Rainbow Six: Vegas

[Xero Kaiser]

There's an odd lack of discussion about upcoming games around these parts, so here....

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I've never had the chance to get into RS games as much as I would've liked to lately. But if they can improve on RS3, I'm there

[BlairH]

R6 used to be cool :( Then it was hijacked and milked for the benefit of console owners. It was simplified, pimpified, and X-TREMEified.

I have nothing against console owners wanting their own "blend" of tactical shooter, but please, don't steal and mutilate ours.

Rainbow Six used to be cool :(

AND THE SAME GOES FOR DEUS EX!

[Pepsigirl]

R6 used to be cool :( Then it was hijacked and milked for the benefit of console owners. It was simplified, pimpified, and X-TREMEified.

I have nothing against console owners wanting their own "blend" of tactical shooter, but please, don't steal and mutilate ours.

Rainbow Six used to be cool :(

AND THE SAME GOES FOR DEUS EX!

Yep, I can't remember the last time I played an R6 game and enjoyed it.

I was sooooooooo disappointed in Deus Ex 2. A lot of the stuff they implemented was kind of nice, but most of it did more bad than good, and overall it was a huge letdown.

[BlairH]

Yep, I can't remember the last time I played an R6 game and enjoyed it.
Probably the last PC one that was not also made for the consoles (Rogue Spear)

I was sooooooooo disappointed in Deus Ex 2. A lot of the stuff they implemented was kind of nice, but most of it did more bad than good, and overall it was a huge letdown.
Yeah, that's basically how I feel.

http://www.preys-world.com/pwv2/modules/gallery/albums/album03/Untitled_4.jpg

[Xero Kaiser]

R6 used to be cool :( Then it was hijacked and milked for the benefit of console owners. It was simplified, pimpified, and X-TREMEified.

I have nothing against console owners wanting their own "blend" of tactical shooter, but please, don't steal and mutilate ours.


Stop acting like every RS game was Lockdown

[BlairH]

Stop acting like every RS game was Lockdown

See, that's the thing. Not every R6 game was Lockdown. Before Lockdown all was well, everything was nice and realistic, R6 was the critically acclaimed and realistic counter-terrorist sim. Then the franchise was hijacked by money men seeking to pander to more action oriented tastes. I don't have a problem with this, so long as there is still a good, decent "thinking man's" version of the game released as well. Unfortunately this is not the case.

Rainbow Six: Lockdown does not deserve to bear the R6 name. It's not a bad game by any means, it's just not R6! It's about 5 steps back from the very first Rainbow 6 game.

[Urusai Wrangler]

Console gamers buy games in large quantities; PC gamers generally do not. Because of this, consoles are given first priority except in the rare instance (RTS, MMORPGs), so you can expect a lot more of this sort of thing as time moves forward. It's just the state of the market, and there's not much that can be said to change it at this point, unfortunately...in a nutshell, you may not like what the games have become, but there's ten times as many people who do, for good or ill, and the revenues are pretty much the only thing the publishers are looking at nowadays. I think red flags should've gone up when Microsoft announced they were getting into the console market...if *they* could see that the PC gaming market was broken, I woulda thought more people would've caught on earlier.

Even I was surprised when Id Software announced that their future titles will be developed on the Xbox 360 and then ported *back* to PC.

[Xero Kaiser]

See, that's the thing. Not every R6 game was Lockdown. Before Lockdown all was well, everything was nice and realistic, R6 was the critically acclaimed and realistic counter-terrorist sim. Then the franchise was hijacked by money men seeking to pander to more action oriented tastes. I don't have a problem with this, so long as there is still a good, decent "thinking man's" version of the game released as well. Unfortunately this is not the case.

Rainbow Six: Lockdown does not deserve to bear the R6 name. It's not a bad game by any means, it's just not R6! It's about 5 steps back from the very first Rainbow 6 game

That's one game out of a very large series. A bit premature to talk about hijacking and milking, don't you think? Why are we talking about it again?

If it makes you guys feel any better Ubisoft Montreal (who had a hand in Lockdown) are not involved in this game at all and the guy who was behind RS3 is leading this

[Convoy]

Probably the last PC one that was not also made for the consoles (Rogue Spear)

I thought every single R6 game was also ported to consoles. Or did you mean that was the last game not designed as a console game?

[Maleficentogre]

Every R6 prior to lockdown was a PC game ported to consoles. They were designed for PC gamers. Lockdown was designed for consoles and then just happened to come out on PC as well (and actually came out later).

[BlairH]

I thought every single R6 game was also ported to consoles. Or did you mean that was the last game not designed as a console game?

The original R6 games were not console games. They were ported to the consoles, but they belonged on the PC. Just as Letdown belongs on the consoles.

I'm not talking about ports, I'm talking about joint, simultaneous development. Joint development is killing PC games. Look at Thief: Deadly Shadows, it pales in comparison to the earlier titles in the franchise (small console oriented levels, etc). Likewise: Deus Ex 2 was killed by changes made to make the game more "accessable" for the console market.

Going back to Tom Clancy: Ubi basically made Red Storm abandon the fan base that made the franchise what it is today. If it weren't for us tactical PC gamers, the R6 franchise wouldn't exist, the Ghost Recon franchise wouldn't exist. The original PC version of Ghost Recon had so much more depth than the subsequent versions it's not even funny! The AI was superior, the squad control was superior, the levels were bigger, the enemy combatants were more resiliant and capable foes. I could go on and on.

The original R6 games too, presented the player with more tactical options. Instead of going through a pre-determined set of rooms killing bad guys by their thousands, you were set a mission, and it was up to you to plan how best to execute this mission. Do I go in through the windows? Do I blow open the doors? How can I maximise each team member's strengths and minimise their weaknesses? It was all about choice back then. Modern R6 games are gaming socialism, every player gets an equal experience, and individual choice and freedom is removed from the fun equation.

There is some good news however! Splinter Cell is somewhat of a Tom Clancy anomaly, it works equally well on PC and consoles, mainly because the gameplay dynamic of the sneaky lone operative is set in stone. In addition to this, Ghost Recon 3 will be developed completely seperatley. The PC version is a tactical FPS, the 360 version will be a tactical 3rd PS. The games will be so different, I might consider getting both :) (I'll get the 360 version first though as I haven't got much to play on that particular console)

My point is: There are console games, and there are PC games. The 2 should not mix. I enjoy both, but not at the same time!

[BlairH]

You know, I bet Ubi have done some "intensive research" into the lecations as they always do. I bet they went to Vegas, played blackjack and shagged hookers, and had a jolly old time "researching" the locale.

Can we expect Rainbow Six: Disneyland next?