The New Avengers: Illuminati *Spoilers*

[Mobbo]

ok this issue starts off with Iron Man, Doctor Strange, Professor Xavier, Doctor Reed Richards, Black Bolt, and Prince Namor as guests of Black Panther in his castle. it takes place after the Kree Skrull War.

Iron Man suggests that all the superheroes come together to form a commitee to stop an invasion from ever happening again. Namor says he doesnt trust the other superheroes so they agree to meet each other by themselves the next time something big happens.

Then the heroes gather to discuss the problem of The Hulk, who just destroyed Las Vegas. They all want to send Hulk into space, except Namor, who accuses them of not doing enough to find a cure for Banner. this leads into a fight between Iron Man and Namor underwater, until the magic of Doctor Strange separates them both. they eventually send Hulk into space.

The next time the Illuminati meets is to discuss the superhero registration act, which Iron Man has decided he is in favor of. Namor leaves in protest, Doctor Strange is against the bill, Doctor Reed is for it, so Strange leaves. Black Bolt also is in favor of it. and so the issue ends.

A pretty good issue, as a precursor to Civil War. one fight scene and the rest is just talk. Namor is a dick,though. some people may not like the art but i'm a big fan of Alex Maleev, so i like his take on the characters.

[Keith_Martineau]

Guess I'm gonna have to read it to get this question answered but...

Why on Earth is Blackbolt for it? Why would he even care?

[Effect]

So I guess that last meeting takes place after Spider-mans': Road to Civil War three parter then? Cause in that he's against the act. Guess it's after that and after the situation with the New Warriors.

[Mobbo]

Guess I'm gonna have to read it to get this question answered but...

Why on Earth is Blackbolt for it? Why would he even care?

It doesnt say in this issue but i read in another thread that the Inhumans had something to do with the Kree Skrull War.

[Keith_Martineau]

It doesnt say in this issue but i read in another thread that the Inhumans had something to do with the Kree Skrull War.

No, I know why Blackbolt is there in the Illuminati.

I'm curious why he would be for Superhero registration in America.

I can't see why he would even care.

[XPac]

I'll obviously have to read the issue to get a better understanding of the Illuminati, but it sounds like they don't actually do a whole lot behind the scenes (the Hulk thing being an obivous exception and they weren't terribly stealth in keeping their identities a secret there).

[Mobbo]

No, I know why Blackbolt is there in the Illuminati.

I'm curious why he would be for Superhero registration in America.

I can't see why he would even care.
it doesnt say because Black Bolt doesnt speak, and Professor Xavier is not there to read his mind. he makes a hand gesture towards Iron Man, and it was understood that he agreed.

[tricksterpup]

it doesnt say because Black Bolt doesnt speak, and Professor Xavier is not there to read his mind. he makes a hand gesture towards Iron Man, and it was understood that he agreed.
But the problem that does not make this a good read, it should atleast explain why everyone is part of the Illuminati. Sorry, I like my stories to be solid in a one shot and this isnt close to it.

[Dark Soul # 7]

A comic that´s about a Bendis retcon.
No thank you.

[moon knight]

So I guess that last meeting takes place after Spider-mans': Road to Civil War three parter then? Cause in that he's against the act. Guess it's after that and after the situation with the New Warriors.
it happens before because in the spider-man issue Iron Man just returned from the illumintai encounter

[protege]

Guess I'm gonna have to read it to get this question answered but...

Why on Earth is Blackbolt for it? Why would he even care?
Why would Dr. Strange care?

[drinkblatzbeer]

So I guess that last meeting takes place after Spider-mans': Road to Civil War three parter then? Cause in that he's against the act. Guess it's after that and after the situation with the New Warriors.

i'm thinking, with an assist from scenes in FF 536...

this issue takes place just after the spidey arc...(as reed and sue are watching rerun clips from the stark meeting)
but before the new warriors stuff...

i liked the issue...
though namor came off a bit too pissy...and i'd have thought the prof x. issue, especially with these events of house of M, which they don't seem too concerned about, would have been a bigger issue to the group...

anyways i think it's a cool albeit rushed set-up...

but i have alot of excitement for marvel this summer, with this and annihilation both looking promising...

[stillanerd]

No, I know why Blackbolt is there in the Illuminati.

I'm curious why he would be for Superhero registration in America.

I can't see why he would even care.

No kidding. I mean this guy already rules thousands of superbeings on the Moon, which last time I checked, doesn't really fall under American jurisdiction (unless you count all those moonwalks :))

[Keith_Martineau]

Why would Dr. Strange care?

All of the human/mutant/AMERICAN characters have a reason to care, one way or the other, regardless of if their identities are public knowledge, but Blackbolt is neither human, nor an american. He's not even strictly a resident of Earth. Thats why it seems odd he'd be for an american super hero registration act.

Unless he's just agreeing with Iron Man that the way to handle the situation is for everyone to go along with it.

[Harold of the Rocks]

I interpreted Black Bolt's gesture (pointing at Tony, then Reed -- the last two there) as saying 'This is your problem'. He took off immediately thereafter, leaving Tony and Reed alone. I don't think he was choosing sides at all, just saying that this is an affair that involves humans only. He was looking downward when pointing at Tony, but looking at Reed when he pointed at him. It could also mean that he trusts Reed's judgement. I still don't think he was taking sides, though.

[Madrox84]

Sounds interesting, i shall be getting this issue tomorrow. I'm a big fan of the Bendis/Maleev.

I've enjoyed the CW preludes so far.

[stillanerd]

I interpreted Black Bolt's gesture (pointing at Tony, then Reed -- the last two there) as saying 'This is your problem'. He took off immediately thereafter, leaving Tony and Reed alone. I don't think he was choosing sides at all, just saying that this is an affair that involves humans only. He was looking downward when pointing at Tony, but looking at Reed when he pointed at him. It could also mean that he trusts Reed's judgement. I still don't think he was taking sides, though.

Well, that makes sense. Course this confussion might've been avoided had Medusa been there to speak for Black Bolt as she usually does.

[Mobbo]

A comic that´s about a Bendis retcon.
No thank you.
do you hate bendis or do you hate retcons?? just curious....

[Harold of the Rocks]

Well, that makes sense. Course this confussion might've been avoided had Medusa been there to speak for Black Bolt as she usually does.Yeah, I thought that too. Still, the original agreement was for nobody but nobody else involved. So, Reed can't tell Sue, Bolt can't tell Medusa, etc...and Xavier was supposed to be Bolt's translator, but since he is AWOL... He still coulda brought a piece of chalk and some slate or a notebook and a pencil or something... ;)

[tricksterpup]

Yeah, I thought that too. Still, the original agreement was for nobody but nobody else involved. So, Reed can't tell Sue, Bolt can't tell Medusa, etc...and Xavier was supposed to be Bolt's translator, but since he is AWOL... He still coulda brought a piece of chalk and some slate or a notebook and a pencil or something... ;)
You would assume that Iron man would have a laptop or something for him to type on.

[Tony Starkz]

What was on the last page anyways?

[Cthulhudrew]

You would assume that Iron man would have a laptop or something for him to type on.

Or a chalkboard, like Awesome Andy.

Or a pencil and some paper.

Or a shovel and some coal, even?

[Ravenheart]

I interpreted Black Bolt's gesture (pointing at Tony, then Reed -- the last two there) as saying 'This is your problem'. He took off immediately thereafter, leaving Tony and Reed alone. I don't think he was choosing sides at all, just saying that this is an affair that involves humans only. He was looking downward when pointing at Tony, but looking at Reed when he pointed at him. It could also mean that he trusts Reed's judgement. I still don't think he was taking sides, though.


That was the impression I got as well.

[Jack]

I don't think we should really trust the predictive abilities of Tony Stark if he doesn't think to bring a goddamn pencil for Black Bolt.

"I'm a futurist. The way my mind works - the way Reed's mind works - we can intuit the future. That's why we're such successful inventors. We know what people will need before people even know they're going to need it."

Apparently not well enough to know that Black Bolt needs a bloody pencil though!

So silly.

[Doom Hammer]

Guys, Black Bolt is above such things.

When Black Bolt WANTS you to know something, you KNOW.

:D

[Wannabe]

What was on the last page anyways?


A shot of Iron Man sitting in a chair.

[jade_nova]

I was disappointed with this issue. I figured we would see how the Illuminati worked and there responses to the big events since the Kree-Skrull War. Such as Secret Wars I and II, Acts of Vengence, Onslaught.

[StoneGold]

Does Black Bolt know how to write in English? It's amazing enough that he understands it.

Oh, and what Doom Hammer said. Really, what it comes down to is that the image of Blackbolt writing or typing something out is much less cool than him signing something.

[XPac]

I was disappointed with this issue. I figured we would see how the Illuminati worked and there responses to the big events since the Kree-Skrull War. Such as Secret Wars I and II, Acts of Vengence, Onslaught.

Maybe it should have been a mini-series. It might have been interesting to see them doing all these behind the scenes actions in those big events... thought that sort of writing potentially leads to massive retcons. Not that Bendis has a problem doing that.

[Young Avenger]

I wonder why this one-shot is called New Avengers: The Illuminati when Iron Man is the only Avenger in it.

[UniqueFrequency]

I wonder why this one-shot is called New Avengers: The Illuminati when Iron Man is the only Avenger in it.

the quick answer is: sales.

[Volk1]

Liked the interactions between Tony and Namor...it's going to be interesting to see how Namor is going to affect whatever comes next in Civil War

Black Panther was just plain cool in the beginning. I mean, he's an outsider in the first place. Wakanda is isolated and hardly interacts with the outside world. He basically just said get f'k out, and I think that works well with his character....

[The Purple Skull]

Awesome talking heads story. I liked how the preview of Civil War #1 actually connected to what Iron Man feared about the most. Namor ruled in this issue as a jerk/voice of reason. It was a nice surprise that he was the one defending Banner.

One of my favorite scenes in the issue:
Iron Man: ...We're all warriors. We're all willing.
Namor: No. You're warriors. I'm a king.
IM: Not up here you're not.
(IM is then punched right out of the Hydrobase)

:) I need more of Bendis writing Namor. Cannot wait for Civil War.

[Keith_Martineau]

As much as I wanted to see how they dealt with and effected the other things that happened in the MU, people are bitching enough about this being a retcon.

As it stands, all we know about them is that they've gotten together on several occasions to exchange information and suggest things. Not that they've been controlling the events of the MU for ages.

As far as that goes, this is not a pervasive retcon. Indeed it's something that makes sense.

I thought it was VERY smart for them to have the Civil War preview at the end. Cause this way, you read Iron Mans prediction, and then you read it come to pass.
And yer like "damn, it's on now!"

And I felt Iron Man's reasoning for supporting the issue were good. Support it, and then defeat this threat from within. I have a feeling the way this plays out it, he wants to support it, even though at heart he's against it, but after the New Warriors disaster, he's painted himself into a corner, and it passes, and now he HAS to support it, even if maybe he doesn't want to.

[StoneGold]

As much as I wanted to see how they dealt with and effected the other things that happened in the MU, people are bitching enough about this being a retcon.

As it stands, all we know about them is that they've gotten together on several occasions to exchange information and suggest things. Not that they've been controlling the events of the MU for ages.

.
I think part of the problem is the name "Illuminati." I'm assuming it's basically the nickname Bendis and Millar came up for the group, and it just sort of stuck, but it's really not accurate. Or at least, not for the bulk of the association's (I have trouble calling it a group) existence.

As far as I can tell, the first thing the Illuminati actually proactively did (besides share Namor's recipe for crab cakes, but don't tell Sue) was launch Hulk into space. Hell, as far as I could tell, I'm not even sure if the group met all that many times before Wanda went all crazy.

[Will.S]

As far as I can tell, the first thing the Illuminati actually proactively did (besides share Namor's recipe for crab cakes, but don't tell Sue) was launch Hulk into space. Hell, as far as I could tell, I'm not even sure if the group met all that many times before Wanda went all crazy.
Don't forget the Sentry/Void stuff too, they all showed up personally to deal with it.

[StoneGold]

Don't forget the Sentry/Void stuff too, they all showed up personally to deal with it.
Assuming any of that actually happened, and given what's going on in Sentry right now, I really have no idea. God that book is f'd up, in a really good kind of way.

[Will.S]

Indeed......

[agrich]

I thought it was great.

And I just posted about it in the New Avengers: Illuminati thread over in the Civil War forum, so clearly I'm never going to be able to figure out where I should actually talk about this thing....

Short version. Maleev rules. Cool story, reminded me of the old Super Villain Team-Up books with Dr. Doom and Namor. Clearly I'm going to be on the side of Dr. Strange and the resistance or whatever in Civil War. Fun comic.

[Mean Mr Mustard]

I liked Namor's characterization a lot (though he needed a bit more of the Defenders miniseries' exterior arrogance. Just a little bit though)
My favorite Sub-Mariner scene was when, right after Tony announces he thinks they should back up the Registration, we see Strange and Richards' stunned reactions... and Namor's gleeful smile! He knew it was on and he loved it.
:D

[Giant Guy]

Namor and the Black Panther were awesome and their characters were dead on. I am so pumped up about Civil War now.

[Keith_Martineau]

I think part of the problem is the name "Illuminati." I'm assuming it's basically the nickname Bendis and Millar came up for the group, and it just sort of stuck, but it's really not accurate. Or at least, not for the bulk of the association's (I have trouble calling it a group) existence.

As far as I can tell, the first thing the Illuminati actually proactively did (besides share Namor's recipe for crab cakes, but don't tell Sue) was launch Hulk into space. Hell, as far as I could tell, I'm not even sure if the group met all that many times before Wanda went all crazy.

Actually the real problem is that in interviews Bendis and Q had just after they announced that there would be an Illuminati special, they were saying that we would be shown instances where their influence effected the MU over the years.
That did not happen.

I imagine that these interviews were had before the issue was actually written, and things like that were PLANNED, but ultimately left on the cutting room floor in favor of the things we DID see.

And again, as much as I would like to see what their influence was, it would be a retcon, and I'm fine with them leaving it ambiguous.

[Harold of the Rocks]

Keith, thank you for these posts. Saved me the trouble, and did so in a way that I could not. I too think that the complaints are silly... "all Bendis writes is talking heads", and "we didn't see The Illuminati involved enough!!". I mean one or the other, folks! I'm satisfied with knowing that they were a loosely 'organized' association that shared information at times. I don't need to see them debate every major event in the Marvel U. since Kree-Skrull War to know that there were times when they shared info and accomplished something, and times when no concensus was to be had, and they called it a night. Besides, we don't know if we will see more of The Illuminati's history throughout Civil War or beyond... just because 'everything' wasn't covered in one issue does not mean the story is complete... or that it was supposed to be completed in that one issue.

[agrich]

Actually the real problem is that in interviews Bendis and Q had just after they announced that there would be an Illuminati special, they were saying that we would be shown instances where their influence effected the MU over the years.
That did not happen.


Well, it's not a problem if you didn't read the interviews, and instead only had read the comics.

[Slumber Hulk]

I think it was good book. I like the Idea of a the Illuminati and also see why it wasn't going to work out with that group, they are all just too different. I think a real secret society should start more like the Spiderman-Ironman Alliance as two people with similiar ideals and goals who can trust each other. Not just the 5 most powerful people on the planet. They couldn't agree on pizza toppings, you know Namor would want sardines.

[lordlad]

i think alot of ppl either misread this issue or mebbe i am reading it more...

To me, this is a good but not great issue. Just some neh from are:

- Tony address some of the current events as House of M, Nick Fury's Secret War...C'mon, i wouldn't mind he call HOM as M Day and Secret War as the mess nick Fury's caused

- Lack of involvement of the Illuminati in many of the previous marvel events. It Starts at the end of Kree-skrull war as the group came together and BAM.....suddenly, it jumps to 2 months ago. Whatever happen to the lost time ??

-Tony speaking like he is some kind of prophet. C'mon......Bendis, you can do better than this. All you have to do hint the impending events. Not predict like what tony's doing.

These 3 nehs aside....i have some insights on some of the confusion ppl have..

-Ironman. Some ppl are actually confused 'which sides is tony truly on?' He seems to agree on the Superhero registration here and yet in ASM#529 & 530, he is going to Washington with Peter to go against it. Well, dun be confused ppl. From how i read, Tony IS against the SuperHero Registration Act at heart, because it signified the end of the 'Rights to be a superhero' and then some. But he also sees a potential 'crisis' (no pun intended) if such an act truly is passed. So the hearing in ASM#530 is him speaking his mind and views out but deep in his heart, he knew that the act WILL pass no matter what and he has chosen a side. That's why he tried to persuade the others to join him to avoid furthur conflict.

- Some ppl also is confused why Namor is trying to 'protect' hulk. Again from how i read, Namor really isn't protecting hulk....but rather he was going against the group. You can swap hulk for.......Fin Fang Foom and he will say the same thing. He's just pissed with the group......like he always do.

-The Illuminati isn't as a big 'retcon' as some ppl were dissing about. Firstly, the group never really address or proclaimed themselves the illuminati or something. And they never ever tried to 'control anything from behind the scenes'. What this group really is doing is basically a small private group where they regularly exchange their individual faction's secrets and findings with each other.



Before i sign off, another thing to note is how this story is quite similiar to the 'Squadron Supreme' story written by the late Mark Gruenwald. A group of superheroes, after a world sized crisis, decided that they could actually make the world a safer and better place by controlling it. Though the execution is totally different, the basic idea of the coming of the Illuminati and original Squadron Supreme's Utopia Project are similiar.

All in all, like i say, i enjoy this special.

My rating: 7.5/10. Peace.

[Orion101]

What kind of garbage is Bendis trying to pull here, according to him The Hulk killed 26 people in the recent fantastic four 2 parter. Their is no way by any stretch of the imagination this happened, I read the friggan story myself. It just doesn't gell with what we saw there. Ben constantly says he has to stop the Hulk before he kills someone no mention is made of him killing anyone. Also if he did kill that large a number of people theirs no way Ben would have been that casual to him afterwards. Plus wouldn't their be a massive crowd of people crying for justice or some sort of public backlash. Plush Sheild just comming to pick him up and Banner supposedly not caring he killed a bunch of people doesn't make sense. Bendis just incerted some garbage into continuity that can't possible fit into the said issues he mentions.

[Haunt]

What kind of garbage is Bendis trying to pull here, according to him The Hulk killed 26 people in the recent fantastic four 2 parter. Their is no way by any stretch of the imagination this happened, I read the friggan story myself. It just doesn't gell with what we saw there. Ben constantly says he has to stop the Hulk before he kills someone no mention is made of him killing anyone. Also if he did kill that large a number of people theirs no way Ben would have been that casual to him afterwards. Plus wouldn't their be a massive crowd of people crying for justice or some sort of public backlash. Plush Sheild just comming to pick him up and Banner supposedly not caring he killed a bunch of people doesn't make sense. Bendis just incerted some garbage into continuity that can't possible fit into the said issues he mentions.

New Avengers is out of continuity.

[Mobbo]

What kind of garbage is Bendis trying to pull here, according to him The Hulk killed 26 people in the recent fantastic four 2 parter. Their is no way by any stretch of the imagination this happened, I read the friggan story myself. It just doesn't gell with what we saw there. Ben constantly says he has to stop the Hulk before he kills someone no mention is made of him killing anyone. Also if he did kill that large a number of people theirs no way Ben would have been that casual to him afterwards. Plus wouldn't their be a massive crowd of people crying for justice or some sort of public backlash. Plush Sheild just comming to pick him up and Banner supposedly not caring he killed a bunch of people doesn't make sense. Bendis just incerted some garbage into continuity that can't possible fit into the said issues he mentions.

there's a good explanation for all this...........quick, there's a bear behind you! :eek:

[XPac]

New Avengers is out of continuity.

The way things are shaping up in Marvel, I think Bendis = Continuity. Anything that's not in sync with him is what's out of continuity.

[sschroeder]

What kind of garbage is Bendis trying to pull here, according to him The Hulk killed 26 people

It doesn't specifically say killed in Illuminati. Those could be injuries.

The talk about Green Goblin killing implies they meant killing, but it doesn't actually say so.

[old_schoola]

Just A quick question didnt they try to register superhumans before and didnt it prove to be more trouble than its worth.Remember the Mutant registration act of the Late eighties in X-men and X-factor.or am I totally off my nut.

[ChildOfTheDarkholde]

New Avengers is out of continuity.


LMAO :D


We are all entitled to dream.

[Babylon23]

I must admit, I'm one of the people who expected more from this book based on prior comments from Bendis and Quesada. I thought the book will fill in the history of the Illuminati, and explain their connection/actions in relation to numerous events/crossovers from Marvel's past.

It may be that I misinterpreted the comments that were made, but I believed that this book would be more of a history lesson.

[The Shadow]

I must admit, I'm one of the people who expected more from this book based on prior comments from Bendis and Quesada. I thought the book will fill in the history of the Illuminati, and explain their connection/actions in relation to numerous events/crossovers from Marvel's past.

It may be that I misinterpreted the comments that were made, but I believed that this book would be more of a history lesson.
And this is why avoiding those pesky interviews can be good! I had NO IDEA what it was SUPPOSE to be about!

[Haunt]

Just A quick question didnt they try to register superhumans before and didnt it prove to be more trouble than its worth.

what trouble? the government got away with it/used mutants (Freedom Force) to enforce the registration. that's where the 198 files came from. it's how they were able to coral all of those mutants and intern them, because they knew who they were and what they could do.

[Neolucifer]

I thought that it was a great issue . I'm actually glad that the Illuminati didnt have much , if any hand in the biggest events prior to the skrull kree war ... it avoided pointless retcons , and still makes senses .

Events like Onslaught and the visit to Wanda in genosha , right before HoM , are stuff that anyway happened with an assembly of most of those heroes , and its not as if a secret meeting of the group in a dark room would have changed anything then ...
Those threats also hit them quite suddenly with little room for preparation .
However important , and obvious threat such as the Hulk , are the kind of thing such groups could and should be pro-active about .

The hulk was a double threat , for the image of the heroes , the only ones capable of dealing with him , yet incapable of doing their "jobs" to its full extent (namely slay the Hulk , either because of their feeling and/or they cant succeed) , and also to the public , given his immense power , and his lunacy .
Such "dark covenant" banishing the hulk and doing the possibly morally wrong , yet necessary thing to do , is precisely the way to go .
Again what would you have the Illuminati do about Onslaught ? combine their intellect and powers to find a way to beat him ? Thats precisely what everyone did . No pre emptive strikes and shaddy moves are exactily their area imo .

Anyway think that Bendis should at least be given props for adressing some of the most voiced concerns of those last month and in a quite decent , even great way :

-So Tony is pro registration , but not so much out of his desire , but rather forced by necessity ... Like debated in plenty of threads already , both Tony and Cap are in fact anti-reg , but of the two , Tony is the one likely to bend for the "greater good" .

-Why Tchalla aint in the group ? Also nailed ! No stupid racist reasons or memory lapses ... he doesnt like the idea . Btw he was quite Regal , something Missing in Huddlin's BP . I personally hope that Bendis could get a chance to write his ongoing , based upon his take .

-Namor's parts were perfect ... another well written version of the hero .

-People were mentioned that Strange already tried banishing Hulk ? Also not forgotten and mentioned , even if not really in depth .

-People yelling because Reed and Tony should instead cure the Hulk ??...also taken care of . Hell he even throw in the case of Ben . Indeed Reed couldnt so easily heal Ben , so the Hulk ? Especially when Reed's peer , each expert in their own find , Banner included didnt find anything permanent and satisfying .

- imo the reaction of pretty much everyone about the bill .. the smart way Tony advocated his adhesion and sold it to Reed , with the scientific approach ... no imo almost perfect .

Only negative point , indeed the confusing way Black Bolt is shown to vote .

10/10

[StoneGold]

-So Tony is pro registration , but not so much out of his desire , but rather forced by necessity ... Like debated in plenty of threads already , both Tony and Cap are in fact anti-reg , but of the two , Tony is the one likely to bend for the "greater good" .

I've said it elsewhere, but it's not so much that Tony is anti-registration. Registration is basically what he called for at the beginning of the book. He's just anti-them registering. He's got no problem if he and Reed are holding the reigns.

[Brian Cronin]

Try to avoid pissy arguments in the future.

At the same time, also try to avoid stuff like "calling out" people over past arguments. It doesn't serve any purpose other than to maybe make you feel superior, which, well, isn't something the rest of us should care about.

-Brian

[Brian Cronin]

I've said it elsewhere, but it's not so much that Tony is anti-registration. Registration is basically what he called for at the beginning of the book. He's just anti-them registering. He's got no problem if he and Reed are holding the reigns.

I think he is anti-registering, just that he thinks he is also pragmatic enough to realize that it's GOING to happen, so they better at least try to control it.

-Brian

[StoneGold]

I think he is anti-registering, just that he thinks he is also pragmatic enough to realize that it's GOING to happen, so they better at least try to control it.

-Brian
Let me rephrase that. The SHRA is a necessary evil. But guided by Tony, he can use it to make his original dream of a united superhuman presence to defend the world from larger metahuman threats a reality. I think he thinks that while it isn't a good thing in and of itself, he can make it a good thing.

[The Shadow]

Let me rephrase that. The SHRA is a necessary evil. But guided by Tony, he can use it to make his original dream of a united superhuman presence to defend the world from larger metahuman threats a reality. I think he thinks that while it isn't a good thing in and of itself, he can make it a good thing.
I think the US government said "Internment camps for Japanese people is a necessary step to ensuring the safety of Americans"... despite many of the Japanese rounded up actually being nationalized American's.

Tony may know it's goping to happen... but rather than accept it he should do everythin in his power to fight it.

That being said... like you Brian said said... Tony's not stupid and likely knows it's going to happen regardless of what he does so he's at least going to try and limit its effects by helping draft it.

[blackbolt]

I think Tony's little soliloquy about being able to 'intuit the future' was done quite heavy-handedly. It sounded like Marvel's 'Civil War Trailer'. I also liked the way that Black Panther was having absolutely none of it, and I'm really looking forward to BlackBolt causing some major damage in Civil War

[blackbolt]

"So, Black Bolt, whose side are you on?"
"Well--"
BOOM!

[powerforward]

i was a little confused with the panel that showed them voting by raising their hands.... it showed six raised hands- but t'challa didn't agree, so how were there six yes votes?

[Jackalman]

i was a little confused with the panel that showed them voting by raising their hands.... it showed six raised hands- but t'challa didn't agree, so how were there six yes votes?
Black Panther was the 7th person. There are 6 others.

[scouse mouse]

The book was okay, nothing amazing in my opinion. What bugged me was when Iron Man said he has never killed anybody even though he murdered 3 women during the Crossing. Denial aint just a river in Egypt Tony :D

[powerforward]

Black Panther was the 7th person. There are 6 others.


you are right- don't know how i missed that.

[Will.S]

The book was okay, nothing amazing in my opinion. What bugged me was when Iron Man said he has never killed anybody even though he murdered 3 women during the Crossing. Denial aint just a river in Egypt Tony :D
Heh, I think it's best to ignore that little chapter altogether.

[Mobbo]

The book was okay, nothing amazing in my opinion. What bugged me was when Iron Man said he has never killed anybody even though he murdered 3 women during the Crossing. Denial aint just a river in Egypt Tony :D
he was probably too drunk to remember. that happens sometimes.....

[garin]

According to his new Ellis-ified origin, Tony also killed fifty people during his escape with the first iteration of the Iron Man suit.

I read that line as meaning that he never killed anyone while drunk. It was in the context of being unable to control yourself, wasn't it?

[agrich]

Didn't "The Crossing" get erased from Marvel history somehow? (I only wish I could erase it from mine.) If not, whatever happened to Young Tony Stark? I mean, Old Tony Stark was certainly killed off at the end of The Crossing, in whatever, Avengers 395 or somesuch.

[scouse mouse]

Kurt Busiek changed it so all the villains were actually space phantoms and it was all part of a grand scheme to keep the Avengers from ever going into space in Avengers Forever. It is still meant to be in continuity I think, though Tony has only mentioned the murders once since Heroes Reborn; saying he will never forgive himself but then never mentioning it again.

[Haunt]

Didn't "The Crossing" get erased from Marvel history somehow? (I only wish I could erase it from mine.) If not, whatever happened to Young Tony Stark? I mean, Old Tony Stark was certainly killed off at the end of The Crossing, in whatever, Avengers 395 or somesuch.

he was merged with 616 Tony by Franklin Richards.