Bringing Hal Back

[Bored at 3:00AM]

First off, if you don't think Hal should have come back, don't bothering replying. I've heard all the reasons for keeping Hal dead before. This thread isn't about that.

And we've all heard the Yellow Fear Monster is Stupid arguements before too. This thread isn't about that either.

And if you don't like Hal and just want to let us know about that one more time, you can give this thread a pass. Nothing to see here.

This thread is for the Hal fans who actually wanted him back.

What would you have done if DC had asked you how to bring Hal back?

Evil Twin from the 58th Century?

Brain-Eating Sandworm from Star Trek II?

He was just really, really drunk for a decade and a half?

[TommyV]

Anything any of us would've come up with wouldn't have been anywhere near as good as what Johns did - I don't quite understand the need for this thread.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Anything any of us would've come up with wouldn't have been anywhere near as good as what Johns did - I don't quite understand the need for this thread.

Just curious. I know comics fans. Everybody had their own little pet theory as to how they could bring Hal back. Every creator or fan who gave a crap about Hal, at least.

I loved what Johns did, but I'd love to hear what others had in mind.

[TommyV]

Just curious. I know comics fans. Everybody had their own little pet theory as to how they could bring Hal back. Every creator or fan who gave a crap about Hal, at least.

I loved what Johns did, but I'd love to hear what others had in mind.

Understood. I'm just so used to seeing the unadulturated snark on these boards (I know comics fans too), and so I got defensive - sorry about that. I would be curious to know if someone had a better way of handling it than Johns did too, but man - he deserves accollades for not only finding a way to have it all make sense, but for adding real emotion and being completely respectful to the supporting characters and what had gone on before. But that's what he does best. We're truly lucky as fans to have someone like him behind these big projects.

[The Scribe]

Just off the top of my head.

1. Maybe the original Spectre comes back to reclaim his position.

2. A new Guardians (the little blue guys and girls) counsel is reassembled and they some how help seperate Hal from the Spectre.

3. Dr. Fate helps to seperate Hal and The Spectre.

Maybe a combination.

Well, anyway it's already over.
So, these are just crazy ideas. :p

[ryan_catcher]

I think Rebirth worked out great, minus one thing:

Coast City should have never been restored. It was a hole in his heart that should have always remained there.

[Lorendiac]

For years before Rebirth happened, my thoughts tended to go in one of two directions on this subject.

1. The Dark Phoenix Method. Reveal that it wasn't really Hal at all; it was someone else who had taken his place; such a perfect copy that everyone else (apparently including the Guardians of the Universe) fell for it at the time.

2. The Retcon Erasure Option. In the wake of some cosmos-changing event along the lines of Crisis on Infinite Earths or Zero Hour, erase the whole "Emerald Twilight" mess (and all Hal-related stories that followed it) so that nothing like that ever happened, and nobody in the modern DCU remembered it ever happening, and it would never be mentioned in any story again.

[Tadhg]

Hypertime. The New Frontier tributary feeds into the Main DCU river giving us Cooke's Hal.

[Ian J.N.]

Hmm.. the Spectre, or Kyle or someone, discovers a near perfect duplicate of the Earth in a remote galaxy. The Coast City of this Earth is still intact, as Mongul (an alien to the planet) was never there to destroy it. Hence, Hal is still an untarnished hero, albeit a retired one. His ring stopped functioning when Parallax destroyed the Central Power Battery.

So, stuff happens... Hal is reinstated as Green Lantern, but the duplicate Earth ends up destroyed. In a state of grief, history nearly repeats itself, but Spectre counsels Hal through the tragedy. In this trippy way, Hal-Spectre earns his redemption and so moves on to the afterlife. Hal-Green Lantern, certifiably not-evil, is sent to Earth. The End.

I thought Johns did an excellent job, but if I were to do a one off reboot, that's probably what I'd do. I know it sounds a bit lame, but I think it'd make for a neato sci-fi tale.

[The Wayner]

I honestly never thought about reviving Hal... once he was dead, and floating around as the Spectre, I just went with it.

But, this is an interesting proposition. I'll have to give it some thought.

Great thread!

And, btw, I loved how Johns brought Hal back. :)

[Watery Tart]

My problem with the way he was brought back was how it so quickly and easily absolved him of all responsibility for the people he killed. And when his book is running simultaneously with a mega-crossover to which the point is getting heroes to accept responsibility for their actions, and in which "mind control is NOT AN EXCUSE for someone so powerful" is a major theme, it just seems incongruous that he'd be welcomed back with open arms (with the exception of Bats). I'm not saying don't bring him back, I'm saying just because it wasn't necessarily the best-written fall from grace, doesn't mean it didn't happen, and it merits bigger ramifications.

That being said, I don't know what specific plot device I would use for bringing him back, but I would want to take that into account after his return and focus more on his coming to terms and SLOWLY earning back the other heroes' trust.

(ETA a disclaimer: I haven't read any of the Hal-as-Spectre stuff, so it's entirely possible that this was dealt with then and I just don't know about it.)

[The Shadow]

First off, if you don't think Hal should have come back, don't bothering replying.
... DAMMIT! :mad:



;) :D

[TheCrisisKid]

Hmmm.

I would like to have seen Sinestro have like a group of villians and bad gl's just storm OA. They beat down all the newbies and a lot of the vets are hurt badly. It comes down to like Sinestro and his group versus Kyle. Sinestro says to leave him alone while he beats Kyle. Sinestro drops his yellow ring and picks a green ring off of a newbie. Kyle tries his best, but Sinestro's experience with the ring and the power puts him over. Kyle is on the ground bleeding from his mouth, and looking up at Sinestro who has a green sword in his hands.

Sinestro swings, Kyle closes his eyes, and we hear a big GASH noise. Kyle opens his eyes and he sees the Spectre standing in front of him. The sword that Sinestro swung just went through the Spectre (Hal)'s stomach. Hal starts to bleed from his mouth, but a grin comes across his face.

Sinestro's like, "what are you smiling about?". Hal exclaims that Sinestro has just given a fatal blow to him, and he will die soon. Sinestro says, "one single slash from a sword cannot kill such a god as yourself!" and Hal says, "it can if I want it to!". The spectre looks up, and evaporates into thin air.

Sinestro dashes back to Kyle ready to swing his bloody sword once more, but out of nowhere, time is stopped. Sinestro looks around, and wonders why he can't move his body, and so does Kyle. Loud voices come out of the sky telling Sinestro that he's just killed a god, and he will be punished for it. Sinestro proclaims, hurt him, punish him all you want, he's been through worse. Another voice says, "that is true". The first voice then says, "then we will need to settle this in a unusual way". "Sinestro, for the sin of killing a god, you will be punished but not by us, but by someone who gave you the worst punishment of your life". Sinestro figures out who they are talking about, and he's like "no, you can't do that, he's dead!"

The first voice says, "He is dead, but he has payed for his sins, and thanks to you, will be given another chance."

Time is unfrozen. Sinestro looks around. Out of nowhere, a light shoots down and blinds everyone. It's a large beam of light. Nobody can see what is happening. After a few seconds, the light dims, and Sinestro opens his eyes, and looks around. He can't see if anything has changed, and just smirks and gives a small laugh. "This is the best you can do!" He walks over to Kyle, still down on the ground bleeding from his mouth. "See, KID, even the gods cannot stop me!"

"---but I can!" is said, and a fist comes out and hits Sinestro right in the side of his face. It knocks him quite a distance off. He stands up, rubs his face. "Ouch, that hurt!" he says. He looks forward and is shocked to see Hal Jordan standing there. Hal Jordan is standing there in his regular clothes. "How are you here!? You...are...dead!" Hal Jordan tells Sinestro that the gods have put him back on this planet and brung him back to life so that he can make sure Sinestro is punished for now and for everytime in the future. Sinestro says, "That was a lucky punch. How are you supposed to do anything to me, you don't even have a ring!" Hal tells Sinestro that it's not the ring that makes the person, it's the person that makes the ring. Kyle then looks up to him and takes his ring off and hands it to Hal. "I think this is yours..." Kyle says. (this goes back to when Hal and Kyle exchanged rings in the mini-series where Kyle went back to past and met Hal before he turned into Parallax). "Thanks Kyle," Hal says, and puts the ring on his finger. He then changes his costume to his current suit, and says, "Ah, this looks much better".

Sinestro looks scared, and tells his group to attack Hal. They all fly towards Hal, and get in a fight. One by one, Hal out manuevers, outplays, outslugs each one, and before we know it, they are on the ground all beat. Sinestro sees this and shoots a shot towards Kyle and flies off. Hal quickly blocks the blast, and says, "You can't get away that easily". He flies after Sinestro. He runs into a yellow wall, and falls to the ground. Hal gets up, and Sinestro has a yellow ring on his left hand and a slew of green rings on his right hand. "It looks like I have the advantage now" Sinestro says. "What did I tell you Sinestro, it's not the ring that makes the person, it's the person --" out of nowhere Sinestro shoots out a large green and a large yellow fist at Hal and it hits him and knocks him pretty far.

Sinestro flies over to where Hal flew. He picks him up and starts punching him. Hal follows up with a uppercut to Sinestro's face and a punch in the stomach. The two guys are fighting hand to hand for a while. Sinestro gets the advantage and sweeps Hal's feet from underneith him using his ring. Sinestro makes a large warrior and he's inside of it. The large warrior has a large axe, and he lifts it up and right when Hal is getting up, he swings it right at him. "This will be the end of you Hal Jordan, nobody could block this at this speed!". Hal sees it coming and makes a large shield using his ring. The axe hits the shield and applies a lot of pressure to Hal forcing him more into the ground with every second. "It's futile Jordan, you can't stop this!" Hal closes his eyes and images of what has happened in his life flash through his head. He sees his life as a air pilot, his loved ones, he even sees his home town destroyed Coast City just like it was before. Hal lets out a huge scream and puts a barrier around himself and pushes him up through his sheild, through Sinestro's axe, all the way up through the arm and body of the warrior Sinestro made. "You can't do that!" Sinestro shouts as he pushes more of his energy into his creations. Hal gets up to Sinestro and just knocks the living crap out of him. Sinestro is thrown to the ground, and is bleeding out of his mouth and nose. He looks up and see Hal standing above him. "Can..."

Hal just flies at Sinestro and starts to beat the living crap out of him. Hard swings and beating the crap out of him. Knocking him all over the place. He lifts Sinestro up, takes off all his rings, and winds his arm back. This will be the finishing blow. Sinestro closes his eyes. Hal just drops him. "Your not worth my time." he says. Hal puts a bubble around Sinestro and flies back to the main battery. He talks with the guardians about what they should do with Sinestro. They decide to hurl Sinestro into space. Hal with all his power hurls Sinestro in the bubble into space. Kyle says, now recovering, "Won't he be back?". "Probably. But when he shows up again, I'll be there to stop him."

The camera goes to the back of Kyle and Hal and shows them just looking into space. It then follows up and into space with the last picture of OA in space with a little star in the background to show where Sinestro went.

THE END

[The Wayner]

CrisisKid: I'll give you points just for the well thought post!

Very interesting read, have to admit. I like the idea of Sinestro and cronies storming Oa. Should've killed off Kyle, though... ;)

[Capt USA]

crisis kid, could sinestro then become spectre in your version of the story????


decent touch, I just dislike the idea of kyle not being able to handle sinestro, but hal can.

[TheCrisisKid]

The reason I did that was because I feel experience is more powerful than...power I guess. Sinestro's been using a ring to construct stuff since there were GL's, and Kyle has been using a ring for alittle less than 10 years (I might be wrong here). Sinestro has so much more experience, that I do feel in a fight, giving that both powers were equal, that Sinestro would be able to defeat Kyle in a battle.

And again, it wasn't just Sinestro versus Kyle, it was Kyle and newbies and a few Vets versus Sinestro and his group of villians and experienced rouge gl's. By itself, Sinestro's team has the advantage. Throw in that most newbie gl's haven't gotten over the yellow weakness (as stated in the newest gl comics), Sinestro could easily take them on himself.

I just felt it wasn't too out of character for Sinestro and a group to beat newbie gls and Kyle.

Out of continuity this is most likely, but so what, I mean, I just typeed this out in like 10 minutes lol.

[Babylon23]

Years ago, I had an idea where Hal was actually replaced by an antimatter double from Qward, and the double was the one that went nuts. Kyle would travel to Qward, and find the real Hal.

Overall, I think Johns handled Hal's return beautifully.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I haven't chimed in with my own various theories yet, so I'll lay out what I figured were the main suspects and possible explainations prior to Rebirth...

During the 1960s, Hal would frequently be whisked to the year 5700AD and assume the identity of astronaut and Solar Director Pol Manning. During the last of Broome & Kane's Pol Manning stories, it was revealed that Hal's constant bouncing back and forth between the 20th & 58th Centuries had created a mentally unbalanced evil twin of Pol Manning. At the end of the story, the evil Hal/Pol twin was eventually defeated, mindwiped and sent off to deepest reaches of space, never to return. Parallax would have been a neat way of bringing this villain back.

In a story from the early 1980s featuring the Anti-Matter Universe, Hal was turned evil when he was hit with a concentrated blast from the Central Power Battery the Qwardians had built for their Black Lantern Corps. Of course, by story's end, Hal was restored to normal, but it would have been pretty easy to bring that idea back to explain Parallax...and it would have kept Sinestro in the mix as well, to serve as the evil mastermind behind it all.

Throughout the late 1980s and 1990s, Hal fought a mysterious villain named The Predator, who had first stalked and kidnapped Carol Ferris, then merged with her to become a mentally unbalanced and homocidal incarnation of Star Sapphire. Right before Emerald Twilight, it was revealed that The Predator was in fact an ancient demon spawned from the blood of the first immortal of the planet Maltus, birthworld of the Guardians. It was later learned that The Predator was part of a race of demons from Qward's Hell. Since The Predator was a parasite that would infect the mind of an emotionally traumatized person and warp their personality into a homocidal lunatic, that seemed like a pretty good fit for Parallax.

[Citizen V]

First off, if you don't think Hal should have come back, don't bothering replying. I've heard all the reasons for keeping Hal dead before. This thread isn't about that.

And we've all heard the Yellow Fear Monster is Stupid arguements before too. This thread isn't about that either.

And if you don't like Hal and just want to let us know about that one more time, you can give this thread a pass. Nothing to see here.

This thread is for the Hal fans who actually wanted him back.

What would you have done if DC had asked you how to bring Hal back?

Evil Twin from the 58th Century?

Brain-Eating Sandworm from Star Trek II?

He was just really, really drunk for a decade and a half?

I heard that the Emerald Dawn and Emerald Twilight was actually rushed,and that the writer who wrote those books actually could not put all of the ideas that they wanted to,into the comic itself.This is why so many people did not understand Hal Jordan,Green Lantern turning evil within a few issues.However i did not bother to go into detail,i dont know who wrote both Emeralds or if it was the same person.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I heard that the Emerald Dawn and Emerald Twilight was actually rushed,and that the writer who wrote those books actually could not put all of the ideas that they wanted to,into the comic itself.This is why so many people did not understand Hal Jordan,Green Lantern turning evil within a few issues.However i did not bother to go into detail,i dont know who wrote both Emeralds or if it was the same person.

The first issue of Emerald Dawn, Hal's Post-Crisis origin reboot, was written by Jim Owlsey AKA Christopher Priest AKA Priest, who left the book when he couldn't agree on a creative direction with Andy Hefler. Priest now claims that the Hal as a drunk driver retcon wasn't his idea and he intended that Hal would be falsely accused of drunk driving, but would actually be innocent. Dunno if I believe that, but whatever... As a result, Keith Giffen & Gerard Jones were quickly brought in to finish the book and salvage the story, which they did by trying to have Hal take responsibility for the drunk driving and serve 90 days in prison for it. All in all, the story is a bit of a mess. Emerald Dawn II is much better, largely thanks to the "Sinestro trained Hal" retcon.

The infamous Emerald Twilight's history is even messier. Gerard Jones, who was the main writer for the entire GL line at the time, had planned and written a very different Emerald Twilight storyline in which Hal was thrown into the middle of a civil war between two factions of Guardians, each claiming the others were imposters. Hal, by his lonesome, allied himself with the losing faction and was forced to battle the entire GLCorps, now led by a resurrected Sinestro. The story was going to culminate with Hal entering the Central Power Battery to internalize his powers and re-emerging in his new Parallax costume--as a fugitive hero. The story was meant to continue with Hal fleeing to Earth, banding together a giant army consisting of the Justice League, Justice Society & Teen Titans to retake Oa from the fake Guardians.

In the end it was to be revealed that the Guardians had orchestrated the death of Hal's father in order to shape him into their greatest Green Lantern. Unable to serve the Guardians any further knowing this, Hal would leave the Corps behind and entrust his ring to a young artist on Earth named Kyle Rayner to continue on as the new Green Lantern of Earth.

DC Editorial didn't think this was "shocking" enough and removed Jones as writer, ditched his story, which had already been solicited and was in the process of being drawn by Daryl Banks with covers by Kevin Maguire. DC Editorial then brought in Ron Marz to quickly script a new storyline they'd plotted that had Hal going insane and becoming a mentally unstable villain. However, it was Marz's ideas to have Hal chop off hands and murder Kilowog. Because that sure made a lot of sense..."I just want to bring these innocent people back to life! Die, Kilowog! Die!" Huh?

You can find the original art for Jones' Emerald Twilight out on the net. I think there might still be links to them in the GL FAQ. Not sure though.

[TheCrisisKid]

Wow, they should so do a elseworlds and tell that story. I'd buy it in like a milli-second.

[DracoMalfoy]

I dislike the "Yellow Fear Monster" cop-out. It took away ALOT of potential from Hal's character in my opinion. By him coming back as an untrusted pariah, he would have been a much more interesting character.

[rfahey]

If they didn't find some way to absolve him of his guilt, then he'd be maybe the second most genocidal maniac the universe had ever seen (he didn't kill as many as the Antimonitor, but probably more than Alexander Luthor, counting the ghost earths). Not only would the JLA presumably feel uncomfortable flying around with him, but they would probably have to turn him over to some intergalactic authority or vaporize him on the spot. I picked up Rebirth about a month ago, and I have to say that I feel they made the most of a bad situation. Now, whether or not they should have just left him dead, that's another issue.