Your Elseworld or What if story lines for superman.

[JuggernautRM]

I know this thread has been done before in different forums, but I always wondered how it would be if we focused on one character.

My Elseworld story would be if Supeman had landed in the Roman Empire, and had to serve in the roman legions.

[spideyrules99]

What if Clark landed in Gotham and was found by The Waynes.

[JuggernautRM]

That was actually already done.

[spideyrules99]

That was actually already done.


No kidding? My bad. And here I thought I was being all smart and stuff. How was it?

[Legato]

What If Krypton was never destroyed and Superman didn't have to land on Earth because of it.

[spideyrules99]

What if Superman stayed dead after being killed by doomsday?

[666MasterOfPuppets]

What if Jor-El was still alive?

What if he was raised in New Genesis or Mount Olympus instead of Smallville?

[JuggernautRM]

What if Superman had a twin with him in the ship.

[lucasb]

What If Krypton was never destroyed and Superman didn't have to land on Earth because of it?

What if Superman stayed dead after being killed by doomsday?

What if Jor-El was still alive?

What if Superman had a twin with him in the ship?



All of these have been done. Some, like the first one, multiple times.

[Syphre Zero]

What If... Superman's ship landed on Themiscyra? Has that one been done?

[Syphre Zero]

Try this one on for size...

What If... Krypton was never destroyed, but was instead a remote world on the outer edge of the Alpha Quadrant. After centuries of isolation, the Kryptonians finally agree to contact with the Federation of Planets, and a young Kal-El becomes the first Kryptonian to attend StarFleet Academy. At the end of his first year of schooling, his powers begin to manifest themselves, and he has to choose between honoring his commitment to StarFleet or....

Hang on, that's my Nerd Alarm going off. Let me check that.... yep, according to these readings, I have just embarassed myself.

[stealthwise]

What if Kal-El's entire family had been able to come with him to Earth? Say, an entire Kryptonian family, complete with his cousin Kara and even a (younger? older?) brother.

[Your Imaginary Pal]

What if Super-Man was raised by HillBillies?

What if Super-Man chose to work at a tattoo parlor?

What if Super-Man was raised by the Flying Graysons?(this one could be interesting)

What if Clark went to a pro football team?

What if Superman likes Coke better than Pepsi?

[Damo]

Pirate Ninja Superman.

Oh, you know you'd buy it.

What if Kal-El never made it to Earth, and the Kryptonian Superman we've got is an escaped Phantom Zone criminal?

What if Jax-Ur didn't frickin' blow up one of Krypton's moons, and they'd never banned developing space-flight?

What if Kal-El landed in Riverdale?

[malephoenix]

No kidding? My bad. And here I thought I was being all smart and stuff. How was it?

It's got some goofy moments, like who the hybrid villain turns out to be. However, it was a really fun read, and incredibly cool to see Superman dressed up and flying around in a Batsuit. This site (http://www.elseworlds.net/ewreviews/ewtitles.html) has the cover. Only adding to the coolness is its title: Speeding Bullets. Check out that cover.

[DoubleShot]

What if Superman had two dads?

What if Superman had two moms?

This is getting rediculous. So let's continue!

How about...

What if Superman landed on Mars while the Martian Manhunters people were still there?

What if the Luthors found Superman and raised him?

[stealthwise]

What if Nietzsche had found and raised Supes?

or Plato?

or Hitler?

or Stal... er, never mind that last one. Good god, Red Son rules though, doesn't it? :)

[Damo]

Kal-El raised by Joe Chill? Been done?

[Captain Smith]

What if Superman, instead of being the undersexed wonder he is now, was a lady's man? What if the world was then full of generations of babies growing up to have his powers (depending on the genetics)?

He currently is wussy fixated on Lois and won't even make a move on Diana in a 1000 years together.

[monstermike]

What if Superman didn't fly, didn't wear the suit, fought Braniac's gay robot assistant, and a giant f@#*ing spider in the third chapter?

[zilch]

In the silver age, there was an island of "blacks" on Krypton.

What if a scientist from that island/continent had sent his son to earth?

Would John and Martha raise a black child in mid 20th century Kansas? What if he had stayed in the orphanage?

How would a coming of age Superboy been treated in the 1950s? 1960s? 1970s?

How would the Clark/Lois relationship developed?

Discuss.

[lucasb]

What If... Superman's ship landed on Themiscyra? Has that one been done?

Males were forbidden to set foot on the island, so Hippolyta would probably have dropped him off at an orphanage in the USA.

What if Kal-El's entire family had been able to come with him to Earth? Say, an entire Kryptonian family, complete with his cousin Kara and even a (younger? older?) brother.

Pre-Crisis, he had two cousins (Kara and Van-Zee), Kara's parents eventually turned up alive, and there were several stories in which he THOUGHT he had an older brother, (who turned out to be an amnesiac super-human from a planet similar to Krypton). The last time they used that plot was, of course, Mon-El.



What if Clark went to a pro football team?

Not football, but there was one in which he became a pro basketball star.


What if the Luthors found Superman and raised him?

There's been at least one story where Luthor raised Superman. It was set in a sword-and-sorcery world, and Lex was a sorcerer (whose magic powers, as if regular magic wasn't bad enough, were based on Kryptonite). Needless to say, this version of Supes grew up VERY messed up in the head.

or Hitler?

There was a hilarious Saturday Night Live skit about that. I remember a scene where reporter Klaus Kent looks at Jimmy Olsen, glances down at his crotch, and announces, "This man is a Jew!"

Kal-El raised by Joe Chill? Been done?

Not Joe Chill, but there was a 1960 story in which Kal-El's twin is raised by Wolf and Bonnie Derek, two obvious Bonnie-and-Clyde knockoffs. He grows up to be Super-Menace.

In the silver age, there was an island of "blacks" on Krypton.

What if a scientist from that island/continent had sent his son to earth?

Would John and Martha raise a black child in mid 20th century Kansas? What if he had stayed in the orphanage?

How would a coming of age Superboy been treated in the 1950s? 1960s? 1970s?

How would the Clark/Lois relationship developed?

Discuss.

I think that was pretty much the character, "Icon". Although he was raised by black slaves in the 1800's.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

All of these have been done. Some, like the first one, multiple times.

Is that right? The one with Jor-El still alive? Could you tell me the name of the story?

[Your Imaginary Pal]

Zilch's concept creates a different dynamic than that of Icon's story.
I think it would be a very interesting read, considering the political climate in the US. What if it were a black Clark, having to be bussed to a school and protesters throwing rocks at him and them just bouncing off. If tackled right, within the framework of DC, not an outside imprint. That would be an awesome story.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Try this one on for size...

What If... Krypton was never destroyed, but was instead a remote world on the outer edge of the Alpha Quadrant. After centuries of isolation, the Kryptonians finally agree to contact with the Federation of Planets, and a young Kal-El becomes the first Kryptonian to attend StarFleet Academy. At the end of his first year of schooling, his powers begin to manifest themselves, and he has to choose between honoring his commitment to StarFleet or....

Hang on, that's my Nerd Alarm going off. Let me check that.... yep, according to these readings, I have just embarassed myself.

Please do continue. Looks interesting.

[Alex L]

Actually, all the Elseworlds stuff I can think of points to nature-over-nurture, as no matter what enviornment Kal-El grows up in he ends up with the same personality in the end.

Just a random thought.

[stealthwise]

Goddamn, this thread demonstrates (for the most part) exactly why we need more Elseworlds.

[NotSuper]

I'd like to see a story where Superman lands on Earth as an adult (kind of like Power Girl's origin). This was actually how he arrived on Earth on the Superman radio show.

Another idea I had concerns Superboy (Clark Kent/Kal-El) and the death of the Kents. Basically, the idea is that Superboy grows so bitter after losing his adoptive parents that he leaves Earth forever and becomes a purely intergalactic hero.

[Rylon]

Is that right? The one with Jor-El still alive? Could you tell me the name of the story?Well, here's an interesting one. In 1992, DC decided to shun the traditional Annual Crossover summer fest and just do themes. For 1992, that theme was Elseworlds.

The Superman: The Man of Steel annual for 1992 was a story about a mass migration from Krypton to Earth. In that story, Jor-El is alive and well, so is Kal-El's mother. Of course, the Kryptoions have taken over Earth, and Batman's not to happy about that. But Lex certainly is....

Anyways, if you track this excellent book and read it, I warn you that it is thoroughly grounded in the Byrne Revamp mythology. It reads a lot like a Marvel What if?... Which is is greatest strength.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

What if Superman was found and raised by two teenage kids named Jerry Siegel & Joe Shuster?

[Jack]

I've read the Superman as Bruce Wayne story, but I always wanted to see it taken a little further. Instead of just that, have Batman be the son of Jonathan and Martha Kent too.

You could make it into an interesting sort of class story, with the privileged Bruce having all the money and power in the world while Clark has nothing but his wits.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Well, here's an interesting one. In 1992, DC decided to shun the traditional Annual Crossover summer fest and just do themes. For 1992, that theme was Elseworlds.

The Superman: The Man of Steel annual for 1992 was a story about a mass migration from Krypton to Earth. In that story, Jor-El is alive and well, so is Kal-El's mother. Of course, the Kryptoions have taken over Earth, and Batman's not to happy about that. But Lex certainly is....

Anyways, if you track this excellent book and read it, I warn you that it is thoroughly grounded in the Byrne Revamp mythology. It reads a lot like a Marvel What if?... Which is is greatest strength.

Thanx for the info.

I'll try to track it down.

[lucasb]

Also, in Superboy #74 (published in 1959), Jor-El and Lara show up during Clark's teenage years. Not exactly an Elseworlds, but sort of...

[glennsim]

I'd like to read one where Superman and Clark aren't really the same person. In fact, they don't even know each other any more than Superman and Clark are supposed to, as far as the general public knows.

I'd like to see that with Bruce Wayne/Batman, where Bruce Wayne hires a mercenary (or series of them) to be Batman.

[Hellstormer]

What if Superman married that mermaid girl, Lori?

[Hellstormer]

Well, here's an interesting one. In 1992, DC decided to shun the traditional Annual Crossover summer fest and just do themes. For 1992, that theme was Elseworlds.

The Superman: The Man of Steel annual for 1992 was a story about a mass migration from Krypton to Earth. In that story, Jor-El is alive and well, so is Kal-El's mother. Of course, the Kryptoions have taken over Earth, and Batman's not to happy about that. But Lex certainly is....

Anyways, if you track this excellent book and read it, I warn you that it is thoroughly grounded in the Byrne Revamp mythology. It reads a lot like a Marvel What if?... Which is is greatest strength.

Actually that was '94 here's a web link
http://members.tripod.com/~MitchellBrown/xover/dc_elseworlds.html

[NotSuper]

I'd like to see Lex Luthor in a Faust like story. Basically, you'd have Luthor--brilliant scientist and multi-billionaire--completely bored with life (Superman doesn't exist in this universe). So he makes a deal with a demonic entity (the DCU is full of them--but I'd go with C.W. Saturn from Miracle Monday). Superman would only appear at the end, and he would be the great challenge to give Lex's life meaning. Oh, and there'd be a guest appearance by Felix Faust as well. :)

Another idea I have is one where Superman never came to Earth. Krypton never exploded, but the story isn't primarily set there anyway. This story would take place in the early sixties--with all of Superman's pre-Crisis supporting cast--only Superman wouldn't be there. Metropolis would be protected by Lex Luthor, the Man of Tomorrow (he has hair and ultra-tech). Luthor would be torn between Lana Lang (his childhood sweetheart) and Lois Lane (a reporter he finds fascinating). Luthor's enemies would mostly be old Superman foes, but there would be quite a few new ones as well. Things would really get interesting when Luthor defeats Brainiac and returns the shrunken city of Kandor to Krypton (which never exploded).

Then there's my Nightwing and Flamebird idea. Again, Krypton didn't explode in this tale. However, there was still tragedy in Kal-El's life as--at the age of eight--his parents are slain by an anti-Phantom Zone activist. Kal-El trains through the years and masters the various sciences and martial arts of Krypton. He uses the wealth of his parents to fund his war on crime as Nightwing. And he soon brings his cousin Kara into the fold as Flamebird. Things get really dangerous though when Jax-Ur is released from the Phantom Zone and placed on the now corrupt Science Council.

[Adrian Tullberg]

Recently, I've had a vague idea for an Elseworlds or 'ultimized' Superman set from 1938 onwards ... how his sense of purpose seems to fade as his powers increase and his friends die around him ... you know, lighthearted stuff like that.

[Gernot]

What if Superman was the incompetent coward Frank Miller likes portraying him as?

Would the planet Earth survive into Superman's adulthood? Would SUPERMAN destroy the Earth? Would Earth be destroyed by the first alien invasion Superman refused to stop? Would Batman exist at ALL? LOL :D

[OverMaster]

What if Baby Kal-El had been found by the Joker and Harley Quinn?

[tymac]

Actually, all the Elseworlds stuff I can think of points to nature-over-nurture, as no matter what enviornment Kal-El grows up in he ends up with the same personality in the end.

Just a random thought.


That is what usually ruins the execution of elseworld stories. The best example I can think of is JLA: The Nail. It would has been interesting if they'd decide to go the evil Superman route.

[marshal99]

I would like to see a elseworld where it shows a Justice Lord type of Superman , a superman that doesn't take prisoners and decides to eliminate all his enemies and end up having a superman museum of the dead ...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v513/marshal99/museum.jpg

[Lorendiac]

That is what usually ruins the execution of elseworld stories. The best example I can think of is JLA: The Nail. It would has been interesting if they'd decide to go the evil Superman route.

I tend to agree in general with the previous point that it can get monotonous to see all these Elseworlds stories where Superman ends up reverting back to something very close to the Sacred Status Quo of "Regular Continuity Superman" regardless of how differently his childhood has been handled this time around . . . but in the specific case of "The Nail" I disagree. I bought it as it first came out in three installments. As I recall, there were various things in the first two installments that were "obviously" trying to make us think Superman was a villain, or the mind-controlled puppet of some other villain, or whatever. After all, we knew something was doing nasty things with superspeed, superstrength, and I forget what else. To me, that was a beautiful case of a classic Red Herring meant to make us think Kal-El of Krypton was the most obvious suspect before we ever saw his face . . . except that he wasn't guilty after all! :)

If it had turned out in #3 that Kal-El of Krypton really was the big villain (or his brainwashed muscle until someone liberated his mind), exactly as we suspected earlier, then the ending would have fallen flat because it would have turned out there was no real "mystery" involved after all -- just the painfully obvious hints that meant exactly what they seemed to mean all along!

[Super Hero Guy]

What if Lois Lane didn't exist?

What if Kara came to Earth instead of Kal-El

What if Supes' ship crash landed in Times Square in broad daylight instead of a remote country area

What if Superman were ugly

What if Superman had accidently killed the Kents with his heat vision when they first found him?

What if Bruce Wayne had come to live with the Kents after his parents' death?

[Lorendiac]

What if Kara came to Earth instead of Kal-El

There's something I heard about last year, but haven't read.

"Elseworlds Finest: Supergirl & Batgirl." An Elseworlds written by Barbara Kesel several years ago. There was never a Superman; there is only Kara Zor-El. There was never a Batman; there is only Barbara Gordon.

The explanation behind the "Barbara instead of Bruce" thing seems to go like this (from what I've heard, since I haven't seen a copy): Many years ago, when the Wayne family was walking through a dark alley, a mugger threatened them with a gun -- and heroic young cop James Gordon just happened to be walking a beat or something, and threw himself forward out of the shadows to protect them -- and got killed on the spot, but nobody else died that night. Out of gratitude, the Wayne family took care of Gordon's family from then on, and at the time of the story, a few decades later, filthy rich businessman Bruce Wayne is still subsidizing the crimefighting activities of Barbara Gordon, better known as the mysterious Batgirl, the greatest detective alive. :)

I've looked on Amazon and they say there aren't any new or used copies for sale. (Or they said so the last time I looked.) I get the impression that all of the first printing must have sold by now, and DC's never bothered to lift a finger to do anything so strenuous as a second printing.

[Legato]

What If Superman's spaceship landed in Themyscira?

[Super Hero Guy]

What if Kryptonians weren't humanoid?

[Legato]

What If Superman wasn't accepted by the public?

[Lorendiac]

What if Kryptonians weren't humanoid?

Well, I think that one boils down to the same thing as "What if there had never been a Superman?" from Earth's point of view. If Kryptonians looked like giant purple octopi with green polka dots, then Jor-El would have sent his son to a planet that met the following requirements:

A) Orbited a yellow star
B) Was inhabited by a sentient race, the typical member of which looked very much like a giant purple octopus with green polka dots!

I never thought it was pure coincidence that Kal-El looks like he "belonged" on Earth as far as his general physical appearance was concerned. If he couldn't possibly "fit in," then Jor-El simply would have chosen a different destination where the poor little tyke would fit in as he grew up! :)

[Super Hero Guy]

What if yellow stars didn't give Kryptonians super powers?

What if the rest of Krypton had believed that the planet would explode?

[Lorendiac]

What if yellow stars didn't give Kryptonians super powers?

Some theories have it that in that case, Clark would not be able to fly, nor to radiate heat vision from his eyes, nor to move faster than a speeding bullet. But he would still be a lot stronger than any human being, because Krypton was a much heavier planet than Earth, in addition to the little detail of orbiting a red star :)

I really don't know what the "current continuity" says regarding what Krypton's surface gravity was, compared to Earth's surface gravity.

What if the rest of Krypton had believed that the planet would explode?

"Superman: The Man of Steel Annual #3." An Elseworlds story from 1994.

In it, Jor-El managed to get the funding to build enough ships to carry something like a hundred thousand Kryptonians to Earth, which they promptly conquered. A couple of decades later, the most notorious "freedom fighter" waging guerrilla warfare on their operations is that grim-and-gritty guy who hangs out in Gotham and is called "Batman." Lois Lane is also a leader in the resistance.

Young Kal-El becomes fascinated by this mysterious Batman and starts spying on him, using flight, super-speed, X-ray vision, etc., to watch how he will pull one raid after another and then outfight and outmaneuver the people who try to arrest him. Eventually Kal-El starts thinking about taking an active role in this struggle . . .

One reason the resistance has lasted so long is that Jor-El and those other Kryptonians from the cold, scientific, almost emotionless "Byrne Krypton" of the Post-Crisis era don't believe in getting their hands dirty. Instead of personally trying to use their powers to hunt down Batman, they send out human flunkies in armored suits to look for him. (Their cops are led by a genius named Luthor.) Good story. Come to think of it, I probably haven't reread it since sometime in the 20th Century. Think I'll see if I can dig it out of my collection tonight. (Batman in this story looked and talked quite a bit like Frank Miller's DKR version of Batman.)

[Super Hero Guy]

What if Kryptonite didn't exist?

What if Luthor was a good guy ala Batman?

What if the Kents had been murdered before the eyes of young Clark?

[ShadowSonic]

Some theories have it that in that case, Clark would not be able to fly, nor to radiate heat vision from his eyes, nor to move faster than a speeding bullet. But he would still be a lot stronger than any human being, because Krypton was a much heavier planet than Earth, in addition to the little detail of orbiting a red star :)

I really don't know what the "current continuity" says regarding what Krypton's surface gravity was, compared to Earth's surface gravity.



"Superman: The Man of Steel Annual #3." An Elseworlds story from 1994.

In it, Jor-El managed to get the funding to build enough ships to carry something like a hundred thousand Kryptonians to Earth, which they promptly conquered. A couple of decades later, the most notorious "freedom fighter" waging guerrilla warfare on their operations is that grim-and-gritty guy who hangs out in Gotham and is called "Batman." Lois Lane is also a leader in the resistance.

Young Kal-El becomes fascinated by this mysterious Batman and starts spying on him, using flight, super-speed, X-ray vision, etc., to watch how he will pull one raid after another and then outfight and outmaneuver the people who try to arrest him. Eventually Kal-El starts thinking about taking an active role in this struggle . . .

One reason the resistance has lasted so long is that Jor-El and those other Kryptonians from the cold, scientific, almost emotionless "Byrne Krypton" of the Post-Crisis era don't believe in getting their hands dirty. Instead of personally trying to use their powers to hunt down Batman, they send out human flunkies in armored suits to look for him. (Their cops are led by a genius named Luthor.) Good story. Come to think of it, I probably haven't reread it since sometime in the 20th Century. Think I'll see if I can dig it out of my collection tonight. (Batman in this story looked and talked quite a bit like Frank Miller's DKR version of Batman.)

Didn't Byrne himself write a story about what if all the Kryptonians came to Earth? They started to take over so Jor-El led a resistance army of humans against them bcause he realized the Kryptonians were in the wrong?

Turns out the whole thing was a Kryptonite-induced hallucination Supes had while visiting Krypton's remains.

It was the the "Greatest Superman stories" TPB.

[Lorendiac]

What if Kryptonite didn't exist?

Wasn't there a period in the 1970s when that was tried in the regular Earth-1 continuity? I mean, Kryptonite had existed for awhile, but then it all got turned into plain old ordinary iron. Offhand, I don't remember how that was all undone later.

What if the Kents had been murdered before the eyes of young Clark?

Well, in the Elseworlds "Superman: Speeding Bullets," he was found by the Waynes instead of the Kents. They named him Bruce. Right on schedule, they were killed before his eyes several years later when he was still a child. So he became the superpowered vigilante known as Batman. Does that count?

[Lorendiac]

Didn't Byrne himself write a story about what if all the Kryptonians came to Earth? They started to take over so Jor-El led a resistance army of humans against them bcause he realized the Kryptonians were in the wrong?

Turns out the whole thing was a Kryptonite-induced hallucination Supes had while visiting Krypton's remains.

It was the the "Greatest Superman stories" TPB.

I remembered that, actually. :) That was part of the story in which the Hawks had flown Superman out to look at the glowing green remains of what used to be an inhabited planet named Krypton. But that sequence was so brief, and so unreliable (being a hallucination induced by Green K radiation, as you point out), that I didn't figure it counted as a really fair and thorough look at the possibility of a massive Kryptonian exodus to Earth.

[Alex L]

I tend to agree in general with the previous point that it can get monotonous to see all these Elseworlds stories where Superman ends up reverting back to something very close to the Sacred Status Quo of "Regular Continuity Superman" regardless of how differently his childhood has been handled this time around . . . but in the specific case of "The Nail" I disagree. I bought it as it first came out in three installments. As I recall, there were various things in the first two installments that were "obviously" trying to make us think Superman was a villain, or the mind-controlled puppet of some other villain, or whatever. After all, we knew something was doing nasty things with superspeed, superstrength, and I forget what else. To me, that was a beautiful case of a classic Red Herring meant to make us think Kal-El of Krypton was the most obvious suspect before we ever saw his face . . . except that he wasn't guilty after all! :)

If it had turned out in #3 that Kal-El of Krypton really was the big villain (or his brainwashed muscle until someone liberated his mind), exactly as we suspected earlier, then the ending would have fallen flat because it would have turned out there was no real "mystery" involved after all -- just the painfully obvious hints that meant exactly what they seemed to mean all along!

The biggest letdown of The Nail for me was that it was supposed to be a World Without Superman.

What happens in the end...? Oh yeah -- Kal-El comes to save the day. :rolleyes:

==========
What if...Kal had been sent to Earth as a teenager/adult/at some stage where he had memories of Krypton and had some Kryptonian values instilled in him?

[The Foreigner]

I tend to agree in general with the previous point that it can get monotonous to see all these Elseworlds stories where Superman ends up reverting back to something very close to the Sacred Status Quo of "Regular Continuity Superman" regardless of how differently his childhood has been handled this time around . . . but in the specific case of "The Nail" I disagree. I bought it as it first came out in three installments. As I recall, there were various things in the first two installments that were "obviously" trying to make us think Superman was a villain, or the mind-controlled puppet of some other villain, or whatever. After all, we knew something was doing nasty things with superspeed, superstrength, and I forget what else. To me, that was a beautiful case of a classic Red Herring meant to make us think Kal-El of Krypton was the most obvious suspect before we ever saw his face . . . except that he wasn't guilty after all! :)

If it had turned out in #3 that Kal-El of Krypton really was the big villain (or his brainwashed muscle until someone liberated his mind), exactly as we suspected earlier, then the ending would have fallen flat because it would have turned out there was no real "mystery" involved after all -- just the painfully obvious hints that meant exactly what they seemed to mean all along!

Agreed. The ending to The Nail caught me totally by surprise, because I was expecting Clark to show up as a baddie.

[Forsaken_One]

For my elseworlds I'd want them to make a world where the cuban missile crisis turned hot, one where none of the heros we know exist but there are heros and villians all around with the same names. Hell, I just want them to make more Tangent comics. :p

Okay then, what if Superman had been found by the government and raised by fa-- wait, that's Supreme Power. Okay, I'm thinking, I'm thinking...

What if Superman decided the best way to help the world was to take it over and force humanity to do what he figured they needed? Gah! That's Squadron Supreme. And Justice Lords. And Supreme Power. And Red Son.

Okay then, how about what if Superman had the same power level as when he started but was in the current DCU? I wouldn't mind seeing an elseworld where Superman could only leap a thirteen story building and was bruised by tank shells in the current DCU. What do you do when the paragon of justice and truth in the world is a wimp compared to all the other supers?

There's something I heard about last year, but haven't read.

"Elseworlds Finest: Supergirl & Batgirl." An Elseworlds written by Barbara Kesel several years ago. There was never a Superman; there is only Kara Zor-El. There was never a Batman; there is only Barbara Gordon.
It was a very good read. I have to say, Batgirl makes a much more interesting Gotham than Batman ever does.

One thing to keep in mind is that Elseworld's Finest is a true Elseworlds, not a what if. All the heros are changed, from Captain Marvel to Wonder Woman. The world is also different with America being more of a nation-state based government than the massive federal government we and the DCU are used to. Still, a very good comic and one that I would have been interested in seeing continued in future miniseries.

[Adrian Tullberg]

What if Lois Lane never existed?

[Super Hero Guy]

What if Lara had come with baby Kal-El to Earth?

What if Superman had landed in China?

What if Earth was already a Utopia when Superman arrived?

What if Earthlings were more advanced then Kryptonians?

[666MasterOfPuppets]

What if Superman was the incompetent coward Frank Miller likes portraying him as?

Would the planet Earth survive into Superman's adulthood? Would SUPERMAN destroy the Earth? Would Earth be destroyed by the first alien invasion Superman refused to stop? Would Batman exist at ALL? LOL :D

Meh... Frank "I hate Superman" Miller. Don't give ideas to DC AND Miller...

[NotSuper]

One story I've always wanted to see is Kal-El's ship going through a time-warp and landing two thousand years in Earth's future. By this time, Earth has reached a level ALMOST as advanced as Krypton and has already colonized many worlds. Kal-El is raised by two Terran Empire scientists, but he keeps his birth name because the Terrans were able to decode his ship's memory banks. Kal-El is lied to about his birth planet, however, and told that the enemies of Terra were responsible for its destruction. Because of this, he accepts the position as Terra's lead general and assists his adopted world in taking over alien planets so that they can be colonized.

The truth is finally revealed to him by Coluans (Terra's enemies) and specifically Brainiac 10 (descendent of Brainiac 5). He turns on his adopted world and joins the Coluans in their battle against it. (Superman can't defeat Terra himself due to them having very advanced weaponry and synthicized Green K). Terra eventually destroys itself in an attempt to defeat their enemies and Superman chooses not to stay on Colu either. He's a man without a world now--he endlessly wanders the universe, helping those that need it.

[NotSuper]

Wasn't there a period in the 1970s when that was tried in the regular Earth-1 continuity? I mean, Kryptonite had existed for awhile, but then it all got turned into plain old ordinary iron. Offhand, I don't remember how that was all undone later.
That's right. Denny O'Neil wrote that particular story. That change only affected the kryptonite on Earth, though. It still existed in space.

[Lorendiac]

That's right. Denny O'Neil wrote that particular story. That change only affected the kryptonite on Earth, though. It still existed in space.

Oops! Didn't specify, did I? I'm pretty sure I knew that it was only a global event rather than a universal event. But for some reason, given how many tons of kryptonite Supes continued to encounter later on, I think I had assumed that the chain reaction transmutation (or whatever the event was called) must have been "reversed" later. Was it really just that kryptonite meteors kept crashing down onto Earth every day of the year so that Lex Luthor et al. never actually were in any real danger of running short of material? :)

[NotSuper]

Oops! Didn't specify, did I? I'm pretty sure I knew that it was only a global event rather than a universal event. But for some reason, given how many tons of kryptonite Supes continued to encounter later on, I think I had assumed that the chain reaction transmutation (or whatever the event was called) must have been "reversed" later. Was it really just that kryptonite meteors kept crashing down onto Earth every day of the year so that Lex Luthor et al. never actually were in any real danger of running short of material? :)
I think new meteors just fell again and seeded Earth with new Green K. I've always wondered whether it was only Green K that was rendered harmless, though. There were many other kinds of kryptonite on the planet as well.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

One story I've always wanted to see is Kal-El's ship going through a time-warp and landing two thousand years in Earth's future. By this time, Earth has reached a level ALMOST as advanced as Krypton and has already colonized many worlds. Kal-El is raised by two Terran Empire scientists, but he keeps his birth name because the Terrans were able to decode his ship's memory banks. Kal-El is lied to about his birth planet, however, and told that the enemies of Terra were responsible for its destruction. Because of this, he accepts the position as Terra's lead general and assists his adopted world in taking over alien planets so that they can be colonized.

The truth is finally revealed to him by Coluans (Terra's enemies) and specifically Brainiac 10 (descendent of Brainiac 5). He turns on his adopted world and joins the Coluans in their battle against it. (Superman can't defeat Terra himself due to them having very advanced weaponry and synthicized Green K). Terra eventually destroys itself in an attempt to defeat their enemies and Superman chooses not to stay on Colu either. He's a man without a world now--he endlessly wanders the universe, helping those that need it.

This, my friend, is a cool idea.

[NotSuper]

This, my friend, is a cool idea.
Thanks. I appreciate you saying that. :)

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Thanks. I appreciate you saying that. :)

You're always welcome.

[spideyrules99]

One story I've always wanted to see is Kal-El's ship going through a time-warp and landing two thousand years in Earth's future. By this time, Earth has reached a level ALMOST as advanced as Krypton and has already colonized many worlds. Kal-El is raised by two Terran Empire scientists, but he keeps his birth name because the Terrans were able to decode his ship's memory banks. Kal-El is lied to about his birth planet, however, and told that the enemies of Terra were responsible for its destruction. Because of this, he accepts the position as Terra's lead general and assists his adopted world in taking over alien planets so that they can be colonized.

The truth is finally revealed to him by Coluans (Terra's enemies) and specifically Brainiac 10 (descendent of Brainiac 5). He turns on his adopted world and joins the Coluans in their battle against it. (Superman can't defeat Terra himself due to them having very advanced weaponry and synthicized Green K). Terra eventually destroys itself in an attempt to defeat their enemies and Superman chooses not to stay on Colu either. He's a man without a world now--he endlessly wanders the universe, helping those that need it.

I agree man it is a great idea.

On a side note. Anyone remeber the mini called Generations (Spelling?) It had Batman and Superman and showed them every ten years. Than the second did every five years. Was imo one of the best Batman Superman stories I have ever read. Anyone know if this is out in TPB?

[ShadowSonic]

Yes, I think the first two Generation series are in TPB, I don't know about Generations III.

Shows Byrne still has a few good ones left in him.

[NotSuper]

I've only read the first Generations.

[NotSuper]

After reading Infinite Crisis Secret Files 2006 I've been wondering about something: What would have happened if Alexander Luthor had transported the Earth-2 Superman and Lois and Superboy-Prime to Apokolips? I think this would be a great story in the hands of the right writer. Something similar to The Nail perhaps.

You could have the Crisis survivors battle Darkseid in an attempt to gain possession of boom tube technology, you could have the Earth-2 Superman become a mentor to Superman and spare Power Girl her multiple origins, Superboy-Prime could inspire and join the Legion (saving them from their many reboots), and Lois could...well, nothing really, but she'd be there.

[Forsaken_One]

The thing about Elseworlds, as opposed to What Ifs, is that Elseworlds are generally a change of origin or a dramatic event that changes everything, not a slight shift in a big crossover event.

For example, the change of "What if Superman fell in Russia during the Cold War" is an Elseworlds. "What if all the superheros lost there powers" is another one. Neither is specifically focused on some uber event; the first is an origin shift, the second could occur any time given the characters involved.

The idea of Alex shifting Superman is more What If style. Like one What If story I remember is "What if Angel really was Death." It took a specific event at the time (Angel turning into Death then repenting and going back to the side of the light) and shifted the events in it (Angel ended up not repenting). It has a very specific point where it could occur, not before and not after, and it's not immediately accessable to people who don't remember/didn't read the storyline.

Broad versus narrow stroaks of the pen I guess. It's like the difference between asking "What if the Roman Empire hadn't collapsed" versus "What if Bush Sr. had won a second term," you know? Ah well, I'm tired. Maybe that makes sense to someone.

[Gnarl]

'37-38. The great depression, the dust bowl. Clark Kent is a young man, who know he is not a hu man.

But not what he is or where he came from.

Clark travels the world, searching for clues as to what he is. He is humannoid enough to pass visually, but not any close medical examination. He may or may not be human in terms of glandual/emotional reactions. He is not sure.

Nazis, original power levels. Think Indiana Jones.

Biggest struggle may be internal. He is, undiniably even to himself, an Ubermensch.

[lucasb]

'37-38. The great depression, the dust bowl. Clark Kent is a young man, who know he is not a hu man.

But not what he is or where he came from.

Clark travels the world, searching for clues as to what he is. He is humannoid enough to pass visually, but not any close medical examination. He may or may not be human in terms of glandual/emotional reactions. He is not sure.

Nazis, original power levels. Think Indiana Jones.

Biggest struggle may be internal. He is, undiniably even to himself, an Ubermensch.

There's a novel called "Superman" that explores this theme. Quite good. At one point, while drifting around the country, he ends up a stunt man in Hollywood.
A logical choice of professions, for a guy who can't get hurt. He acquires a girlfriend, who works as an assistant costume designer, and has bits and pieces of various outfits from a bunch of different movies laying around her apartment. Including a red-and-blue uniform with an "S" on the chest, I think it was from a movie that never got made called "Invaders From Saturn", or something like that (he even comments on how stupid it is that men from Saturn would wear an English letter "S", but hey, it was a B movie...)

The book is quite interesting, although I didn't care for the fact that Clark seems TOO MUCH a regular guy, trying to cope with these powers he can't explain, and I thought he should be smarter than that. But it's still a very good read.

[NotSuper]

The thing about Elseworlds, as opposed to What Ifs, is that Elseworlds are generally a change of origin or a dramatic event that changes everything, not a slight shift in a big crossover event.
True, but there are exceptions to the rule. I used The Nail as an example. It mostly followed DC's continuity with a slight change.

[Forsaken_One]

True, but there are exceptions to the rule. I used The Nail as an example. It mostly followed DC's continuity with a slight change.
I'd disagree on The Nail specifically. That, too, was a origin change as I remember (Superman not being picked up by the Kents). Furthermore it wasn't directed at any specific event; Superman's arrival at Earth and how it affected all other heros is a big thing but, to the best of my knowledge, there's never been some event or even a comic arc built around it directly.

So it isn't focusing on a event and it's dealing with a huge change rather than a small one. I'd definintly consider Superman not showing up a huge event. It's like, say, "What If Prof. X hadn't been born a mutant?" That'd be a huge premise. But the vast majority of What Ifs, especially before the most recent batch, were more "What if Prof. X had joined with Magneto in [Insert X-Crossover]?"

[NotSuper]

I'd disagree on The Nail specifically. That, too, was a origin change as I remember (Superman not being picked up by the Kents). Furthermore it wasn't directed at any specific event; Superman's arrival at Earth and how it affected all other heros is a big thing but, to the best of my knowledge, there's never been some event or even a comic arc built around it directly.
I believe I explained things wrong. What I was saying was that the DC universe that Superman wasn't found by the Kents in was mostly the same as mainstream continuity--the only change being Superman not showing up until later. Most Elseworlds involve heroes being transported from their regular settings into ones that couldn't exist or shouldn't in mainstream continuity. The Nail is one of the few that was set in the mainstream DCU--but with one thing happening differently, thus changing the future. If you imagine the DCU as a straight line, The Nail would've been a forking path in the middle, going in a different direction.

As for there being an event around it, I'm not aware of one. There was a sequel, so that might count. In any case, I'd still like to see the story told. It would qualify as an Elseworlds because the mainstream heroes' lives would be forever changed by meeting the survivors so early in their careers.

[Gnarl]

There's a novel called "Superman" that explores this theme. Quite good. At one point, while drifting around the country, he ends up a stunt man in Hollywood.
A logical choice of professions, for a guy who can't get hurt. He acquires a girlfriend, who works as an assistant costume designer, and has bits and pieces of various outfits from a bunch of different movies laying around her apartment. Including a red-and-blue uniform with an "S" on the chest, I think it was from a movie that never got made called "Invaders From Saturn", or something like that (he even comments on how stupid it is that men from Saturn would wear an English letter "S", but hey, it was a B movie...)

The book is quite interesting, although I didn't care for the fact that Clark seems TOO MUCH a regular guy, trying to cope with these powers he can't explain, and I thought he should be smarter than that. But it's still a very good read.

That sounds really interesting. I don't suppose you happen to remember the author?

[NotSuper]

That sounds really interesting. I don't suppose you happen to remember the author?
Tom De Haven is the author. And it's actually called It's Superman!--I did a joint review of it on the Superman Homepage.

[NotSuper]

One thing I always wanted to see was Kal-El landing on Colu or Daxam. If he landed on Colu he could be tied in with Brainiac and if he landed on Daxam he could be the adopted brother on Lar Gand (Mon-El).

[Super Hero Guy]

What if...Superman had Batman's personality and vice versa?

[Kilgore Trout]

What if...Superman had Batman's personality and vice versa?

I'd like to see a story where Superman is mourning the death of Lois...

Or how Superman reacts to being a father...

Or what he will be like when he's an old man...

Or a story about the Superman of 2107

Because just changing where the space ship landed is a finished concept.

I'd like to see a few single story issues throughout the year to break up the soap opera and give the creative teams a chance to stretch, rest or catch up...

[Lorendiac]

What if...Superman had Batman's personality and vice versa?

As near as I can tell, back in the Silver Age they both had much the same cheery personality. One of them just happened to have a lot more powers. Does that count? :)

[666MasterOfPuppets]

As near as I can tell, back in the Silver Age they both had much the same cheery personality. One of them just happened to have a lot more powers. Does that count? :)

I think this was done. And it wasn't an Elseworlds, mind you. It seems (I didn't read it) that Superman and Batman switch minds.

[Syphre Zero]

Because just changing where the space ship landed is a finished concept. How about this, then....

Clark Kent is walking through his Kansas cornfield, minding his own business, and a spaceship lands on HIM? :)

[Kilgore Trout]

Works for me... :)

But instead of Kansas maybe we could make it a cornfield in Iowa...

'Cause we all know how different THEY are...

[hoffmandu]

What IF! Superman had crash landed in Minneapolis MN instead of KANSAS! Raised by NFL coach Dennis Green, bred to play MN Viking Football! BOOYA!

[PrimalScream]

what if the kents gave up baby superman to be was raised by the army (possibly with sam lane involved and a young lois) to become a super-soldier?

[hoffmandu]

WHAT IF! Supes was ULTRA GAY! (mortal kombat voice)

[Rylon]

Ok, Superman debutes in 1938, just like in Action Comics #1. But this Superman actaully has to deal with the ramifications of the Hollocoust. I find it odd that the Earth-2 Superman spent most of IC saying how great Earth-2 when his Earth still had WWII. His earth still had the Holocoust, but we never see him deal with it. His earth still had nuclear weapons. I want to see how someone who vallues life so much deals with genocide. That's the Elseworlds I want to see.

[Lorendiac]

Ok, Superman debutes in 1938, just like in Action Comics #1. But this Superman actaully has to deal with the ramifications of the Hollocoust. I find it odd that the Earth-2 Superman spent most of IC saying how great Earth-2 when his Earth still had WWII. His earth still had the Holocoust, but we never see him deal with it. His earth still had nuclear weapons. I want to see how someone who vallues life so much deals with genocide. That's the Elseworlds I want to see.

Chris Claremont "almost" had the guts to touch upon that idea in a four-part Elseworlds he wrote for DC several years ago:

"Superman/Wonder Woman: Whom Gods Destroy."

In his version, near as I can recall, Superman still debuted around 1938. He was an American in the World War II era, but for some reason (details are escaping me) he didn't actually do much of anything about Hitler during the 1940s. Possibly there was no Pearl Harbor and the USA never got actively involved in that war? In which case Superman may have felt that he couldn't be the "global cop" who would singlehandedly force warring nations thousands of miles away to quit fighting, if his own homeland's government would condemn his gratuitous interference in somebody else's private problems? So Hitler, and his successors in the second half of the 20th Century, ended up basically owning Europe, I think. (Not sure about the British Isles, though.)

Much of the story is set in the "present" (late 90s, thereabouts) but there is one fairly interesting flashback scene to 1962 (or somewhere around there). Superman is suddenly in a very bad mood. Nazi radar picks him up flying fast and furious over their territory to a spot in Poland (I think) where at superspeed he starts excavating a wheat field that used to be one of the death camps in the Holocaust in the 1940s. (Auschwitz, maybe? I'm not sure.)

He comes up holding a loose human tooth in his hand, in time to see that something like a regiment of the German Army has arrived during his diggings and they have their rifles and tanks and things all pointed at him. Their commanding officer - a colonel, I believe - tells Superman pointedly that he's trespassing on their sovereign soil and if he doesn't leave quietly, right now, they'll have to use force on him as a dangerous invader.

I haven't read this scene in a few years, so bear with me as I loosely paraphrase from memory. Superman asks the colonel if he really thinks anything they have could beat Superman in a fair fight. The colonel says frankly that he doubts it, but so what? The point is that he has his orders in defense of the Fatherland, and so do the thousands of brave young men under his command, and by golly they will carry out those orders to the best of their ability, win or lose. If they die in the line of duty because Superman felt like fighting them, no-holds-barred, then that's just tough.

I think Superman waves a human tooth at the colonel and demands to know how many people already died on this soil and were burned and buried to hide the evidence?

The colonel says (roughly) the following: "How would I know? If something terrible happened here, as you suggest, then it must have been nearly twenty years ago, right? The leaders of the Third Reich who would have ordered it are nearly all dead by now, so what are you going to do them? I was just a schoolboy back then; I didn't know anything about whatever you're talking about. Most of my soldiers were busy getting born around that time; how can you blame them? Are you planning to fight us and kill all of us, right now, because of something terrible that you think a bunch of other people did a long time ago, that had nothing to do with anyone who's standing here in front of you?"

The man had a point. Superman finally gave up and flew back home in a huff. So his whole trip to Poland had accomplished Absolutely Nothing. It worked out so well that Superman bravely continued to accomplish Absolutely Nothing, as far as Nazi dominion over Europe was concerned, for at least the next 35 or 36 years, up until the "present day" of the story set in the late 90s!

The major problem I had with that scene was that it made Superman look like he ought to call himself "Superclueless." The way he was acting in that scene in the early 60s gave us the strong impression that he had "just recently" run across some convincing rumors, eyewitness testimony, something like that, about the Holocaust that killed six million Jews (and an estimated five million other people) in the 1940s in our real history, and presumably killed at least as many people in this Elseworlds timeline. Maybe more, since the Germans of the "Whom Gods Destroy" timeline didn't end up losing their war and getting occupied by Allied armies in 1945. Although it appears that by the early 1960s, those death camps had all long since been torn down and converted to farmland and there was no longer any sort of large-scale "Holocaust" going on as a current policy. (Apparently. Or at least Superman didn't mention finding any evidence that such mass murder was still going on at that point.)

But Superman was supposed to have already been a grown man with all his powers in the 1940s. Superspeed, flight, X-ray vision, telescopic vision. Are we really supposed to believe he never heard any rumors at the time about what Hitler was doing to Jews who just "disappeared" from the cities the Nazis conquered? That he never used his vision powers to conduct reconnaissance and see what was going on in those "labor camps" (or whatever they were called in public) that kept taking one train after another full of Jewish civilians to them, but never brought them back out? Instead, almost twenty years after the fact, he finally decides maybe he ought to personally investigate this subject? Long after everybody's dead and it's too late for him to make any real difference?

P.S. Have you ever heard about the "in continuity" excuse that Roy Thomas invented in his "All-Star Squadron" title in the early 80s to explain why the Earth-2 Superman (and Wonder Woman, and some other heroes) didn't actually fly over to Berlin and take Hitler prisoner right after the USA entered the war following the sneak attack on Pearl Harbor? Granted, it was offered to us about 40 years late, but it did try to address that nagging question of why WWII dragged on so long in a world that already had a Superman fighting for Truth, Justice, and the American Way :)

[Lorendiac]

What IF! Superman had crash landed in Minneapolis MN instead of KANSAS! Raised by NFL coach Dennis Green, bred to play MN Viking Football! BOOYA!

Have you ever read the Elseworlds "Superman, Inc."? In that one he wasn't found by the Kents and he grew up to make it big as a pro basketball player, the best alive, with the king-sized ego to match, before he came to realize just how "superhuman" he was. Didn't even know he was an alien at first; just thought he'd gotten lucky with the right genes to give him some of the fastest reflexes and strongest muscles on the planet. (But for most of the story he had absolutely no idea how fast and strong he really was if he set his mind to it.)

[Rylon]

Chris Claremont "almost" had the guts to touch upon that idea in a four-part Elseworlds he wrote for DC several years agoThat is what gave me the idea for an indepth look. That story had so much potential and I feel it was wasted.

P.S. Have you ever heard about the "in continuity" excuse that Roy Thomas invented in his "All-Star Squadron" title in the early 80s to explain why the Earth-2 Superman (and Wonder Woman, and some other heroes) didn't actually fly over to Berlin and take Hitler prisoner right after the USA entered the war following the sneak attack on Pearl Harbor? Granted, it was offered to us about 40 years late, but it did try to address that nagging question of why WWII dragged on so long in a world that already had a Superman fighting for Truth, Justice, and the American Way :)Because of DC's handling of WWII continuity, we've never really had DC superheros deal with it's ramifications. By the time anyone thought to tell WWII stories, those Superheros were regulated to another Earth. When the Earth's merged, there was little existing precedent for DC superhero involvement. Marvel got it right, one Earth the whole time. And they published WWII stories during the 40's, so the precedent for latter books like The Invaders.

[Kirayoshi]

Ah Elseworlds stories.

How about...

What if, after a few years established as Superman, Clark discovered that Krypton hadn't been destroyed after all, and that the Kryptonians were now coming to Earth as a conquering army--and want Superman to lead the assault against humanity?

Seriously, how torn would he be? His heritage is alive and well, but he's started a new life on Earth, he's finally gotten together with Lois and he's come to love humanity as his true people.

Or is that too much like Robert Kirkman's "Invincible"?

[Adrian Tullberg]

Ah Elseworlds stories.

How about...

What if, after a few years established as Superman, Clark discovered that Krypton hadn't been destroyed after all, and that the Kryptonians were now coming to Earth as a conquering army--and want Superman to lead the assault against humanity?

Seriously, how torn would he be? His heritage is alive and well, but he's started a new life on Earth, he's finally gotten together with Lois and he's come to love humanity as his true people.

Or is that too much like Robert Kirkman's "Invincible"?

I've just checked, and it's similar to an episode of 'Lois and Clark'.

[Pól Rua]

What if...Superman had Batman's personality and vice versa?

The story 'Speeding Bullets' had Kal-El adopted by the Wayne Family of Gotham City, so I guess that's sort of your wish right there.

[geordiesteve]

What if Kal-El, had been a girl named Kara or something else Kryptonian?

What is Superman had been a woman? Krypton's last daughter.

[SuperManny]

What if, after a few years established as Superman, Clark discovered that Krypton hadn't been destroyed after all, and that the Kryptonians were now coming to Earth as a conquering army--and want Superman to lead the assault against humanity?

......

Or is that too much like Robert Kirkman's "Invincible"?

Or a lot more like Dragon Ball Z.

[Forsaken_One]

Only the first season of DBZ. After that there wasn't really any Sajin (or however you spell it) army attacking Earth, just random people of increasing power. Evil dictators, robots, genetically engineered supersoldiers, whatever.

[NotSuper]

How about a story where Lara Lor-Van inherits a dying Tomar Re's ring and becomes Green Lantern? With some exceptions (such as Birthright) it seems like Kal's male parents (Jor-El and Jonathan) are often portrayed as being more important than his female parents (Lara and Martha). Out of those four Lara hasn't really had much character development in a long time, which is a shame. You'd think that the woman that gave birth to the greatest hero ever and was also an astronaut would be fleshed out more.

The story I've thought of would start five years prior to Krypton's (one similar to the Birthright version with some Silver Age elements) destruction. Jor-El and Lara would be married but childless. Lara, an astronaut in Krypton's fledgling space program, would discover the dying alien Tomar Re and be given his ring. It makes sense that Lara and her team would find him first due to their very jobs. Lara would become Green Lantern and act openly (no disguise) around Krypton. Furthermore, she would realize her dream of traveling the stars by policing her space sector. However, because of the time she would need to spend away from her planet and due to the possibility that she may die, Lara and Jor-El decide not to ever have children.

Tragedy would soon strike Krypton as the scientist Jax-Ur destroys an inhabited moon of the planet and is banished to the Phantom Zone. This unfortunate event causes the space program to be shut down and worse--Lara is blamed for not preventing the tragedy, having been off in space at the time. Things would again change when Jor-El warned the Science Council of Krypton's destruction, only not to be believed. With help from Green Lantern/Lara, Jor-El is able to save the world and prove he was right. The members of the Science Council all resign out of shame (the public despises all of them now) and Krypton is left without a ruling body. In order to prevent this kind of groupthink from happening again, it is decided by Kryptonians that they will elect their own leader--Jor-El is nominated and wins.

Years later, the real conflict of the story comes from Qward. In their bid to destroy the Guardians and the GLC, they have made contacts with the Phantom Zone prisoners and arranged for their escape. After being armed with yellow power rings, the criminals rampage on Krypton, threatening to destroy everything. Only with the help of her husband--who heroically sacrifices his life to stop the criminals--is Green Lantern/Lara able to defeat them and return them to the Zone. Lara mourns her husband and life goes on. Zor-El is elected as the new leader and order is restored. Having nothing left, Lara leaves Krypton for good, wandering the galaxy instead. The story ends as she encounters a small blue world in the Sol system...

[NotSuper]

This is kind of an obvious idea, but how about a story where the Crisis never occured? Perhaps the Monitors existed in their death-like comas for a few (thousand) more years. I'd also like it to be set in the present day, so we could see who the heroes have become.

[Ontir]

I was really interested in the proposed "Metropolis Line" (The Batman proposal by Miller, of course, became the Dark Knight Returns, and the Hawkman was taken indie, and became the gruesome Void Indigo.) back in the 80's, in which the trinity was re-booted to have been active in the 40's, and still active in the (then) present. I like the idea of a Superman who's got seventy years of experience under his belt.

[NotSuper]

I like the idea of a Superman who's got seventy years of experience under his belt.
It is a good idea. I thought that it worked really well in Supreme.

[Kirayoshi]

Or a lot more like Dragon Ball Z.I can honestly say that I've never seen Dragonball Z. And yet I still lead a fulfilling and productive life. Oh well...

[Rylon]

Twenty-Two Elseworlds ideas:

Historical: Clark was raised by 18th century pirates.

Alternate Career: Clark becomes a politician instead of a superhero

Kill the Sacred Cow: Clark never had a secret identity

Mix 'n Match: Clark lives in V's England.

League of Extrodanary Public Domain Superheros: Clark fights along side Zorro.

The American Way: Superman during the Civil War

Just a few years early: Superman during WWI.

Blatant Rip-off with a twist: The Man of Tomorrow Returns. In an alternate future, Lois, the Kents, and his old friends and family are dead. Clark discards the secret identify and lives his life as Superman all the time, but it takes a toll on his sanity.

Taken from Zero Hour: Superman has a sidekick named Skyboy.

Random: Robin is Suprman's sidekick

Racial: Superman is black and raises a white female Robin after Batman's death.

Already Stated Above, Sort of: Krypton Explodes in the 31st century and Kal-El is founder of the Legion of Superheros.

Silly: Superman vs The Tick

Bad TV: Sam Beckett leaps into Clark Kent.

Good TV: Superman fights Spike from Buffy.

Reaching for ideas: Superman is found by Mal's crew from Firefly.

Literary: Superman as Musketeer.

Dumb: Superman is raised by Mae and Ben Parker.

Not an Elseworlds: Stan Lee narrarstes the next animated Superman show.

Sugested by another thread: Superman fights Cobra.

Sugested by the above: Supeman fights the Decepticons.

Alternite ocupation: Clark Kent is a spy in the tradition of 007.

That's all folks!

[NotSuper]

Blatant Rip-off with a twist: The Man of Tomorrow Returns. In an alternate future, Lois, the Kents, and his old friends and family are dead. Clark discards the secret identify and lives his life as Superman all the time, but it takes a toll on his sanity.
Believe it or not, I've had this same idea (with the same title, too). I think I had Superman either leaving Earth (which is now being done in the movie) or becoming Clark 24/7, though. I'd love to see someone like Morrison write this.

[Rylon]

Makes use of the Loony Toons properites: Superman vs Duck Dodgers

Western: Superman vs. Jesse James

Because Leo Sinks: Clark replaces Leo on the Titanic.

Believe it or not, I've had this same idea (with the same title, too). I think I had Superman either leaving Earth (which is now being done in the movie) or becoming Clark 24/7, though. I'd love to see someone like Morrison write this.Leaving Earth has been done, even before the movie. But I would like to see Clark 24/7. Morrison would be a good choice.

[Ontir]

How about a Superman who is faster than a speeding bullet, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound, more powerful than a locomotive, impenetrable by anything short of a bursting shell, and has X-ray eyes, and a brilliant mind, somewhat limited access to the advanced tech of his birth-world, but no other powers! More along the "Buck Rogers" type character he was originally intended to be.

[SuperManny]

I can honestly say that I've never seen Dragonball Z. And yet I still lead a fulfilling and productive life. Oh well...

Check it out, it's a good story...especially if you're interested in seeing a Superman-like character undergo the scenario you described.

:D

[OverMaster]

Makes use of the Loony Toons properites: Superman vs Duck Dodgers

Actually, we have had a Superman vs. Looney Tunes crossover already...

http://www.highlightzone.de/comic/comic_bilder/superman_bugs_bunny.JPG

http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/images/covers/000726/dc/SMBB3.jpg

[Kara Zor El]

Well, here's an interesting one. In 1992, DC decided to shun the traditional Annual Crossover summer fest and just do themes. For 1992, that theme was Elseworlds.

The Superman: The Man of Steel annual for 1992 was a story about a mass migration from Krypton to Earth. In that story, Jor-El is alive and well, so is Kal-El's mother. Of course, the Kryptoions have taken over Earth, and Batman's not to happy about that. But Lex certainly is....

Anyways, if you track this excellent book and read it, I warn you that it is thoroughly grounded in the Byrne Revamp mythology. It reads a lot like a Marvel What if?... Which is is greatest strength.

One of my favourite Elseworld stories this. Batman is a terrorist trying to bring down the Kryptonians who have forced their ways upon us. Clark is the first Kryptonian to be born on Earth, and Batman uses this to enlist him. Batman get one hell of a kicking in it too. It was one of the Annuals that were all Elseworlds that particular year.

My idea would be. Kal-El arrives on Earth about 75 years after an all out Nuclear War. The world is in the grip of a nuclear winter but Lex Luthor an ageing, dieing, scientist has found technologies that have rebuilt a New Metropolis. Over in Dead Gotham, the Joker who is also dieing has is king and has an army of mutants who not only raid small settlements for fresh blood and supplies but are planning an invasion of New Metropolis.
Kal is raised in the mountains by a small band of people, and when he's a young man he flies them to New Metropolis. Once near they walk up to the main gets but are turned away as unwanted, unclean mutant types. So Kal rips the doors off and marches in. Lex realizes the potential of this Superman and tests his abilities. After parrading Kal, Lex publically asks him to destroy Dead Gotham, but Kal refuses as the mountain people who brought him up are pascafists. Violance lead to the Nuclear War sort of attitude.
Lex is humiliated and faced with destruction from Joker's new weapon, The Batman, a mutant who has powers of flight, strength and war tacticts. This Batman is the general of Dead Gotham's armies and is rumoured to drink the blood of his victims.
The Dead Gotham army attacks and Metropolis looks set to fall. However Lex has discovered Kal's weaknes to Kryptonite and has some. He uses it to weaken Kal and threatons to torture his adopted family in front of him if he does not destroy Dead Gotham's armies and bring him the heads of The Joker and The Batman. One of his adopted family could be Lana Lang and Kal can't bear to see her hurt and agrees.
Off Kal goes and rips the army to peices all on his own. Batman manages to escape to Gotham kidnapping Lex's wife Lois lane who he has the hots for, and his spies have revealed about the kryptonite weaknes. Joker knows where to get some, the Riddler has an emerald pallace in Dead Gotham, which is actually carved from kryptonite. The Riddler is the head of the secret police. Kal arrives and is brought down by The Batman. Catwoman is one of Batman's super soldiers and she loves him and is jealous of Lois Lane and even more so when Batman decides to marry her against her will. So she frees Kal, who then defeats Batman and the Joker. But he can't destroy Gotham, because there are good people there. He and Catwoman hatch a scheme to make it seem as though Dead Gotham has been leveled using the Riddler's mind riddle technology and beaming it at New Metropolis.
Catwoman then frees the Mountain people including Lana Lang and Kal has a final face off with Lex in his battlesuit. Kal deafeats him and Proffesor Hamilton becomes ruler of New Metropolis. Kal flies back to Dead Gotham with Catwoman and Lana and becomes its leader, and slowley, with the help of the people including three brothers, Dick, Jason and Tim who are powerful mutants, transform Dead Gotham into a shining city of hope. The End?

[Rylon]

Actually, we have had a Superman vs. Looney Tunes crossover already...Must have been time travel. Someone at DC saw my post and went back in time to make it happen retroactively. ;)

What?

Another idea:

Australian: Superman in a Sunburnt Country.

[Green Arrow Jr.]

What if Kal-El, had been a girl named Kara or something else Kryptonian?

What is Superman had been a woman? Krypton's last daughter.
Elseworld's Finest is the closest you get with Supergirl & Wonder woman in the JSA and Elvis is the President of the USA.

[NotSuper]

Kill the Sacred Cow: Clark never had a secret identity

Now that's a good idea. I've often wondered how Kal would deal with the world if he had to be Superman 24/7.

On that note, how about a Superman that comes to Earth as an adult (having been raised on Krypton)? Would a being from such an advanced utopia consider it ethical to interfer in human lives? Would he leave the planet for fear of having people become dependent on him? Or would he create a utopia for human beings?

[Legato]

What If Superman killed Bruce's parents?

Remember the first episode of Smallville whare Clark's arrivle was the cause of the meteor shower that killed Lana's parents. Well same scenario but replace Lana with a young Bruce Wayne.

[NotSuper]

What If Superman killed Bruce's parents?

Remember the first episode of Smallville whare Clark's arrivle was the cause of the meteor shower that killed Lana's parents. Well same scenario but replace Lana with a young Bruce Wayne.
That's a unique idea. Furthermore, you could have Bruce find out about Kal by examining the meteorite and discovering all about Krypton. This might result in Bruce becoming more like Luthor...

Incidentally, I've really enjoyed this thread. There are so many great ideas here.

[Rylon]

Kill the Other Sacrade Cow: Clark never puts on a costume, and dosen't call himself Superman, but he still has powers and he still saves people.

[Kara Zor El]

I got another idea. Quite simple. What if Kal-El was beamed to Earth in a similar way to Superboy Prime. The Earth was in the same situation as the Matrix Movie. But because Supes is beamed he appears inside the Matrix but is not connected to it like everyone else. He is sort of invisable to the programme but can interact with it. He can't can't gain sustanance from the food because it isn't real but doesn't need it because the energy of the Matrix powers him in the same way as the Sun would. He grows up in Kansas etc. Goes to Metropolis and makes an enemy of Lex and of course the agents come after him because people shouldn't be invisable or be able to fly. Supes eventually he learns the truth and manages to convince Lex of it He and Lex work together to bring the Matrix down. Supes and Lex have the power to help build a new future outside the Matrix. Batman could be some nut who knows the truth and tries to convince people but isn't believed. He could be taken out by agents early on but he manges to get a clue to Supes before hand.

[Lorendiac]

Kill the Other Sacrade Cow: Clark never puts on a costume, and dosen't call himself Superman, but he still has powers and he still saves people.

Hasn't that been done at least at least a few times? Warren Ellis's "JLA/Planetary: Terra Occulta" springs to mind. He wore regular street clothes, and friends and foes alike kept calling him "Mister Kent."

And then there was Roger Stern's "Superman: A Nation Divided" where "Atticus Kent" was a soldier in the Union Army in the Civil War. No secret identity, no big S on his chest, just a military uniform and a willingness to use his powers (as he figured out what they were) to win the war a couple of years ahead of schedule, and even prevent the assassination of Abraham Lincoln.

P.S. Looking back through this thread, I discovered I had somehow missed the post in which you suggested an Elseworlds called "The American Way" in which Superman is involved in the Civil War. So Roger Stern addressed two of the things you wanted, in the same Elseworlds! :)

[Rylon]

Roger Stern addressed two of the things you wanted, in the same Elseworlds! :)The more I post, the longer my read pile gets, and thinner my wallet becomes.

I'm thinking this is a good thing.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

One of my favourite Elseworld stories this. Batman is a terrorist trying to bring down the Kryptonians who have forced their ways upon us. Clark is the first Kryptonian to be born on Earth, and Batman uses this to enlist him. Batman get one hell of a kicking in it too. It was one of the Annuals that were all Elseworlds that particular year.

My idea would be. Kal-El arrives on Earth about 75 years after an all out Nuclear War. The world is in the grip of a nuclear winter but Lex Luthor an ageing, dieing, scientist has found technologies that have rebuilt a New Metropolis. Over in Dead Gotham, the Joker who is also dieing has is king and has an army of mutants who not only raid small settlements for fresh blood and supplies but are planning an invasion of New Metropolis.
Kal is raised in the mountains by a small band of people, and when he's a young man he flies them to New Metropolis. Once near they walk up to the main gets but are turned away as unwanted, unclean mutant types. So Kal rips the doors off and marches in. Lex realizes the potential of this Superman and tests his abilities. After parrading Kal, Lex publically asks him to destroy Dead Gotham, but Kal refuses as the mountain people who brought him up are pascafists. Violance lead to the Nuclear War sort of attitude.
Lex is humiliated and faced with destruction from Joker's new weapon, The Batman, a mutant who has powers of flight, strength and war tacticts. This Batman is the general of Dead Gotham's armies and is rumoured to drink the blood of his victims.
The Dead Gotham army attacks and Metropolis looks set to fall. However Lex has discovered Kal's weaknes to Kryptonite and has some. He uses it to weaken Kal and threatons to torture his adopted family in front of him if he does not destroy Dead Gotham's armies and bring him the heads of The Joker and The Batman. One of his adopted family could be Lana Lang and Kal can't bear to see her hurt and agrees.
Off Kal goes and rips the army to peices all on his own. Batman manages to escape to Gotham kidnapping Lex's wife Lois lane who he has the hots for, and his spies have revealed about the kryptonite weaknes. Joker knows where to get some, the Riddler has an emerald pallace in Dead Gotham, which is actually carved from kryptonite. The Riddler is the head of the secret police. Kal arrives and is brought down by The Batman. Catwoman is one of Batman's super soldiers and she loves him and is jealous of Lois Lane and even more so when Batman decides to marry her against her will. So she frees Kal, who then defeats Batman and the Joker. But he can't destroy Gotham, because there are good people there. He and Catwoman hatch a scheme to make it seem as though Dead Gotham has been leveled using the Riddler's mind riddle technology and beaming it at New Metropolis.
Catwoman then frees the Mountain people including Lana Lang and Kal has a final face off with Lex in his battlesuit. Kal deafeats him and Proffesor Hamilton becomes ruler of New Metropolis. Kal flies back to Dead Gotham with Catwoman and Lana and becomes its leader, and slowley, with the help of the people including three brothers, Dick, Jason and Tim who are powerful mutants, transform Dead Gotham into a shining city of hope. The End?

A very interesting idea, I must say.

[Kara Zor El]

Why thank you Sir! I'm very fond of Elseworlds.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Why thank you Sir! I'm very fond of Elseworlds.

You're always welcome. If you ever decide to write a fanfic, PM me with a link or something.

[Kara Zor El]

Cheers, will do. Don't think I will though. I'm a professional writer with a lot of deadlines to meet. I'd like to break into comics one day though. So maybe, one day, I'll be able to send you a copy of the finished article, which would be a pleasure. Thanks again.

[NotSuper]

Has there ever been a story where Kal-El's ship landed on New Genesis and he was raised by Highfather? I think that'd be pretty cool, a reversal of The Dark Side.

[Kara Zor El]

Has there ever been a story where Kal-El's ship landed on New Genesis and he was raised by Highfather? I think that'd be pretty cool, a reversal of The Dark Side.
I don't think there has but it would be great and we'd get another version of Superman Heroclix to boot!

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Cheers, will do. Don't think I will though. I'm a professional writer with a lot of deadlines to meet. I'd like to break into comics one day though. So maybe, one day, I'll be able to send you a copy of the finished article, which would be a pleasure. Thanks again.

I see. And perhaps, if I ever finish it, I'll send you a copy of my first pathetic serious attempt to write a Superman fanfic. Not a professional writer myself, but what the hell, it's been something I've been wanting to do for a long time now.

[i_mmmchocolate]

My Elseworlds idea: Kal-El lands in Hispaniola before Columbus' arrival. Hispaniola was where a small indigenous population resided before the Europeans arrived (led to massive deaths caused by disease and slavery). But what if Kal-El landed their pre-conquest...? How would the 'New World' have turned out?

[Lorendiac]

My Elseworlds idea: Kal-El lands in Hispaniola before Columbus' arrival. Hispaniola was where a small indigenous population resided before the Europeans arrived (led to massive deaths caused by disease and slavery). But what if Kal-El landed their pre-conquest...? How would the 'New World' have turned out?

Interesting. He might have prevented the slavery - on Hispaniola, at least - but I rather doubt he could have prevented the massive deaths that were due to disease, once "first contact" had been made between Europeans and American Indians. It wouldn't occur to him that this was a problem in time to try to establish a quarantine. What would a boy growing up on a Caribbean island know about the germ theory of disease? (About as much as he would have known if he had grown up in Spain or anywhere else in the 15th Century: Nothing!)

[Ontir]

I'd like to see a "Superman" who landed on Earth in 1920, Smallville (at age 3), grows up with Lana Lang, goes to college, then arrives in Metropolis as a 21 year-old man in 1938. Gets a job at the Daily Star, where he meets Lois Lane, and falls in love with her. The story carries forward, to a climactic battle with Lex Luthor, around 1958, and he appears to be dead. Then, around 2000, he returns to Earth, explaining where he's been to his wife, Lois, who's now 80, but Superman still looks about 40. The two try and figure out how to re-build their life together, as Superman returns to his career.

[Kara Zor El]

I see. And perhaps, if I ever finish it, I'll send you a copy of my first pathetic serious attempt to write a Superman fanfic. Not a professional writer myself, but what the hell, it's been something I've been wanting to do for a long time now.

Go for it. I'll look forward to it.

[i_mmmchocolate]

Interesting. He might have prevented the slavery - on Hispaniola, at least - but I rather doubt he could have prevented the massive deaths that were due to disease, once "first contact" had been made between Europeans and American Indians. It wouldn't occur to him that this was a problem in time to try to establish a quarantine. What would a boy growing up on a Caribbean island know about the germ theory of disease? (About as much as he would have known if he had grown up in Spain or anywhere else in the 15th Century: Nothing!)

Hmmm, good point! Maybe he should land in pre-conquest Mexico (a place explored AFTER Hispaniola).

How would the Aztecs have reacted to this (given their spiritual beliefs)?

Cortes wouldn't have been able to conquer them as easily as he did that's for sure..

[NotSuper]

I have an idea that involves Superman but doesn't have him in the story. Just imagine if the parents of the Big Three never had children. Jor-El and Lara never conceive and Krypton has no survivors. The Waynes never have children and thus are not killed on the way home from a movie. Hippolyta never molds a daughter out of clay. This is much bigger than a world without Superman--this is a world without the Trinity.

[Ontir]

Superman: 2938

As the Legion of Super-Heroes gather to throw a Millenium Ball for their hero, his greatest and most deadly foes team up to destroy them all!

[dupersuper]

I wonder what a boy with no knowledge of the germ theory of disease would make of his microscopic vision...or, being raised with native cosmological beliefs, his telescopic vision...

[Ontir]

These are reasons that Superboy SHOULD be re-made a part of Superman's past! These things have never been addressed, and they should be!

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Go for it. I'll look forward to it.

Thanx. I'll keep you posted.

[Deskad]

Superman lands in post communist Russia.

Superman lands in ossetia.

[Rylon]

Double post

[Rylon]

Suggested by a (more) recent thread: Lara goes with Kal-El instead of staying behind with Jor-El. This could be interesting. Lara would have to raise her kid, learn a new language and a new culture. Superman would really have an immigrant experience. Except, unlike most immigrants, he and his mom would be the most powerful people on the planet.

[Tobias March]

Film Noir Supes :) What if Supes were to intentionally let himself go and become an unshaven, bulky Mike Hammer type character. He rarely uses his powers, concentrating entirely on the detection skills he earned as young cub reporter Clark Kent.

I just had this image in my head the other day of an overweight Superman in a white shirt, black tie, greased back hair and hairy knuckles :)

[Rylon]

Alternate History: Superman lives in a world where the US lost WWII.

And While Were on the Subject: Superman grows-up in ocupied China.

Historical II: Superman lives in Ancient Greece.

Cross-Over: JSA/Invaders

General Weirdness: Clark is a world renowed drummer on popular rock band. :)

Paranoia DC: Superman is the ruler of an underground complex where everyone is cloned and people have security clearances based on ROYGBIV. ;)

Bleak: Clark lives in an industrial wastland. His powers, while great, are given a run for their money by the powerful machinery at the government’s disposial.

Fun: Clark’s day job is a Vaudville act.

Indigenous: Clark grows-up in Mezzo-America

Cross-Over II: Superboy and the Leagion of Super-Heroes/Guardians of the Galaxy. (Yah, I know. “Who are the Guardians of the Galaxy?” Sigh.)

Superman Red: Superman, who has consistantly championed the rights of the oppressed, is branded a communist durning the McCarthy Era. He trys to shake the lable by adopting the slogan “Truth, Justice, and the American Way.” But in the process, the little guy gets ignored, and Superman has to weigh what’s more important: shaking the communist label or doing what he belives in.

Hey, If Stan can do it: Superman meets Joe Shuster and Jerry Siegel.

[marshal99]

If the rocket carrying superman had landed on Paradise Island , Superman would be known as Wonder warrior. :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v513/marshal99/wonderwarrior.jpg

[StrikeForce Albert]

If the rocket carrying superman had landed on Paradise Island , Superman would be known as Wonder warrior. :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v513/marshal99/wonderwarrior.jpg


Think I saw that guy in a Gay Pride Parade.......I'm not joking

[The Batman]

I'd be curious to see an Elseworlds where Kryptonians don't look like humans and what that might mean for Superman.

[Augusto]

All of these have been done. Some, like the first one, multiple times.

When was published the twin story?:eek:

[Augusto]

What if Superman, instead of being the undersexed wonder he is now, was a lady's man? What if the world was then full of generations of babies growing up to have his powers (depending on the genetics)?

He currently is wussy fixated on Lois and won't even make a move on Diana in a 1000 years together.

This actually happened inside continuity, not an elseworld:29862

that before the wedding with Lois. Let's say Superman is, besides his powers, faithfull to his true love.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

I wonder if he'll go back to WW after Lois dies. Sounds like a logical choice.

[marshal99]

I wonder if he'll go back to WW after Lois dies. Sounds like a logical choice.

Well , he did in the superman : distant fires elseworld when Lois died along with most of the world.

[Alex L]

But he didn't in DC: One Million.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Well , he did in the superman : distant fires elseworld when Lois died along with most of the world.

And that pretty much happens in most of the Elseworlds stories, right?

Thing is, that comics are not like mangas: we don't really see the characters age.

[Lorendiac]

I'd be curious to see an Elseworlds where Kryptonians don't look like humans and what that might mean for Superman.

I offered my opinion a few months ago in a thread someone started on Newsarama, asking much the same question about what would have happened if Kal-El hadn't been lucky enough to look like a human baby boy? My basic attitude was: "If Superman didn't look human, he wouldn't be on Earth in the first place. If the typical Kryptonian looked like a purple octopus with big yellow polka dots on its hide, then Jor-El would have carefully programmed the spaceship to carry his son Kal-El to some other planet where the typical member of the local dominant and sentient species looked like a purple octopus with big yellow polka dots on its hide!"

My opinion is supported by Pre-Crisis stories that made it absolutely clear that Jor-El knew what Earthmen looked like before he sent his son in this direction, and by a scene in John Byrne's "Man of Steel" miniseries that made it clear that Jor-El still knew exactly what we looked like in the Post-Crisis version when he chose to send his son here.

I have only read Mark Waid's "Birthright" once. In Waid's version, I think it may have been sheer luck of the draw that Baby Kal-El ended up on a planet where he could easily fit right in and socialize normally as he grew up, passing for a native human being. But I tend to ignore "Birthright" in general, and on this subject in particular I think the old version was much better and more logical: There's no "lucky coincidence" involved at all! Just careful planning! Superman fits in on this planet because his concerned father shopped around with robot probes as much as necessary in order to find a planet where he could fit in! So he would grow up reasonably "well-adjusted" and "stable," as a member in good standing of the local society! :)

[Adrian Tullberg]

Empire Krypton.

Jor-El's submission that the planet would explode was dismissed by the ruling council, but the Military performed their own independed verification, and found that Jor-El's calculations were somewhat optimistic.

Within days, the entire military complex, along with a few essential civilians that were 'persuaded' to accompany them, Jor-El being among them, evacuated Krypton.

This caravan of military might went from world to world, securing safe zones, subjugating the native populace. Over the decades, the nomadic army not only survived, but grew.

Then they encountered Earth ...

[Lorendiac]

Empire Krypton.

Why call it Empire Krypton? The phrase that popped into my head as I read that summary was:

Battlestar Kryptonica! ;)

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Empire Krypton.

Jor-El's submission that the planet would explode was dismissed by the ruling council, but the Military performed their own independed verification, and found that Jor-El's calculations were somewhat optimistic.

Within days, the entire military complex, along with a few essential civilians that were 'persuaded' to accompany them, Jor-El being among them, evacuated Krypton.

This caravan of military might went from world to world, securing safe zones, subjugating the native populace. Over the decades, the nomadic army not only survived, but grew.

Then they encountered Earth ...

A really nice idea. I'd like to see that in an Elseworlds.

[heretic]

I know this thread has been done before in different forums, but I always wondered how it would be if we focused on one character.

My Elseworld story would be if Supeman had landed in the Roman Empire, and had to serve in the roman legions.
One. Single. Word.:DRAKA!

Yes, I am thinking of dumping him among the Serfs (feral or otherwise). Why do you ask?

HTG (who considered a Sailor Moon AH along similar lines as well)

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Draka? I guess I missed something here. Could you elaborate?

[Lorendiac]

Draka? I guess I missed something here. Could you elaborate?

He's talking about a series of SF novels by S.M. Stirling. I've read two out of four within the last several months, as it happens. (Unfortunately, the ones I've read are, in this order, #4 and #3 in the series. One of these days I suppose I will find copies of #2 and #1. :))

In an alternate timeline, a bunch of Tories from the southern colonies on the eastern seaboard of North America ended up fleeing to South Africa in the wake of the Revolutionary War that created the USA as an independent nation (or, originally, more of a coalition of independent "states"). These slave-owning, hard-hitting, clever guys ended up calling themselves Draka (in honor of Sir Francis Drake or something) and gradually expanded further and further north, taking over the entire continent of Africa during the 19th Century, then large portions of Europe and Asia, and ultimately the entire world (around the very end of the 20th Century). You could think of them as White Supremacists, more or less in the tradition of Nazi Germany, only a lot smarter, better organized, more patient about carefully waiting to fight battles and wars they had a favorable chance of winning, more innovative in the life sciences, a lot better at training their children from early in life to develop their athletic and martial abilities (strength and reflexes and marksmanship and tactical thinking and so forth) to a remarkable degree by constant practice, and so forth. (On the plus side: For what it's worth, I don't remember them having any special prejudice against Jews. Either you were considered a member of the Draka race -- and it was possible to be "adopted" in -- or else you weren't. In which case you were inferior. Plain and simple!)

Anyone who was not considered a member of the Race was a "serf" (if obedient to the whims of his Draka owner) or else a "feral" or "wild stock," meaning a person who was so foolish as to think he could live a happy life without a Draka telling him what to do every day!

After they conquered the world, the Draka used genetic engineering to make sure that the descendants of their "serf" population would be naturally subservient to Draka wishes and pheromones, while simultaneously genetically engineering their own offspring to have superhuman physical strength and endurance and so forth, as well as the ability to manipulate their own pheromone production in order to deliberately have a brainwashing effect upon people who spent too much time in close proximity to them.

Interestingly enough, when heretic mentioned Draka in response to a post about dumping Superman in the Roman Empire of two thousand years ago, I initially envisioned Superman making himself Emperor, then having a wife and lots of concubines and producing numerous children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, etc., who would have superhuman abilities (although getting diluted over time) and would set themselves up as a self-appointed Master Race much along the lines of how Stirling's Draka regarded lesser mortals as livestock. Then he explained he meant Superman to land among the serfs (in a Draka culture) and I realized he had something different in mind . . .

[Ontir]

I wonder if this is where JMS got the name of the Shadows servant race: the Drakh?

[captain_unimpressive]

Has anyone mentioned Superman: True Brit yet?
I can't remember the publishing specs, but it was more of a comedy, and the general idea was that Jor-El had actually calculated where on Earth to send him (rather than just sending him to Earth, or sending him to another planet and missing... I can't remember the exact canonical explanation) and sent him, to paraphrase the book, "the planet's greatest nation... England." He is found amongst the crops of a farming couple from Kent, and is adopted by them.
However, rather than encourage him to develop his powers once he discovers them, they tell him to suppress them, and so he goes on with his life.
Later, he becomes Superman, but does terribly, having no training in the task of being a hero. When he does find success, the British government gives him a number of "great trials", the terrible failures of which lead to some great scenes: When he tries to fix the British deficit by taking coal from the country's mines and crushing it into truckloads of diamonds, it ends up worsening things as the diamonds are so numerous that they are now worthless, so much so that they were much more valuable when they were coal (which is practical). As he tells this to Superman (who, might I had, had a really cool-looking costume which featured an old-fashioned, more regal-looking cape, and the Union Jack stripes across his chest acting as a background to the S-shield), several tragic images appear of poor families shoveling diamonds into their stoves.
And, when he plays a cricket game as a one-man team against a major-league group (a la Bugs Bunny) he becomes extremely nervous when he comes to bat (stemming from a childhood incident) he accidentally lets go of the bat, impaling a baseman with it. A minor bit of exposition explains that this man (named Bruce) with the bat in his stomach would later avenge his injury under a new identity: The Batman.
Sounds stupid, but it was cool when I read it.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

He's talking about a series of SF novels by S.M. Stirling. I've read two out of four within the last several months, as it happens. (Unfortunately, the ones I've read are, in this order, #4 and #3 in the series. One of these days I suppose I will find copies of #2 and #1. :))

In an alternate timeline, a bunch of Tories from the southern colonies on the eastern seaboard of North America ended up fleeing to South Africa in the wake of the Revolutionary War that created the USA as an independent nation (or, originally, more of a coalition of independent "states"). These slave-owning, hard-hitting, clever guys ended up calling themselves Draka (in honor of Sir Francis Drake or something) and gradually expanded further and further north, taking over the entire continent of Africa during the 19th Century, then large portions of Europe and Asia, and ultimately the entire world (around the very end of the 20th Century). You could think of them as White Supremacists, more or less in the tradition of Nazi Germany, only a lot smarter, better organized, more patient about carefully waiting to fight battles and wars they had a favorable chance of winning, more innovative in the life sciences, a lot better at training their children from early in life to develop their athletic and martial abilities (strength and reflexes and marksmanship and tactical thinking and so forth) to a remarkable degree by constant practice, and so forth. (On the plus side: For what it's worth, I don't remember them having any special prejudice against Jews. Either you were considered a member of the Draka race -- and it was possible to be "adopted" in -- or else you weren't. In which case you were inferior. Plain and simple!)

Anyone who was not considered a member of the Race was a "serf" (if obedient to the whims of his Draka owner) or else a "feral" or "wild stock," meaning a person who was so foolish as to think he could live a happy life without a Draka telling him what to do every day!

After they conquered the world, the Draka used genetic engineering to make sure that the descendants of their "serf" population would be naturally subservient to Draka wishes and pheromones, while simultaneously genetically engineering their own offspring to have superhuman physical strength and endurance and so forth, as well as the ability to manipulate their own pheromone production in order to deliberately have a brainwashing effect upon people who spent too much time in close proximity to them.

Interestingly enough, when heretic mentioned Draka in response to a post about dumping Superman in the Roman Empire of two thousand years ago, I initially envisioned Superman making himself Emperor, then having a wife and lots of concubines and producing numerous children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, etc., who would have superhuman abilities (although getting diluted over time) and would set themselves up as a self-appointed Master Race much along the lines of how Stirling's Draka regarded lesser mortals as livestock. Then he explained he meant Superman to land among the serfs (in a Draka culture) and I realized he had something different in mind . . .

WOW. Thanx for the very thorough explanation, Lorendiac. And an interesting story indeed for an Elseworlds, which would somewhat take Superman to his roots: champion of the oppressed (if I understood this whole thing correctly, that is).

[Froggy]

Has anyone mentioned Superman: True Brit yet?
I can't remember the publishing specs, but it was more of a comedy, and the general idea was that Jor-El had actually calculated where on Earth to send him (rather than just sending him to Earth, or sending him to another planet and missing... I can't remember the exact canonical explanation) and sent him, to paraphrase the book, "the planet's greatest nation... England." He is found amongst the crops of a farming couple from Kent, and is adopted by them.
However, rather than encourage him to develop his powers once he discovers them, they tell him to suppress them, and so he goes on with his life.
Later, he becomes Superman, but does terribly, having no training in the task of being a hero. When he does find success, the British government gives him a number of "great trials", the terrible failures of which lead to some great scenes: When he tries to fix the British deficit by taking coal from the country's mines and crushing it into truckloads of diamonds, it ends up worsening things as the diamonds are so numerous that they are now worthless, so much so that they were much more valuable when they were coal (which is practical). As he tells this to Superman (who, might I had, had a really cool-looking costume which featured an old-fashioned, more regal-looking cape, and the Union Jack stripes across his chest acting as a background to the S-shield), several tragic images appear of poor families shoveling diamonds into their stoves.
And, when he plays a cricket game as a one-man team against a major-league group (a la Bugs Bunny) he becomes extremely nervous when he comes to bat (stemming from a childhood incident) he accidentally lets go of the bat, impaling a baseman with it. A minor bit of exposition explains that this man (named Bruce) with the bat in his stomach would later avenge his injury under a new identity: The Batman.
Sounds stupid, but it was cool when I read it.


lmao, i soo wanna read that now

[Augusto]

[QUOTE=Kilgore Trout;3115377]I'd like to see a story where Superman is mourning the death of Lois...

Or how Superman reacts to being a father...

Or what he will be like when he's an old man...
QUOTE]

In 1991, all DC annuals, were part of Armaggedon arc. There, in one of the Superman annuals, you have what you are looking for: Lois dies in the miscarriage of Superman's baby.:(

[4thHorseman]

I've wanted to write an "elseworlds" with the death of Lois. Have Lois die of a freak accident with Bizarro, Superman gets there too late, completely freaks out and beats Bizarro to death. He goes into hiding, Batman finds him, Superman discusses with him about how villains get worse the longer their around, but finally gives in and returns and attacks Lexcorp knowing Bizarro was unleashed because of Luthor.

Also had thoughts of:

What if Luthor was sent to Earth with the superman powers, with Clark as the Kentcorp finances? Clark still had all the same moral aspects, and felt he should do something to stop the evil that was Luthor trying to control the world with his powers.

What if Clark was actually a human, and was sent to Krypton to be raised but didn't have any special powers under a red sun? Or maybe he does? How does he interact there, even with the planet still on the brink of exploding?

[mattx110]

umm...4th horseman ruined my fun. i was posting what i thought was an awesome idea "clark kent was born in kansas and sent in a homemade rocket from an exploding earth to krypton" and he's got it right there in the post before mine...

what if kara landed first?

how would the world react if superman wasn't part of the "trinity" but started superheroing late in the game after tons of heroes had already been established?

what if luthor won once and for all and wound up becoming the most well-respected world leader ever? a pacifist napoleon?

what if sinestro was kal-el's mentor?
what if superman used his powers for leading a rock band?
this is fun.

[Lorendiac]

What if Clark was actually a human, and was sent to Krypton to be raised but didn't have any special powers under a red sun? Or maybe he does? How does he interact there, even with the planet still on the brink of exploding?

Didn't Steve Gerber already do some of that in his Elseworlds "Superman: Last Son of Earth"?

I haven't read it, but I've heard about it. Clark is sent to Krypton because his brilliant scientist father figured out Earth was facing catastrophe. Krypton may not have been the best place to send Clark, however, because he definitely doesn't get powers there -- on the contrary, the heavier gravity makes him almost helpless until Jor-El builds an exoskeleton to let him move around.

[4thHorseman]

Didn't Steve Gerber already do some of that in his Elseworlds "Superman: Last Son of Earth"?

I haven't read it, but I've heard about it. Clark is sent to Krypton because his brilliant scientist father figured out Earth was facing catastrophe. Krypton may not have been the best place to send Clark, however, because he definitely doesn't get powers there -- on the contrary, the heavier gravity makes him almost helpless until Jor-El builds an exoskeleton to let him move around.

Ah, I see what you mean. Looked it up:

"Superman: Last Son of Earth (2000) - Baby Clark Kent arrives on the planet Krypton in a rocket from the doomed planet Earth. While struggling to find his place there as an adult, he discovers a Green Lantern power ring. (2 issues)
Sequel: Superman: Last Stand On Krypton (2003) " - Wikipedia