Is anybody else out there NOT excited about Brubaker on Uncanny?

[handOFfate]

I was before "Deadly Genesis", which i've found disappointing. I just don't see Brubaker as a good fit for the X-Men. He seems to work better with non-powered characters like Catwoman and Captain America. Plus he's going to have a lot of writing choirs, and i'm afraid that'll curb his creativity somewhat. I'm not going to pick up Uncanny until I can get other people's reviews.

[Flight]

Why not buy the first issue and review yourself?

[Brian M.]

I was before "Deadly Genesis", which i've found disappointing. I just don't see Brubaker as a good fit for the X-Men. He seems to work better with non-powered characters like Catwoman and Captain America. Plus he's going to have a lot of writing choirs, and i'm afraid that'll curb his creativity somewhat. I'm not going to pick up Uncanny until I can get other people's reviews.

It wasn't known he was on Uncanny before DG so how could you be excited about it before DG?

[Beast]

Why not buy the first issue and review yourself?
That's what I'm going to do. I'm interested in what Brubaker's plans are, and I'll see where he goes with things. He seems to have a good grasp of continuity and respect for the characters, so that's a plus. So far I'm enjoying 'Deadly Genesis' for the most part, so I'm on board for the ride. I'm much more hesitant about Adjectiveless X-Men however, mostly due to the team choices. :)

[fishtaco]

I will be reading it with an open mind, but I am certainly not excited. I much prefer the writer that is currently on Uncanny X-Men.

[Babylon23]

I'm not all that excited, although I'm a fan of Brubaker. My main disappointment lies in Billy Tan as the new artist. I'm not a fan of his work. I'll have a look at the first issue, but I doubt I'll be buying it.

[The Fury]

I was not really excited at first. Infact annoyed at the loss of Claremont, but it was made apparent that his contract was up and this was all he was going to do anyway, so I was cool with it. But I was not excited...

Until I saw the line up and the art for the cover...I am now expecting big things from him Although still disappointed with the choice of artist.

Oh and he'd better not kill anyone when he starts.

[Chiasm]

I'm sad to see CC leave Uncanny but I like Deadly Genesis and Captain America so I'm optimistic about Uncanny's future.

My only concern with Brubaker is that he isn't showing a lot of variety in plots. Deadly Genesis and Captain America both have the same core plot right now: Someone from the distant past that was thought dead isn't. And now they are back and its going to really create havoc. I'm hoping that isn't a sign that he's out of ideas.

[Brian M.]

Apprently Daredevil is going to show another plot besides the "deep dark secret".

[handOFfate]

It wasn't known he was on Uncanny before DG so how could you be excited about it before DG?

I meant up to the current issue i've read (#3), not issue #1.

[LoganCross]

i've been reading uncanny x-men for almost 20 years, so no matter who writes it, i read it....and as far as i'm concerned claremont is irreplacable. i was sad to see him go in the early 90's and i am sad to see him go this time too. but brubaker seems to be a fan fave, writing different books with a lot of popularity, so we will have to wait and see. i haven't really read any of his stuff, save for deadly genesis, which i think is okay so far. but it is always interesting to get a different take on my favorite comics so i will approach it with an open mind.

[Faded]

I'm excited but cautious (not against Brubaker--just that I'm always cautious). :)

[Brian M.]

I'm excited but cautious (not against Brubaker--just that I'm always cautious). :)

Yea, I'm really excited about it, his work seems to be good. Caution isn't bad, I mean we are spending our money on it.

You were never cautious the other night?

[DDM]

I'll keep an open mind about him on Uncanny X-Men; however, following in the foosteps of Chris Claremont is really bad for Brubaker. Anyone really replacing Claremont is not in a good position.

[xakko]

I'm neither excited or not. I'm dropping the book due to editorial, not Mr. Brubaker.

I still think the last two issues of Deadly Genesis have a lot of 'splaining to do to make certain things fit, but it's not an impossible feat.

[cable guy]

I'm very excited about Brubaker coming to Uncanny.

But I hate seeing Claremont go. Again!

So I'm torn, in some ways. But I'm really eager to see what he has in store for the X-Men. I'm really hoping it will be good. If anyone can follow in Claremont's footsteps (right now), it's Brubaker.

[Carl Orr]

I'm not all that excited, although I'm a fan of Brubaker. My main disappointment lies in Billy Tan as the new artist. I'm not a fan of his work. I'll have a look at the first issue, but I doubt I'll be buying it.

Billy Tan is my main Uncanny turnoff too.

[DDM]

I'm neither excited or not. I'm dropping the book due to editorial, not Mr. Brubaker.

I still think the last two issues of Deadly Genesis have a lot of 'splaining to do to make certain things fit, but it's not an impossible feat.

Tom Brevoort could do wonders if he was the X-Men group editor. Then Mike Marts would trash what's left of the Avengers books....

[TheWolfOfAsgard]

I'm looking forward to seeing him on Uncanny. I just wish he could have the leeway that he did on some of the other things he's done like The Authority.

[Flight]

Anyone really replacing Claremont is not in a good position. Hmm, you mean like say, Morrison?
The best X-Writer ever?

[xakko]

Hmm, you mean like say, Morrison?
The best X-Writer ever?
you only say that because he never ruined Havok.

[Citizen V]

I was before "Deadly Genesis", which i've found disappointing. I just don't see Brubaker as a good fit for the X-Men. He seems to work better with non-powered characters like Catwoman and Captain America. Plus he's going to have a lot of writing choirs, and i'm afraid that'll curb his creativity somewhat. I'm not going to pick up Uncanny until I can get other people's reviews.

Im have very mixed reviews,i was not a fan of Deadly Genesis either.Sad to say that CC is still perhaps the only decent writer for Uncanny,then again,the X-Men have been in a rut since Morrison. :(

[jj9126]

I was before "Deadly Genesis", which i've found disappointing. I just don't see Brubaker as a good fit for the X-Men. He seems to work better with non-powered characters like Catwoman and Captain America. Plus he's going to have a lot of writing choirs, and i'm afraid that'll curb his creativity somewhat. I'm not going to pick up Uncanny until I can get other people's reviews.

Nah, I feel pretty much the same way. I loved "Sleeper", I love "Cap" but "Deadly Genesis" has left me cold so far. It's a little mechanical, a little safe. The dialogue is ok, but completely unmemorable.

It's similar to how I felt about Brubaker's run on "The Authority". Technically - Brubaker's run should have been exciting (strife within the team, multiple character deaths, a new leader) but it still came off as vanilla. Maybe team books aren't his thing.

I'll still pick it up though.

[Stephane Garrelie]

Frankly there could be worse writers than Brubaker.

[Hi-Fi]

I couldn't be more excited about it!!

[Joe Rice]

I wasn't excited about it before, but not for the reason you might mean. I wanted to see him tackle something a little more interesting or personal. I was afraid these corporate super comics were draining the skill and life out of him. But his first Daredevil issue was pretty damned great, so I'll definitely check out his X-Men. It's not like he could do worse that Claremont.

[Jake V]

Hmm, you mean like say, Morrison?
The best X-Writer ever?
Technically, Morrison replaced Lobdell. But yeah, I get what you're saying.

[Chiasm]

I'll keep an open mind about him on Uncanny X-Men; however, following in the foosteps of Chris Claremont is really bad for Brubaker. Anyone really replacing Claremont is not in a good position.

Lobdell did pretty well for himself overall. Some of his created characters like Maggot were pretty lame but Age of Apocolypse and Generation X put him in the upper echelon of all X-writers.

[Jake V]

Frankly there could be worse writers than Brubaker.
You mean like the guys currently on the books? :)

[fishtaco]

Lobdell did pretty well for himself overall. Some of his created characters like Maggot were pretty lame but Age of Apocolypse and Generation X put him in the upper echelon of all X-writers.I'm going to have to disagree there. Scott Lobdell did stuff like reforming Emma Frost, devoting a milestone issue to a large continuity error, introducing a lame mutant STD, killing off Magik, turning Colossus into an Acolyte, killing Colossus, writing Magneto like a one dimensional psychopath, convoluting the Soulsword plot, killing off Multiple Man, taking away Excalibur's individual identity, writing a major continuity error about DOFP Nightcrawler in EXC 35, making Archangel and Psylocke a couple, attempting to kill off Longshot, introducing a new boring Alpha Flight, introducing Joseph, writing Storm like Xavier's lackey, and giving Psylocke lame Crimson Dawn powers.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Yes, I'm excited obout this.

Here we have a guy who built up a good reputation as an indy writer first, who shows a solidrespect for contuity and history, who says he believes i writing epic adventure (which he says he misses in Uncanny) and whos current mini-series has showed just some of the kind of things that have been missing from Uncanny for quite a while.

Yes, losing Claremont is a bugger. His work across House of and Grey's End has captivated me, in particular. But, well, we move on. And I can't think of any more natural a successor, on paper.

As for Billy Tan, give the guy a break. I thought his fill in art on the last issue of Uncanny was really good. I have certain resrvations over how he draws Nightcrawler right now, but I think in the long run he will work out.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I'm excited about Brubaker's run on Uncanny. I'm not getting Deadly Genesis so no clue about that. Odds are he's stepping into the usual mountain of anger that is the X-Books and whatever he does will be met by some with... " Damn them ! "

[Vegetarian Goat]

I'm going to have to disagree there. Scott Lobdell did stuff like reforming Emma Frost, devoting a milestone issue to a large continuity error, introducing a lame mutant STD, killing off Magik, turning Colossus into an Acolyte, killing Colossus, writing Magneto like a one dimensional psychopath, convoluting the Soulsword plot, killing off Multiple Man, taking away Excalibur's individual identity, writing a major continuity error about DOFP Nightcrawler in EXC 35, making Archangel and Psylocke a couple, attempting to kill off Longshot, introducing a new boring Alpha Flight, introducing Joseph, writing Storm like Xavier's lackey, and giving Psylocke lame Crimson Dawn powers.

I'd bet there are some people out there who like what he did with Emma Frost, Angel & Psylocke. And Joseph wasn't a bad mystery, it just had a weak conclusion. And i don't really think Lobdell was the one who killed off Multiple Man. I could've sworn someone else was responsible for writing that issue.

And how was the Trial of Gambit (i assume that's the milestone issue you're talking about) a continuity error?

[TheWolfOfAsgard]

What mutant STD got introduced?

[Beast]

What mutant STD got introduced?
I believe he's referring to 'The Legacy Virus'. :)

[Hi-Fi]

Lobdell didn't kill Multiple Man, Fishtaco. JM de Matteis did.

Now go do some research before bitching again.

[TheWolfOfAsgard]

I believe he's referring to 'The Legacy Virus'. :)

When did it bcome a sexually transmitted disease? Who the hell gave it to UIllyana then? Oh Colossus is gonna be sooooo upset!

[Erkoban]

I'm not excited.

I abhor the legions of drones that have crawled out of the woodworks to proclaim that Brubaker's run is pure gold. It's so pointless and they're so dellusional.

This is Marvel anno 2006, short-term thinking, name-driven editorial policies, and favoritism.

Why should I be excited about Brubaker coming to Uncanny?

I don't read Deadly Genesis, and his Uncanny will follow that mini-series, I don't care for that formula.
I don't think he'll do great things, because editors won't allow it, or will tamper with it mid-storyline.
I remember when Milligan was anounced as a writer, people cheered about that too, and look how well that worked out in the end.
Why should I be excited about Brubaker's run when he can be replaced with a newer popular writer when Quesada has found one?

Why get excited about a run when I have yet to see the first issue? If anything getting your hopes up will result in dissapointment, haven't we learned anything about the constant stream of Hype coming from Marvel and the lackluster results?

[Beast]

When did it bcome a sexually transmitted disease? Who the hell gave it to UIllyana then? Oh Colossus is gonna be sooooo upset!
It was intended to be an analogy for HIV/AIDS. At least it wasn't Northstar's 'Fairy Disease' :rolleyes:

[Rollo_Tomasi]

I'm neither excited or not. I'm dropping the book due to editorial, not Mr. Brubaker.

I still think the last two issues of Deadly Genesis have a lot of 'splaining to do to make certain things fit, but it's not an impossible feat.

aren't there 3 issues of Deadly Genesis left?

[Beast]

aren't there 3 issues of Deadly Genesis left?
Two. Issue #4 came out yesterday. :)

[TheWolfOfAsgard]

It was intended to be an analogy for HIV/AIDS. At least it wasn't Northstar's 'Fairy Disease' :rolleyes:



I know that. :p

[PercussionMasta]

I'm really curious what people want in a story. It seems like many people complain about everything. Lobdell sucks, Bendis sucks, Brubaker will probably suck. Where's the fun in that?

[cable guy]

I'm really curious what people want in a story. It seems like many people complain about everything. Lobdell sucks, Bendis sucks, Brubaker will probably suck. Where's the fun in that?

It's just like anything else in life.

Some people love it, some hate it.

[Babylon23]

For me, it's not Brubaker that's turning me off the book, it's Tan. I like Brubaker's writing, and the interviews I've read sound kind of interesting. However, Tan's artwork isn't to my tastes.

[The Shadow]

CAN NOT WAIT.

Brubaker is a fantastic writer and Tan is a decent artist.

[Doom Hammer]

I can't wait for Brubaker's X-Men. He's proven to be a spectacular writer and a perfect fit for Marvel with Books of Doom, Daredevil, and particularly, Captain America.

With Deadly Genesis, he's proven that he knows and loves the characters, and has a great plan for them in his first (hopefully of many) years.

Claremont's the definitive X-writer, a completely respectable porfessional, but with his return to Uncanny, he has in my opinion failed to live up to his former standard of quality. Unlike Frank Miller's amazing returns to Daredevil, Claremont is bogged down in multiple storylines that remain unresolved. The first few arcs were brilliant, but I'm very disappointed with how the story has progressed.

Having said that, Claremont's X-Men is still good. I'm not saying it's bad by any means, and I'm not saying I'd want him off the X-books. But given the alternative of Brubaker, who could breathe some fresh life into the characters a la Grant Morrison, I'll take Brubaker.

I'm younger than a lot of the posters here, I didn't read Claremont in his glory days. I don't have a romanticized image of him in my mind. I see him as a very good writer who wrote a historic run followed by a decent run.

Morrison is to me as Claremont is to some of the older posters; his X-Men was pretty much the first I've read, and will always be among my favorites. I see Brubaker as a writer similar to Morrison in terms of ability and creativity, though I expect he'll bring his own amazing ideas and stories to the table.

[Joe Rice]

Yeah, Tan is the big "iffy" to me now. Brubaker knocked Daredevil out of the damn park, so my confidence in him is restored.

[Vicious X Assassin]

My opinion on Brubaker on Uncanny is not really made up yet, currently reading Deadly Genesis and honestly cant say whether Id like him writing a main X-Men book; but Ill probably at least give the book a chance.

The art, Im partially liking and partially not (but thats likely to change once I see more of the upcoming art on the title).

The cast of characters, the only ones Im excited for are Nightcrawler and Warpath.

So, basically my opinion is not made up yet, but Ill more than likely give the book a chance at least.

[PercussionMasta]

I don't know, I'm really holding out. I don't think it will take much to top Claremont's sub-par run (did ANYONE like that lame-ass story in the Savage Land?), but I'm not sure how I feel about Deadly Genesis at this point. For all the supposedly "shock" moments, I'm not really shocked and it doesn't feel like much is going on. The story is moving so slow, and characters that die never stay dead anyways, so I just need to wait around until it's retconned. It may also be that the ending of Deadly Genesis #4 was ruined for me by Marvel's own monthly solicits.

I'm hoping Brubaker can do some good stuff, but lately it seems like no one can take the X-Men anywhere amazing. I don't think Morrison's coming back anytime soon...

[fishtaco]

I don't know, I'm really holding out. I don't think it will take much to top Claremont's sub-par run (did ANYONE like that lame-ass story in the Savage Land?), but I'm not sure how I feel about Deadly Genesis at this point. For all the supposedly "shock" moments, I'm not really shocked and it doesn't feel like much is going on. The story is moving so slow, and characters that die never stay dead anyways, so I just need to wait around until it's retconned. It may also be that the ending of Deadly Genesis #4 was ruined for me by Marvel's own monthly solicits.

I'm hoping Brubaker can do some good stuff, but lately it seems like no one can take the X-Men anywhere amazing. I don't think Morrison's coming back anytime soon...I liked that Savage Land story. I always like the Savage Land.

[LordAllMighty]

Morrison is to me as Claremont is to some of the older posters; his X-Men was pretty much the first I've read, and will always be among my favorites. I see Brubaker as a writer similar to Morrison in terms of ability and creativity, though I expect he'll bring his own amazing ideas and stories to the table.

See, this just makes me feel old. :(

I don't really like the line up but I'm in the wait and see department .

[Marty4Magik]

NOT excited at all.

In fact, I will be dropping Uncanny, and I have all Uncanny issues (up until the DPS in Masterworks), so it wasn't easy.

It has NOTHING to do with Brubaker actually, it's just that I don't like Marvel's direction with the X-books (I am BORED with ALL the Decimation mini's....Normally, I read all my new comics in one day, now I still have some issues from last month...I just don't care anymore).
Haven't liked it for some time now, and I finally decided enough is enough, and vote with my wallet.

I drop ALL Marvel titles, except the ones written by CC and PAD.

[DHX]

in answer to the question below:

did ANYONE like that lame-ass story in the Savage Land?

ME. :)

[Frank]

I`m not excited.

However I welcome it because Brubaker is the sort-of no non-sens solid writer that was needed in the X-Men World. Milligan seemed not knowing what to do and CC has been lost outthere for a while(fixation on certain characters, pointless storylines, etc...). I like the fact that Brubaker is not a high concept guy but he`s usualy "the man with the plan". Meaning he`s damn competent; he knows what he`s doing. So you won`t be seeing a character appearing with tentacles for arms in there and from what I heard he would be playing in the usual X-Men sandbox of concepts. Just good old fashion writing.

[david r]

I was not really excited at first. Infact annoyed at the loss of Claremont, but it was made apparent that his contract was up and this was all he was going to do anyway, so I was cool with it.


Chris Claremont has since stated he had plans for Uncanny X-Men through #475, all the way up to #500. His contract indeed was up this June, but he was apparently far from over.

Claremont was removed from UXM against his wishes. Marvel really doesn't care much for what he has done for the X-Men. It's a case of "What have you done for me lately?" Sure, they will give him a mini-series or a pet project there. But I think CC is off the core books, this time for good.

For all those expecting some kind of mind-blowing run by Ed Brubaker, just remember this. Brubaker will be working in the most editorially-opressive office at Marvel. With men who openly admit they never read comics and don't know the X-Men that well. And they've been known to time and again nix ideas and plotlines, sometimes after they've already begun. Brubaker will be severely limited in what he can accomplish on X-Men because that is the nature of the beast now.

[DDM]

Chris Claremont has since stated he had plans for Uncanny X-Men through #475, all the way up to #500. His contract indeed was up this June, but he was apparently far from over.

Claremont was removed from UXM against his wishes. Marvel really doesn't care much for what he has done for the X-Men. It's a case of "What have you done for me lately?" Sure, they will give him a mini-series or a pet project there. But I think CC is off the core books, this time for good.

For all those expecting some kind of mind-blowing run by Ed Brubaker, just remember this. Brubaker will be working in the most editorially-opressive office at Marvel. With men who openly admit they never read comics and don't know the X-Men that well. And they've been known to time and again nix ideas and plotlines, sometimes after they've already begun. Brubaker will be severely limited in what he can accomplish on X-Men because that is the nature of the beast now.


You are correct. The ignorant editors have no idea what they're doing because they lack the history behind the very characters & stories they are editing. I expect Brubaker's stories to be drastically altered out of the editors' blind ignorance & sychophant behavior to Joe Quesada.

The irony is Chris Claremont laid the groundwork for the X-Men franchise because the editors he worked with had basically a free reign to do anything with the book because it was a low selling title. When it turned into a franchise years later, the editors became more domineering & did not allow the book to take chances with new ideas.

[Twigglet]

I can't wait for this run.

And I feel the editors at Marvel, a lot of you complaining are fans who apparently like Claremonts current run, so they havn't exactly done much wrong have they?

It's a hard job being editor, but at the end of the day, I'm sure if they nix a storyline it's because ultimatly, they don't think it will do well.

[lament]

I'm not excited about Brubakers run at all. I don't enjoy what I've seen of his work, and I'm not impressed with the interviews I've read. I've already decided to drop the book from my list when he takes over.

[Marty4Magik]

I can't wait for this run.

And I feel the editors at Marvel, a lot of you complaining are fans who apparently like Claremonts current run, so they havn't exactly done much wrong have they?

It's a hard job being editor, but at the end of the day, I'm sure if they nix a storyline it's because ultimatly, they don't think it will do well.

It's not just a story they nix.
They alter text as well. And it is not just CC.
Nunzio DeFilippis mentioned that in an issue of Academy X, he had a character say "No' and the editor just changed it into 'Yes' (or vice versa) and he didn't know it untill it was printed.
In HOM, Bendis had a panel in which someone was talking to Peter Rasputin, and mentioned his name in the wordballooon....and the editor edited into "Pietro"....

When you have editors who have never read ANY comic in their entire life as an editor you get such stupid 'mistakes'...

[Twigglet]

It's not just a story they nix.
They alter text as well. And it is not just CC.
Nunzio DeFilippis mentioned that in an issue of Academy X, he had a character say "No' and the editor just changed it into 'Yes' (or vice versa) and he didn't know it untill it was printed.
In HOM, Bendis had a panel in which someone was talking to Peter Rasputin, and mentioned his name in the wordballooon....and the editor edited into "Pietro"....

When you have editors who have never read ANY comic in their entire life as an editor you get such stupid 'mistakes'...


Where was that Bendis thing said?

And I don't mind small mistakes like that. Seems with 60/70 comics published a month a few mistakes are acceptable, people aren't perfect.

[Erkoban]

ooooh, as for ethical treatment of your workers...

Marvel once again failed to inform the writer that they were looking for a replacement. Claremont just stated that he hadn't heard about Brubaker getting his job a couple of months ago in October, when he was still planning and plotting his stories.

Neither did Bachalo by the way.

I call that a remarkably vile way to treat your employees. You could at least inform them when you start looking, that way the current writer has a deadline he can meet, he knows that his income is going to change, and he knows what stories to change and move forward.

but of course this is Marvel under Quesada, ethical isn't a word I would use to describe Quesada.

[DHX]

i'm afraid to commit to uncanny when claremont leaves and it has nothing to do with brubaker... its just marvel has a track record for neutering writers on the x titles so it becomes harder to comit to this stuff

[Twigglet]

ooooh, as for ethical treatment of your workers...

Marvel once again failed to inform the writer that they were looking for a replacement. Claremont just stated that he hadn't heard about Brubaker getting his job a couple of months ago in October, when he was still planning and plotting his stories.

Neither did Bachalo by the way.

I call that a remarkably vile way to treat your employees. You could at least inform them when you start looking, that way the current writer has a deadline he can meet, he knows that his income is going to change, and he knows what stories to change and move forward.

but of course this is Marvel under Quesada, ethical isn't a word I would use to describe Quesada.

October to July is an awfully long time.

I mean we're still about 5 months away..... I'd say thats a very fair ammount of time...

[xmanson]

Alex? Meh.

Lorna? Meh.

Warpath looking liking and angry Logan holding knifes? Double meh.

I won't be reading it because I found a perfect jumping off point from the main titles. No more Uncanny, nor X-men and even less the pile of trash that is Astonishing.

Maybe , if I feel like, I'll buy the trades some day.

I'll keep reading some of the spin offs and other Marvel titles, but I'm done with the core books for now.

Well, I hope it's a great run and those who read enjoy it.

[fishtaco]

David R and DDM both hit the nail right on the head. X-Men has sold out. It's popularity is the source of it's plight. The damage is carried about by the ignorant editors.

[Doom Hammer]

First of all, Claremont has said since pretty much the beginning of his run that his maxi-arc would be concluded around issue #475. And guess what? That's where he gets to end it. Anything about him being cut off is utter crap. He gets to tell his story, just as he planned it from the beginning.

And I don't understand the bit about the editors. Their detractors say they're blithering idiots who don't do their jobs at some times, and at others, suggest they are tyrannical Nazis who restrict the creative freedom of the writers. So which is it? Do they not do their jobs at all, or do their jobs too thoroughly?

And I don't know about the fear of new directions...sure, Morrison is being erased from the X-comics, but for about two years he took the books into wildly new directions. And I'm not sure where these contradictory arguments are being cooked up...fishtaco, you prefer Claremont to Morrison, right? If I recall correctly (and I may be mistaken), you're not a big Morrison fan at all, yes? So why does it matter to you if the editors want to lock the X-Men into their same-old world of Chris Claremont in his glory days, as opposed to the brand-new world Morrison made for them?

Anyway, Brubaker is an amazing writer, and any book would benefit from his influence. I absolutely can't wait for his X-Men; I'm sure it'll be as amazing and true-to-character as his Cap, his Daredevil, and his Doom.

[DHX]

First of all, Claremont has said since pretty much the beginning of his run that his maxi-arc would be concluded around issue #475. And guess what? That's where he gets to end it. Anything about him being cut off is utter crap. He gets to tell his story, just as he planned it from the beginning.

And I don't understand the bit about the editors. Their detractors say they're blithering idiots who don't do their jobs at some times, and at others, suggest they are tyrannical Nazis who restrict the creative freedom of the writers. So which is it? Do they not do their jobs at all, or do their jobs too thoroughly?

And I don't know about the fear of new directions...sure, Morrison is being erased from the X-comics, but for about two years he took the books into wildly new directions. And I'm not sure where these contradictory arguments are being cooked up...fishtaco, you prefer Claremont to Morrison, right? If I recall correctly (and I may be mistaken), you're not a big Morrison fan at all, yes? So why does it matter to you if the editors want to lock the X-Men into their same-old world of Chris Claremont in his glory days, as opposed to the brand-new world Morrison made for them?

Anyway, Brubaker is an amazing writer, and any book would benefit from his influence. I absolutely can't wait for his X-Men; I'm sure it'll be as amazing and true-to-character as his Cap, his Daredevil, and his Doom.

i'm not touching this post with a barge pole

[Doom Hammer]

i'm not touching this post with a barge pole

Are you certain? I'm sure I'd be very receptive... :D

I can only say so many times how much I like and respect Claremont. But at the same time, I'm excited for the new direction Brubaker would supply, and you can't tell me you're not excited for his twelve issue arc of individual issues. That'll make a great HC, too...

I'm glad CC has NEx, I'm glad he'll be getting other books, too. But lately, his stuff has been not my thing. Not because it's horrible, just because it's not my thing. I wouldn't speak against him, or discourage people from buying his books. I'm sure it's great for others, but me? Not so much. I'm way more excited for the prospect of Brubaker, who I've loved since the beginning of his multiple runs at Marvel.

[DHX]

Honestly through i cant afford to get invested with uncanny it was hard enough to get involved when claremont came back as i was so wary of marvel and i love Claremont. the problem is there is so much evidence to support editorial mandate screwing up i'm afraid that they'll screw with brubakers run i still remember the kelly/seagle debacle( why do you think those two havent set foot at marvel since?)

[fishtaco]

fishtaco, you prefer Claremont to Morrison, right? If I recall correctly (and I may be mistaken), you're not a big Morrison fan at all, yes? So why does it matter to you if the editors want to lock the X-Men into their same-old world of Chris Claremont in his glory days, as opposed to the brand-new world Morrison made for them?.Well, I certainly prefer Claremont to Morrison, but I still like Morrison. There are things about his runs that I liked, and some I disliked. I liked his attitude about taking the X-Men in a direction. However, I didn't really like the direction he chose. I think that the X-Men becoming more than just a comic book has ruined it. Because of the explosion of popularity, new readers come in. And with the movies, a legion of new readers come in. Bob Harras wrongly concluded that the status quo of the X-universe has to be more genuine. In other words, Magneto needs to be a villain, the X-Men need to be based at the mansion, under the tutelage of Professor Xavier, who needs to be back in his wheelchair, etc etc etc. Bob Harras destroyed all the progression that was made throughout the 70's and 80's. The editors cater too much towards the new fans. They seem to think that fans are stupid because they might get confused when they pick up an X-men comic book for the first time and see the X-Men in Australia, or Xavier walking, or Magneto teaching the students. There is no such thing as a "same-old world" in Claremont's X-Men. Claremont took the X-Men at the mansion concept as far as it could go. It was a great concept, that being a bunch of students with an X-tra power being taught how to use their powers to fight the forces of evil under the tutelage under a crippled man in a wheel chair. Really, it was. Stan Lee created it. Roy Thomas continued it. Chris Claremont continued it for 13 years while on the book until he decided it was time to move on. The concept was played for 24 years. Don't you think it's time for the X-Men to quit crying and hiding in their little mansion and get out and start kicking ass? You have to admit, Xavier is a heck of a lot more interesting when he can walk. He actually goes on missions and leads the team well. He can be boring when he just stays at the mansion and tells the X-Men what to do through their psychic rapport. If you take a look at Milligan's run, almost all of the stories take place at the mansion, and that's one of the reasons why it's a bad run. The X-Men can't do much to fight for their dream by just staying at the mansion and having sex issues. The X-Men need to leave the mansion and start travelling as nomads, or something. I can already see that under Whedon and the current editorial regime, and possibly under Brubaker that all the progression that Claremont, Simonson, and other fantastic writers wrote about pertaining to the characters and the status quo are/will be annihilated, all because the editors think that the fans are stupid. If I were a new reader and I picked up an issue of X-Men after seeing the movie, and I saw that Xavier was walking, I would be a little confused at first but then I would understand it pretty fast. OR, they can add in a scene in X3 where Xavier learns to walk. In fact, they should do that. As much as I liked the movies, I think that they are ruining the comics.

Still, Grant Morrison did some good stuff. I liked a lot of his run. Some stuff, I didn't like (such as killing off Risque off panel :( )

[DDM]

Well, I certainly prefer Claremont to Morrison, but I still like Morrison. There are things about his runs that I liked, and some I disliked. I liked his attitude about taking the X-Men in a direction. However, I didn't really like the direction he chose. I think that the X-Men becoming more than just a comic book has ruined it. Because of the explosion of popularity, new readers come in. And with the movies, a legion of new readers come in. Bob Harras wrongly concluded that the status quo of the X-universe has to be more genuine. In other words, Magneto needs to be a villain, the X-Men need to be based at the mansion, under the tutelage of Professor Xavier, who needs to be back in his wheelchair, etc etc etc. Bob Harras destroyed all the progression that was made throughout the 70's and 80's. The editors cater too much towards the new fans. They seem to think that fans are stupid because they might get confused when they pick up an X-men comic book for the first time and see the X-Men in Australia, or Xavier walking, or Magneto teaching the students. There is no such thing as a "same-old world" in Claremont's X-Men. Claremont took the X-Men at the mansion concept as far as it could go. It was a great concept, that being a bunch of students with an X-tra power being taught how to use their powers to fight the forces of evil under the tutelage under a crippled man in a wheel chair. Really, it was. Stan Lee created it. Roy Thomas continued it. Chris Claremont continued it for 13 years while on the book until he decided it was time to move on. The concept was played for 24 years. Don't you think it's time for the X-Men to quit crying and hiding in their little mansion and get out and start kicking ass? You have to admit, Xavier is a heck of a lot more interesting when he can walk. He actually goes on missions and leads the team well. He can be boring when he just stays at the mansion and tells the X-Men what to do through their psychic rapport. If you take a look at Milligan's run, almost all of the stories take place at the mansion, and that's one of the reasons why it's a bad run. The X-Men can't do much to fight for their dream by just staying at the mansion and having sex issues. The X-Men need to leave the mansion and start travelling as nomads, or something. I can already see that under Whedon and the current editorial regime, and possibly under Brubaker that all the progression that Claremont, Simonson, and other fantastic writers wrote about pertaining to the characters and the status quo are/will be annihilated, all because the editors think that the fans are stupid. If I were a new reader and I picked up an issue of X-Men after seeing the movie, and I saw that Xavier was walking, I would be a little confused at first but then I would understand it pretty fast. OR, they can add in a scene in X3 where Xavier learns to walk. In fact, they should do that. As much as I liked the movies, I think that they are ruining the comics.

Still, Grant Morrison did some good stuff. I liked a lot of his run. Some stuff, I didn't like (such as killing off Risque off panel :( )


The main reason Chris Claremont had the X-Men leave Xavier's mansion is because X-Factor--then the original X-Men--fulfilled that role. Therefore, he had the X-Men believed to be dead & living in the Australian Outback.

However, with 3 different X-Men books, the mansion seems to be bloated. I believe it requires at least one team to leave the mansion permanently or until the X-titles are cut back to two books...

[fishtaco]

The main reason Chris Claremont had the X-Men leave Xavier's mansion is because X-Factor--then the original X-Men--fulfilled that role. Therefore, he had the X-Men believed to be dead & living in the Australian Outback.

However, with 3 different X-Men books, the mansion seems to be bloated. I believe it requires at least one team to leave the mansion permanently or until the X-titles are cut back to two books...He had it destroyed by Sinister in Uncanny X-Men 243. X-Factor and the New Mutants used the underground complex, but I doubt they would have if it weren't for Harras.

[Neolucifer]

However, with 3 different X-Men books, the mansion seems to be bloated. I believe it requires at least one team to leave the mansion permanently or until the X-titles are cut back to two books...


I agree that at least one team must be constantly out , or they should take turns (thought i prefer the first idea) . Thats why i loved the premise of Xtreme Xmen so much ... a group leaving the mansion and living the dream their own way .

Otherwise you get the sheer idiocy of each team dealing with threats inside the mansion without running into each others ... or some of the book featuring members from another team , or even another team becoming the star of the other core books .


Gladly thats what Brubaker will be going for , a nice trip in space and outside of the mansion, well at least for the moment .

[DHX]

the thing is how long will it be before marvel policy demands that all xmen must work out of the mansion like they did with the reload?

[Neolucifer]

i dont believe that will happen . There will probably always be one team remaining at the mansion , or whatever headquarters they might have someday in the future .

The students present there , would be a reason enough .

[Bishop_Proudstar]

ooooh, as for ethical treatment of your workers...

Marvel once again failed to inform the writer that they were looking for a replacement. Claremont just stated that he hadn't heard about Brubaker getting his job a couple of months ago in October, when he was still planning and plotting his stories.

Neither did Bachalo by the way.

I call that a remarkably vile way to treat your employees. You could at least inform them when you start looking, that way the current writer has a deadline he can meet, he knows that his income is going to change, and he knows what stories to change and move forward.

but of course this is Marvel under Quesada, ethical isn't a word I would use to describe Quesada.


Well the 90's guys at the company seem a bit "whimsical" like most fanboys...

What's the use of criticizing the internet boardmongers only to buy into their cries to replace Claremont?

No Bogan?

10 years from now CC will still be blamed for the "dangling plotline of Bogan & The Hellfire Club"

Did I think that CC would remain on X-Men for 2 more years? No.

At least give CC 6-12 more months to wrap-up The Hellfire Club thing.

Then move Storm. Then hire Brubaker.

They cannot afford to keep re-starting no matter who they have on board.

[DHX]

the thing you are forgetting is that its happened every single time they get a team out of the manshion doing stuff like being on the road or in space and then bam! they're all dragged back to the mansion... its circular that way

[Bishop_Proudstar]

the thing you are forgetting is that its happened every single time they get a team out of the manshion doing stuff like being on the road or in space and then bam! they're all dragged back to the mansion... its circular that way

It seems that how long teams remain at the mansion during an issue depends on how each book is written:

Astonish X: Drama, Character-driven stories, mystery, interplay.
More like The Fantastic Four + Hardy Boys + Buffy (Kitty).

X-Men: All-out tough-guy action and adventure. "Strike-force mentality"
(Cable + Weapon X + Rogue and Iceman)

Uncanny: A mixture of both of the others with more space adventure and longer archs away from Xavier's and the students.

[Frank]

There is no such thing as a "same-old world" in Claremont's X-Men

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[fishtaco]

There is no such thing as a "same-old world" in Claremont's X-Men

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!No, there really isn't. Claremont decided to expand and create a whole new world for the X-Men when Xavier was supposed to die, Magneto and Gateway the leaders, and when the mansion was destroyed. That didn't go well with Harras and the other incompetants. They decided that it's time to go back to square one.

I just realized that it isn't just Claremont. The Marvel editors will betray anybody who isn't living up to their expectations. When the fans start saying that Bendis or Brubaker or Miller or whoever are old timers, the sales will slighly drop. When the sales drop, the editors just kick the people off the books, disregarding all the success in sales that these same people gave them. What writers bring as a creator means nothing to them. I know it's cynical and I'm sorry, but they don't care about the quality of the stories. It's just the money. Brubaker's run will be messed around with. Carey's run will be messed around with. If the rumors that AOA Sabretooth will die because we already have a Sabretooth in X-Men are true, then Bedard's run is going to be messed with. All three of Claremont's runs were messed with. Louise Simonson's run was messed with. Claremont's Excalibur was messed with. Larry Hama's Wolverine run was messed around with. PAD's X-Factor was messed around with. Claremont's X-Treme X-Men was messed with. Whatever is currently the best seller is the ruler of the rest of the MU. The editors don't care if they f*ck up other writers' runs in order to take the one popular book and try to increase sales on it, and please the writer so he or she won't leave the book. The editors don't give a flying crap that Claremont had plans for Shadowcat, or Cannonball, or Storm. Whedon, Liefeld, and Hudlin wanted the characters, and so the editors took them and gave them to incompetant writers who are all the rage today, but will be nobodys tomorrow.

Bendis may be all the rage now, but in a couple of years when fans start calling Bendis an old-timer, Marvel is just going to throw him out with the trash that they think he is just because his books aren't selling as well as they used to be. Not that I like Bendis, but he's a good example of someone who brings good sales but will be betrayed by his employers the moment there is a little slip.

[Marty4Magik]

Amen!

or

Sad but true.... :(

[Titan76]

You know Fishtaco I have to agree with you. Right now Bendis is the man at Marvel but when Quesada is no longer EIC, that may change because the new EIC might have his own golden boy he wants to be number 1. Imo there shouldn't be no number 1, only writers telling their stories for the book they are doing and if the sales are high they should be there for as long as they want and when they leave the editors shouldn't start thinking of what to retcon the writer's run.

[Neolucifer]

True or not , what a sad vision of the future ...
Anyway , of course everyone still in the industry after many years will be called an "old timer" , and people will grow bored of him ...
Question is , how will they leave it ? Wich panache , right before their falling really start ?
Or clinging at all cost to the tree , at the risk of being the mere shadow of your former glorious self ?

Frankly there was a time , where i was wondering , why CC doesnt just quit ? He no longer got his touch , or people got weary of him . I was still enjoying his writing mind you , as a bad CC is still better than a few writers , but i still didnt want him to be badly remembered .

Now of course , i'm glad he remained there , since he is out of his (imo) slump .

[Erkoban]

in a couple of years we'll look back at this age and call it for what it is. Much as we currently do with the nineties, we look back and see the trends and then critisize the trend, even though we all followed it back then.

This age will be defined by ego-driven comics.

It's not the actual product that matters, it's the name attached to it that matters.

[Jake V]

in a couple of years we'll look back at this age and call it for what it is. Much as we currently do with the nineties, we look back and see the trends and then critisize the trend, even though we all followed it back then.

This age will be defined by ego-driven comics.

It's not the actual product that matters, it's the name attached to it that matters.
So... it's just like any other kind of media? Yeah, what a horrible thing.

[david r]

Fishtaco basically sums up Marvel Comics. They don't treat their creative staff well. Just look at how they treated Jack Kirby in the late 1960s to see the origins of their despicable ways. Kirby could almost be called the "Walt Disney" of Marvel, having a major role in creating a gigantic portion of the Marvel Universe and the characters inhabitating it.

Yet Marvel felt no trouble at all treating him as secondary by the late 1960s. Stan Lee himself went around saying how "he created everything." And when Jack's contract was up in 1970, Marvel's new offer to him was pathetic. If Marvel could treat one of their Founding Fathers is such a manner, they will have no trouble treating the current writers the same way once they are "expendable."

[Citizen V]

Personally..im not excited for anything done on Uncanny anymore.CC is the only thing that gives the book credibility anymore,im sure newer fans dont know the difference.

CC is the only thing that makes the X-Men..the X-Men.

[Brian Cronin]

Play nice.

Two of you got temp bans for not.

Don't make it three.

-Brian

[Carl Orr]

CC is the only thing that makes the X-Men..the X-Men.

The X-Men have become far greater than any 1 creator over the years, as evidenced by all the various monthly X projects and 3 core X-Men titles. And most of them are not very good reads, yet they still sell like mad.