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View Full Version : DC's Reboots in the 20 years since COIE


Lorendiac
03-28-2006, 06:57 PM
A few weeks ago I wrote a post in which I listed a few of the Reboots DC has done of characters and teams in the twenty years since COIE, and then I begged for helpful feedback from my readers to help me add anything I had missed. Got an awful lot of feedback! (Thanks, everybody who contributed!)

So now I've written a more complete list of all the people and teams DC has Rebooted at one time or another since COIE.

Before I offer my current list of DC Reboots, I want to talk a bit about what I mean or don't mean when I use that word "Reboot." This caused a bit of confusion the last time I talked about DC's Reboots. Different fans had different definitions in their heads when they saw and used that same word in their responses. Let's see if I can explain myself clearly this time.

What is a Reboot?

Reboot = Everything from before gets thrown away!

All -- or very nearly all -- of a character's previously published stories, that had him at the center of the action, get erased from continuity, leaving a clean slate for a fresh start. In the new continuity, they never happened and the other superheroes in that same comics universe don't remember anything about them. Now a writer is "starting all over from scratch" with the essential character concept, That is a Reboot.

If some bits and pieces of a character's history get changed on the spur of the moment, that is a Retcon. But if a lot of his old adventures are still supposed to be valid, allowing for some changes to various details, then he has not been Rebooted.

Things that aren't Reboots

1. The character's origin story gets retold with some new twists, but all of his subsequent adventures are still supposed to have happened, just about the way his veteran fans remember them.

For instance, Mark Waid recently wrote "Birthright," which is apparently supposed to retcon and replace the version of Superman's origin story that was offered to us twenty years ago in John Byrne's "Man of Steel" miniseries. But that does not mean Superman is getting Rebooted all over again, because just about everything else that's happened to him in his comics in the last twenty years is still in continuity.

2. The old character dies or retires and someone else puts on a costume and starts calling himself the successor with the same name.

For instance, Barry Allen (the Silver Age Flash) died in COIE. Wally West took over the role of being the Flash. That was a big change, but not a Reboot, because most of Barry's old Pre-Crisis stories were still in continuity. People in the DCU still remembered that those things had happened.

3. A new writer comes along and makes some changes, giving the hero a new supporting cast, giving him a different attitude, telling his stories with a whole different style.

This happens all the time in the comic book industry. It isn't a Reboot; it just means different writers will have different stories they want to tell.

4. The hero's old series got cancelled; he gets a new series with a new #1.

That isn't a Reboot unless all the hero's past adventures from the old series have just been erased from continuity, the way Wonder Woman's were twenty years ago when her old series got cancelled and then a new one started up later. Most of the time, this is simply a Relaunch.

5. Changing the exact roster of the "Founding Members" of a team, but saying that the team actually still had most of the same adventures from its old series, is not a Reboot.

For instance, in the Post-Crisis continuity regarding the original JLA, the official version said that Superman and Batman and Wonder Woman had not been Founding Members of the League. The second Black Canary had been, however, "replacing" Wonder Woman. Superman and Batman were apparently admitted to have lent a helping hand to the old JLA on various occasions if opportunity permitted. That was a major retcon to JLA continuity, but we weren't being told that all those stories from the JLA title of the 60s, 70s, and early-to-mid 80s had "never happened at all." They had just happened with a somewhat different set of members than we previously thought. That was not the same thing as tossing out the old JLA series and saying, "All that stuff never happened at all!" (It was a rather obnoxious thing to do to veteran JLA fans, however.)



The DC Reboots of the Past Twenty Years, after COIE

Superman. Rebooted in 1986 after COIE. All previous Superman-related stories (Earth-2, Earth-1, or any other version) effectively got thrown away and forgotten.

Wonder Woman. Rebooted at about the same time as Superman, around early 1987, shortly after COIE.

The Legion of Super-Heroes. Rebooted in 1994 after Zero Hour. Rebooted again in 2004.

The Doom Patrol. Rebooted in 2004. One rumor says that John Byrne did not ask DC for permission to reboot the Doom Patrol from scratch, but, on the contrary, was told that this was the way DC had already decided it wanted the DP handled by anyone who did a new series about them. Take it or leave it. I'm told that the Reboot has already been thoroughly Un-Rebooted, and I'm also told that Dan DiDio has allegedly said that this was the Master Plan for the Doom Patrol all along.

The Warlord. Rebooted in 2006. His previous regular series had lasted 132 issues back in the 1970s and 80s (and I have all those stories in my collection), plus a bunch of annuals, a six-issue miniseries, and all sorts of guest appearances in other people's titles over the years. All of that is now gone with the wind.

At least some of the Charlton Comics characters were "rebooted" when they were integrated into the post-Crisis DCU.

For instance, Captain Atom started over from scratch in a series written by Cary Bates, in which he was becoming the superhero Captain Atom "for the very first time" and none of his old Charlton adventures had ever happened. I believe the same thing happened to Peacemaker.

I am told, on the other hand, that the Blue Beetle and the Question kept a fair piece of their pre-DC continuity (allowing for the fact that it had now happened to them as part of their retconned participation in the mainstream DCU instead of some other parallel world).

I believe that all of DC's Impact line in the early 90s constituted "Reboots" of characters owned by Archie, since these heroes were generally being presented as people just now getting their special powers, etc., instead of seasoned veterans who had survived all the stories previously published about them by another company or companies. That would include the following characters: The Shield, The Fly, The Comet, The Black Hood, The Jaguar, The Web.

Captain Marvel -- meaning the guy in the red bodysuit with a big yellow thunderbolt on his chest who keeps yelling Shazam!; not any of the heroes Marvel Comics has published using that same alias -- got Rebooted in the miniseries Shazam! A New Beginning in 1987 (written by Roy Thomas). Six years later, in 1993, Captain Marvel got his Second Post-Crisis Reboot in the graphic novel The Power of Shazam! by Jerry Ordway.

Lorendiac
03-28-2006, 07:00 PM
O.M.A.C. I am not familiar with the original Jack Kirby stories from the 70s, but one source said that the John Byrne mini was essentially a Reboot of the "One Man Army Corps" character concept instead of just being a "sequel" to Kirby's previous work.

Rip Hunter, Time Master got a big Post-Crisis Reboot in the 8-part Time Masters miniseries published around 1990, which I finally read a few months ago. I have heard that the Rebooted version has been retconned and replaced by a different version, but I could have this wrong. Aside from reading that miniseries, I am no great expert on Rip Hunter's continuity.

Hugo Strange is a Batman villain who definitely got Rebooted. As near as I can tell, none of the story arcs that ever featured him as a villain in the Earth-1 Batman's continuity survived into the Batman continuity of the Post-Crisis DCU. They have been replaced by various Post-Crisis story arcs.

Animal Man got rebooted "onstage" in Grant Morrison's run, according to one source. I'm afraid I'm not familiar with that one so I don't know exactly what happened.

The Crime Syndicate of America (Superwoman, Ultraman, Owlman, Power Ring, and Johnny Quick, characters from Earth-3 in the pre-Crisis Multiverse) first got heavily retconned, and then later got completely Rebooted in Grant Morrison's graphic novel JLA: Earth-2 in 1999. The earlier retcon had said that the oldtime JLA had still fought a Crime Syndicate of America, but they weren't from a parallel Earth; they were from Qward. In Morrison's graphic novel, however, the JLA met his version of the CSA for the first time without anyone ever saying, "Gosh, don't these people remind you of that time when some of us fought five bad guys with the same codenames back in the early days of the JLA?" Thus we can deduce this was a Reboot and the older Post-Crisis version no longer existed in continuity.

Supergirl is a very difficult case to analyze. By my count, there have been 16 Supergirl characters in stories that were "in continuity" in either the Pre-Crisis or Post-Crisis DCU. For the moment, let's just recognize that the "classic" Silver Age, Earth-1 Supergirl -- Kara Zor-El -- died in COIE and then was retroactively erased from continuity, to boot. The Kara Zor-El Supergirl who popped up a couple of years ago in the Superman/Batman title was Jeph Loeb's "Total Reboot" of the Kara Zor-El of the Pre-Crisis version. We'll just ignore all the other Supergirls for the time being. If anyone really is dying to know about the other 14 Supergirls on my list, just follow this link! (http://www.thekryptonian.com/showthread.php?t=7802) :)

The Creeper is supposed to have a full Reboot coming up in 2006. Past continuity thrown out the window!

I am told that Grant Morrison has effectively Rebooted Klarion the Witch Boy in his "Seven Soldiers of Victory" stories published in 2005. Word has it that Klarion's previous appearances, particularly the "Sins of Youth" crossover event from several years ago, simply never happened.

I am also told that Kid Eternity and Shade the Changing Man eventually got Rebooted in Vertigo series. I don't really know much about them, personally, so I don't know if it's strictly accurate to say that their previous continuity has been flushed down the toilet and forgotten.

Hawkman. Initially the Silver Age Hawkman, Katar Hol of Thanagar, was believed to have survived COIE without any particular changes. Ditto for his loving wife, Hawkgirl. I've seen them in a John Byrne Post-Crisis Superman story when they used their starship to help him go get a close look at the remnants of his native world of Krypton, and I remember seeing them get some appearances in the earlier issues of the Giffen/DeMatteis era of the JLI, wherein Katar would complain about how the clowns now calling themselves the Justice League couldn't hold a candle to the old-school JLA of the good old days. But then, in 1989, Tim Truman started doing Hawkworld. I think it was first a three-part mini, then an ongoing series, and the general idea (for awhile) seemed to be that all the old Silver Age/Bronze Age appearances of Katar Hol were now being tossed out the window.

I have never been a regular collector of any of the various series about Hawkman, Hawkworld, etc., so I'm going to leave it at that and hope my second-hand understanding is "correct" as far as it goes. I have no intention of delving into subsequent Hawkman-related retcons right now! (Do I look like a masochist? You don't have to answer that question, actually.)

The situation of Jason Todd (Robin II) is ambiguous. He definitely received a brand new (and bad) origin story after COIE, but my definition of a Reboot requires more than just "one origin story got replaced with another one." I realized a couple of years ago that there is not a general consensus among Batman fans regarding how much (if anything) of his Pre-Crisis adventures as Robin managed to carry over into the Post-Crisis Bat-continuity as having presumably "still happened" to him at some point prior to his death in "A Death in the Family."

****

That's all I've got right now. As usual, I welcome constructive criticism if I made any mistakes or completely skipped anyone who belongs on this list.

Remember, though, that when I mentioned the Superman Reboot of twenty years ago, I assume that this "naturally includes" Reboots of Lois Lane, Lana Lang, Lex Luthor, Brainiac, and all the other traditional members of his supporting cast. Likewise, when I talk about the Legion of Super-Heroes getting rebooted, I don't feel the need to list every single character who's ever been a member of one version or another of the Legion! :)

Damo
03-28-2006, 08:53 PM
Richard Dragon The 2004 series lasted 12 issues and threw away essentially everything ever established about Richard Dragon. The character had been a spiritual martial arts master, spy, and reformed thief who was trained alongside Bronze Tiger by the over 100 year old O-Sensei, and who went on himself to be a spiritual guide to The Huntress and The Question. The new version was a young punk kid who had never been a thief, a spy, or spiritual, who had been trained by Bronze Tiger and who went around the world fighting in "underground martial arts tournaments" often killing his enemies. Dixon included a picture of him training the Question martial arts, but seeing as how this version of Dragon was never spiritual, apparently he wasn't the one to teach The Question eastern philosophy and basically define who The Question is today.

MWGallaher
03-28-2006, 09:33 PM
Kamandi: At Earth's End. They kind of cheated on this one by slapping an "Elseworlds" logo on it, but it wasn't an Elseworlds in the tradition of most of the other ones by any means. That is, not "Kamandi in World War I" or anything like that, just Kamandi without the talking animals. What's the point of that?
Huntress. Helena Wayne, gone and forgotten. Now it's about Helena Bertinelli, no relation, but a similar costume and weapon. No history of the previous version still applied.
Other contenders might include Stanley and His Monster (starting afresh in then-present day with the Phil Foglio miniseries).

DDM
03-29-2006, 09:37 AM
The Huntress (Helena Bertenilli) She got a complete revamp who first appears in The Huntress #1, but also appears in Justice League America #26 which came out the same month in 1989. Joe Staton, who created the original Earth-2 Huntress, creates the new post-Crisis Huntress. Helena Bertinelli is a high school teacher who is secretly the Huntress. She is far more violent than Batman. The Huntress has served as a member of the Justice League International (against her will due to Maxwell Lord's influence) then she joined the Justice League of America with Batman's help. The Huntress was kicked out the Justice League of America when she became too violent for the team. The Huntress original series ran for 19 issues before being cancelled. She has been a regular member in Birds of Prey & a supporting character in many Batman books. She has had a few Huntress limited series along the way. The Huntress is a complete reboot started in 1989.

Shem the Penman
03-29-2006, 10:45 AM
Regarding the Vertigo Shade the Changing Man: Yes, that was a reboot. Milligan took some names and concepts and tossed everything else. He eventually dismissed the original Ditko series as hallucinations Shade had while crossing the Area of Madness -- but that doesn't explain how Shade could have been a member of the Suicide Squad not too long before the Vertigo series started.

As for Kid Eternity, the Morrison and Nocenti series were theoretically a reboot, but they were different enough from the original version of the character that they could be ignored if a writer really wanted -- for whatever reason -- to use the original Kid Eternity. Same way, for instance, that Alex Ross's US miniseries had no impact on the use of Uncle Sam in the mainstream DCU.

rexpop
03-29-2006, 12:39 PM
O.M.A.C is a tricky one as from what I remember it involved time travel and a time Loop. The original Kirby adventures still happened, they just happened in a different iteration of the time loop which was created when O.M.A.C went back in time.

Shellhead
03-29-2006, 01:00 PM
Wasn't Prez retconned out of existence in the pages of Sandman?

DDM
03-29-2006, 01:13 PM
O.M.A.C is a tricky one as from what I remember it involved time travel and a time Loop. The original Kirby adventures still happened, they just happened in a different iteration of the time loop which was created when O.M.A.C went back in time.

You are correct. The original OMAC takes place in an alternate reality.

Shem the Penman
03-29-2006, 02:19 PM
Wasn't Prez retconned out of existence in the pages of Sandman?

Not out of existence, although he was changed considerably. Prez is technically, kinda, sorta part of DCU continuity, since he met Supergirl once ... but he's in the section of continuity that most folks prefer to kick under the rug and forget (see also: Mopee).

sudoku
03-29-2006, 06:16 PM
Nice list!

I would not categorize Animal Man as a reboot. Although his origin was heavily retconned, the Morrison run made reference to some of his pre-crisis adventures. He did not start over in Animal 1.

I also would not count the Huntress as a reboot any more than I would call Tim Drake a reboot a Robin. The pre-crisis and post-crisis Huntresses are simply different characters.

For info on all the different versions of Rip Hunter, check out this site (http://www.adamarnold.net/riphunter/).

MWGallaher
03-29-2006, 06:31 PM
I also would not count the Huntress as a reboot any more than I would call Tim Drake a reboot a Robin. The pre-crisis and post-crisis Huntresses are simply different characters.


Gotta disagree. When Tim Drake debuted, Dick Grayson's career as Robin was still canon (even if every particular adventure that had been published was not. The post-crisis Huntress was obviously based on the previous incarnation (purple costume, pointy mask, crossbow) but the first Huntress's entire history was erased. This wasn't a legacy, this was taking the basic character, costume, and motif and recasting it as an all-new, never-before-seen character. The very definition of a reboot to me.

glennsim
03-30-2006, 07:38 AM
I would say there could be some debate over Superman as being rebooted via Man of Steel. It wasn't that none of his previous stories were are part of his history, you just weren't sure which ones were and which ones weren't. In Action #650, the Justice League reflected on an adventure they had with Superman that was basically a pre-Crisis story, albeit with some minor changes.

In a way, he's the opposite of Jason Todd. With Jason Todd, you could keep most of it, but you did have to throw out a significant portion. With Superman, you had to throw out most of it, but there are several stories that survive.

douglasdubh
04-02-2006, 08:33 PM
I am told that Grant Morrison has effectively Rebooted Klarion the Witch Boy in his "Seven Soldiers of Victory" stories published in 2005. Word has it that Klarion's previous appearances, particularly the "Sins of Youth" crossover event from several years ago, simply never happened.

It looks like this has also happened with Shining Knight.

glennsim
04-02-2006, 09:19 PM
It looks like this has also happened with Shining Knight.

There was some language in the mini-series about there being more than one Camelot and more than one Shining Knight, so this one doesn't invalidate the previous one.

Kon-L
04-02-2006, 10:06 PM
Also as shown in Superboy #50-56, the talking animals from Kamandi now live on an island in the Pacific in the current time.