Sabretooth and Wolverine - a lesson in....

[bagheera]

I'm requesting a little help here please.

I have been doing a superhero therapy group with several dozen teenage boys. We discuss how heroes are people who do the right thing even when it's hard, even when it requires sacrifice. They overcome obstacles and rise above difficult situations and people.

Next week they want me to do a group on Wolverine and Sabretooth. I figured I would compare and contrast the two. Seeing the wealth of comic fans on this forum, I decided to ask for the thoughts and observations of you all. Is there a classic story that most exemplifies these two characters? A favorite pic? (Please skip the gay pic of them. It isn't canon afterall. :p )

Any input would be appreciated. Many of the boys really like Logan because he's so tough and strong. I encourage them to see how he has risen above many tragedies and successfully managed to control his beserker rages through self-discipline and honor.

Thanks for any suggestions. :cool:

[Brian M.]

Beast Stay Away From This Thread!!!!!

[Porcelain]

Are you Seth from the OC? :p

You'd have to do the birthday thing, #41 (only cos I had a trade to hand) with Cable and Elsie Dee might be handy - Hama's good at any rate. Maybe Logan's writing in the snow to Creed (Summers wedding)/Logan lobotomising him previously - beyond that pretty much all their 'stand offs' are alike to me (and I hated the native).

Fav pic: writing in the snow.

[bagheera]

Writing in the snow? I'm confused. :confused:

[streator]

wolverine= man fighting to keep the beast within
sabretooth= man happy to let the beast out

or

wolverine as discipline
sabretooth as letting go (negative sanctions)

[The Lucky One]

The absolute best story you could have them read, Bagheera, would be the Wolverine/Sabretooth battle that occurs during the Mutant Massacre. The specific issues are Uncanny X-Men #212-213, featuring the first (and still greatest) fight between the two of them, at least the first that readers had seen. The reason it might suit your purposes well is that it really illuminates the differences between the two, and shows you that even though they're so similar, Wolverine has learned from his time with the X-Men, bettering himself and becoming a true hero. Sabretooth has a hostage -- the Morlock healer, who can save the survivors of the Massacre -- and even though Wolverine wants nothing more than to stay and battle Sabretooth to the death, he makes the right choice, abandoning the fight to get the healer back to the mansion safely instead. It's an action he never would have taken in his early days with the team, and a great example of the control and responsibility he learned with the X-Men.

"You were right, Sabretooth. You're the killer. I'm a man who sometimes kills. We're too evenly matched. We could've fought till doomsday, with neither of us winning. In younger days, I'd have given that a shot, for the fun. Just like Sabretooth. Road was easier then. But that's past. I've changed. I've learned about honor. A hard road, more often than not. But worth the effort."

But after all that, the second half of the story (UXM #212) has not only the first Psylocke/Sabretooth showdown, but shows what happens when Wolverine gets his rematch later... and it ain't pretty. Anyway, yeah... that's probably the best story of that type you could gind for them, Bagheera. Good luck, let us know how it goes!
:)

-D

[captain gloves]

Writing in the snow? I'm confused. :confused:
at jean & cyclops's wedding. sabertooth off in the woods, considering raising some hell. he heard a noise, looked over, and saw something along the lines of "don't even think about it" written in the snow.

[bagheera]

Thanks so much, Lucky One! I'll dig that one out!

I've read and own all the Wolverine issues and most of the Uncanny issues, but I am not good at remembering issue numbers so I appreciate you giving me the numbers.

Speaking of, can anyone tell me the number of the "writing in the snow" issue. That would be a good storyline to point out to them, too. These young boys really need to learn about self-restraint and honor. The quote you gave me is too good! I will read them these issues for sure.

[sherlockbones]

Frank Millers first Wolverine Mini Series has the best moments showing Logan´s struggle against the beast. Unworthy, disgraced and humiliated he bests himself and regains his humanity. Plenty of good images

[YoungG03]

The absolute best story you could have them read, Bagheera, would be the Wolverine/Sabretooth battle that occurs during the Mutant Massacre. The specific issues are Uncanny X-Men #212-213, featuring the first (and still greatest) fight between the two of them, at least the first that readers had seen. The reason it might suit your purposes well is that it really illuminates the differences between the two, and shows you that even though they're so similar, Wolverine has learned from his time with the X-Men, bettering himself and becoming a true hero. Sabretooth has a hostage -- the Morlock healer, who can save the survivors of the Massacre -- and even though Wolverine wants nothing more than to stay and battle Sabretooth to the death, he makes the right choice, abandoning the fight to get the healer back to the mansion safely instead. It's an action he never would have taken in his early days with the team, and a great example of the control and responsibility he learned with the X-Men.

"You were right, Sabretooth. You're the killer. I'm a man who sometimes kills. We're too evenly matched. We could've fought till doomsday, with neither of us winning. In younger days, I'd have given that a shot, for the fun. Just like Sabretooth. Road was easier then. But that's past. I've changed. I've learned about honor. A hard road, more often than not. But worth the effort."

But after all that, the second half of the story (UXM #212) has not only the first Psylocke/Sabretooth showdown, but shows what happens when Wolverine gets his rematch later... and it ain't pretty. Anyway, yeah... that's probably the best story of that type you could gind for them, Bagheera. Good luck, let us know how it goes!
:)

-D


I thought Logan learned honor in Japan.........

[gary]

Thanks so much, Lucky One! I'll dig that one out!

I've read and own all the Wolverine issues and most of the Uncanny issues, but I am not good at remembering issue numbers so I appreciate you giving me the numbers.

Speaking of, can anyone tell me the number of the "writing in the snow" issue. That would be a good storyline to point out to them, too. These young boys really need to learn about self-restraint and honor. The quote you gave me is too good! I will read them these issues for sure.

'Writing in the snow' is issue 30 of X-Men

[Tobias March]

Wolverine and Sabretooth are strapped down to two neighbouring leather couches in a psychoanalyt's office. He sits before them taking notes.

Analyst: Apologies gentlemen. To ensure your safety and mine we have injected you with a paralysing agent. Now who would care to start?

Wolvie: Bub, when my legs wake up, I'm going to make you pay.

Creed: Haw, haw, haw. What're you going to do? Give him a spanking?

Analyst: Yes James, could you explain the difference between yourself and your one-time comrade?

Wolvie: He's an animal. He's got no right to be walking about - even on hind legs.

Analyst: Is that why you once tried to kill him while he was under the custody of Charles Xavier?

Wolvie: It wasn't an execution. He needed to be put down.

Creed: Didn't take though.

Analyst: Yes how do you feel, seeing as you are both for all intents and purposes immortal?

Creed: Life's good. World's full of creatures I can kill.

Analyst: James?

Wolvie: I see no point in thinking about tomorrow.

Creed: Or yesterday. Or the day before that and the day before that, haw haw. Poor Wolviekins doesn' know much of anything. Heads full of lies.

Analyst: And you Mr. Creed, haven't you been manipulated?

Creed: Mr Creed? I like the sound of that, hunh. Man's gotta care 'fore he can be manipulated. I'm just having myself a good time. And it's tearing my buddy here up inside.

Analyst: What about family? Both of you have father children. Do you feel any sense of obligation to them?

Wolvie: Another lie. They cloned a girl from me. Weird thing is she feels like my daughter. But she's not. Don't know how I feel about that.

Analyst: Ah...Victor?

Creed: This stopped being fun alluva sudden.

Analyst: You had a son didn't you?

Creed: Boy's dead. No more to tell.

Analyst: How does that make you feel?

Creed: Don't feel nothing. Tell me Mister Doctor - did you lock that door when you came in?

Analyst: No I don't believe I...

Creed: Oh goody.

Sabretooth breaks free of his restraints, but before he can leap on the analyst Wolverine pops a claw in his skull.

Wolvie: Sorry bout that. He's gonna be sleepy for a bit. Wanna keep goin'?

[Beast]

Beast Stay Away From This Thread!!!!!
Awwww.... but everyone loves that picture. :D

[DDM]

There's also the story from Uncanny X-Men #207 when Wolverine confronts Phoenix & tries to get her to stop from murdering Selene, the Black Queen in the heat of passion. He explains to Phoenix that heroes do not murder people in cold blood even if they are evil. He stabs her through the heart & lungs because Rachel Summers, as Phoenix, is too powerful for Wolverine in his weakened state.

Uncanny X-Men #205 is a good Wolverine story. Lady Deathstrike willingly turns herself into an adamantium-laced cyborg through Spiral's Body Shoppe to be more like Wolverine. Lady Deathstrike believes she'll regain her humanity through the death of Wolverine. Wolverine refuses to kill Deathstrike because she has no honor for herself.