On Conservatives and their love/respect for human life

[El Santo]

I'm not pointing fingers here, I'm just saying that all this stuff about Conservatives/Fundamentalists having such a great love for human life may be a bit exaggerated....example:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1571874/posts


An 85 year old woman dies. The first thing out of their mouths:


All I can is "better have died".

Let me squint and muster up a tear. Here we go, boo friggin hoo.

Good Riddence!

I think she was a despicably hateful and ugly woman. Her death does not diminish me in the least, so instead of asking for whom the bell tolls...I'll just say good riddiance.

The original butt-ugly feminist.

Like all other feminists

She now faces a Judge the democrats can't filibuster.

I wonder how she did, standing in front of Him?

Her crime? Being a notable feminist of the 1970's, and allegedly a Communist. Suggesting that women may have prospects other than raising children and doing housework. Supporting abortion rights. Even if you disagreed with some of those things, she was, at the most, a simple writer. She didn't kill anyone, order anyone to be killed, spread contagnion across the globe...we're not talking about Hitler or the head of some South American deathsquad. This is shameful behavior that speaks volumes about the utter destruction of Christian morality by the Right-wing nutbags who have taken a hold of it. As a human, an American, and a Christian, this is both embarassing and enraging to me. Now, there were a small number of people there with some sense of decency, who even criticized the others for their comments...but we're talking about a few drops of water in a sea of urine. What the hell is wrong with these people? And why can't we shoot them for sport?

[Gingold]

Judging conservatives, or any group for that matter, by the postings of a bunch of idiots over at Free Republic is ridiculous and worthless. I'm sure you could find similar stuff at liberal websites regarding the deaths of conservative figures.

While I don't agree with their political views, most of the conservatives/ republicans I know are passionate and sincere in their respect for life. Most of the conservatives who post on this board seem to be too.

[Samurai]

Judging conservatives, or any group for that matter, by the postings of a bunch of idiots over at Free Republic is ridiculous and worthless. I'm sure you could find similar stuff at liberal websites regarding the deaths of consertvative figures.

While I don't agree with their political views, most of the conservatives/ republicans I know are passionate and sincere in their respect for life. Most of the conservatives who post on this board seem to be too.
Exactly... shall I dig up the collective orgasm had on liberal sites about the guy who pissed on Reagan's grave? And it need not even be a conservative figure... remember Daily Kos' "Fuck them!" when refering to the Americans hung from a bridge and burned in Iraq?

[El Santo]

Exactly... shall I dig up the collective orgasm had on liberal sites about the guy who pissed on Reagan's grave? And it need not even be a conservative figure... remember Daily Kos' "Fuck them!" when refering to the Americans hung from a bridge and burned in Iraq?

That's wrong too, but you can at least argue that Reagan made actual decisions...not writings, but policy decisions, that killed people directly or inflicted suffering upon the world (supporting South American dictators who raped and murdered their way through the 80's comes to mind...).

And what the hell is the Daily Kos'?


As for Free Republic...these guys are not extremists among the right-wing set. They're the standard. Everything I see and read there matches perfectly with the crap I hear so-called "experts" like Anne Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, and Michael Savage vomit up whenever they manage to slither their way into the mainstream media. It's what I hear everytime I forget the lesson and decide to try reasoning with a Republican.

[The Humanist Hero]

I so wish the Republican party would adopt the Free Republic talking points.

They wouldn't get elected again...EVER.

[Sabrinaset]

I so wish the Republican party would adopt the Free Republic talking points.

They wouldn't get elected again...EVER.

Oddly enough, we keep hoping that the Democratic Party would adopt the talking points of the Democratic Underground or the Daily KOS :)

[Noah Johnson]

Oddly enough, we keep hoping that the Democratic Party would adopt the talking points of the Democratic Underground or the Daily KOS :)
Yeah? Find some calls for genocide on those sites before you start claiming equivalency. Find some enthusiastic support for terrorists killing people. Find some celebrations of charity workers being murdered.

All of the above are standard fare when right-wingers get to hide behind anonymity on these sites. I know it must bug you, and I'm pretty sure you're not one of the real nutjobs, but there is simply no way around the fact that the right wing in this country has a violence-loving, eliminationist side that there simply is not a left-wing equivalent to. There really isn't, and I've cited comparisons proving it before. I'm happy to cite them again, if anyone will read and consider them.

[The Humanist Hero]

Yeah? Find some calls for genocide on those sites before you start claiming equivalency. Find some enthusiastic support for terrorists killing people. Find some celebrations of charity workers being murdered.

All of the above are standard fare when right-wingers get to hide behind anonymity on these sites. I know it must bug you, and I'm pretty sure you're not one of the real nutjobs, but there is simply no way around the fact that the right wing in this country has a violence-loving, eliminationist side that there simply is not a left-wing equivalent to. There really isn't, and I've cited comparisons proving it before. I'm happy to cite them again, if anyone will read and consider them.
They recently closed threads on Free Republic in which several posters were expressing delight at the Muslims who died during the accidents in Mecca.

I guess some things are too embarassing even for them.

[kingdom2000]

Judge conservatives by Anne coulter and your good. Look at her website popularity, publishing, books, frequent tv and guess apearances, awards, etc and you can really only draw one conclusion: she is a beloved public and popular conservative and that her opinions represent the majority.

[Justin D.]

Yeah? Find some calls for genocide on those sites before you start claiming equivalency. Find some enthusiastic support for terrorists killing people. Find some celebrations of charity workers being murdered.

All of the above are standard fare when right-wingers get to hide behind anonymity on these sites. I know it must bug you, and I'm pretty sure you're not one of the real nutjobs, but there is simply no way around the fact that the right wing in this country has a violence-loving, eliminationist side that there simply is not a left-wing equivalent to. There really isn't, and I've cited comparisons proving it before. I'm happy to cite them again, if anyone will read and consider them.

That's the difference and it's a great, big important one that most, if not all, people who yell out stuff like, "Liberals are just as bad!" just don't get. Liberal, left-wing extremism isn't violent, destructive, and repressive the way conservative, right-wing extremism is.

Although, I think it's also important to note the importance of the word extremism. Even though I do see much too much of it, I don't consider the horrible comments of idiots on the linked site to be the norm of a majority of conservative people, but yet it's more likely that I'll see people defending the statements by trying to claim the "other side" does it too instead of simply condemning them as should be done.

[Justin D.]

For some morbid reason, I read another page of those comments. What sick, disgusting people. I don't care if they didn't like what she said or stood for. Their comments are foul and inhumane. She was a leader of a movement, not of a terrorist country. What they say on that site simply shocks me as it's not only incredibly uncalled for, but I thought there might be some sort of hyperbole server meltdown the more I read.

[Screwtape]

Judging conservatives, or any group for that matter, by the postings of a bunch of idiots over at Free Republic is ridiculous and worthless. I'm sure you could find similar stuff at liberal websites regarding the deaths of conservative figures.

While I don't agree with their political views, most of the conservatives/ republicans I know are passionate and sincere in their respect for life. Most of the conservatives who post on this board seem to be too.No, he's totally right. That's what we all think.

We actually wanted to sacrifice the old lady on an altar of Baal. That's why we were pissed when she died early.

[Charles RB]

So, an old woman who was a feminist once is dead and there's some arsewipes masturbating over the idea she's dead & will be sent to Hell.

Real fucking Christian of you.

[Screwtape]

That's the difference and it's a great, big important one that most, if not all, people who yell out stuff like, "Liberals are just as bad!" just don't get. Liberal, left-wing extremism isn't violent, destructive, and repressive the way conservative, right-wing extremism is. Oh, heavens, no. Left-wing extremism brings us upstanding citizens like Stalin and Hugo Chavez.

[Justin D.]

Oh, heavens, no. Left-wing extremism brings us upstanding citizens like Stalin and Hugo Chavez.

Did you just say Stalin was a left-wing extremist? Relative to actual ones today? It's these kind of comments that I don't know how to respond to without derision or altogether dismissal. Sorry, but that's just a weird thing to say.

Also, I never said liberal, left-wing extremism wasn't bad. Plus, you pretty much backed up the second thing I said in the post that you just happen to leave out when quoting me.

[Gail Simone]

There's no shortage of hypocrisy in either party, unfortunately.

Gail

[Screwtape]

Did you just say Stalin was a left-wing extremist? Relative to actual ones today? It's these kind of comments that I don't know how to respond to without derision or altogether dismissal. Sorry, but that's just a weird thing to say.

Also, I never said liberal, left-wing extremism wasn't bad. Plus, you pretty much backed up the second thing I said in the post that you just happen to leave out when quoting me.What? No, you made a ridiculous statement about righties being worse than lefties, that's all. I haven't even READ the comments by whoever was saying horrible things about old ladies. I'm sure they're awful.

But yes, Stalin was a left-wing extremist. So is Hugo Chavez. So is Fidel Castro. Communism is an expression of far-left ideology, all three of those guys are classic Communist dictators, and Stalin, at least, has done more horrible things than anyone in history, maybe even than Hitler.

People on both sides suck - partisanism, like religion, is an excuse, not a cause, of human misbehavior.

[Screwtape]

So, an old woman who was a feminist once is dead and there's some arsewipes masturbating over the idea she's dead & will be sent to Hell.

Real fucking Christian of you.Who is "you" in this sentence, out of curiosity?

[PatrickG]

I'm sick of the term "Unamerican". I'm sick of "communist" and/or "sympathizer" being four letter words.

There's nothing more American than being a Nazi, a Communist, a Jew, a Christian, a Muslim, a Capitalist or anything else you damn well please as long as you aren't denying other people to be what they damn well please too.

So what if she WAS a Communist? I really don't give a rip. I see nothing Unamerican in being a full-on Stalin supporter if that is what a person chooses to be.

[Justin D.]

What? No, you made a ridiculous statement about righties being worse than lefties, that's all. I haven't even READ the comments by whoever was saying horrible things about old ladies. I'm sure they're awful.

But yes, Stalin was a left-wing extremist. So is Hugo Chavez. So is Fidel Castro. Communism is an expression of far-left ideology, all three of those guys are classic Communist dictators, and Stalin, at least, has done more horrible things than anyone in history, maybe even than Hitler.

People on both sides suck - partisanism, like religion, is an excuse, not a cause, of human misbehavior.

I said right-wing extremists tend to be more violent, destructive, and repressive than left-wing extremists are. I still stand by it. Hell, part of conservatism is to repress. I was generally echoing what Noah said and adding my own bit. Many right-wing extremists are part of the chorus that screams "Kill! War is the way!" while many left-wing extremists are part of the chorus that screams "Let's talk! There's always a peaceful way out!" when the truth is that there's usually some middleground that works the best and is rarely, if ever, utilized.

I still think it's ridiculous you're using Stalin as an example of a left-wing extremist. That's literally the first time I've ever heard someone try to apply Stalin to anything modern, especially modern liberalism. He was the most murderous dictator in history.

[Cam63]

An arsehole will always be an arsehole.

It don't matter what their flag, religion or political persuasion is.

[Boldido]

Given the title of this thread, I was hoping to see some real intelligent discussion on the hypocrisy that is displayed by many who claim to be pro-life, such as their frothy mouth support of the death penalty.

Instead I see a "Your nutjob internet posters living in their mother's basements are worse than our nutjob internet posters living in their mother's basements."

Worst thread ever.

[Cam63]

Worse than the thread with Man Faye as the star ?

[Charles RB]

Oh, heavens, no. Left-wing extremism brings us upstanding citizens like Stalin

You're assuming Stalin actually believed in Communism and not "hey, I can get myself lots of personal power this way!".

Who is "you" in this sentence, out of curiosity?

The Free Republic poster quoted at the start of the thread, who was going "yay, an old woman is DEAD!".

[Erik Burnham]

I said right-wing extremists tend to be more violent, destructive, and repressive than left-wing extremists are. I still stand by it. Hell, part of conservatism is to repress.

Uhm... political correctness and "you can't say that" is typically pushed a little more on the left hand side, no? No matter whether you think it's good or bad, it is repression. Or censorship and editing of, say, entertainment? You'll find that on both sides of the spectrum. That is repression.

And left wing extremists... how about E.L.F.? They're pretty violent, and getting moreso. There are other eco-terrorists (I don't mean activists, I don't mean protesters, I mean folks who cause damage to make a point) and they would fall under a more liberal banner. Millions of destruction right there.

This is *not* discounting anything on the right, but some people will always see the bad more in another side than they do on their own.

Just about all political extremism is destructive and repressive, and you can find violence all over the map, too. To say "well, they're WORSE" is a weak excuse no matter who uses it -- if it's wrong, it's wrong.

And I know that because I gave a coupla liberal, or left-wing examples someone may come back with a couple of conservative or right-wing examples. I don't care. I don't need them -- they aren't the point. My point is that there is bad extremism on either side, and 'they're worse' is a piss-poor excuse no matter who happens to say it.

I don't consider the horrible comments of idiots on the linked site to be the norm of a majority of conservative people, but yet it's more likely that I'll see people defending the statements by trying to claim the "other side" does it too instead of simply condemning them as should be done.

Which isn't to far dissimilar from your statement that "these extremists aren't as bad as those extremists," really.

To this topic, I'd like to think people should have some respect for the dead - AND! - go by the old 'if you can't say something nice...' oh, crap. Repression! (;

No offense meant to you, Justin, since I was quoting you there. I've been hearing similar things from varied people (words and examples changed depending on their stripe) this just put me over the top.

[Lubichev]

Judge conservatives by Anne coulter and your good. Look at her website popularity, publishing, books, frequent tv and guess apearances, awards, etc and you can really only draw one conclusion: she is a beloved public and popular conservative and that her opinions represent the majority.
And that right there scares the shit out of me. Do I really want to become a US citizen?

[Justin D.]

No offense taken, Erik. You have some valid points. I think we should just go with what Cam says on this one.

An arsehole will always be an arsehole.

It don't matter what their flag, religion, or political persuasion is.

[Noah Johnson]

Uhm... political correctness and "you can't say that" is typically pushed a little more on the left hand side, no? No matter whether you think it's good or bad, it is repression. Or censorship and editing of, say, entertainment? You'll find that on both sides of the spectrum. That is repression.

However, they are not calling for those who disagree with them to be slaughtered en masse, which the right wing routinely does. So no, there is no equivalency.

And left wing extremists... how about E.L.F.? They're pretty violent, and getting moreso. There are other eco-terrorists (I don't mean activists, I don't mean protesters, I mean folks who cause damage to make a point) and they would fall under a more liberal banner. Millions of destruction right there.

However, they do not kill people, which right-wing terrorist routinely do. So no, there is no equivalency.

I genuinely understand that people's impulse is to believe that things are balanced, that it all kind of evens out in the end. But it just. Is. Not. TRUE.

[tymac]

It's my experience that extremists of any stripe suck. As a guy who really fits into neither conservative nor liberal worldview, I'll say that some pundits, bloggers, and commenters on both sides are equally wretched, as is the tendency to equate the opposition with the worst that history has to offer. In any case, the vast majority on each side who are nominally represent by these scumbags are far more moderate and actually quite similar outside of a few wedge issues. We shouldn't play their game for them.

Not to go all Ben Kenobi but “You will find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.".

[Noah Johnson]

As a guy who really fits into neither conservative nor liberal worldview, I'll say that some pundits, bloggers, and commenters on both sides are equally wretched...

On what are you basing this? Show me some liberal calls for mass genocide, please. Show me occasions where liberals who call for violence against their ideological opponents are rewarded with multimillion-dollar media contracts. Show me the pervading eliminationist rhetoric of the left, I beg you.

Because I can show you all that and much, much more on the right. Where it is usually applauded, rewarded, or both.

So if they're equally wretched, there ought to be some counterexamples, right? Let's hear 'em.

[Samurai]

However, they are not calling for those who disagree with them to be slaughtered en masse, which the right wing routinely does. So no, there is no equivalency.
Really? I'd like to see that... Democrats, undecideds, all of them should be slaughtered en masse? I'd like to see that statement.


However, they do not kill people, which right-wing terrorist routinely do. So no, there is no equivalency.

I genuinely understand that people's impulse is to believe that things are balanced, that it all kind of evens out in the end. But it just. Is. Not. TRUE.
What "right-wing terrorists" are you thinking of here? Most abortion clinic bombings have occured when no one was around. And the ELFs do hurt people... loggers have been injured when they spike trees, for instance.

I'm assuming that instead of showing some mainstream conservatives, you are going to pick out 1 abberant case where a conservative leaning person killed people, like the Oklahoma City bombing. Well, 2 can play at that game... the Unabomber's manifesto clearly placed him on the leftist side of the political spectrum. So why don't we both skip the 1-off cases like those and show me where mainstream conservatives are planning on killing everyone who disagrees with them in the US?

[Sabrinaset]

On what are you basing this? Show me some liberal calls for mass genocide, please...So if they're equally wretched, there ought to be some counterexamples, right? Let's hear 'em.

Here's one Liberal who was advocating the mass deaths of people he disagrees with...will this do for a start?

What the hell is wrong with these people? And why can't we shoot them for sport?

[Briareos]

On what are you basing this? Show me some liberal calls for mass genocide, please. Show me occasions where liberals who call for violence against their ideological opponents are rewarded with multimillion-dollar media contracts. Show me the pervading eliminationist rhetoric of the left, I beg you.

Because I can show you all that and much, much more on the right. Where it is usually applauded, rewarded, or both.

So if they're equally wretched, there ought to be some counterexamples, right? Let's hear 'em.

A couple of years ago a national published Liberal opinion writter wrote a piece where he wished all the christians in America were killed.

[Briareos]

The Left is FAR more violent the right is. There is usally massive violence during WTO protests. There is usually no violence during any sort of conservative gathering.

[Ed Cunard]

You know, I've seen plenty of "whose dick is bigger" battles, but this is the first "whose dick is smaller" battle I've ever seen.

No, wait. There was that on--

I've said too much.

Tymac already said it best*:

It's my experience that extremists of any stripe suck.

The only reason for going one for one, tit for tat, back and forth is to type for the sake of inflating post counts and to point fingers for the sake of phalangelic calisthenics. There are loads of nutbags on my side of the spectrum, and there are loads of nutbags on the other side of the spectrum.

I propose the only way we do the back-and-forth recitation of partisan nutbags and scallywags is to do it in song, to the tune of Rent's "La Vie Boheme."

Come on, you know the part. Don't leave me hanging.








* Boldido would have said it best, but I think he might have missed the recent "downloading comics" thread. Or the one about the poop. Or the... ok, there have been lots of bad threads over the years.

[Justin D.]

The Left is FAR more violent the right is. There is usally massive violence during WTO protests. There is usually no violence during any sort of conservative gathering.

The response to this is way too obvious, but I'm sticking with the last thing I said which was quoting Cam.

"Assholes will always be assholes.

It doesn't matter what their flag, religion, or political persuasion is."

However, I did Americanize it and correct the grammar. Does that make me an asshole?

[El Santo]

The Left is FAR more violent the right is. There is usally massive violence during WTO protests. There is usually no violence during any sort of conservative gathering.

Massive violence...caused when police in oppressive regimes we support start shooting at people and/or swabbing their eyes with concentrated pepper spray. Perfect example you've got there. :rolleyes:

[Screwtape]

I said right-wing extremists tend to be more violent, destructive, and repressive than left-wing extremists are. I still stand by it. Hell, part of conservatism is to repress. I was generally echoing what Noah said and adding my own bit. Many right-wing extremists are part of the chorus that screams "Kill! War is the way!" while many left-wing extremists are part of the chorus that screams "Let's talk! There's always a peaceful way out!" when the truth is that there's usually some middleground that works the best and is rarely, if ever, utilized. Conservatives are concerned with maintaining the status quo by definition, but that doesn't make them mass-murderers. Liberals are concerned with shifting the balance of power towards the new. Do you think that always goes smoothly? Remember the French Revolution?

Left-wing extremists do not scream "Let's talk!" They scream, "You can't talk about that, because it's hate speech and offends me!"

I still think it's ridiculous you're using Stalin as an example of a left-wing extremist. That's literally the first time I've ever heard someone try to apply Stalin to anything modern, especially modern liberalism. He was the most murderous dictator in history.Wh...?

Please explain to me how Stalin is not a left-wing extremist. Hitler was a right-wing extremist, Stalin is a left-wing extremist. The continuum of political enthusiasm meets not just in the middle, but on the ends as well. There are no good fanatics.

[El Santo]

Stalinism went so far left they ended up on the right again...and nothing Stalin did or believed in really coincided with left-wing ideals. He was basically just a fascist hiding behind the premise of socialism. He lived like a king while the "proletariat" starved in the streets? That hardly sounds like socialism to me.

[Justin D.]

Second verse first.

Please explain to me how Stalin is not a left-wing
extremist. Hitler was a right-wing extremist, Stalin is a left-wing extremist. The continuum of political enthusiasm meets not just in the middle, but on the ends as well. There are no good fanatics.

Others, including Santo right below the above quote post answer this well enough. Also, to me, any time someone becomes a dictator, it's hard, if not just outright impossible, for me to imagine that person as having any current left-wing ideals.

Conservatives are concerned with maintaining the status quo by definition, but that doesn't make them mass-murderers. Liberals are concerned with shifting the balance of power towards the new. Do you think that always goes smoothly? Remember the French Revolution?

Left-wing extremists do not scream "Let's talk!" They scream, "You can't talk about that, because it's hate speech and offends me!"

While that's a nice imitation of a stereotype, it's not one I've seen actually applied in real life. Besides, I was making a direct comparison with extreme right-wingers who usually want to declare war on everything while many left-wings wish to talk more than make decisive action. Even so, "Don't talk about that!" is not the same thing as "We should just bomb them all" which I've heard more often from extreme right-wingers than I've heard the former from extreme left-wingers.

Even though I still think you're using oddly old historical bits to back up what you're saying. French Revolution? Long, bloody revolution that rid France of absolutism and monarchy? Hmm...

[Justin D.]

Ed, you're compleely right. I feel as if there's a widespread dick shrinkage going on around here. The pool is cold!

[Erik Burnham]

However, they are not calling for those who disagree with them to be slaughtered en masse, which the right wing routinely does. So no, there is no equivalency.

However, they do not kill people, which right-wing terrorist routinely do. So no, there is no equivalency.

I genuinely understand that people's impulse is to believe that things are balanced, that it all kind of evens out in the end. But it just. Is. Not. TRUE.

Okay, I've been trying to respond to this more than once -- had troubles with the ol' dialup.

Lemme boil it on down: extremism: bad. Violence: bad. Right? Not bad. Left? Not bad. Too far to either side = extremism. See thoughts on that.

[Erik Burnham]

No offense taken, Erik. You have some valid points. I think we should just go with what Cam says on this one.

Sounds a fair deal to me; that was put more succinctly than I'm able to, myself. :)

[Ed Cunard]

Ed, you're compleely right. I feel as if there's a widespread dick shrinkage going on around here. The pool is cold!

I was talking about the dicks on each side, though--not actual weiners, but asshats and fuckwits like the the posters at the forum that prompted this, or the posters at Democratic Underground.

[Cam63]

Check the toolshed.