View Full Version : Do future characters acknowledge their present parents?
Effect
03-20-2006, 09:55 PM
I've wondering something. From what I understand characters like Rachel Gray and Cable are from the future or alternate futures right? If that is the case do they acknowledge present characters that are their parents or would be their parents as such? Refering to them as father or mother at times?
In the case of Rachel and Cable isn't Scott/Cyclops considered the father of both, at least geneticly? As in Rachel is the daught of Scott and Jean. Or am I mistakign Cable for the son between Scott and Madylene (sp?) the one that was suppose to have Jean's clone, the one he only married because she looked like Jean and then dropped her without a second thought when Jean reappeared (at least that's what the write about the character made it sound like, what a bastard)?
How about other future characters? Or do they try to stay away from their past or alternate parents?
Rachel Grey
03-20-2006, 10:44 PM
Oh yeah. Rachel & Nathan definatly see Scott & Jean as their folks. Nate Grey (from what I hear) not so much.
Jake V
03-20-2006, 11:31 PM
Cable is Cyclops' actual son that was born in the present timeline. Madeline Pryor is his mother, but I guess technically she had the same genetics as Jean, but I don't think he ever had the same connection to Jean as he did to Cyclops. As far as Cyclops goes, it's a little weird, but Cable IS his son that was actually born to him (just infected with a techno-organic virus and shunted off to the future where he grew up and came back to the present).
Rachel, on the other hand, comes from a timeline that has been effectively wiped out, so she technically can never be born. It is known that her mother is a Jean Grey of another reality, but it has never been confirmed that her father is any form of Cyclops. I know everyone assumes that, but she could very well be the daughter of Jean and the Phoenix force (or even Wolverine, in some of the less popular theories). She definitely felt a connection to Jean, but I don't think the feeling was ever completely reciprocated, given that Jean had no memory of having her.
In other cases, I think Nocturne doesn't really have much of a connection with the MU Nightcrawler. She knows that her father isn't "our" Nightcrawler.
The Fury
03-21-2006, 03:52 AM
Nate Grey (from what I hear) not so much.
Nate Grey did for a time.
He even wore Cyclops old X-factor uniform out of respect. Nate also sees Cable as his brother and had a TP link to him.
Rachel and Scott have a nice daughter-dad moment in The 198, if I recall correctly. And Nocturne-Nightcrawler is developing a bit over in Excalibur, where the two recently had a phone conversation in which she slipped and called him "dad." He didn't mind, though, and seemed to welcome it.
Dizzy D
03-21-2006, 04:17 AM
Cable is Cyclops' actual son that was born in the present timeline. Madeline Pryor is his mother, but I guess technically she had the same genetics as Jean, but I don't think he ever had the same connection to Jean as he did to Cyclops. As far as Cyclops goes, it's a little weird, but Cable IS his son that was actually born to him (just infected with a techno-organic virus and shunted off to the future where he grew up and came back to the present).
Rachel, on the other hand, comes from a timeline that has been effectively wiped out, so she technically can never be born. It is known that her mother is a Jean Grey of another reality, but it has never been confirmed that her father is any form of Cyclops. I know everyone assumes that, but she could very well be the daughter of Jean and the Phoenix force (or even Wolverine, in some of the less popular theories). She definitely felt a connection to Jean, but I don't think the feeling was ever completely reciprocated, given that Jean had no memory of having her.
In other cases, I think Nocturne doesn't really have much of a connection with the MU Nightcrawler. She knows that her father isn't "our" Nightcrawler.
In both Rachel and Cable's case they do have a connection to both their 'parents':
- Jean raised Cable in the future together with Cyclops, so even if she is not his real mother, he does see her as such (it did take him years to find out about it as they used aliases and slightly different bodies in the future)
- Cyclops raised Rachel from childhood, so even if he's not her genetic father (which still has to be proven/disproven), he still is the man she sees as her father. She did consider him her father when she first arrived in the present, though she never told him that till years later, not wanting to confront him with a daughter from a woman that died years ago.
jeangreydp
03-21-2006, 08:38 AM
In both Rachel and Cable's case they do have a connection to both their 'parents':
- Jean raised Cable in the future together with Cyclops, so even if she is not his real mother, he does see her as such (it did take him years to find out about it as they used aliases and slightly different bodies in the future)
- Cyclops raised Rachel from childhood, so even if he's not her genetic father (which still has to be proven/disproven), he still is the man she sees as her father. She did consider him her father when she first arrived in the present, though she never told him that till years later, not wanting to confront him with a daughter from a woman that died years ago.
I agree here.
In fact, I think the bond Jean and Nathan share is greater than the one Nathan has w/ Cyclops. They seem to relate to one another on a deeper level- maybe because they have the same powers?? Lets not forget that Jean was the one who raised him (even in this timeline before he was sent to the future) If I'm not mistaken he was sitting on her lap when he said his first word!
His connection to Cyclops I think has some sadness that comes with it. When they see each other its like a life they both missed out on. Nathan seems to on the surface write-off any feelings he has for Cyclops as a father, but deep down as we see even in "The Burnt Offering" arc and "The Search for Cyclops" Nathan loves his Dad and would go to hell and back for him. Also, I think Nathan probably needs to feel respected by Scott.
Tobias March
03-21-2006, 09:10 AM
Nate Grey did for a time.
He even wore Cyclops old X-factor uniform out of respect. Nate also sees Cable as his brother and had a TP link to him.
There's a point - has anyone ever acknowledged the eventual fate of Nate? Do they even know he's gone?
The Lucky One
03-21-2006, 09:22 AM
For the best Cyclops/Cable bonding moment, UXM #310 (Scott's bachelor party) is where they really hashed out their differences, Nate's abandonment issues and Scott's regret over the decision to send him into the future.
I also remember this cute little story from a random throwaway holiday story where Scott and Jean gave Cable a wrapped gift... he opened it to find a baseball glove inside, then lifted Scott up into a bear hug. Heh.
-D
Brian M.
03-21-2006, 09:38 AM
You really see in X-Men: The End #3 Book 3 where they stand. Cable and Rachel are tore about where to go...do they help Cyclops or continue on and help Jean's team when they land. Cable goes to Scott and Rachel goes to Jean.
For the best Cyclops/Cable bonding moment, UXM #310 (Scott's bachelor party) is where they really hashed out their differences, Nate's abandonment issues and Scott's regret over the decision to send him into the future.
I also remember this cute little story from a random throwaway holiday story where Scott and Jean gave Cable a wrapped gift... he opened it to find a baseball glove inside, then lifted Scott up into a bear hug. Heh.
-D
The best Jean/Cable moment for me was in Uncanny X-Men #381. I love that team(even though they were only together for three issues lol). I miss Jean :(
Brian M.
03-21-2006, 09:57 AM
The best Jean/Cable moment for me was in Uncanny X-Men #381. I love that team(even though they were only together for three issues lol). I miss Jean :(
That was a great moment.
Tommy
03-21-2006, 10:35 AM
Cable did ask Scott to tell him all about his mother (Maddie) and later visited her grave to pay his respects.
Brian M.
03-21-2006, 10:50 AM
Cable did ask Scott to tell him all about his mother (Maddie) and later visited her grave to pay his respects.
What issue was that?
Titan76
03-21-2006, 10:56 AM
Cable did ask Scott to tell him all about his mother (Maddie) and later visited her grave to pay his respects.
He also met her in Cable #44 and the last time the saw each other was during "The Twelve" arc where so offered to take Cable with her but he said no.
Titan76
03-21-2006, 10:59 AM
What issue was that?
This was during the "Fathers and Sons" arc in Cable #6-8. During this time Cable and anyone else thought he was the clone child of Cyclops and Maddie, so Sinister had to come in to fix and tell everyone the truth about the whole thing.
Edit: I always(still do) thought that both Cable and Rachel were more closer to Jean then they were Cyclops. They both care for and love Cyclops but it always seem to me they were more closer to Jean. Reason for Cable because Jean mostly raised him both before he went to the future and when he was there and Rachel its just petty much obvious from the way she acts about it.
Tommy
03-21-2006, 11:01 AM
What issue was that?
He visits her grave in Cable #6. I am not sure when he askes about her...
Titan76
03-21-2006, 11:04 AM
He visits her grave in Cable #6. I am not sure when he askes about her...
It was issue 8, the last page. ;)
Tommy
03-21-2006, 11:07 AM
It was issue 8, the last page. ;)
Really? All I can remember about those issues is that Sinister attacked him (or something) on the grave.
Titan76
03-21-2006, 11:15 AM
Really? All I can remember about those issues is that Sinister attacked him (or something) on the grave.
I think that was when Sinister was telling Cable and Damino about the whole clone thing. Don't remember excatly what Sinister says though, I would have to go back and look at it again. But I do remember Cable asks Scott about his mother in the last page because that's how the story ends.
Effect
03-21-2006, 11:19 AM
So how do Cable and Rachel feel about Emma being with Scott now that Jean is dead?
Titan76
03-21-2006, 11:25 AM
So how do Cable and Rachel feel about Emma being with Scott now that Jean is dead?
I think Rachel still doesn't like it but expects it in the best way she can. I don't think we have seen what Cable thinks about it though becasue he has his own book.
Tommy
03-21-2006, 11:32 AM
I think Rachel still doesn't like it but expects it in the best way she can. I don't think we have seen what Cable thinks about it though becasue he has his own book.
Speaking of weird... has Havok ever commented on it? Occasionally Alex and Scott seem close, but all things considered they act like they are estranged.
jeangreydp
03-21-2006, 11:43 AM
Speaking of weird... has Havok ever commented on it? Occasionally Alex and Scott seem close, but all things considered they act like they are estranged.
Check out X-men Unlimited. Can't think of the number off hand but it came out in November. It's a convo between Alex and Rachel about Emma/Scott.
It seems to bug him a bit, but he says he just wants Scott to be happy.
I think Rachel still doesn't like it but expects it in the best way she can.
She has no choice especially after Emma showed her she's the better telepath :p
Titan76
03-21-2006, 11:47 AM
Speaking of weird... has Havok ever commented on it? Occasionally Alex and Scott seem close, but all things considered they act like they are estranged.
I don't think so. I drop Milligan's run so I wouldn't really know if he did therr but in Unlimited X-men #11 Rachel and Havok talk about Scott and Emma being together.
I havn't read it yet though because out of all the Unlimited issue that my CBS got this was the one that sold out. And to make matters worse when I told him if he could order it for me from Marvel I told him the wrong issue number. :mad: So its been like hell for me to get this issue but I would think Havok's feelings about Scott and Emma might be show in this.
Rachel Grey
03-21-2006, 09:24 PM
She has no choice especially after Emma showed her who's better at manupulating people's emotions :p
Fixed your post. ;)
Dizzy D
03-22-2006, 02:46 AM
Check out X-men Unlimited. Can't think of the number off hand but it came out in November. It's a convo between Alex and Rachel about Emma/Scott.
It seems to bug him a bit, but he says he just wants Scott to be happy.
And after Annie/Polaris, Alex really is in no position to throw stones.
And after Annie/Polaris, Alex really is in no position to throw stones.
Que? IIRC he wasn't married to Lorna. He didn't even give an answer to her proposal. He wasn't even dating after he came back from the hospital. :rolleyes: :D
FieryBalrog
03-22-2006, 06:37 PM
Rachel definitely feels Jean is her mother, if Claremont's last 20 issues with Rachel in it haven't made that clear. :)
Nate Grey
03-23-2006, 09:50 PM
I thought the whole point of Rachel changing her last name to Grey was out of protest to Scott dating Emma? Or was there a different reason?
Rachel Grey
03-23-2006, 10:08 PM
I thought the whole point of Rachel changing her last name to Grey was out of protest to Scott dating Emma? Or was there a different reason?
No, your right. There was also a bit of "Jean's really cool" too ;)
Nate Grey
03-23-2006, 10:35 PM
No, your right. There was also a bit of "Jean's really cool" too ;)
True...I wish Nate and Rachel had got to interract with each other. Would've been cool. :(
fireball87o
03-23-2006, 10:48 PM
His connection to Cyclops I think has some sadness that comes with it. When they see each other its like a life they both missed out on. Nathan seems to on the surface write-off any feelings he has for Cyclops as a father, but deep down as we see even in "The Burnt Offering" arc and "The Search for Cyclops" Nathan loves his Dad and would go to hell and back for him. Also, I think Nathan probably needs to feel respected by Scott.
you worded this really eloquently :)
also, i wish these kids got more interaction with each other, they could be used more effectively in the books than just being off fighting random villians in loaded action issues, compared to family bonding or emotional issues where we get to see how people relate to each other
StoneGold
03-23-2006, 11:41 PM
Didn't Cyke and Jean raise Cable in the future? Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix?
mattbib
03-23-2006, 11:47 PM
Didn't Cyke and Jean raise Cable in the future? Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix?Yes, as Slim and Redd. They spent many years in the future, mentally.
LoneWolf21
03-24-2006, 12:00 AM
Que? IIRC he wasn't married to Lorna. He didn't even give an answer to her proposal. He wasn't even dating after he came back from the hospital. :rolleyes: :D
Well, he starts to date Lorna again, but has pangs for Annie, decides to marry Lorna, then the day of their wedding goes for Annie afterall, and Lorna goes nuts at the wedding until Juggernaut punches her unconscious.
Citizen V
03-24-2006, 07:14 PM
I would be a bit neutral on the subject,the only examples are yes..Rachel and Nathan.But there are others,like Bishop and his "grandmother" M.There is just not enough of this kind of character to make a full decision.
mr sinister
03-24-2006, 10:33 PM
so is rachael grey (from current issues), rachael summers (from days of future past)? if so why is she grey now? and wouldn't that have proved she was cyclops' daughter if she had his last name then? totally confused. i must have missed a series somewhere.
Nate Grey
03-24-2006, 11:00 PM
so is rachael grey (from current issues), rachael summers (from days of future past)? if so why is she grey now? and wouldn't that have proved she was cyclops' daughter if she had his last name then? totally confused. i must have missed a series somewhere.
No, you just didn't read the whole thread. Rachel and I discussed it. ;)
Daithi
03-25-2006, 05:58 AM
Claremont also mentioned on X-Fan that Rachel also changed her name to keep the Grey name alive in the X-Men. There's always going to be a Summers at the school.
Rachel does think of Jean and Scott as her parents no matter what timeline she's in. There have being a number of times in Excalibur when Rachel treats alternate Jean's in the same way.
Rachel and Scott don't have the same bond however they are very much alike. Ray would kill for Scott and has shown that in the past though. She didn't mind Maddie one bit. She seems to have accepted Emma (What is...is?). Though if Emma did harm Scott it would be a different story.
However Rachel really has a bond with Cable. Cable's entire way of thinking, his religion, his philosophy all stem from Rachel. I always felt that Rachel got looked over in Claremont's Revolution run when he focused on Cable and Jean and Ray never got a mention of her place in Cable's life.
Rachel Grey
03-25-2006, 09:44 PM
She seems to have accepted Emma (What is...is?). Though if Emma did harm Scott it would be a different story.
lol! I dont know wether to answer "Ouch!" or "Good one!" Kudos in any case :p
mr sinister
03-26-2006, 12:26 AM
No, you just didn't read the whole thread. Rachel and I discussed it. ;)
wow i must have been really tired. how did i miss that? sorry. thanks for the answer and thanks for not being mean because i flaked on it. :D
Rachel Grey
03-26-2006, 12:35 AM
wow i must have been really tired. how did i miss that? sorry. thanks for the answer and thanks for not being mean because i flaked on it. :D
Yeah, Nate's cool like that ;)
malephoenix
03-26-2006, 02:25 AM
you worded this really eloquently :)
also, i wish these kids got more interaction with each other, they could be used more effectively in the books than just being off fighting random villians in loaded action issues, compared to family bonding or emotional issues where we get to see how people relate to each other
That's the big problem with the mainstream-est comics. I mean, if Kirkman were writing the regular X-Men all these years, there would be more obvious interraction and talk about all these things and such. Alex wouldn't keep on acting this stupid way where the time spent in the Mutant X-verse doesn't even register anymore. Dumb trash like that.
At least I have Invincible...
The Fury
03-26-2006, 03:01 AM
There's a point - has anyone ever acknowledged the eventual fate of Nate? Do they even know he's gone?
No. According to what I can see or have read, he has never been mentioned in any book since his 'death' not even by Cable who had a psychic link with him.
3 reasons.
1) He died in his own book. At the time he was stupidly powerful. It seems other writers since have chosen to ignore the fact this happened and just continue without worry.
2) X-men don't care.
3) Technically he's not dead. He distributed his energies arround the world into every one. Therefore as he is not really dead, his psychic link with Cable still remains and Cable therefore will not worry that he is dead and not go looking for him.
Other wise, i just think it's ignorance on Marvel's part not to have the X-men acknoledge his 'death'.
jarrod
03-26-2006, 09:46 AM
I would be a bit neutral on the subject,the only examples are yes..Rachel and Nathan.But there are others,like Bishop and his "grandmother" M.There is just not enough of this kind of character to make a full decision.
There's also TJ in Excalibur (daughter of Nightcrawler & Scarlet Witch) and Valeria in FF (daughter of Invisible Woman & Dr. Doom).
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