Wonder Man question

[furie]

Can anyone tell me what was Wonder Man's best run?

And what his powers are and why he's a cool or unique character? Or if he's not.

[furie]

Wow - nothing.

[Sandy Hausler]

Wow - nothing.

Sheesh, do a little research.<g>

Sandy Hausler

[furie]

I was more interested in peoples opinions of the character. Maybe I should have just said that. My bad.

[Typo Lad]

The problem is he's not a very well written, compelling character most of the time. I liked him best when he was written as scared to die again, even though he was invulnerable.

[Sandy Hausler]

Can anyone tell me what was Wonder Man's best run?

And what his powers are and why he's a cool or unique character? Or if he's not.

Well, he never really had a run, being as he's never had a regular series. He was an Avenger for a while. The friendship between him and the Beast was well done. I couldn't tell you what issues that was. I'm sure someone else could clue you in on that minor detail.

BTW, I think there was a Beast and Wonder Man limit series, but I can't even remember if it was any good.

Sandy Hausler

[dazzler_slave]

The first year or so of his 90's solo title was pretty enjoyable. He was working in LA, his supporting cast was interesting, and for 2 of the issues, he teamed up with Beast. He fought villains like Rampage and the Recession Raiders and Gamma Burn (a She-Hulk knockoff with body image issues). It was a light and fun series. Around the time of Operation:Galactic Storm, however, the title lost its fun feel and became yet another dark and grim title, which doesn't fit in with Simon's character.

He had a good run during the first couple of years of West Coast Avengers. He was arrogant and cocky as he was again trying to be an actor. Good stuff. Also check out his time on the main Avengers team from the late 70's, early 80's. George Perez was the artist and it is there that his friendship with Beast developed.

Hope this helps!

[DDM]

Wonder Man is no longer human. He is a being composed of sentient ions; therefore, he has superhuman strength & invulnerability. At first, he had to rely on artificial means to fly, but after he was resurrected by the Scarlet Witch, he turns into ionic energy to fly of his own power. When the Avengers first fought the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, Wonder Man proved to be immune to Rogue's mutant absorbtion powers in Avengers Annual #10. Wonder Man & Beast often were very good friends during their Avengers stint. Wonder Man was resurrected in Avengers #151 & the Beast joined the Avengers in Avengers #137. The Beast left the Avengers in Avengers #211 to become a member of the Defenders then X-Factor. Simon joined the West Coast Avengers since he is a part time actor.

The Vision's original brain patterns is based on Wonder Man's. That's why he refers to the Vision as his "brother." Simon's real brother became the villain, the Grim Reaper.

[dazzler_slave]

Well, he never really had a run, being as he's never had a regular series. He was an Avenger for a while. The friendship between him and the Beast was well done. I couldn't tell you what issues that was. I'm sure someone else could clue you in on that minor detail.

BTW, I think there was a Beast and Wonder Man limit series, but I can't even remember if it was any good.

Sandy Hausler
Acually, he had a regular series in the 90's that ran for about 36 issues. He also had a mini with the Beast called Avengers Two.

[Earth2Jeff]

Check out Avengers vol 1 #151-152 (when he was "ressurrected" by Black Talon) thru #211 (when he left the team.) Issues #164-166 especially was a real turning point for Simon, when he confonted his fear of dying during a battle with Count Nefaria. Some of these issues have been reprinted in various TPBs (Avengers Visionaries: George Perez, The Korvac Saga.) But I'm not sure about #164-166...they were drawn by John Byrne and weren't part of the Korvac storyline. Hope that helps!

[furie]

Thanks guys for the insight and information.

[riotgear]

Acually, he had a regular series in the 90's that ran for about 36 issues. He also had a mini with the Beast called Avengers Two.

29 issues, to be exact. I loved the series up until #25. After that, it just fell apart.

[Sandy Hausler]

Acually, he had a regular series in the 90's that ran for about 36 issues. He also had a mini with the Beast called Avengers Two.

I knew about Avenger Two (I think I mentioned it in my prior post, though not by name). I had forgotten about his regular series, which is worrisome, as I probably read it.<g>

Sandy Hausler

[DDM]

Check out West Coast Avengers #1-4 & West Coast Avengers #1-57, West Coast Avengers Annuals #1-4 also.

Check out Avengers #150-211, Avengers Annuals #7-10

Before Simon Williams died in Avengers #9.

[dazzler_slave]

29 issues, to be exact. I loved the series up until #25. After that, it just fell apart.
Yeah, I lost interest after he got all angsty after Operation: Zero Tolerance and killed Angkor. I just didn't need another depressing title. What was fun about the first issues was that it was lighthearted and showed a fun, shallow side to LA life. It was different. After he got all maudlin and angry, it was just like every other 90's title!

[dazzler_slave]

I knew about Avenger Two (I think I mentioned it in my prior post, though not by name). I had forgotten about his regular series, which is worrisome, as I probably read it.<g>

Sandy Hausler
No worries, I often wish to forget titles I read in the past (Fantastic Force comes to mind!). :D

[chicagokmc]

At first, he had to rely on artificial means to fly, but after he was resurrected by the Scarlet Witch, he turns into ionic energy to fly of his own power.

wasn't wonder man eventually able to fly in his own series under his own power before the resurrection by scarlet witch, which actually took place later in the avengers relaunch?

by the way, i think wonder man's best run was john byrne's west coast avengers run, which was 46 - 55 (thereabouts).

[Beast]

Wonder Man's best moment in comics...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/MasterSplinter/BeastandWondy.jpg

[CyberCoyote]

wasn't wonder man eventually able to fly in his own series under his own power before the resurrection by scarlet witch, which actually took place later in the avengers relaunch?

.

Simon was pretty God-Like at the end of his series, something that was shuffled into a dark place later on :) He could change shape/size, fly, blast energy, maybe even hold his own for a while with Chuck Norris :)

[Typo Lad]

Wonder Man's best moment in comics...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/MasterSplinter/BeastandWondy.jpg

Someone else who reads my blog?

[Kirk G]

wasn't wonder man eventually able to fly in his own series under his own power before the resurrection by scarlet witch, which actually took place later in the avengers relaunch?

by the way, i think wonder man's best run was john byrne's west coast avengers run, which was 46 - 55 (thereabouts).

uh, Avengers West Coast, which ran #42-57, about a year and a half... and could have gone another one or two more issues to wrap up the Darker than Scarlet storyline better, to suit me! :rolleyes:

[Earth2Jeff]

uh, Avengers West Coast, which ran #42-57, about a year and a half... and could have gone another one or two more issues to wrap up the Darker than Scarlet storyline better, to suit me! :rolleyes:

My memory's hazy on this one, as it's been years since I've read those issues. Did that storyline just kinda end a bit too abruptly? Was this one of those instances where Byrne was getting too much interference from his editors and so he left the title suddenly, like what supposedly happened on She-Hulk?

Guess I should really dig that run out for a re-read. It was a great story!

[Kaiju]

We also got to see one of Wonder Man's future incarnations in the Guardians of the Galaxy series and Galactic Gardians miniseries.

His appearance in The Last Avengers Story was epic.

[LordEd1976]

To me the best Wonder Man story came in early in West Coast Avengers. I think it was issue #4. In it. he goes on nationwide TV and admits that he was guilty of the embezzlment charges that he was arrested for just before he got his powers. In the aftermath, the WCA are bracing themselves for a bad fallout only to find out that people were supporting Wonder Man and impressed that he was brave enough to admit that he had made a mistake.

Another story I liked was West Coast Avengers #25. Wonder Man has a fight with Abomination (actually, Tyrannus in Abomination's body but why argue details). The fight demolishes NBC studios but Wonder Man manages to pull off a victory. However, everyone believes the fight was a stunt since his latest movie premiered earlier that evening. At the end of the story Wonder Man decides that being an Avenger is more important then his career.

[riotgear]

Yeah, I lost interest after he got all angsty after Operation: Zero Tolerance and killed Angkor. I just didn't need another depressing title. What was fun about the first issues was that it was lighthearted and showed a fun, shallow side to LA life. It was different. After he got all maudlin and angry, it was just like every other 90's title!

Do you mean Operation: Galactic Storm? OZT wasn't until several years later. Anyway, did you continue to read it? Because the anger served a purpose. It was actually part of the story. I thought it was a good twist on what a lot of people were trying to typecast characters in.

[XPac]

Simon was pretty God-Like at the end of his series, something that was shuffled into a dark place later on :) He could change shape/size, fly, blast energy, maybe even hold his own for a while with Chuck Norris :)

Yeah. I do think that whole thing was suppossed to have been retconned into Mephisto manipulating things... though he kept the ability to fly so SOME of it at least was real.

Personally I wish Simon would have kept some of his upgrades. Maybe an energy blast or something. I always thought it was weird that Busiek drastically altered Simon's appearance without altering or giving him new powers... he just took all his newer upgrades away. Again, removing MOST of the upgrades was fine but I wish he would have kept some of it.

[BigJayStudd]

I''d also recomend his run with the West Coast Avengers. Especially 1-40. He had a rivalry going with Iron-Man and was torn between the team and Hollywood. He was also percieved as a legit powerhouse on a Thor/Hercules level strength.

[dazzler_slave]

Do you mean Operation: Galactic Storm? OZT wasn't until several years later. Anyway, did you continue to read it? Because the anger served a purpose. It was actually part of the story. I thought it was a good twist on what a lot of people were trying to typecast characters in.
Yeah, sorry, I meant Galactic Storm. No, I stopped collecting. My last issue was the one where he attacked the West Coast Avengers. I just wasn't enjoying it anymore. I think that was issue 19 or something? Not sure.

[Thanos_6383]

Can anyone tell me what was Wonder Man's best run?

And what his powers are and why he's a cool or unique character? Or if he's not.

He had his own series in the mid 90s but they screwed that up.I liked it till after the Nega bomb incident.

[CyberCoyote]

Personally I wish Simon would have kept some of his upgrades. Maybe an energy blast or something. I always thought it was weird that Busiek drastically altered Simon's appearance without altering or giving him new powers... he just took all his newer upgrades away. Again, removing MOST of the upgrades was fine but I wish he would have kept some of it.

If I could retcon/alter one Marvel character it'd be Simon. I'd say that he was returned too soon by Wanda's hex powers which caused the purple fizz look. Without her around he'd have a hard time keeping himself material and have an endo-skeleton designed by Richards or Stark that'd focus his Ionic Energy and let him pull off a few of those 90's feats but they'd drain him so they wouldn't be on all the time. He's gain new focus in life accepting he's very much an immortal and take Thor's mantel as a God among men. Long learning curve, but it'd get him away from all the frivolous Hollywood crap (what good ever came from there, anyway :) )

[Mitchel]

Wonder Man is no longer human. He is a being composed of sentient ions; therefore, he has superhuman strength & invulnerability.

This is the most prevalent misconception about Wonder Man due to all the writer's mistakes including Gerard Jones his regular series writer(read the interviews in my site). Wonder Man is still human. He is composed of cells just they are permeated with ionic energy. His cells produce the ammount of energy equal to what a nuclear reactor produces instead of the normal amount of energy the rest of us produce hence his super strength and invulnerability. The purple kirby dots effect is only cosmetic like the phoenix effect. Personally I wish they will get rid of it, it only adds more to the confusion. Wonder Man should have never got all those one time wacky powers, he is fine being the earth anchored strongman (at gods strength levels Hercules-Thor) of the Avengers that Jim Shooter and David Michelinie fleshed out.

[riotgear]

This is the most prevalent misconception about Wonder Man due to all the writer's mistakes including Gerard Jones his regular series writer(read the interviews in my site). Wonder Man is still human. He is composed of cells just they are permeated with ionic energy. His cells produce the ammount of energy equal to what a nuclear reactor produces instead of the normal amount of energy the rest of us produce hence his super strength and invulnerability. The purple kirby dots effect is only cosmetic like the phoenix effect. Personally I wish they will get rid of it, it only adds more to the confusion. Wonder Man should have never got all those one time wacky powers, he is fine being the earth anchored strongman (at gods strength levels Hercules-Thor) of the Avengers that Jim Shooter and David Michelinie fleshed out.

Gerard Jones didn't make a mistake. It was a reveal that changed the outlook on the character. It's really odd to say that someone who wrote the story that changed things was making a misconception on how he changed it.

[Mitchel]

Gerard Jones didn't make a mistake. It was a reveal that changed the outlook on the character. It's really odd to say that someone who wrote the story that changed things was making a misconception on how he changed it.

It is a bad reveal when the writer is ignoring all that has gone before in order to write his story. Believe me this was worst than Bendis ignoring Chaos Magic and that Wanda used to remember her kids, just to give you a recent example. Serves right that that story "Hidden Depth" was retconned as being all Mephisto's lies, it had nice art though. Maybe you don't want to call it mistakes but to me they are. Chuck Austen handling of Pym and Janet is another recent example. You can introduce big changes to a character but it has to be handled in a way that makes sense. Hidden Depth didn't make any sense. :mad:

[Arrjay]

The Vision's original brain patterns is based on Wonder Man's.

Actually The Vision's original brain patterns are based on Wonder Man's.

Are. Not is.

[riotgear]

It is a bad reveal when the writer is ignoring all that has gone before in order to write his story. Believe me this was worst than Bendis ignoring Chaos Magic and that Wanda used to remember her kids, just to give you a recent example. Serves right that that story "Hidden Depth" was retconned as being all Mephisto's lies, it had nice art though. Maybe you don't want to call it mistakes but to me they are. Chuck Austen handling of Pym and Janet is another recent example. You can introduce big changes to a character but it has to be handled in a way that makes sense. Hidden Depth didn't make any sense. :mad:

This wasn't a Bendis change, like where Sauron breathes fire, and two years later reveals haphazardly, that after it becomes obvious it was an oops, that he may have been altered by bad-SHIELD. He may have always intended it that way, but it didn't come across as such. One of the many dangers of decompression.

No, this was a reveal that didn't go against what was shown before, but added to it. It explained why he "died" so many times, yet returned none the worse for wear, aside from the psychological damage. But apparently we interpreted it differently.

By the way, what changes about Hank and Janet are you referring to? That Jan is a flighty nympho who'll bang anyone with a stiff shaft? Explains why she went for Hawkeye. :rolleyes:

[Mitchel]

No, this was a reveal that didn't go against what was shown before, but added to it. It explained why he "died" so many times, yet returned none the worse for wear, aside from the psychological damage. But apparently we interpreted it differently.

Maybe it added to it for you. Lets reveal that Spider-man really died when the spider bit him and he is really a mutated spider that thru the years evolved from Peter Parker's living husk, lets see if people think that reveal adds to it. ;)




By the way, what changes about Hank and Janet are you referring to? That Jan is a flighty nympho who'll bang anyone with a stiff shaft? Explains why she went for Hawkeye. :rolleyes:

lol :o

[Wannabe]

Wonder Man's best moment in comics...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/MasterSplinter/BeastandWondy.jpg

I really miss those days when Beast was fun, and not all angsty and depressed about being a cat.

[Beast]

I really miss those days when Beast was fun, and not all angsty and depressed about being a cat.
We all do, my friend. We all do. :(

[Dermie]

Gerard Jones didn't make a mistake.

Actually, he did--he made a couple of them. One of the biggest ones was an arc centred around the deaths of Simon's mother and father back when he and Eric were kids...despite the fact that Simon's mother is alive and well and had appeared in a couple of issues of WCA and Vision&Scarlet Witch. Ooops.

As for Wondy's phisiology, it can be argued that it had continued to evolve/mutate beyond where it had been when the definition had been given way back in Avengers #164. But if so, Jones didn't say so--he wrote it as if that was the way Simon *always* was.

As for Wonder Man's current situation....Kurt Busiek has said that as far as he was concerned, when Wondy was restored to life in Avengers vol.3 #11 he was restored to the definition established back in Avengers #164; that Simon is a flesh and blood being whose cells are charged with ionic energy. Later stories back up that statement, since there was an issue or two during the Kang War storyline where we saw Simon bleeding.

[Mitchel]

Thanks Dermie for coming up with the facts. I tell you man, in a perfect world you would get aproached by Marvel to be an editor and you would give me an oportunity to work on an ongoing Wonder Man series. ;)

[riotgear]

Actually, he did--he made a couple of them. One of the biggest ones was an arc centred around the deaths of Simon's mother and father back when he and Eric were kids...despite the fact that Simon's mother is alive and well and had appeared in a couple of issues of WCA and Vision&Scarlet Witch. Ooops.

As for Wondy's phisiology, it can be argued that it had continued to evolve/mutate beyond where it had been when the definition had been given way back in Avengers #164. But if so, Jones didn't say so--he wrote it as if that was the way Simon *always* was.

As for Wonder Man's current situation....Kurt Busiek has said that as far as he was concerned, when Wondy was restored to life in Avengers vol.3 #11 he was restored to the definition established back in Avengers #164; that Simon is a flesh and blood being whose cells are charged with ionic energy. Later stories back up that statement, since there was an issue or two during the Kang War storyline where we saw Simon bleeding.

I'm sorry, I should've been more specific. I meant he didn't make a mistake on the direction he was taking Wonder Man's physiology. I can't speak on the other subjects, because I'm not in Jones' head. I don't know what he was thinking when he wrote it.

And you can't call it a mistake if a later writer or artist decides to retcon it. It was a logical progression that he made, until somebody else decided they didn't like it, and confused the issue later.

[Dermie]

I'm sorry, I should've been more specific. I meant he didn't make a mistake on the direction he was taking Wonder Man's physiology. I can't speak on the other subjects, because I'm not in Jones' head. I don't know what he was thinking when he wrote it.

And you can't call it a mistake if a later writer or artist decides to retcon it. It was a logical progression that he made, until somebody else decided they didn't like it, and confused the issue later.

I agree that it is a logical progression--but it would have helped if Jones had presented it as a progression. He didn't--he wrote it as if that was ALWAYS Simon's physiology, which is why some Wondy fans look at it as a mistake (and which is why it may actually BE a mistake--Jones may have actually thought that was how Wondy's powers worked, rather than intentionally progressing his situation).

If you're going to make changes to the way a character's powers work, that's okay--but I think it is reasonable to expect that you acknowledge to the reader that it IS a change.