Appleseed. How representative of current anime is this?

[Bored at 3:00AM]

********SPOILERS APLENTY*******

I have a checkered history with anime. I really, really want to like anime, but there's been so little of it I've actually liked. Everytime I dip my toe in the pool looking for something like Akira, Ninja Scroll or Ghost In The Shell, I end up being either bored stupid by the clumsy melodrama or annoyed by the excessive cuteness. As a result, I generally avoid anime altogether.

But, I really wanted to give anime another shot, so I decided to watch Appleseed to see if anime had moved past some of the stylistic problems I've had with most of the previous stuff I've watched. The quote on the cover of the DVD said the film surpassed even The Incredibles, so I figured this would be a good one to see. I'm pretty sure I watched the original Appleseed, Keiffer Sutherland did some voice work on it, didn't he? Regardless, I can't remember anything about aside from the fact that it had yet another big eyed anime hot chick kicking ass in it.

Anywho, I have to say I was flabbergasted by how awful this film was. I can't remember seeing a more tedious film in years. And that's a pretty damning thing to say when the movie's about a hot chick kicking ass in a giant robot suit. I mean, how can you screw up an idea that cool!?

This isn't to say the girl on girl/girl on robot/robot on robot action scenes aren't perfectly fine and visually accomplished. There's no denying that a lot of time & effort was put into the visuals. But, dear lord, the audience is given absolutely nothing else to get interested in. The characters are so paper-thin, they're practically transparent.

Why am I supposed to care about our big eyed ass-kicking hot chick heroine? Because she's hot and kicks ass? Or are we supposed to give a crap because she lost her mommy & daddy? Sorry, but if that formula didn't work with Lara Croft, Aeon Flux or Kate Beckinsale, why does anybody think its going to work here? You actually need a personality. Pouting, kicking ass and having your parents murdered when you're a kid don't make for a very compelling protagonist.

The romance, between our big eyed ass-kicking hot chick and a big robot who used to be a guy, is similarly under-developed and one-note. Apparently, we are supposed to be emotionally invested in this relationship. Why? I have no idea. We don't know why she loves him or even if the robot likes her since the entirety of the love story consists of a couple scenes of robot guy being a dick to hot chick girl and her pouting about it. Then robot guy dies and she cries. And technobabble brings him back to life. Hooray.

And the truck-loads upon truck-loads of seemingly endless exposition! I have never, never been forced to endure this much dull, lifeless exposition and techno-babble in my life--and I've watched hundreds of hours of Star Trek so I've sat through plenty of that already. I mean, minutes upon minutes of nothing going on but some character explaining things.

So, my question is: Is this actually representative of anime these days? Is this supposed to be what a good anime film is like these days? Please tell me there's better stuff being put out there than this...

[SAMAS]

First of all, if you're going to reveal anything about the plot, a damn SPOILER WARNING is in order, okay?

Secondly, much like any Movie, TV show, or OVA, quality depends on the people making it, not the medium. It helps if you tell us what you're looking for.

[Ayo]

There's two Appleseed movies, by the way. The one from a long time ago which in my opinion blew camel nuts and the one from a year or two ago, which I haven't seen, but can only assume blew camel nuts.

I stick with the books.

[Damo]

The answer to your question is "Not Very".

You may as well hold up "The Matrix Reloaded" and ask "How representative is this of American cinema?"

Tell me the genre you want, tell me a few movies you like, I'll give you some recommendations.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

First of all, if you're going to reveal anything about the plot, a damn SPOILER WARNING is in order, okay?

Secondly, much like any Movie, TV show, or OVA, quality depends on the people making it, not the medium. It helps if you tell us what you're looking for.

Whoops! My bad, I'll correct that in editing. Sorry 'bout that.

I said I was looking for something as good as Akira, Ninja Scroll & Ghost in The Shell. That doesn't help?

Oh, and don't say Neon Genesis Evengalion (which I'm sure I'm spelling wrong). I tried that and it didn't do anything for me. I couldn't stand the mopey little kid in that.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

The answer to your question is "Not Very".

You may as well hold up "The Matrix Reloaded" and ask "How representative is this of American cinema?"

Tell me the genre you want, tell me a few movies you like, I'll give you some recommendations.

Again, I mentioned in my original post that I was looking for something as good as Akira, Ninja Scroll & Ghost In The Shell. Anything near that level of quality would be great. I loved those three films.

[The Adventurer]

Film wise?

Steamboy (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0009P42S2/qid=1142711923/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-7271879-6712833?v=glance&s=dvd) (created by the same guy who made Akira. Steam Punk)

The Venus Wars (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00007K010/qid=1142711955/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-7271879-6712833?v=glance&s=dvd) (older, but a very very good sci-fi occupational war story)


Series wise....

Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00024I18M/qid=1142711994/sr=1-18/ref=sr_1_18/002-7271879-6712833?v=glance&s=dvd) - If you liked Ghost is Shell, this is a no brainer. Better then the first Film IMO.

Read or Die OVA (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000096IAJ/qid=1142712022/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-7271879-6712833?v=glance&s=dvd) - Best action anime there is, so fun and dark.

R.O.D the TV (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00020HBWS/qid=1142712047/sr=1-9/ref=sr_1_9/002-7271879-6712833?v=glance&s=dvd) - The series follow up to Read or Die.

Planetes (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0007ZEORS/qid=1142712085/sr=1-4/ref=sr_1_4/002-7271879-6712833?v=glance&s=dvd) - Near Future teen romance comedy. Best hard science TV series of all time.

Now and Then, Here and There (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000063K2C/qid=1142712318/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/002-7271879-6712833?v=glance&s=dvd) - Quite possibly the most depressing TV show will ever watch, ever. Sci-FI drama at it's very best.


And yeah, the new Appleseed blew total ass. Nice backgrounds, and an interesting us of Cel Shading characters, but beyond that it was total snuff. Ghost in the Shell: SAC does it way better and on a TV schedual.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Film wise?

Steamboy (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0009P42S2/qid=1142711923/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-7271879-6712833?v=glance&s=dvd) (created by the same guy who made Akira. Steam Punk)


I have been trying to track down a copy of this with English subtitles but haven't had any luck thus far. My job has me travelling abroad in Asia for years at time, so I'm generally at the mercy of whatever versions are available at the local video shops. And my Japanese sucks.

Same deal with Stand Alone Complex, unfortunately...

[The Adventurer]

Ah. That kinda stinks, you're in the land of Anime, but can't watch any of it.

It's like hell, but with bigger eyes.

[Sanagi]

Yeah, Appleseed sucked. Representative of anime? I don't know, who cares? Every popular art form is choked with garbage.

Cartoon Network is running Spirited Away tonight, if you haven't seen it. It's one of my favorite movies.

[Totoro Man]

you wan't something "cool"?

I dunno, I liked 'Cowboy Bebop' and 'Samurai Champloo'. they have a more Western-influenced style and actually have pretty good soundtracks (for anime). they don't recycle footage or musical material ad nauseum from episode to episode.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

you wan't something "cool"?

I dunno, I liked 'Cowboy Bebop' and 'Samurai Champloo'. they have a more Western-influenced style and actually have pretty good soundtracks (for anime). they don't recycle footage or musical material ad nauseum from episode to episode.

I have seen a few episodes of Cowboy Beebop and enjoyed them. Although I thought the story of the movie was a bit weak.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Ah. That kinda stinks, you're in the land of Anime, but can't watch any of it.

It's like hell, but with bigger eyes.

Yeah, it kinda sucks. Same goes for most foreign films.

[Pikachu]

What I really hate is whent people compare a 100 Million dollar film to an 8 million dollar film. That's like comparing my Chevy Cavileer to a Ferarri Enzo (or more acurately a tricycle to a Ferarri). Yeah, they are both cars... and that's about where the similarities end. Saying Appleseed Sucked because it didn't stack up to something like The Incredibles is like saying you hate all Chevy Cavileers because they don't stack up to a Ferarri.

As far as the new Appleseed CGI film went, it had its genius moments and areas lacking, much like all films tend to. I will say that the cell animation was handled extremely well. The rotoscoping was done nicely, and the music was fairly pleasant. Although the plot had a few holes, it wasn't as bad as most summer block busters that come out here. The voice acting was spot on, and I think it balanced exposition and action just fine. The mech designs were fresh not to mention supervised redesigns by Masamune Shirow himself. As far as apples and oranges stack up, it was a very well done film.

Now if you want real quality film and character development by one of the worlds greatest master story tellers, look no further than Hayao Miyazaki and the collected works of Studio Ghibli.

Pika!

[Gaz]

I have seen a few episodes of Cowboy Beebop and enjoyed them. Although I thought the story of the movie was a bit weak.
The movie's at least 20-30 minutes too long. A two part episode would've sufficed in the series.

The later episodes are excellent however.

[SAMAS]

What I really hate is whent people compare a 100 Million dollar film to an 8 million dollar film. That's like comparing my Chevy Cavileer to a Ferarri Enzo (or more acurately a tricycle to a Ferarri). Yeah, they are both cars... and that's about where the similarities end. Saying Appleseed Sucked because it didn't stack up to something like The Incredibles is like saying you hate all Chevy Cavileers because they don't stack up to a Ferarri.

As far as the new Appleseed CGI film went, it had its genius moments and areas lacking, much like all films tend to. I will say that the cell animation was handled extremely well. The rotoscoping was done nicely, and the music was fairly pleasant. Although the plot had a few holes, it wasn't as bad as most summer block busters that come out here. The voice acting was spot on, and I think it balanced exposition and action just fine. The mech designs were fresh not to mention supervised redesigns by Masamune Shirow himself. As far as apples and oranges stack up, it was a very well done film.

Now if you want real quality film and character development by one of the worlds greatest master story tellers, look no further than Hayao Miyazaki and the collected works of Studio Ghibli.

Pika!

And Castle of Cogliostro. Which, while pre-Ghibli and a Lupin III movie, has Miyazaki written all over it.

[madevil]

i was once standing right where you are Clint Flicker. Knowing I would love some anime but not knowing what to even begin with. Seems your problem is deeper though, as you cant tell us whats even available for you to aquire, because of the dub problems.

I can tell you what Anime Series got me back into the swing of things. Most will agree:

Berserk!
http://www.animeboredom.co.uk/Uploads/Areview/131083066845.jpg

Here's a review of the 5th of the 6 part series:
Volume five of Media Blasters’ DVD release of the dark fantasy masterpiece Berserk maintains the high level of quality fans have come to expect from this series. Berserk stands as one of the most beloved fantasy anime series of all time, and this volume is no exception. If you’ve been watching the volumes as they come out, then you’re in for a few new surprises with this volume as the series plummets ever closer to its horrifying and sobering conclusion.

The episodes contained on this disc are just as important, if not more important, than any other episodes in the series. Unlike most other anime, Berserk is a chain with no weak links; every episode is absolutely integral to the storyline and must be viewed in sequential order to fully grasp the depth of the plot. Here, you will see Griffith begin his long descent in to chaos. You’ll see Caska and Guts draw closer to eachother, drawn together by an unspoken affection. You’ll see the rest of the White Hawks play out their final days together, struggling to maintain solidarity against impossible odds. The beautiful and terrifying drama of Berserk is in full force on this disc, and fans of the series will be pleased to no end.

SPOILERS AHEAD, IF THIS HAS PEAKED YOUR INTEREST I IMPORE YOU TO STOP READING HERE
The most significant occurrence on this disc is Griffith’s capture and subsequent torture. Before this volume, it was difficult to pinpoint exactly what went wrong with Griffith. Is he a good guy, or a bad guy? Was the Egg of the King a tool of corruption, or just a trinket? Those questions and more are finally answered here, and the result is a wondrously macabre bit of storytelling that will leave you breathless in anticipation for the conclusion. Until this point, Griffith was by far the most interesting character, but still a supporting player. He takes center stage in this release, and rightfully so; he is perhaps the most complicated and convincing anime villain ever to grace the small screen. Berserk’s screenwriting should be celebrated for being the sheer creative genius that it is. It’s almost impossible to find an action series that is this deep, with characters this textured and fleshed out. The series features truly three-dimensional characters, each with hopes, dreams and fears; as the series gets closer to the end, we see how frantic things have become, and the toll the stress is taking on each cast member. It’s brilliant writing, and while much is owed to Kentaro Miura’s original manga, the screenwriters must receive some credit.

The animation isn’t anything particular to write home about. The series does show its age, although the video presentation on this DVD seems sharper and crisper than previous volumes in this release. The music, however, is certainly worth praising. Scored by Susumu Hirasawa, the score leaps effortlessly from haunting and melodic to dark and sinister in the blink of an eye, maintaining credibility and flow throughout. Simply put, if you’re watching Berserk for eye candy, you’re watching for the wrong reasons. The show isn’t ugly or poorly animated by any means, but it is exceedingly dark and sometimes sparsely animated, so don’t expect the next Metropolis.

The dub is flawed, at best. Some of the voices are just not serious enough or sound a little too jokey and foppish to really be considered adequate. Gats sounds a little young and not harsh enough; Caska is a bit too bitchy. Griffith, one of the few well-cast voices, still flubs some of his lines with poor acting choices and bad inflection. The outtakes, included on the DVD, are absolutely hilarious and worth listening to even if you don’t watch the dub. Furthermore, there’s an interesting video interview with the producer of the series, who has a few interesting things to say. He also states that he’d like to work on a sequel, something that would be welcomed with open arms by the fan community.

All in all, if you have a single bone in your body that’s interested in dark fantasy, do not pass Berserk up. It is the finest example of its genre available on the market today and is based on a manga that nearly surpasses all others in terms of quality and popularity. The TV series was a resounding success and remains enchanting, entertaining and truly terrifying to this day. Watch this show.

Ya, so Berserk man!

Also, give Evangelion another try. Disc 1 did nothing for me, it gets heaps better at disc 2.

Also try Cowboy Bebop again. The series. Movie did nothing for me.

For a laugh watch Great Teacher Onizuka.

For sure, grab the first disc of Full Metal Alchemist. It's gonna go down as one of the best series ever. You should see that first disc.

Try Vampire Hunter D. The original and the sequel Bloodlust are both great. They are movies.

[madevil]

Oh, I forgot your question.

Not really.

Plot-wise it was weak. Action was decent though. Ill take any YuYuHakisho Dark Tournament episode over Appleseed any day though.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

What I really hate is whent people compare a 100 Million dollar film to an 8 million dollar film. That's like comparing my Chevy Cavileer to a Ferarri Enzo (or more acurately a tricycle to a Ferarri). Yeah, they are both cars... and that's about where the similarities end. Saying Appleseed Sucked because it didn't stack up to something like The Incredibles is like saying you hate all Chevy Cavileers because they don't stack up to a Ferarri.


Could you point out to me where anybody said Appleseed sucked because it didn't stack up to The Incredibles? I know I didn't.

I thought I laid out in excessive detail why I thought Appleseed sucked and none of my many reasons had anything to do with comparisons to The Incredibles. It was the DVD cover that compared Appleseed to The Incredibles. In fact, it said it was better than The Incredibles and was the best animated film of the year. So, you might want to take up your issues with whoever put together the DVD cover, not me. I certainly didn't go in expecting a film as good as The Incredibles, but I did go in expecting something...well... good.

[MKTerra]

I can tell you what Anime Series got me back into the swing of things. Most will agree:

Berserk!The way I've heard it, the anime ending leaves stuff wide open since it stopped before the manga.

[Pikachu]

Originally posted by Bored At 3:00AM
So, you might want to take up your issues with whoever put together the DVD cover, not me. I certainly didn't go in expecting a film as good as The Incredibles, but I did go in expecting something...well... good.

I didn't quote you saying it, and I didn't use your name, I was just stating a general pet peeve. It's really kind of strange to me when people, reviewers, critics, advertising groups, idnividuals, etc. come up with the gimmick that if we compare this to that everyone is going to buy this. Considering it's film and cinema, a movie like Appleseed has more in common with something like Mirror Mask than it does The Incredibles. Yet all of a sudden, there are people who read that review, buy the film, and question the quality of the movie without every questioning why a hundred million dollar budget can buy more labor than say a few million dollar budge? Of course the quality is going to be better when you have more time and money to spend. I'm just saying.

Still, considering the limited budget, the Appleseed film took many of the important parts from the manga and made a good film. What's more, the movie made sense, which is more than I can say about a lot of properties based off of manga.

Pika!

[madevil]

I didn't quote you saying it, and I didn't use your name, I was just stating a general pet peeve. It's really kind of strange to me when people, reviewers, critics, advertising groups, idnividuals, etc. come up with the gimmick that if we compare this to that everyone is going to buy this. Considering it's film and cinema, a movie like Appleseed has more in common with something like Mirror Mask than it does The Incredibles. Yet all of a sudden, there are people who read that review, buy the film, and question the quality of the movie without every questioning why a hundred million dollar budget can buy more labor than say a few million dollar budge? Of course the quality is going to be better when you have more time and money to spend. I'm just saying.

Still, considering the limited budget, the Appleseed film took many of the important parts from the manga and made a good film. What's more, the movie made sense, which is more than I can say about a lot of properties based off of manga.

Pika!


in short, do like flava flav, and dont believe the hype..... (or DVD covers)

The way I've heard it, the anime ending leaves stuff wide open since it stopped before the manga.

Yes thats correct.

[Xero Kaiser]

Damn, if you can't find something that stacks up to Ninja Scroll then you just aren't trying.

-Samurai Champloo
-Berserk
-Fullmetal Alchemist
-Bleach
-Naruto

But really, just picking a movie at random and asking "Is everything like this?" is kinda silly. Does one random title ever represent it's entire medium?

[Inkthinker]

I have been trying to track down a copy of this with English subtitles but haven't had any luck thus far. My job has me travelling abroad in Asia for years at time, so I'm generally at the mercy of whatever versions are available at the local video shops. And my Japanese sucks.

Same deal with Stand Alone Complex, unfortunately...

Both are usually readily available in the US, at just about any major retail outlet... next time you're home, stock up! I got Steam Boy and all 7 volumes of Samurai Champloo at Best Buy, and I've seen GitS: SAC and 2ng Gig DVDs there as well.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

But really, just picking a movie at random and asking "Is everything like this?" is kinda silly. Does one random title ever represent it's entire medium?

Actually, one film, or book or TV show can give someone a pretty good idea where a medium is at any particular moment.

If someone had watched an episode of "Survivor" a few years ago, that would give people a general idea of where Primetime TV was at the time, when reality TV ruled the roost.

Likewise, you could read any collection of "Spider-Man" issues from each decade, that could give you a pretty good idea of where the superhero genre was at that particular time.

Is this an exact science? Of course not, but you can usually get a pretty good idea of where a medium is by checking out one of its more popular titles, which I thought Appleseed was. I have since learned that it is generally regarded as crap by most fans and critics. Visually accomplished, certainly, but crap none the less.