How to be a responsible fan!

[Paploo the Ewok]

http://community.livejournal.com/burnallscanners/


Due to a lot of fans not managing their hobby responsibly, I thought I'd create this livejournal community promoting the policing of scanlation sites that post licensed material.
It also includes some good tips on how you can enjoy manga fandom without resorting to illegal activities, contact information for companies whose material is being posted illicitly, and other useful info. The worst offenders are those who dare to ask for donations for their "work".

Just thought I'd share this. I've come across a lot of illicit sites recently, and informing the licensors of these activities generally puts this to a stop. If fans monitored stuff like this more heavily, it would make fandom a lot better as a whole, and fan activities more responsible/respectable.

[Pikachu]

I checked the site out, interesting. You did forget one thing however, real fans or otaku often take the time to learn the original language which the comics are produced in. Not everybody has this luxury, but fanatics like me have learned Japanese for many reasons --being able to read their comics uncut and uneditted as one of them.

Most manga coming out in the states is censored or edited of its content and art. Many of the shrink wrapped titles and 18 plus books state side are still edited and cropped quite heavily --Vagabond being an example of this. To me, censorship is worse than free trade which breaks or bends some corporate policy or law. Also, I'd rather pay the wonderful Japanese artists first hand rather than only give them a percentage of the book because the American Publisher decided to take more of a cut after making many cuts destroying the original artistic vision.

But that's just me. To each his own, I guess.

Pika!

[Pikachu]

I'd also like to note that there are still translation sites which break down the manga scripts into English. Such as this Tenjou Tenge site:http://tjtg.mangatranslation.com/index2.html
This allows even English speakers to buy the Japanese version of the manga, download a free "legal" translation of the text, and enjoy it just the same.

There are also summary websites for manga titles in which the latest issues are broken down and discussed as soon as they come out. Just in case you need that instant gratification. An example being this Naruto fan site: http://www.leafninja.com/
These sites are legal as they don't sell the works, or release the full volumes without consent of the original artists. They follow the free information trade act and the law, so you can read your summaries, see preview art, and enjoy the stories without being afriad of the grey areas of fandom.

Pika! ;)

[The Xenos]

Well, I myself just joined my friends in a manga scanlation group. We're doing one that is unliscened here. Not sure if there's any high demand for it anyway. I'm not a big fan of it myself and it is rather ecchi.

My personal take of fansubs and scanlations is that they are temporary things until they are released in the US.

As for liscened scanlations, I confess I do read a few. Yet these are ones that I buy as soon as they come out in the US. Berserk and Deathnote I've read ahead on. I did read ahead on Hellsing a while ago, but now I'm only current ot what's in the US.

Blame! is one I've read all of a while ago. I love getting the US editions. Though that's a special case. I did actually buy the first volume in Japanese.. and the artbook.. and the expensive figures.. and the lame test anime.. with shirt.. and the Japanese magazine with the Blame! Academy one shot.. and I kinda cosplayed as Killy.

Yeah, just a wee bit obsessed there..

I also have gigs of various series. I do need to through them and unshare stuff that has since come out in the US, many of them I haven't read. Though I haven't been on Direct Connect on that main computer in a while.

I love books. Reading manga off the screen just isn't the same. Give me paper and ink. There is something about the visceral physical feel of a book in your and and words of a page that text on a screen just doesn't have.

Also, if you don't like the US version, buy the damned Japanese versions and leep your scanlation or text translations. Don't be a cheap bastard.

Yet you know what? The people that only download stuff and never buy anything. They're not fans. They'd likley not buy things anyway. They're freeloading mommas boys who think they're cool because they think they're **#ing pirates or something.

There's this one guy at our anime club. Dear crap, I swear most of us want to smack the kid. One meeting I was telling him about the Hellsing manga. I said how they were up to volume 7 in the US. He said, in that annoying high know-it-all nerdy voice of his, he didn't care because he was reading them online. Argh. I wanted to smack him.

There's also a secondary anime club at my college. They tend to be the downloaders. I am often irked at their attitude about downloading and liscencing. They just don't care. I am rather friends with them, but they can often be kinda punks when it comes to that. My friends and many in the regular anime club had collections of DVDs we've aquired over time. Many of them have harddrives full of downloads. Now we are friendly, but there is a certain schism between us and I think that's defiantely part of it.

[apple pro]

I checked the site out, interesting. You did forget one thing however, real fans or otaku often take the time to learn the original language which the comics are produced in. Not everybody has this luxury, but fanatics like me have learned Japanese for many reasons --being able to read their comics uncut and uneditted as one of them.

Pika!


you bastard! now i have to learn japanese too!

:D

[Paploo the Ewok]

you bastard! now i have to learn japanese too!

:D


I know how to speak Japanese as well.
I took a university course, so I'm accredited in it, but really all you need to get the basics is a couple How-To Websites [preferrably ones from academic insitutions- more reliable], and a dig through some used book stores for old text books if you want to do a bit more seriously. You probably won't be able to speak Japanese that well, but you'll be able to translate hirigana and katakana efficiently [which is helpful with kid's manga, as most kid's manga is subtitled in full in hirigana, to help kids (or random gaijin!) learn what Kanji say :)]

I didn't include it because when I've suggested it to fans in the past they've said "HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST I LEARN THINGS!" and were generally idiotic abou it.

Fans also do not like it when I suggest just buying the Japanese copy [which are generally very very very very cheap, especially used], and downloading just the translation, because "it's too hard to keep flipping back and fourth".

It's scary how frequently the excuse is just " I'm Lazy ", or " I can't be Bothered"

[Pikachu]

Japanese Manga is super cheap! I mean, a new collected volume of "Naruto" cost 390 yen. That's roughly 180 pages for under $4 American dollars.

Just like Paploo said, the used stuff is even cheaper, running you maybe $2 American for the same book. Can't find Graphic novels that cheap in the U.S. I guess that's the trade off for going black and white. But I for one will take more comic for my buck any day!

Originally Posted by apple pro
you bastard! now i have to learn japanese too!

What can I say? I put the 'atic' in Fanatic!

All kidding aside, Japanese is a wonderful language to learn. It's challenging, fun, complex, beautiful, and comes with an amazing and rich culture. What's more, Japanese is exotic, it's not Latin based, and learning it and the customs which accompany it really opens your mind to an ancient and spectacular world. It's really worth the benefits, even if you only learn it a little bit. Besides, if you choose to take it seriously, you can always pick up a gorgeous Japanese babe like I did! Who am I kidding... I got lucky. She picked me. :rolleyes:

Pika!

[Drew Van T.]

I have to point out that in many cases, scanlations continue to serve legitimate purposes and have merit AFTER the manga has been licensed in the US. Two major examples:

1) The company did a horrible job, utterly changing the work (by leaving things out, altering the characters/story, etc. etc.). Sometimes a US edition is an insult to the original manga, so shouldn't a real fan of the series try to seek out a good scanlation instead?

2) Besides Japanese and English, there are 2000 spoken and written languages on this planet. All of these speakers are potential fans; I for one would like to see the love for manga/anime spread as far and deep as possible. The trouble is that there's not nearly enough "official" publishing/translating being done (in fact it's almost non-existent outside major countries). Existing scanlations are actually incredibly useful in this regard: there are far more people who know English as a second language than Japanese as a 2nd language (probably by a ratio of a thousand to one). By far the easiest and fastest way to transmit manga is by adapting a scanlation into, for example, Greek. All you have to do is find a Greek manga reader who's fluent in English, email them the files, and they don't even have to do any re-scanning; the Greek person can start working immediately on the scanlation file itself.

And the same arguments can be made for fansubs, of course.

[Ayo]

The digital age is quite an interesting time to be alive.


I haven't yet checked out the "scanlation" websites, but I think that it's a fantastic resource and one that I'd like to look into more seriously in the future...not as an alternative to the actual books, but as a tool to assist in the study of comics.


The legalities are moralities are a bit knotty...in the case of poor editorial leadership like CMX's line, the scanlations are morally justifiable, even though they're obviously an illegal bootleg.

It's tricky, all in all.

[sanada]

Well, I'm against the entire premise of people "policing" the fandom... if companies want to do that on their own time, fine.

I translate text scripts for licensed manga, and I'm aware that they're used for scanlations in several languages, some whose countries in which the manga is licensed. I don't do my own scanlations anymore because of joint problems. I can only really see doing scanlations of licensed series when the scanlation is years ahead of the licensed release. For example, I'm translating chapters of a manga which are 20 volumes ahead of the US releases, and only 4 columes released each year in the US. My translations do not compete directly with the licensed release, and the scans used in any scanlations are low quality from a weekly manga magazine. I honestly can't see much of a problem with this.

As far as quality issues with the licensed release... well, they annoy me too, and I catch a LOT of translation and editing errors, some of them truly appalling... but I don't know if low quality alone is enough to justify using scanlations that compete with the original. "Quality" is such a subjective term.

I think US manga releases are overpriced slow, and often very sloppy, so most of my manga are in Japanese. I always advocate buying the original Japanese book, because they're cheaper and higher quality than the US books. But legal-minded fans have to be careful even when buying official Japanese books. If you're buying your manga secondhand from Book-Off or JPQueen, the author and publisher don't make any money from that - it's legal, but moral? Well, you can decide for yourselves. I personally love Book-Off in New York City, haha... $1 manga can't be beat. Amazon.co.jp and Kinokuniya are both good places to get officially released Japanese manga, but it's a lot more expensive and shipping is awful... Sasuga is not so expensive, but it's extremely slow. There are plenty of other Japanese bookstores, so people really can't use the excuse that they can't find original manga.

[The Xenos]

Japanese Manga is super cheap! I mean, a new collected volume of "Naruto" cost 390 yen. That's roughly 180 pages for under $4 American dollars.

Just like Paploo said, the used stuff is even cheaper, running you maybe $2 American for the same book. Can't find Graphic novels that cheap in the U.S. I guess that's the trade off for going black and white. But I for one will take more comic for my buck any day!


Wait a minute.. A friend got me a couple of (I think) used manga when he went to Japan. He said they were like $5 each! I got ripped off. Heh. Actually, it wasn't Naruto, it was more seinen manga which likely cost more. It was Alive and Freesia.

[Ayo]

I personally love Book-Off in New York City, haha... $1 manga can't be beat.

Where is this store?

Thank you.

[Buzz Dixon]

Y'know, the solution to the scanlation issue would be to allow fans to translate books and offer 'em for a fee that they would share with the original copyright/trademark owner. This would let good translators flourish since they would offer the more accurate and (presumably) entertaining versions.

Some might say a drawback would be people adding or changing the original text, but that can happen anyway. If the fee applies to use of the art and the original story, even free wheelin' adaptations would be covered.

Jes' a thot...

[WebScud]

Without fansubs and scanlations anime and manga would not be nearly as popular in the US as it is today. As a whole, they generally help the idustry by generating US interest in a particular IP. Companies know what to license here. Real/true/actual fans buy the US releases. Take it from a guy that worked in a book store; the manga industry is not hurting at all.

When people charge others for fansubs on eBay and the like or sell outright bootlegs it becomes a problem, but subbing groups asking for donations is hardly a crime. Can you imagine what their bandwidth bills are?

[Drew Van T.]

Y'know, the solution to the scanlation issue would be to allow fans to translate books and offer 'em for a fee that they would share with the original copyright/trademark owner. This would let good translators flourish since they would offer the more accurate and (presumably) entertaining versions.

Some might say a drawback would be people adding or changing the original text, but that can happen anyway. If the fee applies to use of the art and the original story, even free wheelin' adaptations would be covered.

Jes' a thot...

It's a good idea, Buzz, but the politics of copyright as they are now would scupper the system too easily. In the case of a series that gains popularity in a large market by virtue of these fee-based scanlations, the temptation for copyright holders would be to leave the system at that point and retroactively destroy the scanlations.

[Buzz Dixon]

It's a good idea, Buzz, but the politics of copyright as they are now would scupper the system too easily. In the case of a series that gains popularity in a large market by virtue of these fee-based scanlations, the temptation for copyright holders would be to leave the system at that point and retroactively destroy the scanlations.
Not nercessarily. Say the underlying copyright owner always gets a fixed slice of whatever fee is charged (let's say a penny on each nickle). If there are a dozen different scanlations out there, each one will kick back a penny per nickle regardless of how many people read it in a given month. The more scanlations the better, as some readers will prefer one translators style over another.

The translators would, in effect, be promoting the copyright holder's work for free since their income derives from people reading their particular scanlation.

This is all linked to the new e-commerce of "the long tail" which shifts the business model for media away from making all your money back at once and more to keeping titles available for a long, long time though making less money upfront.

[Pikachu]

My answer would be to release all the DOUJINSHI from Japan. Yes, ALL OF IT!

Then the American legal system wouldn't know what to do with itself. For example, if you had 5 versions of Naruto floating around, all released by different publishers, drawn by artists other than the original creator, all making money off a product that's not their initial creation, and just for fun...

Have fan scanlations of Doujinshi which is being published, and nobody knows where the money should go... maybe the Government would collapse. Or explode. Or something. And all the laywers would be scratching their heads wondering how manga ruined the United States Legal sytem. :evilsmile

And maybe after all the dust settles, we could get Doujinshi of Superman. And have a shonen-ai or yaoi title where Batman and Superman make love with each other. Or maybe, there might be actually a good story done with iconic American comic book characters. *sigh. Oh well, a Manga fan can dream.

Pika!

[Robin3]

I don't think you're a real fan. This sounds like something from an industry plant. What's your vested interest, one way or another in what people do?

and no, I don't download scanlations-- it's easier for me to shell out $10 for something professionally done, but I don't really care what other people do.

[The Xenos]

My answer would be to release all the DOUJINSHI from Japan. Yes, ALL OF IT!

Then the American legal system wouldn't know what to do with itself. For example, if you had 5 versions of Naruto floating around, all released by different publishers, drawn by artists other than the original creator, all making money off a product that's not their initial creation, and just for fun...

Have fan scanlations of Doujinshi which is being published, and nobody knows where the money should go... maybe the Government would collapse. Or explode. Or something. And all the laywers would be scratching their heads wondering how manga ruined the United States Legal sytem. :evilsmile

And maybe after all the dust settles, we could get Doujinshi of Superman. And have a shonen-ai or yaoi title where Batman and Superman make love with each other. Or maybe, there might be actually a good story done with iconic American comic book characters. *sigh. Oh well, a Manga fan can dream.

Pika!

That was hilariously awesome.

[Paploo the Ewok]

I have to point out that in many cases, scanlations continue to serve legitimate purposes and have merit AFTER the manga has been licensed in the US. Two major examples:

1) The company did a horrible job, utterly changing the work (by leaving things out, altering the characters/story, etc. etc.). Sometimes a US edition is an insult to the original manga, so shouldn't a real fan of the series try to seek out a good scanlation instead?

2) Besides Japanese and English, there are 2000 spoken and written languages on this planet. All of these speakers are potential fans; I for one would like to see the love for manga/anime spread as far and deep as possible. The trouble is that there's not nearly enough "official" publishing/translating being done (in fact it's almost non-existent outside major countries). Existing scanlations are actually incredibly useful in this regard: there are far more people who know English as a second language than Japanese as a 2nd language (probably by a ratio of a thousand to one). By far the easiest and fastest way to transmit manga is by adapting a scanlation into, for example, Greek. All you have to do is find a Greek manga reader who's fluent in English, email them the files, and they don't even have to do any re-scanning; the Greek person can start working immediately on the scanlation file itself.

And the same arguments can be made for fansubs, of course.


Well, that's kind of a moot point. I took down the community due to a rather harsh flaming from a person who scans domestic comics quite illegally, and thought I should try making a more general site, less connected to myself personally [it's a shame when you get harrassed so harshly by people doing something quite illegal for just saying "it's illegal- here's other things you can do"]

Anyhoo, this was on the site----

"One of the most common reasons people use to defend scanlations of licensed material is unavailability in foriegn countries.
This is quite simply, a lie.

TokyoPop, Viz and Dark Horse's work is available in America, Canada, England, Ireland, Scotland, Bermuda, Australia, and many other countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_manga_distributors

A useful Wikipedia Entry! Though the inclusion of scanlations is somewhat silly, given what a large range of publishers is evident.... you'll also note that there are other english manga publishers worldwide, based in Australia and Singapore, to cover areas TP, DH and VIZ can't completely serve. And this is by no means a complete list.

http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA6279934.html And an article on comic publishers at the Frankfurt BookFair!

And there are NUMEROUS publishers of foriegn language manga. TokyoPop and VIZ actually work together to publish manga in Germany!

http://home.comcast.net/~mahousu/liste.manga.html Here's a great resource for info on French manga, which is readily available in all french speaking territories, including Canada, Belgium, and many European countries, and former french colonies.
http://www.asuka.fr/
http://www.pika.fr/
http://www.sakka.info/
http://www.paninicomicsfrance.com/
http://www.glenat.com/

http://www.chuangyi.com.sg/english/ Singapore's Chuang Yi, whose products are available in many territories VIZ+TP can't reach.

I hope to update later with site URLS for all international publishers, although a quick google could probably land the appropriate sites for any readers looking for more information.

For regions who truly don't get coverage from any licensed publisher whatsoever [Russia might be in this area, but from my understanding, there are some licensed publishers emerging... pretty much the only nations I have found who do not have translated manga are those who prohibit comics publication in some form], it's my belief that scanlation groups who seek to serve those areas should do so in the language of that country. Doing it in english just means North American fans can abuse this system, and will limit it only to those who can speak English, which not everyone in Russia can [or another country whom publishers cannot reach for assorted reasons]

http://ranma.anime.ru/english.htm Here is an example of Russian anime fandom- you'll note this is the only section in English on their website. http://ranma.anime.ru/ I have also come across Russian fansites which post translations, and get along quite well without the aid of English scanlators.


This is one of the larger delusions I've seen that fans use to argue for scanlations of licensed material. When material is licensed, you should not be sharing it, as posting unlicensed material is a legally grey situation as it is. Always try to enjoy fandom responsibly!

If you see someone posting licensed materials, please, contact the publishers! "

I really should visit CRB's anime/manga forum more often.

I see your argument as a misguided attempt to excuse a very illegal activity. There are MANY licensed versions of mang in MANY languages, and the VAST majority of the users of these sites have more then enough accessto licensed, well translated official versions in their own countries [or live in an english speaking country]

[Paploo the Ewok]

My answer would be to release all the DOUJINSHI from Japan. Yes, ALL OF IT!

Then the American legal system wouldn't know what to do with itself. For example, if you had 5 versions of Naruto floating around, all released by different publishers, drawn by artists other than the original creator, all making money off a product that's not their initial creation, and just for fun...

Have fan scanlations of Doujinshi which is being published, and nobody knows where the money should go... maybe the Government would collapse. Or explode. Or something. And all the laywers would be scratching their heads wondering how manga ruined the United States Legal sytem. :evilsmile

And maybe after all the dust settles, we could get Doujinshi of Superman. And have a shonen-ai or yaoi title where Batman and Superman make love with each other. Or maybe, there might be actually a good story done with iconic American comic book characters. *sigh. Oh well, a Manga fan can dream.

Pika!

Head splodeyness aside, on a tangent, I know a TON of doujinshi circles are megapissed when "fans" post their works online. These are fanworks, and within japanese legalities [like say, fanfiction is within US legalities], and their selling is limited just to Comic Cons. Companies regularly attack those fan doujinshi [not all doujins are fanfiction works, some are original material] that go to far in Japan [ie- going overboard on production runs/sales, or in the subject matter] . Lots of Doujin circles do not take well to people pirating off their work, and have been known to contact scanlators on occasion about it.
Anyhoo, where Doujin are just fanworks, with all-new art and stories, I think it'd be a completely different thing. In the US, companies only tend to have issues with those who attempt to massmarket their fanworks [selling fanart at a con, or posting a fancomic online is not an issue].

it's a bit worse for Doujin creators too, who are a smaller market, and more affected by bootlegging, and lack the resources or ability to stop scanners. Doujin aren't too expensive for what they are [limited print run books], and reasonably easy to find from many, many mail order sites.

[Paploo the Ewok]

I don't think you're a real fan. This sounds like something from an industry plant. What's your vested interest, one way or another in what people do?

and no, I don't download scanlations-- it's easier for me to shell out $10 for something professionally done, but I don't really care what other people do.


Nope, I'm a real fan. Just asking for other fans to have some responsibility is all. Like ADV or VIZ have the time or money to hire someone to be a plant, let alone me. The Anime Industry is FAR smaller then most people suspect.

[Paploo the Ewok]

Without fansubs and scanlations anime and manga would not be nearly as popular in the US as it is today. As a whole, they generally help the idustry by generating US interest in a particular IP. Companies know what to license here. Real/true/actual fans buy the US releases. Take it from a guy that worked in a book store; the manga industry is not hurting at all.

When people charge others for fansubs on eBay and the like or sell outright bootlegs it becomes a problem, but subbing groups asking for donations is hardly a crime. Can you imagine what their bandwidth bills are?

The problem with donations and charging for these things is that we don't really know where they're going. Is it really to cover hosting costs? Or to buy them a new Computer or Television? I've seen many sites who just shut down from time to time, or impose limitations. Or just use P2P systems.

Charging someone for material you don't have the rights to is something far, far more sinister then simply translating an unlicensed manga or anime [which is a grey area. Quite illegal, immoral in some ways, but you're not profitting off it at least]. There are FAR too many sites posting material that's licesned, and that has been popular for years, and has no need of this kind of "help", like Appleseed, Shonen Jump works, or Clamp works. I have come across VERY VERY few sites actually posting materials that have no chance at all of ever being reprinted [like say, Candy Candy, the famous shoujo manga which is out of print since the mid 90's due to legal battles of the artist and writer]


I don't think it's hurting things too badly, but it's definitely creating a new group of vocal fans who think everything should be free, and a lack of respect for anime companies and professional translators. It'll definitely affect the industry's growth if more and more people discover anime via scanlations, in an enviroment that is slowly leaning towards anti-licensor attitudes [ie- scanlations are automatically superior, the "publishers are a mafia" conspiracy I've seen, it's automatically ruined if it's licesned, and stuff like petitions to gt a title unlicensed, or not shown on Cartoon Network]. I just don't want to see a mass fandom stupidity movemnbt.
It's something I don't really like seeing myself. It's not like companies can stop it, but it certainly wouldn't hurt to try to steer folks in the right direction.

[Paploo the Ewok]

Well, I'm against the entire premise of people "policing" the fandom... if companies want to do that on their own time, fine.

I translate text scripts for licensed manga, and I'm aware that they're used for scanlations in several languages, some whose countries in which the manga is licensed. I don't do my own scanlations anymore because of joint problems. I can only really see doing scanlations of licensed series when the scanlation is years ahead of the licensed release. For example, I'm translating chapters of a manga which are 20 volumes ahead of the US releases, and only 4 columes released each year in the US. My translations do not compete directly with the licensed release, and the scans used in any scanlations are low quality from a weekly manga magazine. I honestly can't see much of a problem with this.

As far as quality issues with the licensed release... well, they annoy me too, and I catch a LOT of translation and editing errors, some of them truly appalling... but I don't know if low quality alone is enough to justify using scanlations that compete with the original. "Quality" is such a subjective term.

I think US manga releases are overpriced slow, and often very sloppy, so most of my manga are in Japanese. I always advocate buying the original Japanese book, because they're cheaper and higher quality than the US books. But legal-minded fans have to be careful even when buying official Japanese books. If you're buying your manga secondhand from Book-Off or JPQueen, the author and publisher don't make any money from that - it's legal, but moral? Well, you can decide for yourselves. I personally love Book-Off in New York City, haha... $1 manga can't be beat. Amazon.co.jp and Kinokuniya are both good places to get officially released Japanese manga, but it's a lot more expensive and shipping is awful... Sasuga is not so expensive, but it's extremely slow. There are plenty of other Japanese bookstores, so people really can't use the excuse that they can't find original manga.


It's legal, and perfectly moral to buy used copies, seeing as the company has recieved payment for that individual copy. It's not like they're selling the same individual copy to 50000+ online users. Just like it's legal, and moral to borrow the copies publishers have authorized libraries to loan to people. Because it's with their permission, and encouragement. Whereas a site offering hundreds of manga for a monthly subscription fee is doing so without the knowledge or permission of the creators.

I find in comparison it paperbacks, Manga are pretty decently priced. As print runs increase, we'll be bound to see lower prices. So long as people keep buying more manga, and the market grows [ie- VIZ's 7.95 Shonen Jump line and 8.95 Shoujo Beat line, adn TP's experiments with 5.99 trades. And DH's upcoming 400+ page edition of Gunsmith Cats for 14.95]

I think as companies slow down release schedules more [ie- less monthly books], we'll start seeing better quality control. Good quality takes time, so fans should be more patient.

[sanada]

It's legal, and perfectly moral to buy used copies, seeing as the company has recieved payment for that individual copy. It's not like they're selling the same individual copy to 50000+ online users. Just like it's legal, and moral to borrow the copies publishers have authorized libraries to loan to people. Because it's with their permission, and encouragement. Whereas a site offering hundreds of manga for a monthly subscription fee is doing so without the knowledge or permission of the creators.

I find in comparison it paperbacks, Manga are pretty decently priced. As print runs increase, we'll be bound to see lower prices. So long as people keep buying more manga, and the market grows [ie- VIZ's 7.95 Shonen Jump line and 8.95 Shoujo Beat line, adn TP's experiments with 5.99 trades. And DH's upcoming 400+ page edition of Gunsmith Cats for 14.95]

I think as companies slow down release schedules more [ie- less monthly books], we'll start seeing better quality control. Good quality takes time, so fans should be more patient.

Well, all I know is that the used-manga stores have been under fire in Japan in the past for selling a lot of bookstore surplus - when they do that, the publishing company doesn't make money. Book-off doesn't exactly have the best reputation among publishers.

Yeah, the Shounen Jump manga really aren't that expensive, but the majority of the titles are $9.99 or more. This is still an improvement over the $15.99 manga that we saw years ago, but I guess I'm used to paying the equivalent of $3 for a tankoubon, maybe $7 for one of the really fancy large ones - but even the $3 ones are generally of higher quality than US releases. I've never had one of my japanese manga literally fall apart in my hands, but I have several English ones that are losing pages. It's the same as publishers inflating the price of "trade paperback" books to somewhere around $18 - I worked in the book industry for years and publishers *love* being able to double or triple the price of a book just by printing it on slightly better paper. That's really more the fault of the book publishing industry as a whole, though, not just manga publishers (manga falls under the trade paperback category too). I would rather see Tokyopop and Viz or whoever make manga availible for reading online - even if the scans were in some undownloadable format (like, through a flash player setup or something).

As for quality control... some of the sloppiest translation/editing jobs come from ADV, the company with the slowest release schedule (one enver even knows *if* ADV will release the next volume of anything). Many comics in the US and Japan are published weekly, and you don't see that kind of sloppiness. There's almost this mentality that English-speaking readers are a captive audience who don't really have any alternatives if they want to read manga in a language they understand. And well, for the most part you are. *laugh* I don't really think scanlations can have the kind of market pressure for the companies to deliver a higher quality product.