Guess Hillary's going to have a little problem on the gaming front...

[Copper]

I found this (http://www.theesa.com/archives/2006/01/new_study_shows.php) rather interesting especially in light of the brouhaha surrounding "games that are inappropriate for children." A nearly two to one margin (60% vs. 36%) parents agree that it is not the role of government to regulate game sales in an attempt to protect kids from exposure to violent and/or sexual video game content.

Food for thought, huh?

[BlairH]

Darn straight it isn't the role of Government. You know how screwed up this country is? If I were to sell a copy of Shadow the Hedgehog to somebody under the age of 12 (STH is rated 12+ PEGI over here) I could theoretically face a 7 grand fine and 6 months bed and board courtesy of Her Majesty's Prison Service.

I have to ask for ID for practically every "adult" game.

"Any ID pal? WHERE ARE YOUR PAPERS CITIZEN?"
"Ja! Ich habe mein Hitlerjungendkarte mein fuhrer!"

[Cyke]

So much for that vaunted Soccer Mom vote.

[The Drunkard Kid]

Darn straight it isn't the role of Government. You know how screwed up this country is? If I were to sell a copy of Shadow the Hedgehog to somebody under the age of 12 (STH is rated 12+ PEGI over here) I could theoretically face a 7 grand fine and 6 months bed and board courtesy of Her Majesty's Prison Service.

I have to ask for ID for practically every "adult" game.

"Any ID pal? WHERE ARE YOUR PAPERS CITIZEN?"
"Ja! Ich habe mein Hitlerjungendkarte mein fuhrer!"How much time would you get if somebody under the age of 12 sees your avatar?

Whatever it was, it'd be worth it. *thumbs up*

[Phrozen]

I found this (http://www.theesa.com/archives/2006/01/new_study_shows.php) rather interesting especially in light of the brouhaha surrounding "games that are inappropriate for children." A nearly two to one margin (60% vs. 36%) parents agree that it is not the role of government to regulate game sales in an attempt to protect kids from exposure to violent and/or sexual video game content.

Food for thought, huh?

I think that is a good sign. Now, if the American public decided that they wanted to take responsibility for certain other things we would be set.

[BlairH]

How much time would you get if somebody under the age of 12 sees your avatar?

Whatever it was, it'd be worth it. *thumbs up*

The same amount of time I'd get for selling ass for heroin...around a year.

[Sanagi]

Good to see that there are people out there who can recognize this whole issue as the load of crap it is.

[thehod]

Darn straight it isn't the role of Government. You know how screwed up this country is? If I were to sell a copy of Shadow the Hedgehog to somebody under the age of 12 (STH is rated 12+ PEGI over here) I could theoretically face a 7 grand fine and 6 months bed and board courtesy of Her Majesty's Prison Service.

I have to ask for ID for practically every "adult" game.

"Any ID pal? WHERE ARE YOUR PAPERS CITIZEN?"
"Ja! Ich habe mein Hitlerjungendkarte mein fuhrer!"

But you'd agree that flogging 18 rated games to kids of 12 isn't the right thing to do, right?

We ask people for proof of age in other industries, alcohol and tobacco for instance, why not here?

[GremlinClr]

But you'd agree that flogging 18 rated games to kids of 12 isn't the right thing to do, right?

We ask people for proof of age in other industries, alcohol and tobacco for instance, why not here?

I think it should be regulated just like adult movies. They check for ID and shoo away the kiddies. But if one slips through and sees an R rated movie I don't think anyone is facing jail time for gods sake. It's like a fine or something.

Politicians saw this as a hot button issue and jumped on the bandwagon because they thought there was huge public support. A few more studies like this and maybe they'll back off a little.

We all know that for the average politician no public outcry means no extra votes come election day so they suddenly stop caring.

[Copper]

I think the gaming industry's becoming more like the movie industry anyways, and I do think that rating labels are a good idea. The blunder Hillary made is making the ridiculous assumption that other parents are as clueless about video games as she is. (Tipper Gore pulled this same crap in the 80s with music and children's television, along with Peggy Charren. Those two were largely the reason that most kids shows like GI Joe and others had those PSAs at the end.) The difference is, despite what certain politicians think, is that parents now are more informed and as the study shows have actually grown up with video games. This leads me to wonder whether that grandmother who sued Rockstar over GTA is either illiterate or a ploy to drum up support for this latest crusade.

[BlairH]

But you'd agree that flogging 18 rated games to kids of 12 isn't the right thing to do, right?

What about selling games rated 12 to kids aged 11? It is still a VRA (Video Recording Act) violation, and commands hefty jail time.

[thehod]

What about selling games rated 12 to kids aged 11? It is still a VRA (Video Recording Act) violation, and commands hefty jail time.

Yes, it has to be said that that is a little daft (as is, as far as I'm concerned, selling 18 rating games to 17 year olds)

Unfortunatly, the line has to be drawn somewhere, and if that's what the law says, that's what has to happen.

Quite why Sonic is rated a 12 is beyond me, but thems the rules, and if you're going to treat everyone fairly, you should be asking a 9 year old for proof of age if he wants to buy a 12 rated game in the same way you should be asking a 15 year old proof of age if he wants to buy an 18 rated game.

[BlairH]

Yes, it has to be said that that is a little daft (as is, as far as I'm concerned, selling 18 rating games to 17 year olds)

Unfortunatly, the line has to be drawn somewhere, and if that's what the law says, that's what has to happen.

Quite why Sonic is rated a 12 is beyond me, but thems the rules, and if you're going to treat everyone fairly, you should be asking a 9 year old for proof of age if he wants to buy a 12 rated game in the same way you should be asking a 15 year old proof of age if he wants to buy an 18 rated game.

But then the kid can't provide ID, so he has to go and get his Mom, who will spend the next 15 mins shouting at me for not selling him the game.

"It's the law" I tell her, whilst showing her a pamphlet explaining the BBFC video game rating system. She doesn't care, she claims it's "only a game" and that I should sell the son the game. I reply "Would you allow me to sell your kid a porno?" She then threatens to report me to trading standard for "being a shit".

[Zeta]

(Tipper Gore pulled this same crap in the 80s with music and children's television, along with Peggy Charren. Those two were largely the reason that most kids shows like GI Joe and others had those PSAs at the end.)

Are we gonna get Halo 3 and Resident Evil 5 with a "More You Know" segment at the end as an unlockable easter egg?

Master Chief: "Remember Timmy, when someone you know touches your special place, you'd better call the police and take him out with a homing rocket."

[titanfan]

The problem is that, while people may disagree with Hillary on this issue--it really isn't a hot button issue to most voters. They wont not vote for Hillary because she wants tougher gaming regulations for kids.

[Copper]

Oh I wasn't looking at it from a voting perspective. I just think it's a really inane issue--the ESRB ratings are right there on the box so it's not as if people don't know what they're getting. This whole "protect the children" garbage strikes me as opportunistic and it takes focus away from real issues.

[Black Atom]

Unless I'm mistaken, or things have changed since I've worked in a game shop, games rated "T" (13-up) are not restricted to kids under 13. Similarly, a 10-year-old can buy a ticket to a PG-13 movie, as that rating is only a "suggested" one. Obviously, you can't card a 12 y/o, and kids much younger than that aren't out buying games by themselves anyhow.

[Cyke]

The problem is that, while people may disagree with Hillary on this issue--it really isn't a hot button issue to most voters. They wont not vote for Hillary because she wants tougher gaming regulations for kids.

Another thing is that, as time goes on, Congressmen are getting younger and younger, phasing out the old guard. And these young congressmen usually come from districts filled with young people in their 20s, 30s, and 40s. Pretty much, the elected officials and their constituents play more and more video games. Pretty much, any action taken to toughen or ban violent video games could be stopped by this new contingent.

Sometimes, politics do work :)

[BlairH]

Unless I'm mistaken, or things have changed since I've worked in a game shop, games rated "T" (13-up) are not restricted to kids under 13. Similarly, a 10-year-old can buy a ticket to a PG-13 movie, as that rating is only a "suggested" one. Obviously, you can't card a 12 y/o, and kids much younger than that aren't out buying games by themselves anyhow.

In the UK it's much more draconian. We have the VRA (Video Recordings Act) and the BBFC Gestaponazis.

[thehod]

But then the kid can't provide ID, so he has to go and get his Mom, who will spend the next 15 mins shouting at me for not selling him the game.

"It's the law" I tell her, whilst showing her a pamphlet explaining the BBFC video game rating system. She doesn't care, she claims it's "only a game" and that I should sell the son the game. I reply "Would you allow me to sell your kid a porno?" She then threatens to report me to trading standard for "being a shit".

That's her bloody problem, not yours.

She can report you to whoever she feels like, it'd do no good as you are doing the right thing, whereas she is not. She doesn't like it? Tough.

You're on the front line here Blair. Games get enough unwarrented s*** without game stores selling adult games to minors, regardless of how much the parents bitch and moan about it. Granted, some of the ratings on certain games maybe a little exessive, but that's not for you to judge whilst you're selling this stuff. Follow the guidelines and explain to these uneducated parents that it doesn't matter how much they scream at you, you are not going to sell little nine year old johnny "Death Gore 3", as its against the law.

[The Drunkard Kid]

What would British Law say about selling a game outside a kid's age group to the kid's parents, if you're certain that they're getting it for the kid? I know it says that it's only a suggested rating, but then, people can be very stupid.

And by "can be," I mean, "are."

[BlairH]

What would British Law say about selling a game outside a kid's age group to the kid's parents, if you're certain that they're getting it for the kid? I know it says that it's only a suggested rating, but then, people can be very stupid.

And by "can be," I mean, "are."

UK law is very inconsistent when it comes to this sort of thing. If the game is sold to a parent then technically I am not doing anything wrong under statutory law. However, if somebody lodges a complaint against me for selling the game to the parent, who will then, in turn, give it to the child, then I could face the wrath of "trading standards" (a pseudo-govermental organisation set up to give dissatisfied consumers a chance to whinge and complain)

[Leslie Lee III]

Unfortunatly, the line has to be drawn somewhere, and if that's what the law says, that's what has to happen.

Or they can just treat them like PG-13 movies. You don't get carded for those and no one is going to jail over it.

[LtMarvel]

Hillary has a very little problem. This is like the 10,000th most important issue, well behind ones that cost people lives (terror defense, government aid in emergencies, optional wars) and well-being (economy, healthcare).

[mistervader]

But then the kid can't provide ID, so he has to go and get his Mom, who will spend the next 15 mins shouting at me for not selling him the game.

"It's the law" I tell her, whilst showing her a pamphlet explaining the BBFC video game rating system. She doesn't care, she claims it's "only a game" and that I should sell the son the game. I reply "Would you allow me to sell your kid a porno?" She then threatens to report me to trading standard for "being a shit".

Lol. Didn't it occur to the mom to buy the game HERSELF? She's definitely over 13, after all...

Unless she had a kid when she was a year old, of course. :P

[thehod]

Or they can just treat them like PG-13 movies. You don't get carded for those and no one is going to jail over it.

And this is a sensible middle ground, but there has to be some form of law to stop shops flogging GTA to nine year olds.

[Mike Pothier]

Another thing is that, as time goes on, Congressmen are getting younger and younger, phasing out the old guard. And these young congressmen usually come from districts filled with young people in their 20s, 30s, and 40s. Pretty much, the elected officials and their constituents play more and more video games. Pretty much, any action taken to toughen or ban violent video games could be stopped by this new contingent.

Sometimes, politics do work :)

I've been saying this for years. All the Jack Thompsons and Hillary Clintons of the world are fighting a losing battle. Most people who grew up playing videogames never stopped. And we're infiltrating the highest levels of the government. :evilsmile