Hellboy: Makoma #2 discussion (spoilers!)

[hellboyone]

Anyone? It came out today. I think we got gypped on seeing a full-on Corben girl but it was still pretty good. :)

This was a fun story all around. And there are some great Hellboy poses by Corben in this issue. I totally forgot that the issue would end with some Mignola pages so that was a nice surprise.

R.

[Hellcow]

In so many ways, I'm still just as dissapointed as I was with issue #1.

It feels watered down to me. It has that "diet" artificial sweetner feel that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I read The Corpse and The Island straight after Makoma as therapy. I felt better again. I think I've recovered.... until next time.

[InAdia]

I loved it. I think Makoma ranks up there with any of the previous Hellboy stories. It was slightly ambiguous, which is what I like about HB, and it was part comedic, another quality I enjoy in these books. Did anyone chuckle at the last page? I sort of did. A great read overall, can't wait for the next adventure.

The Real Inadia

[el seth]

I thought it was goddamn fantastic.

Questions: does this mean that the Ogdru Jahad was at one point in the distant passed released on Earth? Is the purpose of the mummy's tale to prepare Hellboy for a similar set of trials in his future? What is the relationship with the witch Makoma sleeps with at the end of days and Hecate with her similar pronouncements about herself and Hellboy?

Anyway, it was awesome.

[Gary_B]

I really enjoyed the story. That old mummy sure spins a good yarn.

Corben's art still doesn't work for me. There were some frames that I thought were beautiful - such as the drawing of the huge rhino representing Africa - but many that I didn't like. Mike, Scott, Dave and crew all seem honoured to have worked with him and I respect that but I'm glad it was just a two comic story.

[Tad]

I enjoyed the story but miss the graphic density that's in most Hellboy stories and yet the amount of space felt right for the story. It felt firmly place in Mike's world of folklore and yet I can't reimagine it with Mike's art. That may be a testament to the way Corben illustrated the story or of how Mike wrote it with Corben in mind.

I thought the last two pages were hilarious.

[Mist the Soul-Gatherer]

I thought it was goddamn fantastic.

Questions: does this mean that the Ogdru Jahad was at one point in the distant passed released on Earth? Is the purpose of the mummy's tale to prepare Hellboy for a similar set of trials in his future? What is the relationship with the witch Makoma sleeps with at the end of days and Hecate with her similar pronouncements about herself and Hellboy?

Anyway, it was awesome.
BIG SPOILERS-BE WARNED!!!

Great questions, el seth. Some of the things that show up in Makoma II tie in with the Third Wish and The Island. Except that it's on little stilts, Mohlomi's house in Third Wish 1 looks almost identical to the witch's house in Makoma. I don't think Mohlomi and the witch are the same person, but they both have interesting ways to transcend time. Mohlomi was said to be dead for 200 years, yet he seems very much alive. The witch is like the life cycle-she can transform into a young woman, middle aged woman and old crone. Which raises interesting questions about what is life and what is death, how magic works between the two, and what side of the veil you happen to be on.

We also find out that the animals who spoke to HB in Third Wish could be the same ones who speak with Makoma-they look very much alike. If they are, then HB was warned by the spirits of the great chiefs of Africa, long departed, and angry that HB is in some way responsible for the eminent destructon of their land. Very different from the way they speak to Makoma.

"does this mean that the Ogdru Jahad was at one point in the distant passed released on Earth?"

At one point in the distant past, the Ogdru Jahad was released on earth. In the Island 2 the Evil Priest tells the story of the history of the world. One of the Watchers raised his hand and created the Ogdru Jahad out of the fire he took from the air and mud. That same Watcher raises his hand again. The sentence trails off. One interpretation is that the Watcher was able to imprision the Odgru Jahad, perhaps after a battle. A different outcome than in Makoma. But the other Watchers turn against him and kill him. So the end result is the same. Very interesting that the other Watchers "struck him to pieces and saw all those pieces consumed.." Except his right hand. That's exactly what the Bog Roosh wanted to do to HB. After Makoma dies, the Mummy collects his bones and, yes, the hammer. The hammer in his right hand remained intact.

"What is the relationship with the witch Makoma sleeps with at the end of days and Hecate with her similar pronouncements about herself and Hellboy?"

That's a good one to contemplate, because the situations aren't parallel.The witch seems to act with kindness and generosity, so it's easy to say that sleeping with Makoma was a gift to the great hero on his last night on earth. But she is part of the Master Plan. She directed Makoma to bring her the bag. New life, including new human life came out of the bag, which could be symbolic of the union between man and woman. You could get very philosophical with what the boy represents. The witch says "he is the life you gave back to the world. Years ago he was possessed by a fire demon...you reached down his throat and took the demon out. You saved him. He will go on and live..." In one sense, that is what HB did to himself. He removed the demon he was supposed to be and gave his life to the world by the path he chose. Possibly part of him will die, but part of him will live on, perhaps as a more normal human being, or perhaps in another plane of existance.

As to what this means for HB's future, the following is just my interpretation, and what's great about Mike's stories, is they are so rich that many meanings are possible and valid.

There are many myths about the individual who sacrifices himself so life can be reborn. Whether it's the cycle of crops in the field, the creation of a new world, or a spiritual rebirth, the story is told and retold. Makoma is one of them. In experiencing that myth as Makoma, HB is given a glimpse into what could be. They are both very much alike. When the Mummy in Makoma I says "Africa knew you then." (In '47) "She knows you still." How can that be, if HB never went back? My feeling is "she knows you" through the essence of the hero-that quality that Makoma and HB both have-not that he is saying HB and Makoma are one and the same person.

It's important to the Mummy that he tell HB this story-he wants him to know. By being shown a possible path and its outcome, HB may be able to choose another path. After all, he never does the expected. And I don't think Mike will give away years of incredible stories by giving us the ending now.

What fascinates me the most are the panels beginning with the words ..."and they fell together." ending with the tight frame on Makoma's face. There are no cuts or blood shown on HB, and that's consistant with the scene where Makoma falls to earth. Did Mike intend for HB to be bloodied and we should just know that after this great battle he would be, so when we see Makoma in the wide frame it's as if he never took part in the battle, or are we seing HB in the wide frame as everyone in the story saw him, and Makoma resumes his identity in the close-up?

Great stuff. Congratulations to Mike and Richard Corben.
H

[Brisco]

Thanks for sharing some very interesting points, Mist!

Another great issue. The last page of Makoma #2 was very hilarious.

Like Rick, I was also caught by (pleasant) surprise when it went back to Mignola art at the end. I knew it was coming, but still wasn't expecting it.

The whole time I was reading each issue, I kept thinking, "What's with this Makoma business? Why not just adapt the story outright and use Hellboy INSTEAD of Makoma, like he replaced Tam O'Whatsisname in The Corpse?" But then in the end Mr. Mike cleared that up very nicely, and raised a lot of interesting questions, most of which Mist delves into above. Very interesting. And it seems to have been a bit more important a story in the overall Hellboy mythos than we were led to believe. HB's first confrontation with the Dragon? (Even if Hellboy wasn't Hellboy?) BIG.

Not big, though? HB's hand. I'm surprised Mignola let Corben draw it so small. Great issue, though.

Brisco

[Ken O]

Fun story and the pay off at the end was completely worth the price of admission. I liked this more then the Island. It was fun, Hellboy hasn't had a chance to just be fun with the epicness of his own story.

[Hellcow]

I thought the Island was fun.

[Ken O]

I thought the Island was fun.

That's cool, if everyone had the same tastes the world would be boring. I thought the begining of the Island (drinking with skeletons) was fun, but I thought the second half was like having a giant chunk of history fall on you. Intresting and a good read, just wasn't fun to me.

[Neil Hill]

As always, great comments Mist. You and several other of the ladies tend to break things down in such succint and easy to understand terms. :)

Loved the issue and the series! I echo many of the other praises presented in this Thread so far. Great stuff and I'd like to see more stuff like this in the future. :D

[Mist the Soul-Gatherer]

As always, great comments Mist. You and several other of the ladies tend to break things down in such succint and easy to understand terms. :)

Loved the issue and the series! I echo many of the other praises presented in this Thread so far. Great stuff and I'd like to see more stuff like this in the future. :D

Thanks Stygian! I was waiting to see if anybody else besides el seth brought up the question of what relationship Makoma has to the rest of the Hellboy universe. Is it just a fun diversion, or is there something important here that's like a prologue to Darkness Calls. Again, this is merely my opinion, but two important themes that are dominant throughout Makoma are Purpose and Transformation. Makoma comes into his world knowing his purpose. Right at the beginning he says, "I am not come among you to be a teacher, but to deliver you from evil powers." Until the end of Conquerer Worm, HB didn't want to know his purpose. Only in The Third Wish 1 & 2 and The Island 1 & 2 does he begin to become aware. Awareness leads to Transformation, as knowledge makes you different than you were before.
In Makoma, transformation begins in the crocodile pool and continues as Makoma shows mercy to his enemies rather than doing what the old woman told him-"Take this {bag} and fill it with the bones of your enemies." The singing dead transform into decomposing corpses. The land transforms into a wasteland of dried bones as all living things in the world are destroyed. The old woman transforms back and forth into a young, middle aged and old woman, symbolizing a life cycle that is fluid, rather than linear. Hellboy transforms. Fighting the dragon in the cloud-like mist that transforms them into another state of being, his red color becomes paler, as does the black of the dragon, until HB is a light salmon color, and then, the big Mystery-we don't know if HB falls and is transformed back into the real Makoma, or he stays in the cloud, transformed into another kind of life form. Or did he just wake up from his trance-like dream. And, of course, the world is transfomed back again to a new beginning. So, I think thematically, Makoma is a warm-up for HB discovering his true purpose and how he will be transformed.
H

[kid cthulhu]

You make so many excellent points Mist, it makes my head swim. Love it.

Scott Allie definitely poses the question in the back of Makoma #2 about what this story has to do with the larger arc of HB's life. I think you've hit the nail on the head!

[Maija]

Thanks for the analysis, Mist. You raise some interesting connections and parallels.

I had my reservations about this two-parter mostly because of Corben's art, and while I can't say I loved the art (like Sir Edward, there were several frames that I found lacking) it carried the story well... and what a story! The connections to the secret origins of the world that we've heard so far cannot be ignored. This is a pretty significant bit of Hellboy lore, even if it's not really a Hellboy story.

This is the other thing that allowed me to accept the art—I didn't read it as really being a Hellboy story. I got the impression that the mummy wasn't just telling the story in 1993, but taking Hellboy back to his memory of the first time he heard the story—in the week he was lost in 1947, but which he has now forgotten. So I read it as 1993 Hellboy regressing to the memory of young Hellboy in 1947 playfully imagining himself as the hero Makoma as the story is being told to him by the spirits of Africa (and those spirits recognize that he is destined to be a similar hero, so it's not wrong for Hellboy to project himself on the hero Makoma, and in fact educational). But Hellboy was never Makoma. It's just a story as envisioned in the head of an imaginative little demon as it is told to him by spirits and mummies. So it's not a Hellboy story. And in little Hellboy's head, it might look like Corben art. ;)

I think if the script was exactly the same but with Mignola art thoughout it would be incredibly confusing.

The colour transitions on the Mignola pages in and out of the dream are great. Those green pages are delicious.

And that last page cracked me up. Especially if you hear the narrator in your head as Patrick Stewart.

[el seth]

Nice points, Mist.

"does this mean that the Ogdru Jahad was at one point in the distant passed released on Earth?"
At one point in the distant past, the Ogdru Jahad was released on earth. In the Island 2 the Evil Priest tells the story of the history of the world. One of the Watchers raised his hand and created the Ogdru Jahad out of the fire he took from the air and mud. That same Watcher raises his hand again. The sentence trails off. One interpretation is that the Watcher was able to imprison the Odgru Jahad, perhaps after a battle. A different outcome than in Makoma. But the other Watchers turn against him and kill him. So the end result is the same. Very interesting that the other Watchers "struck him to pieces and saw all those pieces consumed.." Except his right hand. That's exactly what the Bog Roosh wanted to do to HB. After Makoma dies, the Mummy collects his bones and, yes, the hammer. The hammer in his right hand remained intact.
Yeah, my impression in Third Wish was that, in fact, the Ogdru Jahad was imprisoned right away. I suppose that you could say there was an intermediary part there where they were "unleashed..." but on what? If I recall the Earth or Universe or whatever was essentially barren at that point so it couldn't really do any significant damage to any humans or animals or whatever, so it seems to me like there must have been some other point in the past where the Big 7 got to have a party and tear shit up that we've never heard about, which is both interesting and strange that we haven't heard about it. Then again, if a "new world" truly does spring up from the ashes of the old every time this happens, is it really a surprise that nothing would survive? Unless there's some circular time-travel strangeness, which Mike has shown he's totally into using i.e. Abe's "origin."

I also like Corban and Mike's portrayal of The Dragon - notice all 7 sven heads are unique, something I feel Mike did intentionally to play up the aspect of Evil as being chaotic or without unity. Something that separates them from the movie version.

What fascinates me the most are the panels beginning with the words ..."and they fell together." ending with the tight frame on Makoma's face. There are no cuts or blood shown on HB, and that's consistent with the scene where Makoma falls to earth. Did Mike intend for HB to be bloodied and we should just know that after this great battle he would be, so when we see Makoma in the wide frame it's as if he never took part in the battle, or are we seeing HB in the wide frame as everyone in the story saw him, and Makoma resumes his identity in the close-up?
Yeah, nice catch there. Are you saying that "... and they fell together" can be applied not only to HB and the Dragon, but HB and the Dragon and Makoma? I think the idea is that HB is living the experience along with Makoma, but it's incredibly powerful to see Makoma for the first time, with his face and eye bloody.

You could get very philosophical with what the boy represents. The witch says "he is the life you gave back to the world. Years ago he was possessed by a fire demon...you reached down his throat and took the demon out. You saved him. He will go on and live..." In one sense, that is what HB did to himself. He removed the demon he was supposed to be and gave his life to the world by the path he chose. Possibly part of him will die, but part of him will live on, perhaps as a more normal human being, or perhaps in another plane of existence.
Nice catch. I'm inclined to agree with you.

That's a good one to contemplate, because the situations aren't parallel.The witch seems to act with kindness and generosity, so it's easy to say that sleeping with Makoma was a gift to the great hero on his last night on earth. But she is part of the Master Plan. She directed Makoma to bring her the bag. New life, including new human life came out of the bag, which could be symbolic of the union between man and woman.
Well, I think it's like you say interesting because the characters are so different, but I'm not so certain they are. Hecate is without compassion, and sort of operates on the pagan-goddess level of morality that Hellboy understandably finds repulsive. But is the witch a better person by our standards? Will Hecate show any less compassion for HB when they meet at the end of times? Hard to say. One thing I think you touched on earlier is Hellboy's compassion. The witch directs Hellboy/Makoma to fill the bag with the bones of his enemies. Instead, he makes his enemies his friends. If he had done as she instructed (although he would eventually fill the bag with their bones) the world would have been lost. Did the witch know this was to be the case, or was she like the giants and the world transformed by Hellboy/Makoma's basic humanity? Could Hecate, to be blunt, end up being less of a bitch by the end of the series? Again, hard to say. Obviously, she's pretty bad now.

One of my favorite things about this story is that it takes Hellboy's basic personality, his semi-goofy matter of fact humanity, and makes it essentially responsible for the existence/survival of the world. Why is there something instead of nothing? Because Hellboy loved those giants, and they loved him back.


So, I think thematically, Makoma is a warm-up for HB discovering his true purpose and how he will be transformed.
I agree! :D

[Mist the Soul-Gatherer]

Great Commentary, el seth!

Quote-
Well, I think it's like you say interesting because the characters are so different, but I'm not so certain they are. Hecate is without compassion, and sort of operates on the pagan-goddess level of morality that Hellboy understandably finds repulsive. But is the witch a better person by our standards? Will Hecate show any less compassion for HB when they meet at the end of times? Hard to say. One thing I think you touched on earlier is Hellboy's compassion. The witch directs Hellboy/Makoma to fill the bag with the bones of his enemies. Instead, he makes his enemies his friends. If he had done as she instructed (although he would eventually fill the bag with their bones) the world would have been lost. Did the witch know this was to be the case, or was she like the giants and the world transformed by Hellboy/Makoma's basic humanity? Could Hecate, to be blunt, end up being less of a bitch by the end of the series? Again, hard to say. Obviously, she's pretty bad now.-Quote

You've raised some key questons. As to the witch, the structure of the Makoma story is the Quest-the hero goes out on a long journey to find something and meets all kinds of obstacles along the way that put him to the test. When the witch tells him to fill the bag with bones, her facial expression changes from a nice little old lady to an evil looking hag. We never see her look that way again. It could be her directive is a test, trying to bring out the demonic side of HB/Makoma. By not doing as he was told, HB passes the test and learns mercy and compassion.

Your coments about Hecate got me thinking. She's got problems on a lot of levels. Physically, she starts out half-snake, then gets imprisioned in the Iron Maiden. She went from bad to worse because she didn't learn what she needs to know. She hasn't a clue how to handle HB. As a result, he "kills" her, forcing her to survive in the Iron Maiden. And she doesn't have the sense of Free Will to believe things don't have to be as preordained. So that boxes her in-literally and figuratively. At the end of The Island, she stands alone, watching HB sail away-beating the odds again, doing what he shouldn't have been able to do. Is she learning anything about HB and Free Will that can transform her?

"Could Hecate, to be blunt, end up being less of a bitch by the end of the series?"
You might very well be right.... :confused:

[Petersen]

I think the last panel just invites there to be a series of one-shots of Bruttenholm & young HB globetrotting and looking for mythic artifacts

[Myron L]

I loved the way this story played out....some things that struck me...

All religions have a mythos of some sort about the creation of the world and humanity as we know it...it seems that this story has some of that flavor to it (i.e., the Ogdru Jahad/Makoma battle and the symbolic re-birth of humanity from the bag. Again , referencing my post about Ish #1...the elements of creation we released from the bag to re-create the world as it is. This also alludes to the upcoming "end" Hellboy will face and how life consists of endless cycles as history repeats itself.

Also cool, was the semi-biblical "plague of locusts" battle in the desert.

Lastly, not to sound like a perv, but did anyone pick up on the image at the bottom of the page where Hellboy/Makoma is laying in the bed, as the witch goes to blow out the candle, the very last panel on the page is meant to be an outside shot of the hut, with bones scattered in front, the back drop is nightfall...but to me, I saw a very phallic symbol, with the dark shape in the top left corner of the panel being the lips of the witch...if memory serves me, Mr. corben was always good at hiding such images in his art....go back and look and tell me if I'm just seeing things...

All in all a GREAT read at all levels !

[kid cthulhu]

I think the last panel just invites there to be a series of one-shots of Bruttenholm & young HB globetrotting and looking for mythic artifacts

I absolutely love that last page. If Mike ever has that one available to buy, there's gonna be a feeding frenzy! Your idea for a series of one-shot is a great one, Petersen.

I also have to say that this second issue really raised my enjoyment of this short series. I think Corben's art is much better this go-round, and the story drew me in much more than the first. Wish I had time to actually dig in and sound off about all of the analogies and metaphors taking place here, but as I only have internet at the university right now, my free time on the computer is pretty limited. Some very interesting points being made here all around.

[Maija]

I think the last panel just invites there to be a series of one-shots of Bruttenholm & young HB globetrotting and looking for mythic artifactsYES!!


"at least 10 characters"...arglebarglearrrgle...

[Waffles]

I got to the comic shop and it was completly gone. It'll be a couple of weeks before they get it in again. Oh, but they have like a freakin' row of IC 5! Can't order a few more of the good comic because space needs to be made for the hyped crap. Bah! :mad:

[Neil Hill]

I think the last panel just invites there to be a series of one-shots of Bruttenholm & young HB globetrotting and looking for mythic artifacts

I third this request! I'd want to see it drawn by an artist who can handle young Hellboy in an interesting way though. Someone like let's say, Eric Powell!! :)

When I was at WonderCon Eric was sketching young HB for my buddy Nick in his sketchbook, and it reminded of of just how much I like Eric's version of that character. Personally, I'd rather see Mike Mignola illustrate a series of "Broom" and young HB adventure stories, but in lew of that, I'll take Eric any day of the week.

[Petersen]

I would imagine the book to focus more on Trevor and (pardon the parallel refrence) make young HB like a Short-round to Trevor's Indy

[Maija]

That would be a cool angle. I must agree with Stygian too, though. Eric Powell does a great young Hellboy. It's the only reason I own Weird Tales Vol 1.

A series of young Hellboy stories by Eric Powell would be sweet. It's not just how he draws, but also how he's able to tell a story of a young boy's hijinks with a retro horror slant.

[morna]

I don't suppose you could post a pictuire of Powell's young HB could you!? :)

[Maija]

Handily enough, there's four pages of Eric's Weird Tales story right here:

http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/preview.php?theid=11-341&p=1

[morna]

How handy! thanks! Ya Powell really has a handle on young HB. It would be awesome to see more stories with YHB and Mac.

[mgs]

I thought it was a really great read of a series and especially b/c it came out so quickly in between issues! :D

Wasn't sure if corben would work, but after reading this, he is one who can make a replacement Hellboy story (with mike writing, of course) that is acceptible to me.

[marty82]

Some interesting theories coming from Makoma:
I have to admit, right up until the very end, I thought Hellboy WAS Makoma (maybe in a previous life or something) but the parallels are too many to ignore. Why draw HB as Makoma and why relate the Hand with the hammer? They are clearly related but how? I'll come back to this. There was a period of time when Makoma was under the control of the fire demon, and he assumed his true form and was even referred to as Anung Un-Rama (HBs real name!) but also Anung Ess and anung Em-Esh. This means HB and Makoma must be one and the same, right? Perhaps Makoma was HB in a different incarnation.

I think it is too tempting to speculate on the origin of HB and the Hand. We know the origin of the Hand (original watcher grabbing fire out of the sky) and then this has remained in existence in some form or another. We also know HB has come from the PIT. We also know that one of the watchers of the pit has referred to him as his son. Could this mean that Astaroth is his father? Perhaps the watcher who created the hand and the Ogdru Jahad lives on but is banished to the PIT. (The strange guy from the Island was presumably related to the watchers and wasn’t he banished to oblivion?). A benevolent watcher/creator of the Dragon/HB’s father therefore created a mighty warrior to guard the Hand and protect the Earth (possibly Makoma long ago and now HB??). At that time, the hand was symbolised as a hammer. Maybe, a portion of the stone hand was used in constructing the Hammer?

Another interesting point; Makoma battled the Dragon many years ago. Who then had released the Dragon? Was it Makoma himself when possessed by the fire demon?

One further interesting consequence of the Dragon being released previously during Earth’s history and life on earth destroyed; is this not a representation of the continuous cycle of creation-preservation and destruction as in the Hindu faith? (According to Hindus, we are currently in the 4th cycle of Life). Every cycle of life being one day in the life of the creator, Brahma. The dragon is clearly the destroyer aspect (akin to Siva), does this make HB the creator and preserver? It is a bit more complex because HB releases and then has the power to control the destructive force of the Dragon. The watchers’ role in saving the Earth is obvious; they are protecting their own interests. There may be an inevitability about the whole thing being a cycle played out for infinity. Life is created and then it is destroyed. HB controls the Dragon and that is his role. He has never been so close to humans before (Makoma had very little human contact) and so now perhaps he also is evolving and understanding his role. This explains his pain and exhaustion.

As an aside, has anyone else thought of the similarity between the fire demon and Liz Sherman? Many times she is referred to as "demon" during “Plague of Frogs”. The fire demon is also inextricably linked to the root of the story, as the watcher plucked fire from the sky to create the Dragon. I can’t quite work out how she is linked to the fire demon specifically. No coincidence that she had a part to play in the destruction of Sadu Hem.

Thanks for the interesting mind spinning stories. Keep it up!

[Crowley]

anyone else notice the Hammer was the same design as the Thor Hammer in Bone of Giants?

coincidence?

[Neil Hill]

I'd say similar, but the same? Hmmm...I'd have to go back and cross0 reference the hammer from Bones of Giants to be sure. Has anyone done this already?

[Poe Ghostal]

Looks to me like the shapes of the hammers are very similar, but the designs etched on them are different.

[Neil Hill]

Looks to me like the shapes of the hammers are very similar, but the designs etched on them are different.

Yeah, that's kind of what I thought too. I like the idea of the hammer representing HB's hand when HB is Makoma during the story revelation, but I didn't see the hammer from BOG being the same exact one as wielded by Makoma.

[Mike Cross]

Finally got issue 2 today..i like it in the same vein that i liked The Island...great to have new Hellboy, maybe a little too thought provoking for me.
Corben's art is Corben's art, like it or not, it's pretty cool..Mike's story has it's great parts too.."it too went in the bag", just the setup of that line makes me laugh.
I agree the hammer looks like Mjolnir, but it can't be the same one..

[Maija]

Maybe all the gods and heroes of old got their hammers from SmiteCo Hammers Inc. "When you smite with a SmiteCo®™, you're smiting with style!"™

[Poe Ghostal]

Maybe all the gods and heroes of old got their hammers from SmiteCo Hammers Inc. "When you smite with a SmiteCo®™, you're smiting with style!"™
More like Acme, given the survival rate of the users, wouldn't you say? (I'm referring to Thor and Makoma here...)

(First person to draw Wile E. Coyote with a hammer gets mad props...!)

[E. Spears]

finally got the comic a couple days ago. it was pretty sweet.

(no real analysis from me, I just thought it was a tight comic).

[Bertowud]

Thanks for the analysis, Mist. You raise some interesting connections and parallels.

This is the other thing that allowed me to accept the art—I didn't read it as really being a Hellboy story. I got the impression that the mummy wasn't just telling the story in 1993, but taking Hellboy back to his memory of the first time he heard the story—in the week he was lost in 1947, but which he has now forgotten. So I read it as 1993 Hellboy regressing to the memory of young Hellboy in 1947 playfully imagining himself as the hero Makoma as the story is being told to him by the spirits of Africa (and those spirits recognize that he is destined to be a similar hero, so it's not wrong for Hellboy to project himself on the hero Makoma, and in fact educational). But Hellboy was never Makoma. It's just a story as envisioned in the head of an imaginative little demon as it is told to him by spirits and mummies. So it's not a Hellboy story. And in little Hellboy's head, it might look like Corben art. ;)


As I was reading your post a lightbulb went off. I didn't get this story before. I didn't really care about it good/bad/indifferent. What you said there, makes this story make better sense to me.

Robert

[morna]

Maybe all the gods and heroes of old got their hammers from SmiteCo Hammers Inc. "When you smite with a SmiteCo®™, you're smiting with style!"™

Ha hahahah you crack me up! :)

and I had a similar - though perhaps less well thought out - impression of the meaning of the story. I did not think hellboy was actually Makoma, just playing the story in his head as it was told to him with himself as the main character. I hadn't figured young HB's role in it all yet.

[Tad]

I think the Mummy was telling his story and Hellboy fell in and out of sleep. He wove the mummy's story with his own which explains all the Hellboy references.

Dull explanation perhaps but it still added up to a neat story.

[Poe Ghostal]

If anyone's interested, I found the original folktale online:

http://www.mythfolklore.net/andrewlang/153.htm

[Neil Hill]

If anyone's interested, I found the original folktale online:

http://www.mythfolklore.net/andrewlang/153.htm

Thanks for posting that Poe. It's strangely uncanny how closely Mike's version of the story in the comic follows the actual legend (except for the inclusion of Hellboy as Makoma throughout much of the story, of course). Very cool changes were made and tailored to suite a Hellboy yarn, but still very similar.

[Tad]

Thanks for that. That whole series of Fairy Books by Andrew Lang is fantastic.

[Maija]

I think the Mummy was telling his story and Hellboy fell in and out of sleep. He wove the mummy's story with his own which explains all the Hellboy references.Given that every supernatural being in the universe is knows who Hellboy is and knows what the RHOD is for, I would say that the Hellboy references would be just as likely be coming from the mummy, who is a pretty important player in the ancient African history of the world, and so he is passing on this cautionary tale of one more cycling of the universe, and battle with the dragon which will soon be Hellboy's to engage again. Since the mummy disintigrates as soon as the tale is finished, the mummy must have been preserving himself for the sole purpose of telling Hellboy this important story.

Unless he's like an old lonely senior citizen who will just tell stories to whoever will listen.

"...so I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time..."

[Tad]

Since the mummy disintigrates as soon as the tale is finished, the mummy must have been preserving himself for the sole purpose of telling Hellboy this important story.

That sounds like Mike's sense of humor - to have a mummy hold itself together through the ages to tell this story, then having Hellboy fall asleep and screw up all the details.

[kid cthulhu]

"...so I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time..."

Ruta, you're hilarious!

[hellboyone]

Ruta, you're hilarious!

"I wore a fifteen pound beard of bees for that woman, but it just wasn't enough."

R.

[tomasej]

I think I agree with what most ahve said so far. Mike seems to be going with he whole cyclical universe idea. Makoma played the same role in a previous cycle as Hellboy plays in this one, but HB isn't accepting his role the way Makoma did. So it is a cautionary tale basically telling HB to "wake up, accept your place in the universe and do it right."

[Poe Ghostal]

"...so I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time..."
"Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. 'Give me five bees for a quarter,' you'd say..."

[el seth]

I think I agree with what most ahve said so far. Mike seems to be going with he whole cyclical universe idea. Makoma played the same role in a previous cycle as Hellboy plays in this one, but HB isn't accepting his role the way Makoma did. So it is a cautionary tale basically telling HB to "wake up, accept your place in the universe and do it right."

Yeah kinda, but Makoma dosen't destroy the universe the way everyone wants HB to do. The universe just kinda destroyed itself? Or something. Yeah, I dunno.

[tomasej]

Yeah kinda, but Makoma dosen't destroy the universe the way everyone wants HB to do. The universe just kinda destroyed itself? Or something. Yeah, I dunno.

Everyone may not fully understand HB's role. Perhaps I misunderstood the Makoma story, but I thought the world died as a result of his battle with the dragon. (It has been a while since I read it for the first time and I'm at work so I can't re-read it at the moment.) Beast of the Apocalypse may not be the evil role everyone thinks it is? Or perhaps it is up to HB to turn his role around in an effort to dictate the nature of the renewed universe?

[Neil Hill]

I think I agree with what most ahve said so far. Mike seems to be going with he whole cyclical universe idea. Makoma played the same role in a previous cycle as Hellboy plays in this one, but HB isn't accepting his role the way Makoma did. So it is a cautionary tale basically telling HB to "wake up, accept your place in the universe and do it right."

These comments are very insightful. This also makes me wonder when Hellboy will get to fight the Seven Headed Dragon himself (as seems inevitable). I wonder also if Hellboy will have to literally increase in size to take on the dragon in any kind of fair way. In the Makoma dream sequences "he" (meaning Hellboy/Makoma) seemed to increase in size depending on what was happening. Now I doubt Hellboy would increase in size in the "real world" of Hellboy's life, but it might make for an interesting visual.

[el seth]

Everyone may not fully understand HB's role. Perhaps I misunderstood the Makoma story, but I thought the world died as a result of his battle with the dragon.

Not quite, I don't think. Makoma meets the dragon "at the end of the world," and by the time he's at the hut, the Earth is essentialy a watseland covered in bones.

[Kelly Tindall]

I was really surprised at how moving this issue was...

SPOILERS

There was a lot of punching and smart-assed comments (which are HB trademarks) but I was really struck by the parts with the eerie feast, and the birth of the mummy. I was really moved.

The lone figures of Hellboy and the Ogdru Jihad, standing at the end of the world, made for a really dramatic scene.

And then that great gag at the end... Really super stuff, between this and B.P.R.D. Mike is becoming really excellent at writing for other artists.

END SPOILERS

K.

[MichaelMogg]

Argh! Help! Hellboy/BPRD usually makes my head swim, but this time it's really got me wondering. My question is simple: what the hell happened? :confused:

Hellboy, after fighting the dragon, falls, dies and is now transformed into a human lying in the grass with a hammer . . . Ok, so it was or was not Hellboy in the story?

My guess is, it can't be him. Is the mummy simply telling the story of Makoma and Hellboy is therefore imagining himself as the protagonist? Is the same [kind of] spirit Makoma possesses in Hellboy as well, and the mummy mistakes Hellboy for Makoma? :confused:

Sometimes reading this stuff is almost as bad as watching a David Lynch film. I'm not sure "enjoyment" is the right word.

[Neil Hill]

Argh! Help! Hellboy/BPRD usually makes my head swim, but this time it's really got me wondering. My question is simple: what the hell happened? :confused:

Hellboy, after fighting the dragon, falls, dies and is now transformed into a human lying in the grass with a hammer . . . Ok, so it was or was not Hellboy in the story?

My guess is, it can't be him. Is the mummy simply telling the story of Makoma and Hellboy is therefore imagining himself as the protagonist? Is the same [kind of] spirit Makoma possesses in Hellboy as well, and the mummy mistakes Hellboy for Makoma? :confused:

Sometimes reading this stuff is almost as bad as watching a David Lynch film. I'm not sure "enjoyment" is the right word.

I'll take a quick stab at answering your question.

As you noticed in Makoma issue 1, Hellboy starts to fall asleep as the mummy begins to tell the tale. Perhaps Hellboy then inserts himself as the protagonist and it remains so throughout the tale until the end when Makoma himself reemerges. I think the greater context we need to take into account though, is that it appears Mike is drawing parallels between the hero of the Makoma story and Hellboy himself- fighting the 7 headed dragon, going on various journeys of self-discovery, etc.

As to Mike's full intention with this story I can only speculate, but I would guess that Mike liked the African tale of Makoma and wanted to 'invest' Hellboy upon that story, therefore he found a way to logically shoehorn him in there and have it work.

In the end, I think the whole mix works quite well and doesn't feel forced or false in the slightest. In fact, I wish more writer/artists were as capable, but that only makes Mike that much more rare and treasured in his field.

[MichaelMogg]

I'll take a quick stab at answering your question.

As you noticed in Makoma issue 1, Hellboy starts to fall asleep as the mummy begins to tell the tale. Perhaps Hellboy then inserts himself as the protagonist and it remains so throughout the tale until the end when Makoma himself reemerges. I think the greater context we need to take into account though, is that it appears Mike is drawing parallels between the hero of the Makoma story and Hellboy himself- fighting the 7 headed dragon, going on various journeys of self-discovery, etc.

Fair enough. That was what I was guessing. Hard to be sure though. I'm still not sure why the mummy felt it needed to tell Hellboy above everyone else. :confused:


As to Mike's full intention with this story I can only speculate, but I would guess that Mike liked the African tale of Makoma and wanted to 'invest' Hellboy upon that story, therefore he found a way to logically shoehorn him in there and have it work.

In the end, I think the whole mix works quite well and doesn't feel forced or false in the slightest. In fact, I wish more writer/artists were as capable, but that only makes Mike that much more rare and treasured in his field.

Holy contradictions, Batman! :p You say -- quite rightly -- that Hellboy was "shoehorned" into the story, then you say it doesn't feel forced. To shoehorn sth into sth else means forcing it. [/being a bastich] ;)

I agree that it works for most of the story, but the end bits were a bit hard to resolve. I agree that his style is unique, and who am I to say anything, but I'm not a big fan of cryptic storytelling. I'm either too stupid or lazy and I don't get much enjoyment from it, especially when the answers cannot be found in the work itself and we are left to speculate (I'm no longer just talking about Mike and his work, by the way). Letting the reader fill in the blanks with speculation can sometimes come across as sloppy if not self-indulgent on the writer's part.

Anyway, thanks again for the input Neil! Much appreciated. :)

[Neil Hill]

Holy contradictions, Batman! :p You say -- quite rightly -- that Hellboy was "shoehorned" into the story, then you say it doesn't feel forced. To shoehorn sth into sth else means forcing it. [/being a bastich] ;)

I agree that it works for most of the story, but the end bits were a bit hard to resolve. I agree that his style is unique, and who am I to say anything, but I'm not a big fan of cryptic storytelling. I'm either too stupid or lazy and I don't get much enjoyment from it, especially when the answers cannot be found in the work itself and we are left to speculate (I'm no longer just talking about Mike and his work, by the way). Letting the reader fill in the blanks with speculation can sometimes come across as sloppy if not self-indulgent on the writer's part.

Anyway, thanks again for the input Neil! Much appreciated. :)

Perhaps shoehorned was the wrong choice of phrase, and thanks for catching me on that one. Maybe, invested into the story would be a better way to put it. Having Hellboy show up in what amounts to an already existing mythology (in this case an African folk tale) could have been a disaster, but Mike worked it out nicely.

Again, thanks for keeping me honest!