Why am I reading "Teen Titans"?

[redlantern2051]

This title is hanging on by a thread for me. I have been looking at my pull list and this is the one title I am really questioning. I think it has to go.

Is anyone else feeling that "Teen Titans" is pretty lame right now? I can't see it getting any better because the characters really aren't engaging me. Its time to go, I think.

EDIT: And I think I might add the new "Moon Knight" plus maybe something else, so this is a good tradeoff.

[Agentum]

Me, i wouldn't buy the series it's a shadow of what i could have been.
It's time to do some changes in that. Teen Titans is a big title and should be handled with care.

[Adem]

I think Johns is busy with Infinite Crisis and he seems to be using the book just to expand upon what happens in IC. It will probably get better once One Year Later hits, but if your not enjoying it you should definately take it off your pull list.

[redlantern2051]

Yeah I just called my store and dropped it. Not for me, I think.

[Nick Kal]

This title is one of my favorites. Always fun and the characters are some of the best that DC has to offer. OYL should be even cooler!

[Shellhead]

This title is hanging on by a thread for me. I have been looking at my pull list and this is the one title I am really questioning. I think it has to go.

Is anyone else feeling that "Teen Titans" is pretty lame right now? I can't see it getting any better because the characters really aren't engaging me. Its time to go, I think.


I think that your timing is slow. I dropped Titans a year ago. That dark Titans future arc was cool, but after that, I could tell that Johns was getting distracted and just phoning this title in. At this point, quite a few DC titles are just staggering to the finish line, ready to reboot at OYL. I suspect that the latest issues of most DC titles are forgettable, but the quality will return OYL. Teen Titans might be worth another try at that point.

[divinebrown]

I dropped this title after the last issue. I'm sick of all the tie-in issues. It's like six issues of crap and then one awesome issue. The last issue I enjoyed was the one that focused on Robin, with the Red Hood fight.

[Josh]

I dropped Teen Titans somewhere in the middle of the Raven story. The first two or three issues were great and after that, I just could not make myself care. This was about the time that I had just started noticing that I really did not like Geoff Johns's writing.

[Hulkamaniac]

actually i've only been picking it up for the tie-ins. the only other noteworthy one was the red-hood issue. other than that i really like most of Johns stuff, but i agree that his best work is elsewhere than Teen Titans.

[redlantern2051]

I think that your timing is slow. I dropped Titans a year ago. That dark Titans future arc was cool, but after that, I could tell that Johns was getting distracted and just phoning this title in. At this point, quite a few DC titles are just staggering to the finish line, ready to reboot at OYL. I suspect that the latest issues of most DC titles are forgettable, but the quality will return OYL. Teen Titans might be worth another try at that point.

I think you are right. I haven't been enjoying it for a while. Suddenly I thought, why am I reading this?

[milly3cat]

I just dropped teen titans last month, I wanted to like it but I guess I couldn't. Maybe replace it with Batwoman ???

[J'onn J'onzz]

I don't really get it. How is one year later going to improve a lame book? I don't really get the point of OYL (besides selling 52 every week) ... I guess it would help if it brought the book a new writer but that's not likely. :(

[G'nort]

I dropped it when they started talkin about hawk and dove. the art was terrible in those issues. after that was done with tho, I picked it up again.

[mohammedali]

I think (hope) it'll get better OYL. The last few issues have been rather dry, but I'm expecting that to change once IC starts to cool down. That's why I haven't dropped it. What's the point of having a couple of issues gap in a run. It's still on my pull list, at least until a couple of issues after OYL. If it doesn't sort itself out, it's gone.

Mohammed Ali

[Joe Acro]

Admittingly, the only reason I read the mag is because my dad gets it. It it had been on my pull list, though, I would've pulled it off just before that "they meet their older selves coming back from changing thte timeline" crap that Johns did. I understod Legion part. That's Waid's fault. But they couldn't have just gone back to the present after that? Would that have been so hard?

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I'm gonna check out the first issue One Year Later. If it isn't any good, I'm dropping the book. If it gets better, I can always pick up the trades, like I did with the first few storyarcs from this.

[Maleficentogre]

I'm giving all the oyl books at least 2 issues to see if things change of if there are signs of things changing. I'm thinking a lot of things will change especially with how characters are written now that they're out of crisis.

[Titan76]

After the Outsiders crossover this book started to go down for me. I am still getting it mainly because its the only ongoing book I buy from DC(other then All-star SM) and its still be okay so far. One of the big problems to for this book is the art. I am really missing McKone's art right now. Since Teen Titans is one of DC's best selling ongoing books they should have an A listed artist on this, not a C listed artist. Here's hoping one the Kuberts or Reis will be drawing this sometime after IC is over.

[rerun]

Actually, I've just been picking it up in trades. They're usually like $10, which is a good savings off of buying individually.

[nj06]

What do they plan to do with the whole OYL for the Teen Titans. Aren't there going to be knew characters on the the team. If someone can sum up the whole thing for me it would be much appreciated!

[Bat-Mite]

How is one year later going to improve a lame book?

Well, after the Crisis is over, the Teen Titans would be about Teen Titans again (hopefully) and not just tie-ins to Crisis guest starring The Teen Titans.

Also, hopefully, Hawk and Dove might get hit by a truck off panel during the skip year, and we'll never have to see their lame ass selves ever again.

[CaptainAwesome]

Am i the only one who thinks that this book shouldnt be called "Teen Titans" but instead "robin and superboy featuring the Teen Titans"? Those two seem to be the main focus of the book. Look at the latest issue, where superboy fights superboy prime. It makes sense that it would focus on superboy for the first half, but by the end, when The Flashes take out superboy prime, there is no mourning for bart. People dont even seem to notice. The story just stays on superboy and everyone fawning over him. I was very dissapointed in that.

[Sir Tim Drake]

I dropped the series around issue 6, when I realized that Kory was never going to play a significant role in it.

[Michael P]

I'm giving it three issues OYL to get better, and then it's gone. And a lot of that rides on Tony Daniel not boring me to death with his art.

[enediol]

I'm giving it about 2 or 3 issues more and then I'll evaluate it at that point.

[CURSD BLADE]

Call me a rebel, but I am still in love with this title. While it may have stumbled a few places, such as Simone/Liefeld's arc and the two-issue Titans in Hell arc that just wraped up, the latest issue was amazing, the Outsiders crossover was powerful, and the Titans in the Future arc was quite entertaining.

Johns is crafting one of the best team titles with this book. Daniels new look for OYL is leaps and bounds above his past pencils on the title.

[Citizen V]

The new Teen Titans really did not appeal to me either,i think they brought the comic back..mainly because of the Teen Titans Cartoon`s success.

[Deathlok]

Yes, I am thinking about dropping teen titans, outsiders & superman/batman

[Yoda]

I think the problem is that John's has been understandably preoccupied with the Infinite Crisis hoopla so this book has suffered. I thought the Dr. Light issues and the Red Hood issue were really good. As was the Superboy epilogue. But aside from those its like this book, and a lot of DC books, have just been in a holding pattern waiting for Infinite Crisis to end. I'll keep buying unless the OYL is horrible.

And the horrible Liefeld issues should never be spoken of again. i still don't believe those were written by Gail Simone, compared to BOP & VU the TT's issues were crap. I think OYL should have started right with Infinite Crisis #1.

[ryan_catcher]

The Raven and Beast Boy moment a couple comics back is what's keeping me going on this title. Raven is my favorite Titan and I want to know what happens to her, so I'm with the title come OYL.

[Maleficentogre]

Speedy is keeping me in the book

[Will.S]

I think that your timing is slow. I dropped Titans a year ago. That dark Titans future arc was cool, but after that, I could tell that Johns was getting distracted and just phoning this title in. At this point, quite a few DC titles are just staggering to the finish line, ready to reboot at OYL. I suspect that the latest issues of most DC titles are forgettable, but the quality will return OYL. Teen Titans might be worth another try at that point.
Basically.

I left when McKone left and the stories weren't too good looking with Tony Daniel fresh in although it looks like he may have improved his style. I'll check out the OYL issues to see if it returns to it's former glory but if not I'll probably keep it permanently dropped.

[Krypton King]

Teen Titans is still just outside my favorite ten books. As long as the book stars Superboy, Robin, Kid Flash and Wonder Girl, it's safe on my pull list. The art looks to be headed downhill though with Tony Daniel.

[Babylon23]

I've enjoyed everything up to the Outsdiers crossover, and have been disappointed in the book since then. However, I acknowledge that there were 3 issues of Liefeld, and some crossover issues, so my lack of enjoyment may be based on this.

I'm looking forward to OYL. The book gets to start fresh, and Johns will be once again focused on the book. Also, OYL will feature the Doom Patrol, Beast Boy and the Brotherhood of Evil, and since DP is one of my favourite teams, I'm interested to see what Johns does with them.

[Captain Jim]

I admit that this book has been spotty, but when it hits, you can't beat it. It seems to me that right before OYL is a strange time to drop the book, as it will be an introduction to the new status quo, possilby a new line-up, etc.

OYL has nothing to do with selling 52. OYL is a new beginning point where new readers can jump on without knowing everything that's happened in the past.

[Watery Tart]

Look at the latest issue, where superboy fights superboy prime. It makes sense that it would focus on superboy for the first half, but by the end, when The Flashes take out superboy prime, there is no mourning for bart. People dont even seem to notice. The story just stays on superboy and everyone fawning over him. I was very dissapointed in that.THANK YOU. I thought I was the only one annoyed by that. In a series called Teen Titans, in an issue showing the disappearance/possible death of one of said Teen Titans, is it too much to ask that the said potential deadster get a bit of pagetime? Like, more pages than the people who aren't the Teen Titans? The Doom Patrol subplot was all well and good, but it took vital space away from the actual team members. Same goes for those bloody Captain Carrot issues.

It's frustrating how much potential character development there was early on that was just dropped completely. You'd think that getting shot in the knee, reading an entire library, and taking up the Kid Flash mantle would be a goldmine for character development, right? Yet Bart's gotten a total of, like, eleven pages since then. Same goes for Cassie - all that potentially interesting stuff with her lasso and the revelation about her parentage was just dropped. And the characters became cardboard cutouts: the smart, capable girl whose leadership skills gave freakin' TIM DRAKE a run for his money in Young Justice is now little more than Superboy's Girlfriend Wonder Girl.

I keep buying the book because there are always these flashes of potential brilliance, but it's getting more and more frustrating. However, I remember reading Johns saying the book will be more character-driven post-OYL, so I'll hang on till then.

[KJ_81]

I've just dropped Teen Titans.
At first, it was great, but in the last year or so, I just don't feel that the book has gone anywhere. It hasn't been focussed enough for my liking.

[handOFfate]

Am i the only one who thinks that this book shouldnt be called "Teen Titans" but instead "robin and superboy featuring the Teen Titans"? Those two seem to be the main focus of the book. Look at the latest issue, where superboy fights superboy prime. It makes sense that it would focus on superboy for the first half, but by the end, when The Flashes take out superboy prime, there is no mourning for bart. People dont even seem to notice. The story just stays on superboy and everyone fawning over him. I was very dissapointed in that.

This is exactly my problem with the book. I love Tim and Connor, but they get waaaay too much screentime. Wonder girl seems to have little to do other than to be Connor's love interest. And Bart has been completely screwed. The last time I remember Bart getting some good screentime was back in the Titans/Legion special when he goes to visit his mom.

As for the Titans not mourning Bart, that just reaffirms my belief that he'll be back.

[Sharcque]

I loved Todd Nauck's art in the latest issue!!!

[Guts/Batman]

The Whiny bitchboy Conner killed it for me. I, too, am wondering why I pick it up.

TT OYL may not be one of the titles that survives. I know GA and Outsiders (if Winick is on the title) will go.

My pull list will look something like this: Batman, Tec, Action, Superman, GL, Batman minis, BoP, Marvel minis.

[redlantern2051]

I can see myself getting back on JLA OYL, and maybe WW, so I have to make some cuts. I like Speedy, (but she barely gets any screentime), but I can't stand Superboy. Really. Can't. Stand. Him.

I think the biggest mistake I made was not canceling it a year ago...

[Tennoarashi]

I'll be picking it up again OYL because Wonder Girl will apparently be featured more prominently.

But I still miss Young Justice more than anything.

[Supes35]

I can see myself getting back on JLA OYL, and maybe WW, so I have to make some cuts. I like Speedy, (but she barely gets any screentime), but I can't stand Superboy. Really. Can't. Stand. Him.

I think the biggest mistake I made was not canceling it a year ago...

I like Conner. I think that after everything that's happened, its understanable why the guy has issues. I think the guy actually needed the character development, since he didn't get none in Young Justice and didn't get any before.

If people don't like him whiny, than I think you'll like the next couple issues, because I heard he actually steps up and comes out of his rut, so to speak. He teams up with Nightwing in the next TT issue.

Besides, I'll take Superboy over Supergirl any day of the week. Unlike Kara, Conner is actually interesting and actually has a damn personality. Kara is about as interesting as a damn door nail. Heck, even a wooden chair has more personality than Kara does.

I just don't get why a lame ass character like Supergirl gets her own book, especially when so many fans don't like the character, and why so many Superman fans don't like the character, either. They all find her to be boring. I think that Power Girl and even Superboy are FAR more disserving of having their own book than Supergirl is.

So, I think that Conner is probably the only interesting character in the Superman family.

The others will probably get more development OYL, while Tim and Conner will probably be more in the background.

[Supes35]

The Raven and Beast Boy moment a couple comics back is what's keeping me going on this title. Raven is my favorite Titan and I want to know what happens to her, so I'm with the title come OYL.


I have a feeling Raven is not going to be around OYL.

I think its probably safe to say that Dick and Koy won't be around, either. I don't think either of them are in the TT books, OYL.

There are rumors that Cyborg joins the JLA. So, the kiddies will probably have to step up and fend for themselves.

[Supes35]

This is exactly my problem with the book. I love Tim and Connor, but they get waaaay too much screentime. Wonder girl seems to have little to do other than to be Connor's love interest. And Bart has been completely screwed. The last time I remember Bart getting some good screentime was back in the Titans/Legion special when he goes to visit his mom.

As for the Titans not mourning Bart, that just reaffirms my belief that he'll be back.

Question is, will Bart be apart of the team? If not, will he take Wally's place as the new Flash?

So far, I have not seen Bart on any of the TT prints for OYL.

[Tennoarashi]

Dick's confirmed to be Nightwing OYL, and Tony Daniels has let us know that Cybord is alive as well.

And Conner didn't really get any character development in YG because for the most part, he had his Superboy series - then it was cancelled, but YG was cancelled about 4-6 issues later. And that time was needed to close off the books plots.

[Static-Pulse]

So, the kiddies will probably have to step up and fend for themselves.You mean like they did in Young Justice?

[Supes35]

Dick's confirmed to be Nightwing OYL, and Tony Daniels has let us know that Cybord is alive as well.

And Conner didn't really get any character development in YG because for the most part, he had his Superboy series - then it was cancelled, but YG was cancelled about 4-6 issues later. And that time was needed to close off the books plots.

That still doesn't excuse the lack of development he got in Young Justice. Just like people are not bitching about the lack of development Cassie and Bart are getting now, I know a lot of others who were bitching about the lack of development Conner got in Young Justice.

Again, the development Conner is getting now, is SEVERELY needed. I actually thought that he needed it the most out of all the Teen Titans, because he had none, before. As I said before, I think that Superboy is probably the only interesting character in the entire Superman family now, which is something I never thought I would be saying, three or four years ago.

I believe Cassie gets more development in the upcoming books. I know she's heavily featured in the TT Annual and from what I've heard, is probably the best interpretation of the whole Superboy/Wonder Girl relationship. The stuff with Zeus and Ares probably comes up again, OYL.

As for Dick, again, I don't think it was confirmed if he is Nightwing OYL, or not. There are rumors that its actually Jason Todd, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Again, I don't think Raven will be around OYL, and rumor has it, Cyborg leaves the TT and joins the JLA. I think its safe to say that Koy will be gone, as well.

Besides, I wonder how Starfire would work with the likes of Superman, Batman, or Wonder Woman if she ever joined the JLA. I think its already been shown that Koy really doesn't like Diana all that much and doesn't care for Clark that much, either, especially since she blames Superman for what happened to Donna, even though it really wasn't his fault to begin with.

[Supes35]

You mean like they did in Young Justice?Yeal, but here's one difference:

The characters will be older and better prepared to do things on their own. Besides, Tim will probably be leading the team and we all know that Tim is a good leader.

[Maleficentogre]

Aren't there dos nightwings oyl?

[Michael P]

That still doesn't excuse the lack of development he got in Young Justice.
Actually, it does. The Superboy book was where his character development happened, and that was under the control of that writer. If Peter David had tried to take Kon (as he was then known) in any direction, it would have had to have been cleared with the Superboy writer and office first, and in any conflict, the Superboy writer would win. Much simpler and steps on fewer toes to develop the characters who aren't under the control of other writers: Wonder Girl, Arrowette, Secret. etc.

[Supes35]

Actually, it does. The Superboy book was where his character development happened, and that was under the control of that writer. If Peter David had tried to take Kon (as he was then known) in any direction, it would have had to have been cleared with the Superboy writer and office first, and in any conflict, the Superboy writer would win. Much simpler and steps on fewer toes to develop the characters who aren't under the control of other writers: Wonder Girl, Arrowette, Secret. etc.

Maybe, but it still sucks that he wasn't developed in Young Justice at all.

At least he has direction now with Johns, unlike before. I think putting him on the team was good, because with the current storyline and with what happened in IC 4 and TT 32, he's finding out what friendship is all about and in TT 33, he gets his act together and finds out what being a hero and being a titan is truly all about.

I actually like the fact that Johns has the entire TT team act like teenagers, and relate to each other as teenagers. I think it makes all the characters a bit more realistic.

As for Cassie being a shadow, well, the Superboy/Wonder Girl relationship has been severely downplayed for the past two or three years. We haven't seen much of their relationship at all. The upcoming Annual is the first time in a REALLY long time that both are heavily featured and their romantic relationship is heavily featured. At least Cassie is getting some more attention and she'll probably have more OYL. I like the SB/WG stuff because I actually think Cassie makes Conner a better character and is probably the one person that can keep him in line. At the same time, I think she needs more development. I think the whole issue with 'who's her daddy' needs to be addressed. I still think its possible that Ares is her real father.

I hope nothing happens with Raven, but I just don't have a good feeling about her, for some reason. Again, I don't think she's going to be around at all, OYL.

Cyborg, maybe, but I don't think he'll be apart of TT.

[Static-Pulse]

At least he has direction now with Johns, unlike before. I think putting him on the team was good, because with the current storyline and with what happened in IC 4 and TT 32, he's finding out what friendship is all about and in TT 33, he gets his act together and finds out what being a hero and being a titan is truly all about.I haven't read a single issue of Teen Titans since it killed Young Justice, so I join this conversation (again) with a rather weak posture. That said...

Hunh?

He was on a team before the Titans. He knew what friendship was all about before the Titans. He was a hero before the Titans. I won't say Kon (I also won't say "Conner") had the best storylines going when YJ ended, but saying he lacked direction or didn't know what being a hero was about in pre-Teen Titans stories does the character an injustice. Kon proved himself a hero and a friend several times over -- carrying on the fight when he had no powers, stopping Arrowette from killing those guys, going to Zandia to rescue Empress's parents.

You're welcome to your opinion, and if you can enjoy Titans as is, bully for you, dude! However, Kon went through a lot of changes and maturation in his own book and Young Justice. He went from someone who was pretty much in the biz for the glory to the guy who stood up, with his team, to both Specter and Darkseid's protege trying to get his friend back.

Kon knows the meaning of heroism and friendship.

[Supes35]

I haven't read a single issue of Teen Titans since it killed Young Justice, so I join this conversation (again) with a rather weak posture. That said...

Hunh?

He was on a team before the Titans. He knew what friendship was all about before the Titans. He was a hero before the Titans. I won't say Kon (I also won't say "Conner") had the best storylines going when YJ ended, but saying he lacked direction or didn't know what being a hero was about in pre-Teen Titans stories does the character an injustice. Kon proved himself a hero and a friend several times over -- carrying on the fight when he had no powers, stopping Arrowette from killing those guys, going to Zandia to rescue Empress's parents.

You're welcome to your opinion, and if you can enjoy Titans as is, bully for you, dude! However, Kon went through a lot of changes and maturation in his own book and Young Justice. He went from someone who was pretty much in the biz for the glory to the guy who stood up, with his team, to both Specter and Darkseid's protege trying to get his friend back.

Kon knows the meaning of heroism and friendship.

I know that was the idea, but I don't think YJ did a good job of showing that. IMO, Conner was just, well, there. I don't think he got a lot of focus at all. I also thought that he lacked direction, but that was just me.

I've always felt that the issue surrounding his origins needed to be addressed, and I am glad Johns addressed it.

The reason why he took a leave of abscence from the team, was because he felt that he was a danger to the group. I mean, even though he didn't mean to and even though the whole incident really was not his fault to begin with, he did hurt his friends, along with hurting his best friend (Tim) and hurting his girlfriend (Cassie). So, I think its understandble if he took a break from the team and is dealing with self doubt. But I think IC 4 pretty much showed him that despite of what happened before, the TT still sees him as a titan as a friend, and they don't blame him for what happened at all. He had to see it for himself. I think the next issue pretty much makes Conner remember what being a titan really is about and what being a hero is about, too, which goes back to TT #33 dealing with him getting out of his funk so to speak, when he teams up with Nightwing at the height of the crisis. Him not embracing the Luthor side of him and pretty much telling Lex to go f*ck himself was a step in the right direction. as well.

As for the Teen Titans as a group, I'll take them over the JLA any day of the week. At least the TT protect their own and are all great friends, whereas the JLA were never close. I just think the JLA are a bunch of self aborbed assholes who care more about themselves than they do about others.

I know the TT are just kids, but I still view them as more heroic than the JLA ever were. I think the JLA need to look to the teen titans so they can remember what it takes to be a real superhero, which is something the League has obviously forgotten.

[LoneWolf21]

Yeal, but here's one difference:

The characters will be older and better prepared to do things on their own. Besides, Tim will probably be leading the team and we all know that Tim is a good leader.

Except they handled things fine in Young Justice, and were a lot more stable a team.

I also find it funny that apparently Cassie will be taking a more forward role in leadership OYL....when she was already doing that in Young Justice.

[Supes35]

Except they handled things fine in Young Justice, and were a lot more stable a team.

I also find it funny that apparently Cassie will be taking a more forward role in leadership OYL....when she was already doing that in Young Justice.

But things eventually didn't go well in YJ, now did they? I think Donna's "death" played a huge part in that.

Then, I don't think they were mature enough to have a group and OYL, they will probably be more mature, especially after everything that happened during the crisis.

[Static-Pulse]

...but I don't think YJ did a good job of showing that.Probably because Young Justice was cancelled less than a year (http://www.dcuguide.com/chronology.php?name=superboy) after Superboy was. Michael Pullmann is spot on in regards to PAD being hemmed in by a character's title book -- we saw this many, many times with Robin. For the most part of YJ's run, three of PAD's leading characters (Robin, Superboy, Impulse) had their own books that dictated how their characters grew. YJ was just a monthly romp.

I've always felt that the issue surrounding his origins needed to be addressed, and I am glad Johns addressed it.What issue? (Do you mean who his original DNA donor was? That was resolved in the second Superboy Annual, it was Dabney Donovan.)

[Supes35]

Probably because Young Justice was cancelled less than a year (http://www.dcuguide.com/chronology.php?name=superboy) after Superboy was. Michael Pullmann is spot on in regards to PAD being hemmed in by a character's title book -- we saw this many, many times with Robin. For the most part of YJ's run, three of PAD's leading characters (Robin, Superboy, Impulse) had their own books that dictated how their characters grew. YJ was just a monthly romp.

What issue? (Do you mean who his original DNA donor was? That was resolved in the second Superboy Annual, it was Dabney Donovan.)

I meant in regards to him finding out that he's part Kent/part Luthor and/or dealing with it. I think that's something that they should've had Conner deal with a long time ago, but I am glad it was finally addressed in TT.

[Carl Orr]

Johns is a fine writer, but his Teen Titans is the worse thing that he has written for DC. He is just not clicking with the characters at all.

[Supes35]

Except they handled things fine in Young Justice, and were a lot more stable a team.

I also find it funny that apparently Cassie will be taking a more forward role in leadership OYL....when she was already doing that in Young Justice.

I thought she had some of the leadership role in TT, though it was downplayed, as was her relationship with Conner.

Though it probably won't be downplayed OYL, I think its safe to say that Tim will still be the leader of the team, and will be calling the shots.

[Supes35]

Johns is a fine writer, but his Teen Titans is the worse thing that he has written for DC. He is just not clicking with the characters at all.


I think he's done fine with it, as good as he could do. Besides, I've seen far worse. I think the Superman books have been far worse over the past few years and I think the Supergirl title is a piece of shit. I am not impressed with any of the Batman books, either, but again, thats just me.

I think once the crisis is over, the characters will be better since they are suppose to mature more after all of this stuff with IC is over with.

Besides, isn't Johns the writer for TT OYL?

[Static-Pulse]

But things eventually didn't go well in YJ, now did they? I think Donna's "death" played a huge part in that.That's a good point. With what happened in that 3-issue mini-series, the tragedy around it, it sure was a good thing DC was there to step in and put those kids on the Titans.

You don't think they had that planned do you?

It is just a coincidence that the death of Donna Troy began the current Crisis (http://www.newsarama.com/pages/DC/Didio_Countdown.htm), isn't it? I mean, Johns and Winnick wouldn't intentionally write a story where the heroes failed just to further larger goals would they?

Just what are you trying to insinuate here? I'm not sure I like your paranoid tone, Supes35. To even suggest that the DC Cabal would intentionally tear down the YJ team so they could be slotted into another book, why that's just diabolical!

[ShaggyB]

Again, the development Conner is getting now, is SEVERELY needed. I actually thought that he needed it the most out of all the Teen Titans, because he had none, before. As I said before, I think that Superboy is probably the only interesting character in the entire Superman family now, which is something I never thought I would be saying, three or four years ago.

I still wouldnt say that. Conner is probably the worst waste ive ever read. He has his moments. (Future Is Now) (Hulking up after Krypto was kicked) But they are few and far between, and that whole luthor clone dna thing is just plain lame.

As for Kara, shes developing, thats where the hook is in her books, its where will she go from here. Conors book ended because the journey lead to a place no one wanted to read. If he will turn around and become intresting again who knows, Never liked him before so i pretty much wont after, but i wont deny him the chance if he truley becomes a BA character. Till then The feamle supes wins this fight.


As for Dick, again, I don't think it was confirmed if he is Nightwing OYL, or not. There are rumors that its actually Jason Todd, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Ok ive said this before, jason todd is the rumor, what is known... There are two Nightwings in New York City and one is offing badguys enough so that the mob puts a hit out on Nightwing, now both are under threat of being killed. (taken from IGN previews of the months of march april and may issues of Nightwing. Covers are up if you want to veiw also.)

[Supes35]

That's a good point. With what happened in that 3-issue mini-series, the tragedy around it, it sure was a good thing DC was there to step in and put those kids on the Titans.

You don't think they had that planned do you?

It is just a coincidence that the death of Donna Troy began the current Crisis, isn't it? I mean, Johns and Winnick wouldn't intentionally write a story where the heroes failed just to further larger goals would they?

Just what are you trying to insinuate here? I'm not sure I like your paranoid tone, Supes35. To even suggest that the DC Cabal would intentionally tear down the YJ team so they could be slotted into another book, why that's just diabolical!

I think its understandable that Donna's "death" tore the team apart before. I mean, these were kids and despite them doing a descent job before, they were just kids and probably weren't mature enough to handle some things. Things like that just happen.

And remember, the current team were originally suppose to split up during the crisis or after the crisis. Well, based on what happened in IC 4 and TT 42 when the team came to the aid of one of their own, and with what's coming up in TT 33 and beyond, I don't think the current team is going to split up, especially since there are hints that the possible uture we saw is changing, or will change.

[Maleficentogre]

Connor has nowhere to go but up. I like him infinitely more than any other superboy.

[Supes35]

I still wouldnt say that. Conner is probably the worst waste ive ever read. He has his moments. (Future Is Now) (Hulking up after Krypto was kicked) But they are few and far between, and that whole luthor clone dna thing is just plain lame.

As for Kara, shes developing, thats where the hook is in her books, its where will she go from here. Conors book ended because the journey lead to a place no one wanted to read. If he will turn around and become intresting again who knows, Never liked him before so i pretty much wont after, but i wont deny him the chance if he truley becomes a BA character. Till then The feamle supes wins this fight.



Ok ive said this before, jason todd is the rumor, what is known... There are two Nightwings in New York City and one is offing badguys enough so that the mob puts a hit out on Nightwing, now both are under threat of being killed. (taken from IGN previews of the months of march april and may issues of Nightwing. Covers are up if you want to veiw also.)


That's your opinion, but there are plenty of others who like him.

Yes Kara is developing, but she still lacks direction. It seems that the writer or DC in general, just don't know what to do with her at this point. Every character is developing, but you still have to have direction. Right now, Kara has no direction. I am not sure if Rucka will be able to undo the damage that Loeb has done with her, but I have a feeling that its going to be hard to do. I think her potentially being more powerful than Superman was a mistake to begin with, for several reasons. On the other hand, Conner has direction which is why some think he has more storyline potential than Kara does.

Heck, even Power Girl has more storyline potential than Kara and PG is hardly ever shown.

The fact that Kara has no personality and needs guest stars to make her interesting only makes matters worse for the character, IMO.

If they brought back Linda Danvers and portray her the way Peter David did during his run, I don't think things would be this bad, where Supergirl is concerned.

[Maleficentogre]

I am almost willing to guarantee that rucka will make someone other than me like kara. Kara has more potential that anyone else right now because everyone hates her, she's done squat so far, and no one knows who she really is.

[Supes35]

Connor has nowhere to go but up. I like him infinitely more than any other superboy.


I agree.

I didn't really care about him, before. But, I like him now.

[Supes35]

Connor has nowhere to go but up. I like him infinitely more than any other superboy.


I agree.

I didn't really care about him, before. But, I like him now.

[ShaggyB]

I would like to point something out to you Supes, as a connor fan you should know that this version of superboy was a direct result of genetic experimentation ie cloning of supermans dna upon his death at the hands of doomsday. (from my understanding he had been grown before this but was given the chance to appear at this time)

So whos DNA did con have, Superman and Dabney Donovan as stated before. It has sence been retcon'd or just forgotten and replaced with luthor genes.

I confess i do not know much of superboy after his fabled superboy comic that was so terrible. (this is my opinion as im sure someone enjoyed it, but ultimately it didnt sell well enough to continue and was thus canned) Of the superman replacements he was the worst, steel being the best. Connor then was basically Booster Gold From the justice league cartoon combined with supermans powers. If memory serves me correctly he didnt have eye beams for awhile. (i may be wrong, its been a longgggg time)

HE did grow to become a hero but he never achieved the superman appeal or feeling and then he was cancled. young justice may not have developed him, titans maybe trying but he seems to be a lost soul in the dc world, one whos origins and attitude must continually be re-established just to attempt to make him popular again.

all im saying is that until they tweak him into something that does not resemble a pansy or a glory hog or a total tool, most people will avoid him in favor of robin or wondergirl. I take super girl over connor anyday. lol superboy prime for that matter

[Maleficentogre]

Superboy from the return of superman was ultimately a hero with the nuke thing. a lot more so than cyborg or eradicator. I like the idea of connor being half clark half lex. To be perfectly honest, outside of return of superman I didn't really like superboy until he lost the hair.

[Michael P]

Probably because Young Justice was cancelled less than a year (http://www.dcuguide.com/chronology.php?name=superboy) after Superboy was. Michael Pullmann is spot on in regards to PAD being hemmed in by a character's title book -- we saw this many, many times with Robin. For the most part of YJ's run, three of PAD's leading characters (Robin, Superboy, Impulse) had their own books that dictated how their characters grew. YJ was just a monthly romp.
Ironically enough, before the hammer came down, PAD was looking forward to finally being able to do detailed and long-term work on Bart and Kon. And the Superboy/Wonder Girl relationship would have played heavily into that.

[Supes35]

I would like to point something out to you Supes, as a connor fan you should know that this version of superboy was a direct result of genetic experimentation ie cloning of supermans dna upon his death at the hands of doomsday. (from my understanding he had been grown before this but was given the chance to appear at this time)

So whos DNA did con have, Superman and Dabney Donovan as stated before. It has sence been retcon'd or just forgotten and replaced with luthor genes.

I confess i do not know much of superboy after his fabled superboy comic that was so terrible. (this is my opinion as im sure someone enjoyed it, but ultimately it didnt sell well enough to continue and was thus canned) Of the superman replacements he was the worst, steel being the best. Connor then was basically Booster Gold From the justice league cartoon combined with supermans powers. If memory serves me correctly he didnt have eye beams for awhile. (i may be wrong, its been a longgggg time)

HE did grow to become a hero but he never achieved the superman appeal or feeling and then he was cancled. young justice may not have developed him, titans maybe trying but he seems to be a lost soul in the dc world, one whos origins and attitude must continually be re-established just to attempt to make him popular again.

all im saying is that until they tweak him into something that does not resemble a pansy or a glory hog or a total tool, most people will avoid him in favor of robin or wondergirl. I take super girl over connor anyday. lol superboy prime for that matter


I don't think he's a pansy or a glory hog. As I said before, he was going through a lot of stuff which is totally understandable. Though it wasn't his fault, if any descent person found out that they hurt their alies and loved ones, they would exile themselves, too. Superman would've done the same thing. Oh I forgot, he did, when he killed zod. But I think he didn't realise that the TT don't blame him for what happened and they shouldn't, since he was being used by Lex. Not to mention, he has a soul. He had to find out for himself and he did, when the team came to his aid after he nearly got killed by Superboy-Prime.

Kon didn't feel that he was worthy of being a Titan or being apart of the Superman family, because of what happened before. He stopped believing him himself, whereas his friends never gave up on him. I think seeing that for himself will get him out of his funk, which probably comes to issue 33 of TT coming up.

Matter of fact, Conner doesn't even feel confortable being under Superman's shadow, because to be honest, being a possible predecessor is something that would be a lot to ask for anyone. He's just trying to find his way like any other person who would be put in his position.

The fact that he turned his back on Lex pretty much showed that he himself, decides what type of person he's going to be. His genetics has nothing to do with who he is, as a person. He made a choice, and his choice was that he wasn't going to be anything like Lex Luthor. That's why I think he has direction now, and he has nothing to go but up from here on out.

Besides, there is speculation that Conner is under a new name OYL and is no longer Superboy. So if he is, I think that's going to be a huge step in the right direction for his character. I think him stepping out of Superman's shadow and being his own person would do wonders for him. I mean, he's nothing like Clark at all. His personality is totally different from Clark.

Back to Kara, I think Rucka or whoever is writing her need to find direction for the character and find it fast. If not, than I'm afraid the Supergirl title isn't going to last for more than a year. IMO, they seriously need to get Kara a personality and start having her act like a real teenager.

I want to like Kara, as she is apart of the Superman family. But with the way Loeb has written her character and the way she was introduced, its just hard to find anything interesting about her, right now. I hope Rucka can change all of that.

P.S....there are a lot of people who like Conner. I know a lot of people who like him WAY more than Clark, including some Superman fans. Heck, some Superman fans think that Kon-El has been MUCH better written than Superman has, lately. I don't think he would've had an arc focused on him if people didn't like him.

[DCKar2nist]

I read Superboy in his title, there was something wrong with him and he couldn't age, is that still in effect or was it retconned/fixed?

And if your serious about Superboy taking up a different name ala Nightwing I agree that's an incredible idea. & I'm also in that majority (seems that way at least) that think Kara needs a direction, WTF she had an excellent opening and now she's just stagnating no absolutly NO character development. Course once this OYL hits next month we'll all miss that crucial first year (superman's only been around for 5!) which I think will definiltly hurt her development as well as the readers intrest in her as a character.

[Watery Tart]

I meant in regards to him finding out that he's part Kent/part Luthor and/or dealing with it. I think that's something that they should've had Conner deal with a long time ago, but I am glad it was finally addressed in TT.Well, the reason they didn't have him dealing with being part Luthor in YJ is that he wasn't - it was a retcon that came about after YJ and his solo series had already ended.

[Maleficentogre]

Connor definitely needs a new name, he's too cool for superboy. A new name would allow him to get from under supes' shadow and become his own person much the same way nightwing did.

[Static-Pulse]

I read Superboy in his title, there was something wrong with him and he couldn't age, is that still in effect or was it retconned/fixed?It was fixed during the "Sins of Youth" arc.

[Supes35]

Well, the reason they didn't have him dealing with being part Luthor in YJ is that he wasn't - it was a retcon that came about after YJ and his solo series had already ended.

Who's fault was that? It was the writers.

It should've been addressed in YJ but it wasn't, which was why Geoff Johns decided to address it. I for one, am glad that he finally did.

[Supes35]

Connor definitely needs a new name, he's too cool for superboy. A new name would allow him to get from under supes' shadow and become his own person much the same way nightwing did.

I agree.

It appears that many fans feel that Conner has outgrown the 'Superboy' title and want him to step out of Superman's shadow and be his own person.

[Bat-Mite]

It was fixed during the "Sins of Youth" arc.


Which is now out of continuity due to the new Seven Soldiers Klarion replacing Bum Bum Bum the Witchboy.

Who's fault was that? It was the writers.

It should've been addressed in YJ but it wasn't, which was why Geoff Johns decided to address it.

Are you insane? How the heck do you want past writers to deal with something Geoff Johns wrote AFTER they stopped writing the character?

[Maleficentogre]

I don't think he understands that lex wasn't his father until after the series was over. he had a different half donor before that.

[Bat-Mite]

Well, they are telling him it was a retcon. That should tell him that the whole "Lex Luthors" is his half daddy is not something that existed before Geoff Johns started writing him.

[ShaggyB]

I don't think he's a pansy or a glory hog. As I said before, he was going through a lot of stuff which is totally understandable. Though it wasn't his fault, if any descent person found out that they hurt their alies and loved ones, they would exile themselves, too. Superman would've done the same thing. Oh I forgot, he did, when he killed zod. But I think he didn't realise that the TT don't blame him for what happened and they shouldn't, since he was being used by Lex. Not to mention, he has a soul. He had to find out for himself and he did, when the team came to his aid after he nearly got killed by Superboy-Prime.

Kon didn't feel that he was worthy of being a Titan or being apart of the Superman family, because of what happened before. He stopped believing him himself, whereas his friends never gave up on him. I think seeing that for himself will get him out of his funk, which probably comes to issue 33 of TT coming up.

Matter of fact, Conner doesn't even feel confortable being under Superman's shadow, because to be honest, being a possible predecessor is something that would be a lot to ask for anyone. He's just trying to find his way like any other person who would be put in his position.

The fact that he turned his back on Lex pretty much showed that he himself, decides what type of person he's going to be. His genetics has nothing to do with who he is, as a person. He made a choice, and his choice was that he wasn't going to be anything like Lex Luthor. That's why I think he has direction now, and he has nothing to go but up from here on out.

Besides, there is speculation that Conner is under a new name OYL and is no longer Superboy. So if he is, I think that's going to be a huge step in the right direction for his character. I think him stepping out of Superman's shadow and being his own person would do wonders for him. I mean, he's nothing like Clark at all. His personality is totally different from Clark.

Back to Kara, I think Rucka or whoever is writing her need to find direction for the character and find it fast. If not, than I'm afraid the Supergirl title isn't going to last for more than a year. IMO, they seriously need to get Kara a personality and start having her act like a real teenager.

I want to like Kara, as she is apart of the Superman family. But with the way Loeb has written her character and the way she was introduced, its just hard to find anything interesting about her, right now. I hope Rucka can change all of that.

P.S....there are a lot of people who like Conner. I know a lot of people who like him WAY more than Clark, including some Superman fans. Heck, some Superman fans think that Kon-El has been MUCH better written than Superman has, lately. I don't think he would've had an arc focused on him if people didn't like him.


HAHAHAHA ok here is the problem 1. The titans outsiders cross, superboy attacks them all. he turns away but now he feels bad he doubts himself. this is in truth why he is pathetic. he is the next superman? no way, not a chance. why you ask? simple SuperMan never would have turned his back on his duty, not, not attacking his on team mates on his duty. Super-man wears that badge as much as he wears the S. IT is who he is, it is what A superman is suppose to be. A symbol, a representation of all that is good and strong in the spirit of good. Con is not that. hes a self doubting pansy who wont fight because it may hurt his friends. he fails to see that not fighting hurts them worse. prime killed a few of them cause con was to beat down from not fighting back to help. Back to superman, sure recently he has not imspired the way he was suppose to, i blame bad writen and i blame the crisis. (sence he needed to be less of that symbol for it to work) Con cant be superman because his character is not a symbol, his character is utterly sad and extremely forgetable. Captain Marvel would make a better superman at this point.

2. If he does wash out as superboy it only furthers the effect that he is not what hes claimed to be, making him all but pathetic.

3. Kara is outside because it is her angle, she doesnt want to be in it, she wants to prove herself on her own marit. apparently con just is content to sit and watch sence he may hurt someone. Control, reliance on ones abilities and the will to be the man of steel are what hes lacking. Atleast supergirl has the first 2, she doesnt want to be the madden of might just yet shes honored but isnt sure if she deserves it. But she does want to achieve it as a goal. connor is uncertain if he can ever be superman which is exactly why he cant.

IT has been said there is no try, only do or do not. If you dont believe you can you cant. This is why connor is pathetic

[Static-Pulse]

How the heck do you want past writers to deal with something Geoff Johns wrote AFTER they stopped writing the character?If Peter David can't be arsed to invent time travel, then he's better off writing at Marvel, I say!

[Maleficentogre]

If superman thought that he'd kill off the justice league he'd stop in a heart beat. Connor is a just a kid and he totally wiped out his entire team and not under his own control. If you think that supes at that age wouldn't have quit you're lying to yourself. and I say he'd quit now if lex just flipped a switch and he took out the justice league.

[ShaggyB]

you ever read kingdom come? thats what happens when he quits. did he quit when he beat up bruce and diana. I seem to remember him still in IC right now

[Maleficentogre]

and how old was he when this happend?

[ShaggyB]

I also seemto remember that a true hero battles on no matter what. it is what characterizes a hero. If connor cant handle being a hero he should quit. he shouldnt be superboy and he should live on the farm as a pathetic failure.

he wont stay that way cause the writers will once again change his character completely to make him more palletable to the reader. Remember he was booster gold with supermans powers, a glory seeking prick. now hes a lex dna'd pansy whos to obbsessed with self doubt to be a hero. Total Waste

[ShaggyB]

and how old was he when this happend?

i dont know you tell me, he was 16 in the 90s when superman "died" its 2006 now he should be say in his 20s

at the least he should be 18, an adult in the eyes of the law. eitherway if hes truely the next superman he should be way better than this. its just pathetic

[Maleficentogre]

that's just ignorant. If you expect a kid to knock off his team and just hop back and say "let's go guys maybe I'll kill you this time" you're totally off your rocker. Superman isn't half lex, superman's been around for a lot longer, superman knows everything about himself. Connor doesn't. He's young, is half megalomaniac super villain, and inexperianced. He's not sure of himself, how does he know for sure that Lex doesn't have other ways to just take control of him, some way to make him do what he wants. and in IC he's back in the fight, yes the fight was brought to him but he didn't take the defeatist way out of it as you'll probably want to paint it. The other thing, he's a freakin human being. He's not the last son of kyrpton here to save the day. He's not wrapped in self-pitty he's trying to figure out his life. If he was totally gone he'd have tossed his titan pager. He was always going to go back, if not for anything else he'd go to talk to his girl again. There's no way you can make connor out to be anything less than a good guy. He's had the pressure of superman on him his entire life and that's not easy to deal with either.

[Tennoarashi]

That still doesn't excuse the lack of development he got in Young Justice. Except for the fact that he couldn't develop plots for Conner without the approval of the Superboy editor, who from what I've heard wasn't very helpful anyway? PAD had to ask if this was alright to do with Superboy. But others have gone on about this, so... alright.

At any rate, I like Conner alot. And I'm glad he's getting this character development - I just don't really enjoy the real background object Casse has seemed to become. Which is why I'll be picking this up OYL.

[Nick Soapdish]

But things eventually didn't go well in YJ, now did they? I think Donna's "death" played a huge part in that.

Then, I don't think they were mature enough to have a group and OYL, they will probably be more mature, especially after everything that happened during the crisis.

They were progressing nicely as a team in YJ until that travesty of a crossover. Or miniseries. I had a lot of difficulty even picking up Teen Titans because of how they felt they had to build into it. I did pick it up and I thought Geoff did a great job just making it palatable, but at the time it was one of the most frustrating comics events I'd suffered through.

Who's fault was that? It was the writers.

It should've been addressed in YJ but it wasn't, which was why Geoff Johns decided to address it. I for one, am glad that he finally did.

PAD had 6 issues!

For most of his run in YJ, Superboy's human donor was Paul Westfield. Then there was the Black Zero story where Paul Westfield touched himself and all of his incarnations across Hypertime were destroyed, never to have even existed. Although everybody still knew about them somehow. :confused:

It didn't get picked up in Superboy and PAD wasn't able to pull rank on the Super-offices and take control of the character himself somehow, although I thought the initial plan was that he'd get control once Superboy's title got cancelled.

Which gave him about six issues to swap out the human donor for Superboy. He's a pretty good writer, but I'm not sure if he'd be doing a yeoman's job with it while trying to close his run on YJ in a semi-coherent fashion. I guess he could've thrown in a new panel with "Hey Superboy! Your new dad is Lex!" It'd be a cool thing for Darkseid to have revealed to them while closing out Secret/Greta's plot. :D

Blame Kesel if you want. Or Kelly. Or Palmiotti (although he also had a very short timeframe).

But I don't think it's fair to blame the "writers" of Young Justice. PAD was handcuffed in his dealings with Robin, Superboy, and (for a lot of it) Impulse during his run.

[ShaggyB]

that's just ignorant. If you expect a kid to knock off his team and just hop back and say "let's go guys maybe I'll kill you this time" you're totally off your rocker. Superman isn't half lex, superman's been around for a lot longer, superman knows everything about himself. Connor doesn't. He's young, is half megalomaniac super villain, and inexperianced. He's not sure of himself, how does he know for sure that Lex doesn't have other ways to just take control of him, some way to make him do what he wants. and in IC he's back in the fight, yes the fight was brought to him but he didn't take the defeatist way out of it as you'll probably want to paint it. The other thing, he's a freakin human being. He's not the last son of kyrpton here to save the day. He's not wrapped in self-pitty he's trying to figure out his life. If he was totally gone he'd have tossed his titan pager. He was always going to go back, if not for anything else he'd go to talk to his girl again. There's no way you can make connor out to be anything less than a good guy. He's had the pressure of superman on him his entire life and that's not easy to deal with either.

no hes wrapped in self pity and doubt. he pulls of his glasses in IC then puts them back on. he was going to help then he stopped. If he cant handle the superman pressure why where the S. Hes not an everyday man or kid, he has super strength he can fly and he is "super boy". he told the titans never to bother him, he said he come back if he thought he was capable, meaning he didnt believe he was. (super girl #2) they came he got mad at them for being there.

Figure his life out? Is he spiderman? HEs superboy hes the next superman, all he has to do is be capable of upholding the legacy. hes not, never said he wasnt swell or a fun to sit down and talk with. said his current state is uterly pathetic. He is in fact a waste. HEs gone through too many complete retcons. Do i think they should call up the original writer; no!!! Do i think he should be better than his state while whereing the S

Face Facts, No bearer of the S should have any doubt. otherwise they arent SUPER. Connor is a blemish on the legacy of superman. Superboy Prime is right to be mad at him, he has it all yet does nothing with it. pathetic.

HAHA yes he should say that it leads into his being a prick from the 90s. no in all seriousness he should have checked himself out, had jla look him over, have strange or fate look him over, let jonn probe his mind, get some resolution on the will i turn again. should it take him this long and to this extreme. NOOO you either know your a good person who got used and you do something about it or you sink into self doubt and the state of utter patheticness that he is at now. Face it, Connor doesnt deserve to be superboy at this point

[Maleficentogre]

he's not the next superman, for all he knows he's the next luthor. He's connor kent, an entirely different person from clark kent. Every super-hero isn't perftect. Spider-man isn't the only good guy that can take time to figure his life out. He's not carefree like bart, he wasn't trained by batman or green arrow, he's not a god, he's a clone of the world's greatest bad guy. Yes, the titans forgave him for what he did but he hasn't forgiven himself. He's not the first hero to throw away his costume. I'd say quitting being superboy is better than quitting being bruce wayne. His current state is that of a human being. You seem to forget that connor doesn't have the luxory of that great childhood superman had, or really any of the others have had. He popped out of a tube and started fighting a crazy cyborg and deflecting giant missles. you're not going to make me stop loving connor, I think he's great and after crisis will be one of DC's brightest stars without being the kid superman. He's not superboy, he's not superman, he is his own person that has significant flaws that make him a lot more appealing than if he were just superboyscout. Everything isn't black and white.

[ShaggyB]

he's not the next superman, for all he knows he's the next luthor. He's connor kent, an entirely different person from clark kent. Every super-hero isn't perftect. Spider-man isn't the only good guy that can take time to figure his life out. He's not carefree like bart, he wasn't trained by batman or green arrow, he's not a god, he's a clone of the world's greatest bad guy. Yes, the titans forgave him for what he did but he hasn't forgiven himself. He's not the first hero to throw away his costume. I'd say quitting being superboy is better than quitting being bruce wayne. His current state is that of a human being. You seem to forget that connor doesn't have the luxory of that great childhood superman had, or really any of the others have had. He popped out of a tube and started fighting a crazy cyborg and deflecting giant missles. you're not going to make me stop loving connor, I think he's great and after crisis will be one of DC's brightest stars without being the kid superman. He's not superboy, he's not superman, he is his own person that has significant flaws that make him a lot more appealing than if he were just superboyscout. Everything isn't black and white.

likewise you cant make me stop hating him, you cant deny the fact that hes not what he should be. hell you mention bruce, he quit being bruce when he was 8. it may not be black and white but it is cut and dry. connor by proxy of representing the S should be more than he is. he should be better than he is and he is pathetic in comparison. Clark himself is human as he can be, he too has his on problems and issues but they take back seat to being superman. if connor is to be superboy he must be better than this. he cant not do everything in his power to protect the world. Hes born either to make a differance for the better or for the worse, not to sit on his backside and pretend hes not what he is. Face it, you may like connor but he is in no way a SUPER man / boy. Maybe by the end of this he will pull a 180 but he is nothing but disgraceful at this point

[Maleficentogre]

he's not pathetic. no he's not the iconic symbol for truth justice and the american way but he doesn't have to be. didn't i say he's not superman? the world has enough superguys right now and they're making a mess of things. at least connor isn't trying to kill a few billion people. I'd say him and clark are the only sane ones out there. would you rather have prime as superboy? we see how stable he is. He wants to help out and be a hero, but he knows that if he does there's a good chance he's going to kill his friends. In his mind right now the bad totally outweighs the good. You see him wanting to go out there. It's why he keeps the S on, keeps his pager, keeps watching the news. Previously he couldnt help. Tried to help. Almost died. and is back to his old self. this argument really is useless because a year from now he's up and at 'em.

[ShaggyB]

oh yeah and if he has quit being superboy why does he still live in the shadow. Why does he still have the S. Basically Kon-l has been retconed to where he is now. Luthor DNA, whatever it wasnt that way when he started, it was changed to make a dull character better / more intresting. Sadly its too forced, Im suppose to care about him now? what about Bart. what about Tim. They push on to be the best. Tim as Robin and Bart as Kid Flash, who would make a beliveable Flash if need be. The point is not if hes a person but if he is worthy of SUPERBOY. There is no great burdon than potential. HE has the tools but he fails to use them. He is not SUPER in anyway. move over and let someone else show him how its done

[ShaggyB]

no he's not the iconic symbol for truth justice and the american way but he doesn't have to be. didn't i say he's not superman?

Your right he is not superman, he does not represent truth justice and the american way but he does wear the S so he does have to adhear to these standards otherwise he is not worthy of the S.

[Maleficentogre]

He keeps it on because he's been told that's who he is for his entire life. he wants to be greater than what he is, he has room to improve he's just hit a block. No one can be better than him. the craptacular end of robin showed me that. He's as worthy of the S as anyone is. He's not going to step aside. He's going to step up.

[ShaggyB]

you seem very confidant that he will become something he has never been. I do believe someone else could bear the S better than him. Before his killing spree and basic demonization, Superboy Prime was better. (I refer to him in the COIE and before) he embraced his role. He wanted to be superman, he wanted to succeed. Hell steel wanted to be superman he wanted to continue the legacy when supes died. Connor takes the name Kent the S of superman and basically craps all over it.

Face it you and i will never see eye to eye on this one. Connor to me has always been a joke. He has his moments but the current Connor is well below the standard that is SUPER.

IF hes so scared of killing the team go out on your own. Find yourself while helping the world or destroying it, just dont sit on your @ss.

[Maleficentogre]

I am confident that connor will prove a better hero that prime ever will. yes prime is much more embracing of that thing on his tight and yes he's stronger than connor, but I think eventually connor will come to embrace all of who he is and use that to become a much better hero. I'm banking on the fact that he got some of luthor's smarts which would be more than enough to make him better than the strong but dumb as a stump superboy. I think solomon grundy could beat him in a match of wits.

[ShaggyB]

But again Con never use to have the luthor thing, its again a plot device to turn a boren character into something more.

I grow tierd of the discussion, Connor as of right now has luthor DNA, has supermans powers, wears the S and yet sits on a farm with a last name of Kent that isnt even his. The world needs him to be more than he is capable of being and instead of rising to that challenge he does nothing.

When confronted by Prime, he does nothing, he finally starts to fight back when krypto is punted. He then calls for back up from the very people he fears hurting and expressly told to stay away. He then proceeds to watch a few of them die and is to beat down from being an utter pansy about his "condition" to step up to the plate and be a man.

By the very fabric of what it is to be a hero he fails himself and his friends in this act and his previous "sitting it out" approach. He fails to be SUPER-BOY, he fails to bring honor to the S, and he fails to A HERO. Doing nothing is far worse than trying and coming up short. could he have beat Prime one on one. No way, Prime is too strong, but had he tried perhaps a few titans would have lived instead of die.

That is the ultimate sacrafice connor makes for not being SUPER and for just being average. He gives the lives of the very "friends" he hoped to save. Perhaps he will grow from it but there deaths lay on his head, while there blood lays on the hands of a misguided superboy prime.

If connor were have the human clark was he would have done something, if he were really SUPER-BOY he would have acted accordingly. IT is truely sad the level of shame he brings to the S, I for one hope that it is rectified because right now Connor is not a Hero, hes not a Titan, and most importantly HE IS NOT SUPER BOY. He is however a pathetic shell of a man, whos self doubt and inability to act when actions are need has cost the lives of his team mate and sullied the name and representation of the symbol that he bears. I hope that it will be rectified but at this point hes a pethetic self doubting pansy and deserves the monicor BOY but not the tital of SUPER.

[redlantern2051]

Easily my most popular ever thread! It even hit the century mark! Woo-hoo. :-)

[DCKar2nist]

Which is now out of continuity due to the new Seven Soldiers Klarion replacing Bum Bum Bum the Witchboy.

Wait, what do you mean.

[Lurch]

Conner may disappear entirely after the 1 year gap. Nobody knows how this is going to play out yet, but even if he's still around I like to think that Clark's DNA is way more powerful than Luthor's. For all Lex is, he's still human, and Kryptonian DNA has been pretty much canonized as being dominant.

The Dark Titans arc was good, and it started me thinking that DC should start publishing a few titles set in an alternative future 10 or 15 years down the road. Not necessarily a dark Titans thing, but more like a Kingdom Come type possible future. Maybe even use Iris West and some of the others from that time-line.

But to answer your initial question; I 'm not sure why I'm still buying the title either. Other than my fondness for Tim Drake and Mia it must just be habit.

[ShaggyB]

Tim became thrill kill batman. i thought it was awesome.

[Bat-Mite]

Wait, what do you mean.

I mean that since the older Klarion Bum bum bum the witch boy is no longer in continuity, since he got replaced by Seven Soldier's Klarion, then the whole continuity status of Sins of Youth is a bit iffy.

[titanfan]

This book has been spottly lately (as has Johns other book, JSA), but it's still in my Top 5 as far as current DC books go. I agree that it's been the Robin-Superboy show lately, but but they were actually in the backburner prior to this. What the title needs is a year of solid stories featuring the core team. Cut down on all of the gimmicks and guest stars and fill-ins.

especially since she blames Superman for what happened to Donna, even though it really wasn't his fault to begin with.

Phbbt! I thought it was *all* Superman's fault! At least until it was revealed that Indigo and Branian were reactivating the robots.

[DCKar2nist]

his fault = his robot.

I was surprised Superman wasn't upset about it (unless I missed an issue).

Anyway who blamed Superman? I missed that.

[Hellstormer]

Teen Titnas is one of my personal favorite books and I didn't start reading it till the cartoon series because I didn't know the characters but now I love them and this series is by far my favorite, it's been shakey lately but OYL will breathe fresh life into it.

I mean that since the older Klarion Bum bum bum the witch boy is no longer in continuity, since he got replaced by Seven Soldier's Klarion, then the whole continuity status of Sins of Youth is a bit iffy.
We need a new Who's Who's book ASAP I don't know who's in continuity or not who's dead/alive/living-dead/back from the dead and I'm just flat out confused sometimes.

[Tennoarashi]

his fault = his robot.

I was surprised Superman wasn't upset about it (unless I missed an issue).

Anyway who blamed Superman? I missed that.
In the story 'Who was Donna Troy', he openly expressed guilt and said it was his fault. Diana told him that she didn't blame him, and Donna wouldn't either. Batman noted he felt responsible as well.

Starfire blamed Superman, and told him so in Teen Titans... 5 I believe. Or 4.