NEW AVENGERS #17 - review & spoilers

[Ivan Isaacs]

Maybe you know I'm far from being a huge fan of NA but this issue... yeah... THIS issue rocked!

The Avengers are in Detroit's slum area, doing some PR work and scaring the s*** out of drug dealers et al (Luke Cage gives a great speech about them being Impact Superheroes)

Then there is an emergency call from SHIELD. We see them in the Quinjet were Agent Hill is showing them a record of Alpha Flight's slaughter.

Wolverine: Damn... is that Alpha Flight?
Agent Hill: It was.

Meanwhile The Collective reaches Cleveland's coast, while Tony is requesting assistence from Ms. Marvel and Cap wants Daisy Johnson as back-up. After that he phones Lindy because he wants to know if Clark Looneybin is ready. He's not. Then Cap yells that they need him and he should get up!

The team is breaking up in two parts - Tony... and the rest.
While Holo-Tony (or maybe it is the real Tony and Iron Man's armor is empty. Can't tell) is crosschecking the data banks for any indication of who the attacker may be the real Tony is confronting him.
He intruduces himself, says that he's an Avenger and asks if he has heard of them. The creature stops.
Tony asks him who he is and he says... "Mik... al..."
Tony wants confirmation and asks if his name is "Michael". The creature says "Ys". Holo-Tony asks if his name is Korvac, why he's hurting people and where he's going.
But before "Michael" can answer Carol crashes into him. But "Michael" is overloading her with too much energy and she goes all Binary mode (sort of).

To be continued...

Please Bendis, please don't disappoint me here. Please let it be Michael Korvac! If it is Michael then all is forgotten. ;)
Yeah, a lot of Avengers action and a good portion of humor in the first part.

Also: Deodato's art looks so much better then his Spidey stuff. Hell of an improvement.

[comicfreak]

Hmm. I'll remain sceptical. If it really is Michael Korvac, then Bendis better deliver a good reason for his comeback!

[Expletive Deleted]

Korvac seems unlikely. Given what we know about the link between this threat and HOUSE OF M . . . I don't have any idea who yet (beyond Michael Nowlan (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/nowlanmi.htm) who's too obscurotastic to be a realistic guess), but I'm thinking it has to be a mutant.

Anyway, I liked the issue. Cage's approach to community policing, Iron Man's attempt to reason with Michael, Bob's breakdown, Carol's entrance . . . good stuff.

[unkiedev]

It was great! A truly super issue...my only gripe: I HAVE TO WAIT a WHOLE MONTH (if I'm lucky) for the next ISSUE?!

I wish it was longer/more things happened. I also liked the previews of the pencils...I thought they were amazing and I think the inking/coloring job killed them.

[Lightbend]

Another possible candidate, who already had pretty high level mutant powers:

Michael Rasputin (is that his name?), Colossus' brother.

[Red State Cap]

I am so glad I dropped this book after #15.
After the debacle of #16, wherein the Avengers don't even appear, I expected that #17 would have to have some real plot developments and action. Wrong.
The sum total development of #17 was that Ms. Marvel interfered in whatever was going on (for better or worse?) and got powered up. No battle. So after the "set-up" issue of #16, we get...another "set-up" issue.
At this rate something important might even happen by issue #20.

RSC

[Expletive Deleted]

I am so glad I dropped this book after #15.
After the debacle of #16, wherein the Avengers don't even appear, I expected that #17 would have to have some real plot developments and action. Wrong.If you've already dropped it, what's the problem?

I'm sure a lot of comics I've dropped have continued to suck, but I don't really care because I'm not reading them.

[Loestal]

Another possible candidate, who already had pretty high level mutant powers:

Michael Rasputin (is that his name?), Colossus' brother.

That's Mikhail, but I suppose he could of been saying Mikhail. I'm pretty sure it's a new threat..something to do with the "collective" energy of all the mutants that lost their power. Ya know, that vortex above Earth.

[Ivan Isaacs]

Hmm. I'll remain sceptical. If it really is Michael Korvac, then Bendis better deliver a good reason for his comeback!

Why? He returned once.
I think Korvac has MUCH potential and is not a character that has been written to death like Green Goblin, Magneto, Kang, Dr. Ock or some of the other, more prominent villains.

Korvac seems unlikely. Given what we know about the link between this threat and HOUSE OF M . . . I don't have any idea who yet (beyond Michael Nowlan (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/nowlanmi.htm) who's too obscurotastic to be a realistic guess), but I'm thinking it has to be a mutant.

I think it has at least to be a character who knows Iron Man and/or the Avengers - because "Michael" stopped when Iron Man said who he was.

My other guess is that he's some sort of combined entities - like Korvac and the Beyonder combined or something like that.

Michael Rasputin (is that his name?), Colossus' brother.

Mikhail and IF Bendis isn't ignoring continuity in this case, then Mikhail is not an option because Hine made pretty sure that he cannot return (sure, not even cremating keeps those X-characters from "getting better"... but still).

wherein the Avengers don't even appear

I don't understand why so much people are bothered by this. IF the story was good (and I liked #16) then I couldn't care less, if the main character(s) are in this specific story. The issue for itself is still good.

[Michael P]

That's Mikhail, but I suppose he could of been saying Mikhail.
Same name, different languages.

One question: Who in the name of Irving Forbush is Daisy Johnson?

[damon78]

Umm forgive me for my ignorance but can someone tell me who Michael Korvac is?? i have never heard that name

[Loestal]

Same name, different languages.

One question: Who in the name of Irving Forbush is Daisy Johnson?

Apparently somebody who was in the last Secret War, and pissed Wolverine off.

[Expletive Deleted]

Who in the name of Irving Forbush is Daisy Johnson?Illegitimate daughter of Mr. Hyde. Works for Nick Fury. Has earthquake powers. Appeared in SECRET WAR. Looks a bit like Angelina Jolie in HACKERS.

Here's her profile (http://pics.livejournal.com/wal_lace/pic/000f2623) from the SECRET WAR HANDBOOK.

[Michael P]

Illegitimate daughter of Mr. Hyde. Works for Nick Fury. Has earthquake powers. Appeared in SECRET WAR. Looks a bit like Angelina Jolie in HACKERS.
Right, earthquake girl. I didn't remember her name.

[Jake V]

Same name, different languages.

One question: Who in the name of Irving Forbush is Daisy Johnson?
She last appeared in Secret War. Nick Fury was setting her up to be his protege but that went to hell when he had to disappear. She's got the highest level SHIELD clearance anyone can get, but current SHIELD managment hates her, so she isn't allowed to do anything.

Powers wise, she can create seismic disturbances. Basically she can generate vibrations wherever she wants them, big or small.

She's also Mr Hyde's daughter, but I don't think that really matters that much to her character.

EDIT: Damn, ED beat me to it.

[Michael P]

Basically she can generate vibrations wherever she wants them, big or small.

Bet that comes in handy.

[Expletive Deleted]

EDIT: Damn, ED beat me to it.Ha-Ha! tenchars

[Ivan Isaacs]

Umm forgive me for my ignorance but can someone tell me who Michael Korvac is?? i have never heard that name

Short version:
The best villain the Avengers EVER fought.

The long version:
http://www.leaderslair.com/marvelvillains/korvac.html
(I hope you brought some time with you)

Here's a shorter version (but no images):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korvac

[Hiromi]

Issue easily made up for the last lackluster issue, my favorite in a while.

[Mothmonsterman]

Illegitimate daughter of Mr. Hyde. Works for Nick Fury. Has earthquake powers. Appeared in SECRET WAR. Looks a bit like Angelina Jolie in HACKERS.

Here's her profile (http://pics.livejournal.com/wal_lace/pic/000f2623) from the SECRET WAR HANDBOOK.

So basically some crappy character Bendis created and then decided should be important.

[Haunt]

So basically some crappy character Bendis created and then decided should be important.


bingo. i actually mistook this new character, Director Maria Hill, for her at one point. Bendis has no problem laying his fetishes out for all to see; i'll give him that.

[Tony Starkz]

She last appeared in Secret War. Nick Fury was setting her up to be his protege but that went to hell when he had to disappear. She's got the highest level SHIELD clearance anyone can get, but current SHIELD managment hates her, so she isn't allowed to do anything.

Powers wise, she can create seismic disturbances. Basically she can generate vibrations wherever she wants them, big or small.

She's also Mr Hyde's daughter, but I don't think that really matters that much to her character.

EDIT: Damn, ED beat me to it.

Cool.Never knew badass Mr.Hyde had a daughter.

[madthinker]

The team is breaking up in two parts - Tony...and the rest. While Holo-Tony (or maybe it is the real Tony and Iron Man's armor is empty. Can't tell) is crosschecking the data banks for any indication of who the attacker may be the real Tony is confronting him.
can someone give me a quick explanation on the two tony starks??? i was a bit confused by that...

[Hiromi]

Its Tony's way of maintaning the charade that he's given up being Iron Man, he uses a hologram to make it appear as if he's playing support while Iron Man's actually in the field.

[Jake V]

can someone give me a quick explanation on the two tony starks??? i was a bit confused by that...
There aren't really two Tony's. Holo-Tony is a devise that I think was introduced in Avengers #501, where Tony goes into a kind of VR-mode when he's in his armor where, from his perspective, he's in front of a huge bank of monitors that display all sorts of things.

[Hiromi]

There aren't really two Tony's. Holo-Tony is a devise that I think was introduced in Avengers #501, where Tony goes into a kind of VR-mode when he's in his armor where, from his perspective, he's in front of a huge bank of monitors that display all sorts of things.
Really? I must be mixing it up with what he did in his House of M title then.

[madthinker]

There aren't really two Tony's. Holo-Tony is a devise that I think was introduced in Avengers #501, where Tony goes into a kind of VR-mode when he's in his armor where, from his perspective, he's in front of a huge bank of monitors that display all sorts of things.that was the feeling i got from the issue, thanks for clearing it up...

[Loestal]

Yeah, Tony with the dark room and all the screens is his interface for the armor now, I'm guessing because it's so advanced now.

[Wannabe]

Am I the only one that thought the first pages of The Avengers in Detroit was much more interesting than the Collective?

It really wasn't that fantastic. Over all, I'd say the issue was fairly boring with mediocre art.

[Haunt]

Cool.Never knew badass Mr.Hyde had a daughter.


what i want to know is 1) who was desperate enough to sleep with him and 2) who was both desperate enough and attractive enough to produce an angelina jolie-lookalike child mixing their dna with Hyde's?

[kmeyers]

I really don't like Spider-Man's new look.

[Cayman]

Excellent issue. Nice to see the Avengers back in their book. :p

Cay

[Expletive Deleted]

who was both desperate enough and attractive enough to produce an angelina jolie-lookalike child mixing their dna with Hyde's?Her mother was a prostitute and Zabo's DNA is incredibly unstable.

It's explained in one of the text pieces in SECRET WAR.

[Cayman]

Wonder if Daisy will be on one of the post-CW teams?

Cay

[Haunt]

Wonder if Daisy will be on one of the post-CW teams?

Cay


Freedom Force maybe

[kad939]

Clearly mr. omega level fire person is referring to Michael from Lost.

Everyone's hooked on that show.

[Sabrinaset]

Powers wise, she can create seismic disturbances. Basically she can generate vibrations wherever she wants them, big or small.

Maaaan, I'd save so much money on batteries if Mr. Hyde was MY father.

[ultramandingo]

huh..what hapend ? the art got really sukcy and spiderman looks retarded . ..oh thats better. no wait , its just the "squadon supreme" preview , back to uglyness..... what? chaykin? not that chaykin ! really?...nevermind

[marvelboi77]

I enjoyed the Ms. Marvel spotlight in this issue. It was much better than Ms. Marvel #1.

[The Purple Skull]

Solid issue! Stuff I liked:

- The art. Man I loved Deodato's art here. I think think he's a great fit for the book.
- The opening scene. Great utilization of Luke Cage. Keeps the Avengers grounded. I could see him being the moral center of the team.
- Wolverine. You can almost feel his pain. Like losing a family. Nice touch.

I cannot wait for the fight and arrival of the Senty.

[The Shadow]

Who did the cover?

Steve McNiven?

[The Purple Skull]

Who did the cover?

Steve McNiven?
Yup. He does the covers for 17 and 18.

[Volk1]

bingo. i actually mistook this new character, Director Maria Hill, for her at one point. Bendis has no problem laying his fetishes out for all to see; i'll give him that.

haha so true.

Alright issue, at first I was slightly confused with the whole Avengers being in Detroit scene, I didn't know there was going to be a new artist right away and the Detroit plot was so different from the last issue that I was confused that I had missed an issue.

But alas, all I had to do was keep reading :rolleyes:

I like Ms. Marvel. More Ms. Marvel. And Spidey is not a bench warmer!

Tony's "flight" from Cleveland all the way to Toledo must've been one helluva a ride... :eek:

[Will.S]

Really enjoyed it.

I was wondering when Luke and Cap would get to what Luke was talking about earlier when referring to doing things a certain way and I loved Cage's approach and badass speech. It's definitely an interesting use for the Avengers and it's nothing I've really seen before, you really get a "whoah" street persective from everyone like the kids on the street and the reporters so that was all just well executed. I also liked Wolverine's smirk when he saw Cage punking those drug dealers on the street (with the official Avengers belt buckle!).

Once the New Avengers are informed about the Collective, things get really interesting. It's great to see Iron Man and Captain America just take charge and know what they're getting into by immediately calling in re-enforcements with Ms. Marvel (who's solo) and Sentry who will finally get some play time. The part where Tony talks to Peter was another great moment, the "whoah you're benching me?" was just those Spider-Man moments that I expect from him and Tony acknowledging Peter's smarts and transferring to the helicarrier as part of intel is something I've wanted to see more of as far of Spidey's input on the team goes.

It's too bad Carol blew it by just going right into the fight when IM was going somewhere but then again we need some action! The way the Collective mows everything down in it's path like a tornado makes for an awesome visual, the dude has some insane power judging from his speed and energy, especially after overloading Ms. Marvel so I'm wondering if she's going to expel that energy or store it permanently. It's too bad it ended the way it did since things were ramping up so quickly and well.

The art was surprisingly good, while Mike Deodato didn't blow my socks off it's very capable and well drawn along with Dave Sewart's also surprisingly well textured colors. My only beef is that the sheen on things still don't quite look as well as when D'Armata did them but overall I'm very happy with the art and even Spidey's new look.

9/10

[WolverinesSon]

I have a question. I'm not a big Iron Man reader so I'm not sure about his mechanics. I was reading NA #17 and I noticed that while Iron Man was confronting 'The Collective' he looked like he was in a room with monitors all around him. Does he not wear the Iron Man suit anymore? Does he just control Iron Man from a remote location?? I know in Ultimate Extinction 3 he is shown suiting up. Maybe the Ultimate and 616 versions are different in this sense.

[WolverinesSon]

Please Bendis, please don't disappoint me here. Please let it be Michael Korvac! If it is Michael then all is forgotten. ;)
.

Who is Michael Korvac??

[WolverinesSon]

Short version:
The best villain the Avengers EVER fought.

The long version:
http://www.leaderslair.com/marvelvillains/korvac.html
(I hope you brought some time with you)

Here's a shorter version (but no images):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korvac

Never mind I got my answer. Should've read first before typing.

[Will.S]

I have a question. I'm not a big Iron Man reader so I'm not sure about his mechanics. I was reading NA #17 and I noticed that while Iron Man was confronting 'The Collective' he looked like he was in a room with monitors all around him. Does he not wear the Iron Man suit anymore? Does he just control Iron Man from a remote location?? I know in Ultimate Extinction 3 he is shown suiting up. Maybe the Ultimate and 616 versions are different in this sense.
That's just the suit's virtual reality type of interface. It tends to confuse people since it always looks like he's just watching stuff naked in a room but I think it's a neat visual since we see all the things he keeps track of and how he interacts with the armor.

[WolverinesSon]

That's just the suit's virtual reality type of interface. It tends to confuse people since it always looks like he's just watching stuff naked in a room but I think it's a neat visual since we see all the things he keeps track of and how he interacts with the armor.

Tight. Maybe he should put some clothes on. What if somebody had to jump in the suit right quick???

Luke Cage: Dam! Tonys unconscious. Somebody needs to get in the Iron man suit right now and get us outta this jam!! Spidey you can fit into it. Go! Now!!

Spidey: Um, uh, doesn't he usually put that thing on when he's naked??

Cap: Dammit!! No times for joking take off your clothes and get in the Iron Man suit right now!!!

Spidey: Does anybody at least have any baby wipes???

Luke Cage & Cap: SPIDEY!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rogue]

I see a lot of praise over the New Avengers but I think you all are in denial. I was all for this team at first, I loved the line up and it was good for the first 6 issues but then it was just a book with a bunch of characters in it. The Sentry is to me a waste of space. He still hasn't gotten his ordeal over?. The Ronin stunt didn't pan out and where is she anyway? And Jessica is a double agent and.......? All this and the Civil War is on it's way. IMO the last year of Avengers was worst in history, equal to or worst than Heros Reborn. I don't see how you can trust BMB with anymore issues of Avengers. The only guy on the team that is worth anything is Luke Cage, that's the one character that is coming along, where the other Avengers Icon's are just blah or there just to sell a book. I can see why it's called "New" so it doesn't get the good name of "Avengers" soiled.

I retire this title. The best I can do is wait for the Trade at the BIG bookstore and read it with my coffee.

They should call it Luke Cage and his Avengers and make him the leader since he's the one that seems to try and get something done.

[Cayman]

I see a lot of praise over the New Avengers but I think you all are in denial

Or perhaps we get things out of the book that you don't and that's why we enjoy it?

Cay

[Giant Guy]

I loved this issue. I did not care for the last issue but this one was great. I love Deodato's artwork.

Cage's plan was great. I am so glad the Avengers are doing this. It was also fun to see Spider-Man just swinging across each panel. Wolverine standing by and watching Cage go tough guy on the dealers was great. Real character moments in this one.

Then we get to the confrontation. I am real happy that Tony first tried to talk to the collective instead of heading in with repulsors blasting. It showed that the heroes are much more than just a group of bruisers. And then the over-eager Ms. Marvel comes in and shoots first and gets herself in deep. I am mad I have to wait for the next one.

[darkhawk76]

story's okay, art doesn't do much for me

like the cliffhanger, funny how Carol's powers go up and down depending on who's writing Avengers

[Grizsly]

Yup. He(McNiven) does the covers for 17 and 18.

I'm all about McNiven, but check out the just lopsided tits on Ms. Marvel on the cover- there's no human being on Earth that has a rack like that. . .looks like the type of anatomical mistake Andy Kubert or even (shudder) Rob Liefeld would make. . .just an awful torso there from an otherwise stellar artist. He must've been tired.

Now, on to the issue - not bad, but ONCE A-GODDAMN-GAIN with the bloody stupid f'ing Sentry!!!! "But the Void told me-"

SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT THE STUPID GODDAMN VOID AND YOUR FRAGILE PSYCHOSIS!!!!! WE GET IT!!! MOVE THE HELL ON!!!!

I really really really really really really really really really HATE the stupid ******* Sentry. He finally shows up in New Avengers again, and what the hell is he doing? Lying in bed clutching his genitals and blankie. Whining about the Void. But of course he'll take some Midol and be back just in time to kick the Collective's ass without breaking a sweat because he's soooooo powerful.

Ugh.

Just ugh. Marvel really crapped the bed with this lame character. Again, I hope he DIES.

Other than that, I like the book. The whole "Impact Heroing" concept was nice and fresh, and the interactions with this team seem pretty good. I guess we shouldn't get too used to it, though, as Bendis is promising "New Avengers: Dissassembled" coming soon. . .

[lordlad]

I'm all about McNiven, but check out the just lopsided tits on Ms. Marvel on the cover- there's no human being on Earth that has a rack like that. . .looks like the type of anatomical mistake Andy Kubert or even (shudder) Rob Liefeld would make. . .just an awful torso there from an otherwise stellar artist. He must've been tired.

Now, on to the issue - not bad, but ONCE A-GODDAMN-GAIN with the bloody stupid f'ing Sentry!!!! "But the Void told me-"

SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT THE STUPID GODDAMN VOID AND YOUR FRAGILE PSYCHOSIS!!!!! WE GET IT!!! MOVE THE HELL ON!!!!

I really really really really really really really really really HATE the stupid ******* Sentry. He finally shows up in New Avengers again, and what the hell is he doing? Lying in bed clutching his genitals and blankie. Whining about the Void. But of course he'll take some Midol and be back just in time to kick the Collective's ass without breaking a sweat because he's soooooo powerful.

Ugh.

Just ugh. Marvel really crapped the bed with this lame character. Again, I hope he DIES.

Other than that, I like the book. The whole "Impact Heroing" concept was nice and fresh, and the interactions with this team seem pretty good. I guess we shouldn't get too used to it, though, as Bendis is promising "New Avengers: Dissassembled" coming soon. . .
if the void doesn't messed up the sentry.....den he's just another superman.

[Sandy Hausler]

Ha-Ha! tenchars

You mean your name really isn't "Expletive Deleted"?<g>

Sandy Hausler

[Sandy Hausler]

I see a lot of praise over the New Avengers but I think you all are in denial. I was all for this team at first, I loved the line up and it was good for the first 6 issues but then it was just a book with a bunch of characters in it. The Sentry is to me a waste of space. He still hasn't gotten his ordeal over?. The Ronin stunt didn't pan out and where is she anyway? And Jessica is a double agent and.......? All this and the Civil War is on it's way. IMO the last year of Avengers was worst in history, equal to or worst than Heros Reborn. I don't see how you can trust BMB with anymore issues of Avengers. The only guy on the team that is worth anything is Luke Cage, that's the one character that is coming along, where the other Avengers Icon's are just blah or there just to sell a book. I can see why it's called "New" so it doesn't get the good name of "Avengers" soiled.

I retire this title. The best I can do is wait for the Trade at the BIG bookstore and read it with my coffee.

They should call it Luke Cage and his Avengers and make him the leader since he's the one that seems to try and get something done.

You've raised one of the most important issues of this month's Avengers. Why is Sentry a member? His limited series of a few years ago was awful and nothing that has been done with him has changed my opinion that he's a waste of space. Why is Sentry a member. The MU was better off when he didn't exist. Maybe he can go off into outer space on a mission and just never come back.

Sandy Hausler

PS Of course, that's just my opinion.

[Grizsly]

You've raised one of the most important issues of this month's Avengers. Why is Sentry a member? His limited series of a few years ago was awful and nothing that has been done with him has changed my opinion that he's a waste of space. Why is Sentry a member. The MU was better off when he didn't exist. Maybe he can go off into outer space on a mission and just never come back.


Ah, nice to see yet another person who thinks the Sentry needs to go. . .WORST character EVERRRRRR!!!!

[protege]

I see a lot of praise over the New Avengers but I think you all are in denial. I was all for this team at first, I loved the line up and it was good for the first 6 issues but then it was just a book with a bunch of characters in it. The Sentry is to me a waste of space. He still hasn't gotten his ordeal over?. The Ronin stunt didn't pan out and where is she anyway? And Jessica is a double agent and.......? All this and the Civil War is on it's way. IMO the last year of Avengers was worst in history, equal to or worst than Heros Reborn. I don't see how you can trust BMB with anymore issues of Avengers. The only guy on the team that is worth anything is Luke Cage, that's the one character that is coming along, where the other Avengers Icon's are just blah or there just to sell a book. I can see why it's called "New" so it doesn't get the good name of "Avengers" soiled.

I retire this title. The best I can do is wait for the Trade at the BIG bookstore and read it with my coffee.

They should call it Luke Cage and his Avengers and make him the leader since he's the one that seems to try and get something done.
You know, i've heard something about a Heroes for Hire revamp at the end of Civil War- maybe this is the direction they should take it in.

[NickThompson]

You've raised one of the most important issues of this month's Avengers. Why is Sentry a member?
Why is anyone?

[WolverinesSon]

I new that the Sentry was a huge mistake from the get go. I do hope they find some way to kill this guy off. Besides having someone that superpowered lying around sucks. "Oh, oh we're in trouble, let's call the Sentry!!" You know what though? My boy Thor should be making a comeback real soon so......Bye bye Sentry. Bye bye lame character bye bye.

[Keith_Martineau]

SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT THE STUPID GODDAMN VOID AND YOUR FRAGILE PSYCHOSIS!!!!! WE GET IT!!! MOVE THE HELL ON!!!!


Cause thats how mental illness and psychosis works in real life.

They just pick themselves up and get over it.

[Grizsly]

Cause thats how mental illness and psychosis works in real life.

They just pick themselves up and get over it.

Cause this is real life, not a comic. . . :rolleyes:

[Hiromi]

And because comics can never ever strive for even a hint of realism... :rolleyes:

[MrBeebs37]

My theory on the collective is that it is an accumulation of some sort of energy created by those people that existed in House of M (Gwen Stacey, Peter Parker's kids, Tony Stark's dad etc.) but no longer existed after House of M.

The idea around where the energy of the lost mutant powers went could also apply to the lost lives that briefly existed. Plus, making a villain that consists of the characters that certain Avengers remember fondly and that would probably want the House of M world back might be interesting. Think of it as a reverse House of M, where the Heroes of that story, with the same mission of returning the world to what they remember it being, are replaced by whichever characters the collective consists of.

This is veering dangerously close to fan fiction...sorry.

[Grizsly]

Right, 'cause having the Sentry deal with his stupid lame mentalness EVERY PAGE OF EVERY GODDAMN F'ING ISSUE is just a "hint." :rolleyes:

[NickThompson]

Right, 'cause having the Sentry deal with his stupid lame mentalness EVERY PAGE OF EVERY GODDAMN F'ING ISSUE is just a "hint." :rolleyes:
Since his own arc he has appared in three NA issues, and it has been mentioned once.

[spEEdy]

This was actually a great issue!
Loved Cage's speech.
Loved the set up.
Loved the confrontation at the end.
This is why comics are great!

[The Crime Dentist]

I like the mental case aspect of the Sentry. It's the most interesting thing about him. The idea that you just "get over" something like that is silly.

But this issue...22 pages, 3 plot points, bringing the total for this story up to 5. Talk about decompression!

I'm glad Bendis made a point of saying Alpha Flight would be back, though. Luke Cage was great, too. Glad to see Bendis is writing him the way always should have been.

With regard to Iron Man - when will they integrate his new status quo? He's not doing the virtual reality room thing in his own book.

[Wannabe]

story's okay, art doesn't do much for me

like the cliffhanger, funny how Carol's powers go up and down depending on who's writing Avengers

Well Bendis is writing her like she's a dumbass. Issue 15 she says that she wants to be a true hero.

Issue 17. Iron Man is peacefully talking to a threat, and she comes in and attacks. Seems like she wants to be a true dumbass if you ask me.

[Will.S]

With regard to Iron Man - when will they integrate his new status quo? He's not doing the virtual reality room thing in his own book.
I always find this interesting. The Iron Man title has been insanely late yet is still way ahead every title due to his armor being brand new. I'm guessing that after the Collective and during Civil War we'll finally get caught up with Iron Man post Extremis.

[StoneGold]

Cause this is real life, not a comic. . . :rolleyes:
Sigh. I've tried to respond to this several times without being condescending, and it isn't working. Let's just say your line of thought is heavily flawed and be done with it.

[Haunt]

Well Bendis is writing her like she's a dumbass. Issue 15 she says that she wants to be a true hero.

Issue 17. Iron Man is peacefully talking to a threat, and she comes in and attacks. Seems like she wants to be a true dumbass if you ask me.


Carol tends to overreact. Tony once tried to pick a piece of lint off of her costume and she drop-kicked him through a plane. true story.


p.s. stop me if you've heard this one but how is New Avengers 'new' or better than classic Avengers? i've yet to see a difference. even the villains are recycled. this crazy stuff with Sentry could have easily been Hank Pym. Ronin shows up for a story arc and does nothing afterwards. Luke's on the team. and what? he could have joined the classic Avengers. i don't see a difference.

[Doom Hammer]

Sigh. I've tried to respond to this several times without being condescending, and it isn't working. Let's just say your line of thought is heavily flawed and be done with it.

Not to be a tool...(actually, this comment was meant to be tool-ish. I decided to be nice and quote someone's reasonable response instead of getting all snarky and mean)...but yeah, Griszly, it was a whole page and a half worth of your book. And other stuff was going on at the time. Let it go.

Right now, the Sentry has a huge problem with the Void. It's being explored in his mini. It's a part of his character, and hey, he's a new character. They're laying down the foundation. Would you complain about how Peter was hung up on "power and responsibility" in his early issues?

Just let it run. The Sentry is not a lame character. He's multi-dimensional and heroic, in that he fights through his severe mental illness. There's plenty of people who whine about him, but they are usually people who haven't read either of his solos. Plus, the Sentry is not on the team to be a super-hero. He's on the team so the Avengers can keep an eye on him, and to help when he can. Which is most certainly not, nor has it ever been displayed as, all the time.

Anyway, this was a great issue. I doubt we're looking at Korvac here. If you look at the first pages of #16, The Collective is shedding his hair and stuff, implying that he was human. (I took it that way.) Probably just a regular guy, actually. Wouldn't that be funny?

Plus, why would Korvac be hanging out up in Alaska?

Though if it was Korvac, I would be most pleased.

Anyway, Cage's impact super-hero work was amazing. Not only is it one of the coolest and simplest ideas to come out of this book, it's also a funny commentary on the decompression of the book. ("...And we're just gonna stand there." Ha! See? Bendis has a sense of humor!)

So yeah, Bendis writes an amazing Cage. He really stole the show. I can't wait to see how they deal with this Michael guy.

[Grizsly]

Sigh. I've tried to respond to this several times without being condescending, and it isn't working. Let's just say your line of thought is heavily flawed and be done with it.

Or we could just say the Sentry blows absolute ass and be done with it. :D

[Will.S]

p.s. stop me if you've heard this one but how is New Avengers 'new' or better than classic Avengers? i've yet to see a difference. even the villains are recycled. this crazy stuff with Sentry could have easily been Hank Pym. Ronin shows up for a story arc and does nothing afterwards. Luke's on the team. and what? he could have joined the classic Avengers. i don't see a difference.
It has mostly to do with Bendis's style and approach of the Avengers.

I don't quite understand the recycled villains stance since the way they've been portrayed compared to their past encounters have been quite different (solo Wrecker vs the entire Wrecking Crew in the Austen run), the villains in the prison break, Black Widow II, the Void, Sauron and the mutates, the Collective.... definitely not your standard fare. I also don't think one can interchangeably switch characters to fit the same type of story such as your example with Hank and Robert since they are different characters.

As for Luke joining the classic Avengers, it would still be a very slim-to-none chance with another writer. Bendis's like for the character was the huge reason why he's on the team.

[Ryan K]

This was my favorite issue of New Avengers so far. I really liked Deodato's art. For once, there were lots of panels in an issue of this book and quite a bit of stuff actually happened. There was even a decent cliffhanger (instead of the crap that tries to passes for a cliffhanger these days - ie will the Avengers be defeated? Oh no.)

One thing I didn't like is the Sentry. So is he just always gonna be crying at home until the Avengers facea big problem and then be called in as the standard deus ex machina only to go right back home afterward? Just asking.

Oh and this is the first time I've actually seen Spider-Man's new costume in an issue. I don't read the SM solo books so up until now I've been able to avoid it except in ads and covers. But that thing is horrible. Ugly as hell and just distracting to me.

[Keith_Martineau]

Guys, it's not a VR room.

It's merel Bendis' idea for a visual representation of what it feels like for Tony to be in the Iron Man armor.
He IS naked inside the suit, and he would have all those displays set up that way in his eyes pieces. Everything would be right up close and personal, and it would feel kind of like he's in a room surrounded by media.

Just a visual representation, not physical reality.

[Sheldon]

Ugh....not liking the art, nor spideys new costume....that thing is some ugly.

[Loestal]

This was my favorite issue of New Avengers so far. I really liked Deodato's art. For once, there were lots of panels in an issue of this book and quite a bit of stuff actually happened. There was even a decent cliffhanger (instead of the crap that tries to passes for a cliffhanger these days - ie will the Avengers be defeated? Oh no.)

One thing I didn't like is the Sentry. So is he just always gonna be crying at home until the Avengers facea big problem and then be called in as the standard deus ex machina only to go right back home afterward? Just asking.

Oh and this is the first time I've actually seen Spider-Man's new costume in an issue. I don't read the SM solo books so up until now I've been able to avoid it except in ads and covers. But that thing is horrible. Ugly as hell and just distracting to me.

No, Sentry will be in the books as soon as his solo title wraps up I'm assuming. At the end of his solo book he will become stable again and be able to be a normal member...but until then, he is gonna continue to be crazy.

[pesmerga316]

No, Sentry will be in the books as soon as his solo title wraps up I'm assuming. At the end of his solo book he will become stable again and be able to be a normal member...but until then, he is gonna continue to be crazy.


exactly, like I have said a billion times before, I just don't think they won't to utilize him too much until his story is told and has an actual established origin instead of the dumb potion. I love the Sentry, and i think the mini is one of the best books out there right now

[lonesomefool]

IS this issue pretty dense in terms of story content, after the rip off of last issue I got ticked and dropped it, but I'm wondering if I should grab this issue.

[UniqueFrequency]

You've raised one of the most important issues of this month's Avengers. Why is Sentry a member? His limited series of a few years ago was awful and nothing that has been done with him has changed my opinion that he's a waste of space. Why is Sentry a member. The MU was better off when he didn't exist. Maybe he can go off into outer space on a mission and just never come back.

Sandy Hausler

PS Of course, that's just my opinion.

yeah i agree with this. it seems after his arc, he's disappeared and conveniently appears when they need more muscle. it's getting tiresome.

[StoneGold]

yeah i agree with this. it seems after his arc, he's disappeared and conveniently appears when they need more muscle. it's getting tiresome.
Really? Because it's like the first time it's really happened. Want proof? It's the first time you've bitched about it.

[tangentman]

Well Bendis is writing her like she's a dumbass. Issue 15 she says that she wants to be a true hero.

Issue 17. Iron Man is peacefully talking to a threat, and she comes in and attacks. Seems like she wants to be a true dumbass if you ask me.

Carol has a tendency to over-compensate to prove herself. It was the other major problem of her early membership in Vol. 3, and made her alcoholism worse. Busiek showed Carol show-boat, which was what she essentially did in issue 17. It's not just Bendis.

[XPac]

Well Bendis is writing her like she's a dumbass. Issue 15 she says that she wants to be a true hero.

Issue 17. Iron Man is peacefully talking to a threat, and she comes in and attacks. Seems like she wants to be a true dumbass if you ask me.

Wanting to be an A list true hero and actually being an A list true hero are 2 different things.

Even though Carol on paper SHOULD be a pro given her background, I think if we go all the way back to Busieks run you'll see someone that is almost trying way too hard.

But that's cool too I suppose... it's a marvel character so she naturally needs these humanizing flaws if she's going to have her own series. If she was really that good at this from the start, the whole concept of a series about a characters journey towards becoming a better hero would be pretty pointless.

[steve2275]

That's Mikhail, but I suppose he could of been saying Mikhail. I'm pretty sure it's a new threat..something to do with the "collective" energy of all the mutants that lost their power. Ya know, that vortex above Earth.
hes tucked in a cave away from everyone

[The Shadow]

Loved the issue!

Loved the art, Cage's speech and pretty much everything about it!!!

[protege]

Guys, it's not a VR room.

It's merel Bendis' idea for a visual representation of what it feels like for Tony to be in the Iron Man armor.
He IS naked inside the suit, and he would have all those displays set up that way in his eyes pieces. Everything would be right up close and personal, and it would feel kind of like he's in a room surrounded by media.

Just a visual representation, not physical reality.
You'd think he could at LEAST manifest some underwear.

[Mariah]

You'd think he could at LEAST manifest some underwear.
So, manties or boxers??? U-decide:P

[Keith_Martineau]

You'd think he could at LEAST manifest some underwear.
Oh come on. You don't like seeing Tony's butt? :D

Incidentally I agree. I would never put myself into the Iron Man armor without something to protect the boys. What if they got caught in a gear? Dear lord...

[milly3cat]

I liked the issue, and the return of Binary was excellent, New Avengers is much better than when it started.

[moon knight]

i was really happy with this issue infinitely better than issue #16

[StoneGold]

Oh come on. You don't like seeing Tony's butt? :D

Incidentally I agree. I would never put myself into the Iron Man armor without something to protect the boys. What if they got caught in a gear? Dear lord...
So wait, does that mean that George was right when he was arguing with Jerry about that?

[protege]

Oh come on. You don't like seeing Tony's butt? :D

Incidentally I agree. I would never put myself into the Iron Man armor without something to protect the boys. What if they got caught in a gear? Dear lord...
Or what if it was a really hot day, and the AC was broken?

[The Fury]

Liked the issue a lot.

Find it odd the X-men were not answering Wolverine's calls. (They worship after all...put him on every team don't they?)

But I hope this thing whoops some people. I find it odd that this thing beat up AF but stop for Ironman.

Also, I didn't like the art. I didn;t think it suited it, compared ot last issue at least.

[ocelotrevs]

This was my favourite issue of New Avengers like ever. I couldn't wait to finish it so I could read it again.

So much was in here, it was pretty surprising.
I liked how the artist drew Wolverine's eyes in, instead of the glowing things when he saw Alpha Flight.

[Tony Starkz]

Yea,this was the best issue of NA since the Sentry and Ronin arcs.

[Neolucifer]

I see a lot of praise over the New Avengers but I think you all are in denial

A lot of praise ? Have you been living in a cave away from the net ? Most of the internet comments have been negative at best :D

Anyway it doesnt matter , i think you are the one in denial , when confronted to the fact , that some , possibly a lot of people enjoy the book .

Great issue overall , i just didnt like much the coloring .. imo the Deodato art looked better in the BW preview .
Also not alot of people mentioned the extra scene with the alpha flight , when previously so many have been complaining about the of panel thing ...
It still only a page , but they still showed more of the scene .

[Capt USA]

I'm all about McNiven, but check out the just lopsided tits on Ms. Marvel on the cover- there's no human being on Earth that has a rack like that. . .looks like the type of anatomical mistake Andy Kubert or even (shudder) Rob Liefeld would make. . .just an awful torso there from an otherwise stellar artist. He must've been tired.

Now, on to the issue - not bad, but ONCE A-GODDAMN-GAIN with the bloody stupid f'ing Sentry!!!! "But the Void told me-"

SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT THE STUPID GODDAMN VOID AND YOUR FRAGILE PSYCHOSIS!!!!! WE GET IT!!! MOVE THE HELL ON!!!!

I really really really really really really really really really HATE the stupid ******* Sentry. He finally shows up in New Avengers again, and what the hell is he doing? Lying in bed clutching his genitals and blankie. Whining about the Void. But of course he'll take some Midol and be back just in time to kick the Collective's ass without breaking a sweat because he's soooooo powerful.

Ugh.

Just ugh. Marvel really crapped the bed with this lame character. Again, I hope he DIES.

Other than that, I like the book. The whole "Impact Heroing" concept was nice and fresh, and the interactions with this team seem pretty good. I guess we shouldn't get too used to it, though, as Bendis is promising "New Avengers: Dissassembled" coming soon. . .



one of the greatest comments ever. (the part about the craptacular Sentry) why in the heck is he on the team? seriously the guy is completly useless, it would be smarter to have doctor doom on the team at least he can be conned into being useful.

[Capt USA]

for the most part I liked the issue, from the opening sequence with the kids (did my mom call you guys--for playing hookie-that was funny) the art work even for that scene was good. Cages speech, the look from Cage when Cap told him to address the news cameras and how he responded was great (although I think he gave away a little too much info, some of it should have been a thought balloon) The Iron man virtual room did bother me but not a big deal. Spidey being the brains to figure out the solution etc.

parts that bothered me though. 1.stereotypical ff aren't home, x-men aren't answering their calls and the sentry being unable to come was pretty much so boringly typical that I'm tired of seeing that in comic books(it seems only reason other teams come anymore to the aid of another team is for crossover events that they can market.)

Carol attacking for no reason was in character for her, but man it really ups the destruction level that is about to happen.

[Billy Parker]

New Avengers rules!

[Stagier]

where is ronin? and why are they nursing the sentry?

[Jessica Drew]

If this issue would have been combined with last issue, it would have been, uh, a great issue. Still, too much decompression. However, I will say that I thought that last page was fantastic.

[Steffen]

I liked this issue. But the one thing bothering me is that since his early appearance, I was really REALLY excited about The Sentry being in The Avengers. Now, not so much. Now he just plays off like a rape victim. If this is the best they can do with him, I'd really like to see him off the team.

[Dooby Doo!]

Another possible candidate, who already had pretty high level mutant powers:

Michael Rasputin (is that his name?), Colossus' brother.

I was thinking that to.

[wellsoul2]

one of the greatest comments ever. (the part about the craptacular Sentry) why in the heck is he on the team? seriously the guy is completly useless, it would be smarter to have doctor doom on the team at least he can be conned into being useful.

:D I agree...Doc Doom would be much more interesting and would not be
off crying all the time. Plus Doom is funnier..Sentry is such a sap he
cannot even be joked with by Spidey. :p

[90'sCartoonMan]

I have mixed feelings.

I liked the beginning in Detroit. Those kids sounded a bit too much like a typical Bendis character (too old for their age), but I liked the concept of Impact and Luke Cage's reasoning. A bit hard on the old Avengers. It's not like they waited around playing video games, they did train in the use of their powers AND they had agents around the world monitoring things.

The Collective thing could be Mikhail Rasputin, that's what I thought. I liked Ms. Marvel flying through that BOOM when she attacked him. Pretty dumb of her to do that, though.

I'm convinced that Alpha Flight isn't dead. There's no way Spider-Man would make a joke like "They got their Canadian bacon handed to them" if they were actually killed.

[roundman]

I'm convinced that Alpha Flight isn't dead. There's no way Spider-Man would make a joke like "They got their Canadian bacon handed to them" if they were actually killed.

I was thinking the same thing when I read Spidey's joke.

[Loestal]

where is ronin? and why are they nursing the sentry?


Is the concept of why Sentry has yet to do anything in NA really THAT hard to understand? Again...

He will not be an active member until his solo book wraps up...so that readers have all the info they need on the character, THEN he will be in it.

[Will.S]

Is the concept of why Sentry has yet to do anything in NA really THAT hard to understand? Again...

He will not be an active member until his solo book wraps up...so that readers have all the info they need on the character, THEN he will be in it.
Yeah, basically.

But I can't help but think that it probably backfired on Bendis with Civil War since that team won't be together again and he'll only use Sentry in the current arc and the Annual. But then again it's possible that he stays on the Iron Man led team.

[KOSLOX]

Won't Sentry's mini wrap up next month? I have a feeling we may see him in the next issue.

[theflyingfrogunderdog]

I don't collect new comics, but i did pick up New Avengers #17 to read. Bendis' storytelling moves well in this issue, but IMHO his character dialogue needs help. In this issue, Wolverine says...

Page 12: Damn...is that Alpha Flight?

How i think Wolverine would've said it: Cripes...is that Alpha Flight?

Page 23: Y'know, after house of m, the mutants that were left pretty much stopped picking up the phone.

How i think Wolverine would've said it: Bub, after house o' m, the mutants that were left pretty much stopped pickin' up the phone.

[Mean Mr Mustard]

:D

Goddess! You got a point there!

[Jake V]

I don't collect new comics, but i did pick up New Avengers #17 to read. Bendis' storytelling moves well in this issue, but IMHO his character dialogue needs help. In this issue, Wolverine says...

Page 12: Damn...is that Alpha Flight?

How i think Wolverine would've said it: Cripes...is that Alpha Flight?

Page 23: Y'know, after house of m, the mutants that were left pretty much stopped picking up the phone.

How i think Wolverine would've said it: Bub, after house o' m, the mutants that were left pretty much stopped pickin' up the phone.

I totally agree! Characters should have a set-in-stone speaking pattern that they NEVER deviate from!

Just like real people!