Sometimes I really hate the X-books.

[Mothmonsterman]

This whole big cosmic event involving all the major players in the MU cosmic scene, and the Shi'ar can't be included because Brubaker wants them for a retarded X-Men story. So they get to miss out on an event which seems to be dead set on giving really cool moments of respect to every character involved, and in exchange they get to be jobbed out to show how amazing the third Summers brother is. Great trade-off. No, I'd much rather see them get used as cannon fodder for the X-Men once again instead of getting to see them shown some respect in a story befitting of the MU's top space empire. Because Marvel does space operas involving all the obscure cosmic players all the time, but X-Men storyarcs only come around once in a blue moon. Really. Thanks a bunch, Ed.

[Siddon]

Blame the mutants, its always the mutants fault, why can't we live in an internet world where we aren't hated and feared?

Is it always Wolverines fault that Nova can't keep a series go?

Was it Emma Frost who killed the Captain Marvel series?

Did Gambit's overwelming popularity drown out the throngs of Silver Surfer fans?

[The Fury]

Did Gambit's overwelming popularity drown out the throngs of Silver Surfer fans?
Gambit's popular?


btw, I agree that it sucks that the Shi'Ar is not in this...well, or at least Gladiator.

[Mothmonsterman]

Blame the mutants, its always the mutants fault, why can't we live in an internet world where we aren't hated and feared?

Is it always Wolverines fault that Nova can't keep a series go?

Was it Emma Frost who killed the Captain Marvel series?

Did Gambit's overwelming popularity drown out the throngs of Silver Surfer fans?

What in the hell does that have to do with anything?

[Meta 05]

the only thing that drives me insane when it comes to the X-men is the following.

usual convo with someone i end up speaking to about comics

"oh you read comics""

OTHER PERSON

"yeah X-men"

I really can't stand X-zombies,i prefer Marvel to dc in most cases but i am sure over the years x-men over shadows alot of great stuff getting published.Someone who only reads x-men reminds me of the kids in elementary school who bought the sports jacket from starter of the most popular team,there is really no thought in the decision it was made with little knowledge of other teams an players out there it was just being a slave to media an liking the first thing you see.

I read the x-books , all thou there getting rather boring .How long has it been since they have had a major event not involving Sentinals, Apoc, or something not directly dealing with the humans hate mutants thing.

I like to read about superheros that do things, the x-men simply sit in a mansion an whine about being mutants.Besides wolverine there a bunch of one trick ponies as far as powers go,makes them pretty boring compared to the avengers.\

To sum it all up

Marvels X books is basically a superhero soap opera, that will always have a loyal fan base because of the

MUTANT / GAY metaphor alot of closet case teenagers think they can relate to so there for will always buy the x-books before anything else.

[Crash-Man]

the only thing that drives me insane when it comes to the X-men is the following.

usual convo with someone i end up speaking to about comics

"oh you read comics""

OTHER PERSON

"yeah X-men"

I really can't stand X-zombies,i prefer Marvel to dc in most cases but i am sure over the years x-men over shadows alot of great stuff getting published.Someone who only reads x-men reminds me of the kids in elementary school who bought the sports jacket from starter of the most popular team,there is really no thought in the decision it was made with little knowledge of other teams an players out there it was just being a slave to media an liking the first thing you see.



I agree a lot with this part of your post.

Especially that part about the distinction between comic fans and X-Fans.

[Meta 05]

I just call it like i see it. X-men or any book with an X on it is not my first priority in my monthly buys.There our a great deal of things i favor over it, if my budget suffers the x-books probably go first, there stagnant an nothing of worth usually happens anyway.

Avengers an Batfamily titles you usually our my first priority.There both great sets that acctually have to follow because they have intricate plot lines you will lose track of if you miss a month or so of them.

[Zombienorthstar]

I think alot of people who read X-Men do so because its what they started off on. When i was 8 i used to read my uncles comic books and X-men were easily the most accesible. So i read alot of the X-books and still do.

However i have let myself branch out though usually not outside Marvel itself (i find the huge contiuity with DC intimidating whereas with Marvel alot of its second nature now) When i reached my teens i discovered Alan Moore and possibly my only DC main universe buy Mark Waids run on JLA. Alot of that run was hard to hang on to without prior continuity knowledge.

I agree that the Shiar should be included in a big cosmic event...and i feel that the Shiars X-Men run in could have waited. Or they could still have occured at the same time. The Shiar empire includes billions of aliens....much more than humans. is it too unreasonable for different groups to have dealt with both. Say Lilandra kickign the X-Men's kiester with Deathbird and Gladiator showing up in the cosmic event?

[Meta 05]

I think alot of people who read X-Men do so because its what they started off on. When i was 8 i used to read my uncles comic books and X-men were easily the most accesible. So i read alot of the X-books and still do.

However i have let myself branch out though usually not outside Marvel itself (i find the huge contiuity with DC intimidating whereas with Marvel alot of its second nature now) When i reached my teens i discovered Alan Moore and possibly my only DC main universe buy Mark Waids run on JLA. Alot of that run was hard to hang on to without prior continuity knowledge.

I agree that the Shiar should be included in a big cosmic event...and i feel that the Shiars X-Men run in could have waited. Or they could still have occured at the same time. The Shiar empire includes billions of aliens....much more than humans. is it too unreasonable for different groups to have dealt with both. Say Lilandra kickign the X-Men's kiester with Deathbird and Gladiator showing up in the cosmic event?



I feel the same way with DC, I can read certain isolated series but most of the DCU is just to big an out of touch, marvel just feels more down to earth an the chars feel more human.

DCs love of mixing corny space opera with magic just rubs me the wrong way usually.


I like how marvel is keeping its cosmic stuff seperated from its other characters.I think when you do things on a cosmic level with chars that powerful it starts losing the fun factor.The chars just get to larger then life to have conflicts that can stop them.

[Mothmonsterman]

I agree that the Shiar should be included in a big cosmic event...and i feel that the Shiars X-Men run in could have waited. Or they could still have occured at the same time. The Shiar empire includes billions of aliens....much more than humans. is it too unreasonable for different groups to have dealt with both. Say Lilandra kickign the X-Men's kiester with Deathbird and Gladiator showing up in the cosmic event?

Good point.

It's like a writer asking to use Moon Night in a story and another writer going, "Nope, sorry, but I'm using Earth's heroes right now." All of them? "Yes, all of them."

The thing about that is it makes me think Brubaker's going to end up doing something like destroying the entire Shi'ar empire, and that's why nobody else is allowed to use them.

[tjarvis]

Good point.

It's like a writer asking to use Moon Night in a story and another writer going, "Nope, sorry, but I'm using Earth's heroes right now." All of them? "Yes, all of them."

The thing about that is it makes me think Brubaker's going to end up doing something like destroying the entire Shi'ar empire, and that's why nobody else is allowed to use them.

Which could lead to another interesting storyline down the road. If The Shi'ar do get messed up in Uncanny, and the events of Annihilation leave the Kree and Skrull empires in tatters with no Xandarian police force around, the universe is going to get majorly destablized and violent after the events of Annihilation are over.

[isaac a person]

Uncanny X-Men is what got me hooked on superhero comics, but now I only buy X-books when creators I like are on them (Morrison's New X-Men, Milligan & Allred's X-Force & X-Statix). I am looking forward to Brubaker's run on Uncanny and Carey's on Ajcetiveless.

That said, I feel your pain. I am often annoyed by the way the X-books are walled off from the rest of the Marvel U. It's not much of a shared universe if a whole group of characters only gets to appear in books that start with an X. I wasn't around for the Beast/Avengers days or the Iceman/Angel/Champions run, but I'd like to see more of that.

The universe is a big place. That ol' annihilation wave can only annihilate so much of it. The Shi'ar get out of it by dint of geography. Looks like they've got it coming in Uncanny. At the emrald city comicon last week, Brubaker said his X-Men in space arc was titled "The Fall of the Shi'ar Empire" or something to that effect. So the Shi'ar are going to be having a tough time of it this summer without the annihilation wave to worry about ;)

[Lord S]

What I hate is how X-writers seem to have a free hand in Marvel, they can use all the cosmic characters they want in their cosmic stories, (ie. X-Men: Forever), but not the other way around.

[Jake V]

What I hate is how X-writers seem to have a free hand in Marvel, they can use all the cosmic characters they want in their cosmic stories, (ie. X-Men: Forever), but not the other way around.
X-books tend to sell more than other books, so they are usually given free reign because they are more monetarily valuable than other books.

[Mothmonsterman]

The universe is a big place. That ol' annihilation wave can only annihilate so much of it. The Shi'ar get out of it by dint of geography.

Yeah, that's the plot excuse they came up with. The actual reason they "get out of it" is that Brubaker doesn't want anybody else playing in his sandbox.

Looks like they've got it coming in Uncanny.

Here's the thing, though. So far, every single page I've seen of Annihilation previews has shown me that the writers are going out of their way to make really cool moments for every single character involved, so all of the underused characters are getting their share of respect.

Compare this to what the Shi'ar have got coming in Uncanny, which promises to be a role as cannon fodder to show off how powerful and amazing and awesome and spectacular and wonderful the new Summers brother is. Because we wouldn't want to let down the six people who have been insisting on his existence ever since Apocalypse said a typo like twenty years ago.

Quite frankly, I would much, much, much, much, much, much rather see the Shi'ar in their element fending off a cosmic menace next to the rest of the Marvel cosmos and getting mucho respect along the way than see them play the role of X-Men Fodder for the fifth or sixth time.

At the emrald city comicon last week, Brubaker said his X-Men in space arc was titled "The Fall of the Shi'ar Empire" or something to that effect. So the Shi'ar are going to be having a tough time of it this summer without the annihilation wave to worry about ;)

Right. So basically it's, "ZOMG THIS NEW CHARECTER I CREATID IS SO POWERFOL HE CAN DISTROY THE SHI'AR I CAN'T WATE TILL WOLVERINE BEETS HIM UP SO BAD ITS GOWNG TO BE AWSEM!!!" Be still, my heart.

[Mothmonsterman]

X-books tend to sell more than other books, so they are usually given free reign because they are more monetarily valuable than other books.

That is the opposite of what would make sense, though. If the mutants are a draw, then the flow of characters should be the other way around. Having poorly selling characters appear in an X-book won't boost the X-book's sales, but having mutants in a poorly seeling book might boost the book's sales.

[Jake V]

That is the opposite of what would make sense, though. If the mutants are a draw, then the flow of characters should be the other way around. Having poorly selling characters appear in an X-book won't boost the X-book's sales, but having mutants in a poorly seeling book might boost the book's sales.
I should have said that I meant the creators. Brubaker is a bigger draw than giffen, so its in marvel's best interest to let him do the story he wants to.

[Jake V]

Compare this to what the Shi'ar have got coming in Uncanny, which promises to be a role as cannon fodder to show off how powerful and amazing and awesome and spectacular and wonderful the new Summers brother is. Because we wouldn't want to let down the six people who have been insisting on his existence ever since Apocalypse said a typo like twenty years ago.
Sinister said it, and it wasn't a typo.

Right. So basically it's, "ZOMG THIS NEW CHARECTER I CREATID IS SO POWERFOL HE CAN DISTROY THE SHI'AR I CAN'T WATE TILL WOLVERINE BEETS HIM UP SO BAD ITS GOWNG TO BE AWSEM!!!" Be still, my heart.
Wolverine isn't in the upcoming Uncanny run, but don't let that stop you from taking shots at Brubaker.

[Doom Hammer]

Right. So basically it's, "ZOMG THIS NEW CHARECTER I CREATID IS SO POWERFOL HE CAN DISTROY THE SHI'AR I CAN'T WATE TILL WOLVERINE BEETS HIM UP SO BAD ITS GOWNG TO BE AWSEM!!!" Be still, my heart.

Seriously, you're really bitter about this.

Ed Brubaker has done nothing but kick ass on his Marvel projects, particularly Cap and Daredevil. So if he wants the Shi'ar for his upcoming X-stint, I want to see what he does with them, because it will be amazing.

It's cool that you know how his whole run is going to go down, though, before anyone else does. How'd you manage that?

[Lord S]

Another example...when Thanos destroys then recreates the universe, it's not considered canon, (even though it spawns a canon monthly).

When the Pheonix (White Crown) recreates the 'wounded' universe, it's canon.

Just an observation.

[Cowlander]

Another example...when Thanos destroys then recreates the universe, it's not considered canon, (even though it spawns a canon monthly).

When the Pheonix (White Crown) recreates the 'wounded' universe, it's canon.

Just an observation.
When was a Thanos event not considered canon? If youre talking about MU: the end, thats because NONE of the end books are considered canon.

[Expletive Deleted]

Another example...when Thanos destroys then recreates the universe, it's not considered canon, (even though it spawns a canon monthly).

When the Pheonix (White Crown) recreates the 'wounded' universe, it's canon.Did Phoenix recreate the universe? I was under the impression that she just did some hypertime mojo and prevented the bad future from ever happening.

Regardless, it was a Morrison story, so I can't imagine it'll stay canon very much longer.

[Mothmonsterman]

Ed Brubaker has done nothing but kick ass on his Marvel projects, particularly Cap and Daredevil. So if he wants the Shi'ar for his upcoming X-stint, I want to see what he does with them, because it will be amazing.

An analogy in E Minor.

Raymond Chandler has done nothing but kick ass on his screenplay projects, particularly Double Indemnity and Strangers on a Train. So if he wants Star Wars for his upcoming project, I want to see what he does with it, because it will be amazing.

[Expletive Deleted]

I realize that was supposed to illustrate how we shouldn't judge a writer's future projects based on his previous work in another genre, but . . .

Man, I'd really love to see Raymond Chandler's STAR WARS.

[Siddon]

This argument is so stupid, Marvel wants to do a civil war, Brubaker doesn't want to write a Civil War story so he sends the team into space to deal with the aftermath of DG. Marvel wants to make a segmented group of Marvel fans happy so they try and launch this huge expanded storyline.... but they only use characters who aren't in monthly series.

And X-men stories take priority over Silver Surfer/Nova/Thanos stories because the X-men are going to be around next year, the others not so much.

I am sure that if these little mini's do well that the Shi'ar will be in the main series.

If it makes you feel better maybe Marvel should do what they did with Acts of Vengence and just put the Annihilation title on the comic and only deal with it in an abstract format.....

Oh sh@# they actually did that with A:DA and Spider-man and Fantastic Four and what did the fans do.....

bitch and moan

I have actually decided not to pick this series up after reading the junk in this thread. I was on the fence and you guys pushed me over, I am voting with my wallet and my wallet says NO to Annihilation and its entitled and indulged fans.

[Lord S]

When was a Thanos event not considered canon? If youre talking about MU: the end, thats because NONE of the end books are considered canon. Yes...and I was throughly schooled by Andy Schmidt on that just recently. :o

Doesn't take away the the inconsistency factor...in my mind, it'll always be canon.

Did Phoenix recreate the universe? I was under the impression that she just did some hypertime mojo and prevented the bad future from ever happening.

Regardless, it was a Morrison story, so I can't imagine it'll stay canon very much longer. Well according to some really aggressive Phoenix fanboys, she did it atom by atom, under the guidance of the Force, and in the presence of other Phoenix avatars from other realities. Kind of looked that way to me, too.

[BizarroBeachHead]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v611/BizarroSanta/geekchartbig.gif


*note the comic book column

[Zombienorthstar]

Ultimatley though the idea that the Shiar can be destroyed in one fell swoop is ridiculous. Perhaps their monarchy but the entire race....which is a good point too the Shair isnt jus tcompromised of the main race (also known as Aerie) there are thousands of species that have been conquered by the Shiar... For example when Corsair met the other Starjammers on that prison world they were all technically Shiar though comign from a multitude of races. The idea that any one no matter how 'SUPER COOL POWERFUL' they are could destory it in oen arc is ridiculous such a feet would take hudnreds of years.
Also the idea that Shiar are uled out due to geography is ridiculous...isnt the whole point that earth represents the boundaries bettwen the three main empires (Kree, Skrull and Shiar) and therefore anythign throwing down even near earth is near the others.

[Cowlander]

Oh snap, new wallpaper.

Thanks

Tho honestly I'd put those CB fans who only read say independents or other "non mainstream" books and then THINK their somehow superior to other fans as being geekier than someone who only reads X-books. Theirs a differnece between "I only like X-books" and "X-books are BENEATH me and anyone who reads them are stupid sheep who are to be ridiculed"

[Cowlander]

Yes...and I was throughly schooled by Andy Schmidt on that just recently. :o

Doesn't take away the the inconsistency factor...in my mind, it'll always be canon.

Well according to some really aggressive Phoenix fanboys, she did it atom by atom, under the guidance of the Force, and in the presence of other Phoenix avatars from other realities. Kind of looked that way to me, too.
Yeah but even X-men the end isnt in canon, theyve stayed pretty consistant with that.

Now if you wanna ask why was CC allowed to have 3 6part minis for X-men the end instead of everyone else 1 6parter. You could make an argument. I think it would still be misguided, but an argument could be made.

[Expletive Deleted]

Tho honestly I'd put those CB fans who only read say independents or other "non mainstream" books and then THINK their somehow superior to other fans as being geekier than someone who only reads X-books. Theirs a differnece between "I only like X-books" and "X-books are BENEATH me and anyone who reads them are stupid sheep who are to be ridiculed"We're not really talking moral superiority, here.

We're talking geekiness.

Anyone who reads comic books in only one genre (whichever genre that is) is geekier than anyone who doesn't. And anyone who reads comic books involving only one property are geekier still. The chart's spot-on in that respect.

[BizarroBeachHead]

Anyone who reads comic books in only one genre (whichever genre that is) is geekier than anyone who doesn't. And anyone who reads comic books involving only one property are geekier still. The chart's spot-on in that respect.
Precisley.

In regards to the original post, I'm going to side with Doom Hammer on this one(funny, I find myself doing that more and more these days...) and say that Brubaker has grand slammed every single one of his Marvel projects, so I have faith that whatever he wants to do with the Shi'ar would only get bogged down by being in Annihilation. I trust that if something could have been worked out, then something would have been. Much like Silver Surfer, who originaly wasn't going to be a part of the event. Giffen worked it out with J. Staz(who apparently has some Silver Surfer project in the works) so that he could be in the event without muddling Straz's plans. Only with the Shi'ar, obviously it didn't work out.

Personaly, I would prefer Shi'ar to at least be awknolegded a little better instead of just being written out, but them's the breaks.

[Cowlander]

We're not really talking moral superiority, here.

We're talking geekiness.

Anyone who reads comic books in only one genre (whichever genre that is) is geekier than anyone who doesn't. And anyone who reads comic books involving only one property are geekier still. The chart's spot-on in that respect.


I see what youre saying but if you only like one genre or family of books whats wrong with that? I dont see the problem with it, but if you only lke that one genre and then try to justify it by this moral superiority I think thats far more geekier.

if someone only like football(or say specifically Cinncinati football), are they wrong for just finding basketball and soccer and cricket boring. Their all sports right, whats the difference between that and comics.

But if I like FB or cricket exclusively then constantly degrade and insult fans of the other ones how is that not worse. If someone only reads a set of books because thats what they like its a whole world of difference from someone who does that because its stupid not to or the other ones are below them for whatever reason. Exclusion by preference is alot better than exclusion by arrogance.

Like I said I see what youre saying I just think it needs another entry underneath for those who think their morally superior for their choice of book.

[Zombienorthstar]

I agree Cowlander..say someone only bought the X-Men...no other comic book...they are really only a casual reader....how are they MORE geeky than someone who obsessivley collects dozens of comic books from various publischers

I dont think that there is MORE merit in reading non-superhero books some of the best comic books ever are superhero based (Watchmen anyone?)

Ultimatley comic books are always going to be viewed as geeky by the general populace so why should we add snobberey within the community of fans...we get enough of that from other people.

[BizarroBeachHead]

I agree Cowlander..say someone only bought the X-Men...no other comic book...they are really only a casual reader....how are they MORE geeky than someone who obsessivley collects dozens of comic books from various publischers

I dont think that there is MORE merit in reading non-superhero books some of the best comic books ever are superhero based (Watchmen anyone?)

Ultimatley comic books are always going to be viewed as geeky by the general populace so why should we add snobberey within the community of fans...we get enough of that from other people.
I think it's important to understand that in the Legend it says "Consider themselves less geeky than..." which is adressing the air of snobbery that you guys are talking about.

In other words, since I read any and all sorts of comics, I consider myself much less geekier than someone who zealously reads only X-Men books. Why? The idea is that if they only read X-Books, they must be obsesive and ultra "geeky" about it and accept all X-books as great no matter what the true quality, as oposed to the casual comic fan who reads anything as long as it's well written.

I realize that there are plenty of people out there that only read X-books because, hey, thats what they like. Thats why the chart is played for laughs.

[Ullar]

I too hate x-books with the eXception of New Excalibur and X-Factor. I might get the trade of Ed's run but i find this hole Shi'ar thing to be boring.

[onizuka]

Ed Brubaker has done nothing but kick ass on his Marvel projects, particularly Cap and Daredevil. So if he wants the Shi'ar for his upcoming X-stint, I want to see what he does with them, because it will be amazing.
that's right. give brubaker anything he wants dammit. the man is rocking my world with everything he's writing at the moment. although it is a shame we won't see gladiator in annihilation.

[Mothmonsterman]

I still fail to see how it is even remotely logical to jump from "this guy writes really good gritty noir stories" to "let's see what he does with a cosmic space empire!"

[Doom Hammer]

I still fail to see how it is even remotely logical to jump from "this guy writes really good gritty noir stories" to "let's see what he does with a cosmic space empire!"

Cap isn't exactly noir. It's more action and spy-oriented.

Books of Doom is also not noir.

And he's currently writing an X-Men mini, (again, not noir) that incorporates various Shi'ar references and other things relating to X-Men canon.

So, a writer with multiple talents and a background in X-Men writing a story with a space empire associated strongly with the X-Men? Absurd, my good man! :p

Not quite such a large leap.

Also, by locking writers into their little cages and opposing their expansion into other projects, you never know what you're going to miss. "Grant Morrison writing super-heroes? Why, he's a Vertigo writer! His stories are all alternative and convention-defying. He'll never make it writing mainstream super-hero comics!"

[Mothmonsterman]

Also, by locking writers into their little cages and opposing their expansion into other projects, you never know what you're going to miss.

So instead we should give him carte blance to tell other writers what they can and can't write; that way we don't miss anything.

[Doom Hammer]

So instead we should give him carte blance to tell other writers what they can and can't write; that way we don't miss anything.

Heh, I understand your whole argument here, but it's pointless to go on. I like Brubaker, you're bitter over his privelages. It's okay, but I won't agree with you.

We don't even know the time frame here. The Shi'ar could be dead and gone or otherwise occupied because of Brubaker's run right now...the whole Marvel timeline is uneven right now.

[Zombienorthstar]

If were gonna get technical though the Shiar do BELONG to the X-Men in the same way that Galactus BELONGS to the FF. It will always be a more emotionally resonant story if its the Shiar vrs the X-Men because of their history...and to be hoenst what with End of Greys and Cassandra Nova's attack this has been waiting to happen for a while.

[Hawkingbird82]

I think its funny how people look down on those that read X-titles. Well, If it makes you feel better to put people down and think your better than them soley for the fact that they read only X-titles - thats too bad, but I do hope it helps. I have found that when people say they are better than others, its usually a reflection of some missing component in their own life. Something to think about.

You must remember that people buy comic books for diferent things. Some buy it for action, or art, or story, or characters, or any number of other things. If you wanted to read a comic that was like an artistic soap opera with a twist, of course the X-titles would be the perfect choice. And that doesn't make them "more geeky", that just means they followed their particular taste in comics. Also, X-titles deal a lot more with diversity issues (which is a huge issue today) more than any other title, because it is what the books center around. Thats why I read them.

Everyone has a right to read what they want. Everyone has a right to judge other people. Just remember, there is something about you that you don't want others to judge.

This entire conversation could have happened without saying anything bad about X fans. Of course the Shiar should be in Annihilation, if only some of the guard or something. And Yes, the idea of one Summers brother defeating the Empire is insane sounding. But thats the writers not the fans.

PS - its a bit ironic that X-fans are judged as a second class. Kind of fitting.
I read Young Avengers and the Ultimates, but feel free to judge me as an X fan because without the X-men I never would have picked up the other titles.

[Zombienorthstar]

I think its funny how people look down on those that read X-titles. Well, If it makes you feel better to put people down and think your better than them soley for the fact that they read only X-titles - thats too bad, but I do hope it helps. I have found that when people say they are better than others, its usually a reflection of some missing component in their own life. Something to think about.

You must remember that people buy comic books for diferent things. Some buy it for action, or art, or story, or characters, or any number of other things. If you wanted to read a comic that was like an artistic soap opera with a twist, of course the X-titles would be the perfect choice. And that doesn't make them "more geeky", that just means they followed their particular taste in comics. Also, X-titles deal a lot more with diversity issues (which is a huge issue today) more than any other title, because it is what the books center around. Thats why I read them.

Everyone has a right to read what they want. Everyone has a right to judge other people. Just remember, there is something about you that you don't want others to judge.

This entire conversation could have happened without saying anything bad about X fans. Of course the Shiar should be in Annihilation, if only some of the guard or something. And Yes, the idea of one Summers brother defeating the Empire is insane sounding. But thats the writers not the fans.

PS - its a bit ironic that X-fans are judged as a second class. Kind of fitting.
I read Young Avengers and the Ultimates, but feel free to judge me as an X fan because without the X-men I never would have picked up the other titles.


Amen to that i started with X-Men and still read alot of them but i would NEVER have read stuff by Alan Moore, Avengers titles etc if i hadnt started there...i think its a cultural thing really...people like soemthign until it becomes more mainstream and then to be cool you have to ridicule it...its like Harry Potter...ive been reasding those since 1997 (i was 10) at around 1999 it was a cool fringe thign to read then once it got huge everyone started taking pot shots at it....if the X-Men were an indie comic then theyd be all the rage.

[Citizen V]

This whole big cosmic event involving all the major players in the MU cosmic scene, and the Shi'ar can't be included because Brubaker wants them for a retarded X-Men story. So they get to miss out on an event which seems to be dead set on giving really cool moments of respect to every character involved, and in exchange they get to be jobbed out to show how amazing the third Summers brother is. Great trade-off. No, I'd much rather see them get used as cannon fodder for the X-Men once again instead of getting to see them shown some respect in a story befitting of the MU's top space empire. Because Marvel does space operas involving all the obscure cosmic players all the time, but X-Men storyarcs only come around once in a blue moon. Really. Thanks a bunch, Ed.

Do not hate the characters,hate the writers for they are the ones who make the characters do things.Yes,this will be done,just for a single character.You should be angry,the X-Men are not often in these kind of events.But..that`s how writers are these days,hoping to put their mark on the comic instead of good stories. :(

[Jake V]

Do not hate the characters,hate the writers for they are the ones who make the characters do things.Yes,this will be done,just for a single character.You should be angry,the X-Men are not often in these kind of events.But..that`s how writers are these days,hoping to put their mark on the comic instead of good stories. :(
Does anyone have any proof that Giffen or any of the other people on the creative side of Annihilation wanted to use the shi'ar and were denied?

Beyond that, Claremont has been using the Shi'ar currently in Uncanny, so the "blame" for the Shi'ar not being a part of Annihilation hardly falls on Brubaker, hell, he's using part of his run to follow up on shi'ar related plot threads that Claremont established. Even further, the Shi'ar were a part of Vulcan's backstory probably since the character was concieved, it's not like anyone snatched use of the shi'ar out of anyones hands.

Lets try thinking a little bit before you start accusing people of being ego driven.

[Lord S]

PS - its a bit ironic that X-fans are judged as a second class. Kind of fitting. I read Young Avengers and the Ultimates, but feel free to judge me as an X fan because without the X-men I never would have picked up the other titles. The man has a point, ladies and gentlemen...the X-Men have been the gateway to the MU for a lot of us.

It's true that a lot of people do like to take swipes at X-fans, but it's not due to any component missing from their lives, or because of any resentment caused by the astounding success of the X-franchise, but because of the perception that it is untouchable and elite...and the perception that it's writers and editors seem to have considerable political power behind the scenes...and the reality that the stories that have come out of there in recent years (since the late-90s) have been less than stellar. I know this will bring about the question of if the stories are crappy, then why are the sales are so high? For the answer to that you have to look at the demographics. Obviously a lot more young people in their teens and early twenties are buying these books, as opposed to people my age, (30).

With regard to the use of the Shi'ar in 'Annihilation' vs. the third Summers brother story...or whatever it is...we have to look at what makes sense here. Marvel's trying to revitalize the cosmic characters in a huge crossover, and it would have really helped them in their efforts if they could use the most advanced race in the universe. Also someone said that the Shi'ar work best with the X-Men...well if you read 'Operation: Galactic Storm', you'd notice that they work GREAT elsewhere as well. Plus they were a strong force in the FF 'Trial of Reed Richards' issue, and the 'Maximum Security' crossover...so they don't have to, and shouldn't, be limited to just the X-Men. Same goes with the Phoenix.

BTW, I don't badmouth X-fans...just X-fanboys. :p

[Beast]

Considering the current state of the Shi'ar as we last saw them, there wouldn't be much to write about anyway. Remember, Grant Morrison's New X-Men had Cassandra Nova manipulate Lilandra to turn her warships on her own people. In the end the Empire was in ruin, in chaos, and probably too busy dealing with internal matters to have them really play much part in this 'Cosmic Crossover'.

And I for one am almost exclusively an X-Books reader. I like the characters and the theme, and don't really have much interest for any of the various other books being put out. That doesn't make me elite or snobbish, I just prefer to read something that I enjoy and personally resonate with. Nothing wrong with that. Though I do read a few non-X-titles, those that have managed to also gain my interest. There's nothing wrong with liking a specific type of book with certain characters, it's a dedicated passion. It's more snobbish to look down your nose at people who read just one type of book, in my honest opinion.

[Mothmonsterman]

If were gonna get technical though the Shiar do BELONG to the X-Men in the same way that Galactus BELONGS to the FF. It will always be a more emotionally resonant story if its the Shiar vrs the X-Men because of their history...and to be hoenst what with End of Greys and Cassandra Nova's attack this has been waiting to happen for a while.

I can't say that I agree. They started out in an X-Men comic, but X-Men comics have never been their best appearances. They were conceived as little more than throw-away ripoffs of the LOSH to be used as cannon fodder for the X-Men, and X-writers have seen fit to continue using them that way ever since (other than Liliandra, I suppose). But whenever they show up outside X-books, they get treated like real characters and they actually get a bit of respect.

I've liked the Shi'ar for some time and always thought a Shi'ar book played up like Star Wars with superheroes would be really cool. Seeing that Marvel had decided to give a push to their cosmic landscape really got my hopes up, and then I learned that my favorite cosmic concept was getting left out of the push because some damn X-writer felt the time-honored need to shit all over them.

[Kid Kamikaze10]

I see what many of you guys are saying, but this Annihilation situation has brought up a problem that I've been having with Marvel for a long time: The X-titles being isolated with the rest of the Marvel Universe.

As I've said on the X-Books board, for a very long time, the X-titles and it's characters (besides a very special Canadian) have been pretty much isolated with the other Marvel titles.

This has had very negative effects on certain characters, like Jean Grey or even Havok. It seems like many characters in the X-titles are losing their story potential, being caught in the same stories over and over.

My idea is for more X-men to show up on non-X-books. I think it would be cool to see Silver Surfer meet up with Jean and/or Rachel, or for Iceman to team-up with Spiderman, like the T.V show in the 70s. Chamber having a cameo on Runaways was a great example.

Now I'm not saying there should be more crossover with the X-titles, but the X-titles should have more interaction with the rest of the Marvel Universe, and it shouldn't have to be a crossover.

[Mothmonsterman]

Yeah, aside from the occasional universe-wide story like Infinity Gauntlet, you generally wouldn't even be able to tell that X-Men books are in the same universe as other MU titles.

[Beast]

Yeah, aside from the occasional universe-wide story like Infinity Gauntlet, you generally wouldn't even be able to tell that X-Men books are in the same universe as other MU titles.
You can't? Beast showed up in Avengers: Disassembled. That was hardly a universe-wide story. Nick Fury showed up in Astonishing X-Men. The Fantastic Four turned up in Astonishing X-Men. Beast is going to be in The Thing #8 at Ben Grimm's poker party. There's hundreds of examples, just not anything overly major. Just because they don't make sixteen cameos a month, doesn't mean they're not part of the same universe. Just that their mission statement is totally different. Plus, most writers don't like including a lot of cameos, as it makes continuity even harder to keep straight.

[Mothmonsterman]

You can't? Beast showed up in Avengers: Disassembled. That was hardly a universe-wide story. Nick Fury showed up in Astonishing X-Men. The Fantastic Four turned up in Astonishing X-Men. Beast is going to be in The Thing #8 at Ben Grimm's poker party. There's hundreds of examples, just not anything overly major. Just because they don't make sixteen cameos a month, doesn't mean they're not part of the same universe. Just that their mission statement is totally different. Plus, most writers don't like including a lot of cameos, as it makes continuity even harder to keep straight.

Beast was an Avenger. That's not the X-Men showing up in Avengers. It's a mutant showing up because he used to be an Avenger, his X-Men status being completely beside the point.

I would argue that Avengers Beast is written so differently from X-Men Beast as to be barely recognizable as the same character.

EDIT: I just read your signature, which was ironically appropriate given my last comment.

[tjarvis]

Beast was an Avenger. That's not the X-Men showing up in Avengers. It's a mutant showing up because he used to be an Avenger, his X-Men status being completely beside the point.

I would argue that Avengers Beast is written so differently from X-Men Beast as to be barely recognizable as the same character.

EDIT: I just read your signature, which was ironically appropriate given my last comment.

Well if you want the X-Men showing up in the Avengers, how about the Sentry arc they just did where Emma Frost ended up being one of the major characters?

[Jmacq1]

Personally I'm just amused by a couple of the assumptions being made by certain people here:

"OMG the new character is soooo powerful and awesome he can single-handedly destroy the Shi'ar!"

First off, could you please scan or mail everyone here the advance copies of the whole storyline you got? Cause last time I checked, it hadn't been published yet, so you haven't got a clue how the story plays out. Secondly, see the above post on the state of the Shi'ar the last time we saw them. Hardly at the zenith of their power, that. Lemme guess, you stopped reading comics around the time of "Galactic Storm" or something?

"Brubaker didn't want to write a "Civil War" story, so he had the X-Men go into space!"

Hey, guess what other book Brubaker is writing now? It's called "Captain America", and there's no way in hell it's -not- going to be heavily involved in "Civil War". Maybe he didn't want to write -two- heavily "Civil War" themed stories, but insinuating that he's so egomaniacal that he didn't want to play in the big company crossover is just plain ignorant when you look at his title-list.

Just -maybe- Marvel -wanted- most of the X-Men to be off-world for the big crossover. "House of M" and "Decimation" were almost entirely X-themed events. "Civil War" just -might- be designed to put the spotlight on the -rest- of the Marvel Universe for a change (The earthbound Marvel Universe, anyway).

I'm sure none of this will do anything to stop people from acting like Ed Brubaker personally peed in their cornflakes, but if you're going to start throwing out attacks, you should really make sure they're not pretty much baseless to begin with.

[Mothmonsterman]

First off, could you please scan or mail everyone here the advance copies of the whole storyline you got? Cause last time I checked, it hadn't been published yet, so you haven't got a clue how the story plays out.

One hardly needs a crystal ball to put the pieces together.

1) New character getting big push.

2) "The End Of The Shi'ar(!)"

1 + 2 = new character wrecking the Shi'ar to show how awesome he is.

You know, the exact same thing that happened with Cassandra Nova.

If I'm wrong, I'll gladly eat my words. But you know what? I'm not going to be wrong.

Secondly, see the above post on the state of the Shi'ar the last time we saw them. Hardly at the zenith of their power, that.

The Shi'ar Empire spans galaxies, and Cassandra Nova had Liliandra issue an order for their ships to attack one another. The idea that a galaxy-spanning empire would be in ruins because a brief order was given for ships to attack each other is nonsense on its face.

[Zombienorthstar]

I can't say that I agree. They started out in an X-Men comic, but X-Men comics have never been their best appearances. They were conceived as little more than throw-away ripoffs of the LOSH to be used as cannon fodder for the X-Men, and X-writers have seen fit to continue using them that way ever since (other than Liliandra, I suppose). But whenever they show up outside X-books, they get treated like real characters and they actually get a bit of respect.

I've liked the Shi'ar for some time and always thought a Shi'ar book played up like Star Wars with superheroes would be really cool. Seeing that Marvel had decided to give a push to their cosmic landscape really got my hopes up, and then I learned that my favorite cosmic concept was getting left out of the push because some damn X-writer felt the time-honored need to shit all over them.


No but thatey have always been fleeting guest appaerances the X-books itnroduced the Shiar and have taken alot fo time to develop them...to say they have been written badly in all X-books isnt correct there are lots of great examples:
Lifegaurds Shair roots
Xavier/Lilandra relationship
Deathbird/Bishop relationship
Starjammers/Cylops/Shair
Phoenix/Shiar

it goes on...

[Jmacq1]

One hardly needs a crystal ball to put the pieces together.

1) New character getting big push.

2) "The End Of The Shi'ar(!)"

1 + 2 = new character wrecking the Shi'ar to show how awesome he is.

You know, the exact same thing that happened with Cassandra Nova.

If I'm wrong, I'll gladly eat my words. But you know what? I'm not going to be wrong.



The Shi'ar Empire spans galaxies, and Cassandra Nova had Liliandra issue an order for their ships to attack one another. The idea that a galaxy-spanning empire would be in ruins because a brief order was given for ships to attack each other is nonsense on its face.

Let's Review:

"Considering the current state of the Shi'ar as we last saw them, there wouldn't be much to write about anyway. Remember, Grant Morrison's New X-Men had Cassandra Nova manipulate Lilandra to turn her warships on her own people. In the end the Empire was in ruin, in chaos, and probably too busy dealing with internal matters to have them really play much part in this 'Cosmic Crossover'."

Apparently the endstate of her actions was already portrayed. Ruins/Chaos/etc... Just because you're unable to suspend disbelief or accept that "nonsense" happens every single day in a comic-book universe doesn't make it any less of a fact within the universe. Fan-logic doesn't usually translate to the actual page unless the fan is the one writing the books.

Not to mention that the early preview art makes it look a lot more like the X-Men are fighting the Shi'ar, not Vulcan all by his lonesome. Will he play a role? Certainly. Will he be the -only- thing that brings down the Shi'ar? Unlikely. And for all we know, the events in X-Men are going on at the same time as "Annihilation", so hey, guess what? Easy excuse for the Shi'ar not to be involved. Oh, and according to that "universe map" in said "Annihilation" book, the Shi'ar Empire (as it stands now) really only controls -one- galaxy.

And besides, what would they add to "Annihilation" anyway besides another race to get destroyed/whittled down/otherwise screwed over along the way?

[Mothmonsterman]

Let's Review:

"Considering the current state of the Shi'ar as we last saw them, there wouldn't be much to write about anyway. Remember, Grant Morrison's New X-Men had Cassandra Nova manipulate Lilandra to turn her warships on her own people. In the end the Empire was in ruin, in chaos, and probably too busy dealing with internal matters to have them really play much part in this 'Cosmic Crossover'."

Apparently the endstate of her actions was already portrayed. Ruins/Chaos/etc...

So you're lecturing me about not having read that story, even though I did read the story, when your only knowledge about it comes from a paragraph written by somebody else in this very thread? Where do some people get their nerve?

But I like your suggestion, so let's review:

Mothmonsterman has read the story in question.

Jmacq1 has not read the story in question.

Jmacq1 is scolding Mothmonsterman for not having read the story in question.

Do you know what? I don't seem to recall that the story did show the state of the Empire at the end of the Cassandra Nova arc. There was mention that damage was done, and I'm sure a bunch of ships were destroyed, but that's about it. We never actually saw an empire in ruins.

But you'll forgive me if my memory on the fine details of the story are hazy. It was four years ago, after all, and about two years before we last saw the Shi'ar alive and kicking in the pages of Captain Marvel. Did Beast forget to tell you that part?

Not to mention that the early preview art makes it look a lot more like the X-Men are fighting the Shi'ar, not Vulcan all by his lonesome. Will he play a role? Certainly. Will he be the -only- thing that brings down the Shi'ar? Unlikely.

Way to thoroughly debunk my statement that the Shi'ar have long been used by X-writers as cannon fodder for the X-Men...by telling me that it looks like they'll fight the X-Men. Good show.

And for all we know, the events in X-Men are going on at the same time as "Annihilation", so hey, guess what? Easy excuse for the Shi'ar not to be involved.

There shouldn't be an "excuse" for them to not be involved. If Marvel has decided to make an effort to shine some light on its cosmic scene by having a big crossover between all the major cosmic players, the Shi'ar damn well should be involved.

And besides, what would they add to "Annihilation" anyway besides another race to get destroyed/whittled down/otherwise screwed over along the way?

The Shi'ar have more superheroes than the other empires combined, and more powerful ones, to boot. More important than what they could do is the fact that it would be an opportunity for them to get a rare chance at character development for their heroes and a chance to get some respect thrown their way like Nova, Ronan, Super Skrull, and the rest are getting. That is infinitely preferable to YET ANOTHER round of them getting treated like chumps in an X-Men book. Sorry, but I've seen that one one too many times already.

[Expletive Deleted]

Back off the rhetoric a bit, guys. We're just talking comics, here.

[Zombienorthstar]

So you're lecturing me about not having read that story, even though I did read the story, when your only knowledge about it comes from a paragraph written by somebody else in this very thread? Where do some people get their nerve?

But I like your suggestion, so let's review:

Mothmonsterman has read the story in question.

Jmacq1 has not read the story in question.

Jmacq1 is scolding Mothmonsterman for not having read the story in question.

Do you know what? I don't seem to recall that the story did show the state of the Empire at the end of the Cassandra Nova arc. There was mention that damage was done, and I'm sure a bunch of ships were destroyed, but that's about it. We never actually saw an empire in ruins.

But you'll forgive me if my memory on the fine details of the story are hazy. It was four years ago, after all, and about two years before we last saw the Shi'ar alive and kicking in the pages of Captain Marvel. Did Beast forget to tell you that part?



Way to thoroughly debunk my statement that the Shi'ar have long been used by X-writers as cannon fodder for the X-Men...by telling me that it looks like they'll fight the X-Men. Good show.



There shouldn't be an "excuse" for them to not be involved. If Marvel has decided to make an effort to shine some light on its cosmic scene by having a big crossover between all the major cosmic players, the Shi'ar damn well should be involved.



The Shi'ar have more superheroes than the other empires combined, and more powerful ones, to boot. More important than what they could do is the fact that it would be an opportunity for them to get a rare chance at character development for their heroes and a chance to get some respect thrown their way like Nova, Ronan, Super Skrull, and the rest are getting. That is infinitely preferable to YET ANOTHER round of them getting treated like chumps in an X-Men book. Sorry, but I've seen that one one too many times already.

I agree that agressiveness should be lessened here....HOWEVER

Cassandra Nova only really was shown to have attacked the monarchy and super gaurdians of the shiar empire...the mass populace of the shiar itself was largely untouched by her actions so saying that not a single Aerie could take part in Anhillation is ridiculous when there are billions of them running around...once again though HOWEVER
we have no idea what happened to the hierarchy of the vast empire afterwards...all we know is that Lilandra went abit insane....we do not know how that affected your average Shiar...did it create a power vaccumm? Did it cause mass rebellion and loose large chunks of the empire...we have yet to be told so really until the Brubaker run starts we have no idea which one of you is right.

[tjarvis]

We're not really talking moral superiority, here.

We're talking geekiness.

Anyone who reads comic books in only one genre (whichever genre that is) is geekier than anyone who doesn't. And anyone who reads comic books involving only one property are geekier still. The chart's spot-on in that respect.

That actually strikes me as backward logic. If in general there are more X-Men fans than normal comic geeks, that would make the X-Men more mainstream and inheritently less geeky than a hardcore Silver Sufer fan for example.

[Hawkingbird82]

Lilandra (to Xavier) : Ruin came to us through you, Charles...always you bring ruin...The Empire is broken...I am all broken..."

This is the last thing she says to Xavier, and she's a mess when she does. Now, I don't think its really appropriate to retcon comics to fuel your argument, so I thought some proof as to the brokeness of the Empire was in order.

In New X-Men issue 125, Lilandra tells her people that If they love her they will destroy themselves as she commands. Then she had her ships attack her worlds. Araki then tells her she has brought Doom on galactic civilaization. Mind you, she only had her people attack her people or destroy themselves. You can see in the art that she is communicating with many if not all her soldiers (as they started comming in after "hearing" her command)

Lilandra, their Emperess, was completley a wreck by the end of this saga.

Of course, I'm not saying that it couldn't be fixed in time for Annihilation or that they shouldn't be involved, but it isn't quite accurate to say that the larger Shi'ar Empire was not affected by Cassandra's actions.

[Expletive Deleted]

If in general there are more X-Men fans than normal comic geeks, that would make the X-Men more mainstream and inheritently less geeky than a hardcore Silver Sufer fan for example.That's why I didn't specifically single out the X-Men. It doesn't matter what property you're a fixated on, just that you're fixated.

I'm not bringing the "mainstream vs. obscure" issue into this. My point is that the narrower a fan's focus, the geekier they are.

[Doom Hammer]

Do not hate the characters,hate the writers for they are the ones who make the characters do things.

Yes, because hatred over trvial matters tends to be so beneficial for people.

[Cowlander]

That's why I didn't specifically single out the X-Men. It doesn't matter what property you're a fixated on, just that you're fixated.

I'm not bringing the "mainstream vs. obscure" issue into this. My point is that the narrower a fan's focus, the geekier they are.
Yeah you didnt but the original image did thats why it was relevant in the first place.

I definitely see what youre saying now. But I just think that having a narrow focus isnt as geeky as the supposed moral superiority some fans have towards certain genres. Were all fans, but why are "you" looking down on "me" simply because I dont like what you like.

It isnt mainstream vs obscure like you pointed out. But one fan enjoying what they enjoy and being happy in that an another worrying about and judging another fans tastes, bringing a negativity into it that doesnt need to be there.


On Topic...

I dont think its possible to have the Shiar(the empire) in annihilation in anywhere near the capacity some would like. Theyd pretty much be a footnote, on the way to other sectors. But we should probably see Shiar(the people) in some way shape or form. Wasnt their a Shiar Nova corp member in the Preview? I remember seeing a Shiar in something to do with ANN: but cant remember specifically what.

Even if EB decided that the Shiar were "his" and that they couldnt be used, doesnt matter(and its really stretching it and screams bitter to even suggest it at this point). The editors think the Shiar are put to better use in UXM.

Also lets not forget there is a segment of fans that simply hates anything X. They might feel including them in any way is more "Stupid X-stuff" moving in on my faves. Like some said withthe focus on X later in the big events, editorial most likely decided to do something seperate from the x verse. And whats wrong with that.

[Zombienorthstar]

Lilandra (to Xavier) : Ruin came to us through you, Charles...always you bring ruin...The Empire is broken...I am all broken..."




I appreciate that but they could have an egyptian like culture where the empress is seen as the most important thing in the empire without her the empire is nothing. its like a reciprical symbiote relationship...this doesnt mean the empire wa sliterally broken but without her she felt it would be.

I think this might mean that the power that rules the empire is no longer in control...which to be fair is a mcuh scarier though...billions of people rebelling.

[Doom]

Does anyone have any proof that Giffen or any of the other people on the creative side of Annihilation wanted to use the shi'ar and were denied?


Well editor Andy Schmidt did say he wanted to use a Shi'ar character.

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=118346&page=1&pp=40


And in this thread Keith Griffen says he wanted to use the Shi'ar but couldn't.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=6716

Personally, I believe that given how a lot of Giffen's story threads in Thanos (IE the prison, the Fallen One, etc..) play into this story then I'd say that Giffen may have planed to use Gladiator since he also played a role in that story. (Maybe hunting down the free essence of the Beyonder and/or stopping the Anhilation Wave.)
While I do think it's a shame that he's not going to play a part in Anhilation, I remain hopeful that if Anhilation sells well enough, we will get a Cosmic series out of it, that would explore Marvel's Cosmic Scene. And Gladiator would be more then likely to turn up in that series.

[Jake V]

On another thread, Andy Schmidt said this:

And to be fair to Ed Brubaker, Ed did NOT yank the Shi'ar out of ANNIHILATION. ANNIHILATION was being formed and I asked Ed (since we work on CAPTAIN AMERICA together) if he had plans for them. He did, so we left them alone--and I thank god that we did, because the cast is out of control as is.

So maybe that settles that.

[the_last_rites]

the only thing that drives me insane when it comes to the X-men is the following.

usual convo with someone i end up speaking to about comics

"oh you read comics""

OTHER PERSON

"yeah X-men"

I really can't stand X-zombies,i prefer Marvel to dc in most cases but i am sure over the years x-men over shadows alot of great stuff getting published.Someone who only reads x-men reminds me of the kids in elementary school who bought the sports jacket from starter of the most popular team,there is really no thought in the decision it was made with little knowledge of other teams an players out there it was just being a slave to media an liking the first thing you see.

I read the x-books , all thou there getting rather boring .How long has it been since they have had a major event not involving Sentinals, Apoc, or something not directly dealing with the humans hate mutants thing.

I like to read about superheros that do things, the x-men simply sit in a mansion an whine about being mutants.Besides wolverine there a bunch of one trick ponies as far as powers go,makes them pretty boring compared to the avengers.\

To sum it all up

Marvels X books is basically a superhero soap opera, that will always have a loyal fan base because of the

MUTANT / GAY metaphor alot of closet case teenagers think they can relate to so there for will always buy the x-books before anything else.
oh u'll definitely hate me then, i started out into comics with *drum roll Wolverine