Byrne "Original Avengers" Commission

[comicartfan]

Byrne Commission (http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11082&PN=1&TPN=1)
Quesada and Byrne need to kiss and make up so Byrne can get back to drawing Marvel characters again!

[StoneGold]

Honestly? Meh. And the worst part is, it's better than most of the stuff Byrne has done lately. But still, meh.


Although I do like how apparently Giant Man bought a Tickle Me Hulk with the bowl cut variant.

[Atom_basher]

Honestly? Meh. And the worst part is, it's better than most of the stuff Byrne has done lately. But still, meh.


Although I do like how apparently Giant Man bought a Tickle Me Hulk with the bowl cut variant.


i co sign on this message

[DDM]

Byrne will work for Marvel more than likely when Quesada is no longer Editor-in-Chief.

[Mick Martin]

You know, I honestly wouldn't mind seeing Byrne drawing for Marvel.

I repeat, I wouldn't mind seeing Byrne DRAWING for Marvel.

[TimmyTony]

damn!

I will repeat it.

DAMN!!!!!!

I don't give a rat's ass about his personal views; Marvel, give John Byrne an Avengers-related gig.
Betcha the "controversy" alone would make the book a huge hit.

The man still got it...
I can't understand for the life of me how people say "His old stuff was better" and such...I still see the same amazing talent.
God bless him.

[Jessica Drew]

Beeeeeyuuuuuuuuuuuuteeeeeeeeeefullllllllll.

[Red State Cap]

Wonderful commision piece!
I have to say that I would far rather have Mr. Byrne drawing for Marvel than Mr. Quesada editing.

RSC

[comicartfan]

Definitely. The man has said some stuff to piss people off, but who hasn't? He can still draw Marvel characters better than just about anyone today.

[Babylon23]

That's a really lovely piece of work.

For me, Byrne has been a bit hit and miss over the last 10 years, but pieces like this remind me of all the things I live about Byrne's artwork.

[Ravenheart]

I'd love to see Byrne on a Marvel title again.

[Jake V]

Ugh. I knew I disliked Byrne for more then him being offensively insane. This confirms it.

[Giant Guy]

Byrne will be back at Marvel when the regime changes. I'd love to see him do another stint ont he Avengers. preferably with someone like Busiek doing the writing. Wouldn't mind some more X-Men hidden years either.

[Joe Rice]

Eh, it's not bad but it's bland. Keeping Byrne and his racist comments away seems one good reason to keep Quesada around.

[Giant Guy]

What did Byrne say that would make you lable him a racist?

[Will.S]

It's a nifty image but I don't neccessarily have an urge to get him back to Marvel since the artists today put out better work. Byrne's older stuff is great though, not alot of artists can evolve their style to keep up with the current coloring and so on.

[Stephane Garrelie]

I said it on his forum, I say it again here: Great piece. It's Byrne at his best for me. Pieces like this one remind me why I love his art (even if i agree that the post 1995 stuff is generaly not very good. But Blood of the Demon and this piece prove the return of quality in Byrne's art.)

I can't wait to see his work on the new Atom serie writen by Gail Simone. :)

[Mick Martin]

What did Byrne say that would make you lable him a racist?

I can't speak for Joe, but I did read something on his forum that COULD be interpreted as a little racist. It was before he was on the Byrne robotics forum (I believe he's moved his forum several times, so I honestly don't know which one it was). Right after that short-lived third Alpha Flight volume was announced, someone made a comment on his forum that there were either rumors or maybe just hope that it was going to be Christopher Priest handling the new volume. Byrne responded with something along the lines of "That's about as far away from Canadian as you can get."

Which, I'm going to admit right away before anyone starts saying I'm on a witch-hunt, is a comment that could certainly be interpreted in a lot of different ways (but at the time, and in the interest of fairness RIGHT NOW, I had and have trouble interpreting in any way other than the obvious way). Also, that quote is NOT verbatim since I don't remember the exact words or have an exact quote to link to. All I remember is that it raised my eyebrow when I read it, but I eventually brushed it off since it was from Byrne, and by that point I wasn't making a practice of taking things seriously from a guy who claimed that using nicknames like "Supes" and "Wolvie" was disrespectful.

[Frank]

Wow that`s pretty bad. The guy has totally lost it.

[Brian Cronin]

Byrne has had some very impressive commission pieces lately.

I don't think that is one of them.

I echo Joe's comments of "not bad" (it isn't), but "bland," which I would tend to agree it is.

-Brian

[Red State Cap]

Wow that`s pretty bad. The guy has totally lost it.
As opposed to Christopher Priest writing in the so-called "Truth" that during WWII, (white) United States Army troops murdered a battalion of black American troops and buried them in a mass grave?
Nah, that's not racist at all.

RSC

[Reptisaurus!]

Nice.

And I'm not a huge Byrne fan. But nice.

I'll never dig the Moe-Hulk, though.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c42/Ludymark/justsaymoefu-1.jpg

[Brian Cronin]

As opposed to Christopher Priest writing in the so-called "Truth" that during WWII, (white) United States Army troops murdered a battalion of black American troops and buried them in a mass grave?
Nah, that's not racist at all.

RSC

Priest didn't write Truth. Robert Morales did.

-Brian

[Will.S]

Byrne also made some racist remark about Alba as Susan Storm. I think he said something about her blonde hair making her look like a hooker or something along those lines.

[stillanerd]

Byrne also made some racist remark about Alba as Susan Storm. I think he said something about her blonde hair making her look like a hooker or something along those lines.

You can find the actual quote, plus other controversal statements John Byrne has said over the years in this article: http://www.monitorduty.com/mdarchives/2005/08/kistlers_korner.shtml

I will say about the man is that he CAN draw (although his writing is something to be desired) and he does make a good argument about how he believes that the Secret Wars crossover is what started comics to go into a downward spiral in terms of story quality. He's also pretty bitter towards Joe Q and his handling of Marvel across the board.

[Red State Cap]

Priest didn't write Truth. Robert Morales did.
-Brian
You are correct. My apologies to Christopher Priest for mistakenly attributing this to him.

RSC

[Will.S]

You can find the actual quote, plus other controversal statements John Byrne has said over the years in this article: http://www.monitorduty.com/mdarchives/2005/08/kistlers_korner.shtml

I will say about the man is that he CAN draw (although his writing is something to be desired) and he does make a good argument about how he believes that the Secret Wars crossover is what started comics to go into a downward spiral in terms of story quality. He's also pretty bitter towards Joe Q and his handling of Marvel across the board.
Yeah after reading all that stuff, he's pretty much made an ass of himself.

How sour.

[Stephane Garrelie]

Byrne has had some very impressive commission pieces lately.

I don't think that is one of them.

I echo Joe's comments of "not bad" (it isn't), but "bland," which I would tend to agree it is.

-BrianYou don't like this one Brian?
not even Giant Man, Hulk and the Wasp?

[Joe Rice]

As opposed to Christopher Priest writing in the so-called "Truth" that during WWII, (white) United States Army troops murdered a battalion of black American troops and buried them in a mass grave?
Nah, that's not racist at all.

RSC

Even if Priest HAD written this excellent book, writing racist characters hardly makes you a racist.

[Will.S]

Even if Priest HAD written this excellent book, writing racist characters hardly makes you a racist.
Heh it was cool that even Alan Moore praised the Truth work which is amazing to me.

[Tommy]

Bryne: Fantastic Four, X-men, She-Hulk... I like.

His other stuff I have read... not so much.

[Jack Flash]

Wow, I once liked him, but that I am not blown away by. I'm with Mr. Rice, thanks Joe Q for keeping him away from us.

[Dial Tone]

I would LOVE for Byrne to be drawing for Marvel again! He'd be a better artist on Fantastic Four and Iron Man that what they have right now. Better than any Spider-Man artist going now. Better than any Hulk artist. Better than any Avengers artist. Probably better than who they'll pick for Thor. Would have been awesome on Eternals, even though I look forward to Romita Jr. Alpha Flight?!?!

There are possibilities with John Byrne and Marvel comics.

[Frank]

As opposed to Christopher Priest writing in the so-called "Truth" that during WWII, (white) United States Army troops murdered a battalion of black American troops and buried them in a mass grave?
Nah, that's not racist at all.

RSC

eh? What has this drawn piece has to do with Priest/Morales` writing ? You lost me there.

[Red State Cap]

eh? What has this drawn piece has to do with Priest/Morales` writing ? You lost me there.
Read the above, I wrongly attributed "The Truth" to Christopher Priest when it is Morales.
The point was that people are bashing Byrne for supposed "racist" statements, and I was pointing out that the writing in "The Truth" is also "racist" -- although it was not Priest's writing, it was Morales.

RSC

[Frank]

Read the above, I wrongly attributed "The Truth" to Christopher Priest when it is Morales.
The point was that people are bashing Byrne for supposed "racist" statements, and I was pointing out that the writing in "The Truth" is also "racist" -- although it was not Priest's writing, it was Morales.

RSC

What does this have to do with the Avengers pick?

[Red State Cap]

What does this have to do with the Avengers pick?
Then what do the statements made by people including yourself that Mr. Byrne is allegedly a "racist" have to do with the commission pic?
You posted this one in response to a post which brought up alleged "racist" comments by Mr. Byrne:
Wow, that's pretty bad. The guy has totally lost it.
Obviously the commission pic has nothing to do with Mr. Byrne's politics, but certain people chose the opportunity to attack Mr. Byrne on the basis of his politics. I didn't see you asking them what that had to do with the commission piece; in fact, you agreed with them. Therefore, it's more than a little hypocritical of you to ask me what my comparison had to do with the topic.

RSC

[Carlton Donaghe]

My fiancee is hispanic. She's a beautiful woman with light skin and brown hair.

She goes to the comic shop with me and whisper's "I love you" in my ear while I look at comics. What more could a comic-reading guy want?

We were talking about comic artists one day, including John Byrne, and I told her about how John Byrne said that any hispanic woman who dyes her hair blonde looks like a whore. I told her I'd never buy his work again.

John Byrne's a racist bastard, and I wouldn't take his work if it was free.

[RogSternfan]

i wanna see him write not draw

[static]

eh....not too impressive in my opinion. i would rather have any number of artists already in the marvel stable than have that pig headed racist washed up primadonnna. ill take hitch, mcniven, cho, hairsine, deodato, cassiday, epting, cheung, etc...

i honestly think his art has suffered over the years alot worse than his crap writing ....

[comicartfan]

Byrne isn't a racist. Ignorant, sure, but not racist. That's a pretty strong term there, and one that shouldn't be tossed around lightly.

In fact , from the Merriam Webster Dictionary : racism-
the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races.

Here is the direct quote from Byrne:
"Personal prejudice: Hispanic and Latino women with blond hair look like hookers to me, no matter how clean or "cute" they are. Somehow those skin tones that look so good with dark, dark hair just don't work for me with lighter shades.
Like I said -- personal prejudice."
Nowhere did he tout himself or white people as being genetically , physically or intellectually superior to Hispanics.

[Mick Martin]

Byrne isn't a racist. Ignorant, sure, but not racist. That's a pretty strong term there, and one that shouldn't be tossed around lightly.

In fact , from the Merriam Webster Dictionary : racism-
the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races.

Here is the direct quote from Byrne:
"Personal prejudice: Hispanic and Latino women with blond hair look like hookers to me, no matter how clean or "cute" they are. Somehow those skin tones that look so good with dark, dark hair just don't work for me with lighter shades. Like I said -- personal prejudice."
Nowhere did he tout himself or white people as being genetically , physically or intellectually superior to Hispanics.


Dude, you're so deep in denial you may as well be giving it an enema.

He said they looked like hookers, and in case you didn't get the memo, prostitutes are not generally held in high regard in our society. So when a man says that ANY hispanic or latino woman who takes on a physical attribute traditionally associated with whites (blond hair) looks like a prostitute, there's a message of racial superiority in there.

[comicartfan]

There is no denial, because there is no racism there! I'll be the first to admit that what he said was Stupid. In fact, Alot of what he says is Stupid. But, check out the number of Hispanic Members he has on his board, ask one of them why they haven't taken him to task over it. It's not racist. He wasn't putting himself above any group of people.If he were to say "Hispanics are the lowest form of life on the planet", yeah, then I would agree,and label him a racist. He was talking about his preference in Hispanic/Latino Women, and Jennifer Alba in particular.

[Mister Mets]

You know, I honestly wouldn't mind seeing Byrne drawing for Marvel.

I repeat, I wouldn't mind seeing Byrne DRAWING for Marvel.

I'll cosign this message. His run on Action Comics shows that he's a great artist, but he lost it as a writer some time ago.

[zonzorp]

There is no denial, because there is no racism there! I'll be the first to admit that what he said was Stupid. In fact, Alot of what he says is Stupid. But, check out the number of Hispanic Members he has on his board, ask one of them why they haven't taken him to task over it. It's not racist. He wasn't putting himself above any group of people.If he were to say "Hispanics are the lowest form of life on the planet", yeah, then I would agree,and label him a racist. He was talking about his preference in Hispanic/Latino Women, and Jennifer Alba in particular.
There are lots of ways JB could have expressed an aesthetic preference for Latinas with dark hair as opposed to blonde that would have lacked the racist content of his actual statement.

[static]

did you happen to see the Xmen cover selling on ebay originally drawn by Bryne?? in the UPC box which he knew would be covered by the publisher he drew a old "sambo" looking black charicature in the corner!!! look in your dictionary and tell me if it fits the description of racist ....

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=113192&GSub=16862

check this and you tell me....

[DDM]

did you happen to see the Xmen cover selling on ebay originally drawn by Bryne?? in the UPC box which he knew would be covered by the publisher he drew a old "sambo" looking black charicature in the corner!!! look in your dictionary and tell me if it fits the description of racist ....

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=113192&GSub=16862

check this and you tell me....

Drawing a Sambo character does not make one racist. Sambo is an established character. Byrne was telling a joke. Jeesh.

[static]

did i actually just read someone write "sambo is an established character"?!?!?!? why am i not surprised your profile says your located "somehere in the south"....let me make a wild guess...your not a black man....that drawing was blatently racist and just because someone thinks its funny and they are making a joke dosent excuse it ...just when i thought DDM's comments couldnt more stupid...

[Web_Spinner]

Never liked Byrne's art. Especially the post reboot Spidey stuff...just awful.

And then there's his writing.....

[static]

writing is abysmal....art is getting worse....and he is a prick...

[Young Avenger]

I'm not impressed. His artwork looks bland and boring. Marvel has signed many great artists to exclusive deals in the last couple of years. They don't need Byrne's boring artstyle.

[Mick Martin]

But, check out the number of Hispanic Members he has on his board, ask one of them why they haven't taken him to task over it.

I have a question. Do you think if a member of a minority says something or someone IS racist, that they must necessarily be right, because they're a member of a minority?

Because if the answer to your question is NO, then why would you think that just because a member of a minority says something is NOT racist, then they must necessarily be correct?


It's not racist. He wasn't putting himself above any group of people.If he were to say "Hispanics are the lowest form of life on the planet", yeah, then I would agree,and label him a racist.

I've got a newsflash for you buddy. Particularly in today's world, where our sense of political correctness has taught bigots to think it but never say it, racism comes out in ways a lot more subtle than in the Third Reich.

Byrne said Hispanic/Latino women with blond hair look like hookers. That's what he said. You can't get around that. He didn't say there was something not quite right about it. He didn't say that the clash of the skin color vs. the hair color seemed weird. The man has worked as a professional writer. There are a million ways to say what he wanted to say, and he knew it. And he chose to compare the women in question to HOOKERS.

Real quick lesson. If you compare a group of people differentiated by race and gender (Hispanic/Latino women) to one of the most despised "career" choices in our society (prostitutes), then you are making a statement that is clearly racist and misogynistic.

Listen, I don't want to demonize the guy. The way I look at it, for a white person in our society (that includes me) to claim racism hasn't penetrated their thoughts is like a fish claiming it isn't wet. Our culture's just too permeated with racism for any one person to claim perfect immunity. The solution isn't to point out particular people and punish them for it, but to take an honest look at ourselves.

But at the same time, that doesn't mean we should wear blinders just because we like someone's creative work. What he said was racist, and you know it. He knows it. In fact, considering his usual tone, he probably said it just to make people angry. Whatever.

[CAPWOLF]

I am a black man and I used to like Byrne's work. But there is no getting around it that Hooker comment wasracist, and the Sambo drawing was even more so...Thats very disappointing to me, you never know what people harbor in their hearts. Sad....

[Michael P]

i wanna see him write not draw
Read Blood of the Demon, you get both.

It's not the most splendiferous thing I've ever seen, but it is pretty neat. I like Wasp's little contrail.

Now this makes me want to see a meaningless pinup book of "Artists draw their favorite moments in Marvel history."

[Jason Everett]

Okay, LET US PLEASE BE ADULTS AND GET BACK TO THE COMMISSIONED PIECE. That's what this thread was started for, right? If you want, you can start another thread called "Let's start a bashing on a public figure's personal beliefs because he really has no way to defend himself right here and now and we are all chickens hiding behind our keyboards and monitors where we can say anything we want without any sort of retribution."

Fifty bucks says not a single person in this thread has a spotless record when it comes to race relations. What would you look like if we put you on parade. The thing is, no one truly cares about what we really have to say anyway, so 2 weeks from now this thread will be lost and forgotten. We shouldn't think so highly of ourselves.

Famous U2 line - "If you need someone to blame, throw a rock in the air and you will hit someone guilty." Dirty Day from the Zooropa album.

Think about this one. What would be said if a HIspanic artist had said that stuff about Jessica Alba. Would that still make that artist a racist? How about if a black artist had said it?

We need to get off our high horses of racial piety and remember that we are all human and make mistakes. I think Byrne is full well aware of his own inadequacies. The best voice is your own personal voice of not buying his work. If you want to hurt him, just don't pick up his comics.

And honestly, the piece is really a good piece. Sorta like seeing the Rolling Stones release a good album.

[Fastballspecial]

Drawing a commission piece and drawing a monthly book are two different things. Byrne standing art is still wondeful because he takes his time. His monthly books havent been good for years more like at least 10 years at least. I had hoped that with Perez revamping his career, but Byrne has not followed suit.

He seems content on using shortcuts to produce sub par or only average work. The bad thing is we all know he can do better.

[static]

i agree about getting back to the brass tacks and i honestly think the art lacked any energy and was typical of the sub par art bryne has produced lately...i wanted soooooo much to love First line but i hated it (even though i bought all the issues) i didnt like Xmen the hidden years either even though i wished i could...i was raised on Bryne and worshiped him in his x-days but the work is way past slipping...i would take 10 other marvel artists over him any day of the week ....and thats the sad truth...

Steve Epting
David Finch
John Cassaday
Bryan Hitch
Greg Land
Joe Mad
Scott Campbell
Gary Frank
Mike Deodato
Paul Pelletier
John Romita Jr.
Mark Bagley
Salvador Larroca
Trevor Hairsine
alec malleve
mike weringo
michael lark

ill take any of them over this version of John Bryne politics aside...

[Kirk G]

Byrne isn't a racist. Ignorant, sure, but not racist. That's a pretty strong term there, and one that shouldn't be tossed around lightly.

In fact , from the Merriam Webster Dictionary : racism-
the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races.

Here is the direct quote from Byrne:
"Personal prejudice: Hispanic and Latino women with blond hair look like hookers to me, no matter how clean or "cute" they are. Somehow those skin tones that look so good with dark, dark hair just don't work for me with lighter shades.
Like I said -- personal prejudice."
Nowhere did he tout himself or white people as being genetically , physically or intellectually superior to Hispanics.


"Can't we all just... get along???!!!" :rolleyes:

[Kirk G]

Bryne: Fantastic Four, X-men, She-Hulk... I like.

His other stuff I have read... not so much.
I'd have to add to that list HIS Alpha Flight, Captain America, Namor and Hulk....
But I agree his later work, including Spidey Year One, Tenth Circle, Doom Patrol, Demon, etc, with the bizarre pannel layouts just don't do it for me.
I prefer the more traditional, comic book layouts to make it more accessable. The art should not detract from the story, but enhance it. And that's what was true about FF, X-Men, She-Hulk, Alpha Flight, Cap, Namor and Hulk... but got lost in some of the later projects.... including, to my regret, some of X-men: Hidden Years and Marvel: The Lost Generation. :(

[Tennoarashi]

That peice is pretty... it's competent and dynamic. But it's just... mrr.

While I'm a big X-Men fan, my closest and most prominent exposure with John Byrne has been with Wonder Woman. Some nice ideas. Some absolutely insane execution.