OK, who agrees that Iron Man doesn't get much respect?

[clarkstark]

:evilangry I AM FED UP with Marvel, it's writers & ignorant people who treat/think Tony Stark/Iron Man as/is an arrogant, controlling, chauvanistic, weak-willed S.O.B.
The armor(s) lately are actually far less formidable than ten-twenty years ago, hardly any of the suits capabilities besides repulsors, boot jets are used by writers and he is most often written as a jerk who only looks out for #1
I know a lot of you are going to roll your eyes at this post, because you don't like or actually care about this character. However, I DO !

[TimmyTony]

Step away from the monitor, breath and say: "it's a fictional character, I will be ok" :)

[clarkstark]

Step away from the monitor, breath and say: "it's a fictional character, I will be ok" :)

No S*#T Sherlock, DUH. I wanted thoughtful replies, not crud like that

[XPac]

His armor has good and bad days.

Bendis has shown him capable of one-hit KOing a savage She-Hulk in Disassembled. And his armor did have some interesting showings in the Savage Land and against the Hand when he was ready for them (though him getting punked by a guy with a sword from behind was kinda weak).

[Mo S.]

:evilangry I AM FED UP with Marvel, it's writers & ignorant people who treat/think Tony Stark/Iron Man as/is an arrogant, controlling, chauvanistic, weak-willed S.O.B.

I think Tony Stark IS arrogant and controlling. And I like him written that way. He's smart, he likes to be in control, he doesn't always play well with others: he wants to be the one to call the shots. I have no problem with that.

I don't agree that he's currently being written as particularly weak-willed or (for a comics character) chauvinistic.

The armor is getting a huge upgrade in the Ellis run - IMO it's almost going to be TOO powerful, with Stark able to control just about everything powered by computers or electronics around him with a simple thought.

Maybe we're not reading the same comics? (Iron Man, Iron Man: Inevitable, the occasional New AVengers issue.) I didn't care at all for his portrayal in his House of M mini, but that was pretty much an alternate reality series anyway - which he doesn't even remember and I plan on forgetting it, too.

[Doom Hammer]

Your argument would be a lot more persuasive if you cited examples of this, you know.

Right now, he's got an all-star creative team rewriting him into the technologically-advanced futuristic hero he was always meant to be.

He leads the New Avengers, alongside Cap.

Iron Man has it good.

And yes, calming down would be good for everyone.

[Doom Hammer]

Additionally, he's a self-made billionaire with a battle suit.

Hell yeah, he's arrogant. And he's dominating.

"Billionaires don't get rich by being stupid..." nor by being weak-willed and easily-manipulated. He's a genius, he knows he's a genius, he's got boatloads of money, and he has a strong set of morals. He should be arrogant, because he stands on the side of the righteous, with enough smarts, money, and battle-armor to back it up.

By the way, how does one be both weak-willed and controlling? Those are two contradictory personality traits if I've ever heard them.

[Haunt]

what DoomHammer said. Tony isn't arrogant so much as self-righteous. read Iron Man: Inevitable to see what Tony is really like. he just thinks bigger than everyone else and it comes off as arrogance. but he really truly believes in making the world a better place. heck, the guy is trying to reform the Living Laser. he's a saint.

[davros42]

The bigger issue here is that there isn't even a monthly Iron Man comic book anymore... Show the poor guy some love and get him a monthly book (that actually comes out every month!). If he can get a book, then maybe he can actually get a consistant portrayal.

There's a lot of non-X characters at Marvel who don't get much respect. Tony's probably head of the list at the moment, since Thor's on his way back. Dr. Strange should get some more love, but at least he's got a steady string of guest appearences here and there.

[The Shadow]

I agree with what Ryho and Doom Hammer both said.

He's gotta be arrogant, he's gotta be controlling, he's gotta be the boss... in fact when he's not I think he's out of character.

[clarkstark]

Additionally, he's a self-made billionaire with a battle suit.

Hell yeah, he's arrogant. And he's dominating.

"Billionaires don't get rich by being stupid..." nor by being weak-willed and easily-manipulated. He's a genius, he knows he's a genius, he's got boatloads of money, and he has a strong set of morals. He should be arrogant, because he stands on the side of the righteous, with enough smarts, money, and battle-armor to back it up.

By the way, how does one be both weak-willed and controlling? Those are two contradictory personality traits if I've ever heard them.

You want examples, you got 'em:

Tony has been portrayed as being very vulnerable to addiction (alchohol, twice), manipulation (Armor Wars 2) and mind control (The Crossing storyline). I have been reading Iron Man since the early 1970's & I have a complete run of his comics. I know the character as well as anyone & how he should be portrayed. :(

[Jake V]

You want examples, you got 'em:

Tony has been portrayed as being very vulnerable to addiction (alchohol, twice), manipulation (Armor Wars 2) and mind control (The Crossing storyline). I have been reading Iron Man since the early 1970's & I have a complete run of his comics. I know the character as well as anyone & how he should be portrayed. :(
You're complaning about stuff that happened 10-25 years ago? Please. It's part of his character now, 95% of the fans like it. People like characters with feet of clay, and Tony will always be far from perfect. Get over it.

[Doom Hammer]

You want examples, you got 'em:

Tony has been portrayed as being very vulnerable to addiction (alchohol, twice),

Lots of strong people have addictions, bud. The implication that he's weak because he had an addiction, in spite of the fact that he fought through it, is ignorant.

manipulation (Armor Wars 2) and mind control (The Crossing storyline). I have been reading Iron Man since the early 1970's & I have a complete run of his comics. I know the character as well as anyone & how he should be portrayed. :(

Are you serious?

What are you trying to argue here? Even if, at one point, Tony Stark didn't get a lot of respect, he does now. So, why would readers be fed up with this treatment if he's being treated well now? That's like saying, "Is anyone tired of Stan Lee writing all these books for Marvel? I'm fed up with it!"

I meant recent arguments, you know? To back up your recent complaint?

Also, I can understand if you'd be upset that a long-established heroic and powerful character was suddenly being abused by writers. But you just outlined a Tony's history, and he's been "weak" for like 20 years. You said it yourself, you know his history as well as anyone. So why now that Tony's getting his "well-deserved" respect would you complain about events from decades ago? I just don't understand your train of thought here.

[clarkstark]

You're complaning about stuff that happened 10-25 years ago? Please. It's part of his character now, 95% of the fans like it. People like characters with feet of clay, and Tony will always be far from perfect. Get over it.


Please,
I can complain about anything I want to in comics. That's my right. Anyway, a character's history is important. Just because something happened a long time ago and wasn't fixed doesn't make it right V. :rolleyes:

[Jake V]

Are you serious?

What are you trying to argue here? Even if, at one point, Tony Stark didn't get a lot of respect, he does now. So, why would readers be fed up with this treatment if he's being treated well now? That's like saying, "Is anyone tired of Stan Lee writing all these books for Marvel? I'm fed up with it!"

I meant recent arguments, you know? To back up your recent complaint?

Also, I can understand if you'd be upset that a long-established heroic and powerful character was suddenly being abused by writers. But you just outlined a Tony's history, and he's been "weak" for like 20 years. You said it yourself, you know his history as well as anyone. So why now that Tony's getting his "well-deserved" respect would you complain about events from decades ago? I just don't understand your train of thought here.
Damn. There goes my future thread about how pissed I am that Magneto ripped out Wolverine's adamantium. And they freaking killed Colossus! Can you believe that?

[Jake V]

Please,
I can complain about anything I want to in comics. That's my right. Anyway, a character's history is important. Just because something happened a long time ago and wasn't fixed doesn't make it right V. :rolleyes:
Who says it needs to be "fixed"? You? What makes your opinion important?

[clarkstark]

Lots of strong people have addictions, bud. The implication that he's weak because he had an addiction, in spite of the fact that he fought through it, is ignorant.



Are you serious?

What are you trying to argue here? Even if, at one point, Tony Stark didn't get a lot of respect, he does now. So, why would readers be fed up with this treatment if he's being treated well now? That's like saying, "Is anyone tired of Stan Lee writing all these books for Marvel? I'm fed up with it!"

I meant recent arguments, you know? To back up your recent complaint?

Also, I can understand if you'd be upset that a long-established heroic and powerful character was suddenly being abused by writers. But you just outlined a Tony's history, and he's been "weak" for like 20 years. You said it yourself, you know his history as well as anyone. So why now that Tony's getting his "well-deserved" respect would you complain about events from decades ago? I just don't understand your train of thought here.

I'm complaining because I'm afraid he is going to be MAJORLY SCREWED WITH/put on the "wrong" side in CIVIL WAR.

I'm far less ignorant than most, "doom hammer"

SPOILER ALERT






The cover of an upcoming issue of Thunderbolts, shows Iron Man actually SHAKING HANDS (WTF?!) with Zemo!, Cap's worst enemy! WHY WOULD HE DO THAT!!! :evilangry



END SPOILER

Again, why? :mad:

[Jake V]

I'm complaining because I'm afraid he is going to be MAJORLY SCREWED WITH/put on the "wrong" side in CIVIL WAR.

SPOILER ALERT






The cover of an upcoming issue of Thunderbolts, shows Iron Man actually SHAKING HANDS (WTF?!) with Zemo!, Cap's worst enemy! WHY WOULD HE DO THAT!!! :evilangry



END SPOILER

Again, why? :mad:
Maybe you should read the comic and find out before freaking out like a 9 year old.

[Doom Hammer]

The cover of an upcoming issue of Thunderbolts, shows Iron Man actually SHAKING HANDS (WTF?!) with Zemo!, Cap's worst enemy! WHY WOULD HE DO THAT!!! :evilangry

Since when are covers remotely indicative of what goes on on in the actual comic?

You are overreacting to a cover.

And apparently, you haven't read some recent stuff with Zemo. Actually, In Avengers/Thunderbolts, Cap seemed like way more of a tool than Zemo.

[clarkstark]

Maybe you should read the comic and find out before freaking out like a 9 year old.


Sticks & Stones, etc :p

[clarkstark]

Since when are covers remotely indicative of what goes on on in the actual comic?

You are overreacting to a cover.

And apparently, you haven't read some recent stuff with Zemo. Actually, In Avengers/Thunderbolts, Cap seemed like way more of a tool than Zemo.


I doubt that cover was anything other than what it was intended to say about the story.

No, I don't read Thunderbolts often. When the government had them attack the New Avengers & the writers made it an easy win, I got sick.

[XPac]

Since when are covers remotely indicative of what goes on on in the actual comic?

You are overreacting to a cover.

And apparently, you haven't read some recent stuff with Zemo. Actually, In Avengers/Thunderbolts, Cap seemed like way more of a tool than Zemo.

The arguement that Cap is more of a tool than Zemo is pretty darn debatable. Captain America is freaking Captain America... he's on a level all by himself.

[StoneGold]

Please,
I can complain about anything I want to in comics. That's my right. Anyway, a character's history is important. Just because something happened a long time ago and wasn't fixed doesn't make it right V. :rolleyes:
Yes. Just like we have the right to point and laugh at you. That's the problem with freedom of speech. Down with the Bill of Rights! Who's with me?


Seriously, most of the stuff that you mentioned from 20 years ago that's ruining Iron Man gave him a character, made him less of a cipher in a metal suit. And all it did was build on something that Iron Man always kind of was, Howard Hughes as a superhero. And in case you didn't notice, Howard Hughes was f'n crazy.


And Helmut Zemo was never Cap's worst enemy. Heinrich, maybe. Helmut? Never.

[Mick Martin]

You want examples, you got 'em:

Tony has been portrayed as being very vulnerable to addiction (alchohol, twice), manipulation (Armor Wars 2) and mind control (The Crossing storyline). I have been reading Iron Man since the early 1970's & I have a complete run of his comics. I know the character as well as anyone & how he should be portrayed. :(

Some of the examples you're bringing up here are old. Like, 1980's old.

And correct me if I'm wrong but at least one of your examples took place during the Micheline/Layton run, which is generally a favorite of Iron Man fans (if it isn't your cup of tea, that's cool, just saying).

So if the character was shown to be arrogant and particularly vulnerable to addiction and manipulation (Dude, mind control? EVERYONE's vulnerable to that), as early as 20 years ago, then you might want to consider that you've got a very skewed view of your favorite character. Obviously, you've got a right to interpret your character how you want to, but by your own words it isn't like Marvel just started portraying him this way. It's been going on for two decades. Maybe he's just a different character from what you want him to be.

[The Shadow]

Personally I like the addition angle. It is just part of the Marvel ideal of not having perfect heroes like DC. I could see Bill Gates downing a lot of booze if his company started to tank or someone was trying to take it over in a hostile takeover.

As for the manipulation... if someone feeds you wrong information and you base your decisions on that you are not manipulative per se, but the victum of ban intel. Again though, it's Tony having a weakness and that's the Marvel Way!

[Leebenhouse]

I betcha Bill Gates is a loser in real life, I've known his type, great at one thing(running a software comapny into an empire) but he lacks in other areas we don't know about.

Like that he's an alchy with heart problems.

But I digress. Tony Stark is a physically unhealthy person,(got a liver shot to hell from boozin, a replacement heart), and he's got some issues(daddy was a royal jerk, tony has issues with addiction). But he gets to put on a suit of his own design and escape that. Remember how back in the day, Iron Man never really fought any street crime, it's always somebaody coming at his company or him, or in the case of the Avengers, the world?

Kind of selfish, don't you think?

But it is part of the character, I think I should know, as I have all of the 80's run, and bit of his 90s runs. Marvel has the best characters, but DC has more Icons. Every Stan Lee marvel characater had his flaws, and thats what makes them great. Spider-Man is a foul up, Cap was time lost, and guilt ridden, The FF had the Thing, the Hulk was a nuclear Jeckyll and Hyde. Thor and Doctor Strange were crippled doctors, And Iron Man was a playboy in a can.

I like the modern portrayl as a man who puts on the suit to get away from all his real problems and can confront his physical problems(i.e. the supervillain of the month attacking Stark Industries). A really underatted character, if handled properly.

Nick Cage would make a good Iron Man. He can really play those messed up guys who get it together to save the world/kick some ass. But I don't think he has the playboy looks for it.

[Brian Cronin]

That's enough fun for one thread.

-Brian