The Final Fate of the New Avengers

[Smokey17]

Well it looks like Cival War will end the New Avengers as we know them. From what I've been reading we will be losing some members.

it's clearly apparant that Iron Man is most likely leaving. I remember Bendis said that He had plans for Him and Echo to hook up but that's thrown out the window. Also there was a remark about Stark towers being someone's headquarters after it all.

What do you guys think. I really REally like this incarnation of them. and we still have the Main Shield Subplot to go and Of Course Spider-Woman's loyalties.

[BlackKnight]

Well it looks like Cival War will end the New Avengers as we know them. From what I've been reading we will be losing some members.

it's clearly apparant that Iron Man is most likely leaving. I remember Bendis said that He had plans for Him and Echo to hook up but that's thrown out the window. Also there was a remark about Stark towers being someone's headquarters after it all.

What do you guys think. I really REally like this incarnation of them. and we still have the Main Shield Subplot to go and Of Course Spider-Woman's loyalties.

Well with recent rumours, it looks like Cap will not being leading the NA team, so maybe it will be Iron Man in charge. Lots of things are up in the air right now.

[unkiedev]

I feel kinda cheated. We'll see how the story plays out, but I like this book with this cast. I've been buying it since the beginning. I want to read about this team.

Frankly if you told me a year and a half ago the team would only exist for such a brief time and really only have 3 story archs...

I hope they keep the book going, but it looks like they ain't.

[Jmacq1]

Captain America: According to rumors, he'll be leading Alpha Flight in Canada.

Iron Man: Likely the leader of whatever team is calling themselves "The Avengers" after Civil War is over.

Sentry: Likely still with the team. Hasn't had enough development/screen time to do away with him yet.

Luke Cage: Quits the team, moves to the recently-announced "Heroes For Hire" title.

Spider-Man: Up in the air. Depends on what side of the "war" he ends up on (by its' conclusion). According to most beliefs, probably not with the team anymore.

Wolverine: Probably in Alpha Flight with Cap.

Spider-Woman: May or may not be with the team. My running theory is that all her spotlight time in New Avengers has just been to build her up for her solo title. Still don't know which side of the War she'll end up on (but I'm betting Tony's at the moment).

Ronin: Is she even a member of the team? Obviously won't be with whatever group Tony's with, if plans for a hookup had to be nixed.

So in other words, we're probably looking at a -completely- new and different team post "Civil War". With the almost-certain exception of Iron Man, and possibly Sentry and Spider-Woman.

[StoneGold]

Frankly if you told me a year and a half ago the team would only exist for such a brief time and really only have 3 story archs....
I wouldn't be surprised if this was Bendis' attempt to mimick the original Avengers. How long did the first team actually stay together? All the way through #15?

[Kirk G]

I wouldn't be surprised if this was Bendis' attempt to mimick the original Avengers. How long did the first team actually stay together? All the way through #15?

Original Avengers assembled in #1,
Hulk leaves in #2,
fights with Sub-Mariner's side in #3,
Cap arrives in #4, fights Submariner,
#5 Hulk guestars with Avengers vs Lava Men... last Hulk appearance.
#6-14 Team with Cap.
#15 Cap fights solo in South America with Rick Jones, originals fight in NYC.
#16 Iron Man announces search, Cap returns to find originals have left, he's incharge of three new recruits.
#17 Cap's Kookie Quartett begins...runs in some form through at least #26...return of Wasp (Swordsman appears #19-20 as prospective member but revealed as villian.) :eek:

[Will.S]

I feel kinda cheated. We'll see how the story plays out, but I like this book with this cast. I've been buying it since the beginning. I want to read about this team.

Frankly if you told me a year and a half ago the team would only exist for such a brief time and really only have 3 story archs...

I hope they keep the book going, but it looks like they ain't.
I pretty much feel the same way. It sucks because there is still alot to explore with this particular team.

[StoneGold]

#17 Cap's Kookie Quartett begins...runs in some form through at least
You are off by an issue.

http://www.plexico.net/avengers/covers/avg016.jpg

[dingo]

It makes perfect sense to me that they should shake things up. If they start a new Alpha Flight team and get half their NA readers on to that book, and only lose, say 20% of their NA readers then they are still up 30% overall.

Far more likely they will gain NA readers though.

[We R. Venom]

Well this is nothing new to the Avengers but still...Damn, NA was one of the best books out, what now?

[stillanerd]

Captain America: According to rumors, he'll be leading Alpha Flight in Canada.

Iron Man: Likely the leader of whatever team is calling themselves "The Avengers" after Civil War is over.

Sentry: Likely still with the team. Hasn't had enough development/screen time to do away with him yet.

Luke Cage: Quits the team, moves to the recently-announced "Heroes For Hire" title.

Spider-Man: Up in the air. Depends on what side of the "war" he ends up on (by its' conclusion). According to most beliefs, probably not with the team anymore.

Wolverine: Probably in Alpha Flight with Cap.

Spider-Woman: May or may not be with the team. My running theory is that all her spotlight time in New Avengers has just been to build her up for her solo title. Still don't know which side of the War she'll end up on (but I'm betting Tony's at the moment).

Ronin: Is she even a member of the team? Obviously won't be with whatever group Tony's with, if plans for a hookup had to be nixed.

So in other words, we're probably looking at a -completely- new and different team post "Civil War". With the almost-certain exception of Iron Man, and possibly Sentry and Spider-Woman.

I can certainly see those possibilities, with some minor exceptions. For instance, hopefully Wolverine will be limited to Astonishing X-Men and his own monthly title after this, considering how overexposed he's become in the last few years. Also, I imagine that Ronin/Echo since she was just brought on board it seems, wouldn't necessarily leave any time soon, so the possible Iron Man/Ronin romance could still happen after Civil War is over. The Sentry, for some reason, I don't think will choose to side with the pro-registration side, and because, like Spider-Woman, the series was designed to introduce his comic, which he now has.

Also, I pretty much agree with the sentiments that Bendis could try to possibly mimic (no pun intendend) the original Avengers, and perhaps mix up a bit of West Coast Avengers and New Avengers with this line-up:

*Iron Man
*Thor (who could return as part of a story arc that happens AFTER Civil War)
*Hank Pym (more of an advisor than active hero)
*The Wasp
*Black Golitah (taking the Giant Man spot)
*She-Hulk (taking the Hulk spot)
*USAgent (taking the Captain America spot)
*Hawkeye
*Ronin
*Wonder Man
*Ms. Marvel

[Jmacq1]

I can certainly see those possibilities, with some minor exceptions. For instance, hopefully Wolverine will be limited to Astonishing X-Men and his own monthly title after this, considering how overexposed he's become in the last few years. Also, I imagine that Ronin/Echo since she was just brought on board it seems, wouldn't necessarily leave any time soon, so the possible Iron Man/Ronin romance could still happen after Civil War is over. The Sentry, for some reason, I don't think will choose to side with the pro-registration side, and because, like Spider-Woman, the series was designed to introduce his comic, which he now has.

Also, I pretty much agree with the sentiments that Bendis could try to possibly mimic (no pun intendend) the original Avengers, and perhaps mix up a bit of West Coast Avengers and New Avengers with this line-up:

*Iron Man
*Thor (who could return as part of a story arc that happens AFTER Civil War)
*Hank Pym (more of an advisor than active hero)
*The Wasp
*Black Golitah (taking the Giant Man spot)
*She-Hulk (taking the Hulk spot)
*USAgent (taking the Captain America spot)
*Hawkeye
*Ronin
*Wonder Man
*Ms. Marvel

The only problem I see with that lineup is that I can't possibly imagine that -none- of the original and/or A-list Avengers would side with Captain America. I find it hard to swallow that they'd -all- just abandon the guy that's repeatedly kept them going for all those years. I mean seriously, the Avengers have certainly had more internal problems with Tony over the years than Cap. Given that Cap's supposed to be the most respected/beloved/etc... I can't see everyone just abandoning him because he takes up a controversial position. Particularly Hawkeye, Ms. Marvel, and Thor (assuming it's the original Thor that returns and not some "new" version).

[Red State Cap]

Just FYI, the "Captain Canada" rumor has been pretty well debunked.

RSC

[BlackKnight]

Just FYI, the "Captain Canada" rumor has been pretty well debunked.

RSC

Do you mean him going to Canada or Cap changing his name?


And how has it be debunked?

[Red State Cap]

This thread over at CAMB contains a convincing (to me at least) hint that it is false.
http://www.comicboards.com/camb/view.php?trd=060403210931

RSC

[BlackKnight]

Mr. Brubaker pooh-poohed the idea on CAMB. He didn't categorically say it was false (probably can't for professional reasons) but I'm confident that it is false.

RSC

So Brubaker basically said, that Cap is not going to Canada. Hmmmm interesting...

[Mo S.]

No, Brubaker did not actually say anything, other than he wasn't going to discuss a rumor. Of course, asking him about someone else's storyline, probably 4-5 months in advance of the issue actually coming out, is guaranteed to get a virtual "no comment" - what do people think he's going to say? "No, let me tell you exactly how this plays out"?

Let's try this - here is exactly what it says in the rumor column:

The new Alpha Flight series will be manned by American heroes who have moved to Canada as a result of the government legislation enacted in the 'Civil War' megacrossover. It plays off the history of Americans escaping the draft during the Vietnam War, as well as recent declarations by certain people that they'd move to Canada if Bush was re elected (and then not). It's politically observant, satirical, colonialist and intentionally controversial. And leading the team? Captain America, obviously.

The last sentence looks more like a snarky comment than part of the actual rumor, to me. But you know, it could be true, and there could actually be a reason behind it that makes sense. But people would rather make blanket statements about how it's absolutely impossible, without knowing any of the circumstances. And, of course, it could be completely untrue or only partly true - Rich's track record is good, but not infallible.

[Kirk G]

You are off by an issue.

http://www.plexico.net/avengers/covers/avg016.jpg
Thanks, Stone Gold, but I stand by my original statement. If you read these issues, you find that Cap as gone off to S.America to rescue Rick Jones in #15 "By My Hand A Villian Shall Perish". Throughout issue #16, Cap is making his way back to NYC with Rick as the original Avengers are departing and/or calling for new members. They welcome Wanda, Pietro and Clint (as we have recently seen in a brilliantly edited down version at the end of #503)...
And though Cap arrives at the end of issue #16 to find he's been put in charge of three new recruits as Iron Man leaves... other than appearing before a cheering crowd... nothing happens.

Cap's Kookie Quartett, as they were known and insulted in the fans letter pages for months afterwards, started their first adventure in issue #17.
They may have been assembled (literally) in issue #16, the first great reshuffling, but their first adventure begins in issue #17 and continues until the return (sort-of) of the Wasp and later Goliath with the Attuma flood issues and then the first appearance of the Collector.

[Red State Cap]

I won't be reading Civil War and I don't care what happens. The fate of the New Avengers wrt "Civil War" is pretty much a wash for me. Moreover, Mr. Bendis has proven to me that he does not and will never write them well. The fact that after a year and a half he is still "assembling the team" that has appeared on covers since #1 is just beyond belief.
Of the members, "Ronin" is an obscure female in a man-suit, Sentry is a head-case that has yet to do a thing despite being "cured" (by Emma Frost), Spider-Woman is (at last count) a quintuple-agent, Cap is a figurehead at best, Iron Man is apparently no longer too broke to fund the team, Spider-Man is a juvenile, and Wolverine may or may not be around for next issue depending on his duties in 32 other books.
All told I just don't care what happens in Mr. Bendis' New Avengers any more, but until he decides he wants to move on to new things, this is how things will continue.

RSC

[Red State Cap]

So Brubaker basically said, that Cap is not going to Canada. Hmmmm interesting...
Note, I edited my post to provide a link instead and deleted what you quoted.

RSC

[Red State Cap]

No, Brubaker did not actually say anything, other than he wasn't going to discuss a rumor. Of course, asking him about someone else's storyline, probably 4-5 months in advance of the issue actually coming out, is guaranteed to get a virtual "no comment" - what do people think he's going to say? "No, let me tell you exactly how this plays out"?

No, what he said was "There is a reason they call them "rumors," and this one isn't worth commenting on beyond that." That is more than just saying "no comment."
He did not say anything categorically, and for professional reasons probably can't. However, his tone says to me that (at least wrt Cap going) the rumor is false. You can see it that way, or not.

RSC

[stillanerd]

The only problem I see with that lineup is that I can't possibly imagine that -none- of the original and/or A-list Avengers would side with Captain America. I find it hard to swallow that they'd -all- just abandon the guy that's repeatedly kept them going for all those years. I mean seriously, the Avengers have certainly had more internal problems with Tony over the years than Cap. Given that Cap's supposed to be the most respected/beloved/etc... I can't see everyone just abandoning him because he takes up a controversial position. Particularly Hawkeye, Ms. Marvel, and Thor (assuming it's the original Thor that returns and not some "new" version).

Well, you do have a point about Thor (perhaps Sentry fills that spot) and I could see Black Widow take Wasp's place. As for the rest of them, one has to consider that the "New" New Avengers will be the result of the superbeing registration act and is therefore a government/S.H.E.I.L.D. sponsored team after Civil War is over. That being that case, some heroes may not have any choice in the matter and have to work with Tony, some (like USAgent) may relish it, and maybe one member (say Hawkeye) might actually act as a spy for Captain America and feed him information.

[BlackKnight]

No, Brubaker did not actually say anything, other than he wasn't going to discuss a rumor. Of course, asking him about someone else's storyline, probably 4-5 months in advance of the issue actually coming out, is guaranteed to get a virtual "no comment" - what do people think he's going to say? "No, let me tell you exactly how this plays out"?

Let's try this - here is exactly what it says in the rumor column:

The new Alpha Flight series will be manned by American heroes who have moved to Canada as a result of the government legislation enacted in the 'Civil War' megacrossover. It plays off the history of Americans escaping the draft during the Vietnam War, as well as recent declarations by certain people that they'd move to Canada if Bush was re elected (and then not). It's politically observant, satirical, colonialist and intentionally controversial. And leading the team? Captain America, obviously.

The last sentence looks more like a snarky comment than part of the actual rumor, to me. But you know, it could be true, and there could actually be a reason behind it that makes sense. But people would rather make blanket statements about how it's absolutely impossible, without knowing any of the circumstances. And, of course, it could be completely untrue or only partly true - Rich's track record is good, but not infallible.

Slow down, no need to get jumpy... I was just trying to clear up what Red Cap said, and did just that.

Thanks for your concern. :D

[Mo S.]

Slow down, no need to get jumpy... I was just trying to clear up what Red Cap said, and did just that.

Thanks for your concern. :D

Monday.. (Tuesday? Whatever day it was that LITG came out), I got involved in a 20+ PAGE thread on this that annoyed the holy heck out of me, and I was so tired of the phrase "draft dodger Cap" that I had to quit about 10 pages in....

The first issue of this doesn't even come out for a month. The first Civil War related NA issue is, what, #21, and we're on 17 or something, so that'll be even longer. A little math tells us that Cap is still consider a "New Avenger" until then, which must be July sometime.

The problem with these long advance arguments is that everyone will be heartily sick of the topic by the time the issues come out.

[Red State Cap]

The problem with these long advance arguments is that everyone will be heartily sick of the topic by the time the issues come out.
...And at that time, everyone will reprise the same arguments all over again with equal if not greater vehemence. :rolleyes:

RSC

[BlackKnight]

Monday.. (Tuesday? Whatever day it was that LITG came out), I got involved in a 20+ PAGE thread on this that annoyed the holy heck out of me, and I was so tired of the phrase "draft dodger Cap" that I had to quit about 10 pages in....

The first issue of this doesn't even come out for a month. The first Civil War related NA issue is, what, #21, and we're on 17 or something, so that'll be even longer. A little math tells us that Cap is still consider a "New Avenger" until then, which must be July sometime.

The problem with these long advance arguments is that everyone will be heartily sick of the topic by the time the issues come out.

I totally understand what you are saying, but what did it have to do with me trying to clear something up with Red Cap?

[BlackKnight]

...And at that time, everyone will reprise the same arguments all over again with equal if not greater vehemence. :rolleyes:

RSC

I agree, we will see all the same people saying the same stuff, like all these conversations never happened.

[Mo S.]

I totally understand what you are saying, but what did it have to do with me trying to clear something up with Red Cap?

Lol, that's because I wasn't addressing your discussion directly, rather than the topic at hand, which was Brubaker's comments. Blame it on me being too lazy to excerpt multiple quotes and thereby not being clear...

[stillanerd]

http://www.comicboards.com/camb/view.php?rpl=060404185033

There's a reason they call them 'rumors' and this one isn't worth commenting on beyond that

Sounds like a debunk to me...and I couldn't be more relieved. Thank you, Mr. Brubaker.