Should college athletes get paid?

[Wyclefdoug]

Last night the Reggie Bush thing came on TV briefly, and when it did I said they should just pay them already and put an end to all this. My girlfriend, who was on the crew team in college and received scholarship money to do so said, they already are paid.

Basically, I went on to say, from top to bottom in college, do players deserve more money then the tuition and other misc. school costs they already get, no. But at school like USC and other big time football and basketball schools, is it fair that their respective colleges make millions of dollars off them, yet the players responsible for all that money get none of those millions?

I don't think it is. And I especially don't think it's fair that they sale their jerseys, without the players last name on it and the school and manufactrer get all the money. That isn't fair at all.

So my question to all of you is simple. Should NCAA athletes get paid beyond their scholarship, and if yes, what do you suggest they get extra.

[The Son of Arzonist]

Should medical students get paid extra? What about psych majors or math students? Athletes already have it on easy street. I think the NCAA should make their rules even more strict.

[macul]

Hard to say. I wouldn't mind them getting something (not that they don't now...), but it should be set by the NCAA and should not be determined by how much revenue the school brings in. Otherwise you'll create a system that allows the football factories to really bury the rest (even more than they currently do).

[macul]

Should medical students get paid extra? What about psych majors or math students? Athletes already have it on easy street. I think the NCAA should make their rules even more strict.

The difference is that many students on athletic scholarships are prohibited from working whereas your medical student is not.

[EZMOHR]

They should have the abilities to get jobs or the such if desired. They are paid in scholarships for the true "Student Athletes" to get an education, and if they are of the Reggie Bush (ie players who will goto the pros) they are paid in the ability to use state of the art collegiate facilities and get the best training to succeed in the pros. That is good enough pay for college athletes.

[Wyclefdoug]

The difference is that many students on athletic scholarships are prohibited from working whereas your medical student is not.

Agreed. I don't care if it's fair or not. Joe Paterno and the football team did more for a PSU degree then any doctor ever did or ever will. College athletics make the college world go round, and I think they should be compensated fairly. I just don't know what fair is.

[DracoMalfoy]

Absolutely not. It's an extracurricular activity. I sure as hell didn't get paid for my volunteer work at the AIDS clinic.... :mad:

[DracoMalfoy]

Agreed. I don't care if it's fair or not. Joe Paterno and the football team did more for a PSU degree then any doctor ever did or ever will. College athletics make the sportsworld go round, and I think they should be compensated fairly. I just don't know what fair is.

You ACTUALLY think athletes work HARDER for their PSU degree than medical student, who spends nearly a DECADE, for their medical degree with an income lower than a McDonald's teenage employee?! :(

[Wyclefdoug]

Absolutely not. It's an extracurricular activity. I sure as hell didn't get paid for my volunteer work at the AIDS clinic.... :mad:

You also probably weren't responsible for bringing in millions of dollars every time your team was in a bowl game. I think that's the point people miss. Yeah they get a $80,000 degree, but they bought that school a 8 million dollar so and so building.

[Wyclefdoug]

You ACTUALLY think athletes work HARDER for their PSU degree than medical student, who spends nearly a DECADE, for their medical degree with an income lower than a McDonald's teenage employee?! :(

Sorry, I didn't mean do more as in more work. I mean the fact that Joe Pa and that football team are so good, that is what makes the degree look so viable to future employeers.

When people think of PSU, they think football, not medical school.

[DracoMalfoy]

You also probably weren't responsible for bringing in millions of dollars every time your team was in a bowl game. I think that's the point people miss. Yeah they get a $80,000 degree, but they bought that school a 8 million dollar so and so building.

And musical students often bring millions in revenue for recitals. As do artists for artwork.

[Wyclefdoug]

And musical students often bring millions in revenue for recitals. As do artists for artwork.

If that's the case, they should be compensated as well.

But what about people selling players jerseys, yet the player gets nothing from that.

And call me crazy, but I bet USC's football team brings in tons more money then any recital did. I don't know for sure, but it's a hunch.

[The Son of Arzonist]

If that's the case, they should be compensated as well.

But what about people selling players jerseys, yet the player gets nothing from that.

you have a point there.

[GozertheGozarian]

Paying players would make them professional sports and subject to federal regulation and competition from the NFL, NBA, MLB, and other pro sports. It would also disqualify many for the Olympics.

[Wyclefdoug]

Paying players would make them professional sports and subject to federal regulation and competition from the NFL, NBA, MLB, and other pro sports. It would also disqualify many for the Olympics.

It's also important to remember this. In baseball, if you don't want to go to college, you can go play in the minors and get paid if you are good enough. For basketball and football, you have no other option but to go to college. The NFL makes you wait 3 years after your HS graduation and basketball just changed to 1 year mandatory college I believe. There are some kids they are taking money away from. Why is that fair?

[The Humanist Hero]

Sorry, I didn't mean do more as in more work. I mean the fact that Joe Pa and that football team are so good, that is what makes the degree look so viable to future employeers.

When people think of PSU, they think football, not medical school.
I'm sorry, but the first part of your post is ridiculous.

If you get a degree in engineering from Penn State and you apply for a job at some company, the record of the Penn State football team does not come into the picture. There are plenty of universities with bad football teams like Vanderbilt or Duke whose reputations are much greater than other universities with great football teams like Florida State, or LSU, or dozens of others. Unless you were on the Penn State football team and the prospective employer is the NFL, then the quality of the football team has no relevance to your degree or your viability in the job market.

[Wyclefdoug]

I'm sorry, but the first part of your post is ridiculous.

If you get a degree in engineering from Penn State and you apply for a job at some company, the record of the Penn State football team does not come into the picture. There are plenty of universities with bad football teams like Vanderbilt or Duke whose reputations are much greater than other universities with great football teams like Florida State, or LSU, or dozens of others. Unless you were on the Penn State football team and the prospective employer is the NFL, then the quality of the football team has no relevance to your degree or your viability in the job market.

I beg to differ. Take a school like Gonzaga. If it weren't for basketball, how far would the knowledge of the existence of that school spread. Not very far. The fact that they are in the news spreads awareness that Gonzaga even exists, and if someone applies for a job in the East, it's a lot more likely that someone recognizes Gonzaga now as opposed to a few years ago, before they were ever in the news.

[DracoMalfoy]

I beg to differ. Take a school like Gonzaga. If it weren't for basketball, how far would the knowledge of the existence of that school spread. Not very far. The fact that they are in the news spreads awareness that Gonzaga even exists, and if someone applies for a job in the East, it's a lot more likely that someone recognizes Gonzaga now as opposed to a few years ago, before they were ever in the news.

You're referring to networking connections (which admittedly sports has ample amounts) that allows players access to many employers even if they aren't remotely qualified.

[The Humanist Hero]

I beg to differ. Take a school like Gonzaga. If it weren't for basketball, how far would the knowledge of the existence of that school spread. Not very far. The fact that they are in the news spreads awareness that Gonzaga even exists, and if someone applies for a job in the East, it's a lot more likely that someone recognizes Gonzaga now as opposed to a few years ago, before they were ever in the news.
So what? So because they know that the school has a good basketball team that somehow reflects on the quality of the graduates of that school which is what the employer is concerned about? Are they going to give more consideration to the guy that graduated to a school with a good football team or a guy who went to a school with top-notch academics?

[Wyclefdoug]

You're referring to networking connections (which admittedly sports has ample amounts) that allows players access to many employers even if they aren't remotely qualified.

I'm not just talking about players getting jobs, I'm talking about anybody from that school.

If someone came from Gonzaga to apply for a job in NYC 10 years ago, most employeers would look at Gonzaga and go, huh? Now that they are in the news all the time because of hoops, if someone applies now, suddenly when the employeer sees Gonzaga as the school they know something about it.

Sports did that. Not that school itself.

[Wyclefdoug]

So what? So because they know that the school has a good basketball team that somehow reflects on the quality of the graduates of that school which is what the employer is concerned about? Are they going to give more consideration to the guy that graduated to a school with a good football team or a guy who went to a school with top-notch academics?

No, but if you were employeer, would you be more likely to hire someone from a school you never heard of, or one that you have heard of?

[Sir Tim Drake]

I'd rather they spent the money on things that actually advance the educational mission of the school, such as giving scholarships to lower-income students, or paying larger stipends to graduate students. If I heard that a certain Midwestern school had decided to pay its student athletes, I would start wondering where they found the money to do it, when they were too poor to offer their admitted graduate students a full fellowship.

[The Humanist Hero]

I'm not just talking about players getting jobs, I'm talking about anybody from that school.

If someone came from Gonzaga to apply for a job in NYC 10 years ago, most employeers would look at Gonzaga and go, huh? Now that they are in the news all the time because of hoops, if someone applies now, suddenly when the employeer sees Gonzaga as the school they know something about it.

Sports did that. Not that school itself.
All they know about it is that they are a basketball powerhouse, if that. Just because you follow college athletics doesn't mean everyone does. Having a good athletic program does nothing to improve the job prospects for the avergae graduate nor does it add to the prestige of their degree.

[Wyclefdoug]

All they know about it is that they are a basketball powerhouse, if that. Just because you follow college athletics doesn't mean everyone does. Having a good athletic program does nothing to improve the job prospects for the avergae graduate nor does it add to the prestige of their degree.

No shit not everyone follows athletics, but A LOT of people do. That basketball team got their school a lot of name reconition based off their success. I think you can at least admit an employeer is more likely to hire a guy from a school they know as opposed to one they don't.

I'm not arguing the fact that employeers hire the best canidate, not the one who came from the school with the highest BCS rating. But sports teams do give name recognition to a school, and that is a benefit to the students.

[GozertheGozarian]

No, but if you were employeer, would you be more likely to hire someone from a school you never heard of, or one that you have heard of?
I'd hire from the school not known solely for athletics.

[Wyclefdoug]

I'd rather they spent the money on things that actually advance the educational mission of the school, such as giving scholarships to lower-income students, or paying larger stipends to graduate students. If I heard that a certain Midwestern school had decided to pay its student athletes, I would start wondering where they found the money to do it, when they were too poor to offer their admitted graduate students a full fellowship.

I think the money a team makes should go all to themself, like a business.

[Wyclefdoug]

I'd hire from the school not known solely for athletics.

That doesn't answer the question though.

Would you hire from a school you never heard of, or one you have heard of?

[The Humanist Hero]

I'd rather they spent the money on things that actually advance the educational mission of the school, such as giving scholarships to lower-income students, or paying larger stipends to graduate students. If I heard that a certain Midwestern school had decided to pay its student athletes, I would start wondering where they found the money to do it, when they were too poor to offer their admitted graduate students a full fellowship.
Thank you!!

What a novel idea. Having universities actually focus on education instead of acting as the minor leagues for the NFL and NBA.

And I speak from first hand experience. I attended grad school at the University of Southern Mississippi, a school with a second-tier, yet successful, football program. While I was there the English department was just gutted due to lack of funding. The composition and rhetoric department was abolished, scores of professors (including some very renowned names in their fields) left to schools where they were actually appreciated and paid what they were worth. Meanwhile, the school spends tons of money on the football team, upgrades the stadium, builds a dorm for the athletes, etc.

[Wyclefdoug]

Thank you!!

What a novel idea. Having universities actually focus on education instead of acting as the minor leagues for the NFL and NBA.

And I speak from first hand experience. I attended grad school at the University of Southern Mississippi, a school with a second-tier, yet successful, football program. While I was there the English department was just gutted due to lack of funding. The composition and rhetoric department was abolished, scores of professors (including some very renowned names in their fields) left to schools where they were actually appreciated and paid what they were worth. Meanwhile, the school spends tons of money on the football team, upgrades the stadium, builds a dorm for the athletes, etc.

Look, I'm not saying it's right, but college sports make money. It is a business. If they are the ones bringing the money in, they should have it spent on them.

It might not be fair, but it's life in college.

[The Humanist Hero]

Look, I'm not saying it's right, but college sports make money. It is a business. If they are the ones bringing the money in, they should have it spent on them.

It might not be fair, but it's life in college.
Well if it's not right it should be changed. And the money the teams make should be used for the good of the university. Seems to me that having a well-funded and top notch English department is much more integral to having a good university than the football team.

Not to mention that this was a state school. So the taxpayers of Mississippi, which included me for six years, were (and are) sponsoring a university that cared more about fielding a football team than teaching their students to write.

[Chiasm]

Which college athletes should be paid?

Which sports?

Both male and female?

Only Division I?

All Division I schools equally or by how good they are?

Should everyone on the same team be paid equally?



Simple fact is there are too many college athletes, too many colleges, and too many sports for pay system to work. For every athlete who will go pro in some sport there are hundreds that won't and are just in college to get an education. For every sports program that makes its school money there are ten times that which lose money.

[Wyclefdoug]

Well if it's not right it should be changed. And the money the teams make should be used for the good of the university. Seems to me that having a well-funded and top notch English department is much more integral to having a good university than the football team.

Not to mention that this was a state school. So the taxpayers of Mississippi, which included me for six years, were (and are) sponsoring a university that cared more about fielding a football team than teaching their students to write.


Well, it's never going to change. As long as the sports are bringing in the money, they'll get the preference.

[Wyclefdoug]

It's also important to remember this. In baseball, if you don't want to go to college, you can go play in the minors and get paid if you are good enough. For basketball and football, you have no other option but to go to college. The NFL makes you wait 3 years after your HS graduation and basketball just changed to 1 year mandatory college I believe. There are some kids they are taking money away from. Why is that fair?

[Wyclefdoug]

Which college athletes should be paid?

Which sports?

Both male and female?

Only Division I?

All Division I schools equally or by how good they are?

Should everyone on the same team be paid equally?



Simple fact is there are too many college athletes, too many colleges, and too many sports for pay system to work. For every athlete who will go pro in some sport there are hundreds that won't and are just in college to get an education. For every sports program that makes its school money there are ten times that which lose money.

That's where it runs into trouble. But they should be allowed to work.

I just think making a rule to pay them legally would put an end to some of these players wanting illegal payments to play for so and so team.

[spoon_jenkins]

These justifications for paying college athletes have a very "trickle down economics" feel to me. Give a large benefit that isn't connected to the mission of educationto a select group of people (who often regarding themselves as your betters), because it will indirectly benefit the mission of education. I don't think I want to be tricking into whitewashing either of those fences.

I wasn't interested in sports team performance when picking a college (even though I'm a big sports fan). I think good students and skilled professors look at the academic atmosphere. When you start to view sports success as the key to the success of your students (in the job market, etc.), I think you start a vicious cycle where you keep feeding money into that image rather than into the substance that actually produces smart, skilled students.

[clayholio]

It's also important to remember this. In baseball, if you don't want to go to college, you can go play in the minors and get paid if you are good enough. For basketball and football, you have no other option but to go to college. The NFL makes you wait 3 years after your HS graduation and basketball just changed to 1 year mandatory college I believe. There are some kids they are taking money away from. Why is that fair?
In basketball, there is a developmental league. Most players that aren't sent there by an NBA team are paid around $25,000 a year, which isn't much, but it's still getting paid for playing basketball, and it's comparable salary-wise for the low-level minor leagues in baseball. Europe is also an option for those players that don't want to go to college.

I do think that college athletes should get paid, but I also think that ALL college athletes should get paid. I don't think a stipend would be outrageous, but I would have a problem with a football player getting paid more than a women's volleyball player, for instance. The whole point of a university is to educate students, not for a few lucky athletes to get rich at the expense of it's educational programs. And a free education is a pretty significant reward beyond it's financial value.

[Wyclefdoug]

These justifications for paying college athletes have a very "trickle down economics" feel to me. Give a large benefit that isn't connected to the mission of educationto a select group of people (who often regarding themselves as your betters), because it will indirectly benefit the mission of education. I don't think I want to be tricking into whitewashing either of those fences.

I wasn't interested in sports team performance when picking a college (even though I'm a big sports fan). I think good students and skilled professors look at the academic atmosphere. When you start to view sports success as the key to the success of your students (in the job market, etc.), I think you start a vicious cycle where you keep feeding money into that image rather than into the substance that actually produces smart, skilled students.

I went to a small school for my undergrad. Robert Morris University in Pittsburgh. Some of you might have heard of it. Now, the school was good, I learned a lot. With that said, I had a lot of teachers say how glad they were we were getting all these sports added. They kept mentioning how it gives your school name recognition across the country it otherwise wouldn't have received.

Is that good? I don't know, but I think it's true.

[Wyclefdoug]

In basketball, there is a developmental league. Most players that aren't sent there by an NBA team are paid around $25,000 a year, which isn't much, but it's still getting paid for playing basketball, and it's comparable salary-wise for the low-level minor leagues in baseball. Europe is also an option for those players that don't want to go to college.

Be realistic. How many players want to go to Europe to play in, often times, terrible conditions. Also, the NCAA is widely viewed by everyone as the step in between high school and pros.

[Night]

Want money? Go pro. Institutions for Higher Education are meant for education. Millions of people have to decide between going to work or going to college, only they have to think about how they're going to pay for it. Paying athletes to play only puts another pressure against them being there to learn.

[spoon_jenkins]

Be realistic. How many players want to go to Europe to play in, often times, terrible conditions. Also, the NCAA is widely viewed by everyone as the step in between high school and pros.
I don't see why this should be the problem of the other students who would be footing the bill. If you want to make an omelette, you have to crack a few eggs. If someone wants to be a big NBA star, they may have to deal with more humble conditions working their way up. It's not the responsibility of others to prevent soon-to-be millionaires from the intense suffering of playing in Europe for a short stint.

But let me note that I'm totally against rules by the NBA and other pro leagues preventing athletes from making the jump to the pros directly from high school.

[clayholio]

Be realistic. How many players want to go to Europe to play in, often times, terrible conditions. Also, the NCAA is widely viewed by everyone as the step in between high school and pros.
European basketball does not necessarily equal terrible conditions. I'd guess that playing in Spain or Italy probably wouldn't be torturous. The NBA-affiliated developmental league just finished it's first season. Obviously, the NBA would prefer that it's players go to college, but the NBDL is a viable option for players who either can't or don't want to go through the college system. Playing in a NBA-affiliated minor league that's constantly watched by NBA scouts is a pretty realistic way to make it to the NBA.

[Wyclefdoug]

Want money? Go pro. Institutions for Higher Education are meant for education. Millions of people have to decide between going to work or going to college, only they have to think about how they're going to pay for it. Paying athletes to play only puts another pressure against them being there to learn.

It's also important to remember this. In baseball, if you don't want to go to college, you can go play in the minors and get paid if you are good enough. For basketball and football, you have no other option but to go to college. The NFL makes you wait 3 years after your HS graduation and basketball just changed to 1 year mandatory college I believe. There are some kids they are taking money away from. Why is that fair?

Sometimes you can't just go pro.

With that said, if you are Doogie Howser type smart, nobody stops you from getting through school making your money ASAP, so why should people delay athletes getting into the pros and make money doing what they do best?

Even in tennis, if you are good enough, you can play pro when you are 15. Major sports don't allow for that.

[phoenixrising]

So...what is this money for, exactly? I mean, they get their food, housing and education paid for - isn't that enough? Other students and alumni are supposed to pay for their cars, clothes and booze? I don't think so.

Some of us had to pay for our housing, food and education - and we actually had to do all of our school work too. My advice? Get a job in the off-season and work like everyone else.

[Expletive Deleted]

I'd rather they spent the money on things that actually advance the educational mission of the school, such as giving scholarships to lower-income students, or paying larger stipends to graduate students. If I heard that a certain Midwestern school had decided to pay its student athletes, I would start wondering where they found the money to do it, when they were too poor to offer their admitted graduate students a full fellowship.Exactly.

They should be spending their money on us, damn it!

[Wyclefdoug]

So...what is this money for, exactly? I mean, they get their food, housing and education paid for - isn't that enough? Other students and alumni are supposed to pay for their cars, clothes and booze? I don't think so.

Some of us had to pay for our housing, food and education - and we actually had to do all of our school work too. My advice? Get a job in the off-season and work like everyone else.

They aren't allowed to get jobs. That's part of the problem.

And yeah, you might have had to pay for your education, but you weren't doing anything for the school in order to have them pay for your education. These players offer up a lot of their time to play football, and represent the school.

Being a student, and being a student athlete aren't the same thing.

One does something for the school, and one has the school do something for them.

There's a trend I'm noticing here. A lot of people here are voting 'NO' without really having an understanding of the rules involved.

-A player can't work while under scholarship.
-Telling someone to go play in Europe isn't a viable solution. Why should an American ever have to go to another continent to get paid.
-The NFL and NBA force kids to go to college for a given amount of time, thus taking millions of dollars out of the pocket
-People sale jerseys with a given players number on it, yet the player receives no compensation for it

Why is any of that fair?

Would you have liked it if you couldn't work during college?

Would you like someone to tell you to go work in Europe for awhile?

Would you like someone forcing you to go college when otherwise you didn't need an education?

Would you like people making money off of you and you get nothing for it?

[Night]

It's also important to remember this. In baseball, if you don't want to go to college, you can go play in the minors and get paid if you are good enough. For basketball and football, you have no other option but to go to college. The NFL makes you wait 3 years after your HS graduation and basketball just changed to 1 year mandatory college I believe. There are some kids they are taking money away from. Why is that fair?

Sometimes you can't just go pro.

With that said, if you are Doogie Howser type smart, nobody stops you from getting through school making your money ASAP, so why should people delay athletes getting into the pros and make money doing what they do best?

Even in tennis, if you are good enough, you can play pro when you are 15. Major sports don't allow for that.
And the job I have now required a college degree to get in..... So I couldn't "go pro" out of HS and get the job I wanted either. What you point out is between the player and the NFL and not the colleges.

[Wyclefdoug]

And the job I have now required a college degree to get in..... So I couldn't "go pro" out of HS and get the job I wanted either. What you point out is between the player and the NFL and not the colleges.

Which is why I say, if you are going to force someone to go to school, and lose money, that's not fair.

They aren't allowed to get jobs. That's part of the problem.

And yeah, you might have had to pay for your education, but you weren't doing anything for the school in order to have them pay for your education. These players offer up a lot of their time to play football, and represent the school.

Being a student, and being a student athlete aren't the same thing.

One does something for the school, and one has the school do something for them.

There's a trend I'm noticing here. A lot of people here are voting 'NO' without really having an understanding of the rules involved.

-A player can't work while under scholarship.
-Telling someone to go play in Europe isn't a viable solution. Why should an American ever have to go to another continent to get paid.
-The NFL and NBA force kids to go to college for a given amount of time, thus taking millions of dollars out of the pocket
-People sale jerseys with a given players number on it, yet the player receives no compensation for it

Why is any of that fair?

Would you have liked it if you couldn't work during college?

Would you like someone to tell you to go work in Europe for awhile?

Would you like someone forcing you to go college when otherwise you didn't need an education?

Would you like people making money off of you and you get nothing for it?

[phoenixrising]

They aren't allowed to get jobs. That's part of the problem.

Is that at all schools? I was friends with the basketball team at my D1 university and they were able to have part-time jobs and internships in the summers. Usually they got hooked up with these by alums - or they worked for the university in some other fashion.

And yeah, you might have had to pay for your education, but you weren't doing anything for the school in order to have them pay for your education. These players offer up a lot of their time to play football, and represent the school.

Really? I was a grad assistant, a teacher's assistant and I worked at the student newspaper - and I worked hard. I didn't get paid beyond scholarships and room/board agreements. How's that different?


-People sale jerseys with a given players number on it, yet the player receives no compensation for it

Of course not, they don't own their name, their position or their team - the university does. That's just silly.

Would you have liked it if you couldn't work during college?
I would have loved it if I didn't have to and I couldnt have just worke don my schoolwork. But I had to have four jobs to pay my tuition and room/board.

Would you like someone forcing you to go college when otherwise you didn't need an education?

You assume all college athletes aspire only to be pros. And you assume education is worthless for a pro athlete. Both are false.

Would you like people making money off of you and you get nothing for it?

An education is hardly nothing.

[Wyclefdoug]

Is that at all schools? I was friends with the basketball team at my D1 university and they were able to have part-time jobs and internships in the summers. Usually they got hooked up with these by alums - or they worked for the university in some other fashion.

I don't know the rule verbatim, and I'm only repeating what I've heard on TV, but as far as I know, if you have a full scholarship you can't work.

Really? I was a grad assistant, a teacher's assistant and I worked at the student newspaper - and I worked hard. I didn't get paid beyond scholarships and room/board agreements. How's that different?

How many hours per week did you put into your grad assitantship? 10-20. Athletes put in way beyond that.

Of course not, they don't own their name, their position or their team - the university does. That's just silly.

You being sarcastic? How does the school own the players name? All the school has to do is put the star's number on a jersey and it will sale because people know who wears that number. Hence, they make money off that players likeness, and that's not right.

You assume all college athletes aspire only to be pros. And you assume education is worthless for a pro athlete. Both are false.

No I don't. If you read the original post, I say that from top to bottom, most of them probably don't need money. But at the biggest of schools, where the most money is coming in, I think some compensation is neccesary to keep players like Reggie Bush from taking money from agents and what not.

An education is hardly nothing.

Compared to a multi million dollar contract, hell yeah. I'll take all that money over my degree any day of the week.

[phoenixrising]

This entire disagreement seems based on athlete worship - something I don't tend to practice. I don't find them to be any more special than any other student. I don't see why they should be treated any better.

[spoon_jenkins]

I would have loved it if I didn't have to and I couldnt have just worke don my schoolwork. But I had to have four jobs to pay my tuition and room/board.
Better than that. You could even have specially-selected, university-paid tutors to help you with you schoolwork as well.

And some of them will even do your schoolwork for you, but let's keep that part on the down-low.

[Wyclefdoug]

Well, college sports are a business, and just like in any business, the more you do for your business, the better you get paid.

You as a regular student, besided checking papers for a teacher, most times aren't doing anything to benefit the school.

These players are bringing in millions of dollars in some cases.

[Sir Tim Drake]

I think the money a team makes should go all to themself, like a business.

Then why should the team even be associated with the university? If Example University's exampleball team spent all its money on itself, and didn't help to fund the university's academic mission, then it would have nothing to do with the primary purpose for which EU exists. There would be nothing to justify its use of the university's name or its occupation of university property.

Also, it costs EU money to give scholarships to athletes, since they could have admitted tuition-paying students instead. So under the model you propose, it would actually cost the university money to run an exampleball team, and that team would be giving nothing back to the university.

[kmeyers]

They are paid, and paid well. It's called a free education.

They can't have jobs? They have a job. The sport they have a scholarship for is their job. Some are better at their job than others, but that's the agreement they made. I know plenty of people that had to work hard at a job to pay for their college degree.

If a college athlete brings millions to a university and should be payed more for it...go pro if you're that good.

It would be the same for a guy working a job and got a better offer from somewhere else.

[Lord Ichabod]

wow, I'm late so I'll be short. no they shouldn't. but they should be allowed to work. that is all.

[Wyclefdoug]

I don't know, I guess they shouldn't get all the money. I think what I was trying to say was that the player the bring in, some of that should go into paying the players additional money for their efforts. Not all of it.

The main reason I'm for players getting money beyond the scholarship is to aid in the prevention of players accepting money and other things from agents and what not. Maybe if they had a little more money they'd be more likely to turn down other things being offered to them.

I also don't like the idea of forcing kids to go to college for a few years before they can go pro. If you don't need education to play, why force them to go at all if they are good enough? Your forcing them to risk their future and millions of dollars.

A football player can't go to the NFL until 3 years after gradutation of HS. If they are good enough before that, they should be allowed.

That'd be like us average joe's waiting 3 years to work after we get our BS degree. It doesn't make sense if you've already got the skills.

[Dreadstar]

I wouldn't mind them raisning the stipend they already get, it's pretty puny. I mean, when I went, I could always (and often did) get a job on the side to get pizza and date money. You gotta take into acount that they don't really have much time to take a job on the side.

But I'm not for a *salary*. Not that kind of pay. No. Double the stipend, no big deal.

Other than that, even a cheap college's education is worth at least $50,000, with room and board. And I bet I'm underestimating that. That's pretty damn good pay right there.

[Sir Tim Drake]

It's also important to remember this. In baseball, if you don't want to go to college, you can go play in the minors and get paid if you are good enough. For basketball and football, you have no other option but to go to college. The NFL makes you wait 3 years after your HS graduation and basketball just changed to 1 year mandatory college I believe. There are some kids they are taking money away from. Why is that fair?

You've said this at least three times now. I think you might well be right about this, but even if this argument is correct, it still doesn't outweigh the other reasons why student athletes shouldn't be paid.

Also, what's so bad about one year of mandatory college? NBA and NFL athletes still make more money than anyone really needs, and during that one year or three years when they can't make an NBA or NFL salary, they get a free college education and free room and board. That sounds like a nice deal to me.

Universities have limited financial resources. They should be giving money to people who actually need that money to attend the university, rather than people who are already getting a free ride. In other words, perhaps student athletes are being financially exploited in certain ways, but they're much better off than people who can't afford to go to college at all.

[Lord Ichabod]

college athletes get loads of free stuff. free stuff less fortunate kidscould totally use.

[Wyclefdoug]

You've said this at least three times now. I think you might well be right about this, but even if this argument is correct, it still doesn't outweigh the other reasons why student athletes shouldn't be paid.

Also, what's so bad about one year of mandatory college? NBA and NFL athletes still make more money than anyone really needs, and during that one year or three years when they can't make an NBA or NFL salary, they get a free college education and free room and board. That sounds like a nice deal to me.

Universities have limited financial resources. They should be giving money to people who actually need that money to attend the university, rather than people who are already getting a free ride. In other words, perhaps student athletes are being financially exploited in certain ways, but they're much better off than people who can't afford to go to college at all.

Well, I like the rule as a fan of the NBA. It gives the players one more year to learn the fundamentals. But that 1 year can change everything. If you get hurt, boom, you aren't getting drafted and you lose out on some serious money.

Education for free is awesome. But you tell me, 3 years and 15 million or free room and board for a year while you can potentially ruin your career.

[kmeyers]

Education for free is awesome. But you tell me, 3 years and 15 million or free room and board for a year while you can potentially ruin your career.
and how many athletes does that apply to? 1%, 2% maybe?

edit: and they can still be injured as a pro, potentially ending their career as well.

[literally exaggerated]

It would completely, utterly and almost instantly ruin college sports. I do think the NCAA exploits them to an extent, but I'm not sure there's any way around it without destroying the sport.

[Wyclefdoug]

For the most part the scholarship is enough. I understand that, but in some instances I think their needs to be a change if you don't want to see kids taking illegal money.

[Wyclefdoug]

and how many athletes does that apply to? 1%, 2% maybe?

edit: and they can still be injured as a pro, potentially ending their career as well.

but in the nba, you get a guarented contract, and in the nfl your signing bonus is all yours. you'd still get that money even if you got hurt in the pros

i don't know how may it applies too. but i'm looking for a way to keep kids from taking illegal money. i think giving them a little more could potentially help. maybe not.

[Wyclefdoug]

It would completely, utterly and almost instantly ruin college sports. I do think the NCAA exploits them to an extent, but I'm not sure there's any way around it without destroying the sport.

I'm not disagreeing, but why do you think it would ruin college sports? I'm not talking about giving them like 50,000 a year to play. I'm talking like another 5 or 10 g's a year for living expenses. I'd say that's about the same amount most kids make a year doing part time jobs,and being they can't work them, that'd be a good way to even things out if you don't want to let them work.

[kmeyers]

For the most part the scholarship is enough. I understand that, but in some instances I think their needs to be a change if you don't want to see kids taking illegal money.
why?

That's like saying, compensation for being a good athlete is enough, but if you take illegal steroids to be the best, you'll get paid more. Even though it's illegal, it's ok, because you justify it to yourself...and we all saw how that went with Madonna.

And how fair is that, to the walk on athlete, who is busting his ass in practice, not taking steroids, paying for his education. Because He/she just loves the sport that much...and then, having to compete with Captain Cheating Steroid who has a free ride, and lots of help outside of practice.

[Valmore]

Athletes shouldn't be paid, no. However, some restrictions need to be resolved, because it just gets too stupid. It's to the point where athletes can't get a part-time job, and get investigated if they borrow bus fare from a coach to go home for a weekend. There's no real reason to not let student athletes work down at the student union or in the cafeteria or as school groundskeepers for some pocket money.

[kmeyers]

but in the nba, you get a guarented contract, and in the nfl your signing bonus is all yours. you'd still get that money even if you got hurt in the pros

i don't know how may it applies too. but i'm looking for a way to keep kids from taking illegal money. i think giving them a little more could potentially help. maybe not.
emphasis on potentially no\
great athletes do what they do.

great people do what they do not.

[Cei-U!]

I think the NFL, NBA, etc, should establish a farm club system like MLB and stop the pretense altogether. College teams should be made up of students already in attendance and recruiting on the basis of athletic prowess should be banned. At least half of the jocks I met in college wouldn't have been there if academic performance had been the criterion for admission (it was amazing some of them ever got past kindergarten) and didn't appreciate or care about the educational opportunities they'd been given. I say let them go play their games for money and give their scholarships to good but financially challenged students.

Cei-U!
I summon the elitist POV!

[Valmore]

I think the NFL, NBA, etc, should establish a farm club system like MLB and stop the pretense altogether. College teams should be made up of students already in attendance and recruiting on the basis of athletic prowess should be banned. At least half of the jocks I met in college wouldn't have been there if academic performance had been the criterion for admission (it was amazing some of them ever got past kindergarten) and didn't appreciate or care about the educational opportunities they'd been given. I say let them go play their games for money and give their scholarships to good but financially challenged students.

The NFL has NFL Europe.

The NBA has a Developmental League.

And there's a good farm system in place for hockey teams.

And the farm system doesn't stop college baseball teams from recruiting players from high school.

[PunkMC]

I also don't like the idea of forcing kids to go to college for a few years before they can go pro. If you don't need education to play, why force them to go at all if they are good enough? Your forcing them to risk their future and millions of dollars.

A football player can't go to the NFL until 3 years after gradutation of HS. If they are good enough before that, they should be allowed.

That'd be like us average joe's waiting 3 years to work after we get our BS degree. It doesn't make sense if you've already got the skills.

No one is forcing anyone into anything. Every employer has the right to hire who they want. If you dont want to go to college then don't. You will still be eligiable in the 3 years. The reason most go to college is keep in shape and work on their fundamentals. Your choice not the the employers. Maybe, just maybe they NFL, NBA, and MLB want these kids to have something to fall back on when their career sputters out. What if they are touted as the next big thing and then the sputter out? " Why yes Mr. Leaf I would like fries with that."

Also the fact that you said an employer is more likely to hire a applicant from a school with a good sports team over someone that went to a non sports school is ridiculous. If that were true no one from MIT or most of the Ivy league schools would ever have been hired. Employers don't look at that. The employer is looking for the best candidate for the job. Why would someone hire an Accountant from Gonzoga just because their basketball team made a name for themselves this year, especially if they know that the Gonzoga Accounting Deptment sucks. See where I'm heading with this? Employers know what schools are good for what vocations. How many Heismans the school produced won't ever be a factor.

And yes I sorta agree with you. I think they should be paid. That way they don't waste time in class to get their education. That way when they break their bones we the "average joe's" can charge them more to mend them.

And we the "average joe's" can become their lawyers to make more money when they get into trouble for doing all their drinking / drugs. (Lawerance Phillps anyone??)

And we the "average joe's" can become their accountants and swindle their money right out from their noses, because they are to stupid to see it happen.

The very thought of paying these kids is sickening. They have it on easy street from day one at the university. Oh no they can't work, they have to practice. Big whoop. I would have loved to not have had to work while in school. And they get extensions on test and homework and projects. Not once could I tell my teacher that I couldn't take a test, because I had to work at my job.

[Sir Tim Drake]

Not once could I tell my teacher that I couldn't take a test, because I had to work at my job.

This is not really relevant, but I actually did that once, and the professor was fine with it.

[Wyclefdoug]

The NFL has NFL Europe.

The NBA has a Developmental League.

And there's a good farm system in place for hockey teams.

And the farm system doesn't stop college baseball teams from recruiting players from high school.


NFL Europe you can throw out, because you still have to wait 3 years after your HS graduation to be eligible. It's the same rules that go with the NFL.

NBDL is weak. Anybody would rather play in the NCAA Tourney compared to the NBDL Championship. You have to be realistic. Nobody wants to play in the NBDL.

Hockey it doesn't matter, if you are good enough you go to the Pro's. You don't have to wait around a given amount of time to get paid.

My problem is simple. You have athletes getting illegal money.They might not get caught all the time, but I'm sure it happens quite often. What can you do to stop them? I think if you offered 5-10 G's a year extra for these kids to have to do whatever they wanted with, that it would slow down all this extracurricular money exchange.

They can't work a job to get that money, and otherwise, they don't have any money to do anything at all. Most of the kids come from poor familes so it's not like their family can give them money to go out on the weekends.

And really, I can't understand why you guys are saying go to Europe if you don't want to go to college and want paid. How would you like it if someone told you, you have to go to Europe for 2 or 3 years before you can work in the states.

Another thing that was said is that they are looking out for these players and want to give them something to fall back on if their career doens't work out. That's all well and good, but you know as well as I do, A LOT of those kids who go to school don't want to be there, and the only reason they are there is to play sports. College isn't for everyone. Not every athlete should have to go if they don't want to, just like ever joe regular shouldn't have to go if they don't want too.

By forcing them to go to college for however many years, you are forcing them into a decision they might not otherwise want to make, just so they can get to the point they could have been at a few years earlier.

[PunkMC]

Another thing that was said is that they are looking out for these players and want to give them something to fall back on if their career doens't work out. That's all well and good, but you know as well as I do, A LOT of those kids who go to school don't want to be there, and the only reason they are there is to play sports. College isn't for everyone. Not every athlete should have to go if they don't want to, just like ever joe regular shouldn't have to go if they don't want too.

By forcing them to go to college for however many years, you are forcing them into a decision they might not otherwise want to make, just so they can get to the point they could have been at a few years earlier.

Again no is forcing them to do anything. If they don't want to go to college, they don't have to. They can wait their 3 years and still be eligible with out having to go to college. IT'S THEIR CHOICE. It might not be a choice they like, but it's still a choice.

[Wyclefdoug]

Again no is forcing them to do anything. If they don't want to go to college, they don't have to. They can wait their 3 years and still be eligible with out having to go to college. IT'S THEIR CHOICE. It might not be a choice they like, but it's still a choice.

That's not a choice, that's an ultimatum. You don't get better playing football on the street or practicing with a trainer. You get better playing. That's also where you prove yourself. You can't just say either play in college or don't play at all and expect them to get drafted. If they want to play in the NFL, they HAVE to play in the NCAA first.

[macul]

Athletes shouldn't be paid, no. However, some restrictions need to be resolved, because it just gets too stupid. It's to the point where athletes can't get a part-time job, and get investigated if they borrow bus fare from a coach to go home for a weekend. There's no real reason to not let student athletes work down at the student union or in the cafeteria or as school groundskeepers for some pocket money.

Yeah. That's why I think something should be given to them. I'm not talking about paying them 40k/year or the such, but some spending money isn't out of the question or allow them to work. Course working could raise other issues, such as an athlete receiving a check, but never showing up for work. It could basically serve as cover for some booster giving money to an athlete. Anyway, the current system is really screwy. As valmore stated, these kids can get in trouble for the most minor of "infractions."

[Wyclefdoug]

Yeah. That's why I think something should be given to them. I'm not talking about paying them 40k/year or the such, but some spending money isn't out of the question or allow them to work. Course working could raise other issues, such as an athlete receiving a check, but never showing up for work. It could basically serve as cover for some booster giving money to an athlete. Anyway, the current system is really screwy. As valmore stated, these kids can get in trouble for the most minor of "infractions."


That's what I've been trying to say myself.

[Michael P]

For the most part the scholarship is enough. I understand that, but in some instances I think their needs to be a change if you don't want to see kids taking illegal money.
Ah. So, instead of teaching them about things like morals and professional ethics, we should bribe them.

[macul]

That's what I've been trying to say myself.

It's a complicated situation. On one hand these athletes are receiving a very valuable education. Course that opportunity is only as good as they make it. We've had players come through UGA who graduated with 4.0 GPAs in microbiology or the such. You'd like for that education to be enough.

On the other hand, some of these universities are making a helluva lot of money. The UGA athletic department made revenue in the millions (I forget the exact number, but it was double digits) last year. I can't help but think that the players should get a little of that. Not much. Heck, just enough to take their gf's out on a date or something. The other side of this coin is that most athletic programs don't make money, so maybe you'd have to institute some sort of sharing, such as the NFL uses. I dunno. It's a tough situation.

[Dreadstar]

Just give them a bit more "laundry money."

It'd be nice to take a girl out for some pizza and beer on ocassion.

[Wyclefdoug]

Ah. So, instead of teaching them about things like morals and professional ethics, we should bribe them.

No. As it stands now, players get bribed. See Reggis Bush in the news right now. Whether it be the school, or the agents, they use the current system to their advantage, and the players RIGHT NOW recieve bribes. I'm asking for a solution to this, or at least a deterrent.

It's a complicated situation. On one hand these athletes are receiving a very valuable education. Course that opportunity is only as good as they make it. We've had players come through UGA who graduated with 4.0 GPAs in microbiology or the such. You'd like for that education to be enough.

I agree with everything you are saying, and I too wish education was enough. But everyone knows that college sports is a business now. It's not the same as it was 40 and 50 years ago.

Just give them a bit more "laundry money."

It'd be nice to take a girl out for some pizza and beer on ocassion.

That's what I'm saying. The majority of these kids come from poor familys who can't give them spending money. Where are they supposed to get it if they can't have a job? I don't think giving them 5-10 G's a year for spending money is all that out of order. Especially if it can deter some of the kids from taking money illegally to play elsewhere.

Also, by looking up at the poll, I see it's quite lopsided, but most people are saying NO without really knowing the rules before hand. I think if you look at the whole picture, you'll see that it's a screwed up system and something needs to be done to fix it.

- You can't get a job
- You can't go straight to the NFL or NBA
- Forcing someone to go to Europe to work isn't right
- Schools are making millions of dollars off of these players

I think most people agree that college athletics are in some turmoil. If giving them some spending money doesn't work for you, then what does?

[Michael P]

Just give them a bit more "laundry money."

It'd be nice to take a girl out for some pizza and beer on ocassion.Yes, because college athletes have so much trouble getting laid.

For that matter, didn't the Duke lacrosse team have enough money between them to hire a stripper?

[Wyclefdoug]

Yes, because college athletes have so much trouble getting laid.

For that matter, didn't the Duke lacrosse team have enough money between them to hire a stripper?


What kind of people play lacrosse? Rich white kids.

What kind of kids played lacrosse at Duke? Rich white kids.

Of course they had enough money to hire a stripper. Their parents probably give them all the money they need to have a life. 80% probably have cars their parents bought for them.

Most of the kids who play football and basketball don't come from that type of situation. They need the money to do extracurriculars.

[macul]

Also, by looking up at the poll, I see it's quite lopsided, but most people are saying NO without really knowing the rules before hand. I think if you look at the whole picture, you'll see that it's a screwed up system and something needs to be done to fix it.

That might be due to the wording. Instead of pay it should be thought of as a stipend or an allowance. The ones we're talking about (those on full scholarship and prohibited from working) already receive a play to live, food, and some other convenience, so they shouldn't receive much.

[Dreadstar]

Yes, because college athletes have so much trouble getting laid.

HAH! But so not the point

For that matter, didn't the Duke lacrosse team have enough money between them to hire a stripper?
It's possible that the Duke boys were there on scholarship and were from poor families. I'm skeptical that it's the case that they were poor, however. I mean, if it'd been NCState or OSU, you'd have a much better case (even in jest). But we're talking about Duke, which is rich kid central in the Atlantic Coast Conference.

[Loren]

I think the NFL, NBA, etc, should establish a farm club system like MLB and stop the pretense altogether. College teams should be made up of students already in attendance and recruiting on the basis of athletic prowess should be banned. At least half of the jocks I met in college wouldn't have been there if academic performance had been the criterion for admission (it was amazing some of them ever got past kindergarten) and didn't appreciate or care about the educational opportunities they'd been given. I say let them go play their games for money and give their scholarships to good but financially challenged students.

I have similar sentiments, but a different solution. Colleges and universities benefit too much from their athletic programs to scale them back to glorified intermural teams. The sports can bring national attention to a college, they are a favorite pastime of alumni, and they bring in a ton of money.

I agree with an old professor of mine from UGA who said we shouldn't require student athletes to be students at all. Just make the NCAA football and basketball programs semi-pro, and let the schools flat-out hire full-time players. That way, the program remains, and the school can stop granting academic favors to athletes as a means of keeping up the pretext that they're good students. (I only had one memorable run-in with a student athlete. He was a football player in my speech class, and he just flat-out didn't show up for his final, 30%-of-his-total-grade speech, which I was supposed to review.) No more lessened admittance standards for somebody who's good at throwing a ball.

At the same time, any legitimately-admitted students who want to try out for the team could do so, and could be eligible for athletic scholarships. But they'd have to balance the team with their classload. They would be the real student athletes.

[Grazzt]

(I only had one memorable run-in with a student athlete. He was a football player in my speech class, and he just flat-out didn't show up for his final, 30%-of-his-total-grade speech, which I was supposed to review.)

Kind of off-topic, but did anyone pressure you to give him a good mark anyway, or do you think they just threw out whatever review you wrote?

[macul]

(I only had one memorable run-in with a student athlete. He was a football player in my speech class, and he just flat-out didn't show up for his final, 30%-of-his-total-grade speech, which I was supposed to review.)

Quincy?! Not sure if you were at UGA when he was around or not, but he really got away with a lot.

[Wyclefdoug]

That might be due to the wording. Instead of pay it should be thought of as a stipend or an allowance. The ones we're talking about (those on full scholarship and prohibited from working) already receive a play to live, food, and some other convenience, so they shouldn't receive much.

That's what I was thinking. I don't believe they should be paid I guess, but something should be given to them, spending money wise.

[Loren]

Alas, it wasn't Quincy. The guy's name was Michael something. Davis or Thomas or something, I can't recall. This was back around 1999, and he wasn't a player of note.

The TA who taught the class was a real upstanding person, so I hope that she didn't cave. Given the amount that that final speech counted, he shouldn't have passed without doing it. And his other speeches weren't exactly grade-A material (I seem to recall he did one speech on socks).

I was very strongly tempted to ask the TA about how she handled his grade, but it felt out-of-line to be inquiring about another student's grade. I did, however, give her back my blank review form on the last day of class, after I'd confirmed with her that I wasn't going to hear a speech from him.

When the school website posted aggregate class grades the next semester, I checked for that class, and IIRC, *somebody* failed it. I vaguely recall there being 1 F and 1 D. So I've had faith these years that this isn't a story about an athlete getting away with lousy academics. However, I think it stands as a great example of an athlete who definitely believed he could get away with performing poorly in the classroom.

My brother and some friends had their own classroom encounters with student athletes. I seem to recall my brother hearing somebody talk in class about cheating. And there was apparently a coaching or 'Basics of Football' class where there was only one grade, a multiple-choice final exam, where the teacher pretty much handed out the correct answers to 80% of the questions in the class before the final.

[Loren]

And on a non-academic level, student athletes at UGA used to regularly get away with parking illegally, in handicapped spots and the like. There was a handicapped spot in front of one particular dining hall that often had a fancy looking, non-handicapped car sitting in it. If a normal student did it, he'd get ticketed or towed; but campus turned a blind eye to the athletes' cars.

[Wyclefdoug]

Alas, it wasn't Quincy. The guy's name was Michael something. Davis or Thomas or something, I can't recall. This was back around 1999, and he wasn't a player of note.

The TA who taught the class was a real upstanding person, so I hope that she didn't cave. Given the amount that that final speech counted, he shouldn't have passed without doing it. And his other speeches weren't exactly grade-A material (I seem to recall he did one speech on socks).

I was very strongly tempted to ask the TA about how she handled his grade, but it felt out-of-line to be inquiring about another student's grade. I did, however, give her back my blank review form on the last day of class, after I'd confirmed with her that I wasn't going to hear a speech from him.

When the school website posted aggregate class grades the next semester, I checked for that class, and IIRC, *somebody* failed it. I vaguely recall there being 1 F and 1 D. So I've had faith these years that this isn't a story about an athlete getting away with lousy academics. However, I think it stands as a great example of an athlete who definitely believed he could get away with performing poorly in the classroom.

My brother and some friends had their own classroom encounters with student athletes. I seem to recall my brother hearing somebody talk in class about cheating. And there was apparently a coaching or 'Basics of Football' class where there was only one grade, a multiple-choice final exam, where the teacher pretty much handed out the correct answers to 80% of the questions in the class before the final.


That's part of the problem though. They can't really do anything in between the NFL and HS but go to college,and if you don't want too, it's damn hard to do well, or even try.

Trust me, I've been there. Before I knew what I wanted to do, I'd skip classes weeks at a time.

[Cephus]

You also probably weren't responsible for bringing in millions of dollars every time your team was in a bowl game. I think that's the point people miss. Yeah they get a $80,000 degree, but they bought that school a 8 million dollar so and so building.

So what? Sports is an EXTRACURRICULAR activity. The reason anyone should be in school is to get an education. If they want to throw a ball at each other, they should do it on their own time. I don't think they should even give scholarships for things like that. If the school is going to make a ton of money off of it, they should just hire atheletes to play in their stadiums. Stop pretending that football or basketball is a college course, it isn't.

[Cei-U!]

And on a non-academic level, student athletes at UGA used to regularly get away with parking illegally, in handicapped spots and the like. There was a handicapped spot in front of one particular dining hall that often had a fancy looking, non-handicapped car sitting in it. If a normal student did it, he'd get ticketed or towed; but campus turned a blind eye to the athletes' cars.

There was a jock on campus who used to park his Corvette *on* the access ramp I needed to use to get to my classes. When it was blocked, I had to drive my chair five extra blocks to get there. The campus cops wouldn't do anything about it and neither nice or nasty notes left on his windshield made any difference. Finally, I used a protruding part of my chair to leave a deep gouge in his paint job the full length of the car (on both sides). End of problem. Never saw the car again.

The sense of entitlement some athletes have is revolting.

Cei-U!
I summon the sweet revenge!

[Grazzt]

There was a jock on campus who used to park his Corvette *on* the access ramp I needed to use to get to my classes. When it was blocked, I had to drive my chair five extra blocks to get there. The campus cops wouldn't do anything about it and neither nice or nasty notes left on his windshield made any difference. Finally, I used a protruding part of my chair to leave a deep gouge in his paint job the full length of the car (on both sides). End of problem. Never saw the car again.

The sense of entitlement some athletes have is revolting.

Cei-U!
I summon the sweet revenge!

May I cross-post this to the "Scenes that Defined PWNED!!!" thread on Rumbles? That is just far too awesome not to share. :D

[Loren]

There was a jock on campus who used to park his Corvette *on* the access ramp I needed to use to get to my classes. When it was blocked, I had to drive my chair five extra blocks to get there. The campus cops wouldn't do anything about it and neither nice or nasty notes left on his windshield made any difference. Finally, I used a protruding part of my chair to leave a deep gouge in his paint job the full length of the car (on both sides). End of problem. Never saw the car again.

The sense of entitlement some athletes have is revolting.

I hesitate to endorse vandalism, but darnit if that doesn't sound satisfying. And deserved.

[Wyclefdoug]

So what? Sports is an EXTRACURRICULAR activity. The reason anyone should be in school is to get an education. If they want to throw a ball at each other, they should do it on their own time. I don't think they should even give scholarships for things like that. If the school is going to make a ton of money off of it, they should just hire atheletes to play in their stadiums. Stop pretending that football or basketball is a college course, it isn't.


They do throw a ball at each other on their own time. Playing football in college is like having a full time job. Don't confuse what you want sports to be with what it actually is. It's a business,and it is what it is. Complaing about the kids getting money for throwing a ball at each other isn't going to fix the problem.

[kmeyers]

So what? Sports is an EXTRACURRICULAR activity. The reason anyone should be in school is to get an education. If they want to throw a ball at each other, they should do it on their own time. I don't think they should even give scholarships for things like that. If the school is going to make a ton of money off of it, they should just hire atheletes to play in their stadiums. Stop pretending that football or basketball is a college course, it isn't.
you're joking, right?

They get paid for this..."extracurricular activity." it's not a college course, but it's the way these athletes pay for their college courses...much like other people, who have to work at those things called jobs, to pay for their classes.

[Wyclefdoug]

you're joking, right?

They get paid for this..."extracurricular activity." it's not a college course, but it's the way these athletes pay for their college courses...much like other people, who have to work at those things called jobs, to pay for their classes.


Most of those people who work at those things called jobs don't do anything for school other then go to class. The players benefit the school in the millions of dollars if it's a big time school.

[Cei-U!]

May I cross-post this to the "Scenes that Defined PWNED!!!" thread on Rumbles? That is just far too awesome not to share. :D

Go for it.

Cei-U!
I summon the blessing!

[Valmore]

And on a non-academic level, student athletes at UGA used to regularly get away with parking illegally, in handicapped spots and the like. There was a handicapped spot in front of one particular dining hall that often had a fancy looking, non-handicapped car sitting in it. If a normal student did it, he'd get ticketed or towed; but campus turned a blind eye to the athletes' cars.

Must have been a "good" player. Because a couple years ago, Chris Rix here at Florida State got ticketed not once, but twice, for parking in a handicapped spot on campus. The joke was, "Don't they watch him play QB? Isn't it obvious he's mentally handicapped with the decisions he makes in the pocket?"

[Wyclefdoug]

I don't think it's fair they get special treatment, but if people are going to treat them like their shit don't stink, can you blame them for taking advantage of it?

[Fenris]

I have similar sentiments, but a different solution. Colleges and universities benefit too much from their athletic programs to scale them back to glorified intermural teams. The sports can bring national attention to a college, they are a favorite pastime of alumni, and they bring in a ton of money.

I agree with an old professor of mine from UGA who said we shouldn't require student athletes to be students at all. Just make the NCAA football and basketball programs semi-pro, and let the schools flat-out hire full-time players. That way, the program remains, and the school can stop granting academic favors to athletes as a means of keeping up the pretext that they're good students.

I agree.

There is no real connection between academics and athletics; an athletic scholarship makes absolutely no sense in terms of a university's stated ideals.

But as you say, there's also no real chance that colleges will abolish their teams. They make too much money, and too many people's emotions are invested in them.

Making the team into a separate, non-student-based concern will at least make the entire situation more honest. If the athletes really want to go to college for an education, they can certainly go; they'll just pay for it with their own money, earned from their job, like anyone else.


õ
At least, in theory!

[Wyclefdoug]

I agree.

There is no real connection between academics and athletics; an athletic scholarship makes absolutely no sense in terms of a university's stated ideals.

But as you say, there's also no real chance that colleges will abolish their teams. They make too much money, and too many people's emotions are invested in them.

Making the team into a separate, non-student-based concern will at least make the entire situation more honest. If the athletes really want to go to college for an education, they can certainly go; they'll just pay for it with their own money, earned from their job, like anyone else.


õ
At least, in theory!


Is there a different connection between academics and athletics in high school that isn't there in college?

It's the same thing to me. You go to a school, you play for school.

[Fenris]

Is there a different connection between academics and athletics in high school that isn't there in college?

It's the same thing to me. You go to a school, you play for school.

That is an excellent point. Let's see.

In the first place, high school football draws a lot less money than college football. And this matters: high-school football corruption involves fake grades. College football corruption involves Lexuses.

Secondly: high school players are (mostly) minors who are required to attend school. They have to be there; it makes less sense to postulate a separate sports program.

College players are adults who are free to go somewhere else. In many cases, they would, if not for the historical accident of sports programs being linked to universities.

I agree that it's kind of inconsistent. But I would rather partially-improve the situation for colleges, than not improve it for anyone, in the name of consistency.


õ
Most of my improvements are sloppy!

[Wyclefdoug]

That is an excellent point. Let's see.

In the first place, high school football draws a lot less money than college football. And this matters: high-school football corruption involves fake grades. College football corruption involves Lexuses.

Secondly: high school players are (mostly) minors who are required to attend school. They have to be there; it makes less sense to postulate a separate sports program.

College players are adults who are free to go somewhere else. In many cases, they would, if not for the historical accident of sports programs being linked to universities.

I agree that it's kind of inconsistent. But I would rather partially-improve the situation for colleges, than not improve it for anyone, in the name of consistency.


õ
Most of my improvements are sloppy!


With all that said, I like the way the academic/athlete thing plays out now. I wouldn't change that for anything. I don't really like the idea of having people play under a college, yet don't go to school there.

I just wish there was a way to keep the illegal money out of the picture. That's why I recommend the extra money(5-10 G's per year) for spending money. I think this would take the temptation down for many kids.