New Mutants Classic Vol 1 - out tomorrow!

[Indigo Al]

Anyone gonna get it?

Here is the solicit from Marvel:

http://www.marvel.com/catalog/?id=4114

[The Lucky One]

I'm torn... I already have all the issues and thus would feel pretty stupid buying it. But on the other hand, Marvel seriously needs to wake up and remember what an amazing book that was in its prime (at least as good as what was going on in UXM at the same time), and devote more resources to making newer readers realize that as well. But on the other other hand, the first few issues were decent but not spectacular, it didn't get really great until a year, year and a half in.

[EDIT: okay, with the exception of the crossover appearance in UXM #167, which is far and away my favorite issue of the X-Men ever. AWESOME story.]

I dunno, it's like the whole DVD thing- they release a collection of a few random episodes of your favorite show, and you don't want to get it because you're holding out for full season sets... but if you don't buy the random collection, the studio figures there's no interest and never makes season sets. Damn catch-22!

-D

[rilokyle]

I'm looking forward to this tbp, as I would love to see how the New Mutants were formed, etc. I think the series really got going when Magik joined, so I guess if I want to see those issues, I'm going to have to buy these ones lol. But no, I'd really like to see these first issues- its like a blast from the past!

[Mariah]

I'm looking forward to this tbp, as I would love to see how the New Mutants were formed, etc. I think the series really got going when Magik joined, so I guess if I want to see those issues, I'm going to have to buy these ones lol. But no, I'd really like to see these first issues- its like a blast from the past!
Exactly, Chris just needed to get his groove on and figure the characters out. His best characters in that book had to be far and away--Dani, Illyana, and Doug. Although, I also had a thing for Sam and the way CC portrayed him as the shy, older brother type to everyone.

[rilokyle]

Exactly, Chris just needed to get his groove on and figure the characters out. His best characters in that book had to be far and away--Dani, Illyana, and Doug. Although, I also had a thing for Sam and the way CC portrayed him as the shy, older brother type to everyone.

Yeah, if you think about it, in general all of Chris' New Mutants had a lot of depth and personality. Each character was so diverse and different, and I think that's something a lot of people overlook these days. You have a farm hick, a Vietnamese girl with serious family issues, a strong-willed Chyenne, a pious and self-loathing Scottish wolf girl, a cocky Brazillian, a sheltered and out of time jungle princess, a demonic Russian with a horrific childhood, a naive alien, and a regular joe schmo with a "weak" power. Such a great lineup. Each character was his or her own person and I appreciate that dynamic very much.

[Mariah]

Yeah, if you think about it, in general all of Chris' New Mutants had a lot of depth and personality. Each character was so diverse and different, and I think that's something a lot of people overlook these days. You have a farm hick, a Vietnamese girl with serious family issues, a strong-willed Chyenne, a pious and self-loathing Scottish wolf girl, a cocky Brazillian, a sheltered and out of time jungle princess, a demonic Russian with a horrific childhood, a naive alien, and a regular joe schmo with a "weak" power. Such a great lineup. Each character was his or her own person and I appreciate that dynamic very much.
Are you like um...reading my thoughts??? Cause we are soo in synch on this issue.

[tangentman]

An important trait of New Mutants was the kids were "Teenagers first, super-powered mutants second". Fans got insights into the cast's joys and insecurities--Rahne's self-loathing, Dani's willfulness and fierce independence, Sam's awkwardness, Illyana's angst, Bobby's ego and petulance, Doug's geekiness, Warlock's social ineptness, Amara's whirlwind adaptation to the modern world (good metaphor for beginning high school). We had many teen "firsts" shown through the eyes of the kids--leaving home, starting high school (or college, as was the case with Shan), exploring new styles, falling in love. Claremont's New Mutants is the "sleeper" hit of the 80's, imo.

[Beast]

An important trait of New Mutants was the kids were "Teenagers first, super-powered mutants second". Fans got insights into the cast's joys and insecurities--Rahne's self-loathing, Dani's willfulness and fierce independence, Sam's awkwardness, Illyana's angst, Bobby's ego and petulance, Doug's geekiness, Warlock's social ineptness, Amara's whirlwind adaptation to the modern world (good metaphor for beginning high school). We had many teen "firsts" shown through the eyes of the kids--leaving home, starting high school (or college, as was the case with Shan), exploring new styles, falling in love. Claremont's New Mutants is the "sleeper" hit of the 80's, imo.
And he didn't need to murder most of the cast to make it a good read. :)

[Mariah]

And he didn't need to murder most of the cast to make it a good read. :)
HA!!! That's why I love u beast. So quick and blunt, yet soo coy and nice about things. :D

[tangentman]

And he didn't need to murder most of the cast to make it a good read. :)

Give me credit, I was trying to be polite and avoid any references to that title.

[LoneWolf21]

I'm in the same boat as LuckyOne. I have every issue of the book, already, so it'd be a bit odd to buy it....maybe I could give as a gift to someone?

[Twigglet]

I've heard good things about this title, so I'm gonna slowly start buying the backissues (which are cheaper, and I'm a sucker for reading old ads and letter pages).

I'm currently on issue 11 (I need to finish the Rome storyline :evilangry )

I aim to soon have at least the first 30 issues.

[Blackcat]

Not gonna get it, because I got the originals still.

[fishtaco]

And he didn't need to murder most of the cast to make it a good read. :)Heh heh.

I'm definitely getting it.

[rilokyle]

Are you like um...reading my thoughts??? Cause we are soo in synch on this issue.

We're basically soulmates. We totally own the New Mutants. :cool:

[rilokyle]

And he didn't need to murder most of the cast to make it a good read. :)
That definatelty took me a minute to figure out. Wow I'm slow. :p

[The Lucky One]

We totally own the New Mutants. :cool:

*ahem* I'd have to take issue with that assessment, but if you'd like to lease them, I might be willing to let them go temporarily...

-D

[Madrox84]

I'll definately be getting it... Along with the Classic Excalibur tpb that i have had in my folder for weeks...

[DDM]

I've heard good things about this title, so I'm gonna slowly start buying the backissues (which are cheaper, and I'm a sucker for reading old ads and letter pages).

I'm currently on issue 11 (I need to finish the Rome storyline :evilangry )

I aim to soon have at least the first 30 issues.

The Nova Roma storyline is basically finished with The New Mutants #11 (they defeat Selene), but the following issue deals with Amara's insurities of her newfound mutant powers.

The Amahl Farouk storyline is The New Mutants #29-34. The first three issues simply deal with the Gladiators, Farouk's team of mutants. The last three issues deal with Farouk himself.

[Mariah]

We're basically soulmates. We totally own the New Mutants. :cool:
I thought there was someone else in me...wait, that's not what i meant. I meant spiritually honest ;)

[Marty4Magik]

Not gonna buy it, I already own the individual issues....

[Mariah]

Not gonna buy it, I already own the individual issues....
Rock out with your (0(k out.

[xakko]

Not gonna buy it, I already own the individual issues....
i do too- though i've temporarily misplaced my New Mutant graphic novel.

i still bought it. i saw it in the store, debated with myself, and lost. or won, i forget. anyway, it's MINE!

[shakespear]

I love the NM! It was my favorite book at the time. You should be able to pick up the whole run for $120. The only expensive book the first appearence of Deadpool.

I love X-force too!

Magik was my favorite I HATED what they did to her!

[Dr Ray Palmer]

Exactly, Chris just needed to get his groove on and figure the characters out. His best characters in that book had to be far and away--Dani, Illyana, and Doug. Although, I also had a thing for Sam and the way CC portrayed him as the shy, older brother type to everyone.

I agree that it took a while for the book to get going. The earliest issues -- the ones collected in this TPB -- are a good, solid read, but I don't think things really got going and started to fire on all cylinders until Illyana joined. I think it's partly that she was such a great character and added a lot to the book, but I also agree that it took CC a while to get his groove on. Things really got good when Illyana joined, then we had the excellent Hellions arc, and then when Bill Sienkiewicz came onboard as artist things just went through the stratosphere. I don't know if having Sienkiewicz as artist made CC think about writing in a different way or what, but their run together is amazing, and one of my all-time favorite writer/artist runs on any book, ever.

I remember reading the book each month as it came out, and Sienkiewicz's first issue just blew my mind, because it was completely unlike any comic book I've ever seen. It really made me think about comics as a medium in a different way and with more potential than I'd really thought about before.

So anyway, I'll be buying this first TPB from Amazon (cos it'll be cheaper there), even though I already have all the old issues, but I'm really looking forward to the next couple of collections of this series -- fingers crossed that Marvel decides to release them. It's a crime that Sienkiewicz's NM run isn't available in a nice TPB.

Oh, and Mariah, I loved Chris Claremont's Sam, too. I liked that he was shy, gawky, and awkward, but tried really hard to do the right thing and couldn't help but be the big brother to everyone. It was terrific watching him grow and change as CC's run went on. I've never felt any other writer has ever really "gotten" Sam and what makes him an amazing character. It was great watching CC write him again towards the end of X-Treme X-Men, so I was bummed when he got yanked out of Uncanny to go be in that Rob Liefeld thing, and have been disappointed that now that Chris Claremont has FINALLY gotten his hands on Sam again, we've barely seen him because it's been The Rachel & Betsy Show.

[Mariah]

I agree that it took a while for the book to get going. The earliest issues -- the ones collected in this TPB -- are a good, solid read, but I don't think things really got going and started to fire on all cylinders until Illyana joined. I think it's partly that she was such a great character and added a lot to the book, but I also agree that it took CC a while to get his groove on. Things really got good when Illyana joined, then we had the excellent Hellions arc, and then when Bill Sienkiewicz came onboard as artist things just went through the stratosphere. I don't know if having Sienkiewicz as artist made CC think about writing in a different way or what, but their run together is amazing, and one of my all-time favorite writer/artist runs on any book, ever.
Oh, and Mariah, I loved Chris Claremont's Sam, too. I liked that he was shy, gawky, and awkward, but tried really hard to do the right thing and couldn't help but be the big brother to everyone. It was terrific watching him grow and change as CC's run went on. I've never felt any other writer has ever really "gotten" Sam and what makes him an amazing character. It was great watching CC write him again towards the end of X-Treme X-Men, so I was bummed when he got yanked out of Uncanny to go be in that Rob Liefeld thing, and have been disappointed that now that Chris Claremont has FINALLY gotten his hands on Sam again, we've barely seen him because it's been The Rachel & Betsy Show.
I agree, although, i thought if CC had stayed on Uncanny, we'd have gotten lots of Sammy goodness. Here's to hopin that Carey takes good care of Sam. I thought that Fabian got a pretty good handle of him, once Cable left X-Force for those issues.

[riotgear]

It says Graphic Novel #5. Wasn't #4 the first appearance of the New Mutants? Probably just a typo.

[The Lucky One]

It says Graphic Novel #5. Wasn't #4 the first appearance of the New Mutants? Probably just a typo.

Yeah, they were #4. God Loves, Man Kills was #5, I think.

-D

[Beast]

Well, I'm sure more focus would have went to Cannoball, had he not been snatched away. In fact, CC seemed to enjoy using him quite a bit once he got him back. :)

[Mariah]

Well, I'm sure more focus would have went to Cannoball, had he not been snatched away. In fact, CC seemed to enjoy using him quite a bit once he got him back. :)
He usually does, but something always seems to happen to him.

[Beast]

He usually does, but something always seems to happen to him.
Same with Beast. I really wish CC would get to use him for once.

[Indigo Al]

Luckily, most of the stories were actually new content for me, apart from the graphic novel and issue no. 3 (Who's Scaring Stevie). I didn't start reading NM's regularly until the Amahl Farouk storyline.

Who knew Team America didn't start out as puppets?? :D

I loved it and hope they put out they collect the rest of Claremont's run on the title.

[Mariah]

Luckily, most of the stories were actually new content for me, apart from the graphic novel and issue no. 3 (Who's Scaring Stevie). I didn't start reading NM's regularly until the Amahl Farouk storyline.

Who knew Team America didn't start out as puppets?? :D

I loved it and hope they put out they collect the rest of Claremont's run on the title.
For sure, cause the title really started to shine after these issues.

[tangentman]

I bought a few NM back issues over the weekend and enjoyed re-reading the stories which reminded me why I loved that series in the first place! I don't remember the issue numbers off-hand. The stories are: Beyonder murders the New Mutants; Sam struggles with his visit home & relationship w/Lila; the New Mutants attend the Hellfire Club's "Winter Gala" and tensions erupt with the Hellions.

What makes the first story so powerful begins with the kids watching a John Wayne western while Dani's trying to carry on a long-distance call with her mom. The kids make jokes about the "injuns" in the movies, which annoys Dani, but she handles it in stride. Rahne calls the kids out on their insensitivity to Dani. However, Dani's thoughts aren't on that mini-spat, as she begins seeing images of her friends' concepts of Death. She realizes that the visions mean that they'll soon die--as she will die, given her vision of Hela.
Dani panics and rides off on Brightwind, her winged horse, as she ruminates on her mixed Cheyenne/Asgardian heritage.

Sam comes after Dani and apologizes, with the two quickly returning to the mansion. Unfortunately, a tender moment is ruined when a pissed-off Beyonder shows up at the X-Mansion. He's angry over the New Mutants' rejection of his godhood and vows to kill them all. Beginning with Illyana, the Beyonder brutally slaughters the kids in quick succession. Dani is the last New Mutant standing and defiantly faces the Beyonder. Dani charges him on Brightwind and smacks the Beyonder's arm, thereby "counting coup" as her ancestors did in their battles with the whites. The Beyonder disintegrates Dani and then erases the mansion and memories of the kids from reality.

For me, the most powerful story point came not solely from the Beyonder's pointless murders, but Dani's internal crisis over the coming deaths. She desperately wanted to save herself and her friends, but came to realize that she was ultimately powerless over Death. The recollections of her grandfather's story of counting coup nicely sets up Dani's final scene in the issue. Claremont gave us a strong character in Dani, and I seriously doubt that any teen mutant created since could compare with her. I've yet to see as brave, feisty, willful, and proud a teen character as Dani in the X-Books. I remember how shocked I felt when I originally read the story back in '85 or so. I wondered how the kids would possibly come back from that ending, and what would happen with the series if they DIDN'T return.

Excellent story and I strongly back up the recommendations to pick up the original New Mutants series written by Claremont. Feel free to skip Louise Simonson's later issues--you'll find the meat of the series in Claremont's run!

[fishtaco]

Excellent story and I strongly back up the recommendations to pick up the original New Mutants series written by Claremont. Feel free to skip Louise Simonson's later issues--you'll find the meat of the series in Claremont's run!This is what has always puzzled me.

Why do so many people think that Louise's run was bad? I loved it!

[Indigo Al]

This is what has always puzzled me.

Why do so many people think that Louise's run was bad? I loved it!

You know, I used to spit serious venom at her run on the title, but a little distance and maturity has calmed me down.

The problem, to me, was that she just couldn't find a voice for these kids, probably because most of them weren't typical all-american kids. (A lot of people rag on Claremont for his handling of foreign characters and his "unglaublichs" - i commend him for an honest effort at internationalizing/diversifying).

The dialogue was bland and mostly out of character. The plots were pretty dull and uninteresting - Doug's death, the Bird Boy, the Inferno piece, Gossamyr (uggh!). i stopped reading well before the return to Asgard and X-Force.

And of course, what hurt her case most of all wasn't even her doing - it was the atrocious bobblehead figures drawn by Bret Blevins.

And all this is balanced out by Simonson's terrific X-Factor run, where she did a good job with the X-Factor kids (the X-Terminators).

I wonder if this was just an early manifestation of the debate raging over the DCU right now? A lot of people found CC's NM's to have lots of heavyhanded overwrought angst and darkness, not very teenaged-centric (The Beyonder storyline Tangentman mentioned and Illyana's dilemma, for example). Was the Simonson run an attempt to clean out all the "dark and mystic characters" and make it more kid friendly?

[Hi-Fi]

A lot of people rag on Claremont for his handling of foreign characters and his "unglaublichs" - i commend him for an honest effort at internationalizing/diversifying.



Well, he should at least make some research. Brazillians speak portuguese, not spanish. :rolleyes:

[The Lucky One]

Was the Simonson run an attempt to clean out all the "dark and mystic characters" and make it more kid friendly?

If it was, they probably shouldn't have kicked it off by having one of the main characters get shot to death...

-D

[DDM]

I bought a few NM back issues over the weekend and enjoyed re-reading the stories which reminded me why I loved that series in the first place! I don't remember the issue numbers off-hand. The stories are: Beyonder murders the New Mutants; Sam struggles with his visit home & relationship w/Lila; the New Mutants attend the Hellfire Club's "Winter Gala" and tensions erupt with the Hellions.

The New Mutants #36-37 (Beyonder, angry over Illyana's rejection of his power to clease her Darksoul, more than murders the kids, he erases them from existence.) The story's ramafications plays out in The New Mutants #38-40 when Magneto closes the school under the manipulations of Empath at the White Queen's command to make the kids Hellions. Mirage leaves the school in disgust. Only Sunspot & Warlock did not get erased because they were away on Fallen Angels #1-6. The White Queen, cunningly evil, makes the Avengers her pawns to fight Magneto for her. However, both Emma Frost & Magneto help the kids through their psychic trauma. Afterwards, the kids are ambivilant to write the White Queen off as evil (possibly due to her psychic surgery in previous issues).

The New Mutants #42 (Sam/Lila story)

The New Mutants #53-54 (The Hellfire Club story which Claremont planted about Magma being related to Selene, the Black Queen; whereas, the New Mutants vs the Hellions & Hellions win. Magneto is the White King by this time)

[

[Dr Ray Palmer]

The dialogue was bland and mostly out of character. The plots were pretty dull and uninteresting - Doug's death, the Bird Boy, the Inferno piece, Gossamyr (uggh!). i stopped reading well before the return to Asgard and X-Force.

And of course, what hurt her case most of all wasn't even her doing - it was the atrocious bobblehead figures drawn by Bret Blevins.

I agree with all your points here. I really didn't like Louise Simonson's NM run, primarily because I didn't like her dialogue. But then I've always had that problem with her writing -- her dialogue has never clicked with me. Back in those days -- and on her X-Factor run, too -- she always seemed to be firmly in the "Tell, don't show" school of dialogue, in which most of the things the characters say don't do anything other than narrate what's happening in the story. (Of course, part of that may have been that her stories were frequently accompanied by poor art that made it difficult to tell what was going on). I think it was a particularly rough adjustment coming after Chris Claremont, whose dialogue may be full of tics and distracting Claremontisms (less so in those days than today), but at least he tried to give a vivid voice to each of the characters. I know one of the complaints people often have about Claremont's dialogue is that his characters are constantly introducing themselves and explaining what their powers are, but with Louise Simonson it was always more like the character walks through a door while saying "And now I'm walking through this door," which struck me as much worse.

I also agree that her plots on NM tended to be somewhere between "OK-ish" and "bleah." Bird Brain, Gossamyr, whatever, who cares. But yeah, I think it was Bret Blevins' art that made me finally drop the book, which was painful, because during Chris Claremont's run it was probably my 2nd favorite book, and I really loved the characters, but by the time Gossamyr etc. happened I felt they weren't the characters I cared about any more.

It's a shame, because I think Louise Simonson is the best editor the X-books have ever had.

[Dr Ray Palmer]

Well, he should at least make some research. Brazillians speak portuguese, not spanish.

What, you didn't know the da Costas are from that neighborhood in Rio where everybody speaks Spanish? ;)

Yeah, that always drove me crazy, and even more so when I go back and re-read the old stuff now. Every time Sunspot calls somebody "hombre" (which is about 3 times per issue) or says "Dios mio!" I cringe. Of course, Chris Claremont (who I love, but this bugs me about him) has also had Brazilians and Spaniards exclaiming in Latin before, which is even more silly.

[tangentman]

I wonder if this was just an early manifestation of the debate raging over the DCU right now? A lot of people found CC's NM's to have lots of heavyhanded overwrought angst and darkness, not very teenaged-centric (The Beyonder storyline Tangentman mentioned and Illyana's dilemma, for example). Was the Simonson run an attempt to clean out all the "dark and mystic characters" and make it more kid friendly?

I can't disagree enough with your characterization of Claremont's run! Claremont showed the New Mutants being kids--they struggled with the feelings teens faced (growing up, new love, being away from home, insecurity, beginning high school, etc), had sleep-over parties, went to rock concerts, shopped, watched movies, read, dated, made friends from the local community and Mass. Academy. I can't recall ever seeing the kids doing "normal teenage stuff" in Simonson's run. They were too busy grieving the late Doug, getting in fight after fight, running away from school, picking fights with Freedom Force, going off into space. Claremont built teenage lives for his cast--they had friends (Diana the townie, Catseye, James Proudstar, Manoli Wetherell), boyfriends/girlfriends (Larry Bodine for Kitty, Lila Cheney), interests.

Louise Simonson tore away those things from the kids' foundation. First, Doug was murdered. The angst multiplied twenty-fold during Louise's run--I honestly can't remember a time in her stories when the kids were happy or just being teenagers! We also lost Lila during that abyssmal Gossamyr story and Illyana was de-aged to childhood. I consider Louise responsible for killing off the New Mutants and paving the way for Liefeld's excesses.

[Beast]

Sounds awful like what happened with New X-Men recently. :(

[tangentman]

Sounds awful like what happened with New X-Men recently. :(

I posted my thoughts on THOSE developments in the NX thread. Ugh, I'm disgusted by the new direction being taken. I'm so glad I only read that title in the comic shop. No money lost for that amateur writer's fest.

[Mariah]

I can't disagree enough with your characterization of Claremont's run! Claremont showed the New Mutants being kids--they struggled with the feelings teens faced (growing up, new love, being away from home, insecurity, beginning high school, etc), had sleep-over parties, went to rock concerts, shopped, watched movies, read, dated, made friends from the local community and Mass. Academy. I can't recall ever seeing the kids doing "normal teenage stuff" in Simonson's run. They were too busy grieving the late Doug, getting in fight after fight, running away from school, picking fights with Freedom Force, going off into space. Claremont built teenage lives for his cast--they had friends (Diana the townie, Catseye, James Proudstar, Manoli Wetherell), boyfriends/girlfriends (Larry Bodine for Kitty, Lila Cheney), interests.

Louise Simonson tore away those things from the kids' foundation. First, Doug was murdered. The angst multiplied twenty-fold during Louise's run--I honestly can't remember a time in her stories when the kids were happy or just being teenagers! We also lost Lila during that abyssmal Gossamyr story and Illyana was de-aged to childhood. I consider Louise responsible for killing off the New Mutants and paving the way for Liefeld's excesses.
She just couldn't get a handle on the kids. I mean, I have every single one of CC's New Mutants, but not so much of Louise's. They seemed to lose everything that he put into them, and made them regress to 12 year olds. Then, getting rid of Dani and Doug and Illyana for the X-Terminators really sucked big time. Oh, and the art was really poor too :p But seriously, even if the art would have sucked with CC's, the stories we're just better. Although, to be fair, I loved Simonson's X-Factor, esp. with Walt on art.

[Indigo Al]

I can't disagree enough with your characterization of Claremont's run!

to clarify: that's not how I see Claremont's run - I have heard that sentiment expressed before - especially in some of the pro-Simonson letters that were printed in the letters page.

Although, to be fair, I loved Simonson's X-Factor, esp. with Walt on art.

She did a good job on the title - she had a flair for the melodramatic love triangles of Scott and Jean, and where she just couldn't get a handle on the New Mutants, she made the X-Factor kids shine.

[rilokyle]

A I the only one who like Bret Blevins's art? It was definately quirky and cartoonish, but I dunno, something about it appealed to me. I thought he drew really expressive faces.

[Marty4Magik]

A I the only one who like Bret Blevins's art? It was definately quirky and cartoonish, but I dunno, something about it appealed to me. I thought he drew really expressive faces.
I must admit it had...something.

I just didn't like how he made the girls of the team look like 10 year olds with boobies. It didn't fit the title IMO.

[The Lucky One]

I'm really not a good judge of artistic merit at all, but I enjoyed Blevins' art as sort of a "New Mutants: The Animated Series" thing. I don't mind the cartoony element, in fact it was kind of refreshing, and I've always thought that it would be awesome if the New Mutants were popular enough to ever star in an animated series with character models based on those. (Sadly, they aren't, but a guy can dream.)

-D