Advice? Strong female leads?

[Damo]

Was wondering if anyone could recommend me any recent good manga or anime with female leads that are stronger than the male leads. Lately any time someone recommends something to me the "strong" female leads end up being ridiculously weak compared the guys within the space of a volume or two (Bleach, Kenshin, Naruto... I'm looking at you). ;)

My list

Nausicaa
Slayers
R.O.D.
Bubblegum Crisis
Monster Collection
Noir
Magic Knight Rayearth
Twelve Kingdoms
Vampire Princess Miyu
Samurai Girl: Real Bout High School (manga only)
Battle Angel Alita
Basara
Shaolin Sisters
Negima
Ghost in the Shell
Aplleseed
Tank Police
Tuskikage Ran
Air Master
Grenadier
Witch Hunter Robin
Negima
Iria
Blood: The Last Vampire
Rose of Versailles
Revolutionary Girl Utena
Burst Angel
Sister Red
Miyazaki movies

[Dizzy D]

Was wondering if anyone could recommend me any recent good manga or anime with female leads that are stronger than the male leads (Ala' Nausicaa, Slayers, R.O.D., Bubblegum Crisis, Monster Collection, or Slayers). Lately any time someone recommends something to me the "strong" female leads end up being ridiculously weak compared the guys within the space of a volume or two (Bleach, Kenshin, Naruto... I'm looking at you). ;)

In defense of Naruto: once Sakura goes training with Tsunade, she is physically stronger than Naruto and has different techniques than he does, making her easily his equal.

[Deskad]

Saikano. Nuff said.

[Melbourne Mew Mew]

Just off the top of my head...

Magic Knight Rayearth (one of my all-time favourites)
Angelic Layer
Twelve Kingdoms
Vampire Princess Miyu
Mai-HiME
Samurai Girl: Real Bout High School

And in manga (released in English)...
Alice 19th
Battle Angel Alita
Basara
Shaolin Sisters

[Robin3]

In Negima!, Asuna, the female lead, is physically stronger than Negi, the male lead. Later it gets into battle types and it's revealed that she's sort of a warrior type who traditionally handles defense for mages, who have no defense of their own. She also is immune to many forms of magic attacks.

[The Xenos]

Battle Angel Alita

Amen. I finally got around to reading this series. It's amazing. Now I've turned into a bit of a cyberpunk junkie, so I'm rahter surprised it too this long to get hooked. I just finished volume 4 and am dying to pick up more at the local shop. A friend had the original copies and raved about them, but I never got around to reading them or seeing the anime.

Yes, Alita / Gally is quite an amazing strong female character. It's no wonder Cameron is interested in the series. Heck, I swear he had this in mind when making Dark Angel. And, duh, I just realized the similarity in title.

[Zun Liako]

Ghost in the Shell

[Kid Kamikaze10]

I have a question. Is there an anime with a female lead that is stronger than the male lead, that isn't overly "girl-power/men = stupid".

I'm not trying to be mean or anything, it just that everytime I see an anime with a female lead, all the men in the anime are made to look like total punks/losers. I mean, in some animes in which there is a male lead, there is a female lead that's at least near his level.

I just want to see some equality both gender-wise and race-wise in animes, even in female-oriented animes or overly male oriented animes (like Berserk and Fist of the North Star), that's all.

[Damo]

Saikano - I suppose. Main char always came off as very meek to me, but yes.

GiTS - Definitely. Heck, anything Shirow fits the bill.
MKR - Yep.
Angelic Layer - Just can't seem to get into this one, but thanks for the advice.
Twelve Kingdoms - Definitely.
Vampire Princess Miyu - Yep.
Mai-HiME - Yeah, but it's one I can't get into. And I've never cared for Sakura Taisen "a girl needs a guy to reach full strength" type stuff
Samurai Girl: Real Bout High School - Manga yes, anime no.

And in manga (released in English)...
Alice 19th - Interesting way of looking at it. I guess... mmm... no, actually I'd have to disagree with you there. I don't think Yu Watase can write a truly strong female lead that isn't dependent on men.
Battle Angel Alita - Obviously! ^_^
Basara - Yes.
Shaolin Sisters - Yes.

___________________

Anime/Manga with strong female leads and non-baka males?

I'd argue Slayers. Yes, Gourrey is the ultimate jellyfish head, but he's competent. And Zelgadis is a clever fellow.

Drake Anderson is more a supporting cast member than a lead, but I think R.O.D. is good for intelligent males despite very strong females.

Ghost in the Shell is good. I can only think of one example where a guy ended up looking like a complete putz, and that was for the sake of a very good joke (and to deal with a legitimate point).

Basara.

Non-spin off Tenchi and El Hazard both did a good job of balancing strong men and women. The main character in El Hazard, unlike Tenchi, never turned out to be remotely as physically strong as any of the women around him, but he was an excellent character nonetheless.

3X3 Eyes.

Card Captor Sakura.

Monster Collection, definitely.

--------------------------

Thanks to everyone that replied!

Um...

Got anything else? ^^() I've seen/read pretty much everything up there.

An anime with a strong female lead has to be pretty new or obscure (or just available in fansubs or scanlations) for me not to have seen it.

[MKTerra]

Mai-HiME - Yeah, but it's one I can't get into. And I've never cared for Sakura Taisen "a girl needs a guy to reach full strength" type stuffThat's a theme of Mai-Hime? I haven't seen any of it, but I heard that semen destroys the source of their power; Hence, lesbian themes. No joke. (er, I think...)

*checks*

Maybe that's just in Mai Otome (which is apparently an alternate universe).

[MKTerra]

Oh, and... Fate Stay Night? There's two computer games (AFAICT more like a click-and-read "visual novel" in terms of gameplay; sadly, no translations available except for the prologue), and a manga and anime in progress.

[Zun Liako]

Bleach, Kenshin, Naruto... I'm looking at you)

Gotta defend Bleach here too, they have a huge variety of weak and powerful of all the cast members (all 8 bazillion of them) Yourichi, Unohana(trust me on this one, it will be crazy), Soi Fong, Rukia(spoilerish? Not really) and crazy Vaizard girl whose name I have not committed to memory yet. All are quite capable fighters, I mean, yeah if you are comparing the first few volumes before the story starts up it lacks but it definetely picks up...plus comparing them to the main character never works as everyone will eventually lose that fight.

[Rod G]

Anime with strong/tough female leads?

Tuskikage Ran
Air Master
Grenadier

[MKTerra]

Oh, and Witch Hunter Robin, though it seems you'd probably know about that one already.

[SAMAS]

I have a question. Is there an anime with a female lead that is stronger than the male lead, that isn't overly "girl-power/men = stupid".

I'm not trying to be mean or anything, it just that everytime I see an anime with a female lead, all the men in the anime are made to look like total punks/losers. I mean, in some animes in which there is a male lead, there is a female lead that's at least near his level.

I just want to see some equality both gender-wise and race-wise in animes, even in female-oriented animes or overly male oriented animes (like Berserk and Fist of the North Star), that's all.

That's one of the cool things about Negima.

As strong/cool as many of the girls are, Negi is right up there among them for the most part. Sometimes a little higher, a little lower in other places, but it balances out.

[Ayo]

Saikano - I suppose. Main char always came off as very meek to me, but yes.



I've only read the first volume of the series, so let's just take my post as a general comment:

The character here is not only meek, she is WEAK.

A "strong" character isn't one who has tremendous physical strength or guns in their arms. Strength comes from a a firm sense of personal identity and self confidence (among other qualities). Or at least in this context.

A meek character can be a "strong" character, meaning a well-rounded character (depends on how well it is written), but in this context, when discussing a character's relative emotional and intellectual fortitude, The above paragraph applies.

[MKTerra]

Actually, it really seems to me like we've been talking about "strength" purely in the fighting sense up till now. I thought of asking whether the OP meant "strength of will" as well as "strength of arms," but since everyone seemed to be commenting with the latter in mind, I just decided to go with the flow.

[Damo]

Well I guess when I think of a "strong female lead" I think of both. I can think of any number of girls that have "inner strength", but it's a very rare thing in anime that "inner strength" is what saves the day (even in shoujo manga, something I'm a ig fan of, I'd say that the girl's inner strength is what solves the story's central dilemma about 1/3 of the time). For the most part, no matter how much you want to run out there and help, if people are throwing around mountain sized fireballs and all you've got is a trusty Akane-mallet, you're going to be sidelined.

There are wonderful exceptions. Miyazaki's women, for the most part, aren't particularly strong physically. But they still manage to steal the stage.

And thanks everyone for all the recommendations. So far Fate Stay Night and Negima! are the only ones I haven't already gotten (I took one look at Negima! and assumed it was a standard harem anime, and I've never heard of Fate Stay Night), but all the advice is much appreciated. I'll make sure to pick up Negima! and keep an eye out for Fate Stay Night. ^_~


At some point I'll get around to editing my first list to include a list of my own recommendations and everyone else's. This stuff should be written down somewhere. ^_^

[Inkthinker]

Nobody mentioned Appleseed? Deunan Knute was one of the earliest strong female characters I ever read.

[epicduelgirl]

I love Basara.. definately check out that one if you get a chance. Post Apocalyptic, Action/Drama/Romance... rolled into one brilliant manga...

Ghost in the Shell definately the Major kicks butt. And Appleseed...

Blade of the Immortal... Otonotachibana Makie (she comes in the 3rd paperback, Dreamsong) the best swordswoman in the manga... and Hyakurin just one tough woman.

Iria: Zeiram the Animation. bounty hunter. my role model..

and um.. sailor moon. lol...

[Arilou]

What kind of series are you looking for? (And animé or manga, btw.?) Are you looking for mainly "Superpowers" stuff, or does anything go? (IE: Is it just "power" or do you mean "strength of character"?)

Witch hunter: Robin is a good example for both. Excellent series, too.

Twelve Kingdoms is another.

EDIT: For "Inner strength" i quite like Tsukushi from Hana Yori Dango (It's a romance/shoujo series, so that's what you get, but she's an excelelnt character)

[Damo]

Something like Witch Hunter Robin, R.O.D., Twelve Kingdoms (damn them for never finishing that), Ghost in the Shell, Kazemakase Tsukikage Ran, Monster Collection, Slayers, etc. etc. etc.

[Arilou]

Seriously, I'm having the same problem myself :p The lack of strong female characters is my main problem with animé.

[Violently Apathetic]

I'd make the argument that Sailor Moon, within the context of the MANGA, rather than the anime, is a strong female character in terms of both abilities and strength of character. Her character kinda got screwed over in the anime though... Sakura, of Cardcaptor Sakura, is the same (though she fared much better in the anime incarnation than Usagi...) though I suppose those may be a little too juvenile and sugary...

Off the top of my head (I hope they haven't all been mentioned, I just scanned the responses) the women I can think of who are either physically strong, emotionally strong or (ideally) both are;

Saya of Blood: The Last Vampire
Lady Oscar Francois de Jarjeyes from Rose of Versailles
Utena of Revolutionary Girl Utena
Nina from Monster

...there are much less than I thought...

[Arilou]

Duh. How come I forgot Rose of the Versailles? BAD me.

:p

I'd question whether or not Nina is a "lead", but she fits as well I guess.

[Violently Apathetic]

You're probably right about Nina, I just wanted to plug Monster *shifty eyes*

[Arilou]

Monster is great, though I thought the last 10-20 episodes started to drag.

[Melbourne Mew Mew]

Seriously, I'm having the same problem myself :p The lack of strong female characters is my main problem with animé.

If that's true, then it goes at least double for American TV and movies, though...

[Arilou]

If that's true, then it goes at least double for American TV and movies, though...

True somewhat, but I don't watch much TV at all generally. (And I can at least come up with a few...) Japanese portrayal of women tends (IMHO) to be very stereotypical (not that western media aren't steretoypical, but IMHO it is *slightly* healthier stereotypes.... The japanese are way too into the entire housewife deal for me to be comfortable)

[jboncha]

I'm suprised that no one has mentioned Burst Angel yet.





J B

[OverMaster]

Give Saber Marionette a chance.The female characters are a lot physically stronger than the males,and although the girls do suffer from Harem Syndrome, they still have more dignity than many other harem females (Ranma, Hanaukyo, SisPri, even Tenchi to an extent, etc).

Also, can El Hazard original OVA count if we take Ifurita as the more-or-less lead female character?

[MKTerra]

I'm suprised that no one has mentioned Burst Angel yet.Does Burst Angel have any male leads?

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I think it´s safe to say that practically any girl in Urusei Yatsura could mop the floor with Ataru Moroboshi.

And my adored Boogiepop (checks avatar) is one of the toughest characters in her anime (Nagi Kirima nonwithstanding).

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Does Burst Angel have any male leads?

The girl´s mechanic (guy who does the mecha´s maintenance) is as manly as you can get in that show (although IIRC he´s not featured in more than 3 or 4 episodes.. very briefly... don´t blink or you´ll mis him... :p ).

[Damo]

El Hazard is one of my all time favorites. It's rather Makoto-centric, but I do think the gals qualify as strong leads.

And Battle Athletes, and Bubblegum (the original at least, I have mixed feelings about all the subsequent versions).

[Robotech Master]

Starship Operators. There are about 4 or 5 male characters on board the main ship, and they all play important roles, but most of the crew members of the Amaterasu are female, and the lead character, Shinon, is female as well. Its a giant buffet of strong female leads.

[jboncha]

Does Burst Angel have any male leads?

There is the kid who's their chef.





J B

[The Drunkard Kid]

No Revolutionary Girl Utena? Though, I guess she's only middling strong in anything but raw will-power and fate. Juri's pretty high up there, too, though I haven't read/seen enough to know how guys in general fare.

Ah! Megami-sama has almost only female leads having any notable power, but power is rarely a factor in the stories except as a device for causing hijinks, I guess.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

There is the kid who's their chef.


He´s more of a doormat than a lead..... :D

[Damo]

Updated original post with most of my own recommendations.

[Basara]

Also, can El Hazard original OVA count if we take Ifurita as the more-or-less lead female character?

Considering that the second half of the OVA is the saving of Ifurita's soul so that she and Mokoto can fall in love? Yeah, I'd have to say she's a lead.

Other good female leads:

Madoka Ayukawa in Kimagure Orange Road. Do not mess with Madoka the Pick! Kasaga was a little bit of a goof, but generally was a typical guy.

Kyoko Otanashi in Maison Ikkoku. She's strong enough to put up with the kooky characters of Maison Ikkoku. Ok, Godai starts off extremely goofy (and if you lived there, wouldn't you be?), but by the end of the series, he's actually matured to the point where Kyoko falls for him completely.

Misa Hayasi in Macross. Sure, she got a little weepy at times for her ex, but she was one top notch officer. Now here's a great story with a strong lady holding her own with a whole slew of strong men. Hell, she even stood up to Bodolza and co when they were prisoners. It almost got her crushed, but still it's high up on the guts chart.

[Gamma Wolf]

Trigun
Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust
Blue Gender

[Alex L]

I have a question. Is there an anime with a female lead that is stronger than the male lead, that isn't overly "girl-power/men = stupid".

I'm not trying to be mean or anything, it just that everytime I see an anime with a female lead, all the men in the anime are made to look like total punks/losers. I mean, in some animes in which there is a male lead, there is a female lead that's at least near his level.

I just want to see some equality both gender-wise and race-wise in animes, even in female-oriented animes or overly male oriented animes (like Berserk and Fist of the North Star), that's all.

That's the thing about shounen.

Remember, it is aimed at young boys, who would much rather read about a guy who can beat up the world than a girl who is the equal, physically or mentally, of the guy.

Oh, and off the top of my head:
Ranma
Angelic Layer
Jubei-chan

[Violently Apathetic]

Oh, and off the top of my head:
Ranma
Angelic Layer
Jubei-chan

Can I ask you what motivated you to say Ranma? Aside from Ranma himself there aren't any really strong female martial artists that I'm aware of and Ranma doesn't really count, IMHO. I suppose there's Rouge, but she's only a side character...all the other women are quite a bit weaker than the men.

[Alex L]

Can I ask you what motivated you to say Ranma? Aside from Ranma himself there aren't any really strong female martial artists that I'm aware of and Ranma doesn't really count, IMHO. I suppose there's Rouge, but she's only a side character...all the other women are quite a bit weaker than the men.

Akane never seems to have much trouble (maybe because Ranma-kun doesn't fight back).

Shampoo is definitely among the top MA's in Ranma's group.

[Violently Apathetic]

Ah, well I don't generally count Akane since her strength is mostly used as a gag, much like the Naru punch. Maybe that's unfair of me, but she seems to get kidnapped a lot and is a damsel in distress more often than not. Shampoo is likely the strongest of the main girls, but considering she's still weaker than Mousse, Ryoga, Ranma, Happosai, etc...

Though now that I think of it, both Cologne and Rouge are strong, in fact I think they're likely two of the strongest characters in the manga, so I suppose it evens out a little.

[Arilou]

Did anyone mention Robin, from Witch Hunter: Robin, yet?

She's clearly the most powerful character in the series. And, if a bit angsty, pretty strong mentally as well.

Also, she needs glasses to better put things on fire, that rocks :p

[Magneto_X]

Faye Valentine from Cowboy Bebop, Lina Inverse from Slayers, Misato Katsuragi from Eva, Evangeline A.K. McDowell from Negima!, Polly Esther from Samurai Pizza Cats, Wonder Woman/Hawkgirl/Black Canary/The Huntress from JL:U (if they count), Rally Vincent from Gunsmith Cats, Hawkeye from FullMetal Alchemist, Nami from One Piece, Sylia Stringray/Priss Amagiri from Bubblegum Crisis (Tokyo 2040).

[Arilou]

Oooh yeah.

Shadow Skill. Elle Ragu has some 1337-skillz.

[Shawn Fumo]

The mention of Boogiepop made me think of Lain. It seems to me that Lain really comes into her own eventually and that Alice is pretty strong within the context of the story..

Did I miss anyone saying Crest of the Stars of yet? Lots of strong female and male characters in that series.

Princess Nine has several very strong female characters. This is a great series btw and currently a steal if you get the thinkpack boxset! Even if you aren't into baseball, it is very much worth a shot.

BTW, this is kind of off-topic, but for those interested in gender topics, check out the SeeJane site:
http://www.seejane.org/

They recently did a study of the top 101 G-rated movies from 1990 to 2004 and found that 75% of all speaking characters are male. It is interesting because even looking at films where a female is the central character, most of the supporting cast will be male. Even in something like the Little Mermaid that has more female characters than many, I think if start counting up all the supporting characters (flounder, sebastian, king, cook, love interest, other people on land, eels, etc) you'll come out with way more males.

It is important to have strong female central characters, but in some ways this other aspect bothers me even more since it seems so insidious. It is like there's an unspoken unconcious that characters are just male as a default unless there's a reason otherwise. Like in the webcast Geena mentions one experience where there was a shot at a river in one film where just to have some stuff going on in the background, one of the production people set up some extras with remote-controlled boats. He put a bunch of boys at the controls with some girls behind them watching. It wasn't something done on purpose really.. but it just happens over and over..

Shawn

[Naraku]

Oh! My Goddess

[Nyssane]

Sailor Moon, obviously.

Weiss Kreuz's Schriendt team is pretty badass and definitely give the heroes a run for their money.

One Piece has a variety of powerful females, most notably Robin, Alvida, Hina, Miss Merrychristmas, Calipha, and Miss Doublefinger.

The manga Demon Diary has the female knight, Erutis, who is basically the only character in the series who uses physical combat. Although it's a comedy manga, she does get some fierce scenes.

[yeoman]

Give Saber Marionette a chance.The female characters are a lot physically stronger than the males,and although the girls do suffer from Harem Syndrome, they still have more dignity than many other harem females (Ranma, Hanaukyo, SisPri, even Tenchi to an extent, etc).

Also, can El Hazard original OVA count if we take Ifurita as the more-or-less lead female character?

Well, it does have Nanami Jinnai, little miss "drop me into a desert on another planet with nothing but the clothes on my back, and watch me own a small business within a few months."

[yeoman]

No Revolutionary Girl Utena? Though, I guess she's only middling strong in anything but raw will-power and fate. Juri's pretty high up there, too, though I haven't read/seen enough to know how guys in general fare.

Depends on how we're talking about strong. Cause, Utena isn't just stong in willpower, she's one of the singles most strong willed and noble fictional characters I've ever seen. I've compared her to Optimus friggin' Prime on that level before.

While she stumbles a lot during the series, it takes a lot to do what she does in the final episode.

Ah! Megami-sama has almost only female leads having any notable power, but power is rarely a factor in the stories except as a device for causing hijinks, I guess.

There's a few arcs where they cut lose. Notably after Hild shows up and the Terrible Master arc.

[Gaz]

I'd make the argument that Sailor Moon, within the context of the MANGA, rather than the anime, is a strong female character in terms of both abilities and strength of character. Her character kinda got screwed over in the anime though... Sakura, of Cardcaptor Sakura, is the same (though she fared much better in the anime incarnation than Usagi...) though I suppose those may be a little too juvenile and sugary...

Usagi doesn't come off that badly in the anime either. Granted, there is a good number of times that Tuxedo Kamen (there's your comparable male, btw) saves her, but the climax of the season is always her doing something ridiculously powerful as a result of her determination, hope and compassion. (Killing Beryl, her and Chibiusa beating the R villain whose name escapes me, saving Hotaru in S as well as kicking Neptune and Uranus' butts)

You're probably right about the sugar though. I'm fully aware that I have a tendency to like sentimental romantic stuff over hard action. (Although, both manga and anime of SM do get reasonably dark towards the end of each arc...)

[Gaz]

Faye Valentine from Cowboy Bebop,
Nope. Faye's good, but she's almost always second fiddle to Spike. Don't get me wrong, I think she's the deeper character, because of the apparant conflict between who she is and who she was and how she got to the former.

[Violently Apathetic]

Usagi doesn't come off that badly in the anime either. Granted, there is a good number of times that Tuxedo Kamen (there's your comparable male, btw) saves her, but the climax of the season is always her doing something ridiculously powerful as a result of her determination, hope and compassion. (Killing Beryl, her and Chibiusa beating the R villain whose name escapes me, saving Hotaru in S as well as kicking Neptune and Uranus' butts)

You're probably right about the sugar though. I'm fully aware that I have a tendency to like sentimental romantic stuff over hard action. (Although, both manga and anime of SM do get reasonably dark towards the end of each arc...)

You're right, I can't help but notice in the end of each series Usagi is either alone or with the other senshi, Mamoru either being brainwashed, babysitting or dead by that point. I suppose I have trouble counting her sometimes simply because she has a habit of growing, then regressing. She cries when she's lone, she finds inner strength and then by the next conflict she's crying again and has to be reminded of her inner strength. I do love Usagi though, she's a warm and fun character and especially in Star she really comes of her own.

Though I generally prefer the anime to the manga (I think the secondary characters are fleshed out better and I think it's just more fun) I think Mamoru and Usagi's relationship is presented in a much more balanced way. I've mentioned before that I don't like Mamoru, well that's only for the anime, in the manga I feel he comes off as a much more noble and romantic individual who seems to have a healthy respect for Usagi, while in the anime he always seemed like he was babysitting her.

I like sugary fluff a lot, actually. Nothing cheers me up like CCS or Sailor Moon, I actually tend to try to balance those types of anime with the darker types because if an anime is too dark and/or serious I tend to shy away.

More strong female leads...um....Miyazaki films always have strong heroines...yeah, I'm having a brainfart right now..

[Gaz]

You're right, I can't help but notice in the end of each series Usagi is either alone or with the other senshi, Mamoru either being brainwashed, babysitting or dead by that point. I suppose I have trouble counting her sometimes simply because she has a habit of growing, then regressing. She cries when she's lone, she finds inner strength and then by the next conflict she's crying again and has to be reminded of her inner strength. I do love Usagi though, she's a warm and fun character and especially in Star she really comes of her own.

Though I generally prefer the anime to the manga (I think the secondary characters are fleshed out better and I think it's just more fun) I think Mamoru and Usagi's relationship is presented in a much more balanced way. I've mentioned before that I don't like Mamoru, well that's only for the anime, in the manga I feel he comes off as a much more noble and romantic individual who seems to have a healthy respect for Usagi, while in the anime he always seemed like he was babysitting her.
Not always.
The S finale where Usagi is VERY specific in telling him and the Inners not to help her fight Haruka and Michiru, and he swoops in to STOP them stepping in because he understands why she asked them not to.

And I don't think it's so much regressing as a different side of her. The comedy crying and whining is just her hanging out with her friends and boyfriend, or being startled by the Monster of teh Week.
When everything falls apart, however, she's stronger than any of them, even if that means being strong enough to believe that there's still hope when none seems possible.

(I'm sort of on a binge right now, as I'm plowing through the anime- up to the beginning of SuperS now- and waiting on the manga. Not sure about what to do about Stars though, as the only version I can find is VKLL and their translations are shaky at best...)

[Violently Apathetic]

Not always.
The S finale where Usagi is VERY specific in telling him and the Inners not to help her fight Haruka and Michiru, and he swoops in to STOP them stepping in because he understands why she asked them not to....)

I keep forgetting that S didn't end with the fight against Pharaoh 90 and had that little aside with the Outers. I loved that episode, simply because while I liked the Outer Senshi, especially Uranus, I thought they needed a smack. Unfortunately that leads to another case of regression in characterization because (Spoilers for aspects, but not plot details, of Sailor Star) In Sailor Star the Outers seemed to have lost faith in Usagi's abilities as a judge of character and a competent leader AGAIN as they try get between Usagi and her relationship with the Sailor Starlights

Though I stand by the fact that Mamoru generally isn't there for the boss fights. Brainwashed/Dead in the original series, memory lost in the first half of R, he was there against the Doom Phantom, keeping ChibiUsa alive in S, sick in Super S and dead in Star...and in the movies he's usually not there either...except the S movie, I believe.
And I don't think it's so much regressing as a different side of her. The comedy crying and whining is just her hanging out with her friends and boyfriend, or being startled by the Monster of teh Week.
When everything falls apart, however, she's stronger than any of them, even if that means being strong enough to believe that there's still hope when none seems possible.

That's true enough, and I suppose there are times where she feels lost I can excuse her for given the situation (such as when the Senshi are kidnaped by Rubeus or in Star when she deals with the fact Mamoru isn't there with her) and she never quite falls apart the way she did in the first season when the others fell fighting those...ugh, I forget their names, in the first season.

I wish I could help you with Star, but all I have is VHS tapes I got years ago from a store in my city's Asian distract. Good subtitles, but constant threat the VCR is going to eat them.

Happy Birthday, btw.

[Rod G]

Was wondering if anyone could recommend me any recent good manga or anime with female leads that are stronger than the male leads. Lately any time someone recommends something to me the "strong" female leads end up being ridiculously weak compared the guys within the space of a volume or two (Bleach, Kenshin, Naruto... I'm looking at you). ;)

My list

Nausicaa
Slayers
R.O.D.
Bubblegum Crisis
Monster Collection
Noir
Magic Knight Rayearth
Twelve Kingdoms
Vampire Princess Miyu
Samurai Girl: Real Bout High School (manga only)
Battle Angel Alita
Basara
Shaolin Sisters
Negima
Ghost in the Shell
Aplleseed
Tank Police
Tuskikage Ran
Air Master
Grenadier
Witch Hunter Robin
Negima
Iria
Blood: The Last Vampire
Rose of Versailles
Revolutionary Girl Utena
Burst Angel
Sister Red
Miyazaki movies


Your list is very impressive,Damo.We seem to share similar tastes,for I have some of these titles in my collection.(Matter of fact,I suggested three of those.)

[Sharkerbob]

X/1999

Okay, so the entire cast is outclassed in raw power by the two Kamui's, but that's just because of their significance in the prophecy. The girls are mostly right up their with the rest of the boys. Relationships are important, as this is a CLAMP story, but the women don't need men in their lives to be strong, even if the men in their lives do help inspire them.

[The Drunkard Kid]

Gunsmith Cats in its entirety is pretty good. Despite all the fanservice, they manage to make the girls all strong protagonists without ever relegating the few male characters to the sidelines. While there's no one as skilled as Rally with guns, I don't think anyone's gonna argue that Grey was anything less than a real threat to her (maybe not quite so much as Goldie, but he was a lot less psycho than her, and that's saying something), or that Bean and Ken aren't just as competant as her and Minnie May, in their own ways.

[Rod G]

BTW,Damo,what you said about shows like Kenshin,Bleach,et al,I tend to agree.

[Len Ikari145]

Why hasn't anyone mention Lucy from Elfen Lied?

[Kevinroc]

Nobody seems to have mentioned Kiddy Grade yet. Until I just did.

For a less fan-service strong female lead, go check out Galaxy Angel. It's a comedic series so a lot of it is tongue in cheek but the female characters are "strong" in a certain sense.

[Damo]

Kiddy Grade is... um... hm. They're strong and yet... *Trails off.* Yeah......

[the gypsy Naemah]

Not sure if this has already been said but... Ceres: Celestial Legend... and Serial Experiments Lain. My two picks...

-Jessica

[Ghost]

That's a theme of Mai-Hime? I haven't seen any of it, but I heard that semen destroys the source of their power; Hence, lesbian themes. No joke. (er, I think...)

*checks*

Maybe that's just in Mai Otome (which is apparently an alternate universe).

Yep. In Mai Hime, the girls are just dependent on whoever they happen to love the most to maintain their power. Doesn't have to be a man, could be anyone.

I have yet to finish Mai Otome. Story-line wise, though, I think Mai Hime is superior, even if it did angst up allot halfway through. Amazing ending.

[NightMage]

Was wondering if anyone could recommend me any recent good manga or anime with female leads that are stronger than the male leads. Lately any time someone recommends something to me the "strong" female leads end up being ridiculously weak compared the guys within the space of a volume or two (Bleach, Kenshin, Naruto... I'm looking at you). ;)

My list

Nausicaa
Slayers
R.O.D.
Bubblegum Crisis
Monster Collection
Noir
Magic Knight Rayearth
Twelve Kingdoms
Vampire Princess Miyu
Samurai Girl: Real Bout High School (manga only)
Battle Angel Alita
Basara
Shaolin Sisters
Negima
Ghost in the Shell
Aplleseed
Tank Police
Tuskikage Ran
Air Master
Grenadier
Witch Hunter Robin
Negima
Iria
Blood: The Last Vampire
Rose of Versailles
Revolutionary Girl Utena
Burst Angel
Sister Red
Miyazaki movies

Slayers is up there as far as strong female leads. R.O.D. (you're talking the movie, the series or both?) Witch Hunter Robin is very good.

[NightMage]

Usagi doesn't come off that badly in the anime either. Granted, there is a good number of times that Tuxedo Kamen (there's your comparable male, btw) saves her, but the climax of the season is always her doing something ridiculously powerful as a result of her determination, hope and compassion. (Killing Beryl, her and Chibiusa beating the R villain whose name escapes me, saving Hotaru in S as well as kicking Neptune and Uranus' butts)

You're probably right about the sugar though. I'm fully aware that I have a tendency to like sentimental romantic stuff over hard action. (Although, both manga and anime of SM do get reasonably dark towards the end of each arc...)

By the end of the first series Sailor Moon shows her steel. Lina from Slayers IMHO is perhaps the strongest female character just because she can be so over the top sometimes.

[Arilou]

Yep. In Mai Hime, the girls are just dependent on whoever they happen to love the most to maintain their power. Doesn't have to be a man, could be anyone.

I have yet to finish Mai Otome. Story-line wise, though, I think Mai Hime is superior, even if it did angst up allot halfway through. Amazing ending.
Mai Hime had a *terrible* ending. It was a fucking LITERAL Deus Ex Machina. Made me want to puke.

[luxshine]

I don't think they count, as they're not leads, but practically all of the female characters in Full Metal Alchemist are incredibly strong, either in the inner strength category and in the raw ability category. While it's a shonen manga, and the main characters are male, it's one of the very few mangas I can list where the girls are equal to the guys.

(Only in the manga, though. In the anime they all came out a bit... lessened)

[Kage Kisaragi]

Unlike Western Comics/Cartoons, in Anime/Manga Female leads are not rare, infact its like a whole genre dedicated to girl appealing anime/manga (shoujo) where in 99.9% of it the main character or strong lead is female.

[ddqfpluskick]

Um......

Air Master is a good one. A bit humorous at times, but a lot of action too. Pluse strong female leads.

Starship Operators has some good female leads. Although its more team oriented.

[Ghost]

Mai Hime had a *terrible* ending. It was a fucking LITERAL Deus Ex Machina. Made me want to puke.

Meh. Each to his own, I guess. But at least they didn't go for half-measures with the DEM. Anyway, it sure beats the ending they were heading for before that.

And I have to say, that when Tate showed up with Miyu's sword, I damn near stood up and cheered. And I couldn't stop grinning during the entire "Hime Ranger" scene.

I guess I just like a good Deus Ex Machina now and then. ;)

[Rod G]

Has Queen Emeraldas been mentioned?

[chilled monkey]

Usagi doesn't come off that badly in the anime either. Granted, there is a good number of times that Tuxedo Kamen (there's your comparable male, btw) saves her, but the climax of the season is always her doing something ridiculously powerful as a result of her determination, hope and compassion. (Killing Beryl, her and Chibiusa beating the R villain whose name escapes me, saving Hotaru in S as well as kicking Neptune and Uranus' butts)


She did not ''kick Neptune and Uranus' butts." She barely managed to avoid an attack, causing them to collide. Neither was any worse for wear and were perfectly capable of continuing the fight. They CHOSE to concede defeat because they felt she had proved herself.

[Len Ikari145]

She did not ''kick Neptune and Uranus' butts." She barely managed to avoid an attack, causing them to collide. Neither was any worse for wear and were perfectly capable of continuing the fight. They CHOSE to concede defeat because they felt she had proved herself.

So was Usagi apparently. She didn't have much difficulty avoiding their attacks once the battle got serious(she didn't even klutz out like she normally would in that kind of fight). And since Usagi wasn't even trying to attack them, that says alot of what she could've done if she was serious.

[Rod G]

Damo,you mght want to include Shana from Shakugan no Shana and Honoka from the Third.

[Len Ikari145]

Has anyone mentioned the cast of Bubblegum Crisis Tokyo 2040 yet? Those girls kick ass!

[Melbourne Mew Mew]

Has anyone mentioned the cast of Bubblegum Crisis Tokyo 2040 yet? Those girls kick ass!

Original BGC >>>>>>>>> BGC 2040

[Len Ikari145]

Original BGC >>>>>>>>> BGC 2040

Not from what I've heard. As I understand it, The original was pretty bad actually. But to each his own.

[EevilJ]

Nobody mentioned Appleseed? Deunan Knute was one of the earliest strong female characters I ever read.
I put the caveat that only the manga was worth reading. The 2004 adaptation wasn't even a character, it was a collection of shapes and colors thrown on the screen. Gods, what a monumentally terrible waste of ink and processor time that was.

Gunsmith Cats in its entirety is pretty good. Despite all the fanservice, they manage to make the girls all strong
I seem to recall Rally being quite a butt-kicker in the original Riding Bean video.

Has anyone mentioned the cast of Bubblegum Crisis Tokyo 2040 yet? Those girls kick ass!
I'd like to pick up the entire BCT collection someday. I've heard nothing but good things about it.

*************

[SSJVegeta]

Rkugo Tennyo
Magikano
Saint October
Sakura Wars
3x3 Eyes
Excel Saga
Tiny Snow Fairy Sugar
Scrapped Princess
Someday's Dreamers
Card Captor Sakura
Real Bout High School
Burnup W
Burnup Xcess
Burnup Scramble
Galaxy Angels, A, Z, X (Not sure if this one exists), II
Azumanga Daioh
Zero no Tsukaima
Mai-Hime and Otome
Fruits Basket
Kasimasi Girl Meets Girl
Bottle Fairies
Tristia of The Deep Blue Sea
Utakata
Suzuka
Plastic Little
Arjuna
Angelic Layer
Pretear
Cardcaptors Sakura
Madlax
Shakugan no Shana
Inukami
Legend of Himiko
Devil Hunter Yohko
Steel Angel Kurumi
Jigoku no Shoujo 1st and 2nd season
Full Moon Sagashite
Noir
Digi Charat Nyo
Yumeria
SaiKano
Grenadier
Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha
Tenshi na Konamaiki
Ah My Goddess 1st and 2nd season
Green Green
Iriya no Sora, UFO no Natsu
Hanbun no Tsuki ga Noboru Sora
Shakugan no Shana
Black Lagoon
Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu
Bubblegum Crisis
Bakuretsu Tenshi
Kimagure Orange Road
Gakuen Utopia Manabi Straight
Mamoru Kun ni Megami no Shukufuku wo
Kyoushirou to Towa no Sora
Venus Versus Virus
Strawberry Panic
Hidamari Sketch
Ichigo Marshmallow
Sumomomo Momomo ~ Chijou Saikyo no Yome

[Pinball]

Guess i'll add Birdy the Mighty to the list.

[chilled monkey]

she could've done if she was serious.

You are a liar. Saying something could have happened, does not mean it did happen.

[Len Ikari145]

Damned double-post.

[Len Ikari145]

You are a liar. Saying something could have happened, does not mean it did happen.

Excuse me, but where the hell did I say that it *did* happen that way? I stated my personal conjecture by noting the fact she seemed pretty comfortable with just dodging their attacks(physical and magical) without any sign of her trademark clumsiness nor showing fatigue speaks volumes of what she could've done (supposition) if she took the offensive. We don't know what the outcome would've been if she actually fought back, but to me it looked like she could've dished out as much she could take. Hell, we've seen her take the full brunt of Neptune and Uranus' combined shots in her default form when she used her body to shield Mistress Nine(on top of taking a full-on attack from Pharaoh 90), so my remarks about her endurance have merit. And we've seen what her Moon Spiral Heart attack(massive AOE effect) can do so we know she could dish out major damage had she decided to retaliate.

Anyway, like I said, it's my own supposition and observation of that fight, not stating it as actual fact. So, there's no need to call me a liar for stating an *opinion*. It's not like I said "she totally owned them in that fight!". THAT would construe as a lie since she never fought back once in the fight and was on the defensive (mainly because she didn't want to fight them).