CBR NEWS: Nicieza talks "Thunderbolts"

[Arune Singh]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=6800

The Thunderbolts have been walking the road to redemption for a long time. Next month the team reaches it’s milestone 100th issue and celebrates by changing their books title from “New Thunderbolts” to “Thunderbolts” and returning to the series’ original numbering. CBR News spoke to “Thunderbolts” writer Fabian Nicieza about the special issue and what’s next for Marvel Comics team of repenting rogues.

[protege]

Question; how would Cable know about the Tbolts attack? Why do i feel there's a rematch with the new Avengers coming up after this? With the team dynamic altered, it could be an interesting rematch- hope the Tbolts have some new members too...

[Babylon23]

New Thunderbolts has been one of Marvel's best and most consistent books since it began. It's great to see CBR giving the book some publicity. Hopefully, new readers will check out #100.

[StoneGold]

Question; how would Cable know about the Tbolts attack?
Because Cable is now the master of electronic information.

[Bruce Wayne Jr.]

Nice that he touched on the ties between T-Bolts, Cable & Deadpool, and New Avengers. I've definately been enjoying Fabian's corner of the Marvel Universe.

[Taskmaster]

Lord I love Thunderbolts, can't wait until issue 100 drops. I really hope we see more old T-Bolts return, plus I love the fact that Nighthawk has joined the team

[XPac]

Nice that he touched on the ties between T-Bolts, Cable & Deadpool, and New Avengers. I've definately been enjoying Fabian's corner of the Marvel Universe.

I actually thought that was a pretty weak resolution to that whole NA fiasco.

He borrows the Avengers and starts this big storyline with Carol, Pym, and the CSA bugging all the heroes. Then it's basically resolved in an entirely different book. I almost thing the NA pretty much got whored out there for no reason.

[Moonstonelover]

It isn't the first time something intersting begins in tbolts then a "bigger" book gets to disregard it, or ignore it, it is sad, because despite my bias, wht the other books does with hte plot thread is more often than not, not that satisfying and the potential that i saw in what fabin could do with it seemed so much better

[Dark Soul # 7]

I can hardly wait for T-bolts#100 to come.
Along with Annihilation: Prologue it will be the first comic I recieve from ordering over the internet.

[XPac]

It isn't the first time something intersting begins in tbolts then a "bigger" book gets to disregard it, or ignore it, it is sad, because despite my bias, wht the other books does with hte plot thread is more often than not, not that satisfying and the potential that i saw in what fabin could do with it seemed so much better

But to kind of paraphrase what Fabian said, he was playing in someone else's sandbox.

That's why I don't think crossovers like this should happen unless the writers of BOTH books are on the same page.

When Busiek was writing Avengers, their crossovers worked out flawlessly because the writers of both books communucated and worked together. But that's obviously not really the case with Fabian and Bendis... he borrowed Bendis team and used them in a way that was completely ignored by the rest of Marvel.

In my opinion, Fabian shoudln't have used the characters without working it out with Bendis so that the things they did would reflect in each others books. Even if it's not in some significant way, things should at least be acknowledged. It makes it feel like all this isn't happening in the same universe when that happens.

[Crimson]

I tried the book a while back with the HoM and the arc before it and it was ok but I dropped it... it wasn't good enough for my pull list. I'll try out #100 though.

[Expletive Deleted]

You know what's fun about the renumbering? Since the post-Fabian T-Bolts only ran for six issues and the Avengers/T-Bolts mini ran for six issues, we can pretend there's been creative continuity!

[Moonstonelover]

The problem, as i see it is, avengers is seen as first tier, even when the creative team on it is far below that, and thus whatever happens in avengers needs to be seen as canon, and anyone elses work is always seen as lesser, regardless of the quality, the team work aspect reeks, imo, when that happens, but sometimes writers egos may get larger than their ability to deliver or to play with others on the team, and overall whent hat happens stories, across the titles suffer

[Michael P]

In my opinion, Fabian shoudln't have used the characters without working it out with Bendis so that the things they did would reflect in each others books.
Why extend him a courtesy he doesn't see fit to extend to others?

[XPac]

Why extend him a courtesy he doesn't see fit to extend to others?

To me it's more about extending a courtesy to the readers than a particular writer. Though again, if he's using characters in Bendis book, I think it's a practical courtesy.

If Bendis is using characters in another persons book, I would hope he would do the same.

It makes sense to ME anyways that crossovers should be a more colaborative thing.

[XPac]

The problem, as i see it is, avengers is seen as first tier, even when the creative team on it is far below that, and thus whatever happens in avengers needs to be seen as canon, and anyone elses work is always seen as lesser, regardless of the quality, the team work aspect reeks, imo, when that happens, but sometimes writers egos may get larger than their ability to deliver or to play with others on the team, and overall whent hat happens stories, across the titles suffer

There probably is some truth to that. New Avengers is the top selling on-going series in Marvel.

But again, beyond that it's Fabian usnig Bendis' characters since he's the one writing the Avengers book. If the roles were reversed and Bendis was using TBolt characters I'd argue Fabian would get dib regardless of which book sells more.

[Dermie]

But to kind of paraphrase what Fabian said, he was playing in someone else's sandbox.

That's why I don't think crossovers like this should happen unless the writers of BOTH books are on the same page.

It wasn't a crossover--it was a guest appearance, so that really isn't a fair comparison. If it were a crossover, then both writers would have been on the same page.

When Busiek was writing Avengers, their crossovers worked out flawlessly because the writers of both books communucated and worked together. But that's obviously not really the case with Fabian and Bendis... he borrowed Bendis team and used them in a way that was completely ignored by the rest of Marvel.

Well, aside from NA itself, what other Marvel book should have acknowledged the NA/T-Bolts fight? As for NA, Bendis is still catching up on his own storylines--it took a year to introduce the entire NA cast; he's just starting to deal with HoM fallout now, etc. He doesn't necessarily have time to acknowledge all of the NA guest appearances in other titles.

In my opinion, Fabian shoudln't have used the characters without working it out with Bendis so that the things they did would reflect in each others books. Even if it's not in some significant way, things should at least be acknowledged. It makes it feel like all this isn't happening in the same universe when that happens.

It would be nice if there could be a reference, but unfortunately that isn't always possible--and I don't think Fabian should have to co-ordinate everything with Bendis just to use characters for a guest appearance. Fabian cleaned up his own mess with the nano-probes, so there was no harm done.

[XPac]

It wasn't a crossover--it was a guest appearance, so that really isn't a fair comparison. If it were a crossover, then both writers would have been on the same page.



Well, aside from NA itself, what other Marvel book should have acknowledged the NA/T-Bolts fight? As for NA, Bendis is still catching up on his own storylines--it took a year to introduce the entire NA cast; he's just starting to deal with HoM fallout now, etc. He doesn't necessarily have time to acknowledge all of the NA guest appearances in other titles.



It would be nice if there could be a reference, but unfortunately that isn't always possible--and I don't think Fabian should have to co-ordinate everything with Bendis just to use characters for a guest appearance. Fabian cleaned up his own mess with the nano-probes, so there was no harm done.


What other books should have acknowledged what happened in TBolts? How about Spiderman in the Other storyline when Yellow Jacket and Reed Richards were trying to help Spiderman. That was the possible opening when Pym bugged the FF, and some level of acknowledgement that that was going on would have kind of been cool.

Or Pulse... we've seen Carol hang with Jessica many times without a single thought bubble of guilt over the fact that Carol was plotting to ambush her best friends boyfriend.

Stuff like that I think adds a nice bit of cohesion to the marvel universe. Because I'm obviously not the only one who reads Fabians stuff thinking that it's basically ignored by the rest of the marvel universe (maybe that's a BIT too uncharistable but there's that vibe at least sometimes). Be it a cross over or guest appearance I just think it makes everything seem more meaningful. Like EVERYTHING we see matters.

We'll have to agree to disagree about coordinating guest appearances between writers... even if it's a bit of a time labor and inconvinience I think more times than not when writers are on the same page it just works better.

[Babylon23]

I don't think this is necessarily a writer problem. I think it's more of an editorial job. It used to be that Marvel editors could co-ordinate these things reasonably well. Nowadays, with Marvel's "no continuity" policies, these could of problems are commonplace (see Radioactive Man in Black Panther as another good example). If the editors had a problem with hte handling of the New Avengers in the story, they could have altered the story, or asked for a re-write.

Overall, I liked the Avengers appearance in Thunderbolts. Yes, they were comprehensively beaten, but by a team that had time to plan their attack, and took the Avengers by surprise. The T-Bolts had a clear, logical strategy, and used their knowledge of Avengers tactics to undermine their opponants. Had the fight continued, the Avengers would have won out in the end (they always do).

[Mean Mr Mustard]

I like Fabian and I hope he sticks around but he shouldn't have even entertained the thought of pulling that without consulting the other writer (in this case, Bendis) I know I wouldn't have appreciated it if one of my co-workers did something that affected my work without asking me and then I'm expected to help him deal with the consequences.

And I agree that editors are not without guilt but I think the right thing is to talk it with the writer first and then take it to the editor. The writer is the one that's going to have to go with it, the editor is just the referee.

[XPac]

I like Fabian and I hope he sticks around but he shouldn't have even entertained the thought of pulling that without consulting the other writer (in this case, Bendis) I know I wouldn't have appreciated it if one of my co-workers did something that affected my work without asking me and then I'm expected to help him deal with the consequences.

And I agree that editors are not without guilt but I think the right thing is to talk it with the writer first and then take it to the editor. The writer is the one that's going to have to go with it, the editor is just the referee.

I'm sure Bendis was consulted as far as Fabian using his characters. I just wish the writers had sat down, talked it out, and agreed how Fabians usage of the characters would work out in both books.

If Bendis honestly had no desire whatsoever to acknowledge what Fabian was doing with the Avengers, MAYBE he just shoudln't have used the Avengers. As it turns out, it ws pretty much a non-event anyways. The whole bugging thing was pretty much resolved off panel in an entirely different book so I'm not sure he needed to use the Avengers anyways in the story.

[Dermie]

What other books should have acknowledged what happened in TBolts? How about Spiderman in the Other storyline when Yellow Jacket and Reed Richards were trying to help Spiderman.

That would have been an inappropriate distraction, imo. It didn't have any impact in what was happening in Spidey's book, so it would be rather difficult to work it in in a natural way.

Or Pulse... we've seen Carol hang with Jessica many times without a single thought bubble of guilt over the fact that Carol was plotting to ambush her best friends boyfriend.

The Pulse is on a bimonthly schedule and can barely keep up with its own storylines--Bendis meant to have Jessica Jones acknowledge the death of Scott Lang, and that never happened simply because he just didn't have time to fit it in and lost his window of opportunity in the bimonthly schedule. There would be no time for him to squeeze in someone else's storyline.

Stuff like that I think adds a nice bit of cohesion to the marvel universe.

I agree...but the fact of the matter is that it isn't always possible to do it. Its regrettable, but its the way it is.

We'll have to agree to disagree about coordinating guest appearances between writers... even if it's a bit of a time labor and inconvinience I think more times than not when writers are on the same page it just works better.

The problem is that these characters appear in so many different titles. Spider-Man has 3 or 4 different solo books. Wolverine has a solo book, plus at least one X-Book. Captain America has a solo book. Iron Man has a solo book (in theory). Sentry has a miniseries. That's not even talking guest appearances yet--that's just what the NA characters have on a regular basis. Then add all the guest appearances that these characters make, individually or as a team, in various other Marvel titles.
If Bendis had to co-ordinate with every single one of these writers every time any of them wanted to have a guest appearance by a New Avenger, he simply would not have time to write his own books. That is part of the reason the books have editors--to try and handle some of that co-ordination because the writers just don't have the time to do it all themselves.

If Bendis honestly had no desire whatsoever to acknowledge what Fabian was doing with the Avengers, MAYBE he just shoudln't have used the Avengers.

Why should Fabian not be allowed to have a guest appearance just because someone else doesn't want to acknowledge his story? That makes no sense. It would have been nice if Bendis had been able to work in an acknowledgement of the storyline...but it wasn't necessary. The T-Bolts story was still able to stand on its own without NA making reference to it. And using the New Avengers allowed Fabian to get the book some attention and draw in new readers, which is important. There is no reason he should have to give that up just because Bendis didn't have the time and/or desire to deal with the story.

[Mean Mr Mustard]

To me, if you want to use, say, Mr Fantastic in Spider-Man to have a fatherly talk with Pete where they discuss science, life, girls and he ends up giving him some sort of aid to bring down a villain, its perfect. Do so. Unless Reed is supposed to be in space or something, I won't have any problem with it.

However... If you want to have She-Hulk in Spider-Man, talking to Parker about how she hated being in the Fantastic Four because she thinks Sue is a bitch... Well, you should talk to the guys writing Shulk and FF.

[XPac]

Why should Fabian not be allowed to have a guest appearance just because someone else doesn't want to acknowledge his story? That makes no sense. It would have been nice if Bendis had been able to work in an acknowledgement of the storyline...but it wasn't necessary. The T-Bolts story was still able to stand on its own without NA making reference to it. And using the New Avengers allowed Fabian to get the book some attention and draw in new readers, which is important. There is no reason he should have to give that up just because Bendis didn't have the time and/or desire to deal with the story.

If Fabian honestly thought his particular approach here was going to win over New Avengers fans to the Tbolt book, I'm thinking perhaps he maybe should have approached that a bit differently.

As for my problem with the way this was handled... Carol Danvers was put into the story then removed because another writer had plans for her. It was basically resolved off panel. Writers have plans for Pym too so he seemingly will be written out as well. The whole bugging fiasco dealt with in another book and resolved off panel. NA are ignoring the whole thing and frankly Fabian doesn't seem too interested in bringing them back into it either... again, a whole lot of stuff is presumably occuring off panel.

I don't know about anyone else but I feel a bit rip offed here. That WHOLE storyline is seemingly being taken apart and dismantled off panel because different writers have ideas about using the characters. And that to me is the problem with not having all the writers getting on the same page here. I don't know about anyone else, but I prefer when this stuff actually occurs ON panel where I can actually see it happening. I'd almost argue that people were better off NOT reading the TBolts in regard to understanding what's going on with some of these characters since it more conflicts than adds to whats going on with them outside of Fabians corner of the universe.

[Babylon23]

If Fabian honestly thought his particular approach here was going to win over New Avengers fans to the Tbolt book, I'm thinking perhaps he maybe should have approached that a bit differently.

As for my problem with the way this was handled... Carol Danvers was put into the story then removed because another writer had plans for her. It was basically resolved off panel. Writers have plans for Pym too so he seemingly will be written out as well. The whole bugging fiasco dealt with in another book and resolved off panel. NA are ignoring the whole thing and frankly Fabian doesn't seem too interested in bringing them back into it either... again, a whole lot of stuff is presumably occuring off panel.

I don't know about anyone else but I feel a bit rip offed here. That WHOLE storyline is seemingly being taken apart and dismantled off panel because different writers have ideas about using the characters. And that to me is the problem with not having all the writers getting on the same page here. I don't know about anyone else, but I prefer when this stuff actually occurs ON panel where I can actually see it happening. I'd almost argue that people were better off NOT reading the TBolts in regard to understanding what's going on with some of these characters since it more conflicts than adds to whats going on with them outside of Fabians corner of the universe.

This is why I blame editorial. Ficieza sets up a storyline in Thunderbolts, then has to cancel his plans and discard the story because other writers have plans for the characters he was using.

If editorial was doing it's job, and someone (like an EIC) was co-ordinating the efforts on the books, this problem wouldn't have occurred. If the editors had informed Nicieza that there were plans for Warbird, he could have discarded his story before it was written, or rewritten it to include a different character.

[XPac]

This is why I blame editorial. Ficieza sets up a storyline in Thunderbolts, then has to cancel his plans and discard the story because other writers have plans for the characters he was using.

If editorial was doing it's job, and someone (like an EIC) was co-ordinating the efforts on the books, this problem wouldn't have occurred. If the editors had informed Nicieza that there were plans for Warbird, he could have discarded his story before it was written, or rewritten it to include a different character.

I think Marvel editors seem to be fairly content with the philosophy of just ignoring what's going on in the Fabian-verse. For them, it does seem to be the easiest sollution. Sucks to be Fabian though, since it forces him to work that much harder to try and fit what he's doing into the tapestry everyone else is working on.

[Moonstonelover]

WEll Tom B has been a big backer of fabian and tbolts, and i know supports the book, so it makes me think bendis is given way more power than he needs to have.

[Babylon23]

I think Marvel editors seem to be fairly content with the philosophy of just ignoring what's going on in the Fabian-verse. For them, it does seem to be the easiest sollution. Sucks to be Fabian though, since it forces him to work that much harder to try and fit what he's doing into the tapestry everyone else is working on.

I don't think it's just Fabian's corner of the MU. I think the editors ignore a lot of what's going on in most of the books outside of their own titles. Fabian does seem to work a bit harder to maintain continuity, which is one of the things I like about his writing.

[XPac]

WEll Tom B has been a big backer of fabian and tbolts, and i know supports the book, so it makes me think bendis is given way more power than he needs to have.

Well, again the thing is Fabian was using Avenger characters. I believe Fabian himself said something to the effect that Bendis had dibs and he was playing in someone elses sandbox. So Bendis probably should have more say in how Avenger characters are used or not used since he's the Avenger writer.

If the roles were reversed and another writer was using a TBolt character, I'd say Fabian would have more say since that's his sandbox the other writer was playing it.

In a more perfect world, these things would be discussed and plannned more ahead of time between writers so such conflicts in their usage can be avoided. Tragically we don't life in such a world.