Mutant League 02/17/2006 AM Battle - Siddon & venuscameback vs. Fabian

[mattbib]

Welcome to our first match of the day...

In the first corner we have Siddon & venuscameback's Hellfire & Brimstone (Selene, Firestar, Collective Man, Skids, Emma Frost, Whirlwind, Skein)

vs

In the second corner we have Fabian's F-Factor (Havok, Lady Mastermind, Lila Cheney, Shinobi Shaw, Sack, Mr. Brownstone, Loa)



Both participants have submitted strategies.

Please do not post or vote until both strategies have been posted and read.

[mattbib]

Our team goes for a furious, guns blazing attack.

If Selene, Emma or Whirlwind are attacked by someone on our own side under Lady Mastermind’s influence, they are wicked enough to take them down without hesitation.

Initial actions, all simultaneous:

Firestar takes to flight and fires a number of heat blasts off to keep the opposition, primarily aiming to distract Lady Mastermind from casting illusions & force Havok to dodge rather than fire, but she is looking to cause maximum disruption.
Selene fires off psychic attacks on Lila and Mr Brownstone – two individuals with no telepathic training. They should crumple promptly against this powerful and vastly experienced psi.
Whirlwind speeds towards Lady Mastermind, and viciously cuts her up with his wrist-mounted circular saw blades.
Emma Frost transforms into her diamond form. In this form she is immune to telepathy and therefore Lady Mastermind’s illusions & if Mr Brownstone manages to teleport heroin at her it will not affect her in this solid diamond form.
Skids envelops Skein & Emma Frost in her forcefield and the trio advance towards the opposition. Skein constricts the fibres in Havok’s costume so that he feels like he’s wearing an ever-tightening corset. He can’t breath properly and doesn’t know why. It disrupts any attack he would make
If Skids is manipulating into thinking she has e nveloped allies in her forcefield when she hasn’t, Skein & Emma advance without her, with Skein taking to the air. Firestar flies forward in advance of this group, laying down covering fire, primarily targeting Havok & Lady Mastermind, if she is still around.
30 Collective Men form six larger Collective Men each consisting of five Collective Men, while ten individual Collective Men stay close to Selene and will obstruct any line of fire drawn on her. If Selene is weakened by an attack she will drain one or more of these ten TCM of their lifeforce to ensure she stays strong.

Conclusion: Lady Mastermind, Lila & Mr Brownstone are taken down. Havok is in a sticky spot.
Follow-up actions:

If Lila does manage a teleport, anyone she ports will find only Selene and TCM near their starting positions. Selene will generate a wall of fire between her any opponents and fire psychic blasts at them, going for Shinobi Shaw first. Half TCM individuals are inside the firewall for Selene to feed on as needed to keep this fiery defence and psychic barrage up. Half TCM and the six giant TCM are outside the firewall, physically tackling, hitting and grappling any opposition.
If Selene judges her attackers to be weak, she will leave generate a firewall as above, with five TCM inside it, but leave the attackers to the rest of TCM to deal with as above, without her assistance. Selene can then mind blast Shinobi Shaw, knocking him unconscious, followed by Loa.
Skein and Firestar stay in the middle of the battlefield. They are on the lookout for opponents who have been teleported away and will turn and face whatever direction they need to in order to make their attacks.
Skein continues her attack on Havok, tightening his costume and in effect suffocating him. Firestar focuses on Havok with her heat blasts. Havok is too busy desperately trying to breath to dodge Firestar’s attack.
Having traversed the battlefield, Skids releases Emma Frost. If Lady Mastermind is still in the game she is Emma Frost’s primary target. Emma has great durability against attack in her diamond form and will shrug off attacks and focus on taking down Lady Mastermind in physical combat at all costs, irrelevant of what is going on around her. Even if team-mates have been manipulated into attacking her, she still goes straight for Lady Mastermind.
If Lady Mastermind has already fallen, Emma Frost changes into her non-diamond form and psychic blasts Sack & Loa. His body may be immune to damage but his mind is not. If he has taken one of our characters hostage the shock of this attack will hopefully force him to release them.
Whirlwind runs to Mr Brownstone and Lila Cheney and savagely cuts into them, ensuring they stay out the fight. Selene’s attack should have been sufficient, but Whirlwind makes sure of it.

Conclusion: Shinobi Shaw & Havok fall, in addition to Lady Mastermind, Lila & Mr Brownstone who are already defeated or finished off this action. Loa may be defeated and Sack is in difficulties.
Final stage:

Emma Frost fires a mental bolt at Loa, knocking her out if Selene was unable to do this earlier.
Whirlwind races to finish off Sack; as his body is vulnerable to edged weapons he is a great target for Whirlwind. Selene fires a mental bolt at Sack. Firestar will fire heat blasts at Sack from a safe distance, while flying, until he passes out or surrenders. Three attacks on Sack? Just making sure we’re covered.
Conclusion: Fabian’s team is soundly defeated

[mattbib]

My next team is quite powerful but they have one thing I can expose:

Past Relationships.

Emma Frost has tried to kill Selene (with Firestar) and Firestar has taken Whirlwind to jail. Having these on the same team wouldn't likely happen and they probably are looking at each other with a distrustful eye.

.......

Also, Lila Cheney has been able to teleport to some places as specific as her own apartment, down to rooms, and directories say that she just has to know the specific area to be able to teleport there. While she does have to travel intergalactic distances to do so, it should not take her a long time. Distance is not a factor when you are teleporting ........

As soon as the match starts

Lila Cheney teleports everyone on my team (except Mr.Brownstone) to the Dyson Sphere while Lady Mastermind feeds them the illusion that my team is still there. The reason why I do this with Lady Mastermind is because she has been shown to be able to throw an illusion and it takes some time before the victims regain a sense of reality even when Lady Mastermind isn't around.



At the same time, Mr. Brownstone teleports himself inside Emma Frost. He did this to his brother in Spider-Man/Black Cat #4 and killed him. He should be able to teleport inside Skids's forcefield if Skids is protecting Emma. When this is done, he focuses his heroin teleportation on just Selene.



There is a chance that Emma Frost has turned herself into diamond and then Mr. Brownstone just took himself out but that's a risk I am willing to take. It also means Emma isn't using her telepathic powers



In less than a second Lila Cheney teleports back into the field as soon as possible into the midst of my opponent's team with Havok, Shinobi and Lady Mastermind (who at this point is still confusing the other team with her first illusion). Lila then continues to play evasively and teleports herself with Lady Mastermind while picking up Mr. Brownstone back to the Dyson Sphere. Lila doesn't have to be specific with her teleports while dropping people off



Shinobi is phased and Havok is free to cut loose with a massive omnidirectional wave blast to hit everyone on my opponent's team that is in the vicinity. It is easier for Havok to shoot a blast in all directions than it is concentrate it to a single beam. Havok has also been able to knock out opponents with this move and make a crater while he does it so it packs quite a punch.
Alex understands and calls to the X-Men to ‘hit the dirt’ as he unleashes a huge solar powered blast. Logan shields Bobby and Lorna shelters behind some rocks as the blast knocks the remaining (8) Immortals back and also creates a huge crater in the surrounding area. With the Immortals all held beneath rubble, Alex exclaims they should be held for now.

This attack should either knock out or disorient my enemies (especially the collective men). The attack would be done as quick as possible so that even the flyers wouldn't have much time to get off the ground and avoid it.



Shinobi has been running towards Skids (or Emma, depending on how Mr. Brownstone did) to phase his fist into her heart. Shinobi should be able to go through Skids's forefield



While all this was happening, Sack and Loa were left in the Dyson Sphere and Sack has taken control of Loa
When the Havok blast is over

The rest of my team returns (Lady Mastermind, Lila Cheney, Mr. Brownstone, and Sack-Loa). Lady Mastermind picks on Whirlwind and Firestar with her illusion powers. Lady Mastermind was able to hold Rogue, Sage, and Daniel Moonstar in a sophitiscated illusion at the same time before and Rogue has no doubt had more psi-defense training than either Whirlwind or Firestar and Sage is no slouch in the mental department either. Whirwind sees Selene as the Wasp (one whom he holds a strong grudge against) and Firestar sees Selene as Whirwind

(For the examples I listed, check out Xtreme X-men 5-9)



Now Selene should get angry at Firestar attempting to kill her....again. This should keep these 3 busy for some time and best case scenario is that all or some get taken out by each other but my overall goal is to keep Selene occupied. Do not forget that Lady Mastermind also has some emotion manipulating powers so whatever betrayal or rage they have will be augmented to further cloud their minds
Powers: Telepathic abilities allow her to assimilate the thoughts and memories of others, stimulate different portions of their brains to elicit reactions such as fear, hatred or lust, and incorporate these manipulations into psychic illusions to create elaborate and convincing false realities.

In case anyone tries to harm Lady Mastermind, Lila Cheney is next to her to teleport her out of harms way. Lady Mastermind should still be able to craft her illusions from wherever she is as she has been shown to make people see things while she is out of harms way. This is all I have Lila Cheney doing, keep Lady Mastermind safe. Teleporting does not tire Lila so it doesn't matter how many times she does it.



Sack-Loa is phased and gunning for Selene to phase through her. Same with Shinobi. It is in my best interests to try and take her out with: a phaser who disintergrates things and another who can grab hold of internal organs, should be able to do the trick. Sack should walk through her and Shinobi will try for a brain lobotomy. Remember that Selene also has her hands full with Firestar and Whirlwind attacking her.



Havok stands up and blasts at Skein (or Emma, depending on Brownstone's initial attack) and the collective men so they don't overwhelm or sneak up on my team. Mr. Brownstone should take control of Skein and have her walk into one of Havok's blasts (Mr. Brownstone took control of Spider-Man and Daredevil and had them fight each other). Havok then starts focusing on whoever is left from the Whirwind, Firestar, Selene fight.

When this is done, Mr. Brownstone is no doubt tired with and he'd just scurry away from danger while trying to either teleport the rest of his stash (or whatever small object he can grab a hold of like rocks in case people don't think he has a big stash) in Firestar or Whirwind,

IF Mr. Brownstone is not alive, Lady Mastermind has Skein walk into Havok's blasts.
And now the clean-up:

The biggest gamble I am taking is killing Emma as soon as my match starts. If this doesn't happen and Brownstone is dead, then Emma would be in her diamond form when Havok does his omnidirectional blast and Shinobi is left with the charge of phasing into Emma to disable/kill her.



If Selene hasn't taken out Whirlwind or Firestar, keep in mind that Lady Mastermind has them fight each other and I will also have Havok blasting them. It will be only a matter of time before they take each other out. I also doubt Selene is able to still be walking after being attacked by two of her teammates and a double phase. If this does happen she should be weakened, Havok focuses his strongest blasts on her until she is out and whatever collective men are in his way.

Also remember that Havok has been able to absorb a nuclear blast and is probably immune to heat so Firestar's attacks to him would have a small effect on him.



Shinobi and Sack-Loa are left running around the field taking out the collective men. Remember that they are phased and Shinobi is being ruthless and attacks the vital organs by phasing into them and when Sack-Loa phases into them, they disintergrate.

IF however, Skein is still walking around, Shinobi and Sack-Loa try to take care of her first. Her telekinetic powers should not work on them as they and their clothes are phased. If I could have Sack take over her, I will, so I can have a Skein-Sack attack the rest of the collective men and whoever is left standing.

IF Lady Mastermind still happens to be on the field, she's busy taking control of some of the collective men with more illusions. Lady Mastermind was able to take control numerous of Madrox's dupes before so she has had experrience in multiple type style opponents.
After a long hard fought battle, F-Factor accept whatever loses they have taken and stand victorious.

[venuscameback]

A strong strategy, Fabian, lots of detail and thought-out manoeuvres. This should be interesting.

I think a lot is riding on those first couple of seconds - can Selene mind-bolt Lila quicker than Lady Mastermind can feed her illusion to our entire team and then be teleported away? and quicker than the speedster Whirlwind can get over to Lady Mastermind and slice her up?

I think Selene & Whirlwind can do that

venus

[The Lucky One]

Some really slick ideas on the part of both teams. My biggest question is with mechanics- is Lady Mastermind going to be able to maintain a psi-illusion from millions of miles away in the Dyson Sphere? I guess it depends on how her powers work, whether she implants a specific, self-maintaining illusion in people's minds, or whether she needs to remain there, focusing on it. I know Fabian's strategy makes mention of it taking time for her victims to regain a sense of reality when she leaves, but I don't recall exactly where this was shown. Anyone know?

-D

[venuscameback]

Some really slick ideas on the part of both teams. My biggest question is with mechanics- is Lady Mastermind going to be able to maintain a psi-illusion from millions of miles away in the Dyson Sphere? I guess it depends on how her powers work, whether she implants a specific, self-maintaining illusion in people's minds, or whether she needs to remain there, focusing on it. Anybody know one way or the other?

-D

According to Fabian's strategy they don't fade immediately on Lady Mastermind leaving the area, but they aren't self-maintaining as such

I wonder if she's affected so many people before with illusions - she's attempting to cast it on seven individuals here & that's gotta be quite some feat for a complex illusion like this. To find it believable she has to construct an illusion of not just the fake location of her team but what each member of the team is doing, how they are interacting etc.

It may only take a few seconds to construct and implant in seven opponents for a master illusionist but in these matches a few seconds is a long time

venus

[The Fury]

I'm questioning whether Shinobi can phase through Skids field?


Also, the opening teleport move is good, if Lila gets away it's a big advatange. Fabian's overall strategy to take down the far more powerful (well selene and Emma at least) is good.

[Hi-Fi]

I love the use of Lila in fabian strategy, and the clever move with Lady Mastermind ilusion of the whole team still there.

I'm sold.

[venuscameback]

I love the use of Lila in fabian strategy, and the clever move with Lady Mastermind ilusion of the whole team still there.

I'm sold.

You really think that Lady Mastermind can create that complex illusion so that Fabian's team can teleport away before Selene can mind bolt Lila "no training" Cheney and/or before the super-fast Whirlwind can race savage Lady Mastermind?

If you do, fair enough, but I don't see it myself.

venus

[Hi-Fi]

You really think that Lady Mastermind can create that complex illusion so that Fabian's team can teleport away before Selene can mind bolt Lila "no training" Cheney and/or before the super-fast Whirlwind can race savage Lady Mastermind?

If you do, fair enough, but I don't see it myself.

venus

Well, I don't know exactly the limits of the characte's powers, but I thought it was a pretty clever move.

Sorry, venus. :o

[venuscameback]

I'm questioning whether Shinobi can phase through Skids field?


I don't know, different fields work differently. I'm sure i've seen some fields provide problems for phased characters, and others allow them to pass.

venus

[venuscameback]

Well, I don't know exactly the limits of the characte's powers, but I thought it was a pretty clever move.

Sorry, venus. :o

It's cool. Fabian's strategy is well put together.

Of course I don't think enough of it works for him to succeed but, y'know, I would say that

venus

[The Fury]

I don't know, different fields work differently. I'm sure i've seen some fields provide problems for phased characters, and others allow them to pass.

venus
Okay.

So, anyone know? I would have thought that even in that form (Shinobi) no one should be able to penetrate the force field. It deflect energy after all and seemingly at times has kept out air as well.

It would be hard if he can to do anything as he enter as well due to one thing. Emma is there as well.

Mr. Brownstone's initial attack was unsuccessful. He was was able to port even with Selene's Psychic attack, Emma was in diamind form and it probably killed him. That being said as Emma is still alive, if Shinobi goes to attack Skids then Emma is there for back up.

[venuscameback]

Okay.

So, anyone know? I would have thought that even in that form (Shinobi) no one should be able to penetrate the force field. It deflect energy after all and seemingly at times has kept out air as well.

It would be hard if he can to do anything as he enter as well due to one thing. Emma is there as well.

Mr. Brownstone's initial attack was unsuccessful. He was was able to port even with Selene's Psychic attack, Emma was in diamind form and it probably killed him. That being said as Emma is still alive, if Shinobi goes to attack Skids then Emma is there for back up.

There's another factor:

Emma and Skids & Skein are travelling towards the opposition.

Lila (assuming she somehow survived Selene's mind bolts) drops Havok & Shinobi down where our team started so Skids has a head start & Shinobi has to chase

venus

[Novaya Havoc]

.... lilacheneymustdie

(sorry... couldn't resist) :o Anything that invovles teleporting to the Dyson Sphere = poor strategy. Are they even allowed to leave the battle arena?

[The Fury]

.... lilacheneymustdie

(sorry... couldn't resist) :o Anything that invovles teleporting to the Dyson Sphere = poor strategy. Are they even allowed to leave the battle arena?
Yes, as long as you only make your team leave.

If Fabian had Lila port Emma away from the battle that would not be allowed.

[The Lucky One]

Are they even allowed to leave the battle arena?

This year, yes. In past years, if you left the battlefield, you were out... in fact, one of Mattbib's more inspired moves last year was having Karma possess Deadpool and making him speak the word "bodyslide" or whatever, teleporting him to Greymalkin and automatically taking him out of the match.
:)

-D

[Fabian]

According to Fabian's strategy they don't fade immediately on Lady Mastermind leaving the area, but they aren't self-maintaining as such
Rogue and Sage couldn't shake it off for some time after Lady Mastermind left. Sage couldn't even be taken out of her illusion while Lady Mastermind got knocked out because it was so good.

A strong strategy, Fabian, lots of detail and thought-out manoeuvres. This should be interesting.

I think a lot is riding on those first couple of seconds - can Selene mind-bolt Lila quicker than Lady Mastermind can feed her illusion to our entire team and then be teleported away? and quicker than the speedster Whirlwind can get over to Lady Mastermind and slice her up?

I think Selene & Whirlwind can do that

Couple seconds?

In the first second, I teleported away and then came back to drop off the Havok bomb to disorient you guys. That's when I use Lady Mastermind to her potential to come back and get Firestar and Whirwind to attack Selene. The first time she uses her illusion powers before initial teleport is just as much as she can do while being taken away.

I'm questioning whether Shinobi can phase through Skids field?
I never read anything that would have me question it. All it says is that it stops friction and phasing through it would have no friction at all. You said it stops air but air has friction too. Phasing is as close to non friction as you can get


You really think that Lady Mastermind can create that complex illusion so that Fabian's team can teleport away before Selene can mind bolt Lila "no training" Cheney and/or before the super-fast Whirlwind can race savage Lady Mastermind?

If you do, fair enough, but I don't see it myself.

Cheney was working with Cable, I think he might have given her some psi-training

and I never said it was a complex illusion. I just need a quick less than a second decoy to get ready for the Havok bomb

.... lilacheneymustdie

(sorry... couldn't resist) :o Anything that invovles teleporting to the Dyson Sphere = poor strategy. Are they even allowed to leave the battle arena?
I answered this last time and even quoted Matt on it. Yes I am allowed.

[Fabian]

Some really slick ideas on the part of both teams. My biggest question is with mechanics- is Lady Mastermind going to be able to maintain a psi-illusion from millions of miles away in the Dyson Sphere? I guess it depends on how her powers work, whether she implants a specific, self-maintaining illusion in people's minds, or whether she needs to remain there, focusing on it. I know Fabian's strategy makes mention of it taking time for her victims to regain a sense of reality when she leaves, but I don't recall exactly where this was shown. Anyone know?

Check out X-treme X-men #5-9. I believe that's the only official Lady Mastermind appearnace because the other one had a different apperance and it was ret-conned into being her sister although they have the same powers. I can check out the issue where she took over the Multiple Men though and Jamie mentions that only some of his dupes are shaking off their illusions as Lady mastermind is on a Jet with Mystique

And she implants the illusion

[The Fury]

I never read anything that would have me question it. All it says is that it stops friction and phasing through it would have no friction at all. You said it stops air but air has friction too. Phasing is as close to non friction as you can get
You could say that about air, but what about fire? Fire does not have friction but she was able to stop the fire and HEAT from ...er that bloke.

[Fabian]

You could say that about air, but what about fire? Fire does not have friction but she was able to stop the fire and HEAT from ...er that bloke.
Fire has friction. Fire is still energy and the reaction of 2 or more chemicals where the molecules will readily react to form more chemicals

Fire is not a state of matter: rather, it is an exothermic oxidation process by which heat and light energy are given out.
Heat is a form of energy associated with the motion of atoms, molecules and other particles which comprise matter. So heat is just friction on the atomic and sub-atomic scale

As for light energy not being able to go through...well that would mean she'd be blind whenever she put up her forcefield

[StarsAndGarters]

Damn, those strategies are both really good. I have to think about this.

[The Fury]

Fire has friction. Fire is still energy and the reaction of 2 or more chemicals where the molecules will readily react to form more chemicals

Heat is a form of energy associated with the motion of atoms, molecules and other particles which comprise matter. So heat is just friction on the atomic and sub-atomic scale

As for light energy not being able to go through...well that would mean she'd be blind whenever she put up her forcefield.
Fire itself does not have friction, it is the one of an extreme by-product of friction. Heat is the main prodtuc of friction. But fire and heat do not have a physical presence that is needed for friction to occur.

Light does not have friction either. Infact most types of energy has no friction. Unless it is concussive force or has some physical properties.

.
.
.

My head hurts.

[Fabian]

Fire itself does not have friction, it is the one of an extreme by-product of friction. Heat is the main prodtuc of friction. But fire and heat do not have a physical presence that is needed for friction to occur.

Light does not have friction either. Infact most types of energy has no friction. Unless it is concussive force or has some physical properties.

.
.
.

My head hurts.
But the forcefield negates friction, one of the main things to produce fire and heat is taken away and that's why she was able to repel it before.

Phasing through it should be easy

[Fabian]

More fun with math!

He can travel at up to 50 miles per hour in a straight line for 30 minutes without tiring appreciably
100 yards = .057 miles

At 50 MPH is should take him .00112 hours

.00112 hours = .0672 minutes

.0672 minutes = 4. 032 seconds

And that's saying he goes from 0-50 instantly


So it should take him around 4-5 seconds before he even reaches one of my guys (if I had them standing there that is)

[Tre Styles]

Strategies are really good. I have to think some more about these...

[venuscameback]

Couple seconds?

In the first second, I teleported away and then came back to drop off the Havok bomb to disorient you guys. That's when I use Lady Mastermind to her potential to come back and get Firestar and Whirwind to attack Selene. The first time she uses her illusion powers before initial teleport is just as much as she can do while being taken away.

Before you teleport away you have Lady Mastermind create this complex illusion (and it has to be complex to be convincing - if the illusion of your team is that they are stood still, it won't convince, especially given we know you have an illusionist on your team) of your team being in a different location and project it into 7 different minds, including two very powerful psis.

I don't see how it's possible for Lady Mastermind to do all that in under one second so that Lila can teleport everyone away "in the first second". That few second opening is all we need for Selene to take Lila out the game

venus

[Fabian]

I'm going to break down the strategies

-There are no initial attacks except for the Psi-bolt. I do not think it can affect my team before I teleport away before the teleporting is instantaneous and a psychic still needs some time (however minute) it is to grab hold of a psyche.

-Mr. Brownstone kills himself. What a tool.

-Then it seems that Venus's team comes together with the exception of Firestar and Whirwind. However I had Havok dropped off and the question becomes whether or not they fly away fast enough to avoid his massive attack.

If Lila does manage a teleport, anyone she ports will find only Selene and TCM near their starting positions.
And they get the majority of Havok's blasts too. Main goal is to disorient the team

-Then Lady Mastermind finally returns to work her mojo. This is where I actually have her be useful. She controls Whirwind and Firestar to go get Selene and this is what they wrote
If Selene, Emma or Whirlwind are attacked by someone on our own side under Lady Mastermind’s influence, they are wicked enough to take them down without hesitation.

The next question then becomes whether or not Shinobi can reach the Skein Skid Frost team. They have a 1-2 second lead going the other way but Emma is almost always in diamond form. She hasn't reverted back to use her telepathy

and damnit...now i have to go to work and can't finish the rest

[Fabian]

Before you teleport away you have Lady Mastermind create this complex illusion (and it has to be complex to be convincing - if the illusion of your team is that they are stood still, it won't convince, especially given we know you have an illusionist on your team) of your team being in a different location and project it into 7 different minds, including two very powerful psis.

I don't see how it's possible for Lady Mastermind to do all that in under one second so that Lila can teleport everyone away "in the first second". That few second opening is all we need for Selene to take Lila out the game
Did I say it was complex? No. I just need an initial distraction

Even if Lady Mastermind can't do it (and I will concede that she probably can't do it any faster than you can do you'r psi-bolt), she is still safe for her to come back and actually do the integral part of the strategy

One second isn't enough to get very far

[venuscameback]

-There are no initial attacks except for the Psi-bolt. I do not think it can affect my team before I teleport away before the teleporting is instantaneous and a psychic still needs some time (however minute) it is to grab hold of a psyche.

Teleporting is near-instantaneous *but* it's not the first thing you do. the first thing is Lady Mastermind casting this complex illusion which you have her do before Lila teleports your team away. Lila can't teleport until Lady mastermind has finished casting the illusion.

Whirlwind is another initial attack, he goes straight for Lady Mastermind

Skein is another initial attack, she attacks Havok, constricting his clothing to squeeze the breath out of him

venus

[venuscameback]

]Then it seems that Venus's team comes together with the exception of Firestar and Whirwind. However I had Havok dropped off and the question becomes whether or not they fly away fast enough to avoid his massive attack.

"Venus' team comes together?"

Emma & Skein, for example, can be inside Skids' field faster than Lila can make three teleports - teleporting your team out, teleporting Havok back in, teleporting herself back out again - and Havok fire his blast, and inside that shield they are protected from Havok

venus

[Fabian]

Teleporting is near-instantaneous *but* it's not the first thing you do. the first thing is Lady Mastermind casting this complex illusion which you have her do before Lila teleports your team away. Lila can't teleport until Lady mastermind has finished casting the illusion.

Whirlwind is another initial attack, he goes straight for Lady Mastermind

Skein is another initial attack, she attacks Havok, constricting his clothing to squeeze the breath out of him

venus
Way to put things in my strategy that are not there. First thing I do is have Lila Cheney teleport everyone away

Lila Cheney teleports everyone on my team (except Mr.Brownstone) to the Dyson Sphere while Lady Mastermind feeds them the illusion that my team is still there.
I never said Lila will wait. I wanted it to be near-instantaneous like you said because getting Havok to your side is my main priority. I even pointed out that I wanted Havok there in less than a second

In less than a second Lila Cheney teleports back into the field as soon as possible into the midst of my opponent's team with Havok
Less than a second of time and Lila is already bringing Havok back


I already pointed out how Whirwind would take 4-5 seconds to reach my side of the field. And given that he jumps the gun, he might need more seconds to return

And Skein would grab Havok after he does his bomb blast and even then it woudl take time and Havok can shoot the beams from any part of his body. At that time, you have her with Skids, Skein and Emma which is where I have Shinobi going

[Fabian]

"Venus' team comes together?"

Emma & Skein, for example, can be inside Skids' field faster than Lila can make three teleports - teleporting your team out, teleporting Havok back in, teleporting herself back out again - and Havok fire his blast, and inside that shield they are protected from Havok

venus
Emma, Skein, and Skids come together while Selene and the Collective Men get together. However far they (Emma, SKids and Skein) can get in the second that Havok comes back is how far they are away from me.

Yes they are protected but Shinobi is going for them and Emma is in her diamond form and can not harm him that way

[venuscameback]

Way to put things in my strategy that are not there. First thing I do is have Lila Cheney teleport everyone away ... I never said Lila will wait.

So Lila teleports Lady Mastermind along with the rest of your team before she casts the illusion?

I don't believe Lady Mastermind can cast an illusion all the way over from the Dyson Sphere, on the other side of the galaxy.

And Skein would grab Havok after he does his bomb blast and even then it woudl take time and Havok can shoot the beams from any part of his body. At that time, you have her with Skids, Skein and Emma which is where I have Shinobi going

Skein doesn't "grab" Havok at all, she uses her specialised TK to manipulate his costume. Skis enevlops her in the shield & Matt ruled that Skids' shield is no defence against psionic attacks, which include TK.

venus

[Jessica Drew]

I'm going with Siddon & venuscameback. I liked the way they put Emma into diamond form (correctly countering Mr. Brownstone's attack), and although I do believe that Selene could zap Lady Mastermind before the teleport, I'm positive that she couldn't work her illusion before Selene could take her out.

[Maka Nani]

I love the way Siddon & Venus turn Emma into a diamond too! And also the fact the Fabian kills Mr. Brownstone off this way and states just that. He knew this was going to happen and did it anyway. This is very interesting to think about!

[Fabian]

So Lila teleports Lady Mastermind along with the rest of your team before she casts the illusion?

I don't believe Lady Mastermind can cast an illusion all the way over from the Dyson Sphere, on the other side of the galaxy.



Skein doesn't "grab" Havok at all, she uses her specialised TK to manipulate his costume. Skis enevlops her in the shield & Matt ruled that Skids' shield is no defence against psionic attacks, which include TK.

venus
Again you're twisting my words

I never said that Lady Mastermind would cast her illusion from the Dyson Sphere. I said that even if she can not cast the illusion, the Havok bomb would still be in effect and that's all I need because the integral part that Lady Mastermind contributes is when she attacks Whirlwind and Firestar

And when I said grab, I meant TK. You're only trying to twist my words again. Can she manipulate Havoks' costume as he does a massive blasts and Shinobi is running to get her?

Remember that you have 3 people in Skid's field. They can't very far in a second. Ever try to have people keep pace when you're carrying something? Imagine that with 3 people

[Fabian]

I'm going with Siddon & venuscameback. I liked the way they put Emma into diamond form (correctly countering Mr. Brownstone's attack), and although I do believe that Selene could zap Lady Mastermind before the teleport, I'm positive that she couldn't work her illusion before Selene could take her out.
If Lady Mastermind can't work her illusion before the teleport, then Selene can't Psi-blast. Both would require the same amount of mental concentration

That's not even the part that I care about with Lady Mastermind. I just need Havok to disorient the other team so that when Lady Mastermind comes back, she can use her powers on Firestar and Whirwind

[venuscameback]

Again you're twisting my words

I never said that Lady Mastermind would cast her illusion from the Dyson Sphere. I said that even if she can not cast the illusion, the Havok bomb would still be in effect and that's all I need because the integral part that Lady Mastermind contributes is when she attacks Whirlwind and Firestar

Fabian, I'm not trying to twist your words, I'm saying that you note two important actions as occuring simultaneously that can't occur simultaneously. You said Lila wasn't waiting for Lady Mastermind to complete the illusion before teleporting but you also insist Lady Mastermind completes the illusion before being teleported. I was highlighting the contradiction. I didn't think for one moment that Lady Mastermind was trying to cast an illusion from the Dyson Sphere - I used those words to underline my point that unless you were trying to do that there would have to be a delay before that first teleport occurred. You say one second, I say several.

And when I said grab, I meant TK. You're only trying to twist my words again. Can she manipulate Havoks' costume as he does a massive blasts and Shinobi is running to get her?

My intention, Fabian was to clarify for voters (as well as you) that Skein was secure inside Skids' field and not making a physical attack but a TK attack, which the word "grab" implies. You say you meant TK, cool, but I didn't want your choice of words to leave anyone else thinking that Skein was physically grabbing Havok. I wasn't trying to twist your words I was wanting to make sure it was clear to everyone

venus

[Fabian]

Fabian, I'm not trying to twist your words, I'm saying that you note two important actions as occuring simultaneously that can't occur simultaneously. You said Lila wasn't waiting for Lady Mastermind to complete the illusion before teleporting but you also insist Lady Mastermind completes the illusion before being teleported. I was highlighting the contradiction. I didn't think for one moment that Lady Mastermind was trying to cast an illusion from the Dyson Sphere - I used those words to underline my point that unless you were trying to do that there would have to be a delay before that first teleport occurred. You say one second, I say several.


My intention, Fabian was to clarify for voters (as well as you) that Skein was secure inside Skids' field and not making a physical attack but a TK attack, which the word "grab" implies. You say you meant TK, cool, but I didn't want your choice of words to leave anyone else thinking that Skein was physically grabbing Havok. I wasn't trying to twist your words I was wanting to make sure it was clear to everyone

venus
I only wanted Lady Mastermind in the beginning as an initial distraction and not as a complex illusion. The only thing I want her to do is grab hold of Whirlwind and Firestar. Everything else she does is mostly fluff for me


When did I insist she completes the illusion? I conceded that she most likely can't and that it doesn't matter if she does

And Skein can't grab Havok until he returns and she manages to do it while Shinobi is gunning for her

[Siddon]

Again you're twisting my words

I never said that Lady Mastermind would cast her illusion from the Dyson Sphere. I said that even if she can not cast the illusion, the Havok bomb would still be in effect and that's all I need because the integral part that Lady Mastermind contributes is when she attacks Whirlwind and Firestar

And when I said grab, I meant TK. You're only trying to twist my words again. Can she manipulate Havoks' costume as he does a massive blasts and Shinobi is running to get her?

Remember that you have 3 people in Skid's field. They can't very far in a second. Ever try to have people keep pace when you're carrying something? Imagine that with 3 people

Would you like me to twist your words?

It seems to me that you where way to predictable in your gameplan you keep using the same two characters over and over again and you don't really have a convincing way to defend them. We knew that you where going to rely on Lady Mastermind and Lil Cheney and we put our strongest players on them.

Lets be real here Fabian you based your gameplan on 1 move and that move fails.

[Fabian]

Would you like me to twist your words?

It seems to me that you where way to predictable in your gameplan you keep using the same two characters over and over again and you don't really have a convincing way to defend them. We knew that you where going to rely on Lady Mastermind and Lil Cheney and we put our strongest players on them.

Lets be real here Fabian you based your gameplan on 1 move and that move fails.
Siddon, you may do whatever you wish. I'm only trying to clarify some things you guys said I did that I didn't. I conceded on parts that had trouble and where it wouldn't work.

The essential move was the Havok attack.

Well of course I relied on my more versaitile characters, like anyone would. If there's one thing my characters have is that they have very few appearances and most of the things I have them listed as doing are always in question.

I had other moves as back-ups too.

[venuscameback]

Would you like me to twist your words?

It seems to me that you where way to predictable in your gameplan you keep using the same two characters over and over again and you don't really have a convincing way to defend them. We knew that you where going to rely on Lady Mastermind and Lil Cheney and we put our strongest players on them.

Lets be real here Fabian you based your gameplan on 1 move and that move fails.
Calm down Siddon. No need to be rude.

Fabian's strategy is good, there are some really good moves in it.

venus

[Fabian]

Calm down Siddon. No need to be rude.

Fabian's strategy is good, there are some really good moves in it.

venus
And you guys made a tool of Mr Brownstone. That idiot

Also, I was told that I'm coming off as hyper competitive and angry which is not my intent (not in the thread, but somewhere else). I'm just always up for a debate

[Siddon]

Calm down Siddon. No need to be rude.

Fabian's strategy is good, there are some really good moves in it.

venus


I'm calm, just annoyed. There may be some really good moves but there are also tons of bad moves. And that Havok bomb is against the rules, we play the game in character and Havok doesn't kill right now. He's not going to set off a charge that could kill any of the Collective men or Skien and the blast wouldn't be effective against those with shielding such as well everyone else.

[Fabian]

I'm calm, just annoyed. There may be some really good moves but there are also tons of bad moves. And that Havok bomb is against the rules, we play the game in character and Havok doesn't kill right now. He's not going to set off a charge that could kill any of the Collective men or Skien and the blast wouldn't be effective against those with shielding such as well everyone else.
This is where things get troublesome.

Did I say Havok killed them? No, I said knock out or disorient them. I listed the comic where he used the move I was talking going for. Heck, I even quoted an issue summary for it.

Wait, I forgot who I am talking to and how you acted last year when your initial team strategy wasn't allowed.

Venus, I've enjoyed discussing strategies with you

[Siddon]

This is where things get troublesome.

Did I say Havok killed them? No, I said knock out or disorient them. I listed the comic where he used the move I was talking going for. Heck, I even quoted an issue summary for it.

Wait, I forgot who I am talking to and how you acted last year when your initial team strategy wasn't allowed.

Venus, I've enjoyed discussing strategies with you

Well at best its ineffective because the charge would have to be so slight that it would knock out the collective men but would leave characters like Selene up and fully mobile.

At worst its illegal.

As for your attempts to bash me. Maybe you should work that in your next gameplan you might get more votes that way.

[venuscameback]

This is where things get troublesome.

Did I say Havok killed them? No, I said knock out or disorient them. I listed the comic where he used the move I was talking going for. Heck, I even quoted an issue summary for it.

Wait, I forgot who I am talking to and how you acted last year when your initial team strategy wasn't allowed.

Venus, I've enjoyed discussing strategies with you

Siddon's right to ask the question about the Havok bomb because the Collective Men have only athletic human durability.

However Havok has the experience to know how strong to fire the blast; he will have to keep it fairly low to avoid killing any of the TCM. I missed this, it's a good point that Siddon raises, because a blast that won't risk killing TCM will have less affect on the rest of our team.

That said I thought it was one of Fabian's better moves - I'd forgotten Havok could do omni-directional blasts

venus

[venuscameback]

Wait, I forgot who I am talking to and how you acted last year when your initial team strategy wasn't allowed.

As for your attempts to bash me. Maybe you should work that in your next gameplan you might get more votes that way.

Come on kids, knock it off

venus

[Dan Apodaca]

Whirlwind is a perpetual loser. His presence dooms any team. Fabian gets my vote.

[Siddon]

Whirlwind is a perpetual loser. His presence dooms any team. Fabian gets my vote.

how'd that work out for you

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

As for your attempts to bash me. Maybe you should work that in your next gameplan you might get more votes that way.

how'd that work out for you

I'd say he can hold his head higher than if he'd voted for a sore winning snot like you.


(Man I miss the x-board!)

[Siddon]

I'd say he can hold his head higher than if he'd voted for a sore winning snot like you.


(Man I miss the x-board!)

Oh hey look a name-calling, I am so not used to that. Nope not at all. It’s the maturity that brings me to these boards. And yeah boy am I sore winner god I was such as a$$hole to the other guys I beat. I really need to work on my social graces.

Thank you for showing me the way FunkyGreenJerusalem.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Oh hey look a name-calling, I am so not used to that. Nope not at all. It’s the maturity that brings me to these boards. And yeah boy am I sore winner god I was such as a$$hole to the other guys I beat. I really need to work on my social graces.

Thank you for showing me the way FunkyGreenJerusalem.

It's the calling other people immature in the middle of a rant on the net about a made up game involving made up characters that always brings me back.

[Siddon]

It's the calling other people immature in the middle of a rant on the net about a made up game involving made up characters that always brings me back.

Who said anything about immaturity I think you are all really mature. Hey look at you and your posting in Community forum cause thats what the C in CBR stands for community.

I thought I was being flippant I might need to tone it down a bit

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Who said anything about immaturity I think you are all really mature. Hey look at you and your posting in Community forum cause thats what the C in CBR stands for community.

I thought I was being flippant I might need to tone it down a bit

Are you this fun when you lose?

[Siddon]

Are you this fun when you lose?

I'm fun?

Mostly I just have this weird unjustified victims complex

[Dan Apodaca]

how'd that work out for you

I don't understand what this sentence means. I take it from your posts with Funky that you have some beef with people who hang around the Community Board.

Relax, man. It's just a message board.

[venuscameback]

I don't understand what this sentence means. I take it from your posts with Funky that you have some beef with people who hang around the Community Board.

Relax, man. It's just a message board.

I think Siddon has a problem with folk from the Comm board who turn up only to vote in Fabian's matches and only to vote for Fabian. I think that's what he means

Funky, did you show up here just to argue with Siddon? If so then the two of you are as bad as each other

Siddon, please remember I only agreed to partner up with you if you quit this kind of attitude this year. Don't make us both regret that decision. I had more than enough of your attitude last year

venus