Waid/Kitson Legion of Super-Heroes: Wizard's IC Spoilers

[WAYNIAC5]

So the entore continuity of the waid legion appears to be taking place post Infinite Crisis timeline. Is the is the first appearance of teh post Infinite crisis DCU?

Thats how it looks to me.

I guess transversly are the JSA classified/legion appearances the last pre-infinite crisis legion appearances?

[davros42]

The JSA Classified Legion appearences were just halucinations by Psycho Pirate. They were definitely not the Pre-Crisis Legion anyway, wrong uniforms and code names (I seem to remember they made the Micro Lad joke).

But yes, supposedly the new Legion has been 1001 Years Later since it's start. However, we won't know the truth until next month, I suspect it won't be as cut and dried as all that...

[WAYNIAC5]

The JSA Classified Legion appearences were just halucinations by Psycho Pirate. They were definitely not the Pre-Crisis Legion anyway, wrong uniforms and code names (I seem to remember they made the Micro Lad joke).

But yes, supposedly the new Legion has been 1001 Years Later since it's start. However, we won't know the truth until next month, I suspect it won't be as cut and dried as all that...

I thought they were the sprouse era uniforms and thus pre-infinite crisis? ( not pre crisis, but pre-infinite crisis)

[Lex]

We're not even sure this future the Legion live in is in the DCU. They know all about the DC superheroes of the 20th/21st centuries, but that's only through old comic books. This Legion could possibly be taking place in a different place in the multiverse, if the universe remains split at the end of Infinite Crisis.

Or Waid could be intensionally keeping it vague because even he didn't know what the outcome of IC would be.

One thing to note: in the Titans/Legion one-shot, one of the factors that created this new Legion continuity was "a pounding on reality." So maybe when Kal-L broke out of Alex Luthor's paradise, the effects reached far into the future and caused these changes.

[Zero Hunter]

The Multiverse must already have existed in the Legion time other wise where would all the different versions of the Fatal Five had come form in the Titans/Legion special. The Waidverse is just another reality.

[Yoda]

In the new Wizard Waid states "the restart of the Legion of Superheroes in issue #1 of the new series was, in fact, our first glimpse into the post-Infinite Crisis DCU.

Johns states that the "Force that was pounding on Reality" in the Titans/Legion Special was Superboy-Prime. And that originally the Abnett-Lanning Legion was going to be the Earth-2 Legion, if Earth-2 had survived the original Crisis, and that "The current Legion is the future of our Earth."

That last statement by Johns is a little puzzeling because he says "our" Earth and not the Current DCU. Which leaves open the interpretation that this new Legion isn't on the same "Earth" as the DCU.

[Paul Newell]

And here's the quotes, thanks to Mon-El for sending them to me:

Teen Titans/Legion Special #1 (September 2004)

Johns: The banging against the walls of the timestream is Superboy Prime.

Mark Waid: We knew when we were writing this that we'd eventually reveal the Legion that people had been reading about was an alternate universe version. It's been our best-kept secret all along-that the restart of Legion of Super-Heroes in Issue #1 of the new series was, in fact, our first glimpse into post -Infinite Crisis DCU.

Johns: We discussed the possibility that the Legion you had been reading, the Legion written by Dan Abnett and Andy Lanning, would be the Earth-2 Legion. If Earth-2 had survived the original Crisis, that would have been their Legion. The current Legion is the future of our Earth.

[Apathy Boy]

That's really neat. It doesn't make that Titans/Legion story any less disappointing, but it's neat.

[davros42]

I thought they were the sprouse era uniforms and thus pre-infinite crisis? ( not pre crisis, but pre-infinite crisis)

OK, here goes (and try this for complicated) The Legionaires who appear to Power Girl are definitely the post-Infinite Crisis version. Saturn Girl has a cape and "speaks" telepathically, Lightning Lad's suit bolts glow, Micro Lad, Star Boy is black, etc.

BUT, in Power Girl's brief "flashback" to the "30th Century", she's wearing the Legionaires-style Andromeda costume and everone appears to be wearing uniforms that are closer to that style (big clunky yellow belts and all, no cape for Saturn Girl, etc)

But they're all a figment of Psycho Pirate's imagination anyway... But they existed definitively at that moment even though they're post-IC...

[Nessor Sille]

...Earth-2?

According to Geoff Johns and Mark Waid in the latest 'Wizard', that is the case. The Legion that existed from 1994-2004 was actually the Legion that would have formed on Earth-2, had the original CoIE never happened.

And now that team (except for Shikari) has presumably been shuffled over to the reinstated Earth-2.

Well, I'm glad they weren't deleted. Still, I'm very, very nervous about the fate of the new Earth 2 now.

[PatrickG]

...Earth-2?

According to Geoff Johns and Mark Waid in the latest 'Wizard', that is the case. The Legion that existed from 1994-2004 was actually the Legion that would have formed on Earth-2, had the original CoIE never happened.

And now that team (except for Shikari) has presumably been shuffled over to the reinstated Earth-2.

Well, I'm glad they weren't deleted. Still, I'm very, very nervous about the fate of the new Earth 2 now.

That makes Lar Gand's situation a headache though, doesn't it?

[Nessor Sille]

That last statement by Johns is a little puzzeling because he says "our" Earth and not the Current DCU. Which leaves open the interpretation that this new Legion isn't on the same "Earth" as the DCU.

So why was the DCU JLA seen in the "historical flashback" on the first few pages of issue #1?

[Nessor Sille]

That makes Lar Gand's situation a headache though, doesn't it?


Not really. See, the idea is that the Reboot Legion would've have been the Earth-2 Legion if Crisis -hadn't- happened. Since it did, they were merged into the history of the new, combined universe.

So Lar belonged to the same universe they did, as there was only "one" for everyone to live in at the time he joined.

[PatrickG]

Not really. See, the idea is that the Reboot Legion would've have been the Earth-2 Legion is Crisis -hadn't- happened. Since it did, they were merged into the history of the new, combined universe.

So Lar belonged to the same universe they did, as there was only "one" for everyone to live in at the time he joined.

Well, I got that.

But we now have four accounts of how he was placed in the Phantom Zone.

At this point, I think they should just reboot Lar Gand and retell his story.

[Nessor Sille]

Well, I got that. But we now have four accounts of how he was placed in the Phantom Zone.



I know the Pre-Crisis, Glorithverse, and Kon-El versions of the story.

But 4th version?

Since he hasn't turned up (to my knowledge) since the DnA Legion vanished, what is this 4th account, and where was it told?

[Sabrinaset]

But we now have four accounts of how he was placed in the Phantom Zone.

At this point, I think they should just reboot...


Why is it every time I see the Legion, I keep thinking about "The Lathe of Heaven" by Ursula K. Le Guin?

[PatrickG]

I know the Pre-Crisis, Glorithverse, and Kon-El versions of the story.

But 4th version?

Since he hasn't turned up (to my knowledge) since the DnA Legion vanished, what is this 4th account, and where was it told?

Post-Crisis, Pre-Glorithverse, he was supposed to be from the Time Trapper's Pocket Universe.

There was also the Post-Glorithverse, Pre-Kon-El account where he died in Zero Hour and his future self took his past self's place.

I'd just assume they stick him in Smallville and have him encounter a young Clark Kent, raising questions about Clark's origins, before being carted off the the Zone.

[Nessor Sille]

Post-Crisis, Pre-Glorithverse, he was supposed to be from the Time Trapper's Pocket Universe.


Really?

After they revealed the "truth" about post-Crisis Silver Age Superboy, in lettercolumns the question of where Lar Gand came from came up.

The answer given was that since the Superman stories had already established the Trapper killed off all life in the Pocket Universe except for the beings living on Earth and Krypton, that Lar was a denizen of the post-Crisis DCU who the Trapper shuffled over.

So, his origin remained more or less the same, even if SA Superboy was now a pawn of the Trapper.

[PatrickG]

Really?

After they revealed the "truth" about post-Crisis Silver Age Superboy, in lettercolumns the question of where Lar Gand came from came up.

The answer given was that since the Superman stories had already established the Trapper killed off all life in the Pocket Universe except for the beings living on Earth and Krypton, that Lar was a denizen of the post-Crisis DCU who the trapper shuffled over.

So, his origin remained more or less the same, even if SA Superboy was now a pawn of the Trapper.

I didn't mean he was "from" the universe originally but that's where he got stuck inside the Phantom Zone.

Yeah, technically the same as his Pre-Crisis origin but I tend to make the distinction because the Pocket Universe had too many deviations from pre-Crisis for my money.

[Sabrinaset]

So basically, what you guys are saying is that Mon-El is the 31st century version of Hawkman! :D

[PatrickG]

In a sense.

While it made sense for the future to change to reflect the past, Mon-El was a 20th/21st century guy whose MODERN DAY life kept getting revised to be a better thematic fit for the various Legion incarnations he wound up joining.

[DCKar2nist]

And now that team (except for Shikari) has presumably been shuffled over to the reinstated Earth-2.

Earth-2? the same earth alex created at the end of IC#4?

I've got a question, it's only a "spoiler" if you haven't read IC #4...

On that last page we saw e1 next to e2, does that mean that the 2 earths are currently side-by-side in the same universe? or does that second earth currently reside in a new reinstated multiverse/dimension?

[Zero Hunter]

I am not sure how Waid could use M'Onel/Valor now in his new series with all the ties Lar Gand has to the current DCU. Unless of coarse he just creates a new one and ignores all the apperences that Lar had previously in the current DCU. Either that or have the Valor from "Earth 2 Legion" slide over to his univerese.

I personly think they should have just not said anything about what timeline was what and just had them all be alternate future timelines. This just seems liked Waid and Johns trying to cement in the current version as the real one to me when it really wasn't needed. It will probably come back to bite them sometime down the road just like all things like this do when having to deal with the Legion. Always better to leave a little mystery involved when it comes to the Legion.

[Paul Newell]

I am not sure how Waid could use M'Onel/Valor now in his new series with all the ties Lar Gand has to the current DCU. Unless of coarse he just creates a new one and ignores all the apperences that Lar had previously in the current DCU. Either that or have the Valor from "Earth 2 Legion" slide over to his univerese.

Well since this Legion series happens after Infinite Crisis ends he could just wait and use Lar in whatever form fits with whatever DCU we end up with. :)

[LoneWolf21]

Well, this was something they were considering doing, but didn't. This would also FUBAR Bart Allen's history too.

[Paul Newell]

Well, this was something they were considering doing, but didn't. This would also FUBAR Bart Allen's history too.
How does it affect Bart's origin?

[LoneWolf21]

How does it affect Bart's origin?

Bart was born in the 30th century, his cousin is Legion member XS, so if XS is retconned into an earth 2 character, so is Bart.

[Paul Newell]

Bart was born in the 30th century, his cousin is Legion member XS, so if XS is retconned into an earth 2 character, so is Bart.

It's possible that not all members would be retconned into Earth 2 characters. Look at the JSA, not all members were transferred over. At least Mr.Terrific and Dr. Midnite stayed on Earth 1.

[PatrickG]

Earth-2? the same earth alex created at the end of IC#4?

I've got a question, it's only a "spoiler" if you haven't read IC #4...

On that last page we saw e1 next to e2, does that mean that the 2 earths are currently side-by-side in the same universe? or does that second earth currently reside in a new reinstated multiverse/dimension?

They are currently in the same universe.

However, Adam Strange discovered an empty universe prior to the Rann-Thangar War.

And it sure seems, based on upcoming covers, that there will have to be multiple universes at some point in this story.

Not saying those universes will stick around but it just seems unlikely that we'll have five to ten+ earths sharing space.

[DCKar2nist]

I thought of that empty universe in Adam Strange #5-6 but the suneaters still trapped there so theres no going back.