Teen Titans #34 *BIG HONKIN' SPOILERS*

[bfrank]

http://www.dccomics.com/media/covers/4982_180x270.jpg

Wonder Girl
Cyborg
Robin
Rose Wilson
Kid Devil

[protege]

Is there a link?

[bfrank]

dccomics.com

[Wannabe]

What are Kid Devil's powers by the way?

Overall, a pretty unimpressive lineup.

[Buried Alien]

No Kid Flash. No Changeling/Beast Boy. No Starfire. No Raven. No Superboy.

Somehow, the team seems...incomplete.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[bfrank]

No Kid Flash. No Changeling/Beast Boy. No Starfire. No Raven. No Superboy.

Somehow, the team seems...incomplete.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
They haven't shown the full cover for 35, but it looks like Raven's on the Doom Patrol with Changeling.....

[EZMOHR]

Is it just me, or is Vic getting a little long in the tooth to be a Teen Titan. I think it is time for Vic to get the call-up to the JLA Big Leagues.

[Young Avenger]

I agree with EZMOHR. Cyborg is too old to be with the Titans. Hes an experinced hero who paid his dues in the superhero community. It's time for him to join the JLA.

[kossori]

Cyborg was in the Justice League cartoons in the mid-to late '80s. Part of the Super Powers thing, along with Firestorm.

I think he should be promoted, too.

[Nick Kal]

Cyborg is a staple of the Titans Roster and he is more of a mentor now to the younger members. I like the diversity of age and his presence on the team is always welcomed.

That being said, the team does feel light. Superboy, Raven, Beast Boy & Kid Flash not there makes me sad.

Also, we don't know where Starfire or Donna Troy are at the moment...

[Justin D.]

Here's a bigger version.

http://dccomics.com/media/covers/4982_400x600.jpg

Also, here's a black and white version of the cover to issue 36 with Wonder Girl front and center.

http://images.comicbookresources.com/previews/dccomics/covers/teentitans36_pencils.jpg

That second picture comes from an interview with Tony Daniel on the front page of CBR.

I'm a little hesitant with Kid Devil being on the new team, but it is fun for this old school Blue Devil fan to see both BD and KD as regular characters in ongoing books. It looks like Willingham will bring back some of BD's original charm, but Johns seems to be taking KD quite far from his innocent kid roots from the looks of the character on the covers shown so far.

[Zeta]

Wow. Infinite Crisis sure killed a lot of Teen Titans characters. I'm kinda surprised there are any LEFT to be on the team.

[Meta 05]

I like the new titans lineup, it seems like a small yet still very diverse team.I really think this should as its member line up be a new team, with its own title spun off from titans. I think a true teen titans book should have more of its true core members on it.

I am mostly a Marvel reader up to OYL an just starting to endeavor into the DCU. I like what i have seen so far books with characterization and not just beat up the bad guys an flying thru the city.I have to give titans a try, i always found them interesting but never acctually was in a postion until recently to purchase a decent amount of comics each month.I hope to be adding this title to.

I have decided to keep both nightwing an robin on the pull for now an will collect any book they our often involved in.

[Nick Kal]

Thinking on it...

Titans East has been hinted at popping up.. somewhere, hasn't it?

Maybe a few more members will join this group then from the east.

[Zun Liako]

I'm sure Raven and Gar will be back, to much build up there for nothing

[bfrank]

Wow. Infinite Crisis sure killed a lot of Teen Titans characters. I'm kinda surprised there are any LEFT to be on the team.
3 titans died. I think you're reaching....

[Bat-Mite]

I'm sure Raven and Gar will be back, to much build up there for nothing

After the whole 'Speedy's super secret blue arrow' buildup that ended up in nothing... I am not particulary sure build up means much in Teen Titans.

[IPW]

Line up seems a little Lite to me.

Who is Kid Devil?

[Bat-Mite]

But... speaking about the new team. Well, surely not the most Star heavy Teen Titans team ever assembled, but I guess it is for the better: the other characters were not being used much.

I am not saying they suck, or that they have no use; I am just saying they were not being used. Who knows, maybe Geoff Johns didn't know what to do with them. I agree with whoever called the book "Robin and Superboy: Guest starring the Teen Titans(some times)". Hopefully, Geoff will find more things to do with the team he hand picked.

I mean... look at Speedy; she hardly did anything after that first story arc when she joined. I think there are pieces of furniture in Titans Tower that got the spotlight more often than her.

[Bat-Mite]

Who is Kid Devil?

The ex-sidekick of Blue Devil.

[stillanerd]

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/5990/ttitans5iw.jpg

Well, thanks to Lying in the Gutters, we knew that Ravager and Kid Devil were going to be on the team. Looks like the fallen statues are Superboy (who thanks to the recent Action Comics and the upcoming Detective Comics #818 is dead) Kid Flash (part of the vanished Speed Force apparently, but there's a still the possibility that he becomes the next Flash, meaning HE'S the Titan that graduates to the League) Beast Boy (the cover of Teen Titans #34 shows he's still around and probably part of the new Doom Patrol) and Starfire (who I'm really beginning to think is going to bite it sometime in the last two issues of Infinite Crisis, if she doesn't just remain in space.) And I agree, the team does feel a little underwhelming. Sort of like when we found out Arsenal wasn't part of the new roster of Outsiders (maybe he heads up Titans East?)

[Xephon23]

I'm failry new to DC. I was brought into the fold during Infinite Crisis. I'll definitely be picking up the OYL Titans book. I think the line-up looks very interesting and not over-powered.

I do hope Raven, Starfire, and Changeling join the Titans after a couple of stories with this new line up.

I'm particularly interested in Kid Devil. I like the way DC uses its magic heroes. I'm assuming this character will have black magic or something.

[Indefatigable]

I'm betting there's more members to come. Those five are probably the first we see, and over the next few months two or three more join or return.

[Super Sonic]

This is a very Outsider-ish team, no?


Also, I thought they were gonna make Cyborg look a little sleeker now, sorta like his animated/future version. o.O

[xnef1025]

Am I the only one that finds it funny that the Starfire statue is completly identifiable solely by the boobs :p

[Matt Algren]

I'm surprised there are only five. The Doom Patrol aren't getting their own book, are they? If not, it looks to me like they're going to be sharing space, which might account for the smallness of the team. Doom Patrol has, Gar and Raven; I'm not sure who else.

I am surprised that new Speedy isn't on the team. She just got there!

[Super Sonic]

I'm surprised there are only five. The Doom Patrol aren't getting their own book, are they? If not, it looks to me like they're going to be sharing space, which might account for the smallness of the team. Doom Patrol has, Gar and Raven; I'm not sure who else.

I am surprised that new Speedy isn't on the team. She just got there!





She's dead, well she hasn't been mentioned since the bombing in Star City....

[Agentum]

Is it just me, or is Vic getting a little long in the tooth to be a Teen Titan. I think it is time for Vic to get the call-up to the JLA Big Leagues.
Agree, after all he have been in that since the early 80s.

[LukeRed5]

She's dead, well she hasn't been mentioned since the bombing in Star City....

If this is true, I hope Arrowette joins the team.

Also, why does everyone hate Bart?

[Zeta]

Also, why does everyone hate Bart?

Bart was my favorite character.

And if you include former/potential Titans members on the death list of IC, it was basically a Titan massacre. Superboy, Flash, Speedy, Pantha, Bushido, Kid Flash, Baby Wildebeast (who I hated as a baby, but had potential to grow up into something interesting, someday), and Tempets. While not all of them are confirmed as dead, its safe to say most of them will be out of action for a while, I think.

At least Kid Devil looks sexy. I guess. And hell, if Judd Winnick is allowed near book, its only a matter of time before someone comes out.

And yeah, Cyborg needs to join the JLA as the new tech guy (which they haven't had since Steel quit, I think) or the Outsiders.

And yes, it would be damn nice to see Arrowette and Secret (or a new Secret) back.

[mohammedali]

I'm sure Raven and Gar will be back, to much build up there for nothing
They are going to be in the issue after. You can see BB on the cover, and Raven is an obvious siluet as well. Fear not, TT hasn't got rid of everyone so don't worry.

Mohammed Ali

[RabidWolfe]

My wife and I only really care about Raven, Beast Boy and Impulse/Kid Flash -

so if they're gone - well, sayanora Teen Titans.

Hopefully they'll be back. Please?

[Lex]

I can't say I find Ravager very interesting, but Kid Devil should be cool. I'm a little disappointed that it looks like Kid Devil is a human/demon hybrid instead of "kid in a tech suit with a trident" as he used to be. But I'll give it a chance.

Also, what's up with the elephany guy on the second cover? Is that Mammoth from the Fearsome Four/Five?

[Tennoarashi]

I love the refurbished Wonder Girl.

Apparently, Bumblebee will be getting major play as well. But Speedy isn't dead - her wherabouts will be revealed.

I like this team.

[Shem the Penman]

I can't say I find Ravager very interesting, but Kid Devil should be cool. I'm a little disappointed that it looks like Kid Devil is a human/demon hybrid instead of "kid in a tech suit with a trident" as he used to be. But I'll give it a chance.

I was wondering about that too -- BD turned more demonic after Underworld Unleashed, but I wasn't aware that anything similar had happened to KD. He looks like a red Nightcrawler.

[comicfreak]

and Tempets.
Tempest is dead? Say it ain't so! Not Tempest.

[Wannabe]

Also, I thought they were gonna make Cyborg look a little sleeker now, sorta like his animated/future version. o.O


It seems to me that all they did was change the blue lights to green ones. That's not really an upgrade at all.

[Lord Ichabod]

If speedy isn't there there's no reason for me to pick the book up. Ues she got no attention whatsoever but she's my favourite.

[xionice]

So when does DC Presents: The Return of Conner Kent come out???

[Lord Ichabod]

not soon enough. that's a huge problem for someone who hasn't read comic books in forever and is just getting back into during a damn crisis. All the characters I like are dead or being totally ignored or replaced or something

[longshot7]

I can't say I find Ravager very interesting, but Kid Devil should be cool. I'm a little disappointed that it looks like Kid Devil is a human/demon hybrid instead of "kid in a tech suit with a trident" as he used to be. But I'll give it a chance.

Also, what's up with the elephany guy on the second cover? Is that Mammoth from the Fearsome Four/Five?

I like Ravager a lot, but it does seem strange to not have her on the same team as Nightwing, considering he lured her from the dark side, and is sort of her mentor.

Starfire to the JLA. Raven and BB to the Doom Patrol (which sucks cuz I loved those characters, but I've always hated the Doom Patrol), Kid Flash - new Flash series?, and Superboy RIP. That one hurts.

[xionice]

The only person on the team I really like is Robin, and Wondergirl is ok, but the rest? C'mon! Cyborg needs to be bumped up to the Justice League or something, and kid devil and ravager???? WTF!!!!!! Doom Patrol with Gar and Raven on it sounds cool, and apparently Titans East is going to be full of retards, so what are we left with???? Robin! He already has his own book, which is sweet OYL by the way. Kid Flash will more than likely be The Flash now, and they killed off Superboy, who if you can tell from my avatar, is my favorite character. I will still be reading Teen Titans, because Geoff can tell some awesome stories, but like it was said before, this is an extremely weak line up. The only *heavy hitters* are Robin and Wondergirl. Not to mention we also lose the feeling of a mini-trinity. Point-blank, without Conner and Bart, this does not feel like Teen Titans. Hopefully, when #34 comes out, all doubts will be put to rest, but I'm disappointed at this point.......... :(

[handOFfate]

Also, why does everyone hate Bart?

Fans don't hate Bart. They hate what Johns has turned Bart into. In his Impulse days he was one of the most fun and unique characters in DC. But since the relaunch of Teen Titans Johns has slowly turned him into a Wally West clone. I think Johns was correct in maturing Bart a little, since it had to happen eventually. But he also shoved Bart (and Cassie, to a less extent) into the background in favor of Tim and Connor. That was what I had a problem with. I'll give the Teen Titans a few issues since i've generally liked the series, but it'll have to impress without Bart and Connor in the lineup. I do think Beast Boy and Raven will be back, though. I assume Starfire will still be alive, but not in the Titans since Johns had little use for her before.

[marvelboy2004]

So does the Crisis somehow wipe out the bleak future we saw in Teen Titans a wee whiley back? Cos' Superboy was alive and evil in that. The future Titans said that after the crisis, they all went their seperate ways which does seem to be happening... Although, he is a clone. Are there more Superboys out there that we just haven't seen?

[Bat-Mite]

I think Superboy had an evil twin called Match. He is still somewhere out there, unless he died while I wasn't paying attention.

[kane]

Hm, superboy and robin are the only ones i care about (and wonder girl as superboys girlfriend). Now Superboy is probably dead and Robin alone is not enough for me to buy the book. So i have to drop the titans.

Well, it was a fun read.

[UniqueFrequency]

i have to agree with what some people said, about the lineup not looking too impressive.

3 from the old team and 2 new members? (i'm not sure if red devil is new)

i'd have hoped for older members, in particular Argent. she's cool!

the only characters i care about are Robin and Wonder Girl. i always felt the old Young Justice kids were the new heart of the Titans.

no Bart, no Conner, no Garfield... hm.

[Argonaut]

I don't know if anyone has brought this up, but whatever happened to the Son of Vulcan. His mini-series ended with him standing at the door to Titans Tower. I was kind of hoping that he would be one of those new OYL characters.

[Kon-L]

not soon enough. that's a huge problem for someone who hasn't read comic books in forever and is just getting back into during a damn crisis. All the characters I like are dead or being totally ignored or replaced or something

Same here!

[The Lucky One]

Is it just me, or is Vic getting a little long in the tooth to be a Teen Titan. I think it is time for Vic to get the call-up to the JLA Big Leagues.

To be honest, I think it's the exact opposite... maybe it's just because I was rereading the last few issues of Young Justice this weekend, but I couldn't help thinking, "These characters really belong together in a lighthearted title, not shoehorned into yet another melodramatic team book because of a now-cancelled cartoon." Cyborg, Raven, Nightwing, Starfire, Beast Boy- they'll always be Titans, whether they're "teen" or not, and they should be. But Tim, Bart, Cassie, Kon, Cissie, Greta, Anita, Slobo... they had something different, something unique; now they just feel like hangers-on to another legacy. I gave it three years, but nothing so far has really changed that feeling in me; we'll see if having Tim back in charge will do it, but I dunno.

Well, if nothing else, Kid Devil has the potential to be interesting... haven't read much with him, but he seemed like quite the wisecracker in his couple of issues in YJ.

"You're Hardrock? Awesome! Love your cafe!"

-D

[AceOfSpades]

No Kid Flash. No Changeling/Beast Boy. No Starfire. No Raven. No Superboy.

Somehow, the team seems...incomplete.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I agree.. especially since Raven is my favorite character and starfire is a close second

[Angel of Sorrow]

I like how they gave atleast a small hint of bringing in Kid Devil.
In issue 30, he was shown in the graveyard, I believe reading the Captain Carrot comic and looking at an old picture of him and Blue right before a horde of demons came from the ground beneath him. Which will probably be the reason why he looks do demonish. Something must have happened in the graveyard that altered him.

[Effect]

Question about Titans East?

Were they in the comics before or is this a case of where something from the animated univese gets put into the comic universe?

Reason I'm asking is that that when I read the talk about it it came off as if Titans East was a new thing or situation so makes me wonder which one actually came first? The comic version and they are just bringing back or the animated Teen Titans version which had Bumblebee(leader), Aqualad, Speedy(male), Mas & Menos as members.

Just wondering. Thanks.

[Matt Algren]

Question about Titans East?

Were they in the comics before or is this a case of where something from the animated univese gets put into the comic universe?

Reason I'm asking is that that when I read the talk about it it came off as if Titans East was a new thing or situation so makes me wonder which one actually came first? The comic version and they are just bringing back or the animated Teen Titans version which had Bumblebee(leader), Aqualad, Speedy(male), Mas & Menos as members.

Just wondering. Thanks.
That I know of, there is no current Titans East. There was one in the Future storyline, but not one now. Also, Mas and Menos don't exist in the current DCU.

[glennsim]

Heh. Maybe Cyborg is like one of those guys who shows up for the Friday night high school football game every week, wearing his old letter jacket, for the rest of his life. Always reliving his best years, never quite ready to move on...

[Angel of Sorrow]

Question about Titans East?

Were they in the comics before or is this a case of where something from the animated univese gets put into the comic universe?

Reason I'm asking is that that when I read the talk about it it came off as if Titans East was a new thing or situation so makes me wonder which one actually came first? The comic version and they are just bringing back or the animated Teen Titans version which had Bumblebee(leader), Aqualad, Speedy(male), Mas & Menos as members.

Just wondering. Thanks.

Actually, there is a possibly there was.
There was a Titans. L.A., which I believe East was based on because technically, L.A. is east of San Francisco. And seeing that they decided to go with unnamed cities, they probably changed L.A. to East.

If I recall, L.A. consisted of:
BumbleBee
Herald
Beast Boy
Flamebird
'Hero' Cruz
Terra II
Captain Marvel Jr.
Bushido [One of my favorite, bastard Superboy Prime!]

[xionice]

Unless this is the *GREATEST* Aprils Fools joke ever
Conner is officially dead. I am not happy :( , but also realize that his death can mean only one thing:

DC Comics Presents: The Return of Conner Kent

more than likely as the much talked about and disputed Supernova

Now if only this weak line up will do??? Gotta wait til Wednesday I guess...


The Attachment contains the Variant Cover for #34 :cool:

[Zeta]

There was a Titans. L.A., which I believe East was based on because technically, L.A. is east of San Francisco. And seeing that they decided to go with unnamed cities, they probably changed L.A. to East.

If I recall, L.A. consisted of:
BumbleBee
Herald
Beast Boy
Flamebird
'Hero' Cruz
Terra II
Captain Marvel Jr.
Bushido [One of my favorite, bastard Superboy Prime!]

Originally, the Teen Titans were based in New York. But then Beast Boy moved back to California and tried to stary a Titans East.

For the show, the Teen Titans started out based in Jump City (read: San Francisco) but then Titans West started up in Steel City (read: New York City).

[Angel of Sorrow]

Originally, the Teen Titans were based in New York. But then Beast Boy moved back to California and tried to stary a Titans East.

For the show, the Teen Titans started out based in Jump City (read: San Francisco) but then Titans West started up in Steel City (read: New York City).

You mean Titans West.
Which was redubbed Titans L.A.

And I didn't know Gotham was is New York.
If it's not, the first was on the outskirts of Gotham, and they didn't move to New York until they got Gabriel's Horn.

[Forsaken_One]

You might want to use spoiler tags ([spoil ] and [/spoil ] without the spaces) in this topic. There's no spoiler warning beyond the issue number and not everyone will immediately notice that it's a future issue.

[Xothermic]

Unless this is the *GREATEST* Aprils Fools joke ever, Conner is officially dead.

Well, I was going to find out sooner or later. I was stupid for clicking on this thread. I blame myself. :(

[Xothermic]

[
Cyborg
Robin


It's weird seeing no Super Boy or Beast Boy but at least my two favorites are still there.

[glennsim]

On Titans East vs West - the simple version.

In the Teen Titans series of the 60's, 70's, 80's, and 90's, ending with the "The Titans" series, the Titans always had a headquarters on the East Coast. At various times, characters would start a group on the West Coast, which would get called Teen Titans West.

Now that the default main team is based in San Francisco, on the West Coast, any new team on the East coast would have to have the extended name, and thus would be Teen Titans East.

My theory here is that the Doom Patrol is going to be considered a separate team, but very closely associated with the Teen Titans, as much as a Titans East team would be. Possibly closer than the Outsiders are.

[west3man]

http://www.dccomics.com/media/covers/4982_180x270.jpg

Wonder Girl
Cyborg
Robin
Rose Wilson
Kid Devil
I'm gonna rag on you so much for saying "honkin'."

[west3man]

Cyborg was in the Justice League cartoons in the mid-to late '80s. Part of the Super Powers thing, along with Firestorm.
Ahh, memories.

[Supes35]

I don't think Johns was behind Superboy dying. I think this is Dan Didio's doing, more than anything.

It seems DD is so determined to bring back the old crisis stuff, that he's willing to alienate people who've been fans for 20 years. He can't have his cake and eat it too.

That's why I don' think Steel is going to make it out of '52' alive and why I still don't think Power Girl is safe, regardless of what they say.

IMO, all of this is going to backfire on DC in a major way. If the Supergirl title does not do well in a couple years, than DC will have to listen to the fans and bring back Superboy.

As for Bart, I am still pissed that he's gone. Another bad move by DC. He was one of the better characters in the book and those folks at DC still got rid of him.

I am all for him being the new Flash, but I don't think he's quite ready for that, yet. He still needs more development which is why I think he needs to be back. Same with Conner.

As for Wonder Girl, I would not be surprised if DC builds up her character, only to kill her off in a couple years. I mean, there are rumors that Cassie goes dark OYL which is a result of her deal with Ares. If that's true, than I wouldn't be surprised if that happens.

[spEEdy]

Just like West3Man..said.....MEMORIES!!!


Can someone name all the members of the Brotherhood as seen on the cover...??

[bfrank]

I'm gonna rag on you so much for saying "honkin'."
perfect....I was just going to post a note to the mods, asking them to reedit that, as I would never say something as stupid as "honkin'"....SPOILER was more than enough.....

[Paul Newell]

Heh...I changed it to that on xionices thread before merging...Unfortunately, when it merges, it relabels whoever started the thread to the the writer of the earliest post.

So it's not your "Honkin'", bfrank. :)

[Nick Kal]

Just to let you all know I read #34 and it was amazing. The team isn't quite what the cover reveals it to be. In fact, it's really just the team in this issue... sort of. Wonder Girl is an exception.. and as you read you will see that Cyborg has something planned.

[xionice]

THAT WAS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

Robin has assumed the mantle of Godd@mn Robin! The reveal at the end, him trying to clone Conner!! JOY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And the shirt and jeans in the case like Jason Todd's! GENIUS!!!!!!!! Why did I doubt Geoff???????

So my speculation begins now: do Cyborg, Robin, and Wondergirl take hold of the team with a *new* Superboy(or Nova) and get back Gar? Or what.... I don't even know.... I'm just happy, and that variant cover is AWESOME. Payed $10 for it but still, well worth it.

Thoughts?

[The Lucky One]

And I didn't know Gotham was is New York.

It's not. Gotham is in New Jersey.

-D

[Modi]

I agree with EZMOHR. Cyborg is too old to be with the Titans. Hes an experinced hero who paid his dues in the superhero community. It's time for him to join the JLA.

my thoughts exactly, he should be the guy who fixes the moonbase and supplies the JLA with equipment.

[Nick Kal]

my thoughts exactly, he should be the guy who fixes the moonbase and supplies the JLA with equipment.

As opposed to guiding a group of younger heroes on mission and actually doing something worth his time?

[Murrocko]

Awesome issue. Robin was badass and the new costume looked great (He looks like a twelve year old in his book). This is one of the best OYL titles thus far.

[xionice]

I just wanna know when Jim Lee will be drawing it :D

[Murrocko]

Hell yeah. Maybe for the cover of IC#7. Why would he be on the cover with his OYL costume, I dunno, but it could work. :D

[Supes35]

Robin is trying to re-clone Conner. Man, I did not see that coming at all. I guess this is the secret under the Titans tower that everyone's been talking about. IMO, it makes for a good story arc.

I think its safe to say that Wonder Girl is on her way to becoming a darker character. Its to be expected, since Superboy's death obviously hit her the hardest.

[xionice]

If they clone him, then they would need to have Raven find his soul, so that could hail a return for Raven, Conner, and Cassie (b/c of Conner) back into the Titans. Considering how weak the line-up is right now, thats all I can assume. And did I miss Robin's relationship with Ravager being mentioned???

[xionice]

Oh, and if Robin brings him back, he should have the Kingdom Come "S", that would be sweet.....

[EZMOHR]

Wait how come no one has mentioned the big thing in this issue so far. I mean, yeah they're coning Conner, and yeah Cyborg was "dead" for like a year, but if you were a Superfriends Fan, the big reveal was the two honorary Titans that fixed Cyborg............................................ ..............























WENDY & MARVIN. That was awesome!!!

[Murrocko]

WENDY & MARVIN. That was awesome!!!
The Wonder Twins?


If Conner's really dead, who's this Supernova character going to be?

[EZMOHR]

The Wonder Twins?


If Conner's really dead, who's this Supernova character going to be?


No Wendy and Marvin helped out the Superfriends before the Wonder Twins I think. Can't really remember if it was before or after the Wonder Twins.

[Barrister]

I just recently started reading the book on someone's recommendation, but I've never read any Titans title before except JLA/Titans that came out in 1998 or so. Anywho, if anyone can answer these here questions, I'll be much obliged:

1. Have Wendy & Marvin ever appeared in the DCU before? What are they, like the Ted Kord circa JLA:Year One of the New Teen Titans?

2. Page 2, Panel 4: who, besides Hawk, Dove, and Speedy are these people? Is the Zatara seen there the son of Zatanna and Constantine from Kingdom Come? Same thing with the stretchy guy? What about that girl with underwater powers?

I hope that wasn't too confusing to read. I don't know if spoilers are necessary anymore.

I thought this was a decent issue. Did anyone else catch the poster for "Superman: A Retrospective at IMAX Theatres" on the trolley-car? Glad to see even insignificant events in OYL are connected through different titles. Good times.

[EZMOHR]

Well, the Underwater Girl was the new Aquagirl that was introduced under Arcudi's run during Aquaman. She was I think an inhabitant of Sub Diego that latched on to Arthur and became Aquagirl.

I don't remember W & M being in DCU before, but I've only read a lot of DC comics the last 4 years so.....

Yeah, the Zatara thing was a bit confusing, and so was Plastic Kid. I just guess that maybe Plastic Man's son may have some of his powers.

[Barrister]

Yeah, the Zatara thing was a bit confusing, and so was Plastic Kid. I just guess that maybe Plastic Man's son may have some of his powers.

It totally, totally was. Although, after reading Infinite Crisis #6 (THERE BE SPOILERS AHEAD!!!), with all the shards joining together with the New Earth, maybe parts of Kingdom Come have been melded with current continuity. So, for instance, Plastic Lad would be around now instead of popping up for the first time in the Kingdom Come future timeline.

Although, that would mean that Zatanna and Constantine would have had to procreate a looonnnggg time ago for this Zatarra to be their son.

[Zero Hunter]

I am just wondering how Hawk and Dove got their powers back. It is nice that we now know Speedy is still alive. I am asuming that the other member is Offspring the son of Plasic Man from the Kingdom one shot.

I may have misread it but when Wendy and Marvin mentioned their dad did they mean Will Magnus the creator of the Metal Men was their father?

After a few misteps in the last 6 months or so this book kicked off OYL with a total 10 on the fun meter. And between the bits with Hawk, Dove, Zatara, Aquagirl, Speedy, Beast Boy, Offspring(?),Raven, Cyborg, Wonder Girl, Robin, Bumblebee, Ravenger, Kid Devil, and even a mention of Mal Duncan we saw a whole lot of Titans in this one.

The statue of Conner was a nice touch too. I know we will have to wait for the the new Flash series to find out what happened to Bart, but he was about the only thing I really missed seeing in this issue.

[lucifernomi]

Good issue, good art, great writing, and Kid Devil was a very pleasent breadth of fresh air. Some concerns though:

Why on Earth(or rather New Earth) did Cassie adopt Conner's fashion sense???

Vic is being a huge snob and starting to muscle in on leadership of the Titans. Robin's supposed to be the leader, but I can't imagine Vic standing for that, and that means drama and dark days ahead for the team.

Robin secretly clonning Conner is certainly interesting, but the whole thing seems way to dark and perverse for a kid like Tim. I'm worried that all the death around him has sent him off the deep end. The last thing I want is for Robin to become the hated, distrustful, exessively tortured character that Batman turned into pre-IC. Anyone else agree?

[jerrymcl89]

I haven't read this issue yet, but Robin doesn't seem too dark or tortured in the other books he's appearing in.

[Wannabe]

my thoughts exactly, he should be the guy who fixes the moonbase and supplies the JLA with equipment.

Wait, can Cyborg invent stuff? I've never seen him work with tech other than his own.

I have a feeling that Robin was lying about what he did in his year off. Maybe he was chilling with Luthor.

And with Marvin & Wendy in this issue, and the Wonder Twins mentioned in Teen Titans Annual, are there plans for a Superfriends: One Year Later?

[lucifernomi]

I have a feeling that Robin was lying about what he did in his year off. Maybe he was chilling with Luthor.

Not likely. Here are very telling quotes from Robin #148(OYL):

BATMAN: Does this have anything to do with why you dissapeared on Dick and me in Budapest?

Robin: Listen, this whole last year was supposedly about us building trust, you, me, and Dick.

That being said, I'm sure he spent some time with Luther too behind the scenes, but he wasn't completely lying.

[Michael P]

Yeah, the Zatara thing was a bit confusing, and so was Plastic Kid. I just guess that maybe Plastic Man's son may have some of his powers.
He does, as revealed in the JLA issue where he was introduced.

[Michael P]

Yeah, the Zatara thing was a bit confusing, and so was Plastic Kid. I just guess that maybe Plastic Man's son may have some of his powers.
He does, as revealed in the JLA issue where he was introduced.

[Vicious X Assassin]

Great issue, really liked the art in this issue. Though even after this issue I have to question Ravagers loyalty to the team, I mean she kind of distracted the team at the part when the team met Wonder Girl, and allowed Madame Russe(sp) (that was who it was wasnt it?) to get away during that.

Though a question that I have to wonder about now, I take it Bumble Bee is the Titan that went with Beastboy to the Doom Patrol, right? (The Titan that is said to join the DP)... so if thats true we know Raven is not on Doom Patrol... so I have to wonder where she(Raven) is now? Still hoping for DP, but seems highly unlikely now. Also while Im talking about those two (BB and Rav); any guesses as to exactly what they were referring to early on in the issue (the feelings thing) what were their feelings then; and what caused them to change?

*EDIT - After reading the next issues description, referring to - "Plus, wait until you see which former Titans are involved with the new Doom Patrol — and why!" - There might still be a change for her being on DP.

I kinda have to agree with other posters, Robin probably talked to Luthor sometime during the One Year thing.

Also like the idea someone mentioned earlier about if Conner is brought back that it could pave the way for the return of Raven, in finding Conners soul.

[Meta 05]

Yeah this is my introduction to a Teen titans book for the first time that wasn't crises related, i thought it would gve me a better idea of whats going on, an how the book usually is written.I loved it, its much darker then the Marvel Teen books
((New X-men/Young Avengers))

It has alot of Darkness I don't see from other titles in the same slot.I like the OYL mysterys an there seem like there our a few showing up in this book as well.I am definatly keeping it.

Someone along this thread speculated that because of the writer now working on it that there would be a gay char,i don't see why that couldn't end up being Kid Devil .He looks pretty cool to IMO

[Nate Grey]

The bit at the end with Robin trying to clone another Suberboy at the end seemed kinda dark, creepy, and perverse to me. In any case, he's doing something wrong or else he wouldn't be on attempt #97. The only one smart enough to clone Superboy is the one who did it the first time: Luthor. He made his own DNA sample mimic the traits of Kryptonian DNA so it would fuse to true Kryptonian DNA. Trying to clone Kryptonian DNA outright leads to failure (Bizarro) because there's "gaps" humans can't replicate, so this fills in those gaps nicely. But Robin's not Luthor and he doesn't know this. He thinks he can just make another Conner by taking two samples of Superman and Luthor each and bonding them with a protein link.

One of two things could happen:
1: Robin succeeds only in creating a Superboy Bizarro.
2: Robin gets Raven to shove Conner's soul into Match.

The first scenario seems more likely to me, though.

As for Cyborg's place on the team? Well, since they're TEEN Titans, I would kinda like an adult watching over them in some capacity, and since Cyborg's almost in this 30s, I think...

Wendy and Marvin? Where's El Dorado? Seriously, I'd like to see DC somehow put him in continuity. And to bring back Manitou Raven while they're at it...and somehow introduce Downpour and Shifter, and maybe Wind Dragon. :cool:

Who's Gemini? Any chance she's one of Plastic's long lost kids? Speaking of which, that Plastic Lad/Offspring snippit...I thought Plastic Man's son was retconned into being a brainwashed Martian Manhunter? In any case, I'd love to see explanations on these characters. Especially Zatara and "Miss Martian". Did Martian Manhunter somehow have a daughter and this is forshadowing?

This was a great, well, forshadowing issue. I actually hate this new lineup (except Wendy and Marvin :cool: ), but Johns made the story so interesting I'll keep following anyway.

[lucifernomi]

1: Robin succeeds only in creating a Superboy Bizarro.


Wow... I think I just drooled a little on the keyboard. I don't really want Conner to be re-clonned because it raises the question of why they don't just clone every dead hero and re-insert their soul, but having a Bizarro Conner appear as a consequence of Tim's attempts to "play Source" would be fantastic!

[Angel of Sorrow]

Only Gemini in Teen Titans I can think of was bad.
And was Madam Rouge's daughter.

[xionice]

Either way of cloning or whatever, Conner *will* be back. I know some people don't like the return of Jason Todd, but if he can come back from the dead, then Conner *will not* be dead for long....

[UniqueFrequency]

Either way of cloning or whatever, Conner *will* be back. I know some people don't like the return of Jason Todd, but if he can come back from the dead, then Conner *will not* be dead for long....

i wonder how different he'll be when he's back. after all Robin might be able to clone him, but how about his brains and memories?

[Nate Grey]

I still think he's Supernova. The thing is, I don't think DC can use the name Superboy anymore. Something about a case with the widow and daughter of one of Superman's creators...

[Barrister]

i wonder how different he'll be when he's back. after all Robin might be able to clone him, but how about his brains and memories?

I bet he'll come out with an earring and a leather jacket, talk all "radical," then head to the beaches on Maui and start shredding waves and getting laid. Just like he did when he first appeared! Only this time, as theorized above, BIZARRO STYLE!

[BoosterBronze]

I'm off Titans with this issue. They took away all the characters I cared about. I need that money to buy the new Secret Six series, so I fondly bid the New New New Teen Titans adieu.

[UniqueFrequency]

I still think he's Supernova. The thing is, I don't think DC can use the name Superboy anymore. Something about a case with the widow and daughter of one of Superman's creators...

i think that issue is over Smallville.. not sure if it extends to Superboy in the comics...

[hoopoe]

I was so happy to see TEENAGERS in the lineup. The book's title finally makes sense to me.

I'm sorry but Raven, Starfire, Changeling are all too long-in-the tooth to be on the "Teen" Titans. Starfire will pop up again on some adult line-up - perhaps JLA.

I have a feeling they brought Vic back to help jumpstart the issue, but he's going to in the JLA by the summer, I'm sure.

I guess Wendy and Marvin are the first evidence of the random earths being crunched together into "New Earth."

Of the OYL titles, this one certainly was one of the best.

[Wannabe]

I bet he'll come out with an earring and a leather jacket, talk all "radical," then head to the beaches on Maui and start shredding waves and getting laid. Just like he did when he first appeared! Only this time, as theorized above, BIZARRO STYLE!

We can only hope. Honestly, Superboy was about the lamest character ever when he first came out.

Although for a while I was hoping his T-shirt got destroyed so he'd grab the jacket. Just so villains could make fun of it.

[Zero Hunter]

See I don't think Vic is ever going to the JLA. The Titans in all their incarnations are his home and the team his family. He seems to have a very real interest in helping the younger kids out and helping them not to make some of the mistakes he did as a kid. Even if he is the only one of the old guard left I still don't see him leaving. He see it as his duty to safeguard the kids and the Titans name.

[Nessor Sille]

If Tim finally makes a viable clone of Kon, anyone else want the all-new, all-different Kon to take "Black Zero" as his new codename?

It'd echo a certain older story... ;)

[sly_kat]

i just thought of this... but since Tim is trying to clone Connor... and at the end of Infinite Crisis #6, Connor is missing a hand, and Alex is missing a finger, perhaps hes trying to clone him based off that... but then once he clones him, hell come back without memories (ie... a soul), and for those who read Teen Titans know that not long ago they do an arc about Connor indeed having a soul (making sure we all knew)... Perhaps with the clone hes going to have Raven see if she cant latch onto his soul to make the clone, really Connor... which would be an awesome and could happen for an arc... but the big twist i figure would be with the whole cloning process, is that with the final finish of the clone and Raven attempting to latch the soul to the figure, she finds out his soul isnt anywhere to be found... When in fact sumone else had cloned him already, and since then he has been in the shadows as the character Supernova, watcha guys think?:D

[titanfan]

Who's Gemini? Any chance she's one of Plastic's long lost kids

No, she's Madame Rouge's daughter. Introduced in the Beast Boy mini-series.

For the people that don't like the roster--I wouldn't worry about it too much. There's clearly been a lot of instability on the team the past year--tons of members coming and going. I do think that many of the old members will be back when things finally settle down.

[lucifernomi]

i just thought of this... but since Tim is trying to clone Connor... and at the end of Infinite Crisis #6, Connor is missing a hand, and Alex is missing a finger, perhaps hes trying to clone him based off that

That's hardly necessary. Tim already has samples of both Lex Luthor and Conner Kent blood. That's how he figured out that they were genetically related back in the beginning of the series.

And didn't Alex's finger blow up in space? I'm pretty sure it just stayed out there in the center of the universe, until the whole thing blew up.

[X-Ray]

OK I am not as hard core as most of you guys when its comes to the Titans, I only read once in awhile when comics was slow. I did get the last first TPB and it was cool..ok. I didn't like the Impluse turning into Kid Flash well more I hated the yellow Flash outfit. I like the idea of Beast but I don't need him when I got Hank McCoy. I like Raven, Robin, Cyborg, and Conner Kent who I liked a lot because he is a clone child and that's got to be hard enough to live with. But I did pick up on them a few spots throughout IC. I liked the Cassie and Conner love scene, well done. I saw my folks when I saw the Kents how they was cool about the whole barn deal. That how I lost mine. (TMI)

I read IC # 6 and saw that Conner might be died but I chalked that up to cliffhanger. I like Conner Kent, I was looking forward to him becoming the next Super Man. So wasn't worried.

Then I pick-up Titans OYL and my jaw drops at the sight of Conner Kent Memorial. Come on!! (-) That's my man why DC kill him of all people, for crying out loud!!! But at least there is a thread of hope from the end of # 34 (+) and if Tim brings back Conner I will be a big fan. I am waiting for DC to do that one thing that will wim me back to DC from Marvel.


Well DC is getting closer to winning me over, Marvin and Wendy of the Super Friends??????? (++)That's so cool how they was brought in. And from what I read they haven't been in DCU yet so IS THIS THEIR BIG DEBUT?

Oh my damb!!! Hell Yeah!!! And a mention of Doc Magnus too? (+)
And the twins maybe connected to the Metal Men? I loved the Metal Men when I was a kid.

I awakening of Vic was a nice intro, better than the other OYL titles. Hell This is the best OYL debut book so far. (+) JSA wasn't bad but Titans just got a spot in my pull list for awhile.

I think the team looks very well but I need Conner back to feel better if not in Titans in the JLA or solo book something.

I always loved the Deathstroke / Ravager colors so this another plus. (+) I'm not much on devils but Kid Devil, though I know little of him at least seems ok, I'll take him over Kid Flash and Beast. (+)

Now, at first look at the cover I wasnt sure on Robin's new look but after seeing him in the book, it's not all that bad, I like the look, and I usually hate the underware on the outside but for some reason he looks good. No I am not gay but I'm OK with myself to say if a guy looks good and Robin / Tim Drake looks sharp. (+)

What a kick from this Gemini girl on Cassie, damn. Does this make Gemini one of the most sought after girls in all comics or what? I mean one night with Gemini and ......sorry back to my review. :) (+)

Speaking of Wonder Girl, it's amazing how jeans and an iconic tank top can look so good, I love Diana but this new girl isnt bad either. (+)


I give the cover (+) too. So in all thats a 10 out of 11 fom me. That's the highest I have rated a book in some time. If Conner was still alive then it would have been perfect.

[X-Ray]

Again is this Wendy and Marvin's debut in DC comics and just wondering what is the status on Zan and Zaina and Gleek and for that matter where is Wendy and Marvin's dog at anyway?

[Nate Grey]

Again is this Wendy and Marvin's debut in DC comics and just wondering what is the status on Zan and Zaina and Gleek and for that matter where is Wendy and Marvin's dog at anyway?

I've seen online Zan and Jayna ARE in DCU continuity, appearing in the defunct Extreme Justice series in issue #9 (not sure about beyond) and near the end of Young Justice.

[Lex]

This was an interesting issue. My favorite part was Cyborg/Ravager meeting. "Hey, look at that, he remembers me... oh crap! He remembers me!" Heh.

The pannel with Zatara, Hawk, Dove and Aquagirl must reference something Geoff has mentioned about 52. Apparently over the missing year the Titans will go through several massive roster changes. We'll probably have to pick up 52 to find out what happened to them.

I hope Wendy and Marvin don't become annoying. A cameo once in a while is cool, but I hope Geoff doesn't over do it.

The Titans OYL aren't quite as interesting as I hoped they would be. Hopefully they'll get more interesting as things go on.He does, as revealed in the JLA issue where he was introduced.No no no. In Plastic Man's ongoing series (issues #8-9) it was revealed that his son was actually a hiccup in the timeline caused by the Time Trapper. So Plas never had a son. But he does have an adopted daughter who doesn't have any super powers... except when she was the Spectre's host for a few minutes before being brought back to life. :D

[Zero Hunter]

The Titans OYL aren't quite as interesting as I hoped they would be. Hopefully they'll get more interesting as things go on.No no no. In Plastic Man's ongoing series (issues #8-9) it was revealed that his son was actually a hiccup in the timeline caused by the Time Trapper. So Plas never had a son. But he does have an adopted daughter who doesn't have any super powers... except when she was the Spectre's host for a few minutes before being brought back to life. :D

Isn't the Plastic Man series considered out of continutity though? I know the issue of Billy Batson dying are and just thought the whole series was. I have never really seen anything that ties that book to the DCU proper.

[Kid Seven]

Really enjoyed this issue. After being onboard since the beginning, the last year and a half has really gotten me uninterested in the book, from the 'we're guests in our own book' issues to the Rob Liefeld issues (which were late to boot!) to the last couple which just struck me as a little phoned in, I said to myself that if the OYL issue wasn't up to snuff that I would drop the book.

They've got me on board now. This issue was great! Love the new Robin costume. Interested in the new team. Great moments all around. A little mystery at the end. Good stuff. (Also, though not 'new' I'm loving the new approach that Tony Daniels is taking with his art.)

[Kid Seven]

Isn't the Plastic Man series considered out of continutity though? I know the issue of Billy Batson dying are and just thought the whole series was. I have never really seen anything that ties that book to the DCU proper.

Sounds like an issue of 'Superboy punching something' if I ever heard one...

By the way, it might just be me, but I like to picture Superboy hitting Rob Liefeld to affect changes in reality. That's just me though...

[Deathstroke]

I love how they made Wonder Girl have anger issues with her feelings of being abandoned.

I wonder if they will have her have any dealings with Arrowette.

I had planned to drop the title, but with Ravager in the book, I just have to pick it up.

[steve2275]

daniels +1yl=my newest dc ongoing

[Psychoweasel]

Isn't the Plastic Man series considered out of continutity though? I know the issue of Billy Batson dying are and just thought the whole series was. I have never really seen anything that ties that book to the DCU proper.

I totally disregard the recent Plastic Man series as a fever dream Plas had one night after inhaling too many stale Yoo-Hoos.

Any series that ends their first story arc like they did deserves to be disregarded. Over 5 issues they killed off Woozy Winks, buried him, ruined Plastic Man's life, and sent him groveling back to the monastery he recuperated in...only to then resolve the entire storyarc and bring Woozy back in ONE PAGE with a pat answer that even Liefeld wouldn't use without flinching.

It stank. Plastic Man's kid was the best thing to come out of Kelly's run on JLA. Glad Johns thinks so too.

[Bat-Mite]

Any series that ends their first story arc like they did deserves to be disregarded. Over 5 issues they killed off Woozy Winks, buried him, ruined Plastic Man's life, and sent him groveling back to the monastery he recuperated in...only to then resolve the entire storyarc and bring Woozy back in ONE PAGE with a pat answer that even Liefeld wouldn't use without flinching.


Wow! You might almost think it was a comedy where anything could happen and not the serious respectful title Plastic Man deserves.

[stealthwise]

It stank. Plastic Man's kid was the best thing to come out of Kelly's run on JLA. Glad Johns thinks so too.

Yeah, Jim Carrey-lite as a deadbeat dad was a great idea...

[Psychoweasel]

Wow! You might almost think it was a comedy where anything could happen and not the serious respectful title Plastic Man deserves.

WOW! You might think that even lighthearted comedies have to follow the basic rules of writing, and not use a cop-out for the resolution of a 6-issue storyline. :rolleyes:

And if you recall, the overall storyline WAS pretty darn "serious" up to that point with Plas being a wanted criminal, Woozy having died in a furnace, Woozy's mother slapping Plas at the funeral, the blonde FBI agent shooting Plas, officers, and the Police Chief, the JLA disbarring Plas, and Plas almost dying in the back of a Police car! Heavy stuff for a "lighthearted comedy".

To give away the ending; it was revealed that the monks Plas recuperated with in his origin were secretly SUPER POWERED with abilities mimicking the Fantastic Four. Their leader was a 'mystic monk' who, with a wave of his hand, brought back Woozy from the dead. The murderess was forgiven by all simply because she apologized, and they all decided to be friends. :eek: :confused:

It is a comedy, that I know and expected. But the story didn't make ANY effort to be lighthearted until that last issue...it was as if someone in editorial saw it and said; "Uh, this is WAAAAY too dark. Lighten it up, NOW." The resolution was a pat cop-out that ruined the good story that came before it.

Yeah, Jim Carrey-lite as a deadbeat dad was a great idea...

Actually, yeah it WAS. It not only validated the ONLY good one-shot to come out of 'The Kingdom' mini-series, it also gave Plas a LOT more depth as a character. And as for the 'Jim Carrey' bit, that was how Grant Morrison made the character, not Kelly. I would think twice about speaking bad about Morrison if I were you...he has hitmen. :eek:

[Bat-Mite]

You might think that even lighthearted comedies have to follow the basic rules of writing,

You might, but you would be insanely wrong. Comedies don't have to follow anything, not even logic. It's like complaining that 'Airplane' sucked because "When my dad was in the air force, he never had to give a blowjob to the auto-pilot! That makes no sense!"

The whole point of the story going serious for a bit, and then everything ending in a completely silly way WAS the joke.

[Psychoweasel]

You might, but you would be insanely wrong. Comedies don't have to follow anything, not even logic.

There's a name for comedies like that. "LAME". :rolleyes:

Comedy is humorous as it pokes fun at set conventions, thus it must follow a set guideline/framework to base itself off of. A political joke about a mailman isn't as funny as the same joke about President Bush. Even comedy has a logic to it. Anything else is unfunny happenstance.

You may have been thinking of 'madcap' comedy, which this wasn't. There's a difference between a 'madcap' comedy and a 'lighthearted' comedy. Just as there's a difference between having a 'GOOD' ending and a 'BAD' ending. This was a 'BAD' ending.

It's like complaining that 'Airplane' sucked because "When my dad was in the air force, he never had to give a blowjob to the auto-pilot! That makes no sense!"

It's nothing of the sort. But let's use 'Airplane' as an example, shall we? Airplane was a 'GOOD' comedy with a good ending that wasn't a total cop out. If it had ended like Plastic Man's arc did, here's how the ending would have changed;

Ted Striker: Surely you can't be serious.
Rumack: I am serious... and you called me Shirley! You guessed the secret word and I can use my magic powers! Now I'll wave my hand *POOF!* and the airplane has landed safely!
Ted Striker: WOW!
Rumack: I'll wave it again *PAAF!*, and now the crew is fine and Elaine loves you again!
Elaine Dickinson: Oh Ted, I lurve you!
Ted Striker: YAYS! Let's get ice cream!
Everyone: YAY!
THE END.

I GUARANTEE the movie would have TANKED opening day...and the only ones who would have thought it was funny would have been pretentious film fans who suck cigarettes, wear stained berets and mutter on and on about how the director was a 'misunderstood genius' while sipping weak lattes through their thin goatees. :)

The whole point of the story going serious for a bit, and then everything ending in a completely silly way WAS the joke.

It was a LAME joke, and not definitely not a payoff to the reader. I want my money back! :mad:

[Cayman]

The appearance of Zatara and Offspring(?) is really interesting. Curious what the story is behind that. Maybe Zatara is now Zatanna's brother?

Cay

[Tom]

I'm more interested in the reference to "Miss Martian." I wonder if J'Onn got his wife or daughter back in the new reality.

[Cayman]

I'm more interested in the reference to "Miss Martian." I wonder if J'Onn got his wife or daughter back in the new reality.

Maybe J'Onn just enjoys being a teenage girl.

Cay

[Bat-Mite]

Comedy is humorous as it pokes fun at set conventions, thus it must follow a set guideline/framework to base itself off of. A political joke about a mailman isn't as funny as the same joke about President Bush. Even comedy has a logic to it. Anything else is unfunny happenstance.

You are trying to make up some rules for comedy, which doesn't work, because the only rule for comedy is that it has to be funny, just to hide the fact that you didn't get a joke.

If you want to say the joke wasn't funny to you, then you are in your right, but don't go through this whole crazy nonsense just because you didn't get a joke, please.

You may have been thinking of 'madcap' comedy, which this wasn't.

So the series where Plastic Man travels back in time to murder Abe Lincoln is not madcap?

It's nothing of the sort. But let's use 'Airplane' as an example, shall we? Airplane was a 'GOOD' comedy with a good ending that wasn't a total cop out. If it had ended like Plastic Man's arc did, here's how the ending would have changed;


Not very different from the ending of Monthy Python and the Holy Grail, which I think is a very funny movie, despite how many nerds will quote it at you at the drop of a hat make me hate it sometimes.

[MutoMikey]

I got into this series from the first vol. and have stayed with it since. And I must say I miss the old team. I'm ticked that Bart's "retired" (still questioning the meaning to that) . I miss Raven. And I'm really mad about Conner being gone. I've been a fan of his since the Reign of The Supermen arc. I hope Tim brings him back somehow. And I'm not a big fan of Ravager. Why's she there?
All in all, the roster does feel empty. I hope that changes in the next few issues.

Wait, could Bart retiring mean that he's still in the speed force?

[Bat-Mite]

Wait, could Bart retiring mean that he's still in the speed force?


Don't think so. They would put something like 'Missing in Action' if that was the case.

[Effect]

Did anyone else pick up the Robin/Ravager vibe from this issue when the team meet up with Wonder Girl?

[Typo Lad]

Okay, I know Tim's smart, but where the heck did he get the gene-splicing know-how to clone someone?

[Nate Grey]

Okay, I know Tim's smart, but where the heck did he get the gene-splicing know-how to clone someone?

My guess is he doesn't. Not exactly. I think he has working knowledge (i.e. trial and error). But since he's not using the same process Lex used, but instead what seems the most logical to him (half the each donor's DNA plus a protein link), it will fail. My guess is he researched all available data on cloning during the year gap.

[Typo Lad]

It takes a lot longer than that to get the basics of cloning down, or so I would think. Partcularly when your aptitudes lie elsewhere. Tim's always been shown as a logician and highly technically adept, but the biological sciences are a completely different field.

[Nate Grey]

It takes a lot longer than that to get the basics of cloning down, or so I would think. Partcularly when your aptitudes lie elsewhere. Tim's always been shown as a logician and highly technically adept, but the biological sciences are a completely different field.

But hasn't Tim been proven to be at least near genius level? If so, if he wanted to pick it up and in a hurry, even just the basics, he could. Especially if he's motivated, and his motivation is to get back a part of his friend. He won't let Conner go, he won't properly grieve, and this is the horrific result. He hasn't even stopped to consider if he somehow succeeds, he still played god and how that will affect his mind.

[Typo Lad]

But hasn't Tim been proven to be at least near genius level? If so, if he wanted to pick it up and in a hurry, even just the basics, he could.

I highly disagree. One thing I've always liked about the DCU is that they don't have Marvel's "He's a genius, so he must know everything about everything". Instead, which the exceptions of Michael Holt, Lex Luthor and possibly Niles Caulder, people actually have fields of expertise. That's far more "real".

Just the basics of cloning science won't let you grasp the massive undertaking of attempting to not only clone, but to create a merged clone of two people.

The ony thing I could maybe "buy" is that Tim swiped the tech from Luthor's lab that they used to heal Kon. That would makse sense, as it would involve him trying to learn the technology rather than the science.

[UniqueFrequency]

actually i think Tim is pretty much near genius level, even if he's better in other fields.

i'd say even without extensive knowledge of cloning/bio-science/whatever, he'd have a better grasp on it than most people, no?

[Nate Grey]

The ony thing I could maybe "buy" is that Tim swiped the tech from Luthor's lab that they used to heal Kon. That would makse sense, as it would involve him trying to learn the technology rather than the science.

I guess that's more likely. My main point of contention is that he's cloning Conner "wrong", not that he knows how to clone him at all, but obviously that shouldn't be ignored either. Chances are your scenario is what's happened, and Tim spent some time learning to use it, and this is the result of it. The ramifications of using it at all or even if he succeeds is another story altogether.

[Typo Lad]

actually i think Tim is pretty much near genius level, even if he's better in other fields.

i'd say even without extensive knowledge of cloning/bio-science/whatever, he'd have a better grasp on it than most people, no?

Not really. computer technology and biology are very, very different fields. With the exception of the occasional analogy used to explain a point, rarely do the twain meet.

I can't accept him building all that from scrath.

Now, reverse engeneering Luthor's stuff? Maybe. Then he'd be approaching it from a technological POV, which could explain why it hasn't been working.

[Nate Grey]

Now, reverse engeneering Luthor's stuff? Maybe. Then he'd be approaching it from a technological POV, which could explain why it hasn't been working.

Oooooooh...I hadn't considered that...I knew the what, this explains the why.

[UniqueFrequency]

Not really. computer technology and biology are very, very different fields. With the exception of the occasional analogy used to explain a point, rarely do the twain meet.

I can't accept him building all that from scrath.

Now, reverse engeneering Luthor's stuff? Maybe. Then he'd be approaching it from a technological POV, which could explain why it hasn't been working.

alternatively he does have Bruce around, not to mention Cyborg (who i'm sure could be a good help with the computer technology thing)

[Nate Grey]

alternatively he does have Bruce around, not to mention Cyborg (who i'm sure could be a good help with the computer technology thing)

Cyborg was "asleep" during the year, and no way would Batman help Tim in this endeaver. Understanding stolen tech or figuring it out on his own, this is Tim acting solo.

[Typo Lad]

alternatively he does have Bruce around, not to mention Cyborg (who i'm sure could be a good help with the computer technology thing)

1) I also don't buy Batman being able to clone.

2) Cyborg's been offline, remember? Plus his whole technical proffisioncy level's never really been gagued. He used to always need S.T.A.R. or Dayton Tech for repairs.

Plus, it looks like this is Tim's little secret, and I can't see him involving either of them.

[Gingold]

Cyborg was "asleep" during the year, and no way would Batman help Tim in this endeaver. Understanding stolen tech or figuring it out on his own, this is Tim acting solo.

Maybe Tim made a deal with Lex? That could lead to some interesting stories.

[UniqueFrequency]

Cyborg was "asleep" during the year, and no way would Batman help Tim in this endeaver. Understanding stolen tech or figuring it out on his own, this is Tim acting solo.

my bad. this is what happens when you comment without reading the book yet :p

damn exams!!

[lucifernomi]

Not really. computer technology and biology are very, very different fields. With the exception of the occasional analogy used to explain a point, rarely do the twain meet.

I can't accept him building all that from scrath.

Now, reverse engeneering Luthor's stuff? Maybe. Then he'd be approaching it from a technological POV, which could explain why it hasn't been working.

I'd even wager that Luthor gave him the tech, knowing that he himself wouldn't be able to personally re-clone Conner while he was on trial in Metropolis. Clearly though, he didn't divulge all of his secrets right away, possibly keeping them as leverage against Tim in the future. Imagine what a frustrated Tim would do to get Luthor to tell him them missing piece of the puzzle...

As for Tim being able to do it, with a year to study a devoted boy with a mind like his could learn quite a bit about the field. He may not be an expert, but he could surely learn enough to work the machines and computers that do most of the real work.

[Typo Lad]

Oooooooh...I hadn't considered that...I knew the what, this explains the why.

Actually, the what and the why we had "cloning Kon" and "Because he needs to tell him he loves him and always will".

Okay, so maybe the later is stretching.

My problem is the "how". but I kind of like the answer I just thought of and posted here. I'm going to stick with that until something is put in the comic that says otherwise.

[Typo Lad]

I'd even wager that Luthor gave him the tech, knowing that he himself wouldn't be able to personally re-clone Conner while he was on trial in Metropolis. Clearly though, he didn't divulge all of his secrets right away, possibly keeping them as leverage against Tim in the future. Imagine what a frustrated Tim would do to get Luthor to tell him them missing piece of the puzzle...

See, I can't see Luthor doing that. I can see Tim swiping the equipment from a lab, but never Lex handing over tech.

As for Tim being able to do it, with a year to study a devoted boy with a mind like his could learn quite a bit about the field. He may not be an expert, but he could surely learn enough to work the machines and computers that do most of the real work.

1) Maybe he could figure out how to use the machines, that I buy. And it would explain why despite having the tech, he can't get it just right. It's like learning to code web sites through a WSYWIG. It workjs, but there are always small errors a real coder would catch.

2) Maybe he could get the smarts, and I mean maybe, if he devoted all the year to studying cloning. However, considering that he and Bruce were both missing for a year, I suspect his time was taken by other things.

[lucifernomi]

See, I can't see Luthor doing that. I can see Tim swiping the equipment from a lab, but never Lex handing over tech.

Well the way I've read it, Lex was pretty attatched to Connor. And not just on a "you're my secret weapon" level, but actually showing genuine concern for his life. He's helped Tim before when Connor's life was at stake. I could see Lex having an interest in seeing him returned to life, especially if doing so will put the leader of the Teen Titans in his debt. Think of how useful that would be to a super-villian.

[Joe Acro]

Here are a few of my thoughts (and I'm not going to read through eleven pages of posts to see if someone else has mentioned these).

I think it makes perfect sense that Tim would want to clone Conner. The guy is very depressed and lonely. He needs a friend. Who better than a friend that he knows can be created? (Forget that a part of him is probably telling him that it won't be the same.)

I find the new Titans odd. Maybe it's due to the lack of action, but they don't seem cohesive yet. The cover itself was misleading in depicting that Wonder Girl was still a part of the team. So, three old members, and one new one. Interesting team but, like I said, odd.

I wonder who this Gemini character is. Not having much experience with the Brotherhood of Evil, I am not familiar with some of their characters. She could be new, for all I know. She seems fairly forgettable, though.

Why does the cover portray Cyborg with green lights when they're orange within the issue?

I really like Robin's new costume. More red goes a long way.

[Deathstroke]

I just read the book again today and I'm really interested to see how they explain (or will it be part of "52") Rose being both a good guy and sane again.

I also hope it's not too long before Wonder Girl is a member of the team again.

[Cayman]

I just read the book again today and I'm really interested to see how they explain (or will it be part of "52") Rose being both a good guy and sane again.

I also hope it's not too long before Wonder Girl is a member of the team again.

Wasn't it the result of something Nightwing did in his solo book?

Cay

[Deathstroke]

Wasn't it the result of something Nightwing did in his solo book?

Cay

Whatever he did in the solo book might have woken her up to the realities of her father, but it doesn't cure her crazy or explain how she's on the good guy's side now and not in prison.

[Angel of Sorrow]

I wonder who this Gemini character is. Not having much experience with the Brotherhood of Evil, I am not familiar with some of their characters. She could be new, for all I know. She seems fairly forgettable, though.


This site is a good place for the little knowledge that was even really given to Gemini (http://www.titanstower.com/source/whoswho/badt.html#gem). She seems like one of those 'one-night stand' characters that they brought back for what ever reason.

[K'Nort]

I just read the book again today and I'm really interested to see how they explain (or will it be part of "52") Rose being both a good guy and sane again.

They mindwipe her.


And I'm another who is assuming that Tim is using Luthor's tech.

[Justin D.]

Whatever he did in the solo book might have woken her up to the realities of her father, but it doesn't cure her crazy or explain how she's on the good guy's side now and not in prison.

I never saw her as that crazy in Nightwing. More deluded and misled by her father than crazy.

[SuperManny]

In the first few pages of the comic, we see a conversation between Raven and Beast Boy. Gar refers to a character......I think he called him "Mal" or "Sal" (I don't have the comic in front of me). Does anyone know which character he is referring to, or is this one of Johns' classic wait-and-see tidbits? It threw me off considering I don't know the history of the Doom Patrol, nor classic Teen Titans history.

Thanks guys,

[Gingold]

In the first few pages of the comic, we see a conversation between Raven and Beast Boy. Gar refers to a character......I think he called him "Mal" or "Sal" (I don't have the comic in front of me). Does anyone know which character he is referring to, or is this one of Johns' classic wait-and-see tidbits? It threw me off considering I don't know the history of the Doom Patrol, nor classic Teen Titans history.

Thanks guys,

Mal Duncan aka Guardian II aka Hornblower aka Herald was a member of the Titans in their 70s incarnation and has served as an occassional reserve member ever since. He's married to Bumblebee, another 70s/reserve Titan who we see as a member of the new Doom Patrol in #34.

[titanfan]

Does anyone know which character he is referring to, or is this one of Johns' classic wait-and-see tidbits?

The tidbit was that something really bad is going to happen to Donna's space team in Infinite Crisis.

[Cayman]

Whatever he did in the solo book might have woken her up to the realities of her father, but it doesn't cure her crazy or explain how she's on the good guy's side now and not in prison.

RETCON PUNCH!

(maybe?)

Cay

[jadegiant77]

If Tim finally makes a viable clone of Kon, anyone else want the all-new, all-different Kon to take "Black Zero" as his new codename?

It'd echo a certain older story... ;)

That would be awesome.I wrote a story once where Kon took on the name Black Zero(the name of the Kryptonian anti-clone movement, for those who don't know). If Robin brings him back, maybe Raven can use some mystical ceremony to bond Kon's soul to the clone.

Not feelin' Kid Devil(it's like Lil' Hot Stuff all growed up!), and what's up with those lameo's Marvin and Wendy joinin' the Titans instead of the Wonder Twins??? Is Wonder Mutt gonna be in this, too? :p

[Go Go]

When/what issue(s) did these Titans get killed?
Superboy: Most recent IC issue and ?
Flash: ?
Speedy:? Star City bombimgs?
Pantha: Evil Superboy punched her head off (groan)
Bushido: ? Heck, who was Bushido even?
Kid Flash: ?
Baby Wildebeast: ? They killed a baby on panel? Yikes!
Tempest: ?

Sorry about the line up question. I haven't been able to get to my comic shop for a couple of months. I have IC on pull just to see what happens, but I will need to get the issues of certain characters deaths.

[Owens 23]

Pencil cover image
http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0604/12/teentitans34.jpg

[Cayman]

When/what issue(s) did these Titans get killed?
Superboy: Most recent IC issue and ?
Flash: ?
Speedy:? Star City bombimgs?
Pantha: Evil Superboy punched her head off (groan)
Bushido: ? Heck, who was Bushido even?
Kid Flash: ?
Baby Wildebeast: ? They killed a baby on panel? Yikes!
Tempest: ?

Sorry about the line up question. I haven't been able to get to my comic shop for a couple of months. I have IC on pull just to see what happens, but I will need to get the issues of certain characters deaths.

I think they said Speedy is alive on an island with Connor Hawke somewhere.

Cay

[Angel of Sorrow]

I believe Tempest is missing.
I don't think they've given a true answer towhether he has died yet.

[Young Avenger]

I have a question about this issue. Is Wendy and Marvin from this issue the same Wendy and Marvin from Superfriends?

[Bat-Mite]

Yeah, only instead of being useless, they are tech geniuses. Still annoying, though.

[Young Avenger]

They seem pretty useless to me. They did nothing when Rose and Kid Devil were getting their asses handed to them by Cyborg. They stood right there talking about all the stuff they implanted in him.

[KramarDanIkabu]

Because they're not actual members of the team. Why is it that no one gets that? They're just regular humans with genius-level IQs as it would seem.

[Bat-Mite]

I believe the fact that they didn't get in the way of the crazy fully armed cyborg proves they are geniuses.

[90'sCartoonMan]

Wow, those teasers of Cyborg seeing things through the past year were AWESOME. A new Zatara? Cool! This thing incorporated Super Friends AND Kingdom Come!

I wonder what happened to Kid Devil. He looks cool now, I can't wait to see him in action.

I like Ravager (after Nightwing I've been waiting for her to be good). I wonder where Bart is and what made him retire. I'd like to see him interact with Ravager (and in general).

Cassie's hardcore now! I'm sure this line-up is only the start. Hopefully Bart, Conner, Speedy, and maybe Beast Boy and Raven come back in some form.

When/what issue(s) did these Titans get killed?
Superboy: Most recent IC issue and ?
Flash: ?
Speedy:? Star City bombimgs?
Pantha: Evil Superboy punched her head off (groan)
Bushido: ? Heck, who was Bushido even?
Kid Flash: ?
Baby Wildebeast: ? They killed a baby on panel? Yikes!
Tempest: ?

Superboy: ?
Flash: IC #4 (disappeared into Speed Force)
Speedy: Still alive
Pantha: IC #4/TT#32
Bushido: IC #4/TT#32 (Bushido was a Japanese hero who first appeared in a Titans annual in the late 90's, he could channel his dead ancestors through their weapons)
Kid Flash: Still alive and "retired"
Wildebeast: IC #4/TT #32
Tempest: The Spectre destroys Atlantis (where Tempest was), and Aquaman searches for survivors in Aquaman #38, but he finds none

[Owens 23]

Also, here's a black and white version of the cover to issue 36 with Wonder Girl front and center.

http://images.comicbookresources.com/previews/dccomics/covers/teentitans36_pencils.jpg



It's Mammomax from the X-Men.

[UniqueFrequency]

Wow, those teasers of Cyborg seeing things through the past year were AWESOME. A new Zatara? Cool! This thing incorporated Super Friends AND Kingdom Come!

I wonder what happened to Kid Devil. He looks cool now, I can't wait to see him in action.

I like Ravager (after Nightwing I've been waiting for her to be good). I wonder where Bart is and what made him retire. I'd like to see him interact with Ravager (and in general).

Cassie's hardcore now! I'm sure this line-up is only the start. Hopefully Bart, Conner, Speedy, and maybe Beast Boy and Raven come back in some form.


yeah Wonder Girl IS hardcore now! i really liked the changes in Teen Titans from OYL! i really wanna find out what happened to Bart though

[Psychoweasel]

You are trying to make up some rules for comedy, which doesn't work, because the only rule for comedy is that it has to be funny, just to hide the fact that you didn't get a joke.

Uhm...no. Have you taken a writing class at all? There's a reason some jokes are funny and other aren't. If you believe otherwise, then you obviously have missed the point. That, and you're obviously reading more into the ending of the series than was actually there, rationalizing a cop out ending as a 'joke' for some misguided reason.

If you want to say the joke wasn't funny to you, then you are in your right, but don't go through this whole crazy nonsense just because you didn't get a joke, please.

Oh please. This is not crazy, nor nonsense, it's an opinion...and a correct one that you obviously refuse to accept. It was not a funny joke because it wasn't a joke at all, but a lame cop out. Pure Deus ex Machina in the form of a monk. The only nonsense here is the idea that the ending was anything BUT a blatant cop out.

So the series where Plastic Man travels back in time to murder Abe Lincoln is not madcap?

Did this happen after the initial arc? If so, I didn't read it. The arc I read wasn't madcap. Also, for the record, anything that happened after it I disregard continuity-wise. J'onn as his son? Assassinating Abe? C'mon now... :rolleyes:

Not very different from the ending of Monthy Python and the Holy Grail, which I think is a very funny movie, despite how many nerds will quote it at you at the drop of a hat make me hate it sometimes.

Actually, the ending of Monty Python and the Holy Grail is very different from the ending of Plastic Man. See, unlike the arc's ending, the movie's ending was set up from the moment the announcer/historian was cut down early on in the movie. From there we see ongoing supporting scenes that lead up to the ending; one where the historian's body is found, where the wife reports it to the police, and where the police arrest Lancelot. There was a definite setup for the ending joke, the rest of the movie wasn't made moot by the wave of a God-like third-party character's wrist...unlike Plastic Man's arc.

The ending of the comic arc was a cop out, pure Deus ex machina, and to try to explain it away as a joke on the reader is a severe rationalization and an insult not only to Plastic Man but the reader who spent their hard-earned bucks on it.

[Psychoweasel]

http://images.comicbookresources.com/previews/dccomics/covers/teentitans36_pencils.jpg

Any idea where the elephant man came from here? Is it a Byrne carry-over or something? I didn't read his DP run after the first issue, was this character in it?

[Cayman]

Every hero needs a good pachyderm foe.

Cay

[Psychoweasel]

*struggling not to make an elephantitis joke* :eek:

[Zero Hunter]

Any idea where the elephant man came from here? Is it a Byrne carry-over or something? I didn't read his DP run after the first issue, was this character in it?

That really does look like the Mammomax from the X-men's Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. Maybe Marvel just gave that lame-o away. He was last seen disapearing through a dimensional warp if I remember right.

Ok since it is the Brotherhood of Evil I can name off most of them:
Plasmus
Hougun
Warp
Brain
Monsier Mallah
Gemini

Who is the other girl though? It doesn't look like Phobia. Or maybe it is her and I just can't tell from the pic.

[Psychoweasel]

Ok since it is the Brotherhood of Evil I can name off most of them:
Plasmus
Hougun
Warp
Brain
Monsier Mallah
Gemini

Who is the other girl though? It doesn't look like Phobia. Or maybe it is her and I just can't tell from the pic.

I don't think that's her, I don't think Phobia would dress that way...huge bows and frilly sleeves. She does look a bit like the girl introduced in Firestorm a few issues back, tho...I might be wrong.

And since when does Warp's helmet look like a vibrator? I thought it was supposed to be circular!

[Nick Kal]

Man the upcoming Titans roster will be cool... I just have a feeling because this current one is not finalized. You know it!

[Bat-Mite]

Oh please. This is not crazy, nor nonsense, it's an opinion...

Opinions can be crazy nonsense. Opinions can be wrong, just like yours is. Opinions are not sacred.

...and a correct one that you obviously refuse to accept. It was not a funny joke because it wasn't a joke at all, but a lame cop out.

You just didn't get the joke. It wasn't a cop out because it was obvious to any person with more sense of humor than Mr. "Humor has rules!" here that Kyle Baker was setting up a grim and gritty finale just to then pull the rug from under our feet and make everything happy.

Did this happen after the initial arc? If so, I didn't read it. The arc I read wasn't madcap.

OK, want something that happened inside the arc you read? How about when Plastic Man spent an entire issue chasing a supervillain called THE RED HERRING.

Oh no! It is obvious that Kyle Baker was just using a RED HERRING and not making a joke, because jokes have rules! I have written a ten thousand pages book detailing all the rules of comedy, and the several positions a banana peel can have for it to be funny!

[kossori]

Brotherhood members I know...
Starting with Brain and going clockwise:

Brain
Houngan
???
Warp
Monsieur Mallah
???
Madame Rouge???
Plasmus

I'm hoping that the unknown chick is Phobia since that'll return the original team. However... it could be as off the wall as... Nudge...

BTW... does anyone know the line-up of the Doom Patrol, yet. I'm betting Gar's back with them.

[Nick Kal]

I'm betting Beast Boy is with the Doom Patrol until Cyborg convinces him to come back to the Titans!

P.S. I also heard from a reliable source that Titans East is going to be killer.

[Go Go]

Superboy: ?
Flash: IC #4 (disappeared into Speed Force)
Speedy: Still alive
Pantha: IC #4/TT#32
Bushido: IC #4/TT#32 (Bushido was a Japanese hero who first appeared in a Titans annual in the late 90's, he could channel his dead ancestors through their weapons)
Kid Flash: Still alive and "retired"
Wildebeast: IC #4/TT #32
Tempest: The Spectre destroys Atlantis (where Tempest was), and Aquaman searches for survivors in Aquaman #38, but he finds none

Thanks 90'sCartoonMan and Cay for answering my questions! I greatly appreciate it! Thanks again!