the music "what if" thread

[blackdragon6]

have you ever wondered if a certain event in music happened or didn't happened,and how it would change music history? if so then this is the topic for you :D

what if janis joplin,jimi hendrix,and jim morrison had not died young would they still have been popular later on?

what if tupac bailed himself out of jail?

what if 2pac didn't go to las vegas?

what if biggie had not went to LA?

what if mia zapata didn't die?

would grunge still be dead if curt had lived?

what if john lennon lived?

what if russell simons never met rick rubin

what if kanye died in that car crash

what if jay-z,nas,and snoop died during the "west coast east coast war",how would that change hip-hop?

what if eazy-e never died,would ruthless still be a power house on the westcoast?

what if big l was alive,would he rise to hip-hop glory

what if neh neh cherry's career lasted

what if michael jackson never had any child molestation scandal.would he still be a huge star?

what if dimebag was still alive?


what are your what ifs?

[Adam Crocker]

would grunge still be dead if curt had lived?

In all likelihood it would be. Remember the punk scene in Britain and New York died off despite the lack of immediate deaths among its principals (and if anyone says Sid Vicious I'll start laughing), and despite British punk enjoying a degree of commercial success than American punk would not get until the mid 1990s (and in a significantly watered-down, duller form). Instead the punk bands of the scene either broke up or evolved out of punk (many of them before they actually began their recording career like the Banshees or Joy Division). No music movement really lasts indefinitely, even if the style will carry on at various times.

I suppose the only question is would grunge last longer had Cobain not killed himself? Questionable. Grunge had actually been going on for a few years prior to Nirvana's commercial break through. The style had already been layed down by Green River and the Melvins well before the 1990s and many bands formed around the same time as Nirvana with the same basic musical template. And many of the bands that formed in the wake of Nirvana's success were as musically sterile as the hair metal bands that Nirvana supplanted with their cliched iteration of grunge such as Bush or Candlebox. Getting to Staind and Nickelback would really only be a matter of time, whether or not Cobain would be alive, as grunge's principals broke up or moved onto other things.* Meanwhile those bands that follow grunge, or the slick form of it that became commercially fashionable after Nirvana would gradually wear out its commercial viability and popular music would move on.

(*Which would likely include Nirvana. Cobain seemed dissatisfied not only with the demands of fame, but the music they were playing and wanted to do something else.)

[CHEYENNE-BLACKBIRD]

I have no idea if these are meant to be answered.But i'm gonna do it anyways


what if janis joplin,jimi hendrix,and jim morrison had not died young would they still have been popular later on?..More than Likely,Unfortunatley it doesn't work that way for hip-hop

what if tupac bailed himself out of jail?...Probably would have maintained his level of sucess on interscope.And might have went on to make his pet project "Outlaw Immortal records" wich eventually becamed "amaru"

what if 2pac didn't go to las vegas?..Probably would be where will smith is today.

what if biggie had not went to LA?....Would be where jay-z is today.

what if mia zapata didn't die?...She might be the femal answer to kurt

would grunge still be dead if curt had lived?... Maybe,Maybe not

what if john lennon lived?... I don't know,really

what if russell simons never met rick rubin... Hip-Hop History would be DRASTICLY different.And def jam would not be formed,Even if it was it wouldn't have the same History behind it

what if kanye died in that car crash...As of right now its too soon to tell.But my best bet would be that twista second cd would have gone unnoticed.

what if jay-z,nas,and snoop died during the "west coast east coast war",how would that change hip-hop?...Hip-Hop bi-coastal relations would be damaged...for good

what if eazy-e never died,would ruthless still be a power house on the westcoast?...He would be where Suge Knight was in 95-96.Eazy had better eye for talent

what if big l was alive,would he rise to hip-hop glory...I have no clue..

what if neh neh cherry's career lasted..Depends on the route she takes Genre wise.If she goes in the direction of hip-hop she MIGHT have gone on to be to the 90's what missy eliot is now...Just light years better.

what if michael jackson never had any child molestation scandal.would he still be a huge star?...I doubt it,he'll still be reveared but he'll still be over shadowed by the white pop explosion of the late 90's


Well thats my Perspective.

[Adam Crocker]

what if janis joplin,jimi hendrix,and jim morrison had not died young would they still have been popular later on?

Probably. Many veteran rockers manage to remain a popular (if not 'cool') live and recording acts such as Dylan, Young, the Stones, etc. But that is contingent on how well they over come their respective addctions. Of course not dying young is usually contingent on just that, but look at how long Johnny Thunders was able to linger on as an addict.

They likely would not be met with the veneration they receive today. Not having gone out young and left people guessing "what might have been" they could grow old and uncool like the Stones, the rest of the Beatles, Iggy, Ozzy, John Lydon, etc. Though perhaps free of his over dependence on alcohol and drugs Morrison might have become a more consistent live performer. We also wouldn't have Ray Manzarek constantly going on about Morrison or commercially publishing Doors fanfiction (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1560253592/qid=1010439858/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_10_1/102-2130018-2160155?n=283155).

what if john lennon lived?


This has been a source of endless speculation, but I'm pretty sure a Beatles reunion of some sort would have been manifest. He too would not be worshipped as godlike, nor be summoned as one by Grant Morrison. ;)

what if michael jackson never had any child molestation scandal.would he still be a huge star?

Hard to say. While the controversy marked the decline of his commercial fortunes, his increasingly bizarre behaviour (and implosion of his face from overuse of plastic surgery) certainly would have damaged his popularity as a musician. It doesn't help that his creative output has become increasingly slight, which doesn't give him much to stand on as a musician as opposed to a public freakshow.

[Eliot Johnson]

what if syd barrett never had a breakdown?

the possibilities are mind-boggling. He was the greatest songwriter who ever lived in my opinion. Likely, he still breaks off from The Pink Floyd, but his solo stuff would have had so much more coherence...it would have been incredible

then again...you never know, if barrett's mind wasn't exactly the same (and it would have to be his mind that would be changed for him not to lose it...the influence of acid on his breakdown is far exagerrated), he may not have been the same talent.

what if playa fly doesn't get locked up?

does he explode and show America that the south has true rap lyricists? Or does he remain a largely unknown cult legend?

But if Fly isn't the person that leads him to take the actions that he took to get locked up would he still be as good of a rapper? Would his legend be as great if he hadn't said "fuck you" when the judge asked him for his plea?

In other words, asking "what if" is impossible to answer because things HAD to take the course of action that they took.

it's still fun to guess though.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

have you ever wondered if a certain event in music happened or didn't happened,and how it would change music history? if so then this is the topic for you :D

what if janis joplin,jimi hendrix,and jim morrison had not died young would they still have been popular later on? Morrison I feel would have became a Hippy recluse who would sing on a few albums for others. You wouldn't see him much thru the 70's and 80's. Joplin would have kept singing as would Jimi Hendrix. You would see Hendrix playing some awesome guitar at the MTV Music Awards.

what if 2pac didn't go to las vegas? He odds are would have lived. I'd say he would be married by now and be like Snoop. More relaxed and wanting to stay away from his criminal past.

what if biggie had not went to LA? Would have lived too.

would grunge still be dead if curt had lived? Grunge would have died regardless of Kurt. It was a fad and even if Kurt had lived it would have faded by the late 1990's.

what if john lennon lived? You'd see some awesome music thats for sure. John would split his time between his rock sons and the Beatles with Paul McCartney. I do feel that John and Paul would invite Jullian or Clapton to join had Harrison turned them down for a Reunion tour.

what if russell simons never met rick rubin ? Then a lot of artists wouldn't have had the albums we have seen. Johnny Cash , The Beastie Boys ect ect...

what if michael jackson never had any child molestation scandal.would he still be a huge star? Jackson I think would have had a career of selling between 1 to 5 million albums had the child molestation charges not happened. He's still be considered pretty freakin but have a lotta respect thrown his way.

what are your what ifs?

My answers in bold. :D

[Jonathan Bogart]

What if the Velvet Underground had been the huge pop band and the Beatles had been an underground, hard-to-find, word-of-mouth act revered by the cognoscenti alone?

What if Buddy Holly, the Big Bopper, and Richie Valens had taken a train? What if it had an accident? How would rock & roll have changed if they'd died in a train wreck instead of in a plane crash?

What if a massive plague had struck inner-city New York in the mid-to-late 70s, decimating the black population and destroying the community from which hip-hop sprang? What strange, ungodly music would we have had instead?

What if James Taylor had been in a death-metal band instead of a folk-pop band before going solo?

What if John Lee Hooker hadn't died a few years back, but was still alive and pumping out variations on the music he was recording in the 40s?

What if, in the 20s, jazz and blues had been white people's music and country & western had been black people's music?

What if John Lennon, instead of dying, had been nursed back to health, realized that all his love-and-peace crap hadn't saved him from a single deranged fan, and decided to strike back at the criminal underworld instead, and as he was trying to figure out how to do this, a bat had fluttered in through an open window, and he thought, "Aha! This is how I will strike fear into the hearts of that cowardly and superstitious lot!" Wouldn't Yoko have made a strange Robin? (Or would she be Alfred?)

What if disco-punk had caught on in 1980 instead of 2004? Would Gang of Four be thought of the way Foreigner and Journey are today?

What if Rod Stewart had died in 1974? What if Tom Waits had? Or John Lydon? Or George Jones? Or Stevie Wonder? Or the Captain and Tenielle?

What if the technology to record music hadn't come into being until 1987?

What if classical music had never faded in popularity, and composers were treated like rock stars?

What if musical theater had never faded in popularity, and Lennon/McCartney, Jagger/Richards, Simon, Wilson, Bowie, Reed, and Gaye were all primarily famous as composers of show tunes sung by irritatingly chipper people?

What if Jimi Hendrix had been the guitarist for Led Zeppelin? What if Keith Moon had been their drummer? What if Bill Wyman had been their bassist? What if Tiny Tim had been their vocalist? How would undergraduate theses on "Stairway to Heaven" be different?

What if hip-hop had been birthed first, then morphed into funk, then soul, then rhythm & blues, then swing, then New Orleans jazz, then ragtime, then black minstrelsy, then traditional African music? Wouldn't that just be nutty?







So, yeah, I find the whole project of imagining alternate histories faintly ludicrous. There are always too many variables.

[Buried Alien]

There are always too many variables.

That's why we need to bring back the Multiverse...oh, wait. Wrong forum. ;)

Seriously, though. We just need to limit it to the possibilities that interest us. Nobody really cares about what would have happened if Paul McCartney had dropped his bass guitar on live television during the Beatles' first performance on THE ED SULLIVAN SHOW, or if Jimi Hendrix had fallen offstage at Woodstock, or if the bleacher that all those vocalists on the "We Are The World" recording had been standing on had collapsed under their collective weight as they recorded the song in 1985.

Although I *might* be interested in what would have happened if last year's Pink Floyd reunion at Live 8 resulted in a fistfight on stage between Roger Waters and the rest of the band.


Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Adam Crocker]

...or if the bleacher that all those vocalists on the "We Are The World" recording had collapsed under their collective weight as they recorded the song in 1985.

Funniest moment in music history. Ever.

Although I *might* be interested in what would have happened if last year's Pink Floyd reunion at Live 8 resulted in a fistfight on stage between Roger Waters and the rest of the band.

The Live 8 DVD would actually be worth buying.

And I might try and respond to Johnathan's weird ass scenarios. They sound like fun!

[Adam Crocker]

What if Buddy Holly, the Big Bopper, and Richie Valens had taken a train? What if it had an accident? How would rock & roll have changed if they'd died in a train wreck instead of in a plane crash?

Then Otis Redding and SRV would have to die in a train wreck as well, just maintain the continuity of eerie-ness.

[zombie]

What if a massive plague had struck inner-city New York in the mid-to-late 70s, decimating the black population and destroying the community from which hip-hop sprang? What strange, ungodly music would we have had instead?

I like the sound of plague-hop. Its popularity is spreading.

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

my what if's

what if living colour,and fishbone had a longer career that had a bigger impact on the industry.and from it rose more all black bands that added their own twist to rock/metal can you imagin 40% of that scene being black lol,with their own black fanbase no less?

what if rap music from all regions had hip-hop scenes that had about as much exposure as east coast rap during the 80's (despite popular belief there were active hip-hop scenes outside of new york in the 80's).think about how cool that would be.

[Dennis K]

What if....

Randy Rhoads hadn't died?

Michael Schenker or Gary Moore had replaced Rhoads?

[Lubichev]

What if Clifford Brown hadn't died in a car chash?

He would have surpassed Miles Davis. And Dizzy. And any of the others.
Abso-fucking-loutely.

[Lubichev]

my what if's

what if living colour,and fishbone had a longer career that had a bigger impact on the industry.and from it rose more all black bands that added their own twist to rock/metal can you imagin 40% of that scene being black lol,with their own black fanbase no less?


Fishbone started to lose its core base when it got more and more into the metal sound. They sure lost me at that point. Reality of My Surroundings was the last good FB album. Gimme In Your Face and Truth and Soul anyday.

They did foster the all black funk/metal band Follow for Now, but they were very short lived. One album, I think.

[Adam Crocker]

What if....

Randy Rhoads hadn't died?

Goes on continuing to be a well-regarded virtuoso guitarist until he tires of his gig with Ozzy and decides to go off and learn classical guitar, eventually releasing a classical guitar album. Returns to rock with a solo career ala Steve Vai and Joe Satriani and even ends up one of the G3 tours (preferably the second one, thus replacing Yngwie Malmsteen). Appears at the Crossroads Guitar Festival and has a wicked guitar duel with Steve Vai.

Michael Schenker or Gary Moore had replaced Rhoads?

Ozzy's post-Rhoads work would probably be more well regarded, though with Schenker I imagine it would be a lot more tempestuous with frequent personality conflicts with Ozzy and Schenker walking out on shows. Probably would give either guitarist a more high-profile solo career. (I know Moore has followed a blues rock sound in his solo career. Would this carry over to Ozzy or would he modify it?)

[Adam Crocker]

I suppose I'll post a few...

Could have the VU acheived some popularity had their momentum in 1966 not being log jammed by the delay of their debut album due to legal wrangling over the photo on the back of the album? Or if Paul Morrissey and Andy Warhol were more savvy managers who new how to grease the right wheels and twist the right arms?

What if the Clash had overcome their respective musical and personal differences in 1983? Would they successfully follow up the American success of Combat Rock? Would they supplant the need for U2? Would Joe Strumer become as a insufferable as Bono?

What if Husker Du signed to Warner Bros. with Flip Your Wig? Would the single "Makes No Sense At All" with major label promotion have a chance at breaking the mainstream?

What if New York punk swept America the way British punk did in the late 70s while punk in Britain was relatively unknown?

What if the Bill Grundy incident that swept the Sex Pistols into national fame never happened?

[Phrozen]

What if Les Claypool had replaced Cliff Burton?

[howyadoin]

What if Husker Du signed to Warner Bros. with Flip Your Wig? Would the single "Makes No Sense At All" with major label promotion have a chance at breaking the mainstream?Can't see it, somehow.
What if New York punk swept America the way British punk did in the late 70s while punk in Britain was relatively unknown?Then the Ramones would've gotten their due.

Maybe the Dolls, too.

[tangentman]

What if one of Jeff Buckley's bandmates had seen him in time to stop him stepping drunk into a river and drowning? Would Buckley have gone on to make a third album? Could he have enjoyed a successful music career?

What if Kim Gordon had divorced Thurston Moore and split off from Sonic Youth after the "Sister" album?

What if Sonny and Cher had worked out their differences and stuck together?

What if Karen Carpenter hadn't died from anorexic-related complications?

What if Madonna hadn't enjoyed a break-through and remained an obscure "one hit wonder" of the 80's?

[Shellhead]

what if living colour,and fishbone had a longer career that had a bigger impact on the industry.and from it rose more all black bands that added their own twist to rock/metal can you imagin 40% of that scene being black lol,with their own black fanbase no less?


Living Colour and Fishbone both kept playing long after too many fans had moved on. I saw Living Colour in concert in '91 (Urban Dance Squad opened), and it was a mostly white audience. Same with Fishbone when I finally saw them in '97. Both groups had an increasingly harsh metal sound at the same time that alternative went mainstream, taking fans with them.

The what if? that really haunts me is what if Hendrix had lived longer. At the end of his career, he was moving in new, experimental directions, pushing way ahead of the already experimental psychedelic rock of the time. I think it's actually possible that Hendrix could have invented a new genre of music if he had lived at least one more decade.

[Adam Crocker]

I think it's actually possible that Hendrix could have invented a new genre of music if he had lived at least one more decade.

Oh, and Jimi Hendrix WASN'T a new genre of music?

[howyadoin]

What if Madonna hadn't enjoyed a break-through and remained an obscure "one hit wonder" of the 80's?I still dream of that world. For one thing, Alannis Morrisette might also still be an obscure one-hit wonder from the 80s.

For another, slutty tarts who can't sing might never have become such a profitable musical genre.

And I might not still have the image of her hairy armpits burned into my retinas.

[tangentman]

Yeah, I know I crossed the line from "What If" to "Wishful Thinking"!

[Dennis K]

Goes on continuing to be a well-regarded virtuoso guitarist until he tires of his gig with Ozzy and decides to go off and learn classical guitar, eventually releasing a classical guitar album. Returns to rock with a solo career ala Steve Vai and Joe Satriani and even ends up one of the G3 tours (preferably the second one, thus replacing Yngwie Malmsteen). Appears at the Crossroads Guitar Festival and has a wicked guitar duel with Steve Vai.



Ozzy's post-Rhoads work would probably be more well regarded, though with Schenker I imagine it would be a lot more tempestuous with frequent personality conflicts with Ozzy and Schenker walking out on shows. Probably would give either guitarist a more high-profile solo career. (I know Moore has followed a blues rock sound in his solo career. Would this carry over to Ozzy or would he modify it?)

Rhoads was done with Ozzy once the Diary of a Madman tour was over with. He was going to attend UCLA and study classical guitar.

Gary Moore had led Ozzy to believe that he would, in fact, take over the guitar slot, but then changed his mind at the last moment, prompting Ozzy to call him an "ugly c*nt". I'm assuming that Moore's change of heart led Bernie Torme to be the first guitarist to replace Rhoads. Torme stuck around for only a short period of time before he was replaced by Brad Gillis, who was eventually replaced by Jake E. Lee, who played on Ozzy's first post Rhoads studio album, Bark at the Moon.

[Adam Crocker]

Rhoads was done with Ozzy once the Diary of a Madman tour was over with. He was going to attend UCLA and study classical guitar.


Thanks for the details. I had read that Rhodes wanted to learn classical guitar and was getting fed up with being Ozzy's guitarist, but I didn't know all the details including whether he was ready to leave before his death.

[Lubichev]

What if they showed Elvis from the waist down on the Ed Sullivan show?

[Adam Crocker]

What if they showed Elvis from the waist down on the Ed Sullivan show?

Then America would collaspe into a den of drug use, swearing, Satanism, and wanton fornication!

Or the public outcry about Elvis would be much greater, though I'm not sure if it would be enough to put a damper on his career.

[Shellhead]

I still dream of that world. For one thing, Alannis Morrisette might also still be an obscure one-hit wonder from the 80s.

For another, slutty tarts who can't sing might never have become such a profitable musical genre.

And I might not still have the image of her hairy armpits burned into my retinas.

WHAT? I thought she just had one of the ZZTop guys in a headlock. Ewww.

[Dennis K]

Thanks for the details. I had read that Rhodes wanted to learn classical guitar and was getting fed up with being Ozzy's guitarist, but I didn't know all the details including whether he was ready to leave before his death.


One of the prominent guitar magazines (I think it was Guitar, but I could very well be mistaken) did a long piece about Rhoads not long after his death where they interviewed the other guys in the band as well as his mother and friends from back before he left L.A. to record the two albums with Ozzy (both recorded before the first U.S. Tour started btw). Apparently Rhoads was trying to take classical guitar lessons at various stops on the Madman tour, but as it happens, he would usually already know more than the instructor and would end up giving them a lesson.

According to Tommy Aldridge, Rhoads was really, really unhappy on the Madman tour and wanted to leave right away, but felt he owed it to Ozzy to stick around for the entire tour.

[Lubichev]

What if Yoko and Paul fell in love instead?

[Dennis K]

What if Yoko and Paul fell in love instead?

Then the baby seals wouldn't have any celebrities to bring attention to their slaughter in Canada.

[howyadoin]

Then the baby seals wouldn't have any celebrities to bring attention to their slaughter in Canada.Those Canadians are barbarians!

[Trucker Belt]

What if Johnny Cash never toured with Jerry Lee Lewis, Roy Orbison, Elvis Pressley, and June at the beginning of his career, would it be any different?

[howyadoin]

What if Hanoi Rocks hadn't gone on tour with the shittiest band of all time?

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

Living Colour and Fishbone both kept playing long after too many fans had moved on. I saw Living Colour in concert in '91 (Urban Dance Squad opened), and it was a mostly white audience. Same with Fishbone when I finally saw them in '97. Both groups had an increasingly harsh metal sound at the same time that alternative went mainstream, taking fans with them.

yeah but this is what ACTUALLY happened.as oppose to what MIGHT happen if they stayed popular.

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

what if jay-z,nas,and snoop died during the "west coast east coast war",how would that change hip-hop?


its too scary to even think about this.