The Collective [as relates to the X-Men] (**SPOILERS + SPECULATION**) [Archive]

Faded

04-21-2006, 02:02 AM

...and how it affects our favorite mutants.

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http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/7191/scan7jc.jpg

According to this week's edition of New Avengers, issue 18, we learn that the menacing threat "The Collective", is so menacing because its power source is that of the mutant energies of former mutants, who lose their powers due to House of M/Decimation.

Do you guys think this could be a way to officially repower mutants? How do you think Marvel would do it or how would you do it?

*Just moving a subject we talked about into its own thread*

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Personally, I think since Deadly Genesis has said it ties into Decimation, could this be how Polaris regains her original powers by the time Brubaker and Tan hope onboard the Uncanny train? I think the mutant energies, while currently a big deal in New Avengers, could still be a large part of Brubaker's Uncanny run since it was what awoken (or possibly ressurected) Vulcan.

Could this explain how Chamber is alive by New Excalibur's ninth issue (which occurs after Deadly Genesis and during the first issue of Bru's UXM).

Hopefully.

More thoughts later, even though I'm probably reading rocks as boulders.

Its late...I might regret posting somethng so silly in the morning.

*was inspired by Beast*

Will.S

04-21-2006, 02:42 AM

Personally, I think since Deadly Genesis has said it ties into Decimation, could this be how Polaris regains her original powers by the time Brubaker and Tan hope onboard the Uncanny train? I think the mutant energies, while currently a big deal in New Avengers, could still be a large part of Brubaker's Uncanny run since it was what awoken (or possibly ressurected) Vulcan.

Could this explain how Chamber is alive by New Excalibur's ninth issue (which occurs after Deadly Genesis and during the first issue of Bru's UXM).
I think that both Lorna's new powers and Chamber's return will be Apocalypse related seeing as how Polaris has some new powers in Blood of Apocalypse and something seems to be brewing regarding the Starsmore name in Apocalypse vs Dracula.

Interesting thoughts on Brubaker's Uncanny though, I would like to see more of the mutant energies explored as far as it's more wide reaching areas go.

jawbreaker

04-21-2006, 08:53 PM

I dont think so really, Joe Q seems pretty adamant that they not be getting their powers back...I could see them defeating this Collective guy & the mutants getting their powers back for a future story(or, event?) but not anytime soon...

& I hope Chamber's return has nothing to do with Apocalypse...Id rather he be cyberized or something else...that is if he even gets out of his coma...he might not...he might again be a prop to gawk at in the Excal story like he was in Generation M...

Faded

04-21-2006, 10:41 PM

I dont think so really, Joe Q seems pretty adamant that they not be getting their powers back...

Yeah, but its possible he's said what he said to cover up future events. Wouldn't be the first time. ;)

BTW http://www.UncannyXMen.net has named all of the depowered mutants on that screen : http://uncannyxmen.net/db/characters/showstatus.asp?stat=5

As a note, know that some characters listed there are depowered characters in general--some not mutants, some depowered by other means.

Suspiciously, Angel Salvadore wasn't on the screen. Could be a mix up though since a lot of stuff was out of alphabetical order or didn't match the text on their computer screens--but I'm holding hope for my favorite bug girl!!! :D

Beast

04-21-2006, 10:48 PM

Suspiciously, Angel Salvadore wasn't on the screen. Could be a mix up though since a lot of stuff was out of alphabetical order or didn't match the text on their computer screens--but I'm holding hope for my favorite bug girl!!! :D
That's because Marvel didn't want her to even survive Decimation. The Beak Babies were supposed to have been wiped out of existance, and Angel IV was supposed to have died from what Proteus did to her. This was so that Beak could remain a mutant and continue to be used. Tony Bedard faught for a happy ending for the characters, and all of them were depowered instead. This simply means that Beak could possibly regain his powers at some point, where as Angel's energies did not apperantly become part of the collective. :)

Faded

04-21-2006, 10:57 PM

That's because Marvel didn't want her to even survive Decimation. The Beak Babies were supposed to have been wiped out of existance, and Angel IV was supposed to have died from what Proteus did to her. This was so that Beak could remain a mutant and continue to be used. Tony Bedard faught for a happy ending for the characters, and all of them were depowered instead. This simply means that Beak could possibly regain his powers at some point, where as Angel's energies did not apperantly become part of the collective. :)

GARR!!! :mad:

Thanks Beast.

And Tony Bedard.

Beast

04-21-2006, 10:58 PM

GARR!!! :mad:

Thanks Beast.

And Tony Bedard.
Hey, at least Angel didn't die and the babies get wiped from existance. :)

Volk1

04-21-2006, 11:02 PM

http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/7191/scan7jc.jpg[/img]

Personally, I think since Deadly Genesis has said it ties into Decimation, could this be how Polaris regains her original powers by the time Brubaker and Tan hope onboard the Uncanny train? I think the mutant energies, while currently a big deal in New Avengers, could still be a large part of Brubaker's Uncanny run since it was what awoken (or possibly ressurected) Vulcan.
*

*sniff* That page is beautiful..... :)

I talked about this earlier with my friend. I want it to happen because I want a certain precognitive mutant re-powered and I'm greedy *like Marvel* :p

But my friend was like, then what the hell was the point of HoM and Decimation?

Because Marvel wants our money duh!

We'll see what happens. But I think if they did this, there might be some backlash by fans. I think they might outweigh the fans who'd prefer an obsure mutant re-powered...

Anxious to find out though... :D

Faded

04-21-2006, 11:16 PM

*sniff* That page is beautiful..... :)

I talked about this earlier with my friend. I want it to happen because I want a certain precognitive mutant re-powered and I'm greedy *like Marvel* :p

But my friend was like, then what the hell was the point of HoM and Decimation?

Because Marvel wants our money duh!

We'll see what happens. But I think if they did this, there might be some backlash by fans. I think they might outweigh the fans who'd prefer an obsure mutant re-powered...

Anxious to find out though... :D

I think Marvel will be slick about it.

They milked the passion of depowering Iceman, Polaris, Quicksilver, etc... but have started to bring them back.

I can see some gradual process repowering mutants (while at the same time leaving the empty million others that have never been seen on panel before). It'd be an interesting story to see some characters seeing it as a religious thing--where you are visited by the energies because you are special or chosen.

As for motivation, House of M/Decimation could've been that we had so many mutants not used and forgotten, could this be Bendis/Marvel/Quesada's way of invigorating interest in the powered obscure (ie. Erg, Sack, etc.) and bring out fans of the obscure when their faves are depowered (like when there was more attention to Psylocke after she died)?

After all, Bendis loves his unused characters (Spiderwoman, Dazzler, Ms. Marvel). If my probably untrue speculation is right, as a fan I was passionately mad at the depowering of characters and would be ultra excited (and ultra interested) when/if they are depowered [I even picked up New Avengers for this!].

But I'm stretching it. :D

Volk1

04-21-2006, 11:37 PM

I can see some gradual process repowering mutants (while at the same time leaving the empty million others that have never been seen on panel before). It'd be an interesting story to see some characters seeing it as a religious thing--where you are visited by the energies because you are special or chosen. That's deep. A "why-me?" type of thing. I'd love it if a writer could make this happen and brilliantly write a gut-wrenching and tear-jerker of a story with that "lost-now found" plot device driving the book.....but I don't think it's going to happen anytime soon...not with what Bru and Barey seem to have planned right off the bat....

As for motivation, House of M/Decimation could've been that we had so many mutants not used and forgotten, could this be Bendis/Marvel/Quesada's way of invigorating interest in the powered obscure (ie. Erg, Sack, etc.) and bring out fans of the obscure when their faves are depowered (like when there was more attention to Psylocke after she died)?

After all, Bendis loves his unused characters (Spiderwoman, Dazzler, Ms. Marvel). If my probably untrue speculation is right, as a fan I was passionately mad at the depowering of characters and would be ultra excited (and ultra interested) when/if they are depowered [I even picked up New Avengers for this!]. So you're saying their intention was to purposely make us kinda mad/angry/sad about them depowering some of fave mutants only to keep us in tune to await their revivals? Damn those head-messing Marvel people. But I could truly see that as a factor into their plans. $hit, I'm a prime example. Those Marvel people are always one-step ahead...

We all know that JoeQ wanted to decrease the mutant population significantly. The off-panel mutants you speak of are probably the ones he was targeting. Because, I mean, can we all see Chamber, Jubilee, Wind Dancer being de-powered forever? No. And no.
Maybe they decided to give some of these mutants a break because there were no plans immediately for them, meanwhile increasing our thirst for their returns. Faded, I think you hit the proverbial nail on the head! :cool:

If my probably untrue speculation is right Why do I find that negative tone hot? lol But you ARE probably right....

Faded

04-21-2006, 11:54 PM

Yay! You caught my drift. I was afraid my wording wasn't as coherant as I'd like.

That's deep. A "why-me?" type of thing. I'd love it if a writer could make this happen and brilliantly write a gut-wrenching and tear-jerker of a story with that "lost-now found" plot device driving the book.....but I don't think it's going to happen anytime soon...not with what Bru and Barey seem to have planned right off the bat....

Exactly. I think there is some of that feeling now--"why me", "why not me". There world has been turned upside down only to be turned rightside up again. But sometimes repair still hurts just as much as initial destruction (ie break ups are hard, but forgiving someone could be harder).

So you're saying their intention was to purposely make us kinda mad/angry/sad about them depowering some of fave mutants only to keep us in tune to await their revivals? Damn those head-messing Marvel people. But I could truly see that as a factor into their plans. $hit, I'm a prime example. Those Marvel people are always one-step ahead...

We all know that JoeQ wanted to decrease the mutant population significantly. The off-panel mutants you speak of are probably the ones he was targeting. Because, I mean, can we all see Chamber, Jubilee, Wind Dancer being de-powered forever? No. And no.
Maybe they decided to give some of these mutants a break because there were no plans immediately for them, meanwhile increasing our thirst for their returns. Faded, I think you hit the proverbial nail on the head!

Exactly. Its one of those things like "you don't know what you got 'til its gone" sorta things. This could be a rebuilding of sorts using what we already have/had.

I've always thought Joe Q was a hipocrit for saying he wanted to reduce the mutant populaton, especially since the 'mutant explosion' in Morrison's New X-Men, D/W's New Mutants/New X-Men, and District X all took place under his reign.

Still...this is probably all in my head. Inaccurate theories seem to be my speciality. ;)

Why do I find that negative tone hot? lol But you ARE probably right....

LOL :o

xakko

04-22-2006, 06:53 AM

these are the energies that didn't go into Vulcan, I take it?

gah, this isn't enticing me to read Bendis, i can say that.

Zombienorthstar

04-22-2006, 07:18 AM

these are the energies that didn't go into Vulcan, I take it?

gah, this isn't enticing me to read Bendis, i can say that.

I thought the energy just woke Vulcan up...anyhoo it doesnt take much to fully charge one mutant...houndreds of thousands of mutant energies shoudls till be left.

i admit this isnt a big revelation for me..Joe Q kind of ruined it by saying that the leftover mutant energy would be dealt with in NA.

xakko

04-22-2006, 07:19 AM

I thought the energy just woke Vulcan up...anyhoo it doesnt take much to fully charge one mutant...houndreds of thousands of mutant energies shoudls till be left.

i admit this isnt a big revelation for me..Joe Q kind of ruined it by saying that the leftover mutant energy would be dealt with in NA.
i thought it supercharged him - he didn't seem to be Omega in the flashbacks, now he seems to be the most powerful mutant on the planet.

fishtaco

04-22-2006, 10:12 AM

So Agent Zero, Wildchild, and Tarot are all de-powered now? God, I loathe Bendis. :mad:

Twigglet

04-22-2006, 10:28 AM

So Agent Zero, Wildchild, and Tarot are all de-powered now? God, I loathe Bendis. :mad:

Y'know it wasn't just his decision.

Beast

04-22-2006, 10:29 AM

So Agent Zero, Wildchild, and Tarot are all de-powered now? God, I loathe Bendis. :mad:
Bendis didn't have everything to do with the picks of who was depowered.

fishtaco

04-22-2006, 10:32 AM

Bendis didn't have everything to do with the picks of who was depowered.But "no more mutants" was his idea. He gets the blame in my book.

Beast

04-22-2006, 10:36 AM

But "no more mutants" was his idea. He gets the blame in my book.
No, the depowering of mutants was Joe Quesada's desire to cut away all the glut of the millions of mutants and get it back to a very small minority of mutants. It was just Bendis task to deal with how to do it. Frankly, the post HoM books have been the best that X-Men as a whole has been in about a decade. There's a strong purpose again, instead of just the directionless focus that the X-Men have had for years.

Will.S

04-22-2006, 11:01 AM

No, the depowering of mutants was Joe Quesada's desire to cut away all the glut of the millions of mutants and get it back to a very small minority of mutants. It was just Bendis task to deal with how to do it. Frankly, the post HoM books have been the best that X-Men as a whole has been in about a decade. There's a strong purpose again, instead of just the directionless focus that the X-Men have had for years.
Indeed, the x-books needed a jumpstart.

Twigglet

04-22-2006, 11:36 AM

Sentinel K

04-22-2006, 11:49 AM

But "no more mutants" was his idea. He gets the blame in my book.

Why don't you just consider it 'non-canon' then. Like everything post 1993.

Nyssane

04-22-2006, 12:14 PM

Beast

04-22-2006, 12:25 PM

I'm sure you wouldn't have liked it if your dear little Beast got depowered and we never saw him again.

Put yourself in our shoes. :P
Oh trust me, I'm not happy with some of the depowerings either. A couple of my favorites were depowered. At least they didn't take the more permanent option of killing all the mutants instead, well... other than Banshee and most of the cast of New X-Men. But to place all the blame on Bendis is unfair. And whether you like the choices of who was depowered or not, it did give the books a much needed boost and direction.

Flight

04-22-2006, 12:40 PM

If Ms. "Marvel" (if that IS her real name!) got back her Binary powers by merging with him, what would happen if a depowered mutant did that too?
Or don't any of you BRAINIACS actually know?
Ha! I thought as much...

UniqueFrequency

04-22-2006, 01:06 PM

I'm sure you wouldn't have liked it if your dear little Beast got depowered and we never saw him again.

Put yourself in our shoes. :P

i think i saw Flex, Radius and Murmur as depowered somewhere. not happy with that one bit!

Zombienorthstar

04-22-2006, 01:13 PM

So Agent Zero, Wildchild, and Tarot are all de-powered now? God, I loathe Bendis. :mad:

Im fairly sure Bendis didnt decide the no more mutants policy...that was dictated at a story conference and he worked it in.

Plus he most likely didnt choose all the mutants that were to be depowered personally.

Faded

04-22-2006, 03:06 PM

With a big confirmed list of depoweredees--I hope that at the very least these characters get some story time (I'm looking at YOU Murmur, Xorn, Phantazia, Tarot, Tattoo, and Scanner).

If they get no story time or repowerment I'll be very pissed that they couldn't at least give us the satisfaction of unconfirmedness (especially since Phantazia could've been a candidate to appear in Carey's X-Men).

Oh and I'd say the new 'direction' isn't what is giving us new stories, at least iMO. The only title I think benefitting is X-Factor, and even there I wouldn't call Decimation the cause for its success. Otherwise, its just Whedon, Claremont, and Bedard are bringing their A-Games at the mo IMO.

Cowlander

04-22-2006, 04:05 PM

Im fairly sure Bendis didnt decide the no more mutants policy...that was dictated at a story conference and he worked it in.

Plus he most likely didnt choose all the mutants that were to be depowered personally.
Shhhhh, youre not suppose to let LOGIC get in the way of gross generaliztions and fanboy rage.

On topic,

Personally the idea of "mutant" energy has always been iffy. Even with comic science, it really seems to be an excuse for the stories to come out of it. I've enjoyed those stories so its cool with me. BUt I'm really wondering when Lil Mikey gonna exhibit Blobs power LOL.

Beast

04-22-2006, 04:59 PM

Personally the idea of "mutant" energy has always been iffy. Even with comic science, it really seems to be an excuse for the stories to come out of it. I've enjoyed those stories so its cool with me. BUt I'm really wondering when Lil Mikey gonna exhibit Blobs power LOL.
Like was said above, I'd rather see him whip out a baseball bat and kick some major as with Beak's 'powers'. :D

tangentman

04-22-2006, 05:03 PM

Who says that the Collective will return the powers to their original hosts, if the decimated mutants get repowered?

jawbreaker

04-22-2006, 08:35 PM

how would you even defeat someone as powerful as that? Heck how do you defeat someone who has reality warping powers?

good guy-I defeated you, give up!

bad guy-um no *poof* now youre defeated!

good guy- dammit!

Jmacq1

04-24-2006, 06:49 AM

He doesn't seem to have a lot of control over his powers, really.

But in terms of "re-powerment" there's a certain Master-of-Magnetism that shows up on an upcoming cover....

Then again, despite a prominent role in X3, given the rumors that are flitting about concerning Mags' storyline in it, I'm not too sure they'd re-power him anytime soon. In fact they may just kill him off.

Apocalypse Now Then!

04-24-2006, 08:25 AM

Who says any repowering will occur.

I thik its more likely that when the Collective is defeated the numerous powers will disperse into a whole new generation of children, allowing more mutants to be born in the future.

But I doubt anybody will be actively repowered.

MDactor1980

04-24-2006, 08:55 AM

So essentiaqlly... the Collective is a humanoid version of a "Care Bear Stare"?

Apocalypse Now Then!

04-24-2006, 09:03 AM

So essentiaqlly... the Collective is a humanoid version of a "Care Bear Stare"?

Kinda.

All the powers of the depowered mutants kind of mingled together into the big energy source from the end of House of M, orbitting the planet.

That force has chosen to inhabit the body of a postal worker from Canada?

On giant melting pot of power. Hopefully it will burn out that guy's body a dissipate, but even if it did it could probably find a new host and start again.

MDactor1980

04-24-2006, 09:25 AM

Oooh... like a new Phoenix force...

Apocalypse Now Then!

04-24-2006, 09:42 AM

Oooh... like a new Phoenix force...

A non-alien force caused by a major brand wide storyline. In many eways that makes it a bit less contrived than the Phoenix. This one is a scientifically plausible symptom of DeciMation.

Beast

04-24-2006, 10:02 AM

A non-alien force caused by a major brand wide storyline. In many eways that makes it a bit less contrived than the Phoenix. This one is a scientifically plausible symptom of DeciMation.
Scientifically plausible? Bwah-hah-hah-hah. :D

Faded

04-24-2006, 02:14 PM

Who says any repowering will occur.

Speculating.

Beast

04-24-2006, 02:18 PM

Speculating.
And hoping. At least on a few choices. :)

Faded

04-24-2006, 02:20 PM

And hoping. At least on a few choices. :)

Beak for Beast and Scanner for Faded. :)

Beast

04-24-2006, 02:28 PM

Beak for Beast and Scanner for Faded. :)
Yeah, so annoyed that Beak was depowered. Best new character in years!

Sentinel K

04-24-2006, 02:29 PM

Yeah, so annoyed that Beak was depowered. Best new character in years!

I wanted to see Beak develop into a double-hard bastard. Like Tito in HCT.

Faded

04-24-2006, 02:34 PM

Yeah, so annoyed that Beak was depowered. Best new character in years!

And I was so annoyed when you told me the people at Marvel were so adamant in killing Angel (IV). :mad:

Thank you, Mr. Bedard for not making that so. :D

jawbreaker

04-24-2006, 10:07 PM

That force has chosen to inhabit the body of a postal worker from Canada?
that a joke or is that what really happened?

you know what i was thinking...if all that energy got intermingled together & that energy included Chamber's sentience(since Chamber supposedly is his energy) then maybe thats why its sentient...

of course, now that i actually posted it on the forum its not going to happen...ah well...

Faded

04-24-2006, 10:37 PM

that a joke or is that what really happened?

you know what i was thinking...if all that energy got intermingled together & that energy included Chamber's sentience(since Chamber supposedly is his energy) then maybe thats why its sentient...

of course, now that i actually posted it on the forum its not going to happen...ah well...

Oh don't worry, it was already nixed because I like Chamber. Good things rarely come for characters I like. ;)