The Essential Wonder Woman

[Sean Whitmore]

This has to do with the Wonder Woman movie, but it's more about the source material, so I posted here rather than the movie forum.

I've always thought that, if you didn't like the status quo of the Wonder Woman books, just wait ten issues and it would change completely. And a result, I've never felt there was much about WW that was a "necessary" part of her world.

Superman, on the other hand, has trappings to his character and stories that are, in a way, non-negotiable. I don't mean subjective, quibbling stuff like "he came to Earth as a baby, not a fetus", or "he has to be able to move planets" or "Luthor is a criminal, not a businessman". I mean, there are things that 99.9% of fans will agree HAVE to be there. Metropolis. The Daily Planet. Lois, and to a lesser extent Jimmy and Perry.

Batman's the same way. Gotham. Alfred. Wayne Manor. Gordon. The cave. That's it, end of discussion, you ain't leaving ANY of those things out and still claiming you're true to the source material. Not all of those elements were there from the beginning, but they're here to stay now.

Does Wonder Woman have anything like that, really? Is there anything about her that "has" to be included in any good adaptation? Not just a movie; this question could just as easily lend itself to an Ultimate Wonder Woman type of book.

Can she fly or does she have an invisible plane? Does she have to have a secret identity? Does she operate out of Boston or Gateway City...could it just as easily be Boise, Idaho? Does she have any necessary supporting cast? Mindy Meyers? Helen and Cassie Sansmark? Vanessa Kapatellis? Steve Trevor - as an old man or a suitor?

All I can think of are four things: She comes from Themyscira, her mother is Hippolyta, she has bullet-deflecting bracelets, and she has a golden lasso. As far as I can tell, every other aspect about her is negotiable.

Thoughts?


SEAN

[Damo]

Princess. Amazon. Lasso of truth. Bullet-deflecting-bracelets. Ambassador to the rest of the world. Fights Cheetah.

She was an outspoken feminist before Wertham, and that fell to the wayside for a long while, but I'd say it's essential to her as well. I'd call the unfortunate non-feminist period an aberration, like Azrael taking over for Batman.

There's some stuff that you could leave out and claim to be true to the source material... but if you do, you're not being true to how her creators intended her to be, and how she was written for the first 46 or so years of her run.

She comes from a technologically superior society that's progressed beyond ours because it long ago eliminated prejudice and war - she came to the "Man's World" because she pities how backward we all are. Steve Trevor is her crimefighting partner and romantic interest. The gods talk to her people, and she gets her powers from them.

And, yeah, that's basically it. =(
Not a strong a mythology as Bats or Supes, and I'm guessing that's partly because her book wasn't a sought-after gig like theirs was.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

- Magical nature
- Strong, fast, flies, talks to animals, immortal
- amazon warrior princess and themyscirian ambassador
- bracelets, tiara and lasso
- Truth above all else
- fights Mars, God of War and war-mongering world leaders (I hate Cheetah)

[kossori]

The mythological aspects are what keep me interested. It's something that's unique to her character.
The only other major superhero that has that connection is Marvel's Thor.

And you have to establish that her uniform is based on the American flag (which may be hard to do unless they set it during WW II). And she has to have a magical lasso. And the bracelets representing her freedom.

[tangentman]

Keep the "stranger in a strange land" angle by playing up Diana's origins on Paradise Island vs. her early days in "Patriarch's World". What she sees and hears in the modern world will fascinate, confuse, and repel Diana at different turns! The key to WW's success in her mission stands on her ability to be accessible to the people she's trying to help. I think this aspect of Wonder Woman's history will be very important to what is considered "important" to her mythos.

The paradox of "Peace-Lover" and "Warrior" is a central theme to the character. Diana will go out of her way to reason with an enemy, but she also isn't afraid to knock sense into his head when talking fails. This part of her character confuses people to this day--as well it should!

Wonder Woman's greatest powers lie in her ability to make people see the truth, her compassion, and ability to sway people to change the errors of their ways. In the earliest years of both Moulton and Perez' runs, they emphasized Diana's efforts to rehabilitate criminals, not merely pound their heads and lock them away.

[shyguy]

The paradox of "Peace-Lover" and "Warrior" is a central theme to the character. Diana will go out of her way to reason with an enemy, but she also isn't afraid to knock sense into his head when talking fails. This part of her character confuses people to this day--as well it should!

I've never understood why this confuses people or why people even think it's a paradox. Diana just extolls the virtues of peace - she never says that every single problem can be solved through pacifism. Her beliefs in that respect aren't really any different from any other hero's - Spider-Man wishes that people would stop fighting and just get along, too, but that's not going to stop him from giving Vulture a sock in the jaw.

Wonder Woman tries to encourage peace when she's off-duty, but I don't see how this conflicts with her bopping Dr. Psycho on the head when he's making people have violent rape-hallucinations or whatever.

Anyway, I think the question is kind of hard to answer. The only reason Superman fans can't conceive of Superman without his usual trappings is because someone didn't come along and gut him of a lot of what made him unique (what Byrne did isn't even close to what Perez did).

Plus, you'll get a way different answer from hardcore Wondy fans than you will the general public. From non-Wondy fans you'll hear that the invisible plane and Steve Trevor are essential (which I agree with), but fans of the Perez Reboot will see them as not that important and might want things like the Kapatelis family (bleh) in there. It's kind of like asking what's essential in a Green Lantern movie. Hardly anything, because there are so many ways the story has been done.

[Sean Whitmore]

Anyway, I think the question is kind of hard to answer. The only reason Superman fans can't conceive of Superman without his usual trappings is because someone didn't come along and gut him of a lot of what made him unique (what Byrne did isn't even close to what Perez did).


Yeah, that's why I thought it was worth exploring. Nobody's had their past wiped out and rebuilt from the ground up like Wonder Woman (mmmmmmmmaybe Aquaman). Superman and Batman basically stayed the same as far as the important things go, just considerably more down to earth. Like you said, Byrne never did away with the Clark Kent identity and made Lois an old woman who saved Superman's father from dying years ago.



It's kind of like asking what's essential in a Green Lantern movie. Hardly anything, because there are so many ways the story has been done.


Even GL has more essentials than WW (assuming we're talking about Hal). Carol, Ferris Aircraft, Pieface, reputation as a hotshot pilot and ladies man, and the Guardians. Guy and John are forever second bananas, and Kyle is still too new to have any sacred cows.


SEAN

[Ultraman Max]

The made from clay and having her powers (or being given her powers in the case of the old orgin) from around the time of her birth are pretty essential to the character as well I would say.

[Damo]

Anyway, I think the question is kind of hard to answer. The only reason Superman fans can't conceive of Superman without his usual trappings is because someone didn't come along and gut him of a lot of what made him unique (what Byrne did isn't even close to what Perez did).

You hit the nail on the head there. It may not have been the complete 180degree shift we Green Arrow fans got (the Liberal voice of the DCU now tortures and executes bad guys?), but Perez' retcon definitely made my eyebrows shoot up. There was some good stuff there, but I think he threw out the baby with the bathwater. I'll always love Perez, but I admit I smile every time something gets changed back.



Plus, you'll get a way different answer from hardcore Wondy fans than you will the general public. From non-Wondy fans you'll hear that the invisible plane and Steve Trevor are essential (which I agree with), but fans of the Perez Reboot will see them as not that important and might want things like the Kapatelis family (bleh) in there.
The Kapatelis family essential? Wow. It would have to take a hardcore Perez fan to make that argument.

[Ender]

I was just reading in the Wonder Woman logo thread about WW not being done right.

To you how is Wonder Woman done right?

[The Shadow]

George Perez's version is, IMO, the best. It brought the Greek gods back, had some great villains and was a lot of fun.

The Rucka stuff was really well done as well... he started slowly, but all the subplots had major payoffs and he retained the Greek gods.

I also think Wonder Woman is done right when Adam Hughes is doing the covers!

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Definitelly Perez´Wonder Woman.

Wish he had taken that golden oportunity to retcon the Babewatch suimsuit and make it more Xena-like, though.....

Visually, I once saw a Travis Charest doodle of Diana that didn´t look bad at all.

[JeffreyWKramer]

I was just reading in the Wonder Woman logo thread about WW not being done right.

To you how is Wonder Woman done right?


I still think by far the best version of Wonder Woman was the original one - the stories published in the golden age, written by William Marston and drawn by HG Peter. There have been some good Wonder Woman stories since then, but a lot more bad ones, and the character has never been as distinctive or as interesting as in the earliest stories.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

IMHO, Marston´s stories were all about bondage and new ways to tie WW down and make her submissive. :cool:

[The Shadow]

Wish he had taken that golden oportunity to retcon the Babewatch suimsuit and make it more Xena-like, though
I think I'm about the ONLY one that likes the costume and hope they keep it! ;)

[The Shadow]

IMHO, Marston´s stories were all about bondage and new ways to tie WW down and make her submissive. :cool:
I gotta agree with that.

Though I think the idea was to show a strong woman... I think it failed... at least by today's standards.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I gotta agree with that.

Though I think the idea was to show a strong woman... I think it failed... at least by today's standards.


IIRC, Marston believed that women won by ways of submission.
By being tied up and subdued, Wonder Woman made her way into a man´s heart who then realised he couldn´t live without her and was thus defeated.

Or something like that.

[JeffreyWKramer]

IMHO, Marston´s stories were all about bondage and new ways to tie WW down and make her submissive. :cool:

No, not at all. Keep in mind, Wonder Woman always found ways out of that kind of situation, or managed to work out a win despite being put at such a disadvantage. His stories were actually about feminine strength, in various forms.

Now, those stories did also include lots of bondage, and some lesbian and kinky subtext, but that's all good, too.

[JeffreyWKramer]

IIRC, Marston believed that women won by ways of submission.
By being tied up and subdued, Wonder Woman made her way into a man´s heart who then realised he couldn´t live without her and was thus defeated.

Or something like that.

Looks to me like you need to go read some more of the golden age stories.

[estee]

I think Rucka had the perfect balance with Diana....she was a warrior, dipolmat, and hero. And threw enough of the Greek Gods in to make things colourful.

I just loved the episode in the White House where Diana and her Amazon sisters were discussing the American blockade of Paradise Island. The President was trying to weasel some cencensions out of them, but the women wouldn't budge, it had a real world feel to it.

[Ontir]

Go back to the basics. She grew up in a paradise, outside of the world of men. Then, she rescued Steve Trevor, and fell for him. Returning him to his world, she remains, an exile from paradise, working to make this strange world more like the paradise she left for love.

The Amazons, having had 2,000+ years, have developed technology in advance of our own world, as well as clinging to the traditional training of their former warrior ways, making Diana the pinnacle of physical and intellectual development.

In this new world, she finds herself at odds with power brokers, some mortal, and others surprisingly connected the the Gods of the society she left behind.

[Captain Jim]

Tough question. As much as I enjoyed Perez's stories, I can't say I really liked all of his changes.

I liked the WW who was a founding member of the JLA, had Diana Prince as a secret ID and Steve Trevor as a boyfriend, who flew in the invisible plane and glided on air currents (please don't start that argument again!). The military setting was nice too.

John Byrne did some nice stuff also. (No, I'm serious.)

[Deus ex Chris]

Greg Rucka, period. No one touches his Diana, imo.

[Damo]

Rucka Rucka Rucka. He made Wonder Woman someone I cared about again, the warrior, the hero, the diplomat, she could wear all those faces. And he gave her a supporting cast I actually gave a fiddler's fart about (Perez, I love you man, but yeesh that supporting cast was terrible). And Rucka restored Paradise Island to, well, Paradise Island. Tough as nails women warriors, peaceful, technologically advanced, with lots of neat toys. Bootiful.

I loved the scene with the Amazons at the white house. Yes, they would love to share their cancer-curing purple ray technology with the rest of the world. Thing is, it has incredibly dangerous weapon applications, and could leave the world in ruins in the wrong hands. And you'll excuse them for thinking we might be the wrong hands, what with the gun-covered American battleships currently surrounding Paradise Island.

Marston was weird. He believed in female superiority, and thought that in a couple of decades the world would be ruled by women (look, things are a little behind schedule, I know...). He put Wonder Woman in bondage a lot, saying you couldn't have a character that represents "women slipping out of their bondage" without actually putting them in bondage to begin with. Um. Kay.

Oh, and he was into bondage. And, apparently, was the submissive one in his relationship with his two wives.

Yes, he was into polygamy too.

*Coughs.*

[DracoMalfoy]

Agreed. No one can touch Rucka. Rucka's Wonder Woman is THE Wonder Woman. Incredibly well-spoken, incredibly intelligent and bizarre yet beautiful mix of warriorism, pacifism and heroism. He made WW into a very interesting character who kept you guessing: Who IS WW? And Rucka was right. You can't define WW in one sentence. Just like you can't define a real woman in one sentence.

Regardless what people think of her killing Lord, you have to give her creds for stepping up to the plate and taking responsibility for actions. Unlike some other heroes *coughHalJordancough*

[jeanpaulB.]

Nope. Perez Set The Ground Work, And Molded The Characters. Ruka Could Have Never Worked The Characters Like He Did Without Perez Setting The Standard. The Well Of Souls, The Sotry Of The Lonesome Queen Giving Life Through Clay! That Is How Perez Created A Lore. L O R E . That Is Why I Am Glad Whedon Is Doing The Movie. He Knows About Lore And How To Make People Care For A Character. He Has That In Common With Perez. Couple That With His Outstanding Art,,omagawd,,,george Is Da Man.

[DracoMalfoy]

Perez certainly provided the mold. But Rucka perfected the artwork into perfection

[onenatv]

Perez certainly provided the mold. But Rucka perfected the artwork into perfection
Everything you said. :)

[stealthwise]

I still think by far the best version of Wonder Woman was the original one - the stories published in the golden age, written by William Marston and drawn by HG Peter. There have been some good Wonder Woman stories since then, but a lot more bad ones, and the character has never been as distinctive or as interesting as in the earliest stories.

Hehe, if that's the case, then I have no idea why Wonder Woman has survived as a character all of these years. Seriously, if the character peaked more than 60 years ago... then why is she still around today? There must be a reason.

[Agentum]

WW v2 Showcase for me.

[Stanlos]

Greg Rucka, period. No one touches his Diana, imo.

Agreed! If there is an afterlife, I am sure Marston was doing a happy dance on Rucka's handling of the Character.

It was brilliant.

[Ms. M]

It is interesting that for such a big character, Wonder Woman has so few essential elements and characters associated with her. Besides Hippolyta (who even then is only essential for WW's origin), is there any supporting character who has been a "must" for inclusion in her comic?

George Perez bears a lot of the blame for this, as good as his work was, but so do a lot of the authors on her title. Compared to Batman and even Superman, the other "big three" DC characters, the lack of consistency with her character and supporting cast has been sort of appalling.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Perez did introduce a few interesting characters, but he should never have eliminated Steve Trevor as a romantic interest.