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View Full Version : 9/11 plotter could recieve death sentance.


thehod
04-04-2006, 07:35 AM
Interesting story this. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4874352.stm)

Families of the victims of 9/11 have been reacting with mixed emotions to a jury's decision that confessed al-Qaeda plotter Zacarias Moussaoui is eligible to face the death penalty.

Testimony from those who lost loved ones in the 2001 terror attacks against the US will form a crucial part of what is set to be a highly emotional second phase of the sentencing trial.

Victims' relatives will get their day in court to present their own harrowing stories of loss as prosecutors seek to show the human impact of the al-Qaeda strikes.

Abraham Scott lost his wife in the attack on the Pentagon, a few miles from the Alexandria courthouse.

He described Moussaoui as like "a dog with rabies" that could not be cured, but said that he found little comfort in the decision to make him face execution.

"I thought I'd be elated but I wasn't," he said.

"Even though Moussaoui made certain negative comments I still feel sorry for him but not sorry enough to drop the decision of him being given the death penalty."

There was a very quiet and tense hour in the courtroom after the jurors had signalled they had reached a decision.

Moussaoui, 37, showed little emotion as the jury's verdict was read out. But as he left the room he shouted: "You'll never get my blood, God curse you all."

Even before the hearing started, those inside the courtroom knew Moussaoui was close by because he could be heard shouting every time a side door was opened up.

Rosemary Dillard, whose husband, Eddie, was also aboard the plane that crashed into the Pentagon, has been closely following the case and intends to attend the next phase of the sentencing trial.

She said the verdict was just what she wanted to hear.
"I especially want to take time to say thank-you to [prosecutor] David Novak whose passionate closing at the hearing was everything, I mean he covered every point that the judge had given them.

"He did such a wonderful job, I think every family member was very proud of him, very proud of what the FBI, of the job that they did."

Mrs Dillard described Moussaoui's behaviour as he left the courtroom as "unbelievable".

"This man has no soul, no conscience. What else could we ask for but this?" she said.

The jury's verdict came days after Moussaoui stunned the courtroom and America by undercutting his defence - testifying that he was supposed to fly a plane into the White House on 9/11.

No penalty or verdict could reverse the pain and horror inflicted by the 9/11 hijackers and their collaborators

Legal experts suggested he had effectively put a noose around his own neck with the testimony, and that the death penalty was now the most likely verdict in the case.

But Carrie Lemack, one of the founders of the Families of September 11 support group - whose mother Judy was murdered on 9/11 - said it was a mistake to allow Moussaoui to "martyr" himself.

Her first reaction was "disappointment" at the verdict.

"This case is taking up so much time and attention and millions of dollars - it would be better if he simply spent the rest of his life in prison," she said.

The next phase of the case is set to begin on Thursday. The defence will try to suggest that Moussaoui is mentally ill and it might also be suggested that he wants to be executed.

There was swift political reaction to the verdict.

US Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist said it was a "small but important piece of justice".

"No penalty or verdict could reverse the pain and horror inflicted by the 9/11 hijackers and their collaborators," Mr Frist said in a statement.

"However, Mr Moussaoui's punishment is proof that our society is grounded in the liberating power of justice and the rule of law, which are our most valuable weapons in the War on Terror."

Tim Roemer, a former Democratic congressman and a member of the September 11 commission inquiry, told AFP news agency he hoped the jury's decision would offer some closure to the families of those who died.

"I hope it will [also] wake our government up to pass the needed reforms to make our country safer when there is so much more to do," he added.

I know that I'm not best placed to comment on this seeing as I wasn't directly effected by either 9/11 or the bombing on London, and I'm sure if I had, I'd be hoping that the bastard would burn in hell...

but

As far as I understand it (and I've not been following it with any great conviction so my understanding may be totally misplaced, feel free to correct me) the crux of the case is that a) Moussaoui was part of the group that planned the attacks, but was arrested on another matter before they took place, and b) he didn't inform authorities that these attacks were due to take place, therefore allowing them to happen.

Now, the man is clearly guilty of all of the above, but does that warrent the death penalty? It has been stated that the FBI knew more than Moussaoui, so allthough they were obviously not a guilty party, aren't they just as culpable?

Highly emotive issue, I'm sure. I have to say that I think the death penalty is not a valid judgement in this case, but I'll caveat that with the comment that it would only take the issue of circumstance and geography to completley change my opinion.

spideyrules99
04-04-2006, 07:41 AM
I am not torn on this one at all. While the fbi and others had info they were not able to put it together. Shame on them. But had this guy fessed up they would have known that something was going down. I am not going to say it would have been stopped but chances are something would have been done.
If he had told them and it happened anyway than maybe he has a case not to get the chair. But he sat by and did nothing and let peope die.
That by itself wins him death in my book.

Huh?
04-04-2006, 07:48 AM
Yeah, as conflicted as I am on the death penalty, I have no qualms about this at all. This guy deserves to die.

Shellhead
04-04-2006, 07:49 AM
As far as I understand it (and I've not been following it with any great conviction so my understanding may be totally misplaced, feel free to correct me) the crux of the case is that a) Moussaoui was part of the group that planned the attacks, but was arrested on another matter before they took place, and b) he didn't inform authorities that these attacks were due to take place, therefore allowing them to happen.

Now, the man is clearly guilty of all of the above, but does that warrent the death penalty? It has been stated that the FBI knew more than Moussaoui, so allthough they were obviously not a guilty party, aren't they just as culpable?

Highly emotive issue, I'm sure. I have to say that I think the death penalty is not a valid judgement in this case, but I'll caveat that with the comment that it would only take the issue of circumstance and geography to completley change my opinion.

A few weeks before 9/11, a local FBI agent got a tip from a local flight school that this guy Moussaoui was learning to fly planes but didn't want to bother with the lessons on how to take off or land. They arrested this guy, but internal communications within the FBI kept this incident from getting the attention that it deserved.

Our papers have been following this story for years, and while there has been a lot of speculation that he was the "20th terrorist" who was supposed to participate in the 9/11 attacks, they were unable to solidly prove this in court. In the end, Moussaoui himself ended up testifying against himself in exchange for better conditions during his incarceration, allowing them to find him guilty as charged. I don't think that he has been tortured, but there were some serious procedural errors during his trial.

Personally, I believe that Moussaoui may have been the "20th terrorist", or at least knew about the impending 9/11 attacks and could have provided enough information to prevent it. If so, he definitely deserves the death penalty, the same death penalty that he effectively imposed on a few thousand innocent people by his silence. Given that the prosecution didn't quite make their case, I would be satisfied with a life sentence for Moussaoui. That way, if exonerating evidence ever turns up, the man can be set free.

Winslow
04-04-2006, 07:58 AM
I have no moral objection to this guy getting the death penalty.

From a political perspective, they're making him a martyr, which is what he wanted. Maybe not the best punishment.

JolietJake
04-04-2006, 08:06 AM
I'm similarly torn on a philosophical level about the death penalty. Having said that, If Mr. Moussaoui and those responsible for 9/11 (or really any other plot which targets innocent people anywhere in the world) don't deserve the death penalty, then I'm not sure that anyone does.

What bothers me more about this particular case is the goverment's conduct in its preparation for the penalty-trial. I'm specifically referring to the allegations of witness-tampering by one of the government's attorneys. Given the subject matter of the trial, the venue (4th Circuit in Virginia), and the Defendant's volatile behavior, I'll bet that a 1st-year law student could have convinced a jury this guy needed to die. In fact, he WANTS to die. Yet one of the supporting counsel for the state chose to coach witnesses on how to testify most favorably for the state.

My problem is this. When the rest of the world perceives you as arrogant, corrupt, and out of control ... why behave in a manner that confirms that suspicion?

Dr. Hfuhruhurr
04-04-2006, 10:09 AM
Personally, I think Moussaoui is a couple virgins short of paradise, if you know what I mean. I haven't followed his case very closely, but from what I've read, it's my impression that he was more of an al Qaeda wannabe more than anything else. And, let's not kid ourselves, had he not taken the stand and testified, I doubt the jury would have been able to find as it did, based on the testimony to that point. Moussaoui sabotaged his own case, but for what reason is unclear to me. Did he want the death penalty so he can die a martyr? Beats me. But the bottom line is that he testified to things that the government wanted to prove, but could not.

In any event, Moussaoui's case is more of a distraction than anything else. Putting this man to death for 9/11 may give comfort to some of the families of the victims, but it shouldn't. There are still, now 4 1/2 or so years later, serious, fundamental problems with our national security that are readily known and could be easily exploited by terrorists. If we let Moussaoui's conviction distract us from that, we have only ourselves to blame should we suffer another catastrophic attack.

Deathstroke
04-04-2006, 12:53 PM
Start spreading the news...he should die.

cable guy
04-04-2006, 01:17 PM
I hope they waste little time in killing this guy.

Jake V
04-04-2006, 01:46 PM
While yeah, his crimes make him deserve the death penalty, something I have no problem with, wouldn't killing him make him the martyr he wants to be? Doesn't sound like much of a punishment from his perspective.

BlairH
04-04-2006, 01:55 PM
This goes beyond punishment. Some people are just evil, and deserve to die.

cactusmaac
04-04-2006, 02:05 PM
While yeah, his crimes make him deserve the death penalty, something I have no problem with, wouldn't killing him make him the martyr he wants to be? Doesn't sound like much of a punishment from his perspective.

Think of it as a win-win situation.

HomerJay
04-04-2006, 02:06 PM
While yeah, his crimes make him deserve the death penalty, something I have no problem with, wouldn't killing him make him the martyr he wants to be? Doesn't sound like much of a punishment from his perspective.
I agree. I think killing him is exactly what he wants.
Put him in general population and expose him to a steady diet of humiliation and tossing salads 2-3 times a day.

Dr. Hfuhruhurr
04-04-2006, 02:28 PM
This goes beyond punishment. Some people are just evil, and deserve to die.

Really? You can tell this guy is evil? How, pray tell? Do you base it on the statements he made in court? Did you consider for a moment that he might not be telling the truth?

Personally, I have no idea whether or not he told the truth on the stand. I have no idea whether he is "evil" or not. My powers of mental telepathy don't extend that far.

I wonder, perhaps, how closely you have followed this case, because even from what cursory attention to it I have paid, I know there is far more than might appear on the surface.

If you're truly going to become a lawyer, you would do well to learn far more about your subject before making such blanket pronouncements.

Trystenn
04-04-2006, 02:32 PM
While yeah, his crimes make him deserve the death penalty, something I have no problem with, wouldn't killing him make him the martyr he wants to be? Doesn't sound like much of a punishment from his perspective.
Which is why i think they should lock him up in a prison in New York for life.

Naldo
04-04-2006, 02:34 PM
Give him what he wanted.

Take him up to 8,000 feet and push him out the door.

Or, since these fellows tend to the medieval, put him in a trebuchet and fling him against a wall.

Dr. Hfuhruhurr
04-04-2006, 02:34 PM
It took about 2 minutes of looking to find this, for example:

But as only the LAT says up high, Moussaoui's claim to be in-the-know was, as the Times puts it, "seriously doubted by intelligence officials. (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-moussa28mar28,0,194701.story?coll=la-home-headlines)" It was also contradicted by the transcript testimony of captured 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheik Mohammed, who said Moussaoui was basically batty, and considered too unstable be included in the attacks (though on the list for a potential second-wave). Mohammed said Moussaoui didn't know anything about the plans and if he did they would have been changed after Moussaoui was arrested. As for Moussaoui's assertion that Richard Reid was supposed to join him on Sept. 11, the NYT points out that "previous investigations have provided no evidence (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/28/national/28moussaoui.html?_r=1&oref=slogin)" for that.

But, by all means, let's fry the guy if it makes us all feel like we're really doing something about the attacks on 9/11.