Yes. It's ANOTHER Iraq thread!

[BlairH]

Seems like ol' Ivan got himself a few spies in the US military. Apparently they were feeding intel back to Saddam during the Invision in '03.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060324/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_iraq_war

Hey Lubichev! You know anything about this? ;)

[Cotton]

Saddam should've known better than to trust Russian military intelligence. The last time they got anything right was their triumphant victory over the Reichstag and that was more than 60 plus years ago.

[BlairH]

Saddam should've known better than to trust Russian military intelligence. The last time they got anything right was their triumphant victory over the Reichstag and that was more than 60 plus years ago.

You wouldn't think the Russian Military would lend their good reputation to such a doomed military endevaur as the defense of Iraq.

[Adam Crocker]

Interesting, but this being long after the fact I suppose the main question is, does any of what's come to light have a bearing on how the occupation turned out? Given what was aired the article and the summary of the report's basic findings so far at the end of the article, not whole lot.

The other question though is how might this affect U.S.-Russian relations?

[Cotton]

You wouldn't think the Russian Military would lend their good reputation to such a doomed military endevaur as the defense of Iraq.

"No one answered the phones at the Defense Ministry" According to the Article. It's like a kid getting caught with his hands in the cookie jar.

But seriously though, why would Saddam trust Russia, being as paranoid as he was? I got the impression that maybe Russia was trying to provide misinformation because the article made it seem as if Russian intel hurt the Iraqi Army more than it helped it.

[darkkeeperjr]

What could the tell sadam anyway? "they're coming with planes and bombs. they gonna bomb the city back to the stone ages." "Shock and awe! you better run!"

Another question would be, what is the russians doing for saddam now?

[Iangould]

A few points come to mind here:

1. We know elements within Saddam's regime were lying to him about matters such as the state of their WMD program so it's quite possible this stuff was fabricated by someone in the Foreign Ministry who was quietly trouserng the money he was supposedly paying the Russians.

"The Americans will by-pass the cities in the south and head straight for Baghdad" was hardly a top-secret matter. Most military commentators were saying the same thing.

Similarly, considering the public furore over the attempt to get access via Turkey "The Americans will attempt to secure the Kirkuk oil-fields" didn't take a rocket-scientist or a spy.

2. I heard on the radio that at least some of the information given was inaccurate and reflected deliberate US misinformation efforts - which might simply mean the US had identified the Russians' sources in their own forces and turned them.

3. It's possible that the Russians were simply trying to convince the Iraqis the Americans were deadly serious and that the time for bluffing was over and Saddam should step down and leave the country.

[Wesley Dodds]

More importantly, look at the photo on that page -- Saddam wears glasses!

Just like George Bush!

http://static.userland.com/sh4/images/booknotes/bushWithGlasses.jpg

Geeze, you two, wear those glasses in public, people won't think you're any less mmanly.

[Iangould]

From the radio report I was talking about:

The report says the US assault on Baghdad would not begin before the arrival of the Army's 4th Infantry Division - which Turkey had barred from entering Iraq from the north via Turkish territory - around April 15.

In fact, Baghdad fell about a week before that date.

"Significantly, the regime was also receiving intelligence from the Russians that fed suspicions that the attack out of Kuwait was merely a diversion," the report stated, citing the March 24 document.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200603/s1600674.htm

[OzBat!]

I vote that we combine all these Iraq threads into one new Iraq thread after bombing the hell out of their supporters, and then retreat quickly and let the factions battle it out for supremacy!

IanGould has the obvious numerical superiority and I think the tactical intelligence ascendancy.

But BlairH has the guns!

Who would win??

[Weetomuncher]

I think the Brits and US should send Ray Tate into Iraq to bore the enemy to death.

Airdrop some of Gail and Dan Slott's books into Iraq and it will cheer up the weary residents and spread some fun in their lives. Of course, I don't think Iraqis would understand the thing about keeping your wallet in your front pocket...

The Iraqis would then kill Ray Tate for criticising Gail.

Bingo, two birds killed with one stone

EDIT: I forgot I was posting into the Community Forum and not YABS. Ray Tate is a really annoying reviewer from Silver Bullet Comics that has been giving Gail Simone really obnoxious reviews for no real reason.

[Adam Crocker]

I think the Brits and US should send Ray Tate into Iraq to bore the enemy to death.

And believe me, that would work.

[Michael P]

Of course, I don't think Iraqis would understand the thing about keeping your wallet in your front pocket...

Well, we'll just tell them we Americans don't get it either.

[Charles RB]

That's interesting. What benefit would Russia gain from doing this? I can see that they might want to protect their economic interests and convince Saddam the Americans were serious so he'd piss off, but giving Saddam US military info sounds above and beyond. It could be fabricated by someone from Saddam's regime, except Russia's not answering questions and that sounds odd behaviour if it was fabricated.

And the big question is- does the Pentagon know who the spies where and what are they doing about them?

[Alex]

But BlairH has the guns!

Who would win??
Guns always win, but if ian gets the media to constantly film blair so he can't turn his guns on every city, thus murdering civilians but ending Ian's insurgency, Blair will lose due to his inability to throw away all sembalance of morals.
Blair will attempt to put panties on the heads of ian's men though.

[BlairH]

Guns always win, but if ian gets the media to constantly film blair so he can't turn his guns on every city, thus murdering civilians but ending Ian's insurgency, Blair will lose due to his inability to throw away all sembalance of morals.
Blair will attempt to put panties on the heads of ian's men though.

I like how you appeal to right-wing paranoia and left-wing paranoia in the same paragraph! ("The liberals control ALL the media, and hence control US!" and "The right-wing militia guys want to KILL US ALL!" respectivley) :D

[Adam Crocker]

That's interesting. What benefit would Russia gain from doing this? I can see that they might want to protect their economic interests and convince Saddam the Americans were serious so he'd piss off, but giving Saddam US military info sounds above and beyond.

Yeah, but none of it seems to have really been anything that was hidden. In fact, as Ian points out many of the things Russia related to Saddam about the U.S.' military plans was common knowledge so they were probably trying to convince him that bluffing shouldn't work and he should step down and leave the country. Now what could they gain from this? I'm not sure, save for the idea that him stepping down might make the change of power in Iraq go smoother. Which might take some of the wind out of the issue of the legitimacy of whose in power since the the head of the government left rather than put up a fight. Though it strikes me as a fairly tenuous one given that the insurgency has puttered on regardless of Saddam's status, and there's still the reasons for the invasion to consider in regards to legitimacy.

[K'Nort]

I still don't understand the whole "the Russians are our friends now" thing in general.

[Charles RB]

I still don't understand the whole "the Russians are our friends now" thing in general.

Well, do you really want them as enemies? Let's just be glad that Nick Fury is ready to covertly send Frank Castle to infiltrate and steal bioweapons from Russian bases at a moment's notice...

[BlairH]

Well, do you really want them as enemies? Let's just be glad that Nick Fury is ready to covertly send Frank Castle to infiltrate and steal bioweapons from Russian bases at a moment's notice...

If you want to break into a "secure" Russian missile base: Here's how!


...and that's how simple it is!

Frank is awesome.

[Iangould]

That's interesting. What benefit would Russia gain from doing this?

The Russian ambassador's name has appeared on the lsits of alleged recipients of Iraqi bribes.

So it may have just been a bit of free enterprise spying.

[Iangould]

I still don't understand the whole "the Russians are our friends now" thing in general.

Russia and America were friendly or actual allies most of the time up until the Russian Revolution.

They had a common interest in limiting the expansion of French and British power.

During the Civil War, the British and French supported the south and Russia was the main European power supporting the north. (Russia secretly loaned several million dollars to the north. After the war, both sides needed to disguise the repayment of the loans so they cooked up the "sale" of a worthless piece of real estate - Alaska.)