Mutant League 2006: The Final! - Siddon & venuscameback vs. The Fury

[mattbib]

Welcome to the long awaited final round of Mutant League 2006!

In the first corner we have Siddon & venuscameback's Hellfire & Brimstone (Selene, Firestar, Collective Man, Skids, Emma Frost, Whirlwind, Skein)

vs

The Fury's Inducers of Pandemonium in the Realm of Death (Rogue, Multiple Man, Mentallo, Sub-Mariner, Thunderbird, Arclight, Toad)

Both participants have submitted strategies:

Please do not post or vote until both strategies have been posted and read.

[mattbib]

Introductory note: Rogue might theoretically be able to absorb the powers of someone who's unconscious but she wouldn’t take the massively increased risk of killing them or of permamently absorbing their powers and memories - that would be out of character. She's dangerous, yes, and will fight mean and hard, but she won't risk killing an ally unless it’s a desperate situation - so our aim is to take Madrox out before he can be absorbed or before absorption is complete.

If Rogue tries to absorb Namor’s strength and invulnerability or Mentallo’s psychic abilities first, she still has problems as we’ve made them our primary targets in the opening moments of the match.

Arclight’s earthquakes will have minimal effect on our team – Skids glides freely over the earth so no tremor should affect her movement, Whirlwind moves too fast for the tremors to trouble him and Firestar is in flight from the start. Selene is a vastly experienced fighter with earth control powers of her own that will make her difficult to put off balance. She’s also shown great determination under fire so we know she’s tough to distract and able to focus beyond such environmental factors.

Initial actions, all simultaneous:


Emma closes her eyes in case of an initial blinding flash from Thunderbird or Rogue, and psi-links the team. She then telepathically projects battlefield positions into the minds of anyone blinded on our side through the psi-link and prepares to defend against Mentallo: if Mentallo attacks anyone on our team psychically he will have to go through Emma – a much more powerful and experienced TP – first.


Firestar takes to the sky, and fires microwaves at Madrox, who crumples and falls given his lack of defences against energy attacks - and *then* makes a blinding flash – if our opponents close their eyes for the first second of battle they will open them and then be blinded. Firestar keeps moving in the air, she’s a tricky target to hit when on the move.


Whirlwind goes for Mentallo – he runs forward at top speed and either ploughs into Mentallo with his saw blades (if he’s grounded) or runs forward and fires air blasts at him so that even if Mentallo takes to the air, Whirlwind is on him and has him.


Skids envelops Skein & Emma Frost and 'skates' as fast as she can across the battlefield.


Skein, inside Skids, tries to attack Rogue, and when she's close enough Skein uses her organics control to seal the valves and blood vessels in Rogue’s heart, giving her a massive heart attack.


The 40 Collective Men surround and stay close to Selene to intercept any incoming physical attack & are available as a food source for Selene as needed. Half (20) of The Collective Men start forming five larger versions behind Selene, for increased durability and strength, & to better block aerial attacks


Selene uses her fire powers on Namor, burning and dehydrating him, swiftly removing the King of Atlantis from the battle. If Namor or anyone else comes for Selene they will have to plough through 40 TCM first, while Selene’s telepathy means her line of sight and accuracy is unaffected by the crowd

State of play after initial actions: Mentallo, Madrox & Namor are down
Follow-up actions:


Whirlwind ensures Mentallo and Namor are down and out


Firestar keeps moving, and continues to microwave Madrox to ensure he is out the battle.


Emma plays defence unless Mentallo is already down - in which case she psi-bolts Thunderbird, an inexperienced opponent, unconscious


Skids continues to skate towards Rogue, allowing Skein to cause Rogue's major heart attack. Skids skates pretty fast so Skein should be in range by the start of this action. If there is more than one Rogue in play, Skein & Skids turn on them one by one


Selene psi-bolts Toad; his vaunted agility won't help him against mental attacks


The five larger TCM stand guard over Selene while the other half (20) combine into 1 giant figure. This giant roars off in search of any remaining opponents who need mopping up, leaving 5 giants in defence of Selene and as available food sources for her to recharge should she need to
Mopping up:


Firestar microwaves Arclight. Knowing Arclight has thick skin, she will use high-intensity blasts that will take Arclight down. Arclight's tough but not known for her stamina


Selene and Emma fire psi-bolts at any remaining opponents


Whirlwind and Skein target anyone left standing

[mattbib]

Note:

Recently, Rogue has absorbed another person many times and always has full control over her body and knows she is herself. Also, my team's thoughts and actions are to take out the other team and win. So, if Rogue absorbs anyone on my team she still knows she has to take out the other team and is not confused.

In Madrox #3 it is stated that when Madrox wears something it also duplicates. This is said while he sits in a cupboard with handcuffs on.

In X-men #161. Rogue absorbs Polaris’ powers. Both Polaris and Rogue were shown to be conscious and using Polaris’ powers at the same time in that issue.

Sunfire’s powers: They are also plasma energy based not fire based, so Selene has no control over them.

Initial Actions: (Happen together, unless stated)

My team flies upwards, Mentallo and Thunderbird on their own, Namor carries Arclight, Rogue carries Madrox. Toad is left on the ground (see Toad's mission).


Mentallo psi-bolts Selene and Emma. Skein is of no worry to me as her range is only 50 feet. (As said in the OHOTMU Deluxe Ed.). My team is 100 yards away.


Thunderbird fires a flash of light, then fires concussive beams at the other side to stop any initial attack. There are 46 of them so are easy targets.


Rogue absorbs Madrox. As soon as she has, Mentallo quickly takes off his helmet (after the initial psi-bolts to those listed above) and puts it on Rogue. Rogue then makes 5 dupes. As a new dupe appears, this dupe will take their helmet off and put it on my other team members, one for each, Namor, Arclight, Thunderbird, drops one for Toad on the ground and gives one back to Mentallo. My team is now completely psi-immune making any mental attack by Selene or Emma useless.


After the above is complete my team continues flying upwards to an altitude of 1 mile or so, far out of sight. Only 2 on my opposing team can fly, if they try to attack while I approach this altitude, the 5 spare Rogues will attack them.
Primary Actions:

My team is at their desired height, out of sight of my opponents and totally psi-immune. With 5 Rogues standing guard.


Mentallo switches targets to Firestar and starts psi-bolting her.

Before the next action, please consider the notes at the top of the page.


While all my team is hovering high up, the original Rogue now approaches everyone of my team, she will give the unconscious Madrox to Namor and she will touch them all for enough time so she has their powers and they remain conscious while having their powers intact. Rogue now has the powers of Sunfire (solar fire, with heat shield), Namor (Class 85, great durability), Thunderbird (plasma energy), Arclight (earthquakes), Madrox (dupes), Mentallo (telepathy, mind bolts) and herself (power absorption).


She will then dupe the max of 40 Rogues (so another 34 as there are 6 already).


The 35 Super-Rogues (not the 5 Sunfire-Madrox-Rogues) and Thunderbird will now spread out and fire large beams of plasma energy via Thunderbird’s power down on the opposing team. All the energy beams differ in size, intensity and heat or concussive.
Main Actions:

Mentallo now switches targets, he will commence on attacking the mind of Skids, if he send mind bolt to her, she will lose control over her shield and could drop it. Her shield is the only thing protecting her team from the energy beam rain attack by the Super-Rogues. Mentallo will put his full force into this to taking her mind out completely.


After a short time, the Rogues will stop. 7 of them will now accompany Mentallo in using mind bolts, this includes the original. The other 5 lesser Rogues stay where they are while the other 28 Super-Rogues fly at top speed towards the ground and my opposing team. Thunderbird will lower himself to a range where he has visual on the other team and continue firing.


Meanwhile, Namor carrying Arclight and the unconscious Madrox, will fly and land about 1 mile from the main action. Namor will set Madrox down and carry Arclight and fly into the main battleground.


Mentallo and 6 of the Super-Rogues will now all mind bolt Selene. Emma can’t do anything telepathically to my team, so has to change to diamond form to protect from mind bolts and harm. Selene will have to try and protect herself these attacks. The other Super-Rogue will mind bolt Skein if she is still alive.


Now, IF Toad’s mission (see below) has failed, as the 28 Super-Rogues come to the ground they will:

- 4 Rogues will attack the 40 Collective Men, many could have been taken out by the energy beams. These 4 Rogues will land amongst them and smash the ground. 4 Rogue at now each Class 85 will do serious damage to the ground and create a big earthquake. Namor and Arclight will help in taking TCM out.

- Another 4 Rogues will go and find Emma Frost. Using Namor’s strength and Thunderbirds energy beams they will attack keeping her busy and in diamond form. Hopefully knocking her out.

- 5 Rogues will fly to attack Firestar, firing energy beams at her to hit her until she goes down.

- 5 Rogues will chase down Whirlwind, he can move at 50 mph, Namor can fly at 60 mph. They will find his and rip his armour apart and knock him out.

- 5 Rogues will find Skein and as she is being mind bolted by another Rogue high up will not be able to concentrate to let of an attack at them, they easily take her out.

- The last 5 Rogues will start attacking Selene Physically, she has a massless form if she wants but with other Rogues and Mentallo mind bolting her she might have to remain solid. Selene could go will go down but I doubt it. (sadly).
Final Actions:

Everyone but Selene, Emma and maybe a few Collective Men are out. The 5 Rogues who attacked Whirlwind will now join the ones attacking the Collective men and knock them all out, of there is one giant this is even easier job.


Another 5 Rogues will join attacking Emma, given time and effort she will go down, she’s durable (as diamond is) but if they can’t take her down for some unknown reason, they will keep her busy.


The other 5 Spare Rogues will now fly to away from the battle and join mind bolting Selene.


The original Rogue will now fly down to Emma Frost. If Emma has not been taken out, then the original Rogue will touch her and take her out.


The Every Rogue will now retreat to a safe distance. They will all start mind bolting Selene. Selene is powerful but the more she uses her powers the weaker she becomes and fast. As there is no person she can absorb near her, Selene’s power will fade quickly and she will be over come. With the original Rogue having now Emma’s TP, she will change to human form and with the might of Emma’s TP and another 30 or so Rogues mind bolting Selene, they will disable Selene.

All of the above actions may change in relation to the success of Toad’s mission (see below).
Toad’s mission: (begins during Intial Actions)
Toad was left on the ground. He has a psi-immune helmet making it so Emma and Selene cannot attack him and can’t sense him. No one respects Toad and I doubt my opponents will either.

He will take most of my opponents out alone.

He moves across the battlefield as low to the ground as possible so not to be seen by anyone. He approaches as close as he can to Skein. Toad will shoot his tongue and lick her, making her fall under his will. If she is in the sky he will leap as well to give him the extra reach.

Skeins power allows her to move fabric and/or soft materials, the human body is very soft and she can manipulate human tissue easily. Toad place his hands on Skein giving him more control over her as he emit’s the pheromones from his fingers also, will order Skein to crush Skids heart (or rip it out whatever is best).

With Skids out, Emma is unshielded. Toad will order Skein to do the same trick on Emma, this should kill her. In the presumption that Emma turned to diamond before Skein had a chance to crush her heart. Toad will order Skein to crush Firestar’s heart and he will leave Skein and leap to attack Emma. She cannot attack him via TP as she will be in her diamond form, if she is not she was killed by Skein just now. Toad is a far better fighter then Emma and he will spit in her face to distract her and use his very strong legs to kick her and force her back and off her feet. Toad will then leap to near Whirlwind, he is fast but Toad has great agility, Toad will spit in his face so Whirlwind cannot see (it is presumed that Whirlwind’s balance is via his sight, so this will hinder him greatly) and leap back to Skein and tell her to disable Whirlwind in the same manner as she did with Skids, Emma and Firestar.

At this point it is presumed some Collective Men or a giant will attack him and Skein. Toad will quickly snap Skein’s neck and jump back to avoid any attack. He will jump back and lick this Collective man. He will take him over and force him to call every other Collective man to this one to create one giant. With Toad riding on his shoulder placing his fingers on the Collective Man’s bare neck to allow the pheromones to enter him.

If Emma is still in the match, Toad will order the Collective Man to pick Emma up and use her as a diamond hard weapon. Toad will then order the Collective Man to attack Selene. Selene could easily take out TCM (and Toad). And probably will but this is enough distraction to give the rest of my team to disable Selene (and Emma, if she is still in the game).

Toad’s mission is complete. Give him respect.

[The Fury]

...Wow, mines a lot longer then Siddon&Venus'.

Sorry. But please take time to read it. :)

[The Lucky One]

Hmm... interesting. Neither side did quite what I would have expected, but that might be a good thing. I'll admit, I was extremely surprised that venus and Siddon used an attack on Madrox that would take a couple of seconds to execute (flying up in the air, aiming, firing), and the same for Rogue with Skein's attack... it's a gamble not taking one or the other of them out instantly, though it may work out, we'll see. I was going to question Fury's usage of Rogue absorbing someone's powers but them still being able to use the powers as well -- yes, it was done that one time, but it was in an Austen issue -- but then realized that venus and Siddon were putting Austenization to use as well with Collective Man's modified powers, so I guess it's all legal. ( :rolleyes: ) This one requires more thought.

-D

[Joe Zool]

Gotta go with Fury on this one. His gameplan was just stronger.

[Siddon]

Rogue now has the powers of Sunfire (solar fire, with heat shield), Namor (Class 85, great durability), Thunderbird (plasma energy), Arclight (earthquakes), Madrox (dupes), Mentallo (telepathy, mind bolts) and herself (power absorption).

This is a huge mistake, Rogue doesn't just absorb powers but also personalities, Madrox as we have seen in recent issues has villianous dupes. Rogue abosorbs villians, and egotists. Frankly this should take her out as half of her dupes will be fighting the other half of her dupes.

[Fabian]

Rogue now has the powers of Sunfire (solar fire, with heat shield), Namor (Class 85, great durability), Thunderbird (plasma energy), Arclight (earthquakes), Madrox (dupes), Mentallo (telepathy, mind bolts) and herself (power absorption).

This is a huge mistake, Rogue doesn't just absorb powers but also personalities, Madrox as we have seen in recent issues has villianous dupes. Rogue abosorbs villians, and egotists. Frankly this should take her out as half of her dupes will be fighting the other half of her dupes.
Recently, Rogue has absorbed another person many times and always has full control over her body and knows she is herself. Also, my team's thoughts and actions are to take out the other team and win. So, if Rogue absorbs anyone on my team she still knows she has to take out the other team and is not confused.
Go Fury. He has a tighter plan

[Siddon]

Originally Posted by the fury
Recently, Rogue has absorbed another person many times and always has full control over her body and knows she is herself. Also, my team's thoughts and actions are to take out the other team and win. So, if Rogue absorbs anyone on my team she still knows she has to take out the other team and is not confused.

Thats Rogue but you see Fury has Rogue and Madrox together, Madrox has a history of not being able to control his dupes. Recently Madrox's dupes tried to kill him(See Madrox and X-factor). Because Madrox's powers are based on changing personalities and different aspects of said personality. So if you have Rogue using Madrox's powers then she is using all of Madrox's powers not just the parts that look good on paper.

My team flies upwards, Mentallo and Thunderbird on their own, Namor carries Arclight, Rogue carries Madrox. Toad is left on the ground (see Toad's mission).

Doesn't work you can't carry a human being a mile in the air and expect them to survive. The human body (and Madrox still has a human body he gets viruses) needs to keep a constant state of preassure when a person climbs Mt. Everset they need to do this slowly, when I person deep sea dives they need to come up slowly they need to do this because if they don't they will get the bends which is basically an explosion of their insides.

The strategy also doesn't work, we target Madrox, Namor, and Mentallo first. Mentallo is not faster then Whirlwind, Madrox is not defended by anyone.

[venuscameback]

I was going to question Fury's usage of Rogue absorbing someone's powers but them still being able to use the powers as well -- yes, it was done that one time, but it was in an Austen issue -- but then realized that venus and Siddon were putting Austenization to use as well with Collective Man's modified powers, so I guess it's all legal. ( :rolleyes: ) This one requires more thought.
-D

The difference here is that Matt ruled on how the Collective Man's powers worked and the 198 Files backed that up

Good battleplan, Kri, but Rogue's absorption of Madrox won't be instant - it's going to take a couple of seconds; sure Firestar needs a second to aim and fire - she's experienced and won't need significantly more than that - but I'm confident she can microwave Madrox before Rogue has time to absorb Madrox's powers.

Mentallo's not fast enough to evade Whirlwind and Selene is on Namor from the start, burning and dehydrating him, so Namor wion't be flying anyone anywhere - which causes problems for Kri's opening moves

venus

[venuscameback]

Let's not forget that Kri's team are blinded and not psi-linked ... while some of our team are blinded, and psi-linked by Emma.

So Thunderbird takes to the air, cool, but after his first volley he's firing/flying blind, and Toad is blind whilst trying to accomplish his mission

and when Selene takes Namor down as her opening action, if he got off the ground then Arclight takes a bumpy fall to the ground

Mentallo now switches targets, he will commence on attacking the mind of Skids, if he send mind bolt to her, she will lose control over her shield and could drop it. Her shield is the only thing protecting her team from the energy beam rain attack by the Super-Rogues. Mentallo will put his full force into this to taking her mind out completely.

We are careful to take down Mentallo in the opening move, with Whirlwind right onto him. Even if he miraculously survives this attack, Emma is playing defensive inside Skids' shield and is written as intercepting Mentallo's attacks - and Emma's more than a match for Mentallo.

He moves across the battlefield as low to the ground as possible so not to be seen by anyone. He approaches as close as he can to Skein. Toad will shoot his tongue and lick her, making her fall under his will. If she is in the sky he will leap as well to give him the extra reach.

Toad’s mission is complete. Give him respect.

We give Toad respect, and didn't disregard him as predicted - he's Selene's second target afterall. She goes for Toad long before he's had chance to get a duplicate of Mentallo's helmet that fell out the sky, and put it on.

Which means that neither attempt to defeat Skids works

venus

[The Lucky One]

The difference here is that Matt ruled on how the Collective Man's powers worked and the 198 Files backed that up

It's not a difference, though. I may not LIKE it, but the Mutant League rules have always been that if it happened in an in-continuity issue, it's fair game. I personally don't like the idea that Rogue can steal powers but the original owner can use them at the same time, and I hope we'll never see it again in the comics, but it is technically legal for Fury to do.

-D

[venuscameback]

It's not a difference, though. I may not LIKE it, but the Mutant League rules have always been that if it happened in an in-continuity issue, it's fair game. I personally don't like the idea that Rogue can steal powers but the original owner can use them at the same time, and I hope we'll never see it again in the comics, but it is technically legal for Fury to do.

-D

Hey, if you think the move works, that's cool.

What i'm highlighting is that in the instance of the controversial writing of a character that's out of kilter with their previous appearances, we confirmed with Matt what they could or couldn't do before selecting them. We didn't assume TCM could do what w ehave him do, we got a ruling on it before selecting him. That's the difference i'm highlighting. If you're happy with Rogue doing what Kri has him do, fair enough

venus

[StarsAndGarters]

Very nice strategies, both, er, all three of you! :D I need to think some more.

[venuscameback]

Very nice strategies, both, er, all three of you! :D I need to think some more.

I gotta say, despite the problems i'm naturally finding with it, I do think Kri wrote another excellent strategy. Sure, I think ours works better but I would ;)

venus

[StarsAndGarters]

I gotta say, despite the problems i'm naturally finding with it, I do think Kri wrote another excellent strategy. Sure, I think ours works better but I would ;)

venusI had to review a bit, but it looks to me like taking out Madrox seems to take place before Rogue can get finished absorbing his powers. I say this goes to Ian and Siddon.

[The Fury]

The strategy also doesn't work, we target Madrox, Namor, and Mentallo first. Mentallo is not faster then Whirlwind, Madrox is not defended by anyone.
Madrox powers are absorbed by Rogue straight away. Madrox is made unconsious, I do not need him again. She can easily absorb his powers before Firestar can travel in range and fire a beam of energy that will put him out of the battle (she would not kill him).

Selene's fire powers. She has control over fire, I know that. But I didn't think she could produce them? In the Handbook it states that she tk control over inanimate objects and fire. Doesn't say anything about creating fire. Also, Namor has fought both human Torches on numerous occastion will no real worry for an extended period of time, he will not go down that easy.

Whirlwind takes time to stravel the distance, by then there will be the 5 spare Rogues to defend Mentallo, who will be flying hi in the air anyway.

Hey, if you think the move works, that's cool.

What i'm highlighting is that in the instance of the controversial writing of a character that's out of kilter with their previous appearances, we confirmed with Matt what they could or couldn't do before selecting them. We didn't assume TCM could do what w ehave him do, we got a ruling on it before selecting him. That's the difference i'm highlighting. If you're happy with Rogue doing what Kri has him do, fair enough

venus
This said by a team that has a character that before Austen suddenly ressurected him and completely changed his power, was only 5 Chinese brothers....that were dead. :)

[The Fury]

Let's not forget that Kri's team are blinded and not psi-linked ... while some of our team are blinded, and psi-linked by Emma.

So Thunderbird takes to the air, cool, but after his first volley he's firing/flying blind, and Toad is blind whilst trying to accomplish his mission

and when Selene takes Namor down as her opening action, if he got off the ground then Arclight takes a bumpy fall to the ground
Okay what makes you think my team are looking at your team? Other then maybe Thunderbird, none of my team are attacking yours and most are looking upwards as that is the direction in which the are traveling, I am not looking at your team.

Also, Sunfire's shield protects Rogue from flashes of light. In a way I can defeat you with just her absorbing everyone's powers.

And no way is Namor taken by a bit of fire. Guys faced both Human Torches with no worries. But Selene's fire (which come from nowhere I might add) takes him.

We give Toad respect, and didn't disregard him as predicted - he's Selene's second target afterall. She goes for Toad long before he's had chance to get a duplicate of Mentallo's helmet that fell out the sky, and put it on.

Which means that neither attempt to defeat Skids works

venus
Selene second attack...well as she can't really take Namor down that easy with a bit of fire....you got yourself a problem.

[The Fury]

I had to review a bit, but it looks to me like taking out Madrox seems to take place before Rogue can get finished absorbing his powers. I say this goes to Ian and Siddon.
Firestar has to start flying and fire a beam of energy athat also disables Madrox. It does not matter if Rogue completely absorbs his powers, but as long as she has held on long enough, I have plenty of time to do this. Firestar is not next to my team.

[The Fury]

I gotta say, despite the problems i'm naturally finding with it, I do think Kri wrote another excellent strategy. Sure, I think ours works better but I would ;)

venus
Fury: Mine works better.

Venus: No, Mine works better.

Fury: No, Mine works better.

Venus: No, Mine works better.

Fury: No, Mine works better.

etc etc etc. :D

[The Fury]

First, Siddon and Venus, nice strategy....shorter then I expected (makes mine look stupid. :) ) but good none the less.

First, you seem to take out Namor, Madrox and Mentallo really easily. I mean really easily. Mentallo is flying at the time you attack him. Whirlwind is never said to fly so he's safe. Firestar needs to travel a small distance then fire a beam and then hit him without killing him (she is a hero) while Rogue is absorbing him. Rogue is going to absorb him. And Namor, First, i did not know Selene can produce her own fire, I thought she only controlled it. But Namor is not going to go down by a little fire when that guy has taken on HT1 and 2 and won.

Although full credit to your plan which has it's simplicities. Shame that Selene and Emma mind bolting everyone to take them out does not work bue to them all having Mentallo's helmets. :)

[venuscameback]

First, you seem to take out Namor, Madrox and Mentallo really easily. I mean really easily. Mentallo is flying at the time you attack him. Whirlwind is never said to fly so he's safe.


From our strategy:

Whirlwind goes for Mentallo – he runs forward at top speed and either ploughs into Mentallo with his saw blades (if he’s grounded) or runs forward and fires air blasts at him so that even if Mentallo takes to the air, Whirlwind is on him and has him.

Nice try mate ;)

venus

[venuscameback]

Okay what makes you think my team are looking at your team? Other then maybe Thunderbird, none of my team are attacking yours and most are looking upwards as that is the direction in which the are traveling, I am not looking at your team.


Don't forget that Firestar is also flying ... Toad is grounded, Thunderbird is looking our way, Namor is under attack from Selene (exposing Arclight, who's meant to be in Namor's arms), and so it goes ...

venus

[Tre Styles]

Wow. Pulled out all the stops on this one!

There seems to be a lot of things happening in Fury's strategy that are initally blocked by Venus. I wonder if Mentallo while flying can attack both Emma and Selene, who are far superior psis than he....with or without his helmet, and then they are taking time to make all these dupes, and pass out helmets...so who's protecting them while they are strapping on their helmets? Where is the protection at from Firestar's blasts and blinding flashes?

Also Rogue is used....overused a lot. I don't see how she's going to get the time to just go and absorb everybody while the other team is attacking.

But I going to reread again, because these are two very good strategies, and I may have missed something, but these things were the intial things that popped into my head. ;)

[The Fury]

There seems to be a lot of things happening in Fury's strategy that are initally blocked by Venus. I wonder if Mentallo while flying can attack both Emma and Selene, who are far superior psis than he....with or without his helmet, and then they are taking time to make all these dupes, and pass out helmets...so who's protecting them while they are strapping on their helmets? Where is the protection at from Firestar's blasts and blinding flashes?

Also Rogue is used....overused a lot. I don't see how she's going to get the time to just go and absorb everybody while the other team is attacking.

I don't know about Siddon and Venus, but I pulled the stops out. Had too, no eas way to take both Selene and Emma out.

Mentallo's flight is via a jet pack. Once activated that does the work, he has been seen to use his telepathy and jet pack at the same time.

And the Helmets need only to be placed on their head to protect them. No one ever removes them after.

You are right, Firestar could do damage, but it takes time to cross the battle field and fire upon my team, by then there maybe the spare Rogues to protect people.

Also, Rogue absorbs everyone while high in altitude. The only character who might go up there to attac is Firestar but thre are the 5 Rogue there to protect everyone.

Thanks for the imput Tre, I wonder how you migh have faired against Selene and Emma. Would have been an interesting match indeed.

[venuscameback]

Wow. Pulled out all the stops on this one!

There seems to be a lot of things happening in Fury's strategy that are initally blocked by Venus. I wonder if Mentallo while flying can attack both Emma and Selene, who are far superior psis than he....with or without his helmet, and then they are taking time to make all these dupes, and pass out helmets...so who's protecting them while they are strapping on their helmets? Where is the protection at from Firestar's blasts and blinding flashes?

Also Rogue is used....overused a lot. I don't see how she's going to get the time to just go and absorb everybody while the other team is attacking.

But I going to reread again, because these are two very good strategies, and I may have missed something, but these things were the intial things that popped into my head. ;)

I agree.


Kri's strategy takes far too long to put into effect, leaving his team extremely vulnerable to attack.

With Emma on defence Mentallo's attack is moot & when he falls to Whirlwind he will fall - meaning Rogue has to follow him down to grab the helmet before she can dupe up.

and I really don't think the altitude is going to be a barrier to Emma - once Mentallo falls, she goes on the offensive

venus

[Doom Hammer]

So, In Venus and Siddon's strategy, it's all very quick and efficient. Good use of Firestar and Emma to start the round off, especially in incapacitating Madrox. Also, Skein was used very efficiently.

The Fury has some cool tricks up his sleeve, I'm impressed. However, Venus' strategy kicks off with Emma and Firestar distracting the team for just a couple seconds, in which time Firestar mircrowaves Madrox. If this works (which it seems to, I see no reason why not), then the whole super-Rogue strategy is pretty much useless, as Madrox is down within the first couple seconds. Additionally, the super-Rogues would theoretically possess the same multiple and uncooperative personalities that Jamie is currently struggling with, and even refusing to use his dupes in same cases. Finally, though Toad's mission commands respect, travelling 100 yards would take several seconds at least, especially if he's going for stealth, by which point most of Venus and Siddon's strategy would be mostly completed, or at least well in. And there's a good chance tht Firestar, flying and gunning for the opposing side, would see Toad and fry him before he even gets to start his mission.

Nice strategy, Fury, you have some genius moves. But I have to give it to Siddon and Ian for taking care of it more quickly than your strategy allows.

[mattbib]

Plenty of time to vote for those who want to take their time reading the strategies. :)

[Jessica Drew]

I think Siddon/venuscameback take this one because they seem to take out Madrox just as Rogues is absorbing his powers, and because they attack an un-defended Mentallo.

BTW, mattbib, I love your new avatar.

[Spirit of vengeance]

This is difficult. I thought to abstain because I like both The Fury and Venus but Kri told me I should vote. I don't like to choose between them! I like the strategies. Both teams work very hard but Madrox is defeated at the start and this makes it very difficult for his team to fulfill the strategy.

Namor wears only swimming trunks I am surprised Kri does not use Namor as the distraction as he parades his hunky body to distract his female opponents! I know it would distract me :)

I do not like to vote against you Kri because I like you a lot and your strategy is very good but it's so long! I think you spend too much time preparing to attack and this gives your dangerous opponents too much time to beat you. I'm sorry Kri but you did say that I should vote.

Dan

[The Fury]

I think Siddon/venuscameback take this one because they seem to take out Madrox just as Rogues is absorbing his powers, and because they attack an un-defended Mentallo.

They don't do anything. You seem to think that Madrox can be taken out by Firestar from 100 yards away just like that. Rogue only has to absorb a bit of him or lay her fingers on him for a short time to absorb his powers.

Its instant. From then I have 40 Rogues. S&V never take out 40 Rogue or even account for them either. If their opening attack fails (which happens a bit too quicly in my view) then they have no back up to account for it. Mdraox maybe be taken out, but that doesn't mean Rogue didn't absorb some of him first.

[The Fury]

Finally, though Toad's mission commands respect, travelling 100 yards would take several seconds at least, especially if he's going for stealth, by which point most of Venus and Siddon's strategy would be mostly completed, or at least well in. And there's a good chance tht Firestar, flying and gunning for the opposing side, would see Toad and fry him before he even gets to start his mission.

S&V's strategy is quick but fails on many accounts. Namor has fought both Human Torches a lot but he never goes down that easy...ever. And Slene can control fire but cannot create it (as said by her OHOTMU Master Ed.), so here Selene is producing fire from nothing. So that attack completely fails.

It will also take time for Firestar and Whirlwind to travel the distance and attack.

Rogue's shield (Sunfires one) protects her from the socalled blinding flash it it affect my team. No matter what, in this case S&V will have to account for 40 Rogues....which they never do.

Also, please do not make assumption about stuff that is no writen, Firestar is not said to take out Taod an therefore does not. Else I could make the sssumption that Mentallo see's Whirlwind comming for him and switches targeta nd fries his mins and so Mentallo is fine.

[The Fury]

EDIT: FRigging CBR..... :mad:

[Jack Flash]

It was really close, and really hinges on wether or not you believe that Rogue is capable of Furious's exploits or not. If you think she is, then he wins. If not, then he loses. Thanks to both teams for an entertaining final round. Two good strategies.

[Mitsaso]

I do believe Rogue can pull all that stuff, which is why I voted for Fury's merry band of mutants.

[The Lucky One]

Okay, I've read them both and decided. Ian came up with some really, really creative ideas, notably using the Collective Man as a food source for Selene... at first I questioned whether they would offer themselves up like that, but then I remembered there'd probably be hypnotic/telepathic prompting at work. And it's true what they brought up, that Madrox has been having personality issues lately, so not all of his dupes would be willing to play ball, as it were.

HOWEVER... two things made my decision for me. While Ian had clever ideas, Fury's were truly inspired- the use of Madrox to duplicate psi-proof helmets shows exactly the kind of innovation that wins matches, a great use of his powers. And perhaps more importantly, I just don't see Ian's initial attack on Madrox working well enough to stop the inevitable Rogue/Madrox combo. The attack needed to be instant and brutal, something that would either kill Madrox immediately or keep he and Rogue away from each other. It wasn't- Firestar's no killer, so not only does she have the slight time delay of flying into the air, THEN firing, she also has the extra few seconds needed to blast Madrox with a continuous beam of microwaves that will knock him out, rather then the far more expedient manner of simply flash-frying him. That takes time, and I'm just not seeing anything that keeps Rogue from getting to him and absorbing him. (Beyond which, I don't think she'd really hesitate to absorb him while he was unconscious, it's not like it's likely to kill him or anything.) Granted, as argued, there inevitably will be a few rogue Rogues... between Jamie's mental issues and Rogue's, it's a psychiatrist's dream. But even if there are 2 or 3 evil/unpredictable ones and a dozen pacifists, there's still enough fighters and good guys left to quell a rebellion and put down Hellfire and Brimstone. Mad props to Ian for a genuinely good strategy, and please don't be offended... but in this case, I gotta give it to The Fury.

-D

[mattbib]

About 7 1/2 hours left to vote.

[venuscameback]

Thanks for the detailed analysis, Drew, you make some interesting points.

please don't be offended... but in this case, I gotta give it to The Fury.

Why would I be offended?

The only thing I'd really like to come back on is this:

Firestar's no killer, so not only does she have the slight time delay of flying into the air, THEN firing, she also has the extra few seconds needed to blast Madrox with a continuous beam of microwaves that will knock him out, rather then the far more expedient manner of simply flash-frying him. That takes time

Firestar's been around the block long enough to know well how intense her blast needs to be to knock someone of regular human durability and health out rather than kill them - we're not talking about some new kid on the block here

venus

[venuscameback]

Also, please do not make assumption about stuff that is no writen, Firestar is not said to take out Taod an therefore does not. Else I could make the sssumption that Mentallo see's Whirlwind comming for him and switches targeta nd fries his mins and so Mentallo is fine.

While the Whirlwind/Mentallo thing doesn't make sense in the context of the strategies - with Emma on defence ready to counter any attack on our aside that Mentallo makes - you make a good point, Kri. We're not meant to make assumptions of the Toad-Firestar variety. I've always thought that an odd rule but it is the rule that voters should vote based on strategy alone, not what they think the characters would do in the situations they find themselves in

venus

[venuscameback]

It was really close, and really hinges on wether or not you believe that Rogue is capable of Furious's exploits or not. If you think she is, then he wins. If not, then he loses. Thanks to both teams for an entertaining final round. Two good strategies.

I appreciate where you're coming from, Jack, but I think there's another key moment where the match can turn. I outlined it earlier but it may have been overlooked in the whole Madrox-Firestar discussion, or maybe folk read it and factored it in witohut commenting.

The only attacks on Skids come from Mentallo and Toad. Emma Frost and Skein are inside Skids' field, so unless the field falls those three characters are safe from harm.

If Whirlwind takes out Mentallo at the start & Selene's second action - to psi-bolt Toad - succeed then Kri has nothing left in his strategy to take care of Skids with. This is why we didn't overlook Toad as Kri predicted: with Kri's two mind-altering characters out the game early on Skids, Emma Frost & Skein are safe from attack for the rest of the match

venus

[The Fury]

If Whirlwind takes out Mentallo at the start & Selene's second action - to psi-bolt Toad - succeed then Kri has nothing left in his strategy to take care of Skids with. This is why we didn't overlook Toad as Kri predicted: with Kri's two mind-altering characters out the game early on Skids, Emma Frost & Skein are safe from attack for the rest of the match

venus
Selene's second attack is to take out Toad but she doesn't. First, Selene does not take out Namor that easy, fire weakness or not, he ain't going to go down that easy. He can avoid it and move away.

So, if Selene is still busy with Namor then that gives my team time to give Toad his psi-proof helmet. Selene can't take him out.

[venuscameback]

Congratulations, Kri, you put together a really strong strategy. You've had some of the strongest strategies in every round and really made the most of your characters; I'd like to echo Drew that duplicating Mentallo's helmet was a neat touch; and looking back Siddon and I made some mistakes and you merited the win. You deserve this mate and while I'd rather have won it's easier to lose to such a good opponent

So, champ, the takeaway's on you today?

venus

[twilight]

Great match guys.You both had awesome strategies.

I presume Fury is being sent home tonight? :D

[The Fury]

So, champ, the takeaway's on you today?

venus
Cheer and ....okay. Sure....

But ou had a godo strategy, even if it lacked iin substance and epicness. I would have thought you'd pull out something big for the final (Like you boasted you would) but that didn't occur.

But your simplity nearly pulled through for you, we were practically tied at the startof day 2.

Good match all the same though. :D

Great match guys.You both had awesome strategies.

I presume Fury is being sent home tonight? :D
Packing as I type.

[venuscameback]

But ou had a godo strategy, even if it lacked iin substance and epicness. I would have thought you'd pull out something big for the final (Like you boasted you would) but that didn't occur.

Boasted, Mr "No-one can beat 40 Rogues"? Of course faced with your Rogue-Madrox cockiness I'm going to tease back that I have a cunning plan to take care of your team - gotta keep you on your toes.

There were a variety of reasons for the lack of scale in our strategy, as you know, but they're irrelevant now. Yours was a more clever, innovative strategy than ours and the win was rightfully yours.

Packing as I type.

Yes. But please pack your own stuff next time. I'm not sure you have the figure for Rebecca's dresses

venus

[Neolucifer]

Congrats to the winner ! It was a beautiful match .

[The Fury]

Congrats to the winner ! It was a beautiful match .
'Twas indeed.

Such an Epic occasion as well.

[Nightcrawler]

Congrats Fury! I've been pretty sick the last few days, or I would have voted.

Well Fury, you definately deserved it.

[Jessica Drew]

Yeah, congratulations, Fury. Job very well done. I appreciated your grand plotting in writing your strategy. (For the first time) I didn't vote for you, but that doesn't mean that I didn't appreciate the epic nature of this strategy.

Great job, too, to siddon & venuscameback, for making it to the final game, which is itself quite an accomplishment.

[The Fury]

Congrats Fury! I've been pretty sick the last few days, or I would have voted.

Well Fury, you definately deserved it.
Cheer, Nightcrawler. :)

Yeah, congratulations, Fury. Job very well done. I appreciated your grand plotting in writing your strategy. (For the first time) I didn't vote for you, but that doesn't mean that I didn't appreciate the epic nature of this strategy.

Duely noted. :D

Cheers.