Marauders theorie (discussion)

[Nobbel]

I said it once in a thread, but like to discuss the idea I have on the return of some Marauders.

It all started with seeing Vertigo in Savage Land again. No-one explained how she got there. Did a clone escape Sinister of was this the original Vertigo? (vertigo started in Savage Land).

Could it be Sinister once got her DNA and made clones without the original Vertigo knowing about it.

Then we saw in Generation M, Prism in a mental institution for mutants. I questioned myself: Is this maybe the original or also an escaped clone. Or did Sinister also steal his DNA without knowing?

Now we see Arclight in 198 and in a preview we see Scalphunter too in the 198 camp. In the 198 list there was also revealed Scrambler still has powers. But the Morlocks in the 198 camp do not fight with the former Marauders.

I think Sinister collected all their DNA secretly and all the originals never knew (except Sabretooth). I think they don't even know there were clones of them killing mutants.

My thoughts is Marvel brought them back now, so they will find out what Sinister did with their stolen DNA. They will be told by other mutants. What other reason could there be to suddenly bring them back?

[Joe Zool]

It's an interesting theory.

But in which book would this be explored and expaned onto? When/where was Sinister last seen? (excluding that Collosus mini, of course)

(of course it could be explored in the "198" but I think they're going another route, dunno, don't read the title.)

[Dizzy D]

Scalphunter told Gambit that all the originals are death except for Sabretooth. Vertigo could be a clone, because she was appearing with the Savage Land Mutates again and I don't think Sinister would let her go so easily, but Scalphunter the original has been with Sinister since WWII. It could be a mix of originals being aware and unaware though.

[The Lucky One]

Dizzy's right, though a writer who really wanted to could retcon Scalphunter's revelations and make it so the originals are all still out there, doing their own thing while Sinister manipulates and lies to their clones.

I remember one writer (Claremont?) once mentioning an idea he had toyed with, which was that almost every single appearance of Sabretooth ever (possibly excluding his very first in Iron Fist... and, if you ask me, his Classic X-Men backup where he stalks and nearly kills Logan) was actually an inferior clone; and that the real, far deadlier Sabretooth was still out there in parts unknown, fully content to not get involved in things until he himself chose to. Which might or might not ever happen. Considering Sabretooth's early (post-Iron Fist, around the time of the Massacre) rep -- like Wolverine, but stronger, faster, deadlier and a quicker healer -- and his current rep -- a poor man's Wolverine who always loses when they fight -- I'm not sure I'd mind that turning out to actually be the case.

-D

[fishtaco]

delete post.

[Blackcat]

I said it once in a thread, but like to discuss the idea I have on the return of some Marauders.

It all started with seeing Vertigo in Savage Land again. No-one explained how she got there. Did a clone escape Sinister of was this the original Vertigo? (vertigo started in Savage Land).

Could it be Sinister once got her DNA and made clones without the original Vertigo knowing about it.

Then we saw in Generation M, Prism in a mental institution for mutants. I questioned myself: Is this maybe the original or also an escaped clone. Or did Sinister also steal his DNA without knowing?

Now we see Arclight in 198 and in a preview we see Scalphunter too in the 198 camp. In the 198 list there was also revealed Scrambler still has powers. But the Morlocks in the 198 camp do not fight with the former Marauders.

I think Sinister collected all their DNA secretly and all the originals never knew (except Sabretooth). I think they don't even know there were clones of them killing mutants.

My thoughts is Marvel brought them back now, so they will find out what Sinister did with their stolen DNA. They will be told by other mutants. What other reason could there be to suddenly bring them back?

I think you have an interesting theorie here. Could be right but I don't think they will adress this in the near future: Uncanny is going to space, X-Men will handle Apocalypse and Ashtonishing the Hellfire Club. 198 will stop after 5 or 6 issues. Guess if it's so it will take a while to be told.

[DHX]

I think you have an interesting theorie here. Could be right but I don't think they will adress this in the near future: Uncanny is going to space, X-Men will handle Apocalypse and Ashtonishing the Hellfire Club. 198 will stop after 5 or 6 issues. Guess if it's so it will take a while to be told.

it will never be adressed

period.

thats the way marvel rolls these days "super consistency over continuity"

[DDM]

it will never be adressed

period.

thats the way marvel rolls these days "super consistency over continuity"

...more than likely due to the fact most Marvel editors know very little about the Marvel Universe continuity...

[Zero Hunter]

Just to add in a fact, Sinister can no longer create clones of the Marauders, after the events of Gambit (3rd Series) 9-11. :)

What happened in that story? Did Gambit wipe out his lab or something and all his dna samples?

What is the status of Blockbuster, Riptide, Harpoon, and Malice? I didn't see the Prism or Vertigo apperences, but I take it that they must still have their powers then along with Scalphunter, Scrambler, Arclight, and Sabertooth.

[fishtaco]

delete post

[The Lucky One]

Just to add in a fact, Sinister can no longer create clones of the Marauders, after the events of Gambit (3rd Series) 9-11. :)

While I think that was the original intent of the story, I don't see that continuing to be the case. For one thing, Sabretooth was killed by the Neo 17 times after that, and he's still around. For another, most of the other Marauders have been popping up recently too. I'd imagine that all did not go quite as they thought during that little mission.

-D

[Haunt]

I said it once in a thread, but like to discuss the idea I have on the return of some Marauders.

It all started with seeing Vertigo in Savage Land again. No-one explained how she got there. Did a clone escape Sinister of was this the original Vertigo? (vertigo started in Savage Land).

Could it be Sinister once got her DNA and made clones without the original Vertigo knowing about it.

Then we saw in Generation M, Prism in a mental institution for mutants. I questioned myself: Is this maybe the original or also an escaped clone. Or did Sinister also steal his DNA without knowing?

Now we see Arclight in 198 and in a preview we see Scalphunter too in the 198 camp. In the 198 list there was also revealed Scrambler still has powers. But the Morlocks in the 198 camp do not fight with the former Marauders.

I think Sinister collected all their DNA secretly and all the originals never knew (except Sabretooth). I think they don't even know there were clones of them killing mutants.

My thoughts is Marvel brought them back now, so they will find out what Sinister did with their stolen DNA. They will be told by other mutants. What other reason could there be to suddenly bring them back?

i'm more curious about those kids at the orphanage Sinister ran. whatever became of them? it seemed like a lot of them weren't being adopted or, at least, there were kids there older than Cyclops. i also wondered if Malice was around back then. one of the counselors there, named Robin, inexplicably had a complete personality change; from friendly to cold overnight. i'm sure that Sinister could do that with his own psi powers but it could also have been Malice possessing her (i'd have to check for the collar). btw, what kind of mutant power would make someone a 'necklace?'

back to the topic, i think Sinister had encountered each of these mutants in the past and took samples of their dna to create the Marauders. Scalphunter definatlely worked for him at one point and was probably found through his association with Remy Lebeau (they worked at a bar together). Arclight was a soldier. Kodiak (Harpoon) was an outcast from his inuit tribe because he enjoyed killing. Prism probably was a mental patient; fractured mind to match his fractured body. Blockbuster/Michael Baer was an american member of a neo-nazi group in Germany. i have no idea about Kim (Scrambler) or Janos (Riptide).

[fishtaco]

delete post

[rilokyle]

I believe Vertigo's first appearance was in Marvel Fanfare or something, part of the Savage Land Mutates. And seeing as she's still there, I'm going to assume that's the original, and the one with Sinister is the clone.

But yeah, it's definately one of those things that won't be adressed, and forgotten about.

[Siddon]

I love how everyone is all up in the no Sinister storyline when you have a hooded figure running around in the new Hellfire club.

[mgs]

I remember one writer (Claremont?) once mentioning an idea he had toyed with, which was that almost every single appearance of Sabretooth ever (possibly excluding his very first in Iron Fist... and, if you ask me, his Classic X-Men backup where he stalks and nearly kills Logan) was actually an inferior clone; and that the real, far deadlier Sabretooth was still out there in parts unknown, fully content to not get involved in things until he himself chose to. Which might or might not ever happen. Considering Sabretooth's early (post-Iron Fist, around the time of the Massacre) rep -- like Wolverine, but stronger, faster, deadlier and a quicker healer -- and his current rep -- a poor man's Wolverine who always loses when they fight -- I'm not sure I'd mind that turning out to actually be the case.
that idea was probably quickly put to rest after seeing how well spidey's (peter parker) clone idea was recieved.

[fishtaco]

I love how everyone is all up in the no Sinister storyline when you have a hooded figure running around in the new Hellfire club.Mr. Sinister in the Hellfire Club? Yuck!!

[mr sinister]

i personally would love to see more sinister (obviously screen name and all) there really is so much they can do with this character. i really haven't been the biggest apocalypse fan but i accept the fact that he had a hand in sinister's creation and it's always interesting to see who 'pocy' turns into horsemen. crossing fingers hoping sinister shows up in that current storyline or the deadly gen one but doubtful he will.

[Haunt]

Sinister in the Hellfire Club? Yuck!!


wasn't he a member at one point though? it was back in his origin story. he introduced Apocalypse to the club.

[DDM]

Originally, all of the Marauders are clones. Sinister kept the original mutants in suspended animation to keep fresh cell samples in order to reclone any Marauders that die. I believe Sinister "created" Malice from either Zaladane or Lorna Dane in some manner, but kept Malice a being of pure psionic energy. I know Claremont was slowly building a storyline around Lorna Dane, Zaladane, & Malice hinted at in Uncanny X-Men #249-250 when Zaladane stole Polaris' magnetic powers. Moira MacTaggert said Zaladane had to be Lorna's sister because she would be the only one to steal Polaris' powers effectively.

Claremont's original story had the Marauders be victims of Sinister's schemes because he had the original bodies--save Malice--in suspended animation.

[Haunt]

Originally, all of the Marauders are clones. Sinister kept the original mutants in suspended animation to keep fresh cell samples in order to reclone any Marauders that die. I believe Sinister "created" Malice from either Zaladane or Lorna Dane in some manner, but kept Malice a being of pure psionic energy. I know Claremont was slowly building a storyline around Lorna Dane, Zaladane, & Malice hinted at in Uncanny X-Men #249-250 when Zaladane stole Polaris' magnetic powers. Moira MacTaggert said Zaladane had to be Lorna's sister because she would be the only one to steal Polaris' powers effectively.

Claremont's original story had the Marauders be victims of Sinister's schemes because he had the original bodies--save Malice--in suspended animation.


then Zaladane would have to be related to Magneto as well, since she stole his powers right?

[DDM]

then Zaladane would have to be related to Magneto as well, since she stole his powers right?

Well, that really isn't the point. Magneto would have had been related to both Zaladane & Lorna Dane on a genetic level, but the bigger revelation would be how they were related.

[fishtaco]

delete post.

[Dizzy D]

I haven't read Further Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix, so I don't know. I doubt it, though. I don't think Francis Dashwood founded the Club by the time Sinister met Apocalypse in the 19th century...

I wish Milligan left Sinister's origin alone. I like the original origin planned, with Nathan at the Orphanage and Gambit and all that. That was pretty cool.

Dashwood lived in the 18th century, so the club was around by then. Apocalypse planned on using them, but never got around to it due to Sinister turning against him.

[DDM]

I haven't read Further Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix, so I don't know. I doubt it, though. I don't think Francis Dashwood founded the Club by the time Sinister met Apocalypse in the 19th century...

I wish Milligan left Sinister's origin alone. I like the original origin planned, with Nathan at the Orphanage and Gambit and all that. That was pretty cool.


Sage said the Hellfire Club is founded in 1750, 18th Century in Uncanny X-Men #450-451. When Apocalypse met Nathaniel Essex, the Hellfire Club's roots have already been long established.

[fishtaco]

delete post

[DDM]

Ah, thanks. I should have checked that issue before posting. I remember that seen in 450 where she is going over the Club, followed by some students giving Marie D'ancanto some trouble.

I don't know what Claremont was planning, but I sure hope that he wasn't planning for Sinister or Apocalypse to join the Hellfire Club. Neither of the two villains would really care about what the Hellfire Club wants to accomplish. Sinister doesn't care about world domination. Apocalypse does, but it's through violence, not politics and exploition of lower social status.

I believe Claremont was going to establish Elias Bogan is really an aspect of the Shadow King. Hopefully, he'll still be able to tell his HFC story at some point...

[fishtaco]

I believe Claremont was going to establish Elias Bogan is really an aspect of the Shadow King. Hopefully, he'll still be able to tell his HFC story at some point...Hopefully, yes. He should establish that the Shadow King is the true Mastermind (pun very much intended) and string puller of the Club.