If you could make 5 changes to BATMAN..

[Paul Kersey]

It's a little late to hope for any more changes to Batman considering the OYL issues are already out, but if you were in charge of the BATMAN titles and the people in charge at DC said as a result of Infinite Crisis "we are going to change/fix certain comics including Batman, so we're leaving it up to you," what would those changes be?

[glennsim]

1. He embraces his role in the super-hero community.
2. He has to go to work as Bruce sometimes, giving him a non-Bat supporting cast.
3. He gets rid of the sharp batarangs, and goes back to just blunt ones. I think that's sortof a metaphor for his personality.
4. He laughs at Alfred's jokes.
5. He gets a steady girlfriend.

[The Shadow]

It's a little late to hope for any more changes to Batman considering the OYL issues are already out, but if you were in charge of the BATMAN titles and the people in charge at DC said as a result of Infinite Crisis "we are going to change/fix certain comics including Batman, so we're leaving it up to you," what would those changes be?
If I were in charge...

1. Jason Todd would still be dead
2. Everything from Murderer to present was a "bad dream"
3. I would try and reestablish some of Batman's lesser rogues and create some new ones
4. Shane McCarthy would be on a monthly Batman book
5. Jason Todd would still be dead!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[The Wayner]

1. Jason Todd would still be dead (definitely have to agree with Shadow, here)
2. Bruce Wayne returns to a more prominent spot in the workplace, thus developing another branch of supporting cast
3. Lesser villains would get an upgrade; and there would be new baddies, too
4. There would be a definitive end to HUSH
5. Detective work would jump to the forefront of plotlines

[Violently Apathetic]

Changes, changes...

1. I'd try to undo the damage done to Steph and Leslie as a result of War Games.
2. Batman's relationship with the other heroes and his family would be improved and he'd learn to trust again. An alienated Batman is not as fun as a Batman who likes to be alone, but has friends and family waiting for him.
3. New Rogues and Classic rogues would be used with equal frequency.
4. I actually agree, get Bruce a stable romantic relationship for a while.
5. Bring back Ace, the Bathound (What?!)

[Paul Kersey]

okay, my changes would be these:

1) Barbara Gordon is the biological daughter of Jim Gordon and was never shot and crippled by the Joker. I don't know if I would like to see her as Batgirl full time, but whatever. I feel there were still room for some more Bat-Girl stories before Alan Moore did what he did. I read somewhere that he assumed it was going to be an out of continuity story.

2) Sarah Gordon was never killed by the Joker. I don't like Gordon not having a wife, and I do not care to see him dating. I don't like that the Joker hurt so many people close to Batman. Killing Robin so that it's personal between the two, okay. But too much is too much.

3) Leslie Thompkins would not be a killer, and Spoiler would not be dead, but would neither have been Robin IV. I didn't like Leslie that much but she was a moral character if not a little too liberal, but the woman raising Bruce turning out to be a murderer just isn't right.

4)Catwoman would NOT be mindwiped or mindaltered.

5) Jason would still be dead, and the new Red Hood story never happened.

[literally exaggerated]

1. No Robin. Ever again.
2. More Bruce Wayne, play up the manipulative, charming billionare side, more intrigue
3. He'd be scarier. Not Just scary because we're told he's scary, but genuinely frightening. Remember how terrifying V in V for Vendetta was? Like that.
4. He'd be smarter. More detective work, more prep god stuff, more cool gadgets.
5. He'd have a sense of humor, albeit an incredibly dark and sarcastic one.

Essentially picture John Constantine, Black Panther and V rolled up into one brilliant, terrifying package.

[Ultraman Max]

1) I'd likely retcon Jason Todd entirely

2) Split the book focus so that Detective always features the team of Batman and Robin while Batman would be his solo book.

3) Some more villians, but go for the outragous/flamboyant angle who tend to last rather than the "gritty crimeboss" types that are almost always forgetable.

4) Catwoman not be mindwiped/mind-altered

5) More outgoing Bruce Wayne

[Mia]

1. No Robin. Ever again.
2. More Bruce Wayne, play up the manipulative, charming billionare side, more intrigue
3. He'd be scarier. Not Just scary because we're told he's scary, but genuinely frightening. Remember how terrifying V in V for Vendetta was? Like that.
4. He'd be smarter. More detective work, more prep god stuff, more cool gadgets.
5. He'd have a sense of humor, albeit an incredibly dark and sarcastic one.

Essentially picture John Constantine, Black Panther and V rolled up into one brilliant, terrifying package.





Literally Exagerated hit all the points I want to make ( Except I see him more as James Bond/Thomas Crown), So I'll just expand a little.

1. No more Robins. Batman is a loner, and a solitary man. People like that don't like having teenage brats hanging around them. Send Timmy Drake off to Harvard, MIT or Dartmouth where he belongs. Or get him a job working for Google.

2. More Bruce Wayne. I want to see Bruce with some hobbies, like collecting works of art, playing polo. Or even stagging robbery heists (for fun--he would return the goods of course).


3. More corporate shenannigans, where he has to fight to save his company, and against hostile take overs. Oh and give him a real rival like Lex Luthor (or who Hush should have been in the first place) someone from his past who despises his Richie Rich upbringing and wants to destroy him.


4. More Detective work. Where he has to hunt down clues, and figure out, like on CSI.

5. Either a steady relationship or have him date a beavy of beauties. Bruce is a very charimatic and sexy man. He's the kind of man woman want to be with. So show him with women, and I don't just mean empty headed models who are good for a night in bed. They should be more than that, should be strong formidable and complex women, like the Bond girls.

[Hellcow]

1. No Robin ever... it was just a bad dream
2. Villians would be based more the the real world, with some interesting twists, but no stupid and obvious gimmicks.
3. Bruce Wayne would not be rich, he would not start out rich, he would be poor, and only through the death of his parents does he become motivated to change the world. He would then become rich... a self made man.
4. Definitely more of a detective/intimidator/manipulator - than a clean cut action stud.
5. It would take a long time to bring down major villians, but when they were brought down, they would stay down for a long time or forever. And if they were to arise again, it would be through a significant and believable event, and not just a convenient "they escaped again" reason.

[Gingold]

1. I'd bring back the yellow oval on his chest and make the cape and cowl blue again
2. Teaming up with Robin on a regular basis.
3. I 'd like a big, and well-used supporting cast.I'd make Talia, Catwoman, Silver and Vicki regulars in the comics to create more of a soap opera feel.
4. More sci-fi closet and other funky new gadgets
5. Have Bruce move out of the Manor and into the city

[literally exaggerated]

Gingold, I can safely say if that happened I would never pick up a Batman comic again.

[Young Avenger]

1. Jason Todd would stay dead

2. Team up with Robin regularly

3. Bruce Wayne playing a part in the story

4. Give Bruce a social life

5. Bruce and Selina never hooking up again (Bruce belongs with Talia!)

[Gingold]

Gingold, I can safely say if that happened I would never pick up a Batman comic again.

Hey, if I had been allowed 6 changes, I would've said bring back Ace, the Bathound. :D

[ryan_catcher]

1. More Bruce Wayne. Give Batman a life outside of Batman.

1b. Or have Bruce Wayne loose his money.

2. Give him a leading lady. I don't care who.

3. No more Arkham Asylum as a Prison. Keep the real crazy people there like the Joker. Everyone else gets to go to normal prison.

4. A Riddler / Scarecrow Team-Up.

5. Another Gotham Hero/Villian who takes down (kills) Villians. Maybe as an Elseworlds though.

[Carl Orr]

1. No Robin. Ever again.
2. More Bruce Wayne, play up the manipulative, charming billionare side, more intrigue
3. He'd be scarier. Not Just scary because we're told he's scary, but genuinely frightening. Remember how terrifying V in V for Vendetta was? Like that.
4. He'd be smarter. More detective work, more prep god stuff, more cool gadgets.
5. He'd have a sense of humor, albeit an incredibly dark and sarcastic one.

Essentially picture John Constantine, Black Panther and V rolled up into one brilliant, terrifying package.

This would be awesome. And even more awesome in a Batman movie. I want to see batman do some serious killing in a monthly Vertigo comic book.

[Dos]

1. He embraces his role in the super-hero community.
2. He has to go to work as Bruce sometimes, giving him a non-Bat supporting cast.
3. He gets rid of the sharp batarangs, and goes back to just blunt ones. I think that's sortof a metaphor for his personality.
4. He laughs at Alfred's jokes.
5. He gets a steady girlfriend.

I like a lot of these and instead of copying and pasting I am giving credit... but i would change

1. He either stops being a part of the super-hero community except for occasional help and consulting or he joins it. Realistically he cant be a loner in gotham but never use the extreme badass powerhouse tech he uses on the jla and other teamups.

3. Jason dead and no more robins ever ever ever ever ever again.

[King Krypton]

1. Return to the gray and blue costume. The yellow halo, I can take or leave. (I might prefer a blue belt with a gold buckle, though.)

2. Get back the Batman/Robin/Alfred troika as a critical element to Batman's character. O'Neil and Dixon both admitted that you need that trio to show Batman as a fully rounded personality, or he winds up coming off as a psycho. And if that trio was good enough for Bill Finger, it's good enough for me.

3. Lose the "cat-hooker" origin for Selina and give her a background more like the cartoon, restore Poison Ivy to being a normal redhead in green tights (she was sexier that way, make the Riddler more like Frank Gorshin's take, make the Joker a total anti-Batman...in other words, kick it old-school with the bad guys.

4. No Batjerk. Bruce Wayne is a guy who can relax and enjoy the mopment when called for and be driven and focused when called for. In other words, he has a life, he has friends (superhero and otherwise), and he has decent dates.

5. A return to the gonzo imagination and wild exuberance of the Golden Age at its peak. Giant props would be a welcome touch, too, but not a requirement.

[Maleficentogre]

1. raise stephy from the dead
2. Get Bruce involved in the crime fighting. He's a gazillionaire and owns pretty much all of gotham city. Flash your power, you can be a putz and everything and still use money to booster the police force and other stuff like that. No one would so much as look at you a second way because they know about your parents. they'd figure you're finally living up to your father's name and are trying to make sure what happened to them doesn't happen to anyone else.
3. Be a detective again. Oracle is cool and I love her but don't rely on her so much. Batman is the greatest detective in the world, show it. Show everyone how much smarter you are than them.
4. Be nice to people. Don't have to be butt budies with everyone, and you don't have to be chatty, and you really don't even have to talk to anyone, but you totally not be a jerk.
5. Be Superman's pal. I like my superman and batman to be friends. I guess it could go in the nice category but I think it's more important that Batman and Superman be friends than anyone else. If the rest of the heroes hate his guts so be it, but superman and batman should stand together.

[Damo]

1. Try to undo the damage done to Steph and Leslie as a result of War Games.
2. Jason Todd still dead. Very very dead. Cremated.
3. Hush either dead (cremated) or given a much better personality and motivation. Same could be said of a lot of villains (WHY have we never been given a good Callendar man outside of Long Halloween and Dark Justice? The take on the character to use is there! Right there! How in blazes do you decide to cash in on the character's new look by greenlighting crap like "All the Deadly Days"? Yeesh...)
4. Cassandra is Batgirl again.
4b. Batman beats the tar out of someone that wants Babs back as Batgirl again. You want her to stop being Oracle, a unique and powerful character that struggles with her disability and rises above it, in order to step back into Batman's shadow? Yeah, have Dick become Robin too while you're at it.
5. At the very least hint that Ivy reeeeally likes Harley. ^_~

I agree with a lot said about Selina (cut the hooker, cut the mindwipe, frankly cut the "hero" bit and make her a thief with a good side), but this is the "BATMAN" changes thread, and she has her own book...

There was something I wanted to forget about Bane, some nonsensical plot... but I'd prefer not to even mention it on a wish list. Yeah...

[Maleficentogre]

I was going to include bane in mine and ask to make him the calculating genius that broke batman again.
Ivy was hinted at having a thing for harley somewhere recently but I can't for the life of me remember where it was, but if i find it I'll tell you.

[EZMOHR]

1. Keep The Joker, Hush, and Two-Face out of the comics until the Batman Begins sequel.

Yes, every writer wants to do his or her definitive "Joker" story. I say, put a moritorium on him and Harvey Dent until the sequel comes out. If a writer, any writer, any, any, any writer (yes, even Grant Morrison) says he wants to do his Joker story now, if you are Batman's editor, say "nope", not for a couple years. Every writer who is worth anything will still want to write their Joker story at the end of the decade still. You need people to want to anticipate The Joker's return. It needs to be special. And Harvey has never been over-used, but if you put a moritorium on The Joker, the next most used as naseum villian will be Two-Face. That is just who it will fall to. And then there is Hush. All the bitter fan-boys hate the original Hush and Return of Hush, and Hush's Dream House. Well, guess what, somebody bought all those comics to make us get Malibu Hush. The original Hush story was cool, and I think Hush can still be cool. Any character can be made great with a great writer. Keep these three out of the limelight for a while and it could make the characters great again.

2. Don't Listen to the Crazy Mob: Keep Jason Todd AROUND.

Sorry to tell the bitter-men, but the cat is out of the bag.....Jason Todd will be kept around. There is nothing you can do about it. DEAL WITH IT. Or don't buy Batman comics. I've never heard more whining about a comic ever, than with the Under the Hood arc that recently happened in Batman comics. Yet, it seems like the only complaints were of the emotional variety. "I voted for Jason Todd to die." "I hate Judd Winick. He can only write AIDS stories." "I hate more Joker stories." "I'm tired of Black Mask." Read the story. It was a pretty darn good story. It had people guessing almost the whole time if it was really Jason Todd. It also had people buying the issues to say....I hate Jason Todd. This has got to say something to DC...Jason Todd is a character that will sell books. Now, DC has got to do something with him. Make him Batman's failure. Play that up....but make Jason Todd the anti-Batman. When Wizard did a proposal on how to do an Ultimate Batman story, they said the Joker should be written as someone who idolized Batman, but starting icing bad-guys because he took the war to the extreme. This would be perfect for Jason Todd. And since, DC seems intent on making Jason Todd a pawn between Talia and Bruce play up that fact. I guess the point is...do something with Jason Todd. Don't cower to the fans that say, "I paid .75 to kill 'em..keep him dead." Well tools, almost as many people paid .75 to keep him alive (if I had not been like 7 at the time, I would've kept him alive, because Robin always needs to be around...and Jason Todd was a character that was a product of his time...he can be changed.) If you are that hard up for .75 quit posting that you hate Jason Todd and get a job.

3. Bruce Wayne....Billionaire Playboy.

I think this is the most under-utilized parts of the Bat-verse. The man is the John John Kennedy of the DC Universe. He's rich, he's good looking, and he's built like a mutha. The fact is, if Bruce is as grim and gritty as he is being made out to be now, people would talk. He is never seen outside of the cape and cowl any more. This guy has got to know that people would talk if they don't see him for days at a time. Basically, build up that "real world" supporting cast. (like everyone has said.) Bring in more Silver St. Cloud. More Vicky Vale. Hell, even introduce Rachel Dawes if you have to. Make Bruce Wayne a part of Batman again.

4. Batman and Robin

Tim Drake is 17 years old. He is great at what he does. He is Robin. Yet, he doesn't know everything. He needs someone to keep mentoring him. Make him the hero he is supposed to be. Thus, I say bring back more of the Batman and Robin aspect of the book. Now, for some reason people hate Robin. Ok basement dwellers, here it goes. THERE WILL ALWAYS BE ROBIN. ALWAYS!!!! And there should be. He is an intrigal part to the Bat mythos. And Tim Drake is a good character. Let him partner up with Batman and learn more, because right now, they make him a little too calculating for a 17 year old, he's still got some tricks he needs to learn.

5. NO MORE BATMAN BOOKS

"..And God said, let there be only two books staring Batman. And there was only Batman and Detective Comics. And it was good." Batman and the Gotham'verse should only be in two comics...Batman and Detective Comics. We don't need Legends of the Dark Knight. We don't need Gotham Tales. We don't need Batman/Superman. We don't need Good Morning Batman. I say, to make the Batman more revitalized is not him being everywhere...it's him needing to only be in Detective and Batman. And yes, jam all those characters into those two books. Have the stories of The Joker, Two-Face, The Riddler, Killer-Croc, Maxie Zeus, Catwoman, Egg-Head, Mr. Freeze, Jason Todd, Comm. Gordon, Oracle, Robin, Bane, Azrael, Clayface and everybody else paid for in only two books. That way, you only put the eggs in two baskets....not into every basket and the egg processing plant.

[AlistairCrane]

1) Cut himself off from the rest of the superhero community and stay in Gotham with his Batfamily (Nightwing could be his representative in the JLA or something)
2) Bring Robin and Batgirl (Cassie Cain) back to Gotham permanently
3) Bring back Azrael as Batman's international agent
4) Marry off Bruce and Selina
5) Kill off Jim Gordon

[Violently Apathetic]

EZMOHR is my new hero. Well said, man, well said.

[seaflower]

1. Make War Games a bad dream
2. Bring back Leslie
3. Bring back Robin and Batgirl to Gotham
4. Create interesting new villians and give Joker and Two Face a vacation
5. Have more detective stories not mindless filler stories...

[Damo]

EZMOHR makes several superb points (I disagree strongly on the Jason Todd one, but I think we can agree that's going to be a fandom splitting point).

Regarding the 5th point, however...

Okay, the number of Bat-books is occassionally silly. There was nothing about Death and the Maidens that made it a story you couldn't tell in the regular titles. It would've been a great run in Detective or Batman. And I roll my eyes every time something like War Games rolls along, demanding "collect them all!"

But when you say no more Bat-books... do you mean cancelling books like Nightwing, Robin, Batgirl, and Birds of Prey? I wouldn't call those "Batman" books, just books that occassionally show Batman as a supporting character. I note you listed Oracle and Robin among the characters that should only show up in those 2 Batman books. And cutting those titles would be two steps massively back for a lot of characters, IMHO.

[Maleficentogre]

I'm sure he means that gotham knights and legends are totally not needed and we would be fine with just batman and detective. which are the only books that matter really. Do you have any idea how much better the villains would be portrayed when they're all concentrated in 2 books instead of 4? It'd be better. More freedom for the writers.
I agree with all of his points. Especially about robin. I don't understand how people can hate the idea of robin so much. blows my mind.
keep jason he's good. (how he got here not so much; but him himself is a good character)

[EZMOHR]

EZMOHR makes several superb points (I disagree strongly on the Jason Todd one, but I think we can agree that's going to be a fandom splitting point).

Regarding the 5th point, however...

Okay, the number of Bat-books is occassionally silly. There was nothing about Death and the Maidens that made it a story you couldn't tell in the regular titles. It would've been a great run in Detective or Batman. And I roll my eyes every time something like War Games rolls along, demanding "collect them all!"

But when you say no more Bat-books... do you mean cancelling books like Nightwing, Robin, Batgirl, and Birds of Prey? I wouldn't call those "Batman" books, just books that occassionally show Batman as a supporting character. I note you listed Oracle and Robin among the characters that should only show up in those 2 Batman books. And cutting those titles would be two steps massively back for a lot of characters, IMHO.


Personally, I say keep Nightwing, because Dick Grayson is a major player in the DCU now. Keep Birds of Prey, because people seem to like it.

Batgirl.....I've never liked Cassandra Cain. She just always seemed to be "stock, silent, femme fatale #37." She wasn't interesting to me. But people seem to like her. If she is to stay Batgirl, I say get rid of her title, but keep her as a part of Batman and Det. Comics. Or do the same thing with a Batgirl. I also think that it is funny that people HATE Echo in New Avengers for the same reasons they love Cassandra Cain in Batgirl. Just my Opinion.

Robin.....is a major character in a lot of books now. He needs to stay in Teen Titans and Batman/Det. Comics. I think that is just the way it needs to be.

And if we could pick extra things beyond the five things to change batman, it would be the following.

6. James Ellroy and Bryan Hitch on Detective Comics
7. Ed Brubaker and Jim Lee on Batman

[stillanerd]

1. Batman: The Animated Series and Batman Begins had the right idea: Batman and the “Bruce Wayne as billionaire playboy” are roles. Batman is the fear that criminals use to prey on the innocent reflected back at them and given form. Like a person who masters Akido, Bruce becomes Batman to “turn fear against those who use fear.” But the public face Bruce puts on is also a reflection: that what the public expects him to be--a spoiled, rich, incompetent, pretty boy whose only passions in life seem to be fast cars and fast women. Then of course there’s the real Bruce Wayne, the consummate professional, the detective, a man who respects those he cares about even if he keeps them at a distance, someone who seeks only to free his city from crime and to not let what happened to him happen to anyone else. And I’d make the writers of the Batman comics NOT forget this.

2. There should be two tones set for the two Batman comics. Detective Comics should take its cue from the pulp detective novels of the 1930s, 40s and 50s in where Batman solves mysteries. If it were a TV show, it basically come across like Law and Order: Criminal Intent, CSI, and The Shield, only it takes place in Gotham City and have gothic overtones. The villains would be serial killers, kidnappers, organized crime members, drug dealers, crooked cops and politicians--plus his usual rogues on occassion. Batman, on the other hand, would take its cue from, not just the James Bond films, but also 24, in which the Dynamic Duo would not just fight their usual rogues but also terrorists, spies, international criminals, and non-metahuman supervillians.

3. Concerning love interests, he can never settle down. Catwoman is the one he loves, perhaps even sees from time to time, but deep down, they realize they cannot be together, even though it Selina wants to marry Bruce and wishes he would pop the question. Talia is now strictly Batman’s enemy, the heir to Ra’s Al Ghul--after Nyssa gets killed of course. She still loves Bruce, but feels that she must take revenge for the death of her father. Also, I’d bring back either Silver St. Cloud or Julie Madison in order to have a love triangle between one of them and Catwoman. It would be real interesting if Selina and Silver ever crossed paths.

4. I’d also bring back Gordon’s son and ex-wife. Basically, have it were Gordon attempts to reconcile with James Junior, wanting to make up for the time he hadn’t spent with him as a father. The son would have a chip on his shoulder, of course, but he’s basically an okay kid. Who knows, maybe if Tim Drake retires, he can always adopt the Robin mantle, although Batman would refuse to take him on as a partner, believing he does not want to endanger the son of the man he considers his friend--but James keeps tagging along.

5. I’d have an arc called “Who killed the Joker?” It would start with the Joker committing some elaborate crime, as usual; only this time, he ends up in a coma. Then, while in the hospital, somebody pulls the plug and kills him. Naturally, Batman becomes the prime suspect, but Bruce begins to wonder, and worries, whether or not Gordon did it. While Batman has to evade the police, clues will begin to pop-up and it would be revealed that not only is the Joker still alive, but that there have been TWO JOKERS FOR YEARS, just as there are two jokers in every deck of playing cards. Inspired by Two-Face, the Joker long ago decided to have a double since being the “Clown Prince of Crime” also meant he needed time to develop elaborate schemes. So he figured two heads were better than one, and the only one he could trust was himself. Remember how A.J. Lieberman seemed to have made the Joker’s “origin” from The Killing Joke official in Gotham Knights? Well that wasn’t the real Joker--that was Oliver Hamment. The real Joker killed Hamment’s wife, dipped him into the same chemical vat, and brainwashed him to the point that Hamment begin to think he was the real Joker. When one Joker was sent to Arkham, the other Joker would plan and prepare the next caper. It ended up working so well, neither of them could tell the other one apart. The real Joker even suggests to Batman “How can you be so sure I was the one who did all those terrible things like cripple Gordon’s daughter, killed his wife, or blew up Jason? Maybe it was the other guy? Maybe the real me died a long time ago.” Oh, and as for who killed the Joker’s double? Well, that would be telling.... :)

[NathanielEssex]

"The Shadow" and "The Wayner" said everything I wanted to say. And I love number 3 from "literally exaggerated's" list. I just wanted to add something: I prefer Batman to be a dick to the other super-heroes. Buncha cheeseballs! :D
Except for the humble ones. He should treat them with respect.


But he should never act the way he has against his "family." I would keep that from ever happening again if I was a writer. I view the Justice League as a group of co-workers, not necessarily as superfriends.

My 3/4 cent.

[Huh?]

1. His parents are really still alive.

2. Catwoman is actually a man.

3. Alfred is the Joker.

4. Batman's pedophilia is finally revealed. (boy wonder indeed!)

5. Only 2 bat books put out a month: Batman and Detective.

That oughta make things more exciting.

[IamtheRock3]

1) more Bruce Wayne

2) New villans updating the old

3) More Detective stuff

4) Get the man laid for crise sakes

5) Less mega crossover. Should be able to collect just one of his books and be good.

[EZMOHR]

Hey stillanerd....I love your idea for the Joker story. It sounds pretty cool.

[Patient Boy]

5. I’d have an arc called “Who killed the Joker?” It would start with the Joker committing some elaborate crime, as usual; only this time, he ends up in a coma. Then, while in the hospital, somebody pulls the plug and kills him. Naturally, Batman becomes the prime suspect, but Bruce begins to wonder, and worries, whether or not Gordon did it. While Batman has to evade the police, clues will begin to pop-up and it would be revealed that not only is the Joker still alive, but that there have been TWO JOKERS FOR YEARS, just as there are two jokers in every deck of playing cards. Inspired by Two-Face, the Joker long ago decided to have a double since being the “Clown Prince of Crime” also meant he needed time to develop elaborate schemes. So he figured two heads were better than one, and the only one he could trust was himself. Remember how A.J. Lieberman seemed to have made the Joker’s “origin” from The Killing Joke official in Gotham Knights? Well that wasn’t the real Joker--that was Oliver Hamment. The real Joker killed Hamment’s wife, dipped him into the same chemical vat, and brainwashed him to the point that Hamment begin to think he was the real Joker. When one Joker was sent to Arkham, the other Joker would plan and prepare the next caper. It ended up working so well, neither of them could tell the other one apart. The real Joker even suggests to Batman “How can you be so sure I was the one who did all those terrible things like cripple Gordon’s daughter, killed his wife, or blew up Jason? Maybe it was the other guy? Maybe the real me died a long time ago.” Oh, and as for who killed the Joker’s double? Well, that would be telling.... :)

I have to say I think that's really really good.

[Marc Spector]

Literally Exagerated hit all the points I want to make ( Except I see him more as James Bond/Thomas Crown), So I'll just expand a little.

1. No more Robins. Batman is a loner, and a solitary man. People like that don't like having teenage brats hanging around them. Send Timmy Drake off to Harvard, MIT or Dartmouth where he belongs. Or get him a job working for Google.

2. More Bruce Wayne. I want to see Bruce with some hobbies, like collecting works of art, playing polo. Or even stagging robbery heists (for fun--he would return the goods of course).


3. More corporate shenannigans, where he has to fight to save his company, and against hostile take overs. Oh and give him a real rival like Lex Luthor (or who Hush should have been in the first place) someone from his past who despises his Richie Rich upbringing and wants to destroy him.


4. More Detective work. Where he has to hunt down clues, and figure out, like on CSI.

5. Either a steady relationship or have him date a beavy of beauties. Bruce is a very charimatic and sexy man. He's the kind of man woman want to be with. So show him with women, and I don't just mean empty headed models who are good for a night in bed. They should be more than that, should be strong formidable and complex women, like the Bond girls.


I like all these suggestions.

People sometimes call Moon Knight too much of a Batman copy, but... at least he has a girlfriend. :D

[King Krypton]

1) Cut himself off from the rest of the superhero community and stay in Gotham with his Batfamily (Nightwing could be his representative in the JLA or something)

Haven't we seen enough of Batman being a cold fish to his JLA associates already?


5) Kill off Jim Gordon

Why? Just so we can be "kewl" and "edgy"? You don't throw away a key element of Batman just because you feel like it. You might as well erase Lois Lane from Superman while you're at it.

I just wanted to add something: I prefer Batman to be a dick to the other super-heroes. Buncha cheeseballs!

Haven't we had enough of Batman being unlikeable and belligerent for no reason? I don't want to read a book and wish Batman would get killed off in a gory and disgusting manner anymore.

He can disagree with his JLA partners. He can argue with them. But he should never mistreat them the way he has. And some of them, like Superman, should be some of his closest friends.

Batman: The Animated Series had the right idea: Batman and the “Bruce Wayne as billionaire playboy” are roles. Batman is the fear that criminals use to prey on the innocent reflected back at them and given form. Like a person who masters Akido, Bruce becomes Batman to “turn fear against those who use fear.” But the public face Bruce puts on is also a reflection: that what the public expects him to be--a spoiled, rich, incompetent, pretty boy whose only passions in life seem to be fast cars and fast women. Then of course there’s the real Bruce Wayne, the consummate professional, the detective, a man who respects those he cares about even if he keeps them at a distance, someone who seeks only to free his city from crime and to not let what happened to him happen to anyone else. And I’d make the writers of the Batman comics NOT forget this.

Agreed. But I'd amend this just slightly: Even though Batman sometimes keeps his loved ones at arm's length, they'd know he means no harm by it. They know he cares about them and they'd take it in stride. And they'd see enough of him expressing his feelings at other times to know he's not an uncaring jerk.

[NathanielEssex]

Waaayy off topic, but it's funny you mention this:

"wish Batman would get killed off in a gory and disgusting manner anymore."

Cuz that's the way I feel about Wolverine. Except twenty times worse. Oh. And humiliating. The character should get a humiliating, gory and disgusting death. The little biatch!

All right, vent over. On with the festivities. :D

[effang]

If I were in charge...

1. Jason Todd would still be dead
2. Everything from Murderer to present was a "bad dream"
3. I would try and reestablish some of Batman's lesser rogues and create some new ones
4. Shane McCarthy would be on a monthly Batman book
5. Jason Todd would still be dead!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hm...maybe i missed the memo, but when did jason todd come back from the dead? are you talking about...HUSH?

thanks

[EZMOHR]

hm...maybe i missed the memo, but when did jason todd come back from the dead? are you talking about...HUSH?

thanks


Jason Todd came back definetly in the recent Under The Hood story line in Batman. Also, get Batman Annual #25 to see how he really came back.

[David O Burcham]

The only changes that need to be made to Batman are his top tier adversaries:

1. Louie the Lilac

2. Marsha, Queen of Diamonds

3. Shame

4. King Tut

5. Egghead

Joker, Riddler, and Catwoman are pikers compared to these vile villains !!

[NathanielEssex]

Ah, but you're forgetting the paragon of villainy known as Chandel!
Liberace never looked so vile as he did there...

Also, Bookworm, Falseface, and the Minstrel should be regulars; one of them should maybe kill Hush to establish dominance in the Gotham underworld.

[stillanerd]

Hey stillanerd....I love your idea for the Joker story. It sounds pretty cool.
I have to say I think that's really really good.

Thanks guys. Of course, now that I've posted it with one of the big twists in the story... :o

Agreed. But I'd amend this just slightly: Even though Batman sometimes keeps his loved ones at arm's length, they'd know he means no harm by it. They know he cares about them and they'd take it in stride. And they'd see enough of him expressing his feelings at other times to know he's not an uncaring jerk.

Excellent point and something I forgot to emphazise. I remember issue #2 of The Untold Legend of Batman where Robin (Dick Grayson) tells Alfred what's the real difference between him and Batman "For me, crimefighting has always been an adventure, but for [Batman] it's a holy mission! Still, I suppose you can't blame the man. He's really known a lot of pain in his life." That's something I think only Batman's closest friends would understand about him, and its something that some writers have a tendency to forget in order to make Batman come across like a jerk. Well, so was Sherlock Holmes, but even he from time to time paid Watson the occassional compliment. Batman should do the same.

[monkeyjunkie]

1. Jason todd would be kept around, definetly not dead like it looks he might be after the last issue of batman and used as an Anti-batman character with similar goals but diffrent means.
2. Tim drake robin would be a full time PARTENER
3. More bruce wayne alter-ego time in the books
4. more detective work involved
5. Batman as one of the heroes not an outside hero

[Hellstormer]

1) Have Nightwing orRobin with him as partners
2) Have Selina give up crie and live at the manor
3) Bring more of the old Rogues back (I.E. Mr. Freeze, Scarecrow, Penquin, ect)
4) Show more of Bruce Wayne
5) Kill Jason....again

[MythicBrawn]

1. Couldn't say it loud enough: JASON TODD STAYS DEAD!!!

2. Have him start to move past his parents death. It is so not healthy that he still dwells on that. Even Peter Parker is not as obsessive with his Uncle Ben's death.

3. Chill him out with the excessive paranoia.

4. Start using more intelligence in eliminating some of the threats. Use the Bruce persona and excessive resources to bring down some of the corruption that can't be attacked with his fists.

5. Give him some upgrades. I know people like that he is a normal human doing what he does, but it makes no sense that he doesn't enhance himself in some ways. It doesn't have to be a suit of armor, but some of the things that Batman Beyond could do wouldn't hurt.

[Joe Acro]

I don't need five. I only need one. What is needed within current comic book universes is a sacrifice--some big-name character dying and staying dead. We used to have such characters. But, due to change in editorship, people like Hal Jordan and Oliver Queen just come back. I say that Batman could serve the purpose of which I speak.

[SpartanX]

6. James Ellroy and Bryan Hitch on Detective Comics
7. Ed Brubaker and Jim Lee on Batman
You just read my mind man. :eek:

[Young Avenger]

5. I’d have an arc called “Who killed the Joker?” It would start with the Joker committing some elaborate crime, as usual; only this time, he ends up in a coma. Then, while in the hospital, somebody pulls the plug and kills him. Naturally, Batman becomes the prime suspect, but Bruce begins to wonder, and worries, whether or not Gordon did it. While Batman has to evade the police, clues will begin to pop-up and it would be revealed that not only is the Joker still alive, but that there have been TWO JOKERS FOR YEARS, just as there are two jokers in every deck of playing cards. Inspired by Two-Face, the Joker long ago decided to have a double since being the “Clown Prince of Crime” also meant he needed time to develop elaborate schemes. So he figured two heads were better than one, and the only one he could trust was himself. Remember how A.J. Lieberman seemed to have made the Joker’s “origin” from The Killing Joke official in Gotham Knights? Well that wasn’t the real Joker--that was Oliver Hamment. The real Joker killed Hamment’s wife, dipped him into the same chemical vat, and brainwashed him to the point that Hamment begin to think he was the real Joker. When one Joker was sent to Arkham, the other Joker would plan and prepare the next caper. It ended up working so well, neither of them could tell the other one apart. The real Joker even suggests to Batman “How can you be so sure I was the one who did all those terrible things like cripple Gordon’s daughter, killed his wife, or blew up Jason? Maybe it was the other guy? Maybe the real me died a long time ago.” Oh, and as for who killed the Joker’s double? Well, that would be telling.... :)

That sounds awesome. You should try to pitch that idea to DC.

[NathanielEssex]

Stillanerd, you should write for DC!!!! You= :cool:

[jwd]

1. (Insert villian name) stories limited to 1 a year. So no Joker appearance in Batman, Gotham Knights and 3 minis at once. Its overkill. It'd be overkill if any villain appears that often.

2. Bruce Wayne appears more and has a supporting cast surrounding him - Lucius Fox, etc

3. Steph is alive and the current Batgirl.

4. All non-superpowered heroes with the exception of Batman, Robin and Batgirl are out of Gotham City. Visiting sometimes is cool but I'd prefer the city be limited in terms of how many non-super powered people there are.

5. Only really good stories are written. All bad stories are wiped from continuity. :)

[Totoro Man]

#1. I'd have three specifically targeted Bat-titles to explore different aspects of the Bat-mythos.

[not everybody wants Robin in the picture, and other folks can't live without him. as an editor you need to recognize these divergent customer interests. if we only pander to certain limited strata of the fanboy spectrum we're going to lose a lot of readers. a lot of people hate "the Batman" cartoon--but the fact remains that most of the complaints are from purists and fanboys. it's the same with the 'Animated Teen Titans" aka "Teen Titans Go!" series on Cartoon Network. there have been writing problems, continuity erros, and so forth... but it's aimed at friggin children! to put it another way, don't say "Blues Clues", "Gargoyles", or "Kim Possible" are terrible shows because you're not part of the target audience! I'm amazed at how people can categorically write off a show that was never intended to amuse -them- in the first place. just because you don't like it doesn't mean it "sucks". hell, I despise the music of Richard Wagner and most of the works of Ludwig van Beethoven--but this doesn't mean they were incompetent jackasses! :rolleyes: ]

back on subject... the three basic titles would be as follows:

A. Batman: detective oriented work, as many others have already suggested. this is where Batman basically works on his own... with very little or no outside help. somewhere between "Batman: the Animated Series" (volume 1) and "Batman Begins". he could have Alfred and Lucius Fox as backup, but basically it would be him doing all the work. a LOT of people insist on Batman as this demented, quasi-psychotic loner and resent the very existence of Robin. it must be recognized, however, that after Robin showed up MORE people started picking up the title... so there IS a time and a place for Batman to have a cheesy sidekick

B. Batman and Robin: we'd have another title that works with a larger group of characters. it's simple, I guess, you'd have a title that says it all. the other title is JUST BATMAN and this title would have an extended Bat-family. there'd be more flexibility with the stories and villians, probably.

C. Legends of the Dark Knight: basically, a third title where continuity doesn't mean anything... where the emphasis is on good stories and characterization. they could be with just Batman, or even with a larger cast.

[more might be on the way, but that's the first thing I could think of. have each title operate independently of each other. I shouldn't have to buy four different titles to follow one friggin story arc!]

[the goddamn batman]

thats not a bad idea at all, one minor problem. Detective Comics.

Can't cancel TEC. Can't have it be anybody other than Batman.

Other than that it's a great idea. :)

[Mon-el]

Their is only 1 change I would ever want to make with Batman.

1.) Created by Bob Kane and Bill Finger.

[Oggy]

1) Without question I would make Batman human again. As someone mentioned Dick Grayson saying, crime fighting is a holy mission for Bruce. Make him human, make him sometimes frustrated and complex when trying to solve a crime. On the streets, sure, he's unbending, but once in a while stump him on a case. Making everything too easy for him takes away some of the fun of the character being "only human". It never hurts every once in a while to make him fall, make him stumble, make him grieve and pick himself back up. In addition, he should no longer use his parents death as a reason and a crutch, but as a source of strength. Get over his parents death, and when he has moments where he's struggling, remember them and draw strength from it.

2) This is part of part one but bring the supporting cast back into a significant role. The big three comics as I call them, Batman, Superman and Spiderman are so popular not just because of action and the hero, but because of the characters supporting that hero. Even people who don't know comics know Lois Lane, Perry White, Jimmy Olson, J. Jonah Jameson, Lex Luthor, Aunt May, Alfred and Gordon as much as they know Peter Parker, Clark Kent and Bruce Wayne. how many non-comic book readers could tell you what Captain America's real name is. That's because these three are the icons of the industry, and they were made so by the characters that supported them. Bring back Leslie and make War crimes never happen. Make Gordon the Commish again and make Alfred do what he does best and support Bruce behind the scenes. There are too many great characters that are under used that have nothing to do with fighting crime but are a source of motivation for these characters.

3) I agree with other posters as well, two Bat books is all you need, Detective and Batman. Books like Nightwing, Birds of Prey and Catwoman should still continue, but they are their own books. Robin should appear and Batman, and Detective needs to be Batman's solo stories. Additionally, keep stories seperate from each other. If a great arch is happening in Detective, there's no reason to carry it over to Batman or Nightwing to find out what happens just to make more sales, that cheapens the story as far as I'm concerned. Regarding the JLA, I think Batman should resign his position for Nightwing (even though Dick is in the new Outsiders), besides, Oracle is a great support character for them.

4) Make Batman the urban myth again. I like that he's something to be feared and that everyone debates his existence, its better for the character that he's someone who works from the shadows. Though being kind isn't a bad thing either. Like Batman Begins, him throwing that device to the kid, a nice gesture, even though he didn't say anything to him. It says he can still be intimidating without sacrificing his humanity.

5) Romance. I think Bruce Wayne should have a girlfriend, but Batman should not. Those two identities need to be kept seperate, and he even if he's only playing the act, he should try to have some fun. Any person, doing what he does with the issues he has would have had a mental breakdown long ago. Give him some time to relax. Go on a double date with Clark and Lois, it'd be plausible too if they passed it off as a story for the Daily Planet. Also, I think Bruce/Batman should have more battles with Lex Luthor. Those two are better suited advasaries than Superman/Luthor IMO.

[bannermanonemillion]

1) Dick Greyson doesn't become Robin until about 16. He's adopted around age 8 by Bruce Wayne but Bruce won't let Dick become a sidekick until Bruce trains the crap out of him. The years that follow are not just training but a chance for them to bond as father and son. Bruce grows and matures as a person while teaching a still-angry Dick that what he does is not about revenge. Dick learns to accept this new father figure in his life and takes to the various aspects of crimefighting (HTH, detective work, strategy) like a fish to water. By the time he's Robin he's the polished professional we expect to lead the Teen Titans and survive the streets of Gotham.

2) Jason/Red Hood is revealed to be from an alternate reality where Bruce was killed by the Joker instead of him. RH is forced to go back to his home reality and our Jason (the one we voted to die) is still officially dead, and Bruce learns to move on.

3) Joker goes on a Punisher style killing spree against Batman's Rogues. First on the list: Hush.

4) Batman uses the god-level gadgets we only got hints of in Morrison's JLA. Does he use 'em all the time? Of course not. Bruce doesn't want to be too reliant on anything except his mind and body. High tech can fail but it's nice to have just in case.

5) Batman was mindwiped by the JLA in "Identity Crisis." However, Bruce doesn't build Brother Eye. Instead, once he learns about it he goes to Leaguers he knows he can trust starting with Superman. With Clark, Diana, and J'onn, Bruce takes the League to task (putting it mildly) for what happened.

[suprmn1982]

1) Detective Comic Would Go Back To It Roots And Feature Only Mystery Stories.

2)robin Would Be His Partner Regularly Maybe Not Every Issue Or Story But Definaly Every Other

3)batman And Superman Would Go Back To Being Like Brothers Or Best Friends

4)bruce Would Adopt Tim Drake As His Son

5)steady Creative Teams On Both Batman And Detective

[Chango]

It doesnt matter what Top5 changes you people pick because no matter what they do with Batman, there will ALWAYS be people who like and dislike certain things. If you really want to make changes, start writing, start drawing. :p

[suprmn1982]

Touche Chango Good Point But Just Because Your A Writer Or Artist Doesn't Mean And Thing Comics Are One Of The Hardest Industries To Get In To I'm An Artist And Trust Me I Know

[suprmn1982]

Their is only 1 change I would ever want to make with Batman.

1.) Created by Bob Kane and Bill Finger.
I AGREE 100% BILL FINGERS STORYS ARE SOME OF THE BEST BATMAN STORYS EVER TOLD

[handOFfate]

5. I’d have an arc called “Who killed the Joker?” It would start with the Joker committing some elaborate crime, as usual; only this time, he ends up in a coma. Then, while in the hospital, somebody pulls the plug and kills him. Naturally, Batman becomes the prime suspect, but Bruce begins to wonder, and worries, whether or not Gordon did it. While Batman has to evade the police, clues will begin to pop-up and it would be revealed that not only is the Joker still alive, but that there have been TWO JOKERS FOR YEARS, just as there are two jokers in every deck of playing cards. Inspired by Two-Face, the Joker long ago decided to have a double since being the “Clown Prince of Crime” also meant he needed time to develop elaborate schemes. So he figured two heads were better than one, and the only one he could trust was himself. Remember how A.J. Lieberman seemed to have made the Joker’s “origin” from The Killing Joke official in Gotham Knights? Well that wasn’t the real Joker--that was Oliver Hamment. The real Joker killed Hamment’s wife, dipped him into the same chemical vat, and brainwashed him to the point that Hamment begin to think he was the real Joker. When one Joker was sent to Arkham, the other Joker would plan and prepare the next caper. It ended up working so well, neither of them could tell the other one apart. The real Joker even suggests to Batman “How can you be so sure I was the one who did all those terrible things like cripple Gordon’s daughter, killed his wife, or blew up Jason? Maybe it was the other guy? Maybe the real me died a long time ago.” Oh, and as for who killed the Joker’s double? Well, that would be telling.... :)

i've been advocating this idea for years. Two Jokers would make so much more sense. The insane but criminally genius Joker of Knightfall and Infinite Crisis and the somewhat pathetic but still incredibly dangerous Joker of the Hush and Red Hood stories.