Knightfall: Good Story?

[CURSD BLADE]

I never read Knightfall, but I am quite curious about it. I know it is heavily controversial, and debuted Bane as a villain. I was just wondering if the story itself was actually good, and if it is worth buying the TPBs.

[GrimmPimp]

I read Dennis O Neals novilizarion and I loved it

[Damo]

Get it. It's flawed, and some parts have aged better than others, but overall good.

[Leon Thomas]

Still a good story. Worth a look.

[Generic Eric]

Knightfall is a pretty cool story.There are 4 parts to the story.pt. 1 is Knightfall, chronicling the fall of Batman and is collected in vol 1 & 2 of the tpbs. pt. 2 is called Knightsquest: the crusade and chronicles the adventures of batman's replacement azreal as he gets aquanted to his role as Batman and slowly loses his mind going beserk. This part of the storyline is uncollected, but is a mixed bag of great moments and some forgetable wastes of time. pt.3 is called knightquest: the search and follows Bruce Wayne on his journey to find a cure for a broken back. This is also uncollected, but also is ill concieved and not really important to read to get what' going on in the overall storyline. Pt. 4 is called Knightsend and is collected in vol 3 of the nightfall tpb's. This is Bruce Wayne Batman returning to reclaim his role from a frighting mad and paraniod Azrael Batman (Azbats).

[stealthwise]

It's like Hush, or without Jim Lee art. It also makes a hell of a lot more sense.

[rfahey]

I really enjoyed Knightfall at the time and I assume that it held up pretty well. You just have to know going in that Batman is depressed and exhausted for pretty much the whole story, so if you don't mind how that affects the tone of the story, then I'd recommend it. Knightsend is all right, but it's anticlimactic. There really isn't much of a resolution between Bruce and Jean-Paul. I thought that the Knightquest storyline featuring J-P as the new Batman was a good breath of fresh air, and it showcases a number of lesser-known villains since the heavy hitters are locked back up in Arkham. I never read much of the Knightquest storyline featuring Bruce, which seemed pretty ridiculous.

[Valhalla]

Enjoyed all the Series. Painful to collect as it jumped all over the Batman Comics that were going at the time.

Was a little diappointed as to how Bruce got his back mended. I felt they could have done better. Otherwise a good read.

[O_Perez]

really enjoyed it at the time, thought it was great. it's what got me to start reading the Batman books on a regular basis.

[Jake V]

I remember really liking it when it first came out, but I was 11 at the time.

[Gary Joyce]

Was a little diappointed as to how Bruce got his back mended. I felt they could have done better. Otherwise a good read.


Yeah i read it all again recently and am still disappointed by the way Bruces back healed felt like i was reading an x-men comic.

[Choppa]

Yeah i read it all again recently and am still disappointed by the way Bruces back healed felt like i was reading an x-men comic.

I say that Bruce should have had his back get fixed during Zero Hour by Hal. It would have added a nice new dimension to their relationship.

[The Shadow]

It's like Hush, or without Jim Lee art. It also makes a hell of a lot more sense.
:D

It's not bad.

Not great either.

[The Humanist Hero]

I bought the first TPB, Broken Bat, which ends with Bane breaking Batman's back in Wayne Manor. Not bad, but I wasn't inspired to pick up the two subsequent volumes either.

[Hierocles]

Knightfall is okay.

In another thread, you asked about Moore's Swamp Thing run -- I'm as big a Batman fan as any (see my avatar), but I'd suggest you to try that stuff instead. Knightfall is decent, while Moore's Swamp Thing is a masterpiece.

[ExoKnight]

Knightfall is a good read, a bit dated as someone mentioned. It's an important storyline since it sets up the arrival of Bane, Azrael rise and fall, the tension between Grayson and Bruce builds a bit, etc.

[BoSoxJay]

I believe Batman suffered from Chronic Stress Fatigue Syndrome which is kind of a controversial illness in the medical field. like fibomyalgia of the mind I reckon. I though the storyline was great and the Kelley Jones cover with Mr. ZsasZ perched to stab Batman as Bats stands over a fallen girl is about obe of the creepiest and best pieces of comic art I have ever seen. It's still my all-tine favorite comic arc.

It's really the only storyline in the post-crisis era where Batman acts so completely human. He is unshaven, gets beaten several times and struggles to take down B class villains like Firefly and Mad Hatter. He shows expressions of fear and exhaustions and it displays just how heroic he is in spite of ll of these feeling esp. in the sewer confronation with Joker and Scarecrow as he barely manages to save the kidnapped Mayor Krol.

Knightsend is very good as well esp. as a backdrop for "Azrael" which is still one of my all-time favorite comic series though it did fall off towards the end.
Az is one character whom I hope has a future in the Bat books though I often fear the character's history with Joe Q. has doomed him to the quarter bins at least for the forseeable future.

[Generic Eric]

I'm curious about what issues of Azrael are worth reading because I'm thinking of collecting the series.

[Lord Ichabod]

The novelization was how I got into batman. That and the no man's land novel by rucka. I eventually got the trades of knightfall and fell in love with it. It's special to me cause it's my first bat-story. My opinion probably doesn't mean much but I think it's great.

[Guts/Batman]

:D

It's not bad.

Not great either.

Agreed here. Nowhere near the other Batman crossovers since it. NML, especially. It's nowhere near NML, IMO.

I loved the Joker/Scarecrow team up that was featured in what is the first tpb. Scary team-up...

I have all 3 tpbs. And I noticed my comic shop has all of KnightQuest. It worth a read...?

[rfahey]

I have all 3 tpbs. And I noticed my comic shop has all of KnightQuest. It worth a read...?

Which Knightquest, the AzBats Kniqhtquest or the Bruce Wayne Knighquest? 2 of the Batman titles at the time followed each character. The AzBats Knightquest was pretty decent and gave some lower tier villains the spotlight. The Bruce Wayne Knightquest sucked.

[Guts/Batman]

Which Knightquest, the AzBats Kniqhtquest or the Bruce Wayne Knighquest? 2 of the Batman titles at the time followed each character. The AzBats Knightquest was pretty decent and gave some lower tier villains the spotlight. The Bruce Wayne Knightquest sucked.

The JPV Batman KnightQuest...Batman 501-510. I'm interested in picking them up but wanted to know what I was getting myself into.

[rfahey]

I seem to remember it as being entertaining, especially the Abbatoir storyline at the end of the run that set up Knightsend. It depends on how much you like AzBats, I suppose, since he proceeds to alienate pretty much everyone in Bruce's inner circle and goes through 3 or so different versions of his new Batsuit. It is interesting to watch J-P as he gets progressively more sadistic with the villains he fights, as well as the supporting cast try to adjust to the new Batman (including Harold, who I basically never saw again until Hush). Of course, that was a long time ago and I could be thinking too highly of those stories.

[Nick MB]

I'm curious about what issues of Azrael are worth reading because I'm thinking of collecting the series.

The first 27 issues or so are good. Basically, there's a single solid arc about the fall of the order of St Dumas, then a nice two issue epilogue set in Arkham Asylum. They also have lovely art by Barry Kitson.
After that, I actually stuck with the series into the early 40s, but it plummets screaming downhill.

[Steel Spider]

Knightfall is okay. The art has aged a lot and the trades leave out some parts but it's a decent read. No Man's Land is a hell of a lot better.

[dancj]

I bought the first TPB, Broken Bat, which ends with Bane breaking Batman's back in Wayne Manor. Not bad, but I wasn't inspired to pick up the two subsequent volumes either.

If it helps, volumes 2 and 3 are better. It's Azrael's story really. The first book is just the setup

[Generic Eric]

qoute
[The first 27 issues or so are good. Basically, there's a single solid arc about the fall of the order of St Dumas, then a nice two issue epilogue set in Arkham Asylum. They also have lovely art by Barry Kitson.
After that, I actually stuck with the series into the early 40s, but it plummets screaming downhill.
11 Hours Ago 11:38 PM ]
quote


That's good to know. I ended up ordering the first 25 issue from mycomicshop.com for a little over 25 bucks.

[Hierocles]

As far as Azrael goes, I have most of the first 20 issues, and this is quite decent stuff. Kitson's art is strong.

I ended up ordering the first 25 issue from mycomicshop.com for a little over 25 bucks.
I'm just curious: did they have all 25 issues in stock? (I'm always curious about mycomicshop.com "in stock" rate; for my last order, it was about 95%.)

[Bats]

I liked it. Wasn't great by any means, but entertaining at the time. On the other hand, it was one of the stories that really got me into Batman (along with Death in the Family) so it probably holds some sentimental value to me.

[The Batman]

taken together i thought Knightfall was enjoyable; but as mentioned elsewhere it could be a bit uneven at times. the initial knightfall arc, and knight's end felt really tight but it seemed that the middle knightquest part meandered at times. it really seemed that some effort was put into making Azrael a real character and a viable, if ultimately doomed to failure, replacement Batman and it seemed that the way Bruce's back was healed was a bit of a rush job/deus ex machina.

[mattx110]

the shattering/unshattering logo thing was cool. especially in the denny o'neil book version. plus jim aparo did some issues and micheal netzer did a few with what looks like a sharpie (he gets weirder and oddly enough, better with everything i see him draw). goooooood stuff. :) and those little black fold over pieces of cover. genius. plus, i have tons of comics from the early 90s that i don't care if i throw around and get tears in and stuff, because even the great stuff isn't worth much anymore. and ninja azrael was cool before he was a religious nut.

meanwhile, anyone wanna tell me how that "clench" ebola thing ended? did they get the cure from the middle east or not? did azrael reject the order when he found out about the slaughtering of innocent people hundreds/thousands of years earlier? i've got like 1/3rd of every major crossover, and almost none of the ends of them. did tim die or did they cure him, or is he in remission? someone tell me, i gotta know.

[Generic Eric]

I'm just curious: did they have all 25 issues in stock? (I'm always curious about mycomicshop.com "in stock" rate; for my last order, it was about 95%.)

Yeah they had every issue in stock.I've ordered form mycomicshop.com four times and was only shorted once. I had ordered Mike Grel's Green Arrow 1-40, the first minseries and the longbow Hunters mini series. The one issue missing from the order was Green Arrow #1 in near mint condition. Luckaly for me I already had that issue, but it took alot of digging in my disorderly collection to find it.

The other mailordering I have done was from Milehighcomics.com. They had almost a 100% fullfilment rate except for a couple of volumes of manga where they sent me the wrong volume number.

[shaxper]

The first half is great because it pushes Batman to his limits as he's forced to take down nearly all of his greatest villains and minor villains alike after they are broken out of Arkham Asylum. The issue in which Batman gets a whiff of fear gas and starts flipping out on the Joker over the death of Jason Todd was fantastic. Winnick later stole it for a more recent story.

The second half is not as great. Bane was a very undeserving villain to finally be the one to figure out Batman's secret identity and crush him. Batman has the most distinguished rogues gallery in all of comic book history. Any number of villains he'd faced in the past deserved the honor more.

Azrael similarly annoyed me simply because the writers were trying too hard to make us take an interest in him. The final issue was pretty decent but, otherwise, the story ends with the breaking of Batman.

Lastly, if you do choose to read all the way through, skip the two Showcase '93 issues that occur in the middle of Knightfall. They're absolutely pointless and unnecessary.

[Hierocles]

(Sorry for being slightly off-topic here.)

Yeah they had every issue in stock.I've ordered form mycomicshop.com four times and was only shorted once. I had ordered Mike Grel's Green Arrow 1-40, the first minseries and the longbow Hunters mini series. The one issue missing from the order was Green Arrow #1 in near mint condition.
Cool. I love those Green Arrow stories... I'm many issues short of the complete run, though.

The other mailordering I have done was from Milehighcomics.com. They had almost a 100% fullfilment rate except for a couple of volumes of manga where they sent me the wrong volume number.
I dealt with MileHigh once... it must have been back in 2000. I ordered all of Steve Gerber's Man-Thing issues of the early 1970s; the only one they didn't have in stock was #1 (thus, I have #2-22). Fantastic comics!

[Choppa]

Azrael had so much freaking' potential. If they had just left him the way he was at the end of Sword of Azrael, he could have been an awesome character.

[Generic Eric]

I dealt with MileHigh once... it must have been back in 2000. I ordered all of Steve Gerber's Man-Thing issues of the early 1970s; the only one they didn't have in stock was #1 (thus, I have #2-22). Fantastic comics!
Yeah,Mile high is good for more obcure titles, while My Comic Shop is better in pricing on more common comics.

[Generic Eric]

Azrael had so much freaking' potential. If they had just left him the way he was at the end of Sword of Azrael, he could have been an awesome character.
Azrael was a cooler character when he was shown as an equal to Batman, instead of being one of his aprentaices.

Also in a slightly, off topic rant,I think I enjoyed Azrael's original costume and Azbats costumes better than his dorky vigilante agent of the bats costumes.

[Choppa]

Azrael was a cooler character when he was shown as an equal to Batman, instead of being one of his aprentaices.


Well that's what he was at the end of SOA. I mean he freaking saved Bruce's life at the end!

[Agentum]

I even liked Azrael, and think his own book is underated:D
At least something got to change in Batman, at least for a short time, and it's still remembered

Hate me!

[dancj]

I even liked Azrael, and think his own book is underated:D
At least something got to change in Batman, at least for a short time, and it's still remembered

Hate me!

Nothing to hate you for. I remember at the time Azbats was running around, loads of people were writing in angry letters under the apparrant belief that the change was permanent. I just laughed and enjoyed the ride, knowing full well that it wouldn't last and had never been intended to.

[The Punished]

Azrael was a really good character. I think they should have left him alone instead of constantly changing his mood and uniform. Traditional AZ was the best.

I concur that due to the hatred of Joe Q. the character has been swept under the proverbial rug. I doubt we will ever see this character until climates change in both of the big 2.

I thought the Azrael series had so much potential but they kept trying to mess with the cores of the character til the readers became disinterested.

Knightfall pt. 1 was good, introducing how Bane got the better of the Detective. I think the last collection KnightsEnd was a little much. Bruce is healed miraclously, Bruce get an even edgier edge, and JP is beat down by the edgier Bruce.

[rfahey]

Why is there hate for Joe Quesada?

[Generic Eric]

Why is there hate for Joe Quesada?

I think it might have to with when Joe Quesada first became editer in chier at Marvel he had a tendancy to send out press releases and doing interviews where he did alot of trashtalking of DC and generally acting like an ass.

[dancj]

I concur that due to the hatred of Joe Q. the character has been swept under the proverbial rug. I doubt we will ever see this character until climates change in both of the big 2.

I don't think hate for JoeQ is the reason that we don't see Azrael any more. From what I gather, DC just isn't interested in the character and only gave him such a long run in his own comic because their beloved Denny O'Neil was writing it

[Agentum]

And i like to think he really take some intrests from those Batman characters that is a lot more important for DC to push.