Uncanny X-Men #253

[fishtaco]

I just bought this issue, and I was quite impressed. This is the issue that sets up the plotlines and basis for the so-called "Wilderness Era". I have a lot of questions, but I made it it's own thread for issue discussion. It seems like an important issue.

- Was Claremont planning a Donald Pierce/Lady Deathstryke romance?

- Was Lady Deathstryke's thoughts after aiming her sniper rifle at Wolverine and Jubilee a foreshadowing for the "Dark Wolverine Saga?"

- Is Magneto next seen in Uncanny X-Men 269, or sooner?

- Was the place that Forge encountered the Shadow King the Dreamtime? If so, then why did it look so much different than the Dreamtime we saw in X-Treme X-Men 4, Annual 2001?

- Was Gateway's capture depicted on panel?

- How did the Shadow King get it's hands on Jacob Reisz?

- How come all of those people in Polaris's ship were psychopaths?

- Did Donald Pierce know that Lady Deathstyke was lying about Wolverine? That's what Claremont seemed to be hinting.

- When is Callisto next seen? I know she gets her arms messed up by Masque.

Thanks.

[DDM]

- Was Claremont planning a Donald Pierce/Lady Deathstryke romance?

Not enough information is given.

Was Lady Deathstryke's thoughts after aiming her sniper rifle at Wolverine and Jubilee a foreshadowing for the "Dark Wolverine Saga?"

No, she just wanted to take Wolverine out in fair combat.

Is Magneto next seen in Uncanny X-Men 269, or sooner?

Magneto is next seen in the Savage Land in Uncanny X-Men #269 after he leaves Muir Island this issue. Inbetween these issues, he comes in psionic combat against the Shadow King.

Was the place that Forge encountered the Shadow King the Dreamtime? If so, then why did it look so much different than the Dreamtime we saw in X-Treme X-Men 4, Annual 2001?

Forge enounters the Shadow King on the astral plane or Dreamtime. When Ororo appears to de-age from woman to girl, this is more foreshadowing about Ororo's circumstances later revealed in Uncanny X-Men #265-267. In this same issue, the Shadow King gets his hooks into the Muir Island X-Men thanks to Lorna's ability to absorb negative energy combined with Legion using Cerebro to look for the missing X-Men.

Was Gateway's capture depicted on panel?

No.

How did the Shadow King get it's hands on Jacob Reisz?

The Shadow King possessed Reiz as he was dying of a heart attack. He may have caused the heart attack, but not enough information is given.

How come all of those people in Polaris's ship were psychopaths?

After Zaladane stole Polaris' magnetic powers, Lorna Dane developed an ability to absorb negative energy thanks to the psionic connection she had with Malice. Therefore, Lorna gains superhuman strength as a result of absorbing negative energy. The Shadow King uses Lorna's ability to absorb negative energy as a foothold into the corporeal world & spreads his corruption to the other Muir Isle X-Men. Banshee, Forge, & Lorna are immune to the Shadow King's influence. The negative energy causes the men to be corrupt & go mad. Lorna is not able to control it.

When is Callisto next seen? I know she gets her arms messed up by Masque.

Thanks.

Callisto is next seen in Uncanny X-Men #259 as a beautiful model. She dates Peter Nicholas (Colossus).

[fishtaco]

No, she just wanted to take Wolverine out in fair combat. What I mean to ask is if her thoughts are a foreshadowing to the next time they fight in combat, which Claremont intended for Lady Deathstryke to rip out Logan's heart, thus, the Dark Wolverine Saga.

Magneto is next seen in the Savage Land in Uncanny X-Men #269 after he leaves Muir Island this issue. Inbetween these issues, he comes in psionic combat against the Shadow King. Thanks, but how do you know he fought the Shadow King between Uncanny X-Men 253 and Uncanny X-Men 269? My theory is that he fought the Shadow King before he formed the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. The Shadow King corrupted him and let Magneto do his dirty work in order to ignite a war between humans and mutants. There have been hints that the Shadow King was working behind the scenes when Xavier, Magneto, and Gaby Haller were in Israel. The Shadow King might be responsible for the end of Xavier and Magneto's friendship.

Forge enounters the Shadow King on the astral plane or Dreamtime. When Ororo appears to de-age from woman to girl, this is more foreshadowing about Ororo's circumstances later revealed in Uncanny X-Men #265-267. In this same issue, the Shadow King gets his hooks into the Muir Island X-Men thanks to Lorna's ability to absorb negative energy combined with Legion using Cerebro to look for the missing X-Men. Oh, cool. I didn't see that foreshadowing. Thanks.

The Shadow King possessed Reiz as he was dying of a heart attack. He may have caused the heart attack, but not enough information is given.Got it.

After Zaladane stole Polaris' magnetic powers, Lorna Dane developed an ability to absorb negative energy thanks to the psionic connection she had with Malice. Therefore, Lorna gains superhuman strength as a result of absorbing negative energy. The Shadow King uses Lorna's ability to absorb negative energy as a foothold into the corporeal world & spreads his corruption to the other Muir Isle X-Men. Banshee, Forge, & Lorna are immune to the Shadow King's influence. The negative energy causes the men to be corrupt & go mad. Lorna is not able to control it. I see, but how come Banshee and Forge were immune?

Callisto is next seen in Uncanny X-Men #259 as a beautiful model. She dates Peter Nicholas (Colossus).Alright, I have 259. I thought that the scene where Masque captures Callisto and transforms her would have been depicted.

God this was a good issue.

[DDM]

What I mean to ask is if her thoughts are a foreshadowing to the next time they fight in combat, which Claremont intended for Lady Deathstryke to rip out Logan's heart, thus, the Dark Wolverine Saga.

Well, the story never happened so all we have is conjecture not canon.

Thanks, but how do you know he fought the Shadow King between Uncanny X-Men 253 and Uncanny X-Men 269? My theory is that he fought the Shadow King before he formed the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. The Shadow King corrupted him and let Magneto do his dirty work in order to ignite a war between humans and mutants. There have been hints that the Shadow King was working behind the scenes when Xavier, Magneto, and Gaby Haller were in Israel. The Shadow King might be responsible for the end of Xavier and Magneto's friendship.

More conjecture since it didn't happen.

I see, but how come Banshee and Forge were immune?

Forge is more than likely immune to his mystical training. Banshee's mind may have been more or less blocked by the Shadow King since Banshee worked with Xavier with the original X-Men. But all of this is speculation.

[DDM]

It's Lady Deathstrike not "Lady Deathstryke."

[DHX]

It's Lady Deathstrike not "Lady Deathstryke."

DDM i luv ya... i know you're a fountain of knowledge for xlore but was that neccesary?

[fishtaco]

It's Lady Deathstrike not "Lady Deathstryke."I know. I just like spelling it that way. It's supposed to be "Havoc", not Havok. "Strife", not "Stryfe". :p

[streator]

I know. I just like spelling it that way. It's supposed to be "Havoc", not Havok. "Strife", not "Stryfe". :p
i like spelling "colossus" sandwich. i create my own reality ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

[david r]

@Fishtaco, glad you liked #253. I also think its a forgotten little gem. A lot happens in it. But I personally would place the "disassembling" of the X-Men period to actually begin with UXM #246. Do you have that one? That was the beginning of the end for the Australian team, and all the events that would follow. Claremont's huge plans for Uncanny X-Men #300 and beyond really begin with #246 IMO.

1) Donald Pierce/Lady Deathstrike romance: I never sensed that Chris Claremont was going that way. I think he had something more in mind with Cylla (sp?) joining. Claremont's plans for the new Reaver Cylla were never really touched on, but I think she was to play some type of role in Pierce's downfall. (Also, we learn in the X-Treme X-Men Annual that Donald Pierce was under the control of the Shadow King, and I suspect this would have been revealed in CC's planned SK epic in the early 90s.)

2) Was Magneto seen before UXM #269? Actually, Magneto did appear in the Acts of Vengeance crossover, following #253. This is Before that last page of UXM #269. Byrne and Louise Simonson wrote him during the Acts of Vengeance and I would say you don't need those issues to fit in with Claremont's X-Men tale.

3) Was Gateway's capture depicted in panel? No, that never happened in print. We see him imprisoned in a single panel in the X-Treme X-Men Annual, and that panel was meant to hint to us what Claremont's plans had been for the SK epic, leading up to "Uncanny X-Men" #300. (Comics International reported in 2001 that the XXM Annual was going to tell us some of Claremont's plans for the Reavers from the early 90s.) The "Big Reveal" turned out to be that Donald Pierce was secretly controlled by the Shadow King this whole time, and he had captured Gateway and was attempting to access Dreamtime. The consequences for that would have been BAD for our X-Men.

4) Callisto: Callisto didn't get her tentacle arms until much, much later than this period. That happened in 2003 during the "Storm:The Arena" tale that appeared in X-Treme X-Men.

[5) Wolverine/Deathstrike foreshadowing: I do think Claremont was foreshadowing the final confrontation between Logan/Deathstrike in #253. I suspect he had much of his "Dark Wolverine" tale already mapped out in his head by this point. I think he kept having to postpone it because of editorial resistance. And finally, it was nixed altogether. But Deathstrike lets Logan escape because she wants to defeat him face-to-face, and give Wolverine an "honorable" death. Blowing his head off from miles away wouldn't bring honor to their final battle, in her eyes.


6) Magneto-Shadow King: Details on this hinted battle between these two mutants powerhouses has eluded me. I'm not sure when they met or what exactly happened. Except Magneto wins but at a sickening price. But then again, did Magneto win??? Or did he also become a pawn in the SK's deep game?

[Chiasm]

Uncanny X-men 253 - The beginning of the end. I loved the whole Muir Isle storyline but Uncanny dragged a lot until the Magneto / Rogue story and then the Shadow King story. And then CC left. And Uncanny really went downhill after that except for a few bright spots such as AoA.

[TinMan]

I know. I just like spelling it that way. It's supposed to be "Havoc", not Havok. "Strife", not "Stryfe". :p

What? Dude, for the love of god, theres a difference! Havoc is spelt Havok because its a name! Theres a liberty to that, same as Stryfe. Deathstrike is spelled that way because they wanted it to be spelled that way. Its like my name; Matthew, it can be spelled maTThew or maThew, it just depends which one you want to use!

[david r]

Uncanny X-men 253 - The beginning of the end. I loved the whole Muir Isle storyline but Uncanny dragged a lot until the Magneto / Rogue story and then the Shadow King story. And then CC left. And Uncanny really went downhill after that except for a few bright spots such as AoA.

I feel the exact opposite. I loved this period. Beginning with Uncanny X-Men #246, we see something never seen before in a mainstream superhero team book. The slow, gradual destruction of the team, bit by bit. Piece by piece, the members are scattered across the globe until there is no longer any X-Men team at all. Xavier's Dream hits its lowest point.

Was this the story that Chris Claremont intended to tell? Who knows? But it was damn fun at the time to read. What the hell was going to happen next? There were so many subplots, villains, supporting characters running around, it was never boring. I think if Claremont had stayed and been allowed to finish his story, UXM #246-300 would be this incredible epic. All the loose ends would have been tied up and it would be another vintage period on the same level of "Dark Phoenix Saga".

Alas, Marvel editorial in their professional incompetence and stupidity derailed all of Claremont's ambitious plans and we lost out on some damn incredible stories.

[Chiasm]

I feel the exact opposite. I loved this period. Beginning with Uncanny X-Men #246, we see something never seen before in a mainstream superhero team book. The slow, gradual destruction of the team, bit by bit. Piece by piece, the members are scattered across the globe until there is no longer any X-Men team at all. Xavier's Dream hits its lowest point.

Was this the story that Chris Claremont intended to tell? Who knows? But it was damn fun at the time to read. What the hell was going to happen next? There were so many subplots, villains, supporting characters running around, it was never boring. I think if Claremont had stayed and been allowed to finish his story, UXM #246-300 would be this incredible epic. All the loose ends would have been tied up and it would be another vintage period on the same level of "Dark Phoenix Saga".

Alas, Marvel editorial in their professional incompetence and stupidity derailed all of Claremont's and we lost out on some damn incredible stories.

We aren't necessarily disagreeing. I loved the whole deconstruction bit. And I loved the conclusion of it with the Shadow King storyline. I just didn't like the Oriental Psylocke (she was fine as is), Callisto stuff, and too much time on Gambit / kid Storm. When I say it was the beginning of the end I'm referring to the time after CC left. Overall it sucked for quite a while til Lobdell found his groove AoA happened.

[streator]

Uncanny X-men 253 - The beginning of the end. I loved the whole Muir Isle storyline but Uncanny dragged a lot until the Magneto / Rogue story and then the Shadow King story. And then CC left. And Uncanny really went downhill after that except for a few bright spots such as AoA.
roflol. lol? roflo?
ser1o3ly. french notebook saga was teh jawsome. i l0v3d 3v3ry dood, l1k3 s3r10ly. that wh0l3 elbow/maude story was a drag.



/i wrote this at a bar earlier:

sookie, i am numb
fucking frequencies
all the fallacies
everyone i envied
i ended up hating
life, i suppose


//had an interesting (yet early) night.
///oh, and chiasm, prior reference, nothing to do with your post specifically.

[twilight]

i like spelling "colossus" sandwich. i create my own reality ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

*watches as the universe breaks apart*

[DDM]

Uncanny X-men 253 - The beginning of the end. I loved the whole Muir Isle storyline but Uncanny dragged a lot until the Magneto / Rogue story and then the Shadow King story. And then CC left. And Uncanny really went downhill after that except for a few bright spots such as AoA.

I am also of the oppsite opinion as the X-Men slowly fall apart at the seams. Chris Claremont took a big chance destroying the very team then rebuilding it from scratch. Almost immediately after Storm's supposed "death" in Uncanny X-Men #248 & Wolverine's crucifixtion in Uncanny X-Men #251 (more foreshadowing of things to come), Claremont lays out the groundwork for his ambitious story.

Psylocke's transformation into the ultimate woman warrior as an Asian is completely unexpected, although Claremont let it be known throughout that Betsy is indeed a warrior from past stories such as Uncanny X-Men #213, Uncanny X-Men Annual #11 (her skin peels off to reveal metal), & the debut of her purple armor in Uncanny X-Men #232-234 against the Brood. Claremont was going in a very different direction, again with Spiral & Mojo along with the Hand not finished with Betsy.

Personally, I would have liked the original Claremont Shadow King story published which resulted in the death of Xavier, Wolverine becomes a pawn of the Hand, & Magneto takes over the school. The new Hellfire Club would have included Matsuo of the Hand, Fenris, & Fabien Cortez. I'm sure the Shadow King would come back to with Selene as his willing ally.

But the editors completely dropped the ball by giving creative reign to the pencilers instead of the writers. Unfortunately, the X-Men franchise quickly fell apart not long after Claremont left Uncanny X-Men & X-Men. I don't see a problem in allowing Claremont to write both books.

[goldenarms]

I loved the Outback era as well. It was one of my favorite time points in X-men history as well. I thought that some of the characters written during this period had a level of complexity or depth that hasn't really been seen since. Havok was one such character. I loved him during that time. He's been a complete shell ever since.

I too was intrigued by the mags vs SK backup story that we never got. I wish we could have seen how it played out as well. I always assumed that they fought in Mags past and he was simply remembering it's outcome being something that left an indelible mark upon him.

Is it still assumed that Zaladane was in fact Polaris sister? I know it was hinted back then, but it seems it has never been alluded to since.

[fishtaco]

Is it still assumed that Zaladane was in fact Polaris sister? I know it was hinted back then, but it seems it has never been alluded to since.It was never 100% confirmed, but yeah, I think it's safe to assume they are sisters. I wish Claremont can resolve this plot. He planned to resseurect Zaladane in 2000-2001.

[Keith_Martineau]

He can't resolve it now. Cause that'd make Zaladane Magneto's daughter as well.

And that'd just be INFURIATING.

[david r]

Getting back to the "X-Men: Disassembled" notion. I doubt this was ever what Chris Claremont actually had in mind. Editor Bob Harras came onboard in 1988 with UXM #233, and Claremont has said they immediately were at loggerheads. I'm betting Harras wanted to get rid of Australia, Gateway and everything that CC had been doing.

So Claremont's way to compromise was what we got from #246-267. The Outback team basically falls apart and is over. The Australian town is retaken by the Reavers and becomes a subplot. Claremont probably was weaving things to bring back the Mansion and a more stable team (per orders from Bob Harras.) But then Jim Lee comes onboard as Hot New Artist and Harras begins to listen to what Jim Lee wants to do on the title.

So starting with UXM #268 (when Lee became the regular penciller), Claremont and Lee begin plotting the title together. Claremont is trying to keep his longterm plans going (death of Wolverine, Shadow King, etc.), yet he is consistently frustrated now by Bob Harras and what ideas Jim Lee has. Which Harras no doubt was championing since Lee was a Hot New Artist and all.

So I actually think Claremont began to lose control of the book around UXM #250. Though I greatly enjoy this "Disassembled" period, I doubt it was really what CC ever intended. He has since stated that the Australian era was meant to last much longer.

[jcp011c]

He can't resolve it now. Cause that'd make Zaladane Magneto's daughter as well.

And that'd just be INFURIATING.

Ah, Mags just gets around. It'd eventually be revealed that he is the father of all "orphaned" or characters with undisclosed relatives. Maybe even Rogues....ewww.

[Affinity]

I saw this thread yesterday, and finally pulled out the issue today. I can't believe that was only twenty three pages of story. It felt like forty, man. Why aren't comics written like that anymore?

And I love that as low grade as the art was, Silvestri was still awesome back then. Kudos.

[fishtaco]

I saw this thread yesterday, and finally pulled out the issue today. I can't believe that was only twenty three pages of story. It felt like forty, man. Why aren't comics written like that anymore?

And I love that as low grade as the art was, Silvestri was still awesome back then. Kudos.That's totally the feeling I got. It definitely felt like it was that long! I think it was because there was so much leaping around from plot to plot. It kind of created said effect.

[Marty4Magik]

I saw this thread yesterday, and finally pulled out the issue today. I can't believe that was only twenty three pages of story. It felt like forty, man. Why aren't comics written like that anymore?
Because Marvel thinks it will confuse new readers! Can't have that you know! :rolleyes:

And I love that as low grade as the art was, Silvestri was still awesome back then. Kudos.
Yeah, Silvestri was (still is IMHO btw) an amazing artist, that really fit well with that period.
He had a kind of rough style, and it was a perfect match with the stories at that time.

[fishtaco]

I liked his art on the issue, but I loathed the art by the other guy who was drawing it. Donald Pierce looked so dopey on some of those panels. Most of the art seemed really bland. Can't go wrong with Silvestri, though. His work on Here Comes Tomorrow was brilliant.

[Marty4Magik]

I liked his art on the issue, but I loathed the art by the other guy who was drawing it. Donald Pierce looked so dopey on some of those panels. Most of the art seemed really bland. Can't go wrong with Silvestri, though. His work on Here Comes Tomorrow was brilliant.

I think you mean Rick Leonardi? :confused:

[fishtaco]

I think you mean Rick Leonardi? :confused:No, it wasn't Leonardi. It was Steve Leolai (sp?)

[Titan76]

He can't resolve it now. Cause that'd make Zaladane Magneto's daughter as well.

And that'd just be INFURIATING.
No it wouldn't. They can have the same mother but diffenert fathers you know.

[Keith_Martineau]

No it wouldn't. They can have the same mother but diffenert fathers you know.

You bring a valid point sir.

However, given her abilities to just up and TAKE Mags power, and her desire to take him down, you just KNOW thats the direction they'd go in, that she's ALSO his daughter.

I'd really like for this 3rd Summers Brother thing to be the LAST piece of familial coincidence in the Xbooks for like...ever.