The Kids Are Alright vs The Last Waltz: And the Best Rock Movie Is?

[Ilash]

The Who's The Kids Are Alright and The Band's Last Waltz are widely considered to be the best rock and roll movies ever made and frankly, it's hard to believe that they're not. But which of the two is better?

Personally, however much I love the Last Waltz, TKAA wins for me because while they both have superb music and choosing by that alone may well be pretty difficult (live Who is still better than live Band though), the taking bits in TKAA is every bit as entertaining as the music - and that's saying something. Hell, TKAA may well establish the members of the Who as the most charismatic collection of personalities in a single group ever.

Either way, if you consider yourself to be a fan of this rock and roll music and you haven't seen these masterpieces then please stop reading this RIGHT NOW and RUN off to buy both of them. And if you don't like 'em, well, then maybe you don't like rock and roll as much as you think. Yeah, yeah, I know not very open minded or tolerant of me but c'mon, who're we kidding?

Also, post any other rock and roll movies that are recommended viewing. Me, I'll go for four fictional ones and one non-fictional one:

A Hard Days Night (funny)
This is Spinal Tap (funnier)
Yellow Submarine (bonkers)
Almost Famous (brilliant)

and

Gimme Shelter (damn depressing really, great music though)

[Woodwose]

I'm going with The Last Waltz. What an amazing show. If I could attend any concert that has ever taken place this would be my number one choice.

First off, I'm a huge fan of The Band. The composed some great tunes like, The Weight, Twilight, The Night They Drove Ole Dixie Down, Up On Cripple Creek, I could go on and on. Levon Helm is my favourite member. He's just cool, and an awesome drummer and vocalist.

The show had a killer line up. There was Neil Young, Bob Dylan, Muddy Waters, Neil Diamond, Paul Butterfield, Van Morrison, and appearances by Ringo and Ronny Wood (who amazingly didn't have a drink in his hand).

What I like most about this film is that it does go over board with galmorous shots or an insane light show - it's just good old rock n' roll (with some blues and folky stuff tossed in there too).

This film is just awesome.

[leonaozaki]

THE LAST WALTZ cannot be considered the best anything, ever, and I say this as a very big fan of The Band. I do like THE KIDS ARE ALRIGHT an awful lot, though.

Some runners-up: Neil Young and Crazy Horse, RUST NEVER SLEEPS; WESTWAY TO THE WORLD, which is docked a couple of points for not enough complete performance footage of the Clash, but is worth it for Joe Strummer's absolutely hilarious interviews; THE FILTH AND THE FURY, which was just incredible; SPINAL TAP, of course; and although it's not a rock movie per se, music is so central to the plot of HIGH FIDELITY that I felt it ought to get a mention. Then there's the Rolling Stone's ROCK AND ROLL CIRCUS which gets many points because of the great footage of the Who, Taj Mahal, the Dirty Mac (a one-off supergroup of John Lennon, Eric Clapton and Keith Richards on bass performing "Yer Blues") and of course the Stones, but also has Yoko Ono "performing." Ick. Similarly, THE CONCERT FOR BANGLADESH and THE CONCERT FOR GEORGE were great-- for different reasons of course-- but also had way too much sitar music on them.

I should be receiving THE PIXIES SELL OUT in a couple of weeks so I'll report back on that.

My three favs: Bob Dylan, DON'T LOOK BACK, the White Stripes, UNDER BLACKPOOL LIGHTS, and RAY.

Is Ray Charles technically rock? Of course not. But both the movie and the music squash everything else mentioned in this thread like grapes.

rob

[TomGun13]

I'm a big fan of the Ramones: End of the Century.

[zombie]

I haven't seen either movie, so my pick is...

http://hugereviews.com/images/Movies/spinal6.jpg

[Ilash]

Is Ray Charles technically rock? Of course not. But both the movie and the music squash everything else mentioned in this thread like grapes.

rob

Er, WHHHHAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTT!!?!?!??!?!??!

Ray was a decent enough movie but it's about 100 times worse than most of the movies mentioned. Musically, of course, it's another story but I think a few of these mentioned more than stand up against the genuinely great Ray Charles. The Who, for example, certainly do. Townshend was just that much better a songwriter. Hell, the only real reasons to see that overrated flick are Jaime Fox's excellent performance and the above mentioned phenomenal music.

[Ilash]

I haven't seen either movie, so my pick is...

http://hugereviews.com/images/Movies/spinal6.jpg

Heh.

I laugh just looking at that picture. Post a picture of Stonehenge though and I may well land up on the floor in hysterics.

[Ilash]

THE LAST WALTZ cannot be considered the best anything, ever, and I say this as a very big fan of The Band. I do like THE KIDS ARE ALRIGHT an awful lot, though.

rob

I know you discussed this somewhat before on the Last Waltz thread I started a while back but this statement still confuses the hell out of me. How can a big fan of the Band not love this movie? The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down is worth the price of entrance by itself.

[Chiasm]

I haven't seen either movie, so my pick is...

http://hugereviews.com/images/Movies/spinal6.jpg

Agreed. Gotta vote for Tap as well.

[leonaozaki]

I know you discussed this somewhat before on the Last Waltz thread I started a while back but this statement still confuses the hell out of me. How can a big fan of the Band not love this movie? The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down is worth the price of entrance by itself.

I don't like THE LAST WALTZ for two main reasons: one, the performances -- with the exception of Van Morrison, Emmylou Harris, and Muddy Waters-- are boring and lackluster, and two, Robbie Robertson is waaaay too full of himself.

In my teenage years I owned a vinyl copy of the soundtrack, and as a big Bob Dylan fan I tried to like it. It's just...toothless. Nobody has anything to prove and it just doesn't sound like they're trying very hard. The Band even manage to screw up "Helpless." How? (Other than too much coke.)

I fully realize nothing I write here will change your mind. But you did ask.

rob

[leonaozaki]

Er, WHHHHAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTT!!?!?!??!?!??!

Ray was a decent enough movie but it's about 100 times worse than most of the movies mentioned. Musically, of course, it's another story but I think a few of these mentioned more than stand up against the genuinely great Ray Charles. The Who, for example, certainly do. Townshend was just that much better a songwriter. Hell, the only real reasons to see that overrated flick are Jaime Fox's excellent performance and the above mentioned phenomenal music.

Well, this all hinges on personal taste. I loved RAY the film and would rather listen to Charles's anthology than MEATY BEATY BIG AND BOUNCY, for example. That's not knocking the Who (whom I do like as I continually remind you) but trying to argue that the Who are "better" than Ray Charles is so much an apples and oranges question I don't even know where to begin. I know you love the Who but let's not get carried away.

Also, using Townshend's ability as a songwriter is a bit odd since Charles made equally great music covering other people's songs as well as writing his own.

rob

[Ilash]

Well, this all hinges on personal taste. I loved RAY the film and would rather listen to Charles's anthology than MEATY BEATY BIG AND BOUNCY, for example. That's not knocking the Who (whom I do like as I continually remind you) but trying to argue that the Who are "better" than Ray Charles is so much an apples and oranges question I don't even know where to begin. I know you love the Who but let's not get carried away.

Also, using Townshend's ability as a songwriter is a bit odd since Charles made equally great music covering other people's songs as well as writing his own.

rob

Yup, okay,fair points all.

[Ilash]

I don't like THE LAST WALTZ for two main reasons: one, the performances -- with the exception of Van Morrison, Emmylou Harris, and Muddy Waters-- are boring and lackluster, and two, Robbie Robertson is waaaay too full of himself.

In my teenage years I owned a vinyl copy of the soundtrack, and as a big Bob Dylan fan I tried to like it. It's just...toothless. Nobody has anything to prove and it just doesn't sound like they're trying very hard. The Band even manage to screw up "Helpless." How? (Other than too much coke.)

I fully realize nothing I write here will change your mind. But you did ask.

rob

No, you won't change my mind or I yours but it just strikes me as amazing that two people who are both big fans of The Band could have such different reactions to the same film. One thing I will grant you though is that Robbie does come off as rather full of himself but Levon Helm, who is, lets face it, the man, more than makes up for him. Especially that bit where he talks about those roots of rock and roll. Awesome.

[ghostrider666]

Neither.
I'd go with Spinal Tap. Or if you want a real band, then "The Alice Cooper Show".

[Adam Crocker]

Well, this all hinges on personal taste. I loved RAY the film and would rather listen to Charles's anthology than MEATY BEATY BIG AND BOUNCY, for example. That's not knocking the Who (whom I do like as I continually remind you) but trying to argue that the Who are "better" than Ray Charles is so much an apples and oranges question I don't even know where to begin.

Not necessarily so apples-and-oranges by my estimation. For one thing Ray was a fairly-by-the-numbers biopic. Okay, so was Walk the Line (including moving up Cash's kicking amphetamines to drive home the power of WUV message) but the performances were a lot more convincing (and the resolution more effective) and it didn't have that horrific coda slapped onto the end like Ray did. 'If only your mother was here.' "She already is." Dear god.

(Haven't seen The Kids Are Alright yet.)

[berk]

I have an aversion to watching actors attempt to reproduce contemporary personalities of whom there is abundant documentary footage. I've managed to avoid Will Smith's imitation of Muhammed Ali, whoever-the-hell-it-was's of Ray Charles, Johnny Cash, & Rocket Richard, and I won't watch the upcoming dramatization of the 72 Canada/Soviet hockey series.

Haven't seen the Last Waltz, so I can't comment. Haven't seen The Kids Are Allright, even though I bought the soundtrack on vinyl the day it came out (well, at least the day it came out in Nfld).

So, of what's been mentioned so far, for me it's a toss-up between 'Spinal Tap' and 'The Filth & the Fury.' And much as I love the Spinal Tap movie, I give my nod to the other one. If you've seen it you already know why. Or you disagree.

[Woodwose]

... Levon Helm, who is, lets face it, the man, more than makes up for him. Especially that bit where he talks about those roots of rock and roll. Awesome.

My thoughts exactly. Levon is great.

The Band even manage to screw up "Helpless."

How did they screw up Helpless? The LW version is my favourite, what exactly is wrong with it?

[howyadoin]

Several possibilities:

End of the Century.

The Filth and the Fury.

24-Hour Party People.

Thunderstruck (worth it for the graveyard scene alone).

Almost Famous.

Singles.

[Ilash]

(Haven't seen The Kids Are Alright yet.)

Wow, really? That's pretty surprising (for some reason) but you really should check it out. I know we don't exactly have the same taste in music but I am 99% sure that you'll love it.

[Ilash]

(Haven't seen The Kids Are Alright yet.)

Wow, really? That's pretty surprising (for some reason) but you really should check it out. I know we don't exactly have the same taste in music but I am 99% sure that you'll love it.

[leonaozaki]

Not necessarily so apples-and-oranges by my estimation. For one thing Ray was a fairly-by-the-numbers biopic. Okay, so was Walk the Line (including moving up Cash's kicking amphetamines to drive home the power of WUV message) but the performances were a lot more convincing (and the resolution more effective) and it didn't have that horrific coda slapped onto the end like Ray did. 'If only your mother was here.' "She already is." Dear god.

(Haven't seen The Kids Are Alright yet.)

Again, this is where it comes down to taste, because I had the opposite reaction to Ray and Walk the Line. The other problem with Walk the Line, of course, that Ray didn't have, was that Joaquim Phoenix and Reese Witherspoon are no Johnny and June Carter Cash. I mean, duh. Why they just couldn't lipsync like Jamie Foxx (and even Val Kilmer in the stillbirth of The Doors) is beyond me.

But the point I was referring to was Ilash's argument that the Who are better than Ray Charles. That's what I think is the apples and oranges question. I still enjoy RAY more than THE KIDS ARE ALRIGHT but that's a question of taste.

rob

[leonaozaki]

How did they screw up Helpless? The LW version is my favourite, what exactly is wrong with it?

It's a three-chord song. It's not hard. But the Band either (a) don't know the song and so muff chord changes left and right and don't know when to sing the chorus or (b) are so coked out of their minds they've forgotten, or (c) some odd combination of the above. To me it's just painful to watch.

rob

[Slam_Bradley]

Hail! Hail! Rock 'n' Roll

[Expletive Deleted]

I've gotta go with STOP MAKING SENSE.

[Lubichev]

Rock and Roll High School.

[Rob Imes]

I voted for The Kids Are Alright because I remember seeing that years ago on TV and liking it. It's full of old clips of The Who, right? I recall a scene from the movie where they are sitting around a TV presenter, being interviewed, and how juvenile and giggly they all were behaving. It struck me how the artists back in the 1960s were treated (by the older folks) like jokes, didn't take themselves seriously, and yet were making music of lasting value. Whereas it struck me that later artists -- people like Sting and Madonna in the 1980s -- were just the opposite: They acted all serious in interviews, were treated seriously, and yet whose music in comparison was of less worth and importance.

When I was growing up in the 1980s, one of my favorite rock movies (not sure if it was a theatrical release or just for TV) was the documentary The Compleat Beatles. Not a perfect film (for example, it showed the "Penny Lane" video in B&W instead of color for some reason), but it helped fuel this fan's excitement over what the Beatles had accomplished and how they did it, at a time when I was just starting to acquire all the Beatles albums. I still think the film is a good short history-lesson for those who don't want to sit through the more exhaustive Beatles Anthology (which is superior in almost every way except brevity).

The Rutles TV movie tells the same story as The Compleat Beatles, but as parody. I'll have to get this on DVD someday.

Another music documentary that I really love is one that aired on VH-1 about 3 or 4 years ago, a "Behind the Music" special called "KISS: Behind the Makeup" or something like that, documenting the career of KISS from the pre-makeup Wicked Lester band to their return to makeup in the 1990s. Great archival clips such as Gene Simmons appearing on the Mike Douglas Show. Stan Lee even appears (unmentioned) in an old news clip about the KISS Marvel comicbook printed with real Kiss blood in the ink. I've had friends my age sit down and watch this show with me as it's a real nostalgic trip.

[Dennis K]

I haven't seen either movie, so my pick is...

http://hugereviews.com/images/Movies/spinal6.jpg



Zombie is correct.

[Ilash]

I voted for The Kids Are Alright because I remember seeing that years ago on TV and liking it. It's full of old clips of The Who, right? I recall a scene from the movie where they are sitting around a TV presenter, being interviewed, and how juvenile and giggly they all were behaving. It struck me how the artists back in the 1960s were treated (by the older folks) like jokes, didn't take themselves seriously, and yet were making music of lasting value. Whereas it struck me that later artists -- people like Sting and Madonna in the 1980s -- were just the opposite: They acted all serious in interviews, were treated seriously, and yet whose music in comparison was of less worth and importance.

Very, very true. One of my favourie things about the Who is that while they would come up with some serious, serious music (lets see someone like Sting or Madonna come up with Quadrophenia), there was a side to them that was for ever self-depracating and just plain fun. And it's this lack of pretention (and yeah, I know calling Pete Townshend unpretentious seems a bit strange) that made their serious arty moments so powerful. And then of course there's the fact that Pete Townshend, Keith Moon, Roger Daltrey and John Entwistle are unquestionably four of the greatest personalities in all of popular music and as such the music they put out can't help but land up very much reflecting that. There is a reason after all why I hold them in such incredibly high esteem. Forget Pink Floyd, these guys were the ultimate art-rockers. Forget Led Zeppelin, the Who are hard rock par excellence. Forget the Sex Pistols, The Who represent teenage (or even just teenage at heart) angst and disillusionment better than anyone. A better live band than The Who in their prime, I have yet to come across and they are one of the most awe inspiring gathering of uber-talented musicians I have ever come across (anyone who doubts the greatness of Pete's guitar playing have simply never heard Live At Leeds). And as far as explosive sixties pop singles go, only the Beatles, the Stones and the Kinks (and then "explosive" applies better to The Who than any of these) could really match them. All this and I am seriously of the opinion that the Who may well be the most emotive and spiritual band ever. And one of the funniest.

Excuse that little Who love-fest that just occured (and for what its worth, they are only my third favourite band of all time - well, in truth, they're tied for second but gun to the head I would choose the Stones simply because they released more prime material - because they do have some relatively minor flaws) but I just listened to a few of their classic sixties singles and though I've heard them all hundreds of times by now, they still blow my mind. Yup, not bad for a bunch of clowns (if The Kids Are Alright, which actually ranks as one of the funniest movies I've ever seen, is to be believed) . Not bad at all.

[Dan Apodaca]

I Am Trying To Break Your Heart, a film about Wilco by Sam Jones. This is an incredible documentary on an incredible band.

I just saw The Devil and Daniel Johnston. Damn, that was awesome. It's a pretty good documentary, and a really captivating story.

[Hombre]

Also, post any other rock and roll movies that are recommended viewing.

Besides Last Waltz, which I consider an outstanding concert, I also liked Stop Making Sense and Quadrophenia.

I don't know if Alice's Restaurant counts, but I would recommend it, for the scene in which Songs to Aging Children Come is played at a funeral in the snow, if nothing else.

[Ilash]

Besides Last Waltz, which I consider an outstanding concert, I also liked Stop Making Sense and Quadrophenia.


About Quadrophenia, I've never actually seen it because from what I hear, it's focus is much more on the whole mod/rocker thing than on Jimmy's own spiritual crisis, which misses the point of the album entirely. Is it really any good? Also, how much of the Quad album actually lands up on screen?

[Hombre]

About Quadrophenia, I've never actually seen it because from what I hear, it's focus is much more on the whole mod/rocker thing than on Jimmy's own spiritual crisis, which misses the point of the album entirely. Is it really any good? Also, how much of the Quad album actually lands up on screen?

I saw the movie years ago, but I didn't hear the album. I found the use of the Who's music to be very effective and prominent, and I really liked the story... I was very moved by the guy's disillusionment and alienation.

I always compare the ending to that movie to the ending of Harold and Maude, two young men making opposite choices when reaching the same crossroads in their life.

Anyway, Quadrophenia may be the one and only time Sting's ever actually been cool, no small achievement in itself.