Earth 8?

[Nessor Sille]

Waid and Johns mentioned that Breach "is the Captain Atom of Earth 8" in the latest Wizard.

I'm confused. What was Earth 8, and isn't Breach brand new?

[heystacy]

I read that too. I suppose that any new Earths that will pop up will have an alternate version of heroes on them. Very weird. I thnink they wanted to use the original Captian Atom, but he was unavailble.

[PatrickG]

Waid and Johns mentioned that Breach "is the Captain Atom of Earth 8" in the latest Wizard.

I'm confused. What was Earth 8, and isn't Breach brand new?

Earth-8 was never before seen and yes Breach is new.

The idea is that all new characters or developments Post-Crisis are the result of never-before-seen Pre-Crisis Earths being merged into the single, post-Crisis Earth.

We saw hints of this in the "Return of Donna Troy" mini.

[PatrickG]

As an example...

Steel, Superboy and the Eradicator might have existed on never-before-seen earths Pre-Crisis.

Donna Troy was a Darkstar on one earth.

Byrne's Krypton existed Pre-Crisis on a never-before-seen Earth.

So did Kyle Rayner, possibly.

[Apathy Boy]

As an example...

Steel, Superboy and the Eradicator might have existed on never-before-seen earths Pre-Crisis.

Donna Troy was a Darkstar on one earth.

Byrne's Krypton existed Pre-Crisis on a never-before-seen Earth.

So did Kyle Rayner, possibly.To clarify, I think DC is saying that all of these characters would have been found on Earth-8. So if there had not been a crisis, John Byrne's Man of Steel would've been the Earth-8 counterpart to Earth-1's Kal-El and Earth-2's Kal-L; Kyle Rayner would be the Earth-8 counterpart to Earth-1's Hal Jordan and Earth-2's Alan Scott; and Breach would be the Earth-8 counterpart to Earth-4's Captain Atom.

My question is, Earth-8? 3 was the Crime Syndicate's earth and 4 was the Charlton earth. What was 5-7?

[LordEd1976]

To clarify, I think DC is saying that all of these characters would have been found on Earth-8. So if there had not been a crisis, John Byrne's Man of Steel would've been the Earth-8 counterpart to Earth-1's Kal-El and Earth-2's Kal-L; Kyle Rayner would be the Earth-8 counterpart to Earth-1's Hal Jordan and Earth-2's Alan Scott; and Breach would be the Earth-8 counterpart to Earth-4's Captain Atom.

My question is, Earth-8? 3 was the Crime Syndicate's earth and 4 was the Charlton earth. What was 5-7?

I believe Lady Quark's Earth is Earth-6. Earth's 5 and 7 are Earth-S (which is the former home of the Marvel family, the Bullets, Spy Smasher, and other Fawcett characters) and Earth-X (the world the Freedom Fighters crossed over to.)

My question about Earth-8 is regarding heroes w/out counterparts. Do we consider guys like Booster Gold, Steel (John Henry Irons), all the heroes introduced in that Bloodlines cross-over, the Power Company, and the Ultra-Marines people that were meant to be on Earth-8?

[PatrickG]

Well, Booster Gold technically debuted before the Crisis changes hit and had ties to the Legion. Hard to say.

Also, half the Ultra-Marines are already pre-Crisis Earth-1 characters anyway...

[Paul Newell]

According to the list in the Absolute Crisis compendium, Earth-5 was a world shown in Detective Comics #500 where there was no Paradise Island or Krypton, but there was a Batman.

[Nessor Sille]

"To Kill a Legend" was the title. The Phantom Stranger gives the Earth-1 Batman the chance to save the lives of Thomas and Martha Wayne on an alternate Earth.

Powerful story.

[Paul Newell]

Sounds excellent! Y'know if it wouldn't take a year to type out the list of Earths would be great online....Hmmmm...Maybe a "Feature Earth of the week" thread would be kinda fun... :)

[Naldo]

I guess that solves the "Multiverse or No-Multiverse" question.

Answer? Multiverse!

[JKCarrier]

Waid and Johns mentioned that Breach "is the Captain Atom of Earth 8" in the latest Wizard.

I haven't seen the article, but it sounds like they were just being sarcastic.

[joint venture]

i'm still a little bit skeptical about a multiverse. don't you feel we're being fed crap from every side, even if the multiverse comes back from the dead; at least for some issues.

too complicated, it will come back for some issues, but never for real.

if the multiverse came back. would everone know they "died" already? what about he ones who are alive?

would they remember and tell everyone else: "hey, we revived your world and all of you because Old Supes didn't want his old hag to die..."

not to mention a power-hungry Luthor who is able to shape, merge and create universes.

Luthor is dying at the end of this series, my guess is The 3 kill him and go into hiding for a year, or something like that.

but no multiverse, and no more mindwipings consequentially.

[Calybos]

There's plenty of Earths to choose from.

http://captain.custard.org/classic/multi3.html

And don't forget Earth-12!

[Nessor Sille]

I haven't seen the article, but it sounds like they were just being sarcastic.


They said it as part of their guide to the IC issues, revealing why Breach was among the heroes included on Alexander Luthor's device.

[lordofhonor]

Breach is the Eart-Eight "Captain Atom", like Kyle Rayaner is the Earth-Eight "Green Lantern", Helena Bertinelli is the Earth-Eight "Huntress", Jason Rusch is the Earth-Eight "Firestorm" and all the caracters created after Crisis are from Earth-Eight. Read IC #5, it is all there... Current Earth is a amalgam of all Earths before Crisis, not only the five remainings in CoIE #10...

[DCKar2nist]

Also, half the Ultra-Marines are already pre-Crisis Earth-1 characters anyway...

I didn't know this could you elaborate?

And does anyone know what happened to the breach series? Was it cancelled due to sales?

[Xero]

Wasn't Dark Angel from Earth 8? You know the version of Donna Troy that served as the Anti Monitors Harbinger?

[GreenHornet]

Didn't see this before I posted my Capt Atom from Earth 8 I for 1 need a guide.

[Tennoarashi]

Wasn't Dark Angel from Earth 8? You know the version of Donna Troy that served as the Anti Monitors Harbinger?Dark Angel was Earth-7.

[Zero Hunter]

What was the earth shown that was in an book years after Crisis where the heroes tried to stop the antimatter wave there but failed. Everyone on that earth was dark complected. It was sort of a lost tale of the Crisis and took place during the events of the Crisis. Was it Earth 9? I can't even remember what book this one appeared in. Anyone else remember what I am talking about here?

[Paul Newell]

What was the earth shown that was in an book years after Crisis where the heroes tried to stop the antimatter wave there but failed. Everyone on that earth was dark complected. It was sort of a lost tale of the Crisis and took place during the events of the Crisis. Was it Earth 9? I can't even remember what book this one appeared in. Anyone else remember what I am talking about here?
That was Earth-D. It appeared in the Legends of the DCU Special.

[Zero Hunter]

Thats it! Thanks Paul that was really bugging me not remembering it.

[Xero]

Dark Angel was Earth-7.

Thanks guy!

[Super-Skrull]

Do you suppose other residents of Earth-8 would have been Will Payton, Jean-Paul Valley, Artemis, and the Peter David Supergirl?

[Mulett]

Breach is the Eart-Eight "Captain Atom", like Kyle Rayaner is the Earth-Eight "Green Lantern", Helena Bertinelli is the Earth-Eight "Huntress", Jason Rusch is the Earth-Eight "Firestorm" and all the caracters created after Crisis are from Earth-Eight.

The question is - if the Multiverse had survived, would these characters have still become 'heroes' on Earth-8?

Kyle Rayner, for instance. His origin as a Green Lantern is linked very definitely to Hal Jordan and the 'final' power ring. What if Hal didn't exist in the Earth-8 universe? And isn't Oa supposed to be the only planet that does not exist in any other universe other than Earth-One's? In which case, Kyle wouldn't have become a Green Lantern at all.

Same could be said for Jason (who took over from Ronnie Raymond in a pretty direct way too).

[stealthwise]

Do you suppose other residents of Earth-8 would have been Will Payton, Jean-Paul Valley, Artemis, and the Peter David Supergirl?

I would say so, yeah. Basically any "legacy" type characters who took over the mantle of a previous character would probably have existed on Earth-8, from what I can gather.

Not sure about the Jack Knight Starman, but probably not for him.

[Buried Alien]

I would say so, yeah. Basically any "legacy" type characters who took over the mantle of a previous character would probably have existed on Earth-8, from what I can gather.

Earth-Eight is apparently "Earth-Every Significant Character We Created After COIE." Tim Drake was probably an Earth-Eight resident as well, as is Cassie Wonder Girl, Cassandra Batgirl, Bart Allen, etc.


Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Kevinroc]

Earth-Eight is apparently "Earth-Every Significant Character We Created After COIE." Tim Drake was probably an Earth-Eight resident as well, as is Cassie Wonder Girl, Cassandra Batgirl, Bart Allen, etc.


Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I'd toss my hat on Bart actually not being an Earth-8 character. Mostly because of his very established ties to Barry Allen. Unless Barry also had an Earth-8 Flash counterpart who went to the future.

[glennsim]

I'd toss my hat on Bart actually not being an Earth-8 character. Mostly because of his very established ties to Barry Allen. Unless Barry also had an Earth-8 Flash counterpart who went to the future.

It's unclear how Earth 8 worked, though. It's possible Bart might have lived in the future of Earth 8, as the grandson of the Flash, but without taking on the identity of Impulse/Kid Flash.

Or he could have still been Bart Allen/Kid Flash but without being from the future and the grandson of another Flash.

That is, it's possible that the Earth 8 version could be as different from the Earth Only version as the Earth 1 version of Superman is different from the Earth Only Superman. Or any other character whose background was changed after the Crisis.

We don't know what the "pre-Crisis" version of these Earth 8 characters was like.

[bannermanonemillion]

Is it possible that on Earth-8 Jean Paul Valley would have become Batman instead of Bruce Wayne?

I think the whole idea of Earth-8 is that certain "new" characters that have been introduced to replace older versions would have been the "originals" on Earth-8.

I'd imagine that there's no Hal Jordan on Earth-8 therefore Kyle wouldn't have been in anyone's shadow. The Guardians would've chosen him first because he'd be the only one on Earth worthy of the most powerful weapon in the universe.

You could also say that on another Earth, John Stewart would be the "only" GL. And on another it would have been only Guy Gardner. Or on yet another Alan Scott would be immortal and retain his title of Green Lantern.

But since the Earths were merged we got a whole gaggle of GLs on one planet.

Makes sense to me.

Same for Flash. What if on one Earth there was no Barry Allen Flash and Wally was the one true Flash of that Earth (think Animated DCU)? On another it might have been Max Mercury (a time-tossed Flash? Say it ain't so!).

[Buried Alien]

The newly revealed existence of Earth-Eight does answer the question of whether characters introduced into the DC Universe after the publication of CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS existed in any form in the Pre-COIE Multiverse. Tim Drake, Kyle Rayner, Helena Bertillini, Jean Paul Valley, Bane, Doomsday, etc., ostensibly were around before the Crisis, but none of them had crossed paths with superheroes/supervillains yet.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[soda]

except for one thing, Kyle Rayner's origin story was depedent on having Hal Jordan. No Hal Jordan, means no power ring for him to let go off, means no power ring for Kyle Rayner to find, means Kyle was never a green lantern. So, if Kyle is from Earth-8, that means he was the second GL on earth-8, after Hal. Now, it could be the earth-8 is the earth where Hal became Parallax and stayed dead, so Kyle could easily be earth-8's only GL, if it had continued to exist, post-crisis. Am a I right here, wrong, or missing something? Someone who knows more about GLs please help.

I think we're all dancing around the most important question though: Where was Harlequinn from? (Gosh, I love her). I think a character as cool as her should have her own earth, earth-Harle, where she's the only supervillian, however, her life is never complete until post-crisis when she lands on earth-1 and hooks up with poison ivy and the Joker. The thing with Harle though opens up another can of worms, Alexander Luthor said that Helena, Kyle, Jason and Breech were from Earth-8, but he didn't say that any other major characters were, so any other major post-crisis characters have indefinite pre-crisis origins, and because the old multi-verse was infinite, they could theoritically be from anywhere. We know where Helena, Kyle, Jason and Breech are from, but a lot of other characters (Harle, Bane, Azreal, etc.) remain an open question.

[Reggie Swats]

I just read #5 yesterday, and I never got the sense that they were implying all new post-crisis characters were from Earth 8. I thought they were just giving us a couple examples of characters that have popped up since then who would have originally been Earth-8 natives. I figure every Earth has unknown natives running around the DCU. Regardless, it was a brilliant twist and added some serious depth to the plot. It also goes a long way toward explaining the "carry on the mantle" mindset some of the new heroes have.

[Apathy Boy]

except for one thing, Kyle Rayner's origin story was depedent on having Hal Jordan. No Hal Jordan, means no power ring for him to let go off, means no power ring for Kyle Rayner to find, means Kyle was never a green lantern. So, if Kyle is from Earth-8, that means he was the second GL on earth-8, after Hal. Now, it could be the earth-8 is the earth where Hal became Parallax and stayed dead, so Kyle could easily be earth-8's only GL, if it had continued to exist, post-crisis. Am a I right here, wrong, or missing something? Someone who knows more about GLs please help.Or, it could've been that Kyle's origin might've been different on an unmerged earth. Or maybe it was slightly modified (e.g. a dying Abin Sur gives the ring to the first human he sees, Kyle Rayner, after Sinestro goes rogue and starts killing the Corps).

[Cotton]

This is what wikipedia says about Earth 8.


Earth 8:

Had the multiverse not been destroyed in the Crisis, Earth-Eight would have been the home of Breach, Kyle Rayner, Helena Bertinelli, Jason Rusch and other characters created after Crisis on Infinite Earths. It was introduced in Infinite Crisis.

DC Multiverse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse_%28DC_Comics%29#Earth-Twelve)

I'm not sure how accurate it is though.

[glennsim]

This is what wikipedia says about Earth 8.



DC Multiverse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse_%28DC_Comics%29#Earth-Twelve)

I'm not sure how accurate it is though.

Actually, that's pretty accurate, seeing as how that's the totality of information we know about it. Everything else is pure speculation.

[multiplexo]

I would say so, yeah. Basically any "legacy" type characters who took over the mantle of a previous character would probably have existed on Earth-8, from what I can gather.

Not sure about the Jack Knight Starman, but probably not for him.


and assume that the writers are doing the same then Jack Knight is not from Earth-8. He's the son of Ted Knight, the original Starman, who was from Earth-2.

[PatrickG]

Although...

hehehe

Just to throw a wrench in things...

Ted Knight had no sons on Earth-2.

So Jack Knight might have been his Earth-8 counterpart (or Earth-8 son) who got integrated into Ted Knight's history post-Crisis.

If you really wanna skew things, it's also possible that the JLA mindwipe of Dr. Light was an Earth-8 event that got integrated in post-Crisis.

[earth3luthor]

I'm confused. My copy of IC#5 lists four characters from Earth-8 and makes not mention of other characters being from Earth-8. I wouldn't count wikipedia as a valid source of info. Where was it stated that other characters are from Earth-8?

[stealthwise]

Although...

hehehe

Just to throw a wrench in things...

Ted Knight had no sons on Earth-2.

So Jack Knight might have been his Earth-8 counterpart (or Earth-8 son) who got integrated into Ted Knight's history post-Crisis.

If you really wanna skew things, it's also possible that the JLA mindwipe of Dr. Light was an Earth-8 event that got integrated in post-Crisis.

This idea might piss off everyone who hates the multi-verse and convoluted DCU continuity, but wouldn't it be cool to see a mini-series exploring that idea?

[Rio_de_Janeiro]

i see no reason why kyle would have to be dependant on hal in earth-8; after all, history and origins were quite different in several of the infinite earths. for instance, earth-d (which was shown sometime after in that legends of the dc universe special ) had very different versions of earth-1 characters. iirc, there was even a moment were people from earth-d are shunted to earth-1 (some millions, i think).


i wonder if earth-d inhabitants got merged together with their counterparts or if they actually started co-existing with their counterparts but with altered histories in order to cohabitate and not annull each other?

this could actually establish the "model of integration post-crisis" and it would make a difference.

if people from all surviving earths were MERGED together, then no one actually "died", for their essential-being was preserved. if people had to cohabitate, then we'd had the biggest massacre EVER.










i want to see sunshine superman again.







and the butterflies from earth-14.




rio

[multiplexo]

Although...

hehehe

Just to throw a wrench in things...

Ted Knight had no sons on Earth-2.

So Jack Knight might have been his Earth-8 counterpart (or Earth-8 son) who got integrated into Ted Knight's history post-Crisis.

Where do you get this from?

[SUPERECWFAN1]

What no one is mentioning is Waid and Johns word on the Legion of Superheroes. The 2nd version of the team 1994-2004 exists on Earth 2 as a possiblity. Thats what they have discussed doing had Earth 2 survived...this would be thier LSH.

The LSH that emerges in his title is in fact the Post Crisis Legion of Superheroes. Hmmm....ain't life grand people. ;)

[thehod]

IC #5 has been out about a week, and already people are confused about which Earth some characters may have come from or not.

Anyone who thinks that the multiple earths is a less complicated version of the DCU needs to read this thread.

And this from a guy who loves multiple earths.

[Buried Alien]

IC #5 has been out about a week, and already people are confused about which Earth some characters may have come from or not.

Anyone who thinks that the multiple earths is a less complicated version of the DCU needs to read this thread.

But is it an anguished, painful confusion that can't be resolved, or is it a momentary, intriguing confusion which gives satisfaction in figuring it all out?

Those familiar with the old Multiverse won't have any problems placing the established characters on their former Earths.

The new characters and new Earths offer an opportunity for new discoveries and new possibilities although frankly, I don't know if any of them will stick around Post-INFINITE CRISIS.


Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[titanfan]

[quote]I'm confused. My copy of IC#5 lists four characters from Earth-8 and makes not mention of other characters being from Earth-8. I wouldn't count wikipedia as a valid source of info. Where was it stated that other characters are from Earth-8?[/qupte]

People on the Geoff Johns board are seem to be quoting Johns in saying that a lot of post-crisis characters would have been on Earth-8. I couldn't find Geoff saying that himself on the boards though, so maybe he said it at the NYC Con that he was recently at. In either case, I'm not sure it's relevant to the story.

[glennsim]

I'm confused. My copy of IC#5 lists four characters from Earth-8 and makes not mention of other characters being from Earth-8. I wouldn't count wikipedia as a valid source of info. Where was it stated that other characters are from Earth-8?

It's just speculation.

[Just_A_Rat]

IC #5 has been out about a week, and already people are confused about which Earth some characters may have come from or not.

Anyone who thinks that the multiple earths is a less complicated version of the DCU needs to read this thread.

And this from a guy who loves multiple earths.

Well, this isn't multiple-earth confusion, it's "multiple-earths rammed together into one" confusion. If we still had the multiple earths, we wouldn't be trying to figure out which characters were from Earth-8, they would just be there.

[Xero]

I'd pay good money for an "Earths" mini-series focusing on stuff like life on Earth 8, or some of the other obscure but interesting Earths like Earth D.

By the way did Ultraa survive Maxima's death?

[Kent H]

I'd pay good money for an "Earths" mini-series focusing on stuff like life on Earth 8, or some of the other obscure but interesting Earths like Earth D.

By the way did Ultraa survive Maxima's death?

As in, Ultra the Multi-Alien? Well, he's seen in the background with Jemm in the IC 4 space battle scenes & Rann/Thanagar War Special. If you mean someone else, no clue.

As for Kyle, his dependency on Hal, & the Oans only existing in the E-1 universe, remember we have Alan Scott and Power Ring, both Green Lanterns, just with no connection to the Corps, so there could have been some other why for Kyle to gwt the ring, including still having a former bearer go Parallax (E-8 Sinestro?).

[Calybos]

I wouldn't get too bogged down in details about Earth-8 until there's some reason to think it will exist beyond the next two issues.

That said, I loved Earth-D too.

[Rhydaman]

Although...

hehehe

Just to throw a wrench in things...

Ted Knight had no sons on Earth-2.
Are you sure? Or is it just that Ted Knight's sons weren't mentioned in any of the E2 comics?

[jadegiant77]

None of the OYL titles seem to reference parallel earths(yet)...I wonder is the multiverse coming back?? :confused:

[bungi43]

Earth-Eight is apparently "Earth-Every Significant Character We Created After COIE." Tim Drake was probably an Earth-Eight resident as well, as is Cassie Wonder Girl, Cassandra Batgirl, Bart Allen, etc.


Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)


I don't know if I agree with that...
I'd think unrelated characters (huntress, kyle rayner..etc) would be on earth 8...but related chracters (and by related I mean have a direct reflection of someone else...such as Bart Allen, Connor Kent "clone of lex/superman) would be elsewhere

make sense?

[bungi43]

[quote]I'm confused. My copy of IC#5 lists four characters from Earth-8 and makes not mention of other characters being from Earth-8. I wouldn't count wikipedia as a valid source of info. Where was it stated that other characters are from Earth-8?[/qupte]

People on the Geoff Johns board are seem to be quoting Johns in saying that a lot of post-crisis characters would have been on Earth-8. I couldn't find Geoff saying that himself on the boards though, so maybe he said it at the NYC Con that he was recently at. In either case, I'm not sure it's relevant to the story.

i would think characters that don't have direct ties to other hero's would fit onto earth 8

but how could someone like Bart Allen...be on another earth from his uncle? Or superboy...be on another earth from who he was cloned??

[stealthwise]

[QUOTE=titanfan]

i would think characters that don't have direct ties to other hero's would fit onto earth 8

but how could someone like Bart Allen...be on another earth from his uncle? Or superboy...be on another earth from who he was cloned??

They would still exist on Earth-8, just would have different origins.

[Leebenhouse]

Maybe it was the Earth 8 Hal that went crazy, and when Earth 8 Hal merged with the Earth 1 Hal, Earth 1 Hal's future got corrupted by his counterpart. Logically I think that Earth 8 had a lot of influence over the Post Crisis Earth, as Jason Rusch's origin is directly tied to Identity Crisis.

I'd buy an Earth-8 Mini series. As long as it was an Elseworlds series.

[EZMOHR]

Maybe it was the Earth 8 Hal that went crazy, and when Earth 8 Hal merged with the Earth 1 Hal, Earth 1 Hal's future got corrupted by his counterpart. Logically I think that Earth 8 had a lot of influence over the Post Crisis Earth, as Jason Rusch's origin is directly tied to Identity Crisis.

I'd buy an Earth-8 Mini series. As long as it was an Elseworlds series.


Maybe the Earth 8 Hal was a yellow fear monster.

[BoosterBronze]

This idea might piss off everyone who hates the multi-verse and convoluted DCU continuity, but wouldn't it be cool to see a mini-series exploring that idea?

I was totally thinking that! A Justice League book set on Earth-8 with Breach, Raynor, Huntress, Firestorm as the main characters in a world where they are the main heroes.