I Heart Marvel: masked intentions (spoilers)

[RabidWolfe]

Well, Squirrel got some lovin' (yay!) To bad her new beau is gonna be dead soon.....

But I feel badly for Justice and Firestar.

The scene was a bit ambiguous, but did Firestar just bang some random piece of beefcake? Firestar actually seemed out of character in this issue - her "immaturity" was played up a bit too much. She seemed more stable in the Avengers.

But i still enjoyed it, and overall it made sense.

Although Fabian Nicenzia did well with the Squirrel Girl tale, he ain't no Dan Slott. I would have liked it better if he hadn't tried to ape Slott's style so much.

[JDR]

I have to agree with you about the "out of character" Firestar - especially since she proposed to Vance in the first place! Some acknowledgment of that, and why she changed her mind, would have at least made her flakiness a bit more palatable.... But I don't think she slept with that guy, since her bed was empty (although the topless part was kind of strange, since she objected to mere cleavage on her Avengers costume) - Jupe the Hooch definitely got some, though. ;J
And I'm really disappointed that Fabe made such a drastic change in their relationship, especially since it won't be resolved anytime soon with them still hanging in limbo...

[boolean]

Didn't Justice used to be jewish?

[Giant Guy]

I am not sure if Vance is jewish or not, but he did do prison time at the vault for th emurder of his father.

[FabianNicieza]

I have to agree with you about the "out of character" Firestar - especially since she proposed to Vance in the first place! Some acknowledgment of that, and why she changed her mind, would have at least made her flakiness a bit more palatable.... But I don't think she slept with that guy, since her bed was empty (although the topless part was kind of strange, since she objected to mere cleavage on her Avengers costume) - Jupe the Hooch definitely got some, though. ;J
And I'm really disappointed that Fabe made such a drastic change in their relationship, especially since it won't be resolved anytime soon with them still hanging in limbo...

Uhm... CBR might need to have a little sit-down soft core porno class to teach the definition of the world "topless." Wearing a bra to bed does not qualify as topless. And either way, that was an artistic choice, not a request in my plot. I did ask for a stud to be in Jupe the Hooch's bed tho. ;-)

And I'm sorry you thot Angel was out of character, since I thot she was perfectly in character for the place in her life she currently finds herself in. She wants to be normal. Being married at 19 while still in college is not exactly "normal" in that it is not the prevalent majority societal norm.
Simple as that.
Notice she never says she never wants to get married to Vance, just that she's not ready yet. And Vance is ready now. Stalement. Bittersweet.

And considering this is EXACTLY where I planned to take their relationship over the course of time since way back when I... oh, created their relationship... then you'd understand why I don't perceive it as a radical change in their relationship in the least.

Actually, even taking their stint in Avengers into account, I find it a very natural progression for the two characters to take.

I can't be held responsible that other writers aren't using them in other titles. Given the course of time and tide, I would have been very interested in returning to explore these characters had I been given the opportunity. As it is, getting to write them now, I have to be true to my original and current creative intent and especially to who I know them to be.

I knew the story would disappoint a lot of readers (hopefully not in craft, but in subject matter), but I felt from the inception of this relationship, that it was the story to tell.

-- fabian

[riotgear]

Uhm... CBR might need to have a little sit-down soft core porno class to teach the definition of the world "topless." Wearing a bra to bed does not qualify as topless. And either way, that was an artistic choice, not a request in my plot. I did ask for a stud to be in Jupe the Hooch's bed tho. ;-)

And I'm sorry you thot Angel was out of character, since I thot she was perfectly in character for the place in her life she currently finds herself in. She wants to be normal. Being married at 19 while still in college is not exactly "normal" in that it is not the prevalent majority societal norm.
Simple as that.
Notice she never says she never wants to get married to Vance, just that she's not ready yet. And Vance is ready now. Stalement. Bittersweet.

And considering this is EXACTLY where I planned to take their relationship over the course of time since way back when I... oh, created their relationship... then you'd understand why I don't perceive it as a radical change in their relationship in the least.

Actually, even taking their stint in Avengers into account, I find it a very natural progression for the two characters to take.

I can't be held responsible that other writers aren't using them in other titles. Given the course of time and tide, I would have been very interested in returning to explore these characters had I been given the opportunity. As it is, getting to write them now, I have to be true to my original and current creative intent and especially to who I know them to be.

I knew the story would disappoint a lot of readers (hopefully not in craft, but in subject matter), but I felt from the inception of this relationship, that it was the story to tell.

-- fabian

Ah, Fabian, Fabian, why have you forsaken us?

Just kidding. ;) I'm not talking about how you wrote the story.

I want you writing Warriors monthly again!!! :(

[FabianNicieza]

Didn't Justice used to be jewish?


Vance is half-Jewish and not particularly religous either way. By going to a minister, he was just going along with her (and her father's) preference.

-- fabian

[Dark Soul # 7]

I just feel a little conflicted that this whole love theme thing that has shown so many love stories that have shown us the strength and feelings between some of Marvel´s best couples ends with a split up.
It´s like it put a dent in my belif for true love, to be dramatic.

[RabidWolfe]

See, this just makes me wish Fabian had never left the New Warriors.

ah, well.....

[Dermie]

I have to agree with you about the "out of character" Firestar - especially since she proposed to Vance in the first place!

Yes and no. Firestar was the one to say the words "will you marry me", but Vance was the first one to say that they would get married LONG before Firestar ever brought it up. In NW #26, Firestar wanted to make love to Vance, and he said no because their first time was going to be on the day they got married--so although he didn't actually say the words "will you marry", to me, that qualifies as an unofficial proposal.

As for the time Angel proposed, one needs to consider the circumstances at the time--Angel had discovered that her microwave radiation was harming her body, possibly rendering her sterile. She was freaked out about that, and had said a few issues earlier that they might have to speed-up some of their long-term plans. Angel proposing to Vance then was as much a reaction to her health problems as it was about her love for him.
Once Firestar got that problem fixed by Hank Pym, the need became less urgent, and she (and Vance) seemed content to have a longer engagement.

But I don't think she slept with that guy, since her bed was empty

Exactly. Firestar may not be ready for marriage--but I don't see her cheating on Vance.

[JDR]

As for the time Angel proposed, one needs to consider the circumstances at the time.... Angel proposing to Vance then was as much a reaction to her health problems as it was about her love for him.
Once Firestar got that problem fixed by Hank Pym, the need became less urgent, and she (and Vance) seemed content to have a longer engagement.

Actually, that makes a lot of sense, taking into account the character progression under Busiek. I guess it's a credit to the writing that while I was reading, it felt like I was picking up NW right where it left off in 1995 - and in that regard it seemed a bit of an uncharted direction.

And Fabian, I never said it was your fault that they've been in limbo, or that you've no right to take them in this direction (and yes, I remember you created them - thanks, btw!) - just that I was personally disappointed in the plot direction (which, taking place in one issue, hadn't gradually developed as you'd wished, and seemed sudden). You yourself acknowledged that the content would disappoint readers - just count me among them. I did think it was a great story ("in craft"), and would give anything to have you writing them regularly again....

But I still maintain that top off = without top = top-less (and yes, different than buck nekkid). But that's from an average woman's perspective, having not taken the CBR soft-core porno class. ;J

[FabianNicieza]

But I still maintain that top off = without top = top-less (and yes, different than buck nekkid). But that's from an average woman's perspective, having not taken the CBR soft-core porno class. ;J

Well, we'll need to talk with Dave at CBR about scheduling those classes.

Trust me, from an average man's standpoint, top-less means sans ANY kind of top or top-like trappings. ;-)

-- fabian

[mattbib]

But I still maintain that top off = without top = top-less (and yes, different than buck nekkid). But that's from an average woman's perspective, having not taken the CBR soft-core porno class. ;JYeah...no, you're wrong. Topless means a bare top. Hence topless beaches. They don't wear bikini tops, or bras, on topless beaches. It's bare breasts.

Anyway, as much as I would have loved Vance and Angel to have gotten married now, I totally find Angel's trepidation believable. I'm also happy that Fabian didn't really "conclude" anything. Maybe they'll stay together. Maybe they WILL get married eventually. Who knows. It'll be nice to find out someday. It's like a classic will-they-or-won't-they episode of Moonlighting or something. Just not funny. When Moonlighting was funny.

Maybe Vance can be picked up elsewhere? Join the New Avengers or something. Give Angel time; see where things go.

[JDR]

Well, at nude beaches the top-layer is only the bikini, so of course removing it leaves bare breasts as the result... but you'll be hard pressed to find many women who consider just their bra to be their "top". But I'm not going to argue this further, since we're obviously coming from very different personal experiences, and it's just semantics.

I probably should have said "shirtless" - the whole lame point is, I found it hard to believe a character that flipped out over a little cleavage in her costume (in Avengers) had no problem passing out in her skivvies with a bunch of strange men in the room. She's almost been prudish in previous characterizations, so that's what I found the most jarring... but such is the effect of freshman year, I guess.

[Gaz]

Fabian, I have only one thing to say about this issue "THANK YOU!!!!". Squirrel Girl's practically the main character (yeah, yeah, those Avenging Warrior kids, Just Ice and Flamesun or whatever...) and that's the way things should be.
And I totally disagree that you were aping Dan, just following his lead. (Hell,he's the writer who's written her most, he should have some influence, right?:D)
And of course Tippy Toe ain't gonna let her galpal be disappointed.:p
Now, just have her show up in Cable & Deadpool, maybe kicking Wade's booty so bad he starts to like her-like her, and I'll never ask you for anything again. Not even those topless photos.

[Will.S]

I bought this and the Spiderman heart book since they had the best art and premise to me.

The Squirrel Girl/Speedball story was kind of cute and almost read pretty much like a Dan Slott GLA book so the consistency was there. It makes the sucky feeling of losing Speedball to Civil War all the more since he's gaining more exposure again (New Warriors, MTU, Civil War, and this title).

The second part with Justice and Firestar was pretty good as well although it had a more somber way of dealing with their relationship. Hopefully they'll continue their relationship under less strained terms in another future book or at least, a writer like Fabian keeps up with their relationship.

I loved both Paco and Mike Norton's art on both since they fit pretty much perfectly and Mike really captured the NY look and feel with Justice's battle with Whirlwind on the bridge and the ESU locations.

[NormanB]

This was a stellar book.

Great job Fabian and company!

[unkiedev]

I picked this book up after reading all the praise here on this board. GOOD STUFF!

Squirrel-girl is a bunch of fun. I've never gotten into GLA, but this was a good time. I agree, Will S., about Speedball. I always liked him, and now there is more reason too.

I picked up the supervillian romance book too, mostly because it had Ruby Tuesday of the Head-Man. It was good, too! I liked the Answer, never heard of him before...he's kinda a cross between "the Riddler" and bullseye.