lot of debate going around of how 'essential' Doomsday contributes to the mythos. Granted, he can probably embody Superman's death......but besides being a cool looking powerhouse, there's not much else to him.


Currently, I don't think he's very essential at all, besides acting as the DCU version of the Juggernaut. Before he was so powered-down, he was the opponent who could realistically kill Superman in any given confrontation, putting the lie to the idea that he's less brave than other heroes because he can't be hurt.


SEAN

[Brian Cronin]

Yeah, the doomsday device plot was resolved right after that storyline.

Wizard just didn't read the Superman titles (like everyone else), so they didn't know that.

-Brian

[Sean Whitmore]

That's the spirit, Brian! Never let a thread die! ;)


SEAN

[Brian Cronin]

I just happened to know about this topic. :)

And I am SO using this for a future installment of Urban Legends Revealed!

-Brian

[Sean Whitmore]

Two birds with one stone, awesome!


SEAN

[Captain Smith]

Doomsday was NOTa kryptonian. He was a baby from somewhere else that was unspecificed. He was brought to Krypton to be experimented on by that alien scientist. However, he has no love for Krypton, given his experience there.

However, I no long can take him seriously. He is a plot device that ended up wearing Superman underoos.

He was overused so much after his first interactions with Superman that his sense of almost unbeatable menace is gone. Too bad.

[phantom1592]

However, I no long can take him seriously. He is a plot device that ended up wearing Superman underoos.

He was overused so much after his first interactions with Superman that his sense of almost unbeatable menace is gone. Too bad.


He was interesting for only THREE appearances

#1 his first where he killed Superman

#2 Hunter/Prey where he evolved past Superman and Supes had to face his fear to meet it.

#3 when Doomsdays body was possessed by Brainiac. Unstoppable monster with super human intelligence.


any thing past that and it was really dumb. He was too big of threat to become a recurring villian.

[Damo]

SInce I never saw a post Crisis appearance by him, the logic is at least sound.
Alas, no. Just because you never saw him post Crisis doesn't mean that other people didn't see him. He did appear post crisis, and his power continued to save him from death. The only explanation is that Alex's bullets were made from Didioium.

[dupersuper]

In War of the Gods, Phobos drove Superman nuts, and he beat on Pariah quite a bit. Supes of course managed to break free of the mental control before killing him, though Pariah was hoping he wouldn't. He was hoping an out of control Supes would be enough to kill him...being immortal and cursed to be called to events of destruction and death. I guess this gun was more powerful than Superman...? I agree; it stinks of Didio.

[Dussan]

I like the JLU version better. :|

JLU did everything better. Which is sad for DC.

[filthysize]

Doomsday was NOTa kryptonian. He was a baby from somewhere else that was unspecificed. He was brought to Krypton to be experimented on by that alien scientist. However, he has no love for Krypton, given his experience there.

If you're referring to my post, I meant that Superman was Kryptonian.

Doomsday has hatred specifically for Supes because he could sense that Supes is from Krypton, for the reasons you stated. It's not just because Superman was "in his way".

[Sean Whitmore]

JLU did everything better. Which is sad for DC.


To be fair, JLU had the benefit of hindsight. They didn't have to make anything from whole cloth.


SEAN

[David Atkins]

I love Doomsday as the big, all-but-mindless destroyer that he was when he first debuted to kill Superman. I HATE his Kryptonian origins, and the whole 'He hates Superman for being Kryptonian/sees him as his creator, Berton' concept. Throughout the Death of Superman storyline, Doomsday never sought Superman out. Superman sought HIM out and Doomsday fought him simply because, as another poster said, Superman was in the way.

Hunter/Prey was a halfway decent story, but really dropped the ball on Doomsday's origins as far as I'm concerned.

If one forgets the crappy 'Imperiex destroyed Doomsday on one page, in one panel' storyline, and the even crappier 'Doomsday evolved into a thinking being that could speak and lost to Superman because he was suddenly smart enough to know that he couldn't win after all,' then Doomsday can remain a worthwhile part of Superman's 'Rogues Gallery.' Personally, as the Death of Superman is one of my favorite stories of all time, I would LOVE to see Doomsday recognized as such and handled in a better manner than he has been since the Death.

[dancj]

Hunter/Prey was a halfway decent story, but really dropped the ball on Doomsday's origins as far as I'm concerned.

Funny - I thought Doomsday's origin was that story's one redeeming feature

[Andy S.]

I also liked the Hunter/Prey story overall. But I think that as a villian, his fangs are somewhat dull. We've seen him beaten by Superman (most recently in IC #7) and after all that his presence doesn't really carry the weight that it used to. However, I don't see any reason to permanently get rid of him, either.

[David Atkins]

Funny - I thought Doomsday's origin was that story's one redeeming feature

Sorry, but trying to take in the entire 'Doomsday from Krypton' scenario was only slightly less painful than pounding my head against a brick wall. It was nothing more than a cheap ploy, falling back on an old and idiotic idea that a villain's history should mirror or in some way be tied into the hero's, by writers that had no idea what to do with the character.

[Sizzle]

I have not read any Doomsday behind Hunter Prey and IC I guess. I liked his original premise. Maybe to keep him relevant, he should of just going around killing people to fix continuity instead of the IC story and retcon punches. See now, they could have him go on a rampage, beat Bart Allen back into a teenager, punch Cassandra back into a hero, kill Jason Todd, Kathy Kane, Devin Grayson, pretty much the answer to all problems. The Chuck Norris of the DCU.

[dancj]

Sorry, but trying to take in the entire 'Doomsday from Krypton' scenario was only slightly less painful than pounding my head against a brick wall. It was nothing more than a cheap ploy, falling back on an old and idiotic idea that a villain's history should mirror or in some way be tied into the hero's, by writers that had no idea what to do with the character.

I didn't care much for the Krypton part, but I thought the mothod they used to create Doomsday was very clever

[David Atkins]

I have not read any Doomsday behind Hunter Prey and IC I guess. I liked his original premise. Maybe to keep him relevant, he should of just going around killing people to fix continuity instead of the IC story and retcon punches. See now, they could have him go on a rampage, beat Bart Allen back into a teenager, punch Cassandra back into a hero, kill Jason Todd, Kathy Kane, Devin Grayson, pretty much the answer to all problems. The Chuck Norris of the DCU.

*LMAO* That idea is the epitome of awesomness.

I didn't care much for the Krypton part, but I thought the mothod they used to create Doomsday was very clever

Okay, granted, that much worked rather well. But they totally killed it with the Kryptonian connection. Not to mention the 'Doomsday hates Superman/Sees him as Berton/Senses and hunts down the greatest threat to his survival' crap.

[Sean Whitmore]

I didn't care much for the Krypton part, but I thought the mothod they used to create Doomsday was very clever


Yeah, I can't believe Apocalypse over at Marvel never had this idea. Fits right into his stupid idelogy. :)


SEAN

[jaguarshark]

Speaking of 'Hunter/Prey', is the Doomsday Omnibus worth picking up? I had the first issue of 'Hunter/Prey' when I was a kid, and I don't remember hating it. So, you know, that's something. Are the stories particularly continuity-heavy, outside of the obvious 'Death of Superman' references?

[Sean Whitmore]

Speaking of 'Hunter/Prey', is the Doomsday Omnibus worth picking up? I had the first issue of 'Hunter/Prey' when I was a kid, and I don't remember hating it. So, you know, that's something. Are the stories particularly continuity-heavy, outside of the obvious 'Death of Superman' references?


I don't remember Hunter/Prey being particularly continuity-heavy. It featured the JLA of the time (only in cameo), Darkseid, the Cyborg, and Waverider, so if you know all of them, you know all you need.

Same with the sequel. All you have to know there is Brainiac used to be alive (as in not a robot) and a telepath.


SEAN

[jaguarshark]

Cool. I grew up with 90s continuity, so it shouldn't be a problem anyway. I just didn't want to read anything too drenched in continuity from that time, in case I had to wrack my brain and get past all the neo-Silver Age stuff we've been getting lately. Thanks for the tip!