If John Byrne was to the return to the X-Franchise

[Mister Mets]

John Byrne was asked at his message board about rumors that Marvel wanted him on an X-book, and he said he can't comment on it.
http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11711&PN=1&totPosts=60

Since he's currently a freelance artist (which explains his many recent commissions) there's nothing to prevent him from returning to the books.

My question to you guys.
If he's coming back (and it's still a big "if') what book would you want to see him on?

My top picks......
Astonishing X-Men) with writer Mark Millar. I believe the artist/ co-plotter of the Dark Phoenix Saga/ Days of Future Past/ Hunt for Mutant X qualifies. Millar has recently expressed an interest with working for him, and I'm convinved he could do an excellent 12 issue stint, and give Byrne some really cool things to draw.
Wolverine) with writer Mark Guggenheim (who often posts on the John Byrne messaga board.) It would be great to see Byrne return to the character he made famous, and justify the solo title's existence (as if Millar/ Romita Jr hadn't done so already.) This would also give Byrne job security on a title, something he hasn't had in a long time.

[Brian M.]

Millar/Byrne would be awesome. Flat out awesome on Astonishing.

[Harlock]

If he's coming back (and it's still a big "if') what book would you want to see him on?
The end of a short rope; toes dangling off the floor?

Nagh, despite all the internet stuff I read about Byrne I don't know how much to believe and how much is overblown fanboy's feeling slighted for some imagined jabs. If I had to pick one book, I'd pick FF.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I really don't know. His Doom Patrol to me was WEAK and his other stuff seems made for another era. I just don't feel the same about him as I did after 1999 . Its like he changed... :(

[Badger Boy]

His art style has gone way down hill since the 80's. I think he draws much faster than he used to, and the quality of his art suffers because of this.

[tricksterpup]

I would love to see him return to original X-men stories set in the past.

[Mister Mets]

His art style has gone way down hill since the 80's. I think he draws much faster than he used to, and the quality of his art suffers because of this.

While Byrne is a fast artist (3 books a month) I don't think his art suffers for it.
Pencil scans of much of his recent work are available at
http://www.artofjohnbyrne.com/pencilscans.html

I think Byrne's writing has suffered, which is why I wouldn't want him to be the writer on any of the books.

[comicartfan]

If he was pencilling an X-Book, or Any Marvel book for that matter, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. I think someone like Mark Farmer or even Scott Williams could make him shine once again at marvel. he still draws the best Wolverine.

[Jessica Drew]

Two words: Alpha Flight

[Faded]

Two words: Alpha Flight

Not a bad choice.

But no Astonishing, please. ;)

[streator]

nothing; i find his work extremely outdated and very boring.

[Jake V]

If Byrne was back on an X-Book, I wouldn't read it.

Pretty simple, really.

[Vegetarian Goat]

i wish he'd continue Hidden Years.. :(

But then, it'd have to be rebooted to a new #1, and re-christened: The New X-Men: The New Hidden Years, which sounds redonkulous.

[Faded]

i wish he'd continue Hidden Years.. :(

But then, it'd have to be rebooted to a new #1, and re-christened: The New X-Men: The New Hidden Years, which sounds redonkulous.

LOL they would do that! ;)

In all honesty, I wouldn't really want him on a book though. I don't mean to sound like I'm jumping on the bandwagon, but 'tis the truth.

[Brian M.]

I disagree. I like his art. I liked Neal Adams art in GSX #3.

[FieryBalrog]

I want him to continue The Hidden Years.

[Brian Cronin]

It'd be interesting to see him draw Uncanny with Ed Brubaker.

Just to see what Jake does. ;)

-Brian

[Stephane Garrelie]

I'll believe it when I'll see it :)
Blood of the Demon have the best Byrne art since 1995. It's a shame that the serie is cancelled.
And his recent X-Men:Back to the Moon commission is awesome.

I'll be happy to have him working for Marvel again, but I don't think it will happen under Queseda.

[Agentum]

Byrne have a habit of making enemys with everyone, its almost amazing he can get jobs.
He should consider to have som kind of muzzle on:D

But i like his art and a lot of his storys.

[TinMan]

I wouldn't want to see the man take over Astonishing, I want my Whedon and Cassaday dammnit! After their run though, I wouldn't mind at all if Byrne took over pencils... as long as he ain't an asshole, that is.

[fishtaco]

He dislikes Quesada's Marvel, so the chances of seeing him on an X-book, or even a Marvel book, are significantly low. I don't like John Byrne much, so I don't want to see him back on an X-book. That Commission piece he just did was brilliant, though.

[Jack Flash]

If he came back (and I don't particularly miss him.) please keep him away from the core books. Give him an alternate reality book. Maybe with Claremont on Exiles?

[Novaya Havoc]

i wish he'd continue Hidden Years.. :(

But then, it'd have to be rebooted to a new #1, and re-christened: The New X-Men: The New Hidden Years, which sounds redonkulous.

What if it was X-Men: The REALLY Hidden Years?

[Keith_Martineau]

I wonder if it'd be wise to have someone so racist and alienating be on the series whose mission statement is about racism and alienation.

[Titan76]

I wouldn't mind seeing him on adj X-men since I can't stand Bachalo's art. As long as Byrne doesn't have a shit load of work to do like drawing three books a month and writing for at least two of them then his art can look real good.

[fishtaco]

I wonder if it'd be wise to have someone so racist and alienating be on the series whose mission statement is about racism and alienation.That's my main problem with him. :)

[comicartfan]

I wonder if it'd be wise to have someone so racist and alienating be on the series whose mission statement is about racism and alienation.
take your martyrdom elsewhere, Byrne has been an ass, sure, insensitive, yes, but he is not a racist.

[Romus]

John Byrne's pencils are awesome... somehow the inking really takes away from it. If they can nail an awesome inker match (Byrne himslef maybe) it would work out great. If he does get on an X book I hope Colossus is part of the team becuase I love how he draws him, hell he does all the characters the best.

[Jack Flash]

I disagree comicartfan. Byrne has portayed himself as a racist ass. if he's not one, then he should think about his statements before he types/says/draws them.

[Titan76]

I disagree comicartfan. Byrne has portayed himself as a racist ass. if he's not one, then he should think about his statements before he types/says/draws them.
Do you have any links that show Byrne being a racist?

[comicartfan]

He's not a racist. You are talking about his remark about "Hispanic or Latino Women". He could have worded that better, he Did not say that Latino Women are dogs, or horrible people because of their race. He said that he prefers Latino Women with Dark hair that matches their dark skin. When he said that BLONDE Latino women look like hookers, yeah, that was a poor choice of words, but it doesn't make him racist. There have been far worse things said by people in comics, and to let John Byrne's words get you so riled up, then You are the one with the problem, not him.let it go already.

[Agentum]

Yes, to all that states that Byrne actualy is a racist today, please give us some facts about this.
It's not something you call people for fun, back it up or shut up.

I'm not saying that you are lying but this is serious.

[Jack Flash]

if you are interested I am sure there are numerous threads on this topic. Do a search to find it. I know it's been in the LITG forum and likely this one and the Comm Board as well. It's not just the blonde latinas look like hookers comment.

But comicartfan I can say what I want about him. just as you can defend him.

But I don't want to de-rail this thread about what book you'd want Byrne on if he came back.

so back to topic. What book would you want Byrne on?

[Hi-Fi]

Yes, to all that states that Byrne actualy is a racist today.


Today?? He quit being a racist??


If it's true that he said that blonde latinas look like hookers, then he is a racist.

[Sentinel K]

Today?? He quit being a racist??


If it's true that he said that blonde latinas look like hookers, then he is a racist.

I disagree.

[Hi-Fi]

I disagree.

Explain yourself.

[Sentinel K]

Explain yourself.

He's not saying he hates, or dislikes them. He's saying blonde haired latinos look like hookers.

You or I may not agree with this but its a fair opinion. Its not like he's saying they should be put into camps and exterminated or anything.

Its the same as if he was to say Ginger haired people are ugly. Its a a pretty vague statement to make, and not wholely accurate, but its not racist.

I dunno why people are making such a fuss.

[Joe Rice]

Racism isn't limited to violent acts. Racism is treating or thinking of people differently because of race.

If blonde latinas look like prostitutes but blonde caucasions do not, that is racism. It's not the absolute worst racism I've ever encountered, but it is a form of it. His "jigaboo" drawings seem to be other evidence of the trend.

Not saying he is, I don't know the man. But he's certainly put enough crap out there to put the question in the air.

[Hi-Fi]

He's not saying he hates, or dislikes them. He's saying blonde haired latinos look like hookers.

You or I may not agree with this but its a fair opinion. Its not like he's saying they should be put into camps and exterminated or anything.

Its the same as him saying Ginger haired people are ugly. Its a a pretty vague statement to make, and not wholely accurate, but its not racist.

I dunno why people are making such a fuss.

So he needs to whish them dead to be racist? I don't think so.

The thing is that he didn't say: blonde women look like hookers, he specifficaly said : blonde latinas look like hookers. Therefore, the race is a major factor of his opinion.

Where you don't see a big deal, I do.

[Agentum]

Today?? He quit being a racist??


If it's true that he said that blonde latinas look like hookers, then he is a racist.
Why not, things change, things that was considered ok to say and do for 30 years ago can be wrong today, names for diffrent races and so on.
He is an old man.

I'm really not defending him he seems to talk first and think later.
I think i saw that HE thought himself that latino women with blonde hair looked like hookers, not that they where hookers or that anybody should think so.

Stupid thing to say but thats Byrne.

He has done worse, i think he called Gene Colans drawings garbage and beyond par, officially, that must have been fun to hear when you have drawn most of your life and really worked hard with it for not much money.

[Hi-Fi]

Not saying he is, I don't know the man. But he's certainly put enough crap out there to put the question in the air.

Exactly. I don't even know the context of this blonde latina thing. But if he really said it like that, he's a racist in my book.

[Joe Rice]

Why not, things change, things that was considered ok to say and do for 30 years ago can be wrong today, names for diffrent races and so on.
He is an old man.

This was not 30 years ago. It was two or three at the most.

[comicartfan]

This is the exact quote by Byrne : "Personal prejudice: Hispanic and Latino women with blond hair look like hookers to me, no matter how clean or "cute" they are. Somehow those skin tones that look so good with dark, dark hair just don't work for me with lighter shades.
Like I said -- personal prejudice. " ---in response to Jessica Alba dyeing her hair Blonde to play Sue Storm

Now, read what you want into it, but he did NOT say anything Racist. Like i said up-thread, he Could have worded it better, but there is nothing claiming his racial superiorty over hispanics. now take the knife out of your back.

[Joe Rice]

Exactly. I don't even know the context of this blonde latina thing. But if he really said it like that, he's a racist in my book.

The context was Byrne complaining about Jessica Alba being cast as Sue Storm. He protested not due to her questionable skills as an actress, but because she was latina and if she were to dye her hair the "correct" color, etc. etc.

[Sentinel K]

So he needs to whish them dead to be racist? I don't think so.

The thing is that he didn't say: blonde women look like hookers, he specifficaly said : blonde latinas look like hookers. Therefore, the race is a major factor of his opinion.

Where you don't see a big deal, I do.

I dunno dude. I'm no racist, but to me there doesn't seem to much wrong with that statement.

Its a STUPID statement, but I dont see it as racist.

[Novaya Havoc]

Racism isn't limited to violent acts. Racism is treating or thinking of people differently because of race.

If blonde latinas look like prostitutes but blonde caucasions do not, that is racism.

I think that's different. I sometimes thought my ex boyfriend -- when he was blond-haired and blue-eyed -- looked like a creepy hooker, too. And he was Vietnamese. I don't see that as racist; it's calling something "unnatural" as being unappealing.

I think (pale) white women who dye their hair jet, jet black look grungy. But that is a generalization. It's not the same thing as being racist.

What I think of Byrne, I don't know. For now, I just think he has strong opinions, and possibly could be prejudiced. But outright racist? Nah.

We sure do talk about racism a lot on CBR. :p

[Joe Rice]

This is the exact quote by Byrne : "Personal prejudice: Hispanic and Latino women with blond hair look like hookers to me, no matter how clean or "cute" they are. Somehow those skin tones that look so good with dark, dark hair just don't work for me with lighter shades.
Like I said -- personal prejudice. " ---in response to Jessica Alba dyeing her hair Blonde to play Sue Storm

Now, read what you want into it, but he did NOT say anything Racist. Like i said up-thread, he Could have worded it better, but there is nothing claiming his racial superiorty over hispanics. now take the knife out of your back.

Judging based on race is racism. The "clean" comment is also pretty indicative.

[Hi-Fi]

This is the exact quote by Byrne : "Personal prejudice: Hispanic and Latino women with blond hair look like hookers to me, no matter how clean or "cute" they are. Somehow those skin tones that look so good with dark, dark hair just don't work for me with lighter shades.
Like I said -- personal prejudice. " ---in response to Jessica Alba dyeing her hair Blonde to play Sue Storm

Now, read what you want into it, but he did NOT say anything Racist. Like i said up-thread, he Could have worded it better, but there is nothing claiming his racial superiorty over hispanics. now take the knife out of your back.

She looks like a hooker to him because of her skin tone, basically.

[Joe Rice]

I think that's different. I sometimes thought my ex boyfriend -- when he was blond-haired and blue-eyed -- looked like a creepy hooker, too. And he was Vietnamese. I don't see that as racist; it's calling something "unnatural" as being unappealing.

I think (pale) white women who dye their hair jet, jet black look grungy. But that is a generalization. It's not the same thing as being racist.

What I think of Byrne, I don't know. For now, I just think he has strong opinions, and possibly could be prejudiced. But outright racist? Nah.

We sure do talk about racism a lot on CBR. :p

I think the problem here is that when we think "racism" we often think "racism" with a capital R, the big time klansman stuff. Racism has many levels and flavors, however, and dumb comments like this one, though "low-level" are indeed indicators of racism of some sort.

Now I honestly think everyone's prejudiced in some way. It's just dumb to come out and say it like that.

[Hi-Fi]

I think that's different. I sometimes thought my ex boyfriend -- when he was blond-haired and blue-eyed -- looked like a creepy hooker, too. And he was Vietnamese. I don't see that as racist; it's calling something "unnatural" as being unappealing.

I think (pale) white women who dye their hair jet, jet black look grungy. But that is a generalization. It's not the same thing as being racist.

What I think of Byrne, I don't know. For now, I just think he has strong opinions, and possibly could be prejudiced. But outright racist? Nah.

We sure do talk about racism a lot on CBR. :p

Well, then he should have said people that dies their hair blonde look like hookers, because it's not their natural color of hair.

[comicartfan]

now, i think that asian women with dark, black hair are some of the most beautiful women on the planet. if i saw one with *choke* blonde hair, she wouldn't be that appealing to me. Same as if i saw a natural blonde with pink hair, doesn't do a thing for me. Now is that racist? no, it's not, it's my personal preference. And that is all Byrne was trying to say. Yes, he is a stubborn , old man, but he isn't a racist. You all that can't see past that really have deeper issues than John Byrne.

[Novaya Havoc]

Ugh. Another argument where no-one can win. Opinions on female beauty are all over the place. Some cry sexism. Others say it's empowering. Some say that it's racist in pressuring women of color to conform to standards of white beauty. Others saying that objecting to women of color trying to look like white women is racist.

Let's stop this roundabout before it just drags everyone down, mmmkay?

[Sentinel K]

Well, then he should have said people that dies their hair blonde look like hookers, because it's not their natural color of hair.

I think he was just talking abot, if it doesn't suit them. If it looks "wrong" next to their skin colour.

I can see where he's coming from. Some people just look odd when they die their hair.

I happen to think that jennifer Alba looked damn hot as blonde tho.

[Hi-Fi]

Let's stop this roundabout before it just drags everyone down, mmmkay?

I couldn't agree more!

[Novaya Havoc]

EDIT: Nevermind. Stopping discussion, ho!

[Joe Rice]

now, i think that asian women with dark, black hair are some of the most beautiful women on the planet. if i saw one with *choke* blonde hair, she wouldn't be that appealing to me. Same as if i saw a natural blonde with pink hair, doesn't do a thing for me. Now is that racist? no, it's not, it's my personal preference. And that is all Byrne was trying to say. Yes, he is a stubborn , old man, but he isn't a racist. You all that can't see past that really have deeper issues than John Byrne.

You're couching your statement in a completely different way. You say you don't like it when Asians dye their hair blonde.

He says Latin women who dye their hair blonde, "even when they're clean" (big giveaway there) look like hookers. Very different statements.

I've got no deeper issues with the man. I'd buy his work if I found it interesting or under an interesting writer. I've probably bought work from far bigger racists. Like I said, I dunno if he is one, but the statement was a rather racist one.

[Hi-Fi]

You all that can't see past that really have deeper issues than John Byrne.


Actually, I love his art and never knew about those things he said til today. If I think he's racist based on this commentaries is not because I have a secret agenda against him, believe me. ;)

[Novaya Havoc]

You're couching your statement in a completely different way. You say you don't like it when Asians dye their hair blonde.

He says Latin women who dye their hair blonde, "even when they're clean" (big giveaway there) look like hookers. Very different statements.

I've got no deeper issues with the man. I'd buy his work if I found it interesting or under an interesting writer. I've probably bought work from far bigger racists. Like I said, I dunno if he is one, but the statement was a rather racist one.

Dude. Just stop. Really.

[Brian M.]

Byrne is an artist. He sometimes writes. His opinion on race or sexual orientation honestly mean nothing more then mine or yours. Like Hollywood and Politics does anyone really care that much?

[Novaya Havoc]

Byrne is an artist. He sometimes writes. His opinion on race or sexual orientation honestly mean nothing more then mine or yours. Like Hollywood and Politics does anyone really care that much?

I do, actually. Won't lie. I won't buy anything by Ethan VanSciver because he's a total homophobe.

[tetragene]

lol, I had to post my .02 cents because I think people tend to take things too far as far as wording goes, as someone seems to think everything is racist.

I think Byrne makes an ass out of himself pretty frequently. Like his longstanding feud with Claremont over the use of "power/explosion" fx-words in comic panels....wtf? But I didn't take the comment as racist, I think some of you are looking too much into it. What I got out of it is "unnatural blonde hair on naturally dark skin" looks unattractive to him. His wording is fairly offensive, calling it hookerish. But I didn't detect any racism in it. So therefore saying blondes in general look unattractive (or in his opinion, like hookers) wouldn't make sense. It's the strong contrast in skin and hair tone that puts him off. I thought Jessica Alba looked great too, but her skin tone also isn't very dark. If I see an Asian, Hispanic, or black girl/boy with blond hair, I have to admit it puts me a little off because it looks so unnatural (mostly in contrast to skins tones) that it's unattractive to me. The same way that (as Novaya pointed out) unnaturally jet black hair on a naturally pale person is unappealing. I'm sure if Byrne had said something to the effect of "dark black hair on a pale caucasian female makes them look like hookers" would have gotten him tons of "he a prick/douche" but would not have enlisted any "he's racist" remarks. I don't see how this is any different.

as for what book I'd like Byrne on. adjectiveless X-Men probably, as I'm not a fan of Bachalo either (then again I don't even plan on reading the title, so eh...lol). I'd love a book that chronicles some more adventures of the Australian Outback era team, I think he'd be good on a book like that.

[Joe Rice]

What's with this at X-Boards? It's like whenever there's a disagreement people are just told to stop discussing. No one's being insulting or mean or obnoxious here. It's a good discussion. I could see it if one of us was screaming or something, but there's no need to drop something at this point. Why are you so timid around disagreement?

[Brian M.]

See I've never not bought something b/c of a writer/artist's personal veiws. I mean Millar and I have the complete opposite views on most things but I love his wor

[Joe Rice]

Just to be clear, his dumb statements or his racist statements do not keep me from buying his work. I buy work from people I disagree with if I find it interesting. I've got no stake in Byrne coming to X-Comics because I don't read many of them anyway. I just think the case for, yeah, that's a racist statement, even in a small way, that needs to be made.

[TinMan]

What's with this at X-Boards? It's like whenever there's a disagreement people are just told to stop discussing. No one's being insulting or mean or obnoxious here. It's a good discussion. I could see it if one of us was screaming or something, but there's no need to drop something at this point. Why are you so timid around disagreement?

As liberal as you are in some cases, this is one place you aren't and I give ya kudo's Joe. I see the same thing, some people run from confrontation around here, dunno why. I feel that as long as personal insults aren't being thrown, then its a productive conversation.

On that note though, I do have to disagree with your sentiment that Byrne's comment was directly racist. I for one don't think black, latin or asian women look great with blonde hair just as I don't think white women look good with jet black hair (the exception being Italian women, but they typically have a naturally darker skin tone to match). Theres nothing wrong with that, its personal preference. I also see his comment as just being over the top really, not necassarily outright racist, I've seen plenty of hookers with some F'd up hair, so its understandable. Sure he could be racist, but I'm not going to make an assumption like that based on one statement, especially if we don't know if he was embellishing it a bit.

[TinMan]

See I've never not bought something b/c of a writer/artist's personal veiws. I mean Millar and I have the complete opposite views on most things but I love his wor

I know I can agree with you on this one, I'm pretty conservative and most comic creators (from what I've learned from interviews) tend to be quite liberal, but I still buy thier work for the quality and talent. I don't have to agree w/ their world views to enjoy the bulk of their work.

[Joe Rice]

As liberal as you are in some cases, this is one place you aren't and I give ya kudo's Joe. I see the same thing, some people run from confrontation around here, dunno why. I feel that as long as personal insults aren't being thrown, then its a productive conversation.

On that note though, I do have to disagree with your sentiment that Byrne's comment was directly racist. I for one don't think black, latin or asian women look great with blonde hair just as I don't think white women look good with jet black hair (the exception being Italian women, but they typically have a naturally darker skin tone to match). Theres nothing wrong with that, its personal preference. I also see his comment as just being over the top really, not necassarily outright racist, I've seen plenty of hookers with some F'd up hair, so its understandable. Sure he could be racist, but I'm not going to make an assumption like that based on one statement, especially if we don't know if he was embellishing it a bit.

I pretty much agree. I don't think this makes him racist, but I do think the statement is one with racist overtones, if that makes sense. He could be, maybe he's not, it's not really my business either way. Maybe he meant the way people are saying "I don't like dark skin tones with blonde hair" but his particular phrasing gives more credence to racial overtones than one necessarily would like.

Like I said, I don't think it's that big a deal, but the STATEMENT is a racist one, as quoted.

[TinMan]

I pretty much agree. I don't think this makes him racist, but I do think the statement is one with racist overtones, if that makes sense. He could be, maybe he's not, it's not really my business either way. Maybe he meant the way people are saying "I don't like dark skin tones with blonde hair" but his particular phrasing gives more credence to racial overtones than one necessarily would like.

Like I said, I don't think it's that big a deal, but the STATEMENT is a racist one, as quoted.

In a sense, it does sound slightly racist, but like I said it kinda depends on whether he's just really passionate in his dislike for that combination of skin/hair color. I know there are times when I embellish on things when I like/dislike them, so who knows, maybe its just one of those situations. Either way, I'm not willing to pass judement on the man, he'll lose my respect if he is racist though.

[Titan76]

This is the exact quote by Byrne : "Personal prejudice: Hispanic and Latino women with blond hair look like hookers to me, no matter how clean or "cute" they are. Somehow those skin tones that look so good with dark, dark hair just don't work for me with lighter shades.
Like I said -- personal prejudice. " ---in response to Jessica Alba dyeing her hair Blonde to play Sue Storm
First off let me say that I am latino and I really don't find this to be really racist. To me, Byrne is just saying that he isn't attractive to latino women with blonde hair and that he thinks they look better with darker hair.

Though I do agree that Byrne should have chosen his words better but I have a question: Was he saying this in a joking matter of some sorts?

If this is the only quote that you guys who call Byrne as a racist have then this is sad. People who said that Byrne is a racist need to show me more then this and not say that I should have to go find it myself because they are the ones who made the claim and they are the ones that need to prove it. This quote here doesn't prove that Byrne is a racist in my eyes, it only proves that he doesn't like latino women with blonde hair but said it in a rude way.

[Novaya Havoc]

What's with this at X-Boards? It's like whenever there's a disagreement people are just told to stop discussing. No one's being insulting or mean or obnoxious here. It's a good discussion.

No. It's not. It's "ARGUMENT A!" "NO, ARGUMENT B!" "BUT ARGUMENT A IS TRUE BECAUSE OF POINT 1, 2, 3!" "BUT IT ISN'T BECAUSE OF POINT 3, 4, 5!"

And then it deviates from not only the thread topic (Byrne on an X-Book), but into discussions of race-relations, gender, gender theory, "white privilege," and a whole host of other issues that, quite frankly, I don't want to discuss on a comic board at this time, in this thread.

All it does is deviate from the core topic, and result in a cyclical shout-match.

[Joe Rice]

This is heresay and bad memory, but weren't some of his covers caught having racist charicatures in the little box thingee? I believe Chris Cross has a story about him, too. There's more evidence. Anyway, it's all hard to prove and easy to weasel out of, so it's hard to say. I don't really care, honestly. He's said enough other dumb things that what little interest I have in his work is pretty well cancelled out.

[Joe Rice]

No. It's not. It's "ARGUMENT A!" "NO, ARGUMENT B!" "BUT ARGUMENT A IS TRUE BECAUSE OF POINT 1, 2, 3!" "BUT IT ISN'T BECAUSE OF POINT 3, 4, 5!"

And then it deviates from not only the thread topic (Byrne on an X-Book), but into discussions of race-relations, gender, gender theory, "white privilege," and a whole host of other issues that, quite frankly, I don't want to discuss on a comic board at this time, in this thread.

All it does is deviate from the core topic, and result in a cyclical shout-match.

But this isn't a degeneration, it's a discussion. Tin Man and myself, for instance are challenging each others views and looking at things in new ways.

This isn't a shouting match. Lord knows they're abundant on the internet. But that doesn't mean we have to drop every discussion as soon as there's a disagreement. If you don't want to participate in the discussion, no one's blaming you. That's fine. But I don't think everyone should drop it just because some folks get queasy.

[Novaya Havoc]

This isn't a shouting match. Lord knows they're abundant on the internet. But that doesn't mean we have to drop every discussion as soon as there's a disagreement. If you don't want to participate in the discussion, no one's blaming you. That's fine. But I don't think everyone should drop it just because some folks get queasy.

That was so self-righteous, even by my own standards.

Fine: de-rail at your leisure.

[Joe Rice]

That was so self-righteous, even by my own standards.

Fine: de-rail at your leisure.


I didn't mean it to be self-righteous and I apologize if it came off that way. My point is, no one is being mean or breaking rules here. There's no reason to end this discussion at this point. I don't think a discussion should be "dropped" when all the participants are behaving well and exchanging ideas honestly.

[DDM]

Since Byrne said he can't comment on the subject, something must be in the works. Money talks...

[Joe Rice]

Since Byrne said he can't comment on the subject, something must be in the works. Money talks...

And when Byrne joins a book, people walk.

I kid, I kid!

[Brian M.]

And when Byrne joins a book, people walk.

I kid, I kid!

As Byrne might put it," They all move to the back of the bus"

If anyone got that, I'm joking, I love all. Except well you over there by the wall, I hate you.

[Joe Rice]

As Byrne might put it," They all move to the back of the bus"

If anyone got that, I'm joking, I love all. Except well you over there by the wall, I hate you.

I hate that guy, too.

[Michael P]

No. It's not. It's "ARGUMENT A!" "NO, ARGUMENT B!" "BUT ARGUMENT A IS TRUE BECAUSE OF POINT 1, 2, 3!" "BUT IT ISN'T BECAUSE OF POINT 3, 4, 5!"

Take out the capital letters, and that's the textbook definition of a discussion.

All it does is deviate from the core topic, and result in a cyclical shout-match.
I'm sorry, aren't you the one who can't let a New Excalibur thread go by without turning it into a soapbox for your rants about Dazzler?

[Novaya Havoc]

I'm sorry, aren't you the one who can't let a New Excalibur thread go by without turning it into a soapbox for your rants about Dazzler?

At least it's discussing New Excalibur and a character within it. John Byrne possibly being a racist or racism in the general (which is where this train o' thoughts was headed) had actually nothing to with:
"My question to you guys.
If [Byrne is] coming back (and it's still a big "if') what book would you want to see him on?"

yea, verily: how i knowest that i would doth be beseiged by accusations of my dazzler arguments. i am undone!

[Joe Rice]

At least it's discussing New Excalibur and a character within it. John Byrne possibly being a racist or racism in the general (which is where this train o' thoughts was headed) had actually nothing to with:
"My question to you guys.
If [Byrne is] coming back (and it's still a big "if') what book would you want to see him on?"

yea, verily: how i knowest that i would doth be beseiged by accusations of my dazzler arguments. i am undone!

If Brian has a problem with the direction of this thread, I'm sure he'll do something about it.

[Mariah]

I personally think that some people have been reading too many x-men comic books because they are soo tempremental over every little thing. I don't know how many threads i've been to where someone has used the racist card at least once or twice. Being half latin, I wasn't offended by the comment in the least. I just think he's an ass, who likes to stir s#it up, and cause some drama. He's very much like 50 cent in that regard.

[Volk1]

I personally think that some people have been reading too many x-men comic books because they are soo tempremental over every little thing. I don't know how many threads i've been to where someone has used the racist card at least once or twice. Being half latin, I wasn't offended by the comment in the least. I just think he's an ass, who likes to stir s#it up, and cause some drama. He's very much like 50 cent in that regard.
lol You're funny.

I just don't get why people DON'T think Byrne's racist. I hate talking about this topic, but if you DON'T think Byrne is NOT a racist, then you need to re-think what racism is. Like someone said before, there are different levels of racism. Slight to major. Byrne has also said things about blacks and has angered the black community. I remember this whole heartedly as Brandon Thomas, an African-American comic book writer wrote a whole-articles worth against Byrne in his article Ambidexterious over on Silverbulletcomicbooks.com. I'm not black, but you just don't say stuff like this in the media, to the public. You're racist? Then keep it to yourself. No matter how much you're "joking" about it, if you say something like that, you have racist tendencies. All the White-American writers at Marvel could be racist, (in various extents) but have they ever said anything in public to magnify a certain race, to ridicule a certain race? Not that I know of. And that's the difference on who gets my money and who doesn't.

I'm a modern-comic book guy anyways, so I own no Byrne work. And I don't care really. I'm not going to buy anything he draws these days, only if I ever buy the old issues to complete my X-run. I try not to care about a writer's political ideas or world theories are, or the writer's personality in general, as long as they keep writing the characters that I love well. But racism draws the line. A few instances, a few "jokes", is one too many.

I met Brubaker. That guys is fk'n the shit! I armwrestled the guy! Why can't all writers be like him.... :(

[Hi-Fi]

I met Brubaker. That guys is fk'n the shit! I armwrestled the guy! Why can't all writers be like him.... :(

Brian K. Vaughan is the nicest guy. As are Mike Carey and Chris Yost. The Luna Brothers were also cool in their forum.

[Christopher O]

So, um, instead of jumping into the race issue, I'll just say that I find Byrne's current work to be dated, sloppy, and not nearly as energetic as it was two decades ago (writing included), so I'd rather not see him working on the X-Men.

[Smarty Jones]

At this stage, I cannot see what John Byrne can contribute to The X-Men. Like with Chris Claremont, I feel his ideas lost their touch years ago. His artwork has been underwhleming to the point it looks dated.

[Yusaku Jon III]

Funny. I must be one of only two or three people responding to this thread so far who actually likes Byrne's artwork. So what if it isn't as tight as it used to be back in the 80s?

However, to answer the main topic question of this thread...

Yes, I would like to see John Byrne on an X-book again, if only for a short penciling assignment. Before I put any faith in rumors and odd hints, though, I might still be reluctant to pick up any new Marvel Byrne books because of my sitting out the current editorial and management regime over some of the things that they've done in the past six years.

Now, on the subject of artists not being so good as they used to be. Even Jack Kirby was developing his more abstract style during the 1960s as he was collaborating on all those Marvel books. Look at Chris Bachalo today! Could it be that some of the problems with Byrne's work might have to do with the inkers he has assigned to him? Because I've seen some truly awful inks on Byrne's early Marvel work (Iron Fist, Marvel Two-In-One, etc). If anything, nobody could top what Terry Austin was able to do for him during that classic X-Men run.

[Mariah]

lol You're funny.

I just don't get why people DON'T think Byrne's racist. I hate talking about this topic, but if you DON'T think Byrne is NOT a racist, then you need to re-think what racism is. Like someone said before, there are different levels of racism. Slight to major. Byrne has also said things about blacks and has angered the black community. I remember this whole heartedly as Brandon Thomas, an African-American comic book writer wrote a whole-articles worth against Byrne in his article Ambidexterious over on Silverbulletcomicbooks.com. I'm not black, but you just don't say stuff like this in the media, to the public. You're racist? Then keep it to yourself. No matter how much you're "joking" about it, if you say something like that, you have racist tendencies. All the White-American writers at Marvel could be racist, (in various extents) but have they ever said anything in public to magnify a certain race, to ridicule a certain race? Not that I know of. And that's the difference on who gets my money and who doesn't.

I'm a modern-comic book guy anyways, so I own no Byrne work. And I don't care really. I'm not going to buy anything he draws these days, only if I ever buy the old issues to complete my X-run. I try not to care about a writer's political ideas or world theories are, or the writer's personality in general, as long as they keep writing the characters that I love well. But racism draws the line. A few instances, a few "jokes", is one too many.

The fact of the matter is, if you let someone get to you, then they are getting exactly what they want. I don't care what people think of me, because they are all inconsequential to me. If they got hit by a bus in front of me, i would feel sorry, but not think of it again probably for the rest of my life. Sticks and stones can break my bones but words only hurt if you let them. I don't agree with what everyone says, but ya know what, it's covered in the 1st amendment.

[Joe Rice]

The fact of the matter is, if you let someone get to you, then they are getting exactly what they want. I don't care what people think of me, because they are all inconsequential to me. If they got hit by a bus in front of me, i would feel sorry, but not think of it again probably for the rest of my life. Sticks and stones can break my bones but words only hurt if you let them. I don't agree with what everyone says, but ya know what, it's covered in the 1st amendment.

Yeah, OK, I guess. I'm not sure the entire point here, but whatever.

I'm not boycotting Byrne's works over any of the stupid or racist thing's he's said. I don't have to, I just find it uninteresting work. But I don't necessarily see anything awful about someone not reading his stuff because he's offended them. Maybe you don't want to help the paycheck of someone you disagree with. I don't necessarily work that way, but I don't think it's a crime or a shame or anything.

[david r]

I'm not sure about John Byrne returning to Marvel. I got a chuckle a year ago when, at a convention, someone asked Joe Quesada if there were any creators he flat-out would never hire for Marvel. Reportedly, Quesada's reply was something like:

"There really aren't any John Byrne creators I would never hire. I try to John Byrne keep an open mind and have tried to reach out John Byrne to past creators that have had issues John Byrne with Marvel. Some have returned, and some John Byrne haven't. But I wouldn't say that John Byrne there is nobody I would ever hire. I feel John Byrne that Marvel has a better John Byrne reputation now, than in the John Byrne past."

[Vegetarian Goat]

I've found a new happy:

John Byrne's art inked by George Pérez:

Kitty Vs. Demon (http://www.comicart-ltd.com/pages/Byrneplate1.htm)

Storm Vs. Proteus (http://www.comicart-ltd.com/pages/Byrneplate2.htm)

Dark Phoenix Vs. Moon-Ray (http://www.comicart-ltd.com/pages/Byrneplate3.htm)

[Brian M.]

I love the Dark Phoenix one. Beautiful.

[Babylon23]

About 10 years ago, I would have hated the idea of Byrne coming back to the x-books. His work at that time didn't appeal to me at all, and I felt he was getting sloppy.

However, his work in recent years has gotten a lot better. I've loved his artwork on Blood of the Demon, Action and Doom Patrol (couldn't stand the stories, but the art was nice on DP). Also, his recent commission pieces are lovely.

Personally, I'd love to see him on something like Exiles or Excalibur.

[Mister Mets]

I'm not sure about John Byrne returning to Marvel. I got a chuckle a year ago when, at a convention, someone asked Joe Quesada if there were any creators he flat-out would never hire for Marvel. Reportedly, Quesada's reply was something like:

"There really aren't any John Byrne creators I would never hire. I try to John Byrne keep an open mind and have tried to reach out John Byrne to past creators that have had issues John Byrne with Marvel. Some have returned, and some John Byrne haven't. But I wouldn't say that John Byrne there is nobody I would ever hire. I feel John Byrne that Marvel has a better John Byrne reputation now, than in the John Byrne past."

Any links?
Although I wouldn't doubt Queseda saying it, or changing his mind afterwards.

So, um, instead of jumping into the race issue, I'll just say that I find Byrne's current work to be dated, sloppy, and not nearly as energetic as it was two decades ago (writing included), so I'd rather not see him working on the X-Men.

That's a fair thing to say.
Since more issues of Hidden Years would only happen with Byrne/ have zero impact on other X-books, I'm surprised that none of the people who dislike his art have suggested a book that would make Marvel/ Byrne money, which there's no pressure to buy.


What's with this at X-Boards? It's like whenever there's a disagreement people are just told to stop discussing. No one's being insulting or mean or obnoxious here. It's a good discussion. I could see it if one of us was screaming or something, but there's no need to drop something at this point. Why are you so timid around disagreement?

The point of the thread isn't whether Byrne's a racist/ jerk (he's probably the latter but that's besides the point), but what people would like to see him draw.

I really don't care that it got derailed, but I could see why someone looking to see what other people think on the subject would get disappointed.

[Mister Mets]

She looks like a hooker to him because of her skin tone, basically.

Nope.
Because of her skin color, and choice of an artificial hair color that rarely (if ever) occurs naturally with people with her skin color.


I wonder if it'd be wise to have someone so racist and alienating be on the series whose mission statement is about racism and alienation.

That has nothing to do with his talents as an artist.
But it's interesting that he still managed to coplot the best regarded X-Men stories ever.
* Note- I'm not saying they're the best (although I do believe that.)
Just the best-regarded.

[Agentum]

All the White-American writers at Marvel could be racist, (in various extents) but have they ever said anything in public to magnify a certain race, to ridicule a certain race? Not that I know of. And that's the difference on who gets my money and who doesn't.

So it's only white people that can be racists? :)
Think again.

[Mariah]

I'm not boycotting Byrne's works over any of the stupid or racist thing's he's said. I don't have to, I just find it uninteresting work. But I don't necessarily see anything awful about someone not reading his stuff because he's offended them. Maybe you don't want to help the paycheck of someone you disagree with. I don't necessarily work that way, but I don't think it's a crime or a shame or anything.
I don't exactly agree with what my government's doing, but i still pay taxes. Especially this President (who, btw, is the only president who has tried to pass an amendment that takes away civil liberties to groups of people) I understand if you don't like his work, don't buy it. The only thing that bugs me, is that how, based on his work did the whole racist thing get brought up? How was that important to the fact of, if he came back to a book, which book would you like to see him on. A lot of these posts saying he's a racist just seems to be bad mouthing someone, who, while shouldn't have said what he did, he already did. Let's move on with it.

[Titan76]

I just don't get why people DON'T think Byrne's racist. I hate talking about this topic, but if you DON'T think Byrne is NOT a racist, then you need to re-think what racism is. Like someone said before, there are different levels of racism.
I can't call Byrne a racist because I havn't seen any quotes from him that I would consider racist. Nor has anyone who calls him a racist shown me or others on this thread any proof, they just say he is a racist and that's that.

Slight to major. Byrne has also said things about blacks and has angered the black community.
What did he say and do you have any links to back up your claims?

[Volk1]

I can't call Byrne a racist because I havn't seen any quotes from him that I would consider racist. Nor has anyone who calls him a racist shown me or others on this thread any proof, they just say he is a racist and that's that. To me, he is. I won't change my mind.


What did he say and do you have any links to back up your claims? You asked for it? I wonder if you'll change your mind now...

Stop Sayin’ Nigger…

By Brandon Thomas
Print This Item

…or better yet, john byrne, just stop sayin’ anything at all.

Trust me when I say I’ve been trying all week not to write this particular piece, because I realize on some level, it’s only giving the man attention he so obviously wants, and so obviously doesn’t deserve, but on a personal level, there’s no way I’m just letting this one ride. And honestly, you shouldn’t either.

For those that haven’t heard, or who managed to forget about it already, industry legend John Byrne has dropped another bit of knowledge onto an unsuspecting public, a train of thought easily joining the ranks of his Christopher Reeve diatribe, and his Invisible Woman comments. While we have come to expect a certain degree of spiteful rhetoric from byrne, this past week he clearly ventured past even his own line of willful ignorance, using what the more politically correct folk refer to as the “N-word,” to presumably aid some argument of his. But that’s not really why he used it.

Blair Marnell chronicled the situation in last week’s ATR, but in typical Internet rapid consumption fashion, after only a few days, most of the initial shock and outrage has worn off, and people are back to speculating just why Ultimate Secret is running so late. I cannot believe that the same branch of fandom that is chattering about the Blue Beetle gettin’ killed, and inevitable price increases, is just consigned to sit back and wait patiently for Byrne to say somethin’ even more hateful and disrespectful than the last thing he just said. Have we really come to the point where this is being excused as “oh, that’s just john byrne being John Byrne?” Are you serious!? Either nobody wants to talk about it, or nobody actually cares, and I’m really curious to find out which it is.

Bottom line, carelessly tossing around the N-word in public is just unacceptable, here in the future, where the rest of us are trying to live. A seemingly mindless debate over whether it’s a “thought bubble” or a “thought balloon” hardly justifies its mention, and byrne’s contention that it constitutes an adequate example of correct usage holds minimal weight, though it does say something about him. Because really, why out of all the other obviously more appropriate terms, did Byrne chose that particular word to illustrate the point? You get one guess, but that’s all you’ll need.

John Byrne had been sitting around waiting for a good opportunity to say it. Maybe it was actually all month, or just the entire week, hell, might’ve been only the whole afternoon, but this dude was probably itching, he wanted to say this word so bad. I mean, he proved that with his unreasonable compulsion to type it over and over again, when he was called on it. Unless we’re meant to subscribe to the explanation that it’s just a word, capable of being thrown into something like this, with no negative connotation whatsoever? Yeah…right. No grown ass man could get behind that “explanation,” and though Byrne would like us to believe he’s really that stupid or naïve, he proves the opposite with each subsequent post, indicating that he knew full well what he was doing, but just couldn’t be bothered to care.

Least with Byrne’s true self on proper display, his “blonde Hispanic hookers” comment is framed in a more obvious context. Why didn’t you just man up and say it, John? Why didn’t you just say that you were really fired up because Fox chose not to cast a blonde-haired blue-eyed Sue Storm? Should’ve left it at that, instead of the elaborate and transparent call for “respect,” which was really your prejudice leaking all over your keyboard. Surprising how someone that finds it intensely disrespectful to use the abbreviations “Supes” and “Bats” on his own website, finds it okay to toss out racial slurs, and continues to prove himself an unconscionable hater of anything more well-regarded than he is. It’s not anyone’s fault that you’re not on the Wizard Top 10, or that people were touting Christopher Reeve as a hero, when that’s so obviously what they should be calling you.

But can we even blame him, though? We’ve created and fostered this environment where any and everybody can successfully hide behind their keyboards, and voice “opinions” they wouldn’t have the balls to say otherwise, and unless I’m completely misinterpreting the vibe out here, john byrne will suffer no consequences for this or any other bit of offensive nonsense he chooses to post up. It’ll be an issue for a couple days, and then we can all go back to lamenting the unfortunate passing of Hawkeye again. Not expecting everyone to have as visceral a reaction to this, for obvious reasons, but I am wrong in looking for at least some level of sustainable outrage? We do spend an awful lot of time going on and on about a variety of things, most of them inconsequential, but really, byrne only pulls this stuff because he’s figured out there’s no consequence.

I appreciate this specific instance makes folks uncomfortable, with the rapid fire usage of racial slurs, but if we feel justified in shoving Micah Wright into comic exile, or impassioned enough to demand that Waid gets reinstated on FF, somebody could encourage aggravated fans to write a letter or two to DC. Personally, I’m sending one their way, and making an effort not to put any extra money in the man’s pocket, but is it asking too much for this to bother people, beyond the House of M press conference?

Maybe if byrne was that dude everyone was talkin’ about, for the right reasons, DC would clamp down on him and tell him to do his comics and shut up. Maybe the fact they haven’t, says a lot about his decidedly bitter disposition, where not even typing the word nigger in sequence garners him more than a passing glance. Then again, maybe he’s just a racist who finally came out of his closet?

And there’s no way in Hell I’m rewarding him for that.

Are you?

Here is the link http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/ambi/111562065575762.htm

Brandon Thomas is an accomplished African-American comic-book writer. I enjoy reading his articles over at Silver Bullet.....
This was posted, I say at least a year ago. The point in reference is when Byrne used the "n" word in an explicit amount of times trying to make an absurd example of something so trivial as a "thought baloon". I forgot the exact contents, but...whatever. I hate to bring in stuff like this, it has no right and I feel bad bringing this thread down like this, but since the majority of the thread is about Byrne being a mean man anyways, then, well, here it is.

I think I'm done with this thread......

[Citizen V]

Im not sure on what to think...Byrne has been away from Uncanny for a long time.Perhaps if he was to be teamed with Claremont that might be a good move for older fans.

[Agentum]

Im not sure on what to think...Byrne has been away from Uncanny for a long time.Perhaps if he was to be teamed with Claremont that might be a good move for older fans.
But can that work, he has a fight with Claremont about if and where soundFX text should be used or not :D

I think basicly people is searching for anything that is bad and stupid in all the text Byrne is writing, in his comics i have not seen any racist comments so i really don't care about this, he can say or do whatever he want in private as long as it doesn't show in his comics.

[tricksterpup]

Brandon Thomas is an accomplished African-American comic-book writer. I enjoy reading his articles over at Silver Bullet.....
This was posted, I say at least a year ago. The point in reference is when Byrne used the "n" word in an explicit amount of times trying to make an absurd example of something so trivial as a "thought baloon". I forgot the exact contents, but...whatever. I hate to bring in stuff like this, it has no right and I feel bad bringing this thread down like this, but since the majority of the thread is about Byrne being a mean man anyways, then, well, here it is.

I think I'm done with this thread......
Yes Volk,
The man is an Idiot and talks before thinking. But he still is a damn fine Penciler. I agree with Agentum, it really doesnt matter what the man says or does in his private life or internet life as long as it doesnt effect his comic work. His work doesnt come across as Racist, that is what editors are for, to keep the writer in check.
Here is a question for you, or any one else: Should your Boss or fellow co-workers and their customers hold anything you say or do at home or in your private life? Should that effect your job if it doesnt effect your job performance?

[Mariah]

Yes Volk,
The man is an Idiot and talks before thinking. But he still is a damn fine Penciler. I agree with Agentum, it really doesnt matter what the man says or does in his private life or internet life as long as it doesnt effect his comic work. His work doesnt come across as Racist, that is what editors are for, to keep the writer in check.
Here is a question for you, or any one else: Should your Boss or fellow co-workers and their customers hold anything you say or do at home or in your private life? Should that effect your job if it doesnt effect your job performance?
It does if you're in the military :eek:

[Jack Flash]

Here is a question for you, or any one else: Should your Boss or fellow co-workers and their customers hold anything you say or do at home or in your private life? Should that effect your job if it doesnt effect your job performance?


well the answer is no, they don't have the right to hold what I do at home (As long as it's not illegal) against me.

But as a customer, I do have the right not to support his work with my wallet. I could also not support a company who employs him. and the thing is, Byrne puts this trash out in the public. He holds court and spews it everywhere across the web. IF he wants to privately be a non-nice person, then cool. But he goes out in public and isn't nice. so your argument doesn't really match up. Does that make sense?

[Mr. Jip]

So does Byrne think his Storm looks like a hooker..?... :eek:

Dark skin, white hair...


Well she always dressed like a hooker in the 70s... :rolleyes: ;) :cool:

[Volk1]

Yes Volk,
The man is an Idiot and talks before thinking. But he still is a damn fine Penciler. I agree with Agentum, it really doesnt matter what the man says or does in his private life or internet life as long as it doesnt effect his comic work. His work doesnt come across as Racist, that is what editors are for, to keep the writer in check.
Here is a question for you, or any one else: Should your Boss or fellow co-workers and their customers hold anything you say or do at home or in your private life? Should that effect your job if it doesnt effect your job performance?

You've got to be kidding me. Of course it MATTERS what he says on the internet. He's a publicly known man, any nonsensical BS he can contrive or says that pegs him as IMO bigoted affects me. I don't care if people think "well that means he's doing what he exactly wants, he's having people talk about him and thus he was won" - well no he hasn't. Because I'm not going to support that brand of stupidity.

This is just an example, but if Bendis, PAD, Millar - ANYBODY - if they ever did something as stupid as this I would immediatley not buy anything they write. Even if it had my favorite artist or my favorite character was starring in it, I just couldn't let that slide. I know men like Bryne. He's old-school, he doesn't fit out emo and pop-centric era, he hasn't been in the game in awhile so he's going to cause a ruckus here and there, spew some shit, act like someone owes him something. Whatever. I don't care if his ideals don't affect his work, because IF he is adhered to certain racial tendencies and makes it publicly known like he's chatting it up in some grungy ass bar with his boys, then I don't think that that man is an upright man, and that he doesn't deserve my money - let alone my following.

You contradicted yourself when you said if it mattered what he says in his public life vs his internet life. Because that is a huge fk difference. Of course if one keeps everything to himself, doesn't let anyone know he's a closet racist, and it doesn't affect one's performance work, well of course bosses can't do anything about it because They don't know! But once you let it out in the open, in the public, then its open season....of course....this all just my opinion. Hate me for it if you must.....

[Novaya Havoc]

Here is a question for you, or any one else: Should your Boss or fellow co-workers and their customers hold anything you say or do at home or in your private life? Should that effect your job if it doesnt effect your job performance?

Trickster,

These questions are being asked by everyone. Especially given the internet and public venues. These comments come straight from Byrne's "mouth" onto a public forum. I love the internet as a social outlet as much as anyone else, but sadly, the realm of privacy is shrinking all around.

Him posting these thoughts onto a message board can be argues as corresponding to something like a print interview. Or something said at a convention.

Livejournals, Myspaces, Facebooks... all are being increasingly "mined" and "raided" for various sorts of information: from gentle gossip amongst peers, to your boss reading disparaging remarks you make about your work situation (and firing you for it!), to criminal investigations.

Do I necessarily agree? No. I like having a "private yet public" forum as much as anyone else. Do I see where the lines blur and this is problematic? Yes.

This isn't a matter of Byrne's personal opinion on a matter. It is a matter of his public record on the topic. By posting on a public forum, it enters the public discourse. Unfortunate, maybe. But he invited his own critique, just as he would if he published it in WIZARD.