Captain America #16 - Review and SPOILERS [Archive]

Jake V

03-22-2006, 05:22 PM

Can't believe no one started a thread for the last issue. Anyway, this one was great. I'm gonna forego the summary because you should buy the issue to see what happens in it, but I guess I sorta have to touch on some plot points.

The Crossbones/Sin relationship is very Mickey and Mallory, I really like how it's going, and it's a nice counterpoint to the Cap/Sharon Carter relationship that is developing.

About that relationship, well, it really heats up this issue. It's nice to see Cap do something that human for a change.

The town Cap and Sharon visit while in the trail for The Winter Soldier/Bucky was appropriately creepy. I imagine that nearly the towns entire population is AIM agents, and the ending might be an indicator of that.

And finally, for continuity nuts, this arc seems to take 6 months after the previous arc, making the timeline more in line with New Avenger's current timeline. All the pieces are in place; The New Avengers get mentioned, Fury is out, Maria Hill is in as director of SHIELD, and Bucky got a haircut.

As far as the art goes, it's nice that Perkins seems to have a style that's a lot like Epting's style, so the book has some consistency to it. D'armata doing the coloring really helps that out.

Great issue, all in all. 8.5 outta ten.

Expletive Deleted

03-22-2006, 05:26 PM

Between this and DAREDEVIL, Brubaker had a hell of a week.

Great stuff.

ultramandingo

03-22-2006, 08:53 PM

so cap cant get drunk ( sucks .. i wana see drunken cap'n a " g-dam reds.....back in my day.......what are are yoo lookn at..... ill kick yor hippy asss........) , but he get the laidies!!!!!! ......thou they both keep their under pants on !! just in case batrok the leaper or some lame-o attacks i guess

Volk1

03-22-2006, 09:49 PM

Between this and DAREDEVIL, Brubaker had a hell of a week.

Great stuff.

Hit the nail on the head.

About that relationship, well, it really heats up this issue. It's nice to see Cap do something that human for a change.

I liked it too. A far cry from what we've been seeing lately.

"I'm not drunk. I can't. I'm just happy." What a great line from Cap. Hey man, as long as you don't drink and drive. :p

I still don't understand that photo behind the check-in desk. Is that supposed to indicate Sin and Bucky were together at one point?

If so, Bucky was one sneaky dude back then....

Red State Cap

03-23-2006, 12:45 AM

StoneGold

03-23-2006, 12:51 AM

I was highly unimpressed by this issue.

Not exactly. I'm the guy that doesn't like the fact that Bucky has been resurrected and so I dropped the book in protest.
You, sir, are a cad and a liar! I demand satisfaction!

Jake V

03-23-2006, 12:54 AM

I was highly unimpressed by this issue.
First and foremost, it seems to me that the book is showing a case of "decompression sickness." The plot has been dragging badly for several issues (though not to the level of New Avengers) and IMHO it needs to be tightened up. It's probably not to the level that I would drop it if I hadn't already, but there's some room for improvement here.
Second, the whole "creepy town that isn't what it seems to be" is pretty cliched. Maybe my expectations are too high, but honestly that's the first thing I thought when I browsed it.
Third, Sharon. I really do dislike the Sharon thing, but moreso I dislike the fact that it is being reprised for the fourth time. It's not original. It's boring. There is nothing that could possibly happen that would raise my interest in it, either positive or negative.

RSC
Wow! It's a good thing you didn't actually pay to read the book you formed that review from! What a bummer that would have been!

Sorry you didn't like the issue.

Red State Cap

03-23-2006, 01:04 AM

Wow! It's a good thing you didn't actually pay to read the book you formed that review from! What a bummer that would have been!
Sorry you didn't like the issue.
Ah yes, the old comic-book catch-22: "If you're buying it you can't criticize it because you must like it enough to buy it, and if you're not buying it then you don't have the right to criticize it."

RSC

Jake V

03-23-2006, 01:13 AM

Ah yes, the old comic-book catch-22: "If you're buying it you can't criticize it because you must like it enough to buy it, and if you're not buying it then you don't have the right to criticize it."

RSC
It isn't really quite as simple as that, but you accurately described the generalities of the situation.

Was there a point somewhere in there?

Will.S

03-23-2006, 01:38 AM

The book is awesome and I'm glad that it's finally taking place post New Avengers.

Crossbones and Sin are really a dangerous duo, sorta Bonnie and Clyde'ish in a way but I can't wait for Cap and Sharon to take them out. Cap should be able to beat the crap out of Crossbones now that he's in a better state of mind. I wondering what it is Steve noticed in the motel about the picture aside from knowing that the motel was a trap.

And it looks like Bucky is indeed on a path seeking for redemption with the cool little action sequence he had with the spider, I guess he upgraded his arm with a component that breaks down metal (maybe a form of vibranium inside the arm?). The cliffhanger was pretty interesting, A.I.M. seeking help from Cap....that's a new one. AIM probably has a secret base in the town with someone having a vendetta against them using that spider-robot. I like Sharon and Cap's relationship being rekindled again, she's a normal girl and works with him at the same time so he doesn't neglect her or anything as well as having the added bonus of being able to take care of herself.

The art was very good, Mike Perkins keeps up a solid consistency that is his own yet not too far off from Steve Epting's style either. Frank D'Armata's coloring is ruch and slick, among the best colorists out today. All in all, it had action, intruige and Cap and Sharon hooking up. Simply put, Brubaker owns my balls.

jpk

03-23-2006, 04:12 AM

Nice job by Brubaker to bring everything up to date/into continuity. I can understand some of the negative criticism -- but only because the Winter Soldier arc was so damn good, anything will be a little letdown by comparison. I still enjoyed it and give it an 8/10.

PS: Cap explained in the MK run that he can't get drunk because his metabolism is too fast. A side effect of the super-solider serum, apparently.

Cayman

03-23-2006, 08:18 AM

Anyone have a scan of the Winter Soldier with his haircut?

Cay

Dial Tone

03-23-2006, 09:15 AM

I was highly unimpressed by this issue.
First and foremost, it seems to me that the book is showing a case of "decompression sickness." The plot has been dragging badly for several issues (though not to the level of New Avengers) and IMHO it needs to be tightened up. It's probably not to the level that I would drop it if I hadn't already, but there's some room for improvement here.
Second, the whole "creepy town that isn't what it seems to be" is pretty cliched. Maybe my expectations are too high, but honestly that's the first thing I thought when I browsed it.
Third, Sharon. I really do dislike the Sharon thing, but moreso I dislike the fact that it is being reprised for the fourth time. It's not original. It's boring. There is nothing that could possibly happen that would raise my interest in it, either positive or negative.

RSC

Do you like to bitch THAT much or something? How many times are you going to complain that you quit reading the book (while whining and complaining about the reasons why) only to read the next issue and gripe more about what you didn't like.

Do you really think the comic is the problem at this point? Geez...since I hate New Avengers, should I read every issue and bitch about why I hate it?

I'm glad I've got better things to do.

MrBeebs37

03-23-2006, 12:39 PM

Red State Cap

03-23-2006, 01:04 PM

Do you like to bitch THAT much or something? How many times are you going to complain that you quit reading the book (while whining and complaining about the reasons why) only to read the next issue and gripe more about what you didn't like.
Do you really think the comic is the problem at this point? Geez...since I hate New Avengers, should I read every issue and bitch about why I hate it?
I'm glad I've got better things to do.
Actually, I have seen you griping on New Avengers threads, so pot -- meet kettle.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with dropping the book for a reason of principle yet keeping up with the story. I think I've always been up-front with the things I still like about the book as well as the things I dislike. I'll read #17, and if there's something in it I like, I'll say so. If there's something in it I dislike, I'll say so. I actually kinda liked #16's violence and bed scene (I've seen complaints about those) but otherwise I just was not impressed with #16. Others are, which is fine.
The bottom line here is that the fans don't like to hear criticism, only unqualified praise. That seems to be a characterstic of comic-book fans in general. As I said above, it's the old "you can't criticize the book if you're buying it, because you must like it enought to buy it, and if you're not buying it you don't have the right to criticize it." Well, I don't subscribe to that catch-22.

RSC

Ed Brubaker

03-23-2006, 01:34 PM

Guys -- It's perfectly fine for RSC to complain if he doesn't like the book. He's still reading it, even if he's not buying it, so it's not like he's just going off recaps posted by other people online. It's a bit boring to see him getting jumped on every month, seriously.

There is indeed, a grand scheme to this book going on right now, and this arc is about introducing one big part of it. It'll continue into the next arc, in London.

Dial Tone

03-23-2006, 03:26 PM

Actually, I have seen you griping on New Avengers threads, so pot -- meet kettle.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with dropping the book for a reason of principle yet keeping up with the story. I think I've always been up-front with the things I still like about the book as well as the things I dislike. I'll read #17, and if there's something in it I like, I'll say so. If there's something in it I dislike, I'll say so. I actually kinda liked #16's violence and bed scene (I've seen complaints about those) but otherwise I just was not impressed with #16. Others are, which is fine.
The bottom line here is that the fans don't like to hear criticism, only unqualified praise. That seems to be a characterstic of comic-book fans in general. As I said above, it's the old "you can't criticize the book if you're buying it, because you must like it enought to buy it, and if you're not buying it you don't have the right to criticize it." Well, I don't subscribe to that catch-22.

RSC

First of all, I have rarely offered any comments about New Avengers, unlike you, who constantly complains.

Second, I don't buy NA, unlike you who buys Cap and whines and bitches every month.

If you honestly don't see the difference, please, get out of the house and get some fresh air once in awhile.

UniqueFrequency

03-23-2006, 10:11 PM

i liked this issue. it moved at a good pace and it really read like there was some urgency about the whole thing

i wish Epting was doing the art though. Perkins does a very good similar style, but i fancy Epting does faces a little better

Red State Cap

03-24-2006, 12:24 AM

First of all, I have rarely offered any comments about New Avengers, unlike you, who constantly complains.
Second, I don't buy NA, unlike you who buys Cap and whines and bitches every month.
If you honestly don't see the difference, please, get out of the house and get some fresh air once in awhile.
First, you've lately offered as many negative comments about New Avengers as I have about Captain America. I can go look up your posts if you really want to push this point. In fact, I didn't comment at all on the CA#15 Review thread, which you can verify for yourself.
Second, as you would have known if you read this thread a bit more carefully, I've already dropped Captain America -- after #9 in fact.
So there really isn't a difference between the two of us.
You don't like my criticisms? You think they're wrong? Fine, I respect that. Build a logical argument why you think I'm wrong and get a discussion going. Let's get this thread back on topic.

RSC

Dial Tone

03-24-2006, 07:43 AM

First, you've lately offered as many negative comments about New Avengers as I have about Captain America. I can go look up your posts if you really want to push this point. In fact, I didn't comment at all on the CA#15 Review thread, which you can verify for yourself.
Second, as you would have known if you read this thread a bit more carefully, I've already dropped Captain America -- after #9 in fact.
So there really isn't a difference between the two of us.
You don't like my criticisms? You think they're wrong? Fine, I respect that. Build a logical argument why you think I'm wrong and get a discussion going. Let's get this thread back on topic.

RSC

Be my guest and point out my negative NA comments.

And it's easy to say "I quit buying the book", but it's also easy to see that you haven't by your continued whining after reading every issue.

And I remember you claiming to have dropped the book after issue #14. Now it's #9? Um...whatever. It's just sad that you continue complaining and still buying the book. I guess some people want to be miserable.

As far as the issue goes, it was not the strongest Brubaker issue. It's still good, but not the greatness that I've come to expect. I like Perkins, but the book definitely needs Steve Epting back quickly.

The Shadow

03-24-2006, 09:27 AM

There is indeed, a grand scheme to this book going on right now, and this arc is about introducing one big part of it. It'll continue into the next arc, in London.
Ed... the man with a plan (in a band? with great big hands? and lots of fans?) ... moving on... :rolleyes:

Loved the issue.

It was a nice change of pace as far as a story went... and inlike what another poster said about the town no being what it seems cliche... I gotta admit I kinda like it. The ending was a surprise with the AIM agents needing Cap's help and I wonder if the WHOLE TOWN (minus the guy in the bar) isn't an AIM front!

Though I'm enjoying this I am REALLY looking forward to the trip to London and possibly some Invaders appearing!!!

Keep up the good work Ed, and pass on kudo's to the art team, as well.

ColdFury

03-24-2006, 12:01 PM

Actually, I have seen you griping on New Avengers threads, so pot -- meet kettle.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with dropping the book for a reason of principle yet keeping up with the story.

Not to jump into the dogpile on you here, you're entitled to your opinion and all, but I'd just like to point out that when someone says they're doing something "out of principle" that usually means they're justifying doing something incredibly unintelligent.

I work for a cell phone company and when I point out that someone is threatening to cancel their service and pay a $200 ETF over a $5 fee that they *think* isn't fair (when it usually is a valid charge), they come back to me with "It's the principle of the matter".

So yeah. Usually those words are used to justify something that would otherwise be unintelligent.

Personally, I love this book, and if I was playing for the other team I'd send Mr. Brubaker a box of chocolates accompanied with a bouquet of flowers, because I've always *wanted* to like a Captain America book, but they've always been corny or stale or emo. The Winter Soldier arc... this Sin arc... these are awesome.

Red State Cap

03-24-2006, 12:16 PM

Be my guest and point out my negative NA comments.
And it's easy to say "I quit buying the book", but it's also easy to see that you haven't by your continued whining after reading every issue.
And I remember you claiming to have dropped the book after issue #14. Now it's #9? Um...whatever. It's just sad that you continue complaining and still buying the book. I guess some people want to be miserable.
As far as the issue goes, it was not the strongest Brubaker issue. It's still good, but not the greatness that I've come to expect. I like Perkins, but the book definitely needs Steve Epting back quickly.
I dropped the book after #9. I would've bought #10, but the story was weak, and in #11 it was finally revealed definitively whether WS was Bucky or not. That was the information I was waiting for to make my decision, so #9 was my last issue.
Your belief that I have stated otherwise is false, as is your belief that I have been constantly posting negative comments. I did not post at all on the CA Review threads #15, 14, and 13. My only post on CA #12 was this one:
Well, at least Sam is done swilling latte in whatever French cafe he's been inhabiting since CA&F #14.
RSC
The CA #11 review thread -- five months ago -- was the last time I made criticisms on the CA Review thread. Additionally I started a separate critical thread about John Byrne's comments regarding Bucky -- four months ago.
You may verify all this with the handy "seach" function.
As you seem to be unable to comprehend how someone could keep up with a book they have dropped, let me make it explicit: I read the issue at the shop, but I don't buy it. You can either take that or leave it, I don't care.
It would be in your own best interest to stop with the personal attacks. In your attempt to save face, you are only digging yourself a bigger hole and further derailing this thread.
If you can actually make an argument as to why you disagree with what I've said -- good and bad -- about this issue, I will be happy to respond. Otherwise I will no longer respond to personal attacks in the interests of getting this thread back on topic.

RSC

Dial Tone

03-24-2006, 11:28 PM

It would be in your own best interest to stop with the personal attacks. In your attempt to save face, you are only digging yourself a bigger hole and further derailing this thread.

RSC

How about you stop deciding what's in my "best interest". How old are you? You don't come off as very old.

And quit acting as if this is the only place you post and 5 months ago was the last time you've whined, as you've constantly done it.

It would be in YOUR best interest to stop spoiling the fun that Cap fans are enjoying by posting your negativity.

You don't like it? DON'T READ IT AND QUIT BITCHING!

Slumber Hulk

03-24-2006, 11:51 PM

I work for a cell phone company and when I point out that someone is threatening to cancel their service and pay a $200 ETF over a $5 fee that they *think* isn't fair (when it usually is a valid charge), they come back to me with "It's the principle of the matter".

That was you! I'm still only getting two bars!

ultramandingo

03-25-2006, 10:51 AM

[QUOTE=Dial Tone

You don't like it? DON'T READ IT AND QUIT BITCHING![/QUOTE]

hey , thats half the fun of reading comics and posting. how boring would this place be if every one was all " hey dude you rock !!!!! your the best cap writer ever!!".......

oh and brubaker.." hey dude you rock !!!!! your the best cap writer ever!!".......

Capt USA

03-25-2006, 12:10 PM

hey , thats half the fun of reading comics and posting. how boring would this place be if every one was all " hey dude you rock !!!!! your the best cap writer ever!!".......

oh and brubaker.." hey dude you rock !!!!! your the best cap writer ever!!".......

with the exception that he likes sharon more than diamondback. (best 'badgirl' girlfriend ever, better than catwoman, better than black cat-although that isn't really saying much)

Not 100% sure he is the best Captain America writer ever, but he is on the short list, and if we were rating on average quality of each issue then he would be number one. (still hate killing off Nomad though)

ultramandingo

03-25-2006, 12:31 PM

with the exception that he likes sharon more than diamondback. (best 'badgirl' girlfriend ever, better than catwoman, better than black cat-although that isn't really saying much)

you want the" best 'badgirl' girlfriend ever" check out brubakers "miss misery" from "sleeper" shed use all those other "bad girls" for ash trays . and do it butt-nacked!!!

Doom Hammer

03-25-2006, 07:52 PM

Amazing!

A whole lot happened in this book. It was awesome to see Bucky in action as an honest-to-goodess super-hero, fighting against super-viallanous things. That was the highlight of the issue, for me. Brubaker reversed a secret (though loophole-ridden) death and came out on top. Wow.

The other stuff was great, too. Sin and Crossbones scare the crap out of me.

And for those who complain of decompression -- that's a pretty inaccurate complaint. Cover-to-cover, this book was bouncing all over. Plus, this arc seems to be a small period of down time after the EPIC thirteen-issue Winter Soldier story, and all things considered, it's pretty packed.

Plus, Perkins' art was almost IDENTICAL to Epting's. How does that even work?

Captain America plus Daredevil make me a happy comic fan. Brubaker's book made me love Cap, and his Daredevil is blowing my mind. Good God, in only a few months I'll be getting not two, but three doses of Brubaker monthly goodness. I can't wait for X-Men!

RonnieThunderbolts

03-25-2006, 09:14 PM

Plus, Perkins' art was almost IDENTICAL to Epting's. How does that even work?

The CrossGen experience seemed to definitely pair good groups of artists together. Steve and Mike both worked at CrossGen, and I believe they had a good working relationship, hence the ability of Mike's to use a style in line with Epting's own in the Cap title, for consistency. I don't think I feel they are close to identical, but the general idea I agree with wholeheartedly, they are QUITE similar, and the similarities make it a less than jarring transition to go between the two artists for different arcs and breaks in the main story.

UniqueFrequency

03-25-2006, 10:02 PM

And for those who complain of decompression -- that's a pretty inaccurate complaint. Cover-to-cover, this book was bouncing all over. Plus, this arc seems to be a small period of down time after the EPIC thirteen-issue Winter Soldier story, and all things considered, it's pretty packed.

totally agree with you! as i mentioned in an earlier post, the story was moving a such a pace! there's no way this was a decompressed book

Den

03-27-2006, 07:52 PM

Another excellent issue from start to finish that somehow managed to mix murderous mayhem, a mystery town and a moment of passion for Cap? I especially didn't see the last one coming.

rogerio

03-28-2006, 10:37 AM

you want the" best 'badgirl' girlfriend ever" check out brubakers "miss misery" from "sleeper" shed use all those other "bad girls" for ash trays . and do it butt-nacked!!!

ditto!

Ed Brubaker writtes very strong women...cant wait to see a possible Black Widow appearance in Captain America!

ultramandingo

03-28-2006, 06:26 PM

hows about a black widow , cap , daredevil 3-way!!!............no not like that you freeks , you know what i meen

Kirk G

03-28-2006, 08:10 PM

hows about a black widow , cap , daredevil 3-way!!!............no not like that you freeks , you know what i meen
oh, but we DO know what you mean.... :evilsmile

cable guy

03-29-2006, 05:03 AM

I would just like to thank everyone here who turned me on to this book!

Can't really add anything else that wasn't said.

Great issue nonetheless.

rogerio

03-29-2006, 09:39 AM

hows about a black widow , cap , daredevil 3-way!!!............no not like that you freeks , you know what i meen

yeah...let me invite Sharon Carter to the party!!!
:)
seriously, Steve Epting drawing Natasha could be awesome!

Kirk G

03-29-2006, 07:50 PM

I have to say that this issue made me feel like maybe Brubaker, after dealing with the Bucky thing, doesn't have a clear idea of where to go now. This whole Sin storyline just seems like filler, especially now with big spiders or something and an unnecessary connection to Bucky. I'm not seeing any direction in the storytelling.

Although someone said this was a two-parter (and so, we should wait until issue #17 comes out before judging it) I take it as at least a 3-parter, given the first issue was ALL about the pair and getting her to this point.

Second, if you think there is no point to all this, wait until it all comes together in #17. I've just read the 65th anniversary special edition, and besides creating a WWII tale, it weaves in at least two more connections to modern day that are likely to pay off soon. In particular, I think the photo Cap reacts to in #16 IS the girl in the special edition and so, we will see Bucky/Winter Soldier's motivation for going there in just under a month's time... :evilsmile