Detective Comics # 817 - The Batman I know and love is back - Spoilers

[Nick Kal]

It was brilliant.

Batman and Robin are a Dynamic Duo, again. Commis is Gordon! Bullock is back. Harvey is the mysterious vigilante in Gotham who just killed KG Beast... and someone, who is not yet revealed, is working with him... Posion Ivy is alive again and she's got some building hostage with new powers... It was a solid issue. This arc and Batman into the future will be the book to read.

[TheOnlyXTremeFan]

Gordon and Bullock!

YES!

Also, how'd you get a copy of this? I barely saw the preview over at Newsarama.

[Nick Kal]

Gordon and Bullock!

YES!

Also, how'd you get a copy of this? I barely saw the preview over at Newsarama.

That would be telling. :)

[stillanerd]

It was brilliant.

Batman and Robin are a Dynamic Duo, again. Commis is Gordon! Bullock is back. Harvey is the mysterious vigilante in Gotham who just killed KG Beast... and someone, who is not yet revealed, is working with him... Posion Ivy is alive again and she's got some building hostage with new powers... It was a solid issue. This arc and Batman into the future will be the book to read.

HALLELUIAH! I pretty much guessed that Harvey Dent was going to be the "mysterious vigilante" and he'd kill KGBeast, and I knew Gordon was coming back to the title eventually based on an interview Steve Englehart made to Wordballoon.com a few months ago. But Gordon is the "new" commissoner? Bullock returns? Poison Ivy is alive? THOSE I did not foresee. Buddy, you just made my day! :)

[Nick Kal]

Honestly, after reading this I truly believe that Batman is once again #1 and everyone will just have to read this.

[Indefatigable]

Gordon is the Commish? THANK GOD!

EDIT: Now that I've calmed down I wanna say more!

I am very glad to hear that Batman and Robin are working together. It's always mentioned that they're partners but I can hardly remember the last time they were out together in a Batbook.

Harvey as the vigilante? Perfect!

Again I'm glad Gordon is back. I thought retiring him was one of the biggest mistakes ever. His retirement had actually lasted long enough that I believed DC might never bring him back. I'm glad they changed their minds.

With this DC has gotten me to buy the entire arc without question.

[Mister Intensity]

While I did not agree with everything from the last two editorial regimes (heck, I detested almost everything), I liked the idea of having a new Commissioner (too bad the execution of his use was very poor), and having Gordon back is a step backwards in my eyes. I also would have liked to see Bullock used in a non-police role on a regular basis but like almost everything else, the last editorial regime dropped the ball. At least it would be interesting to see Bullock how Bullock avoids making that last mistake.

With all that said, it's about time we see Batman and Robin as the Dynamic Duo again! Let's hope we see the Duo on a regular basis.

At least OYL is finally making the Batbooks readable again.

Mister Intensity

[jadrax]

It was brilliant.

Batman and Robin are a Dynamic Duo, again. Commis is Gordon! Bullock is back. Harvey is the mysterious vigilante in Gotham who just killed KG Beast... and someone, who is not yet revealed, is working with him... Posion Ivy is alive again and she's got some building hostage with new powers... It was a solid issue. This arc and Batman into the future will be the book to read.

If this turns out to be lies i will hunt you down and kill you for building my hopes up so high ;o)

[mohammedali]

This sounds like great news. I'm keen to pick this up, though I didn't realise its out. Did you get an advance copy or something?

Mohammed Ali

[AlistairCrane]

Why the f*** would Gordon go back to being commisioner after the events of Officer Down? This is stupid!

[Maleficentogre]

akins sucked a mighty hard one that's why.

[Nick Kal]

This sounds like great news. I'm keen to pick this up, though I didn't realise its out. Did you get an advance copy or something?

Mohammed Ali

Just got it yesterday. Everyone must buy this today, or this week. :)

[NathanielEssex]

"akins sucked a mighty hard one that's why."

HAHAHA! That's pretty funny. I wouldn't have put it that way,but...yeah! Too bad the Beast is dead, though. Did he ever have a real name? That's okay. Maybe a future writer can bring back the Beast identity and abilities, maybe a brother's revenge origin or something like that. He was a total badass in Ten Nights of the Beast. Predated Bane, Hush, anybody like that. Except for The Wrath, another cool anti-Batman who's dead.

Harvey kicked ass! Two-Face is one of my favorite comic book characters of all time. I always thought that he should be somewhat of a challenge to Bats in the HTH department. A logical explanation for it? Who cares? It's comics! Although I'll be very, very annoyed if it's not Harvey. :cool:

[OverMaster]

Ivy is back. That makes me feel so fuzzy and warm inside... :)

[Nick Kal]

Ivy is back. That makes me feel so fuzzy and warm inside... :)

An don't forget, she seems to have new powers... of course, there could be something else going on there.

[AlistairCrane]

akins sucked a mighty hard one that's why.

That's not an answer. Gordon was shot, and as a result, decided to retire. Why would he come out of retirement, especially after nearly being killed?

I wanted Mayor Gordon.

[Nick Kal]

That's not an answer. Gordon was shot, and as a result, decided to retire. Why would he come out of retirement, especially after nearly being killed?

I wanted Mayor Gordon.

It wasn't explained... but he came back to the job I think 6 months prior so in 52 it will hopefully be dealt with.

[Roads]

After all these years, shouldn't Alfred and Gordon be DEAD. Come on folks let move the story along.

Get new charcters, like an illegal-alien Mexican/femme lesbian maid for Bruce and a Strong Honest Black Man for a Commish. And with a name like Robin who is showing off the legs, should also be a girl, a Redneck girl with green Daisy Dukes,....

And it's time that Bruce Wayne with all his money get a team of his own like the X-men and the Outsiders. Bruce should kick back a little he's getting old and beat up. Dick should take the mantel of Batman II and pass the Nightwing title to Tim Drake or call Tim Kid Bat.

It was cool when Batman went from campy to bad ass, change is good.
Now it's time for more change, for Batman.

I kick myself in the but for not being a writer so I could make Batman evolve and build on his legacy.

[Nick Kal]

Those ideas sound horrendous.

[Roads]

After all these years, shouldn't Alfred and Gordon be DEAD. Come on folks let move the story along.

Get new charcters, like an illegal-alien Mexican/femme lesbian maid for Bruce and a Strong Honest Black Man for a Commish. And with a name like Robin who is showing off the legs, should also be a girl, a Redneck girl with green Daisy Dukes,....

And it's time that Bruce Wayne with all his money get a team of his own like the X-men and the Outsiders. Bruce should kick back a little he's getting old and beat up. Dick should take the mantel of Batman II and pass the Nightwing title to Tim Drake or call Tim Kid Bat.

It was cool when Batman went from campy to bad ass, change is good.
Now it's time for more change, for Batman.


I kick myself in the but for not being a writer so I could make Batman evolve and build on his legacy.

OPPS! :o

[Maleficentogre]

no. that's just a bunch of stupid ideas.

[Nick Kal]

Why would you make someone read that twice? The pain!

But seriously, the constants of Batman are what make him so awesome.

[Roads]

Stupid? I'm a white guy promoting Blacks and Gays and I'm stupid?

Maybe some us need to evolve as well?

[bloodyarts]

Gordon, Commissioner again? After what happened to him, his wife and his daughter? There's a reason Gordon retired, and those three components were huge parts of the reason. I'm saddened by his return.

I actually like the idea of the Strong Honest Black Man for Mayor. It would make for a great new dynamic in Gotham City. The lesbian maid... nah. Alfred will be alive for as long Bruce needs him to be.

Also, when did Poison Ivy die? I'd like to read that.

Dent going hand to hand with Batman? No freaking way. He's a sociopathic criminal genius and a lawyer. That's it. When did he take 10 years off to train like Bruce did?

Glad to see Bullock return, but didn't he die in Gotham Knights? His arc in the series was a great character study of a burned-out cop, and I think (don't recall) he killed himself. I'll need to dig those issues out later.

Finally, Dynamic Duo once more? I'm on the fence here. I'd hate to see Robin become the Human Target again.

[bloodyarts]

...the constants of Batman are what make him so awesome.

If only the Spider-Man titles could adhere to this statement.

[Nick Kal]

Stupid? I'm a white guy promoting Blacks and Gays and I'm stupid?

Maybe some us need to evolve as well?

AHAHAHAHA. This is the best. When people state they are white and think they're ultra liberal because they want to include diverse characters. :rolleyes:

[Nick Kal]

If only the Spider-Man titles could adhere to this statement.

I seriously would have bought Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man.

[Maleficentogre]

I'm black and I like gordon as commissioner. I'm a horrible person.

[Mister Intensity]

That's not an answer. Gordon was shot, and as a result, decided to retire. Why would he come out of retirement, especially after nearly being killed?

I wanted Mayor Gordon.

Mayor Gordon would be interesting and a way of putting him back in the story without going backward but as long as there are good writers and editors handling what happens I'm with them.

Buh Bye Bat-Jerk era.

Mister Intensity

[Roads]

I'm black and I like gordon as commissioner. I'm a horrible person.

No you are not. My ideas was called stupid with out explaination. I understand that there is different feelings on the characters. I was putting my 2 cents on them as well. I admit I was playing with the idea of the illegal-alien / Mexican Lesbian as a new maid for Bruce, just a little. But, there are a lot of crooked mayors in America and I was thought a Strong Black Mayor would be a POSITIVE change. The other ideas on the Bat family was there for debate.

So, if they are stupid ideas, then shame on me.

"AHAHAHAHA. This is the best. When people state they are white and think they're ultra liberal because they want to include diverse characters. "
- Nick Kal

I'm on the right side of the fence, not that I'm for all that the GOP leaders are up to at the moment. Back to Bruce Wayne & Co.
Today 10:46 AM

[jerrymcl89]

It's pretty apparent that the GCPD went through some major crisis during the '52' year, which I'm sure we'll be seeing unfold. I think that is obviously what would prompt Gordon to come out of retirement (and also apparently got Bullock another chance).

It wasn't quite clear to me if Harvey Dent is working with someone, or if that's a voice in his head. I'd guess the latter.

Should be interesting to see what's up with Ivy's Swamp Thing-like powers. It's not an unreasonable development after her death in Gotham Knights.

Obviously Robin has some reservations about being back, which I'm sure we'll see more of as well.

All in all, I liked it a lot. It's cool to see James Robinson back in the DCU.

[The Batman]

i really liked this issue. the Gordon as commish did kind of feel like a step backwards. a been there, done that sort of thing and a real reversal of what seemed like an important step for the character. i think that Gordon as mayor would've been a very interesting way to go and that not going that way was a missed opportunity.

oh well, it's not like commisioner Gordon is a horrible idea.

otherwise it was great to see Batman beng Batman again and not tangled up in some crossover crisis event like War Games or something.

[Paul Kersey]

I will be checking out Batman again. I stopped reading after HUSH and made a point to not to return to reading the title again after Jason Todd was brought back, so this sounds like good news. Alot of people don't like things returning to the status quo but I think Gordon should always be commisioner.

[colossus34]

No you are not. My ideas was called stupid with out explaination. I understand that there is different feelings on the characters. I was putting my 2 cents on them as well. I admit I was playing with the idea of the illegal-alien / Mexican Lesbian as a new maid for Bruce, just a little. But, there are a lot of crooked mayors in America and I was thought a Strong Black Mayor would be a POSITIVE change. The other ideas on the Bat family was there for debate.

So, if they are stupid ideas, then shame on me.

"AHAHAHAHA. This is the best. When people state they are white and think they're ultra liberal because they want to include diverse characters. "
- Nick Kal

I'm on the right side of the fence, not that I'm for all that the GOP leaders are up to at the moment. Back to Bruce Wayne & Co.
Today 10:46 AM

I for one think your ideas aren't all that bad...a mexican maid for Bruce would be make for an interesting dynamic especially since he basically grew up without a solid mother figure in his life(might be funny if she starts berating him for how badley Alfred spoiled him!) A new black mayor(or whatever minority) who maybe has some ties to Bruce's past etc would also be cool

Even COOLER would be to have something happen where Bruce loses his empire and is forced to adjust his crimfighting life/personal life now that he's no longer a multi-billionare!

Just anything but the same old Commish Gordon, Bullock, Alfred! :( C'mon those storylines have been used and abused to death, Batman needs supporting characters that evolve, grow and mature and NEW people that come into his life! I mean why not just turn the clock and make Dick Robin again and have him move back in to the mansion! I'm sorry but OYL doesn't feel intersting yet....

[Roads]

I for one think your ideas aren't all that bad...a mexican maid for Bruce would be make for an interesting dynamic especially since he basically grew up without a solid mother figure in his life(might be funny if she starts berating him for how badley Alfred spoiled him!) A new black mayor(or whatever minority) who maybe has some ties to Bruce's past etc would also be cool

Even COOLER would be to have something happen where Bruce loses his empire and is forced to adjust his crimfighting life/personal life now that he's no longer a multi-billionare!

Just anything but the same old Commish Gordon, Bullock, Alfred! :( C'mon those storylines have been used and abused to death, Batman needs supporting characters that evolve, grow and mature and NEW people that come into his life! I mean why not just turn the clock and make Dick Robin again and have him move back in to the mansion! I'm sorry but OYL doesn't feel intersting yet....


Thank you, friend.

[Violently Apathetic]

Taking one step forward, slipping two steps back, there's an empty feeling that you can't forget...

Bringing in new characters WOULD be nice, but I'd rather it not be at the expense of the old. Besides, I think fans are pretty slow to accept new characters because, well, they embrace the status quo as they remember it. That said, I'm glad to see Ivy and Gordon again, lovely nostalgia.

New characters + Changing and evolving old characters= Teh Win?

[Guts/Batman]

Loved this issue. Batman seemed to be in "hardass but not a dick" mode. Great set up for the rest of the arc.

As for new characters/old characters, I'm leery of new characters because of Hush, this new incarnation of Jason Todd, Ruin, Kara Zor-El, and a few others. I don't mind them but they can't just be cardboard cutouts of other characters...

They have to have something that is unique and most of the new characters in DC seem to lack that.

[stealthwise]

STATUS QUO YEAH!

Actually, it's nice to see that those elements in Batman, like Commissioner Gordon and Bullock, will be around for future generations to enjoy. It made no sense for DC to try and give a false impression of change by simply rotating the supporting cast and annoying anyone who tries to read the comics after only being familiar with the characters through the animated series or movies.

As far as the issue goes, it's an interesting start and not much more than that. The One Year Later titles will probably all allude to past events that we won't learn about until 52 is completed, but at least we don't have to dwell on that and we can simply enjoy the stories as they occur now.

Batman is back, Robin is back, and we're going to get the kinds of stories that we SHOULD have been getting from the Bat-titles for the past ten years.

[stillanerd]

STATUS QUO YEAH!

Actually, it's nice to see that those elements in Batman, like Commissioner Gordon and Bullock, will be around for future generations to enjoy. It made no sense for DC to try and give a false impression of change by simply rotating the supporting cast and annoying anyone who tries to read the comics after only being familiar with the characters through the animated series or movies.

As far as the issue goes, it's an interesting start and not much more than that. The One Year Later titles will probably all allude to past events that we won't learn about until 52 is completed, but at least we don't have to dwell on that and we can simply enjoy the stories as they occur now.

Batman is back, Robin is back, and we're going to get the kinds of stories that we SHOULD have been getting from the Bat-titles for the past ten years.

I agree. And with Paul Dini and Grant Morrison taking the reins after all this arc is over...to quote Homer Simpson: WOO-HOO!

And in retrospect it was a mistake that they made Gordon step down as commissioner originally because it left him without a role. Now that he's back as commish, all is right with the world again. Double WOO-HOO!

[King Krypton]

"akins sucked a mighty hard one that's why."

HAHAHA! That's pretty funny. I wouldn't have put it that way,but...yeah! Too bad the Beast is dead, though. Did he ever have a real name?

Anatoli Knayazhev. (RE: "Ten Nights of the Beast.")

Overall, good issue. I have to admit to liking the way Batman sort of bypasses the female officer when he's talking Gordon. Normally he'd just be acting rude, but here he just seems happy to have his old friend back on the job and isn't being completely mindful of his surroundings. Completely believable, and a nice human touch, especially when Robin reassures the woman that Batman does appreciate her sentiments.

The new Robin suit...well, it looked better in the cover images than it does in practice. Oh, well. The rest of the issue looks good, though.

Not a bad start to the new era.

[King Krypton]

I for one think your ideas aren't all that bad...a mexican maid for Bruce would be make for an interesting dynamic especially since he basically grew up without a solid mother figure in his life(might be funny if she starts berating him for how badley Alfred spoiled him!) A new black mayor(or whatever minority) who maybe has some ties to Bruce's past etc would also be cool

Even COOLER would be to have something happen where Bruce loses his empire and is forced to adjust his crimfighting life/personal life now that he's no longer a multi-billionare!

Just anything but the same old Commish Gordon, Bullock, Alfred! :( C'mon those storylines have been used and abused to death, Batman needs supporting characters that evolve, grow and mature and NEW people that come into his life! I mean why not just turn the clock and make Dick Robin again and have him move back in to the mansion! I'm sorry but OYL doesn't feel intersting yet....

You need Gordon and Alfred to be there. They're just as much staples of Batman as Lois, Jimmy, and Perry are to Superman. Bullock I can take or leave, but you need Gordon and Alfred for Batman to be complete.

And Dick Grayson's still the best Robin.

[BonjourTragedy]

This issue reminded me so much of the B:TAS. I loved seeing Batman and Robin actually together plus the Bat-Plane coming up like that was a great image.

[Maleficentogre]

Tim's the best robin, can't wait to get a hold of his book. I love seeing Gordon and Batman together on the roof. I love how gordon just knows that batman will show up. I love harvey being there and bullock showing up, I do wonder how he got back on the force.

[Corrina]

And with a name like Robin who is showing off the legs, should also be a girl, a Redneck girl with green Daisy Dukes,....


This is what you call bad-ass rather than campy?

O-kay.

[literally exaggerated]

Great, great issue. I'm wondering, is this Bruce and Tim? Dick and Tim? Someone else? It really wasn't stated.

[Maleficentogre]

It's bruce and tim. That's Tim's robin outfit and no one else would've been as cool with harvey; and harvey wouldn't have reacted so cool to a different batman. I'm so happy batman is back. If anything else his convo with gordon showed it's batman.

[divinebrown]

It wasn't quite clear to me if Harvey Dent is working with someone, or if that's a voice in his head. I'd guess the latter.


I agree, but I didn't know if not showing Batman might not be just to build up the suspense. It makes perfect sense that Dent would be hearing Batman in his head as I highly doubt plastic surgery alone cure a multiple personality disorder. Also, in that scene, is the bank robber dead? No way the old Bruce Wayne would let that fly. He would be hauling Dent to jail for killing KGBeast.

And do we know for a fact that this is Bruce Wayne in the costume. I have my doubts, and I think we may all be surprised.

[divinebrown]

Great, great issue. I'm wondering, is this Bruce and Tim? Dick and Tim? Someone else? It really wasn't stated.

Ahhh.... Dang people asking my question as I'm typing it :D . I think it's definitely Tim Drake; I'm pretty sure this was confirmed in an interview.

[Maleficentogre]

Batman was talking to harvey, it's his shadow. The bank robber is alive. Would anyone but bruce call commissioner gordon Jim?

[jetter_cheeze]

I agree. And with Paul Dini and Grant Morrison taking the reins after all this arc is over...to quote Homer Simpson: WOO-HOO!

And in retrospect it was a mistake that they made Gordon step down as commissioner originally because it left him without a role. Now that he's back as commish, all is right with the world again. Double WOO-HOO!


I wouldn't argue that it was a mistake. There was some good story ideas that allowed a series like Gotham Central to exist where it showed the fallout of Gordon not being commish. Since they could jump a year forward it made sense that now would be the best time to bring Gordon back because the story of Batman fighting cops again had its time and place (and frankly, outside of GC, was this plot element ever really used to its full potential?)

[Maleficentogre]

Gotham Central would have been inefective as a series with Gordon in as Commish. And then montoya would still be a cop, and crispus allen would probably be alive and thus we'd have no spectre so in the end it all works out.

[Choppa]

1. How did Harvey Dent manage to defeat the KGBeast when Batman has trouble fighting him?

2. Why the F is Gordon back as commisioner? Does character development get forgotten in 52?

3. Same with Bullock. Where the heck has he been, and will his reappearance be explained in 52?

[stillanerd]

I wouldn't argue that it was a mistake. There was some good story ideas that allowed a series like Gotham Central to exist where it showed the fallout of Gordon not being commish. Since they could jump a year forward it made sense that now would be the best time to bring Gordon back because the story of Batman fighting cops again had its time and place (and frankly, outside of GC, was this plot element ever really used to its full potential?)

That's true, Gotham Central was a good thing that came out of it, and the One Year Later did provide the perfect opportunity to bring Gordon back. However, it seemed as though that while Gordon was in retirement, he really didn't have much of a role. And you notice how infrequently he appeared since the time of Officer Down? And when was that, four years ago? I mean, his purpose was supposed to be the guy who tips off Batman, right? When he wasn't commissioner, it seemed like he was just lost--maybe that was the point. Oh well, I guess it made his return as commish that much sweeter.

BTW, it still would've been interesting to have Batman still mistrusted to some degree by some of the police; that was one element that I actually liked that came out of War Games. But hey, what we now have seems very much reminiscent of the Batman Animated Series, which is fine by me.

[Guts/Batman]

3. Same with Bullock. Where the heck has he been, and will his reappearance be explained in 52?

Undoubtedly will be unless DC just thinks it's not important enough to explain, which from the sounds of it, looks like the case.

I'm not going to pick up 52, I just don't care enough anymore....

[stealthwise]

1. How did Harvey Dent manage to defeat the KGBeast when Batman has trouble fighting him?

It looked and sounded like the Beast has fallen on hard times, plus he was taken off-guard. Harvey's probably been kicking ass over the past year and building up his repertoire.

2. Why the F is Gordon back as commisioner? Does character development get forgotten in 52?

Looks like Gordon comes back because he knows that he's needed.

3. Same with Bullock. Where the heck has he been, and will his reappearance be explained in 52?

It most likely gets explained during 52, and may even be a major plot point.

[Guts/Batman]

Looks like Gordon comes back because he knows that he's needed.

This is what kinda Gordon does. Though I wonder what made him come back this time. The way he was talking in Birds of Prey to Batman was...less than enthused to see him.

[literally exaggerated]

Bullock's return will be explained, hell, its already being hinted at as a major plot point. Gordon's return will be too, though I don't know that it will be much more than "I was really badly needed."

[divinebrown]

Yeah, seeing as how Montoya is one of the major players in 52 I thinki it's a definite that this is where Bullock's story will be told. Prior to OYL they are both alcoholics so maybe they help each other out of their downward slide. The last time Bullock was seen, in Gotham Central's "Unresolved" arc, he was not looking too good.

[Sean Whitmore]

Well, well. "Everything new is old again".

Nice (piece of a) story, anyway. Love to see something is finally being done with Harvey.

And the continuity geek in me loves Robinson's little touches, like Batman comparing Ivy to Swamp Thing and Gordon mentioning that this is his third time as commissioner. :D


SEAN

[jetter_cheeze]

1. How did Harvey Dent manage to defeat the KGBeast when Batman has trouble fighting him?

2. Why the F is Gordon back as commisioner? Does character development get forgotten in 52?

3. Same with Bullock. Where the heck has he been, and will his reappearance be explained in 52?


1. We are not sure it was dent, for right now it appears that it was dent, let's wait and see.

2 & 3. Have you heard about this little known title called 52? Its gonna explain everything in the one year lapse, that is its whole purpose.

[SuperSince92]

I LOVED this issue. Just seeing Batman AND Robin show up to answer the Bat-signal was one of those moments that just made me say: "Yes." I also loved the fact that Robinson didn't completely abandon the Batdick persona. I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Batman's interaction with the police officer on the roof. I loved how he graced over her and stuck to business. She doesn't have his respect, but Commissioner Gordon does.

It's def Bruce under the cowl. Commissioner Gordon would not be so easygoing if it were Dick. He'd know it's not the same person, though I have a feeling that if he knew it were Dick (or the first Robin) under the cowl, he'd be accepting, but not on this level. It would take more time than one year for him to come calling on Batman to return thinking it's someone else.

I still think we have ol' Two-Face on our hands here. Harvey Dent tosses KGBeast off the roof, Two-Face finished him off (with two bullets to the head, no less).

Some other questions on things that have slipped out of my mind....
1) Where has Ivy been? Seems everyone thought she was dead, but I don't recall her dying. Someone refresh my memory.

2) Did Bullock leave the force prior to 52? If so, what are the circumstances that surrounded that?

[Guts/Batman]

1) Where has Ivy been? Seems everyone thought she was dead, but I don't recall her dying. Someone refresh my memory.

2) Did Bullock leave the force prior to 52? If so, what are the circumstances that surrounded that?

1) Yes. In GK when she was Hush's pawn, she "died".

2) Bullock must have left somewhere in Gotham Central.

[jetter_cheeze]

2) Bullock must have left somewhere in Gotham Central.

I thought Bullock left after Officer Down. Gotham Central had the unresoved story about him going after the one case that got away.

Am i thinking right, or is the alcohol showing?

[Guts/Batman]

I thought Bullock left after Officer Down. Gotham Central had the unresoved story about him going after the one case that got away.

Am i thinking right, or is the alcohol showing?

Could be...

I'm not familiar with that but of Bat-continuity...

[Valhalla]

It's def Bruce under the cowl. Commissioner Gordon would not be so easygoing if it were Dick. He'd know it's not the same person, though I have a feeling that if he knew it were Dick (or the first Robin) under the cowl, he'd be accepting, but not on this level. It would take more time than one year for him to come calling on Batman to return thinking it's someone else.




Didn't Gordon pick up the difference in "Prodigal" when Dick was under the Cowl for a while.

All this talk makes me want to start collecting again. But so much catching up to do :eek:

[stillanerd]

BTW, who here gets the feeling that Harvey Dent wasn't actually hearing "Batman" but rather another personality he's created that acts as a conscience? Unless of course the "bat-shadow" was the real Batman, but somehow, I don't think so.

[Apathy Boy]

Lo! I saw a woman climb out of her wheelchair and walk to the comic rack so that she could behold the beauty that is DETECTIVE COMICS #817. Later, I saw a blind man begin to weep because DETECTIVE COMICS #817 restored his eyesight, and then he wept some more due to the wonderfulness of the story therein. Truly, James Robinson is a man of miracles.

I like this issue a lot, if you couldn't tell. I'm not crazy about Gordon being back as commish, but I'm thrilled to see Harvey Bullock back.

And those of you who think the blanks are only going to be referenced in 52 are most likely wrong. I'm betting 52 will provide some of the answers while some will be gradually revealed in the books themselves. This is the age of tie-ins, after all.

[Apathy Boy]

I thought Bullock left after Officer Down. Gotham Central had the unresoved story about him going after the one case that got away.

Am i thinking right, or is the alcohol showing?No reason it can't be both.

Bullock was indeed drummed out of the force in the days following "Officer Down." He tipped off the mob to the whereabouts of the guy who shot Gordon and got found out. A couple of years later, he showed up in GOTHAM CENTRAL suffering a major breakdown, complete with suicide attempt.

Man, the Gotham Police Department has been dull as dirt since Bullock left.

BTW, who here gets the feeling that Harvey Dent wasn't actually hearing "Batman" but rather another personality he's created that acts as a conscience? Unless of course the "bat-shadow" was the real Batman, but somehow, I don't think so.Ooh. It'd be cool beyond belief if we found out that Harvey actually was Batman now, but wasn't aware of it. Though I doubt that's actually happening here.

[stillanerd]

Ooh. It'd be cool beyond belief if we found out that Harvey actually was Batman now, but wasn't aware of it. Though I doubt that's actually happening here.

You misunderstand (although what you suggested has a touch of an Elseworld story I once read) What I was thinking was that Harvey may have created a "Batman" persona for himself to counter-balance his Two-Face personality like when he created Janus, not that he's ACTUALLY Batman (that of course is still Bruce Wayne.) Remember, we ARE dealing with someone with multiple personalities. :)

EDIT: Or maybe the "person" he's talking to is really his Two-Face persona coming back to the surface. That seems like the most logical, if not obvious, explanation.

[David O Burcham]

Robinson. Morrison. Dini.


BATDICK IS DEAD!


LONG LIVE THE BATMAN!!!

[jwd]

I thought it was an okay start story wise.

Having Gordon and Bullock back is a plus. Normally moving forward is what I like to see and not retreading old stuff but the way they had Atkins potrayed - I won't miss him.

Bullock quit sometime after or during Officer Down I think. I'm going from memory here but Gordon's shooter was some how going to get off on a technicality or something and Bullock "took care of him" if you get my drift. Basically took the law into his own hands.

So I'm guessing there was some corruption. Bullock found out about it. He and Gordon exposed it. Gordon was reinstated as Commissioner and Bullock was let back on the force too. Now the question is. Who was involved in the corruption? Atkins? Sawyer? Montoya? I can live with the mystery. I'm not shelling out for 52 issues.

[Ryan Day]

This was quite good. I haven't read a regular Batman book for years, but this was a nice opportunity to get back into things. I don't know if I'll be a regular reader, but this is a nice start.

Good stuff: Batman and Robin showing up - it really felt like we haven't seen them for a year, either. Seeing Gordon get back to the flow of things was nice. (I never really knew he was gone, but that's okay) Harvey the Vigilante is an interesting angle.

Bad stuff: Robinson seemed to lay on the "missing year" angle a bit thick. At times, it felt like it was trying to be an ad for 52. Lots of changes, no real explanations, a few too many "oh, all those things that happened in the last year" moments. On the other hand, if I had no knowledge of the OYL concept, I might not mind. And while I loved the art - tres Brian Bolland - Robin was hopping around on the roof a bit too much.

Full review at my blog (http://metamorphostuff.blogspot.com/2006/03/one-year-later-detective-comics-817.html).

[Cayman]

Is Harper being groomed to become Batwoman?

Cay

[The French Touch]

I liked it a lot.
But I didn't doubt at any moment that the "person" talking to Harvey was his Two-Face personna, inside his head. I couldn't see no bat-shadow.
And the voice calls him "Dent". Wouldn't Bat call him either Two-Face or Harvey?

[PercussionMasta]

I read an interview at Newsarama yesterday that confirmed Bruce as Batman.

[Maleficentogre]

Two-face wouldn't call him friend. Two-face hates harvey. And Two-face wouldn't tell him his job is done.
Montoya couldn't be a part of the corruption because she's not on the force. She left a little while after the RoA blew up.
I like all the changes with no explination. It's a new start and it feels great.

[stillanerd]

I liked it a lot.
But I didn't doubt at any moment that the "person" talking to Harvey was his Two-Face personna, inside his head. I couldn't see no bat-shadow.
And the voice calls him "Dent". Wouldn't Bat call him either Two-Face or Harvey?

Probably right on that one. It's just that the "shadow" that crossed Harvey's half of his face just seemed very reminiscient of Batman to me. Also, considering that Batman has been absent from Gotham for a year, I was thinking that Harvey developed a whole new personality that he thinks is Batman but it's really Harvey himself, although doesn't realize it. Or maybe the other "person" is his Janus personality. I don't know, maybe I'm reading too much into it. :confused:

[Calamas]

Anybody who thinks this issue was a giant step backwards has too quickly forgotten just how far afield the Batworld has gotten in the last five years. Batman was as lost as a comic could get. (“Leslie Thompkins: Murderer,” for God’s sakes.) To go forward from there would only make things worse, no matter the talent involved. You had to go back before you could move forward. Fix the Batworld, then evolve it. There’s plenty of time to do it right, because we’re in good hands now. These people get it.

I’m along for the ride.

[LukeRed5]

I liked this issue. I wasn't blown away, but I liked it. Looking forward to the rest of the story.

[Super Sonic]

Just wonderin', is The Question not supposed to be around, I thought he took over Gotham while he was gone, surely he didn't just up and leave as soon as bats returned.

[trickster]

Stupid? I'm a white guy promoting Blacks and Gays and I'm stupid?

Maybe some us need to evolve as well?

I hate how people bring up the damn race card whenever they have no other argument. I remember reading about St. Bartholomew's night in a novel and how the French Hugunenots were hunted for believing in a different God and not praying in Latin. Being a Huguenot was a dangerous thing. So a guy accidentally bumped into an old woman. Annoyed at that, she yelled: "Goddamn Huguenot!" The guy got mobbed and lynched right away, no questions asked. It's kinda how this is here. Say you want Gordon as a commissioner and not a black guy, you're automatically a racist. Say you don't want Batman to be gay, you're a homophobe. Etc.

As for Tec 817, let's hear it from the man himself (funny thing is this IS from tec 817)

http://www.file-portal.net/tec0017.jpg

The solicit was misleading. "It's One Year Later…and who is the mysterious vigilante who's been keeping Gotham free of crime? And what is his relationship with the new police commisioner?"

What new police commissioner? They might as well have said "It's one year later and things are back the way they were a few years ago".

Edit: Oh, and Poison Ivy is back? Pamela Isley? And people complain that death is meaningless in the DCU, but are OK with Poison Ivy being back? Go figure.

[AlistairCrane]

I hate how people bring up the damn race card whenever they have no other argument. I remember reading about St. Bartholomew's night in a novel and how the French Hugunenots were hunted for believing in a different God and not praying in Latin. Being a Huguenot was a dangerous thing. So a guy accidentally bumped into an old woman. Annoyed at that, she yelled: "Goddamn Huguenot!" The guy got mobbed and lynched right away, no questions asked. It's kinda how this is here. Say you want Gordon as a commissioner and not a black guy, you're automatically a racist. Say you don't want Batman to be gay, you're a homophobe. Etc.

As for Tec 817, let's hear it from the man himself (funny thing is this IS from tec 817)

http://www.file-portal.net/tec0017.jpg

The solicit was misleading. "It's One Year Later…and who is the mysterious vigilante who's been keeping Gotham free of crime? And what is his relationship with the new police commisioner?"

What new police commissioner? They might as well have said "It's one year later and things are back the way they were a few years ago".

Edit: Oh, and Poison Ivy is back? Pamela Isley? And people complain that death is meaningless in the DCU, but are OK with Poison Ivy being back? Go figure.

I totally agree. So much for "change" and "originality" in the DCU...

[mohammedali]

If it isn't clear from the last crisis, DC show people change... people bitch about the change... DC hold a crisis which ends up bringing back the status quo. Funny that no one ever really clocks on.

Mohammed Ali

[Ghostman]

oh, please. most of the changes were just bad. akins never caught on, and ivy's death was bad. change sticks when it actually WORKS.

[mohammedali]

Irrespective of what you think, the fact is that change rarely sticks at all in the DCU. That's the point. The reason is also usually not to do with it being 'bad', but to do with it being different. Gordon was commisioner for a long time, the reason people want him back is because change isn't too well preceived. Don't kid yourself into thinking otherwise.

Mohammed Ali

[trickster]

oh, please. most of the changes were just bad. akins never caught on, and ivy's death was bad. change sticks when it actually WORKS.

Yeah, like it's gonna work when people ask for old things to be back. The multiverse is back, Gordon is back (and I'm sure he's got hair implants, there are very few people his age who have a full head of hair), Hal is back, Troia is back, Batman is a household figure in Gotham and he might as well be on GCPD's payroll.

And Superman has been wearing the same effing uniform for how many years now? And Batman still fights armor-piercing bullets with nothing but spandex. How's that for change?

[Dennis K]

Let's just say Detective is once more on my pull list.

[Corrina]

Yeah, like it's gonna work when people ask for old things to be back. The multiverse is back, Gordon is back (and I'm sure he's got hair implants, there are very few people his age who have a full head of hair),

My stepfather had a full head of hair at age 70.

However, Gordon isn't nearly that old. Going by Batman: Year One, he's possibly late 30s, early 40s. So if Bats has been around 10-15 years, he's 55 at the most. While that may seem old to you, it's not exactly close to nursing home material. :)

[matrix]

Let's just say Detective is once more on my pull list.
hell when i get some money i might add it back myself

[Gingold]

Just wonderin', is the Question not supposed to be around, I thought he took over Gotham while he was gone, surely he didn't just up and leave as soon as bats returned.

The rule seems to be that the featured protaganists of 52 (Question, Ralph, Booster, Black Adam, and Steel) won't be seen in any OYL books until 52 is concluded. One of them might not make it through 52 alive, so they don't want to give that away.

It's certainly possible that Batman has already contacted the Question and told him that his services were no longer needed.

[Choppa]

1. We are not sure it was dent, for right now it appears that it was dent, let's wait and see.

2 & 3. Have you heard about this little known title called 52? Its gonna explain everything in the one year lapse, that is its whole purpose.

No I haven't. That's why I mentioned it twice in the freakin' question.

[Astonishing X-Fan]

"Oh, and Poison Ivy is back? Pamela Isley? And people complain that death is meaningless in the DCU, but are OK with Poison Ivy being back? Go figure"

Two reasons:

a) Poison Ivy's death was EXTREMELY poorly done, made no sense, ruined the character, and was just pointless. It had absolutely no merit.

b) Ivy's simply the kind of character who can rise from the dead. She's not human anymore. And if her new powers in Detective are any indication, she's evolved into something elemental and natural. Due to what she has become, her return was EXPECTED from the very moment she died.

And I'd just like to say THANK GOD SHE'S BACK. Ivy's a great character who's potential is rarely used. I can only hope this is her new lease on life in more ways then one.

Now let's just hope Dent doesn't kill her in this arc. :p

[DCKar2nist]

Isn't the point of IC to bring the DCU back to basics? Have everything set back (almost everything) to how it was pre-crisis?

I'm new to the Batman line I've decided to use the OYL jump to add the Batman titles to my pull, I loved Det. #817 (though I disliked Robins new look) but can someone explain how Ivy died? which issue?

[Astonishing X-Fan]

Ivy died in Gotham Knights last year. Basically, she asked Bruce Wayne to help her find a cure. And together, they cured her and turned her back to a human. But to save her park orphans(the ones from No Man's Land) she tried to turn herself into Ivy again, and the process killed her.

I'm assuming whatever she did to herself before she died is at least partly the cause for her return to the living and her power upgrade.

[DCKar2nist]

Wow no kidding that is an anitclimatic lackluster end to a popular character.

And the continuity geek in me loves Robinson's little touches, like Batman comparing Ivy to Swamp Thing

That comment made me ask, what role does Swamp thing play in the DCU? What with his Vertigo title, I don't see how Batman or any other character in the DC line would be familiar with him.

[Sean Whitmore]

That comment made me ask, what role does Swamp thing play in the DCU? What with his Vertigo title, I don't see how Batman or any other character in the DC line would be familiar with him.


Answering that is opening a whole can of worms, and there really is no definitive answer. :)

Long story short...Swamp Thing, Animal Man, and the other big time Vertigo characters do exist in the DCU. Batman has specifically met Swamp Thing many times. However, Batman and other DCU characters really don't exist in the Vertigo Universe. Confusing, yes, but still the simplest way of putting it.


SEAN

[DCKar2nist]

Thanks for the explanation, I never understood why Animal Man being a DCU hero ever moved to Vertigo.

Now I know I'm veering off course a little but last question: Does anyone know when Swamp thing was last seen in the DCU?

[Choppa]

Isn't the point of IC to bring the DCU back to basics? Have everything set back (almost everything) to how it was pre-crisis?



Where'd you hear this? The point of IC is supposed to be to define what it is to be a hero...or make DC rich...or something

[Sean Whitmore]

Now I know I'm veering off course a little but last question: Does anyone know when Swamp thing was last seen in the DCU?


I'd be hard pressed to name an appearance since Hal Jordan's funeral.

Although Swampy did make a pseudo-appearance in Starman a few years back during the time Jack was in space, in the form of flashbacks.


SEAN

[seaflower]

I love Gordon but I have to say that Akins was starting to grow on me...

I will miss him. I love on particular scene where he is talking to Batman over the phone while Batman is cooking a steak to relax and Akins chides him. Saying that trying to cook the perfect steak is too stressful because you are always trying to get it just right. Off the wall kind of scene but funny.

[Calamas]

. . . Does anyone know when Swamp thing was last seen in the DCU?
Peter David used Swamp Thing in Aquaman, #32 of his 68th series or whatever it was. In 1997 in any case. Closest I can get it, but I don’t read everything.

[Sean Whitmore]

I will miss him. I love on particular scene where he is talking to Batman over the phone while Batman is cooking a steak to relax and Akins chides him. Saying that trying to cook the perfect steak is too stressful because you are always trying to get it just right. Off the wall kind of scene but funny.


Wasn't that Detective Allen? I don't remember Akins and Bats being that chummy.


SEAN

[Maleficentogre]

I was an akins fan when he told the mayor to bite it before he bit it, but overall he's done a pretty shifty job and isn't near as good as gordon (who's totally not to old be a commissioner of police). I wish swampy would make more appearnces in the DCU. He's super cool. and batman knows everything so it makes sense that'd he'd know about swampy. and comparing ivy to swampy was just showing how her powers have boosted.

[seaflower]

Wasn't that Detective Allen? I don't remember Akins and Bats being that chummy.


SEAN

I will double check...I always think of it as Akins...might be wrong...thanks for the heads up!

Still miss Akins...

Welcome back Gordon...damn the man can never retire in peace...

[Jake V]

Wasn't that Detective Allen? I don't remember Akins and Bats being that chummy.


SEAN
Batman was never really chummy with Allen, in fact Allen wasn't a fan of Batman at all, but it was indeed Crispus Allen who Batman was on the phone with while grilling a steak.

[SdotCopp]

yeah it was allen.....and yeah....awesome issue, back to basics

and upon reading all that IC has to offer (all the tie-ins, preIC storylines, and IC itself) i tend to believe that the purpose of IC storyline-wise is to continue the storylines of current characters from a fresh perspective, with a more traditional influence

this issue right here reminded me of detective comics in the 90s with dixon and nolan, which really hits a soft spot with me. bravo robinson

[greg folber]

Now I know I'm veering off course a little but last question: Does anyone know when Swamp thing was last seen in the DCU?

I'm pretty sure the last time Swamp Thing was shown in the DCU was the last issue of the Jim Corrigan Spectre series, #62. Swamp Thing showed up to pay his respects to Corrigan before Corrigan gave up being the Spectre.

[Leon Thomas]

My store got it in late, so I just picked it up. Only part one of the story but I'm loving what I'm seeing so far. Some might say going back to Gordon and Bullock is a step backwards, but if what came AFTER Gordon and Bullock wasn't better, then it isn't going backwards at all. It's going to what worked.

[Choppa]

That logic makes my head hurt. As long as there is a good explanation for their return then I'm down. Btw, why did Bullock leave in the first place?

[Maleficentogre]

He killed someone. I think.

[Leon Thomas]

He killed someone. I think.

Not exactly. He let criminals know where to find the man who shot Gordon. The man was killed.

[Maleficentogre]

That's what it was, thanks. I knew it was something like that.

[Mister Intensity]

Honestly, I felt this issue was just an advertisement for One Year Later. Nothing really happens exact providing teasers hinting at what happened during the missing year. Too many useless panels that could have been taken out to condense the issue's events, while making up for it by giving us a hint of the Batman and Robin dynamic. Hopefully the story picks up with the next installment.

Mister Intensity

[Brack360]

This was my favorite issue of a Batman comic in quite some time. I loved the Batman and Robin dynamic, the return of Poison Ivy, the Harper character, and the mystery that is building up. However, I was somewhat disappointed to see Gordon and Bullock back. I like the character of Jim Gordon, but he has moved on from his role as commissioner and this is a step backwards. I would much prefer to have Gordon either become mayor or have a supporting role as a professor of criminology, like he did during Ed Brubaker's run. I was also hoping that Maggie Sawyer would be the new commissioner.

That Harvey Bullock would ever be allowed back on the force is surprising. He killed Jordan Rich, the man who shot Gordon, himself. Bullock did not simply tip off the mob to Rich's wherabouts, but this is what everyone thinks except for Renee Montoya, who knows the truth (This is hinted at in "Officer Down" and confirmed in Gotham Central's "Unresolved," being released in TPB in April). That said, I'm interested in learning what happened during the missing year and how Bullock earned respect again. When we last saw him in "Unresolved," he was a pitiful drunk who was about to shoot himself in the head, and he would have succeeded if Josie Mac had not distracted him.

Also, Gordon mentioned a new female mayor. I wonder if this will be a new or established character. I also wonder which villain will be killed next issue. Hopefully not Poison Ivy, so soon after being brought back and apparently given new powers.

[Tequilamokinbrd]

Answering that is opening a whole can of worms, and there really is no definitive answer. :)

Long story short...Swamp Thing, Animal Man, and the other big time Vertigo characters do exist in the DCU. Batman has specifically met Swamp Thing many times. However, Batman and other DCU characters really don't exist in the Vertigo Universe. Confusing, yes, but still the simplest way of putting it.


SEAN




I've always seen it like this,


The characters in the Vertigo universe have exact doubles in the DCU, exact same origins, names, even adventures to a point.

You see, the Versions of the characters in the DCU have all the exact same adventures as the ones in the Vertigo universe, but in addition to that they have adventures with the characters and settings of the dcu, the ones in the vertigo universe however, only experience THEIR OWN PERSONAL adventures.


So......

Vertigo Animal Man broke his leg trying to fix a light bulb in his house on January 15th 2006 at 8:59 pm, and so did DCU animal man


DCU Animal Man hung out with Superman in the fortress of solitude yesterday, Vertigo animal man did not.



Now, this raises a question, what was vertigo animal man doing while dc animal man was chillin with Supes?

I like to think that time moves differently in the respective universes allowing one to somehow "Catch up" to the other so they can have certain shared aspect history(think of JLA/Avengers where they both had new york, but didn't share gotham, and to allow for this DC earth was stated to be a bit bigger)








And now that I'm done with that rant, yes 817 rocked.


I'm also going to make a prediction that I haven't seen anywhere else, so if someone already said this I'm sorry, and if they didn't you heard it here first and will hope someone pulls this up a few months from now and gives me props....



Tim Drake was killed during the Crisis, and Batman, not wanting to see another son die, dipped him in a Lazarus Pit.

In the Teen Titans arc where they go to a bleak future where Tim is Batman, they actually went to an alternate timeline where Batman does NOT drop him in the pit, Jason Todd does, and Tim from that point on is mentored more by Jason and/or Ra's Al Ghul.



If you think I'm crazy, do me a favor and go read 817 and that Titans arc again and tell me if you see what I see.

[Captain Jim]

Anybody who thinks this issue was a giant step backwards has too quickly forgotten just how far afield the Batworld has gotten in the last five years. Batman was as lost as a comic could get. (“Leslie Thompkins: Murderer,” for God’s sakes.) To go forward from there would only make things worse, no matter the talent involved. You had to go back before you could move forward. Fix the Batworld, then evolve it. There’s plenty of time to do it right, because we’re in good hands now. These people get it.

I’m along for the ride.

Well said, and a sentiment I tend to echo.

I wouldn't have minded Gordon retiring as commissioner so much if they had a) continued to use him in another capacity and b) developed Akin's character. But alas, neither ever happened. I also always liked Bullock and hated the way they got rid of him--all because Greg Rucka didn't like the character. If the ongoing writers continue in this same vein, I will be a happy camper.

edit: One thing I forgot to mention--I hate Robin's new costume. Echh.

[Babylon23]

I finally got to read this issue, and I have to say, I loved it. Quite simply, Robinson is writing the Batman I know and love, the Batman that has a personality beyong "grim and gritty". Yes, he still lurks in the shadows, but you can see the connection he has to Robin, Gordon and Dent. I'm glad that DC has given me a Batman I can actually care about.

I'm also glad to see Bullock and Gordon back, and I'm intrigued by what happened during the missing year to set this up. Basically, BAtman disappeared 12 months ago, the GCPD corruption came to a head 9 months ago, Bullock was back 6 months ago with something major, and Gordon returned 3 months ago. All of this has piqued my interest.

Good to see Ivy back as well, and more powerful than ever.

Finally, I'm not sure that Harvey is our killer, unless a seperate personality has emerged again. For the sounds of things, he's been protecting the city for the last year, not killing people.

Overall, this issue had everything I love to see in Batman comics. I can't wait for next issue.

[mohammedali]

It also seems that Batman and Gordon were at odds for a while durng 'the year'. Did anyone else get that idea from their dialog or am I just reading it wrong?

Mohammed Ali

[Mister Intensity]

No Batman and Gordon weren't at odds, Batman just disappeared for a year. I have a feeling that end of Infinite Crisis is going to find some way to force Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman to give up their heroic identities for a year.

Mister Intensity

[mohammedali]

There's no feeling about it. We're told that 52 is all about a year without Batman, Superman or Wonder Woman. However, if you read the converation between Batman and Gordon again, you might see what I was talking about. I don't have a copy on me to check again though, so I might be wrong. Could anyone post the few lines of dialog?

Mohammed Ali

[Babylon23]

I'm not sure that Batman and Gordon were at odds during the one year gap. There conversation suggests that some terrible things happened during the year, and Gordon comments that it's funny that they're talking like those events never happened. A conflict between the two of them isn't explicitly mentioned.

[Kistler]

In the past few years, Swamp thing was referenced in STARMAN, was seen at Jim Corrigan's funeral, and played an important role in Hal Jordan's funeral after THE FINAL NIGHT. Also seen in Starman was Jason Woodrue, who was in MANY issues of Swamp Thing, as well as many other DCU books.

And it's not like the DCU guys never show up in Vertigo. Batman, Martian Manhunter, Wesley Dodds and Superman were all at Morpheus's funeral. The Phantom Stranger has teamed-up with John Constantine about as many times as he has with The Batman. And Daniel, the current incarnation of Dream, appeared in JLA during a battle with Starro and in JSA on a couple of occasions, once in Sand's dream and once to confront Degaton. He also recently welcomed his recently dead parents Hector Hall (the latest Dr. Fate) and Lyta (Fury II) into the Dreaming, which is fitting since they were both pretty hefty characters in Gaiman's SANDMAN series.

That's mostly off-topic though. Considering what's supposed to be on-topic, the first part of Robinson's Batman story, here are my thoughts.

People say this makes no sense for Gordon's character, because he was shot. But that wasn't the reason he quit. He told Batman that specifically, that he was leaving because things seemed less in his life after Sarah had died (he was shot only months afterwards) and he felt it was time to leave, that Gotham was never his city as much as it was hers in her heart.

Now time has passed, a couple of years in fact. People can have a lot of introspection in that time. Whenyou've removed yourself from a situation and taken time to absorb all that's happened to you recently, you can look at things with a refreshed outlook and realize that A, maybe you didn't want to leave after all and B, maybe there's a different between leaving something and going back to it with a new approach.

I think Gordon may have realized that being police is in his blood and that he was reacting to a loss of faith in the system, as well as still mourning for his wife. He's needed, he has to come back, but more importantly he WANTS to come back. And this isn't COMPLETELY back to what was old,becuase look at this, there isn't any concern about what the mayor will say about Batman being called, there isn't the standard "we use this signal to call him, but as far as the public knows the batman's an urban myth and this spotlight is just something we use as a detterrent on criminals, warning them if we don't catch them the Batman will."

Nope, he's announcing that the Batman's been called, he lets Batman fly the plane up to the damn rooftop of police headquarters. He works with a vigilante and doesn't carewhat you think. That's a newly invigorated Gordon, akin to his cartoon counterpart.

And while I realize there are still people who complain "but I've seen this", fine, i understand that, but can I just ask one thing: did you enjoy the story? Are you curious as to what happens next? If yes, then why worry about what's been done before? EVERYTHING'S been done before, in some form or another. If you're not enjoying the story, okay, I'm sorry and I sympathize. But if you're going to pick up the next issue, I think DC did their job right.

I for one feel like I just got back to school after a long and difficult summer abroad. My friends are back, the gang is all together again, and we're ready for action, for experiences both old and new. I think this is gonna be fun. :-)

[adeathinthefamily]

Harvey Dent is Batman.

I'm sure of it.

[jadrax]

This issue was simply awsome, hitting all the important notes.

Batman back to being a hero with people cheering his return.

Robin back, Gordon back, Bullock Back, Ivy back, the Bat signal back, even the bat-wing back.

I cant rember the last time a cvomic brought me this much pure joy.

[jadrax]

bah Double post

[ShaggyB]

Maybe its been said or speculated on but I cant wait for 52 in regards to how the hell we got ivy gordan and bullock back.

BTW Dent is sooo talking to himself, welcome back two face

[Choppa]

I thought that Harvey always had a repressed side and that the disfigurement just caused it to dominate? How does talking to himself indicate that he has lost control again?

[Sizzle]

I for one had tingling in my spine as Gordon walked up the stairs cuz I knew what he was going up there to do. The reaction of Gotham to the signal was great. Many things that make Batman work were back. Key to me was the Gordon/Batman relationship and Batman AND Robin. Though, changing the Robin costume was a terrible idea, beatin' worthy. Tim's costume is one of the best one in comics I feel.

[BonjourTragedy]

I like Robin's costume but didn't like the postioning the artist was putting him in. What was with all the jumping isn't he supposed to not wanna be back?

[Indefatigable]

Those of you who don't like Tim's costume check this out: http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5497/1066/1600/TTcvr34revised.jpg

You might like it better.

[Captain Jim]

Nope; didn't help. Way too much red.

[i5hawn]

isn't this batman grayson?

i remember reading a while ago that in jan. grayson was taking the mantle

[Maleficentogre]

no, it's bruce. grayson is nightwing

[Nick Kal]

Robin's new costume is so awesome. The red is what is really making me love it.

[Sean Whitmore]

Robin's new costume is so awesome. The red is what is really making me love it.


I gotta admit, I'm digging it too. It's kinda like Tim's look from the animated series.

Though I'm sure as time goes on we'll see green return to the color scheme.


SEAN

[mohammedali]

I still think that Robin needs to tone down the colours. Getting rid of the green is a good start, but perhaps a darker shade of red would make more sense with him 'hanging' with the "Dark Knight".

Mohammed Ali

[fuaak]

Maybe this has already been posted, maybe not, but I'm copy-pasting a fitting quote from the CSBG blog, Greg Hatcher:

"I'm reserving judgement till we see if this is really going to stick. This was supposed to be where we ended up after "Knightfall," after "Prodigal," after "Contagion," after "No Man's Land," after "Murderer/Fugitive"... etc. After each one of those we were told that the mission statement was to get Batman back to the basics and get his relationships with his supporting cast squared away. And it never lasted, because some writer went for the cheap conflict subplot of Batman vs. Alfred or Batman vs. Robin or Batman vs. everybody."

[keigotl78]

isn't this batman grayson?

i remember reading a while ago that in jan. grayson was taking the mantle

:confused: so... who is the Batman? :confused:

[Maleficentogre]

Bruce Wayne

[Aufbach]

First off, I'm a little surprised I didn't see many (any?) comments about this issue's cover: I loved it. One of the best Batman covers I've seen in years.

The issue itself was also excellent. Some have commented that the change isn't really a change because it's returning to the status-quo. But when things haven't really been "status-quo" for over five years ... well, you see what I'm getting at.

The characterization of Batman in this issue reminds me of when I first started collecting back in the late 80s - dark, intense, and shadowy, but still a hero, and not a jerk.

Looking forward to the next issue.

[Max_Dillon]

Jim Gordon is the Commish, Batman and Robin are a team again and there's a fresh case at hand...


Sounds like some fun comics ahead!

[EDmanwalking]

I couldn't wait till the end of the month to read this, so I got my friend to bring it in today and let me take a look. I have to say, after reading that piece of shit Batman Annual this brought a smile back to my face.

Batdick is no longer...lol, however...the goddamn batman is still present.

[ShaggyB]

I thought that Harvey always had a repressed side and that the disfigurement just caused it to dominate? How does talking to himself indicate that he has lost control again?

because its telling him what to do and hes listening to it

[Forefinger]

It was brilliant.

Batman and Robin are a Dynamic Duo, again. Commis is Gordon! Bullock is back. Harvey is the mysterious vigilante in Gotham who just killed KG Beast... and someone, who is not yet revealed, is working with him... Posion Ivy is alive again and she's got some building hostage with new powers... It was a solid issue. This arc and Batman into the future will be the book to read.
I just got a copy. Man, I can't wait on the rest of Robinson's series. It's funny because he depected Batman as superbatdick in his Starman series. I'm glad that he has a good grasp of the non-dick Batman as well.

I think that OYL might end up being the best thing for the Bat-books in a long time. Almost starting over, getting back to basics. Awesome.

[Mia]

I LOVED this issue. Just seeing Batman AND Robin show up to answer the Bat-signal was one of those moments that just made me say: "Yes." I also loved the fact that Robinson didn't completely abandon the Batdick persona. I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Batman's interaction with the police officer on the roof. I loved how he graced over her and stuck to business. She doesn't have his respect, but Commissioner Gordon does.





Thank you. Because I read this issue a few days ago, and I thought that Batman was the same as he has been portrayed for the last fifteen years. Rude, imperial and arrogant. So I don't understand where people are getting that 'Bat-dick' is gone from.


I did like Robin though, nice to see Tim back to his old form. The uptight anal retentive Tim, as portrayed by Johns in the Titans is gone. This portrayal however reminds me a lot of Dixon. Where Tim is a boy genius who still behaves like your average (good) teenage boy. Not an adult stuck in a childs body.

In all I thought the issue was okay, at least I could read it without falling asleep like I've been forced to do with Lapham, Willingham and Gabrych's run.

[Apathy Boy]

Thank you. Because I read this issue a few days ago, and I thought that Batman was the same as he has been portrayed for the last fifteen years. Rude, imperial and arrogant. So I don't understand where people are getting that 'Bat-dick' is gone from.Yeah, I disliked that scene with Harper. Thought it went against the grain of what the story was supposed to be about.

There were plenty of indications that Batman is becoming more human and likeable, though. His interactions with Jim and Harvey Dent were really quite sympathetic (that is, if that was truly Batman talking to Harvey). And the key moment for me would be the line that comes after the lighting of the Bat-signal: "The people in the street. They've seen it. They're not screaming; they're cheering." Loved that.

So maybe it's just a case of two steps forward, one step back.

[Maleficentogre]

He was talking to gordon like a grown up. That's where the no more batjerk comes from. Previously Batman wouldn't have concented to sincerly being straight up partneres with Gordon.

[NathanielEssex]

I personally, am relieved that he was a jerk to Harper. And I am relieved that he was happy to see Jim, and treated him accordingly. HAS he disrespected Gordon before Officer Down? It seems to me that he never has been a dick to him. I could be wrong, going on memory here.

Anyway, back to Harper. I liked that because it demonstrated that he still has a
bitter edge to him, but he's not completely this way. Sort of a middle ground. Sometimes a dick, sometimes not. I really don't want Batman to act exactly the same as the other heroes. That's part of what distinguishes him from the "here I come to save the daaaayyyy!" crowd. Ultimately, I just don't want all of the heroes to be clones of each other.

[Mia]

He was talking to gordon like a grown up. That's where the no more batjerk comes from. Previously Batman wouldn't have concented to sincerly being straight up partneres with Gordon.


That's not true. Just read any of the Batman books written by Rucka, Brubaker and even Jeph Loeb. And you will see plenty of examples of the admiration and respect that Batman has for Gordon. He sort of treats him like a combination between favourite uncle/role model.

[MicroZone]

BTW Dent is sooo talking to himself, welcome back two face


I don't believe that he was talking to himself. I think Batman was talking to Harvey, just like he was the one who phoned Jim up on page one to let him know that he was back.

[mohammedali]

Why would Batman be talking to Dent rather than taking him in or killing people?

Mohammed Ali

[Cayman]

Why would Batman be talking to Dent rather than taking him in or killing people?

Mohammed Ali

Yeah, I don't see Batman turning a blind eye to Harvey's murdering supervillians.

Cay

[stealthwise]

Yeah, I don't see Batman turning a blind eye to Harvey's murdering supervillians.

Cay

Did Bats actually see Harvey murder anyone though?

[Apathy Boy]

Did Bats actually see Harvey murder anyone though?Nope. And neither did we.

We saw someone dressed like Harvey throw the KGBeast off the roof, but we never saw his face. Nor did we see if guy-dressed-like-Harvey was the one who actually shot and killed the KGBeast afterwards.

I'm not saying it wasn't Harvey/Two-Face. But it seems a little too obvious with another seven parts of the story to go.

[UniqueFrequency]

quite interesting that Batman (if it really was him) was telling Harvey that he can stop now. especially when it seems 52 is setting up the Question as Gotham's protector

same thing as to why the Bat-signal has the bat-symbol on it. i think the preview pages of 52 show the Question taking down the bat-symbol and putting his symbol up instead

so interested to see how 52 ties everything together!!!

[TheBatGotHim]

Terrific issue. I love everything about it. Goodbye Bat-asshole, hello real Batman. At least IMO :D .

And the cover to this issue was great. I haven't loved a cover art this much since Hush. :)

[SpaceBooger]

i read this issue again and it reminded me of the BAS Gotham Knights episode (season 4) where scarface is released from arkam and working for wayne, but the thugs hire a midget to convince the ventrioquist (sp) that scarface is still in charge... ok i am rambling but relate that to harvy... someone may be pushing his buttons... did that make any sense?