Gotham Knights - Final Issue

[The Batman]

i don't really see a thread on this here so i guess i'll start one.

has anyone read this? does anyone still read this?

this was just a really poor way to end the book. it made me feel like there wasn't really a resolution to this story planned and Batman just wasn't very Batman. it was wierd and a little disappointing.


anyone else?

[Lester C.]

To be fair Liberman was suppose to be off I got the feeling that Liberman may have been given a one issue notice to wrap things up. There were a string of subplots that aren't and I think never will be addressed like the Joker's dead wife being killed by that cop.

[tymac]

I'll agree that this book had one of the worst endings I've read. It's sort of insulting to cliffhanger the final issue of a series, and say that speculation of how the story will end is better than actually writing it. I could have speculated the whole story, and saved $5.00.

I think it's indicative of a larger problem in the comics industry. It's not a good practice to make a consumer finish a book and wonder why he bought it. Which, I regret to add, has happened to me more often lately.

[Young Avenger]

Hush Knights ended in a ciffhanger? Good god, I hope no one will try to resolve it and everything will get ignored.

[Murrocko]

So how'd it end?

[seaflower]

I think we will see the story get tied up in a future Bat book. The question mark at the end of GK, makes me wonder if this story is going to be used to bring back the Joker in future bat stories...

[Jkid099]

So how'd it end?

After Batman supposedly had Hush operated on to remove the pacemaker, Hush set out to confront and deal with the Joker. Batman showed up to "stop him," and Hush suddenly doubled over in pain. It was revealed that Batman had lied ... the pacemaker hadn't been removed. Batman was going to leave Hush there to Joker's mercy unless he gave up on his quest to kill him. Hush, of course, wasn't going to go with this, and the ending scene was Hush fallen over before Joker's mercy as Batman walked away with Hush begging him not to do this ...

... really it was crap.

[werped]

... And Gotham Knights started out as a good book only to end like this.

[seaflower]

I wish DC had asked Devin Grayson to put an end to a series that she created.

[Hellstormer]

Was GK:Hush a good book? Will there be any trades coming out and should I pick them up?

[jaguarshark]

Originally posted by Jkid099
After Batman supposedly had Hush operated on to remove the pacemaker, Hush set out to confront and deal with the Joker. Batman showed up to "stop him," and Hush suddenly doubled over in pain. It was revealed that Batman had lied ... the pacemaker hadn't been removed. Batman was going to leave Hush there to Joker's mercy unless he gave up on his quest to kill him. Hush, of course, wasn't going to go with this, and the ending scene was Hush fallen over before Joker's mercy as Batman walked away with Hush begging him not to do this ...

... really it was crap.
I am so glad I was never into Gotham Knights. I checked this thread to see how it all ended, and if that's actually what happened... god. How is that any different than the whole Blockbuster thing in Nightwing? (Another book I thankfully don't read, so I may have misunderstood something here).

[seaflower]

I am so glad I was never into Gotham Knights. I checked this thread to see how it all ended, and if that's actually what happened... god. How is that any different than the whole Blockbuster thing in Nightwing? (Another book I thankfully don't read, so I may have misunderstood something here).

There are so really good story arcs in GK, you just have to read the right ones. Don't write off the work of other writers merely for the weak ending of one particular writer.

[werped]

I am so glad I was never into Gotham Knights. I checked this thread to see how it all ended, and if that's actually what happened... god. How is that any different than the whole Blockbuster thing in Nightwing? (Another book I thankfully don't read, so I may have misunderstood something here).


The early Gotham Knights were really good (#1-24 or so). The odd thing is that it that the book changes focus from all the Bat charaters then to Batman. 14 is how I see Nightwing.

The odd thing is that it is written by Devin Grayson and she can write all of them but once she is on Nightwing it seems wrong.

[Maleficentogre]

wow that is a weak ending. I stopped reading GK after the poison ivy arc. I liked that one, but didn't feel like it was going to get any better

[GRANDPA]

dc dropped the ball :evilangry :evilangry on this

[seaflower]

Probably too busy with IC, OYL and 52 to care about the ending for GK.

[Young Avenger]

I wish DC had asked Devin Grayson to put an end to a series that she created.

Was she very that good on Gotham Knights? I read her Year One: Batman/Ra's Al Ghul book and found it to be lackbuster. Her Nightwing was horrible. Especially the end of her run. It felt rushed and forced.

[seaflower]

Was she very that good on Gotham Knights? I read her Year One: Batman/Ra's Al Ghul book and found it to be lackbuster. Her Nightwing was horrible. Especially the end of her run. It felt rushed and forced.

Personally, I think GK was her best work. Her strengths as a writer is developing stories that hightlight various aspects of the internal psyche of the characters she is writing and writing stories that show/develop the bond between particular characters. Under her hand, GK wasn't about action or wicked spellbinding adventure, she wanted to get the reader to have a deeper look into the mind of the batfamily.

If you aren't that big a fan of the batfamily walk away.
Hmmm if you aren't a big fan of Devin Grayson but interested in reading the adoption story arc of Dick Grayson, check out GK 16-17 and 20-21. I think her story arc of the Adoption is probably the biggest impact she has had on the batmythos.

Personally I love her GK Hugo Strange story arc the most...GK 8-11.

[Lord Grog]

Wait, so, to prevent Hush from killing Joker, Batman left Hush to be tortured and killed by the Joker??? That makes absolutely no sense.

LG

[agentofthebat]

so we have no more hush?

[Jkid099]

Well that's the unknown. We don't know what happened as they left that intentionally unknown. Essentially Hush isn't going to be appearing any time soon (especially as One Year Later is next), so the writer left it like that so we'll wonder if Batman saved Hush, he saw the error of his ways and went on with his merry life, or he let the Joker kill him. Obviously the Joker won't let us know.

[bannermanonemillion]

Can Hush just...DIE?

Will some brave writer out there just kill Hush and end our suffering AND Bruce's?

Just...just END it.

*breaks down in tears*

[outlander78]

Lower-selling titles like Gotham Central and Gotham Knights were apparently thrown to the dogs to finish writing. If DC wants to be #1 (or even #2), then they have to be more professional than this.

[Watery Tart]

Lower-selling titles like Gotham Central and Gotham Knights were apparently thrown to the dogs to finish writing. If DC wants to be #1 (or even #2), then they have to be more professional than this.What didn't you like about Gotham Central's ending, if you don't mind my asking?

[TheSaltedSuperman]

This issue made me depressed. Possibly the worst thing I've read in about eight months.

[mohammedali]

Gotham Central wasn't dropped for sales reasons. DC assured Rucka he could continue the series, but given that Brubaker had become a Marvel exclusive, he felt it was only right to finish it off rather than continue it on his own. He was happy where the ending was going, and dispite DCs offer to continue, he decided to let GC go out in a good way rather than have it forced onto him at another point. I agree with the decision.

Mohammed Ali

[outlander78]

What didn't you like about Gotham Central's ending, if you don't mind my asking?

Qutoe from another thread:

"Now Gotham Central is finished, and I'm even more frustrated with the death of one of my favourite characters and the lack of resolution of the plot. I had hoped the series would go out on a high note, rather than feel like it was cancelled in the middle of a story.

edit: It may be that the pitiful ending of a good series was meant to lead in to the surviving partner becoming Batwoman, but that seems a cheap abuse of fans of the current series."

It sounds like the GK author and editor managed to one-up Rucka's ending: instead of a bad ending tying fans to a new series, we have a bad ending and no hope of a resolution.

This is the kind of thing that keeps store owners and some fans from avoid fringe titles - it's nice to get to read the end of a story.

[GRANDPA]

hush will return in a big way :eek: but is he really tommy or batmans childhood friend or someone else??????

[jaguarshark]

Originally posted by Seaflower
Personally I love her GK Hugo Strange story arc the most...GK 8-11.
OMG, I can't believe I forgot that story! I picked it up at a time when I wasn't regularly collecting comics, so I guess it's gotten lost in the shuffle, but I really enjoyed that one as well. Well, yeah, in that case, GK used to be pretty cool, then. I loved how Dick snaps Bruce out of Hugo's spell, and the way that Bruce anticipated it. It's hard to see a story like that taking place at the moment, now that the Bat-Family has been pushed away.

[Maleficentogre]

I love GC's ending. It made sense.

[Jkid099]

hush will return in a big way :eek: but is he really tommy or batmans childhood friend or someone else??????

Yes, he is really Tommy Elliot. At least as I recall as of all the Gotham Knights Hush (since the series pretty much became only about him) stuff that came out. I tried not to leave too much to mind about it.

[seaflower]

OMG, I can't believe I forgot that story! I picked it up at a time when I wasn't regularly collecting comics, so I guess it's gotten lost in the shuffle, but I really enjoyed that one as well. Well, yeah, in that case, GK used to be pretty cool, then. I loved how Dick snaps Bruce out of Hugo's spell, and the way that Bruce anticipated it. It's hard to see a story like that taking place at the moment, now that the Bat-Family has been pushed away.

*Big Giant Hug*

It is a good story and it excellently shows just how dedicated and loyal Nightwing is to Batman, the internal problems that both men are dealing with and nicely sets up foreshadowing for the adoption story arc later on in the series.

I totally agree with you that it would be hard to write a story like that with the batfamily presently. I loved Devin's GK because you got to read stories where you saw the family work as a unit and really care about one another. I am sure there will be more batfamily stories in the future, I think more and more people get a kick watching the batfamily work on cases together ....once in awhile.

[jaguarshark]

Originally posted by seaflower
I totally agree with you that it would be hard to write a story like that with the batfamily persently. I loved Devin's GK because you got to read stories where you saw the family work as a unit and really care about one another. I am sure there will be more batfamily stories in the future, I think more and more people get a kick watching the batfamily work on cases together ....once in awhile.
The more I think about it, the more I think I should go back and pick up all those early GK's one day. Like I said, I picked up the Hugo Strange arc at a time when I wasn't really collecting comics much, and then by the time I really got back into them, GK seemed to be about something else entirely. Strangely enough, I generally prefer to see a Batman who works alone, but I have a huge soft spot for 'Bat-Family' stories, when they're done right. And those Hugo Strange issues were done right... they reminded me of these big 'Batman Family' reprint collections I read when I was a kid here in Australia, I don't know if you had them in America.

[Guts/Batman]

This is one of the biggest loads ever.

Gotham Knights #74

A couple things spring to mind immediately:

1) Batman let the Joker do whatever to hell he did to Tommy while he was there on the roof.

2) His inner monologue was just... It was as if Batman was trying to convince himself that he was doing good instead of just having good intentions.

3) He didn't take the pacemaker out. Probably because he knew Hush would escape.

4) Hush berating Bruce for not killing his rogues. That was just hilarious because he thought he was actually doing Batman a service.

5) And the truly Death Spiral reason why this issue is Death Spiral worthy, the issue ends with the reader only able to guess if Joker had killed Tommy or just beat his ass while Batman just stood there.

Like it was a "To be continued in Infinite Crisis #5" deal.

Now don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind it if Joker killed Hush but at this point, he isn't worth killing. Just forgotten about...

[Guts/Batman]

What didn't you like about Gotham Central's ending, if you don't mind my asking?

The fact that is was a non-ending. And the fact that Batman was just watching and listening to Hush's terror filled screams and doing absolutely nothing about it.

If there wasn't so much "Wait until blah blah blah" to see what happens, it wouldn't be so bad but this on top of the shittiness of GK just...

Actually, the ending makes perfect sense. The series has blown since Hush came along, this was kinda like saying "We don't care anymore." And the cliffhanger they used only works if the readers care about the characters involved in said cliffhanger...

But I don't care for Hush, obviously. And this incarnation of the Joker blows...

[ShaggyB]

ok joker hasnt killed hush in this issue, and the reader and hush are left to wonder if he left the pacemaker in. there is no resolution on it, we are left with batman sort of leaving the joker and hush to battle it out, but hush may or may not have the handicap. batman then pauses and thinks about if he should stay or go.

im of the opinion he was given 2 issues to finish it all and this is all we got. to everyones dismay, hush will be back. just watch.

overall id go C on this one. IF you were collecting pick it up, if you wanna know pick it up, if your not into the hush line pass.

and btw, please do stop bashing the whole comic because you didnt enjoy the last few issues. legacy always over rides the present (given 74 issues isnt much of a legacy)

[Damo]

The thing of it is, the best Bat-villains (with the possible exception of R'as) have these kind of iconic obsessions that lend themselves to truly bizarre stories and twisted imagery. Hush's obsession is... Batman. It doesn't lend itself to jack, and it's not some iconic thing twisted and made wrong.

[outlander78]

If the author suffered from an early end to his series, it would be cool for him to publish what would have happened in that final issue. Discuss that! :P

[agentofthebat]

i just got it i dont think batman left him. Hush is still around. I think joke kicked his ass but i dont think batman left him there. Isnt something bruce would do. Hush will come back as im sorry to say to some of you. It just doesnt end like that

[Lex]

so we have no more hush?And the peasants rejoice.

[Guts/Batman]

And the peasants rejoice.

Though it would have been nice to see it in the comic...

[DocSamson]

I am holding out for the trade version, i suppose....will there be a follow-up to Hush Returns?.....Hush Returns 2 or what?

[Guts/Batman]

I am holding out for the trade version, i suppose....will there be a follow-up to Hush Returns?.....Hush Returns 2 or what?

Hush Returns is from issues #55-60 (or 64, I don't remember nor care because, well, it's Hush). There will be at least 1 tpb put out before this Clayface/Another woman loved my dad!!!/Return of Joker run of stories gets put in tpb form.

Oh...and by the way (not talking to you), I haven't bashed the entire series. I've heard the first 32 were good (depending on who you talk to) and am in the process of getting the first 32 issues and a few storylines that I find interesting that I never got to read.

But since Hush has taken over the title and turned it into "Hush", the run has blown hardcore. I mean, was that Clayface storyline even necessary?

[Sean Whitmore]

I mean, was that Clayface storyline even necessary?


Sure it was!

As a precautionary measure. :)


SEAN

[Guts/Batman]

Sure it was!

As a precautionary measure. :)


SEAN

What is truly hilarious about the Clayface arc is that it realllllly makes me question Hush (the arc). Did Hush's plan revolve around becoming a Clayface from the beginning?

His whole goal...the entire time in GK...has been to become a Clayface...that's just...wow. OMG, that's funny.

[mohammedali]

I only just read the issue, so sorry for bumping up an old tread. This issue was no way near as bad as some of you made out. As for the ending, I think it was a little odd, but at the same time great. The whole point was that Batman had realised that although he has good intentions, he's leading Gotham to hell. He sees that maybe he needs to play things differently, and if that means let Hush and Joker battle it out, then so be it. I don't think Batman had made up his mind, and perhaps he intervenes where the comic tails off, who knows. The point is that Batman is understanding that his approach might be wrong. I couldn't ask for more from him.

Mohammed Ali

[DCKar2nist]

I'm sorry I know a lot of the people are asking this but the end of Gotham Knights pretty much has Batman sacrifincing Hush to the Joker? Why doesn't Batman capture them both and through their asses in Arkham instead of walking away? Isn't he in a way condoning torture?

[Guts/Batman]

I'm sorry I know a lot of the people are asking this but the end of Gotham Knights pretty much has Batman sacrifincing Hush to the Joker? Why doesn't Batman capture them both and through their asses in Arkham instead of walking away? Isn't he in a way condoning torture?

We're all asking the same question...

This issue is all kinds of a screwed up.

I just hope Hush goes into Comic Book Limbo for a long, long time for someone else to work with and become a unqiue character within the Bat-verse and no Deathstroke-clone.

Joker could use a good benching in Comic Book Limbo as well. Just toss his ass in Arkham and forget about him for 5 years. Arkham Asylum needs to be credible. It has been such a plot device for so long, it needs to become credible now.

[DCKar2nist]

I loved the Hush storyline with Lee and Loeb I'm surprised Winnick (?)managed to destroy the character, after the arc I was looking forward to a new Bat-villain ... THough I agree with you after the horror that was GK I think comic book limbo would be a fitting death for the character.

[Guts/Batman]

I loved the Hush storyline with Lee and Loeb I'm surprised Winnick (?)managed to destroy the character, after the arc I was looking forward to a new Bat-villain ... THough I agree with you after the horror that was GK I think comic book limbo would be a fitting death for the character.

Winick? This was A.J. Lieberman was the writer of most of the GK stories.

[DCKar2nist]

Alright my mistake, wasn't sure, s'why I had a question mark after his name. Winnick's writing the Detective Comic run right?

[Guts/Batman]

Alright my mistake, wasn't sure, s'why I had a question mark after his name. Winnick's writing the Detective Comic run right?

No...

Judd Winick has been on Batman since #635 with a few filler issues in between.

Though in hindsight I wished they would have had Hush be Jason Todd. Would have worked a lot better I think...

[mohammedali]

I'm sorry I know a lot of the people are asking this but the end of Gotham Knights pretty much has Batman sacrifincing Hush to the Joker? Why doesn't Batman capture them both and through their asses in Arkham instead of walking away? Isn't he in a way condoning torture?
The point is that Batman has realised his way is bringing down the city. As he said, the road to hell is paved by good intentions. He has the good intention of helping everyone, even bad guys. By doing this however, he has let a lot of innocent people die. The point of the ending was that Batman *may* just let some of the villains fight it out, and not intervene, but then again he may not. He doesn't seem to have decided. Personally, I think it's an important question that hasn't been addressed for too long. Is Batman really doing the right thing?

Mohammed Ali

[Error_2.0]

I've read this book in my campus' book store between classes. I didn't know this was the last issue until now but I have to say that it was getting really bad. I mean, I couldn't believe it when I read that the Joker was training birds. What the heck? But out of all the batbooks I flip through between classes, I have to say that I'm getting sick of Black Mask and Red Hood and Hush and how the Joker can't stay in jail. He isn't even scary anymore because he is so overused by bad writers.

[GeorgeG]

I thought it was a good ending. I don't know what people were expecting. Nothing huge could've went down in the title since this is just a "sister" book to the main title. Of course, if you were hoping for Hush's demise then you probably were disappointed. Me? I have a "what's next?" feeling from it.

As for the pigeon thing, it's actually based on factual information. He tweaked it to fit his story and I have no problem with it.

I had more of a problem w/ how Batman # 650 ended than what happened with this title. So for me, I think GK ended on a good note.